Can we all appreciate how well the authors are handling Bihwan's character development here? It's only natural for his development to be incremental. Temporally it hasn't been that long since he was released from the seal so expecting him to adapt and change in that short time span is absurd. BUT after the dream sequence arc he has started to see Minchan for himself. To me his constant slip ups when calling his name seem more like he's struggling to kick a bad habit and constantly relapsing than him actually dismissing Minchan as a person. I'm not saying that he got over Seoho though, I'm saying that he's starting to recognise that they're different people. I love Minchan and understand his frustration, but also recognise that good character development takes time, effort, and patience to be believable. It wouldn't be as impactful and satisfying if it were instantaneous in my opinion.
100% agreed. This is one of the better manhwas I've read in a while.
Will the entirety of S2 have Kimoto as the MC? If so I would love that. I've never seen a BL do that, it would be really interesting narratively.
Who is kimoto?
The brown haired guy on the cover.
Oh thanks
This was crazy good wtf and nowhere near as confusing as people make it sound to be.
Anyway I'd sell my left nut to see Jin bottom, idc with who literally anyone will do (except that incel snake hope he dies).
People asking who the new black-haired character is make me understand how Clark Kent's disguise was effective.
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
because of your comment I realized it
ENLIGHTEN ME PUHLEASE
Isn't he the friend? The sus friend?
Yeah that's him only with a different fit and hairdo.
Righttt and I was wondering why everyone was so confused on who he is
My thoughts, i mean what do people mean who he is? (⊙…⊙ )
Now I'll think twice before cutting my hair short next time
Okay so I'm late to the party here. I scrolled back to see reactions to older chapters and almost everyone was complaining about the side characters' back stories. I can't be the only one who enjoyed them, right? Every single character is treated with so much love and respect like I love Fu Rin as a character, I love how protective Mali is of Yajin, I love how organic Chen and Alex's chemistry is. I'm glad the author put so much care into them so they can dedicate the third season to Xin and Lau and possibly Lian and Wei. This is one of those stories that requires patience and honestly I like how slow burn it's been
I agree i love the side characters in this and theyre a huge draw for me personally. I enjoyed the majority of the backstories but i lwk skim yajin's on rereads, i js feel like they could've paced it a little better. still i did enjoy it overall (the shot of all of the clocks always goes so hard), but i got so worked up into the momentum of lau finding out what yajin hid and then it just randomly jumps to his backstory idk i feel like the author should've placed it earlier in the series to not ruin the pacing of that sequence. i was one of the comments who was complaining abt chen's backstory back then but now looking at it i honestly find it rly sweet. fu rin's backstory is a straight up banger and had some lines that rly stuck with me, same with suna's.
honestly back then it was just the pain of having not seen xin in like 4 months that rly set in lmao. updates were every 10 days too and not on a consistent schedule sometimes it was rough out here┗( T﹏T )┛ not to mention none of the illegal sites had raws either it was downright painful having to wait for my pookie bear's reappearance also i think the majority of the commenters back then would disagree with what they said back then. i remember one comment saying "can we PLEASE get back to lau and xin" and then a few months later when the "twist" happened they said "i lwk take it back..." lmfao
im rly hyped for s3 as well, and im especially curious abt lian and wei's backstories considering whats been hinted at before. they were introduced as part of the "main four" early on, but their involvement kinda fizzled out over the course of the story until now. hopefully we'll get to see them more now. 2 heroes and 2 villains as the main four, super excited to see what the author can do w that dynamic.
Oh yeah, I totally get it! I had the privilege of binge-reading this, so I didn’t have to excruciatingly wait for the sparse updates so that makes sense, haha. I wasn’t judging readers, more so just surprised at the lack of engagement with any side characters except for Miu and Lian (for obvious reasons).
I admit, some of the flashbacks gave me whiplash too—especially during confrontations, like when Fu Rin tries to save Suna, or when Lau confronts Yajin as you said. But I ended up being so engrossed in them that I almost forgot what was happening in the main timeline. It took me a while to get used to the constant back-and-forth between past and present, and honestly, I feel like it works most of the time, but it does break immersion when it interrupts tense moments.
