Mozzarella's Topics (540)

While I think it was a twisted way to do it, I think he was trying to get Soutarou to realize why what he was saying was fucked up.

Like Satoi isnt delicate but he shared all his fears and secret with Soutarou and all Soutarou can do is doubt him? Like basically saying "if a pretty boy is nice you'd dump me and date him" like, how shallow.

I wouldn't resort yo Satois methods but Id be pissed. Like 0 trust in me. No faith at all, it like Soutarou wasn't being real he was trying "not to make him mad" while missing the point of a relationship and Satoi was like "well fuck then I treat you like the doll youre trying to be"
I mean he's an idiot. Theyre both idiots.

Where was Soutarou supposed to get the faith?

When his bf told him "No you're not weird" Or "Who cares if people would think I'm weird I want to hang out with you anyway." when Soutarou told him he'll be weird too if they hang out in school.

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/nise_x_koi_boyfriend/bt/951125e03c7fbd66/Vol2_Ch4/pg-4/

Much care.

Or is it when Satoi called him ugly when he dressed up?

Or when Mifune held Satoi as a girl and Satoi stared at him for a long time with a blush on his face. (Great confidence booster there)

Or you know the millions of reasons Satoi gave him about why he was with him? Oh wait, that never happened.

But yes, I should give you all the faith in you for doing absolutely nothing when I needed you to.

Here's what Satoi knows and does nothing. He knows Soutarou gets bullied, does nothing. He knows Soutarou think he's too weird for him, does nothing. He knows that in junior high, a girl faked being in love with him, does nothing. Soutarou has shown you time and time again, he thinks he's not good enough for you but not ONCE and I really mean not ONCE have you tried to talk to him about it. Trust is BUILT NOT HANDED TO YOU. You don't get that from simply being a boyfriend/girlfriend. I would trust my dog better than someone who has NOT ONCE tried to defend or encourage me.

The first thing you did, when Soutarou's anxiety is so bad that he practically has to beg you to stay is to rape him. Or try to rape him. And do you know the kind of damage that he can do with someone like Soutarou? Someone who has already been bullied before and too weak to fight back? Do you?

And when I say "Does nothing" I simply mean talking to him about it. Or even telling him "I know you have your insecurities but just know that I see a different side of you and I love you for it" Just SOMETHING for him to hang on to, SOMETHING so that when times gets real bad he can tell himself, "No Satoi told me this and I should trust him" But where is that??

I think that's exactly the point. Satoi shared all his fears with him, but Sotarou's fear is that Satoi is just with him because he's the only one who knows his fears and as soon as someone else knows, he will be dumped.

For the whole point is, what Satoi 'gives back' is staying with Sotarou, like dating him is a great favor he's doing. Sotarou gives him comfort to his fears, but Satoi doesn't do the same, he things being there is enough, but it is not when Sotarou's biggest fear is that he's just there because he has