Can I just say how fun it’s been reading the comment section though? Especially your comments. I love how invested you are in the story. It’s been so fun reading your theories, timelines, and even fanfiction, lol. You’ve made the story even more enjoyable for me, and I’m sure for many other readers too, so thank you!
Yeah tbf I think the lack of engagement with any side charas was cuz there was like 4 ppl reading it here at the time if u go on other manga sites (that i daren’t say the name of or else mangago will smite me down) ppl engage a bit more w them (but it was mostly hating on suna tbh).
Also I was reading ur comment abt this on ur profile (yes i stalk ppls profiles don’t ask) and I agree the first few times I read it I was willing to excuse the weird transitions because I was locked in on all of the info they were giving us but the more I reread it, it becomes glaringly obvious that the author needs better transitions between the present and past. Most of the time they have good transitions, where the lore/flashbacks start playing (ie the transition to Lau and xins childhood, absolute cinema) but the yajin one lwk just pissed me off. Like I audibly sighed when I saw ts
I don’t mind the overexposition at the beginning and throughout because whenever I reread it I find new details that further the plot (like the stick Lian uses to eat fruit being the iron awl that was stolen from yajin’s family). The plot and the reasons why the lore is there became much clearer on a reread for me since I didn’t get all of it the first time around. But take my opinion with a grain of salt cuz I just love lore too much
Also abt ur last point, I agree that the authors really heavy handed with characterization, which works well sometimes but other times it can also be… something. like yeah the fu rin one made it especially obvious. But also to counteract ur point abt the author thinking their readers are stupid, they lwk are tho like ive gotten into beef with ppl on a diff site abt ppl calling fu Rin and suna Mary sue’s when they’re not so yeah manhwa readers ARE pretty stupid but it doesn’t excuse the heavy handed storytelling. Im a bit conflicted though because I think one of the strengths of this manhwa is that it’s not afraid to be heavy handed. Idk I feel like too many stories either give readers too much info or too little info but this story gives just enough imo. It doesn’t try to baby the audience when it comes to the mystery but it does baby us when it comes to characterization especially with side characters. I have a love hate relationship with the way this author does storytelling (like a 80:20 love hate ratio so ig I love it much more)
Fanfic? What fanfic? that was literally what happens next /j. Anyways someone else read it omfg, I’m lwk embarrassed even if I wrote it for the bit I’m glad my comments made this more enjoyable for u and I like to think they helped other ppl too lol. I’ve lwk written more abt this manhwa than i have in all of my English classes combined so at least someone gained something out of it LOL This manhwa means a lot to me, to the point where I got a job just to buy the officials legally I love this story despite its flaws so it’s nice to talk to someone who can admit its flaws in a nuanced way. A real rarity these days in manhwa fandoms tbh Also I was browsing ur profile and I love the way u write. Like u could totally become a professional reviewer like swiftologist or someone like that u have rly good vocabulary
Definitely agree that the way the story is layered invites and rewards multiple readings. That’s why I mentioned I’m going to reread this, the mystery is so dense and well crafted I know I'm going to find details I missed the first time (also thank you for pointing out that detail, I completely missed that). The way the author made every other family seem suspicious while keeping the Mings under the radar fooled me lol. I felt so dumb because I actually believed Lian at some point. She was so blatantly unhinged I convinced myself it’d be too obvious if she turned out to be the villain—so I basically gaslit myself into ruling her out until pretty far in the story.
I know I focused a bit on the negatives in my comment, but honestly, I adore how the mystery was structured too. Being stuck in Lau’s head when he’s completely out of the loop and led on a wild goose chase was so disorienting—a challenging perspective to follow but one that works so well for the mystery. One reason I initially disliked the overexposition was that I thought Lau should already know some of that info given his position as guardian, but realizing everyone was keeping things from him gave the exposition a whole new context. That actually made me appreciate it a lot more in hindsight.
Heavily agree with you that the average manhwa reader is just ... slow. I try not to sound like a smartass so I ignore most bad takes but it actually was so frustrating that I made an alt account just to rant about readers lmao. I have a post basically venting and luckily found someone with similar perspectives to vent with and discuss stories. The fact anyone would think Fu Rin and Suna are Mary Sues is mind boggling to me because they might seem perfect at first but they have their flaws and worked so hard to carve out a place for themselves.
Also when it comes to theories I think I'm leaning most toward your theory that Lian isn't actually a villain and just trying to help in the most chaotic convoluted way she can think of ... or at least I hope so. Though the stories from Xin and Lau's childhood kinda alluded to a grim prospect but one can only hope. I can't for the life of me think of how that will play out though so I'm excited for S3.
Aw, it's kinda embarrassing that you read through my comments, I can be such a hater sometimes, lol. Also I usually write down my thoughts as I'm reading a story then delete everything to write something semi-coherent once it's is completed so take my comments on-ongoing stories with a grain of salt. I'm sure my final review will be much more positive since the author has already proven their talent even if some aspects are better handled than others. I also agree that many authors give too much or too little at times. Your reply has actually made me appreciate the story even more now. This is why I love discussing stories with informed readers. Usually people either hate something with a passion and go insane if you dare criticise their favourites so it's been so refreshing hearing your takes!
There's something so amusing to me about their face-off in ch31. They're like a matador and an angry horny blind bull
How many accidents can a man get into in his lifetime?? Author needs to leave Woo Won alone, the guy has suffered enough. Also Seo-an needs to stop being such a control freak.
For anyone confused let me clear this up once and for all. In chapter 1 p.13, the person spoken to when one of the gang members says "yer 18 yerself" is not Mori. It's not clear who it is but they respond that they're working, and Mori hid the fact that he works from everyone except 2 people (as evidenced by ch.3 pages 4-5). An argument could be made that it's a different job, but ch.4, p.3 sounds pretty conclusive to me. He says that he was a "little younger" than 25 at the time so he must've been 24/23, a far cry from 19 if you ask me. Realistically, what 18 year old is leading a gang like that?
On the question of whether this constitutes grooming or not, how do you guys define grooming? It's any act done to gain a child's trust for the purpose of sleeping with said child. He showed Tora preferential treatment for a whole year. Grooming is often depicted as relentless, but in reality it's very covert and insidious. Some small things you'd never pay attention to can be constituted as grooming, especially acts of kindness. As for whether he was planning on sleeping with him from the start or not I don't think that matters. He did it and it wasn't a heat of the moment thing. He took his sweet time buying condoms and all. So what makes his actions different from grooming? Is it intent? What more could he have done to concretely turn this into grooming?
I understand wanting to enjoy this manga, but please don't try denying the facts. Feel free to create your own headcanon by changing their ages, but I'm sure the mangaka intended the story to be this way. I say that because there's precedent (see Nirameba Koi vol.1, ch.6). I enjoy a few things about this manga, especially the biker gang concept, but let's be honest with ourselves. I respect the people who admit they change the details in their minds more than those frantically trying to deny the facts.
You're right about the grooming requiring intent but it also entails manipulation and exploitation. I don't think there was intent, in the way that you think, and I definitely don't think there was manipulation. Tetsuya had condoms because he was the leader of a bike gang, single, and in his early 20s (he likely gets it all the time, I doubt any other person in that position wouldn't have condoms). Also he didn't have lube, he had to use olive oil - he didn't plan to sleep with him then. I think it happened because of the fight beforehand and the rising tension within the gang, making Tora step back a bit (this is where I think Tetsuya started realizing his feelings).
Additionally Tetsuya was 23-24 (someone calculated it), he too was a kid, despite the arbitrary 18-20 year old age of adulthood. Humans don't have fully mature noggins until they are 25. BUT he was older by a decent enough number of years and a highschooler 16-17 years and that puts the situation on him, especially since Tora was already reeling with his feelings about his brother, the gang, and his budding love of Tetsuya.
Now in terms of intent. I really don't think it was there. It struck me in the beginning that Tetsuya saw Tora as a smart ass kid who made the gang a little more fun (Tetsuya even mentioned that he made it less boring). Then a kid who railed up the leader to ride his best by 1. doing his best on his worst subject and actually succeeding 2. questioning his abilities to ride (this leads to shared adrenaline, respect, and companionship). The threshold likely happened (like I mentioned before) when Tora started pulling back and tensions in the gang at an all time high. Now you may argue that Tetsuya having feelings for him and acting favorably to him would be a definition of intent but I will remind you that Tetsuya actually told Tora that he could not ride with him for a while. So if anything, he actually took a step back.
Finally, this is set in Japan (I am not going to say this is right because that is not how I feel). There was (and I think the thinking is shifting) a belief that high schoolers were essentially adults when it comes to relationship. My highschool Japanese friend was actually dating a working corporate man (which really shocked me) and mentioned that it was actually pretty common. You've also probably noticed all the manga out there with highschoolers and adults in relationships. I'm just putting in this point because I think that explains the seme's relaxed attitude when they had sex. If their coupling was a result of grooming, there would be some element of maliciousness behind it (because grooming is malicious and groomers know they are doing something bad) whether it is visible or not. In this story, that is not the case at all.
Also there are no signs of Tora being groomed: no isolation, possessiveness from seme (in fact possessiveness came from Tora), no gifts, no secrecy between them, I would argue the excessive attention since Tora started the whole riding behind him and it was a shared enjoyment (more like friends), there was no fear, and there was definitely no sexual inappropriateness (not including the actual sex scene - this is an underlying theme before the fact when grooming is present).
I have a sneaking suspicion it's not a coincidence Kei's exes have been trash. When you have no trouble sleeping with a man you're convinced has a girlfriend, that's what you get. It's funny to me that he has trust issues when he's too selfish and doesn't care about hurting others. Dude gets no sympathy from me. He brings it on himself but then distrusts Taiga for being a "liar" because "trauma" when Taiga did nothing wrong. In fact, he's one of the most lovable and radiant tops I've ever seen.
This is called projection. We put above the actual situation a filter based on our experiences distorting the actual image. Kei said he is gay, and ML told him "I am also of your people". The only thing Kei knew is "rumors from gossip magazines" which there are always floating about singles acting as a love couple. He thought "omg are they actually a couple??" when he saw her at the same building and ML said welcome back, he saw them very friendly (he didn't know that they are good friends), he was feeling awkward thinking they might be a couple and this is a strange food outing, but she immediately told him that I like him but we are not an item and he does not show any romantic interest in me. So his misunderstanding lasted for around 2 hours. And the reason he was afraid to commit was because bf1 hide that he was a married bi, bf 2 cheated, bf3 exploited him for money. So he thought he acts like he is liking me, but if regular people can act, an actual actor can do it 1000 times better. I hope I helped
I get that he has trust issues, but he hurt taiga because of his presumptions of him being a chameleon actor not because taiga did anything suspicious. However that isnt my issue with the story, I find it kind of bland that they ended up together without any groveling. Taiga forgave kei immediatly without even a good apology…
You forgot that Taiga started the whole thing as FwB and was not like "I will go slowly and we will start from friends and I will break down your walls and you will trust me and date me". They started as a physical relationship and that is why Kei was thinking"ok he can't have an open relationship due to his job, we have great physical compatibility, and I have fear starting a serious relationship, so i am perfect for him". And when he started catching feelings he was like "bro you going down the same path as before, you are catching feelings for someone that wants a physical bond with no strings attached". Taiga had actual feelings for him from before so he was tender and sweet, but Kei does not know that, so he is like "wait a minute why you are behaving like there is something deeper already there when we know each other for a few days? "
Yeah I get the part where they couldnt build a bond, but kei really hurt taiga after he already knew of their past. But thats the thing with stories that have to end in 6 ch, so I dont blame the aurhor
It's not called projection, it's called interpretation and perspective. Please don't throw psychology jargon at me. To me he looked absolutely positive that the guy was taken but they were so compatible that he didn't care, which is why he looked mortified when he met the actress for the first. That puts his "unlucky" dating history into perspective. Some people are too kind and attract shitty people yes, but Kei was never depicted that way. To me it shows that he might overlook red flags if he's benefiting from the relationship in some way. Yes Taiga's approach wasn't the best, he could've tried being friends first, but he was told by Kei that he was over dating and was only looking for casual hookups so he took the opportunity. Other than that he did absolutely nothing wrong besides being an actor, which makes him a liar in Kei's eyes. Dude went above and beyond to redeem himself and never got much of an apology. I respect your interpretation so please respect mine and don't try to psychoanalyse me.
Ignoring the obvious facts is not interpretation. Kei clearly said "but he told me he was one of us" (chapter 2 ) and when she saw her (at the end of chapter 2) he thought "friend? He means "friend" - as FwB, or she is actually his gf?". Since he is thinking "wait is she also a "friend" or a gf" that means up to there he didn't thought they were actually a couple and he believed the "I am also one of you (gay)". The fact that they live next to each other and they are friendly make him think that they are. You ignored clear dialogue lines to adjust the story to your perspective.
And the extremely funny thing is that you did exactly what Kei did. You extrapolate in your mind a narrative that suit your life experiences and misread the actual story, as Kei did with Taiga
The irony of you accusing me of ignoring dialogue when the dude literally thought "I can't say no to my urges" after considering that the rumors might be true isn't lost on me. It would've taken him 2 seconds to ask and get his answer. Extrapolation is a valid type of character analysis as long as there is evidence from the text. But sure keep psychoanalysing me and as if that wasn't enough now you're making claims about my personal life and lived experiences? Anyway I said what I said. Unlike you I'm going to stay courteous and not make baseless assumptions about you. Have a great day/night.
I agree with you on this. The fact that Kei knew (even if it's rumors) that Taiga was dating Lilia, he went ahead and had sex with Taiga anyways. That's what I also noticed, it's an etiquette to cut off someone if they already have a lover but Kei didn't and that's what made me question his past relationships. Also, idk but the fact that theyre both having sex and have a compatibility yet Kei has the audacity to push Taiga to Lilia is making me think that he's fine doing it even if Taiga's dating the girl.
And, why does Taiga have to focus on Kei's feelings when he treasured Kei all throughout. Kei already knew how affectionate and different Taiga is whenever he's with him but still rejected him and called him liar...
Thank you! Like what kind of guy thinks: "Who goes out to dinner with his girlfriend AND the guy he's sleeping with, does he not understand social cues?" (direct quote) if he doesn't think they're dating? The dude didn't think that social cues involved NOT sleeping with another guy when you have a girlfriend but simply not meeting both of them at the same time. Also thank you for reminding me that he tried suggesting Taiga date Lilia, yeah that was sleazy behaviour.
People saying what Woowon did is a realistic depiction of coping with PTSD are huffing mad copium. Yes you can cope with sex but that doesn't mean you rape your partner. Yes you can unintentionally hurt them but that usually manifests in the form of lashing out at them for no reason, being avoidant, getting angry at the smallest things which can cause emotional exhaustion. People with PTSD won't suddenly start disregarding consent, especially when they were very gentle and accomodating prior. Rape doesn't add complexity to a story, it's an easy shortcut for authors to add angst. One major event that's guaranteed to shock, create tension, cause a rift all while providing an opportunity to draw porn. This doesn't look like an honest exploration of trauma to me.
Let's be honest though we should've seen this coming. The author already relied on rape when Seo-an assaulted Woowon instead of comforting him after he was humiliated by those jerks in that mansion. Now people are excusing Woowon because apparently he wasn't in his right mind, what was Seo-an's excuse? He's the bottom so it's not as bad? This thing has been going downhill for a while now we just refused to acknowledge that because the first season was truly beautifully written. It's hard to accept that a good writer would throw her characters under the bus just for cheap angst but it happens. The first season had its problems but it feels like a completely different author wrote it at this point. The tonal shift is jarring and had little buildup. If they're still in love after all that good for them, doesn't mean this is good writing.
i agree with you on this being a predictable but shitty arc, especially since it was clear from the start that this manhwa wasn’t going to be a short or easy read. it tries to explore complex psychological disorders, but a lot of it feels rushed or just not fully explained, like how seo-an’s panic disorder seems to just disappear, which really isn’t realistic at all. i think a lot of people reading this probably noticed that too.
that said, i do feel like the weight and aftermath of trauma isn’t being acknowledged enough. i’m not saying everyone experiences it the same way, because they don’t, there’s no simple path through it, and it’s never just a checklist of symptoms. it’s messy, painful, and different for everyone. hypersexuality or complete disinterest in sex are both pretty common responses to trauma, and i think the way the author portrayed seo-an and the connection with sex as comfort, especially how woowon spirals deeper into his own confusion and need for control, was meant to reflect that chaos.
yes, it’s rape, and no, it’s not okay. but honestly, nobody in this story is. i completely respect people who feel differently, but i don’t think this portrayal of ptsd is as far-fetched or unrealistic as it might seem at first. it’s uncomfortable, and it should be.
I know how messy and painful trauma can be. I also know that PTSD manifests differently for everyone but I feel like confusion and need for agency could've been portrayed better. The few examples I gave weren't meant as a checklist, just a few responses as possible alternatives to what happened in this chapter. People might struggle with boundaries because of trauma but blatantly raping a partner who repeatedly says "no"? I've never seen that be acknowledged as a trauma response in any credible way. I'm sure there are so many other ways of portraying a character fumbling for control, desperately trying to regain a sense of order through hypersexuality, without rape. Plenty of other ways to show how painful and uncomfortable PTSD can be too. This was the author's choice though and I believe she took the easy route. I know that's what she was trying to accomplish but I still believe it could've been executed much better and more creatively, because in my opinion rape as a plot device is tired and overdone.
I also noticed the way Seo-an's disorder just vanished after he got into a relationship. I might be reading too much into it but that kind of makes me lose faith in the author's grasp on mental illness. I have my reasons for feeling that this story has been on a steady decline other than the rape. Since the second season started it has been one thing after the other: Woowon's father threatens him, Woowon is humiliated by Seo-an's acquaintances, Seo-an assaults him, infantilises him, goes behind his back, disregards him, hides something major from him, then the father goes off the rails, strangles his son, there's a car crash, father dies, Woowon is traumatised, Woowon assaults Seo-an. We never got a chance to breathe or unpack anything, the author keeps piling it on; you're not done processing the last mess before a new disaster strikes. Which makes me think that the rape was less a necessary evil to portray psychological collapse and just another entry in an already exhausting trauma conga line.
I know it might be intentional on the author's part, it might be her way of invoking the emotional exhaustion her characters feel in her readers. To me it just feels exasperating. When will it end? Will any of the characters' harmful coping mechanisms be unpacked? I hope so, but I no longer feel the desire to stick around to find out. I don't think this story should be rainbows and sunshine, far from it, that would be unrealistic, but I also don't think it needs to be this relentless to be angsty and impactful. Nonstop trauma just ruins the pace and undermines the emotional weight for me. Sorry for writing too much, I have nowhere else to express my thoughts on this. Thank you for providing the opportunity and being respectful. I definitely respect your point of view but I'm really not convinced.
no yeah i totally get where you’re coming from and i don’t blame anyone who sees it that way because it’s completely valid. rape and sa have been used way too often as plot devices in media, especially in stuff like this, and it really does take away from the real emotions or intentions behind the story. it’s been done so much and in such a careless or fetishized way that sometimes it’s hard to tell if it’s actually meant to explore something deeper or if it’s just there for shock value or drama. and that’s exhausting to read honestly.
i do want to make it clear that i agree with you. i think the author absolutely could’ve shown woowon’s flaws or his "downfall" in other ways that didn’t involve something so harmful. but yeaahh.. this is just the direction this particular bl is taking. and it’s kinda disappointing, especially when you’ve been really into a manhwa and it suddenly takes this turn. this was one of my favorites too for a while, so seeing it fall apart like this is honestly upsetting. i totally get why some people would drop it, even seasoned readers who've indulged in this heavy genre for years. it’s not even about being sensitive, it’s about being tired of seeing the same trauma used again and again in ways that don’t always feel necessary in any way whatsoever.
but thank you for sharing your thoughts too. i really appreciate discussions like this, even if the topic is heavy, it’s nice to know there are others who care enough to talk about it thoughtfully.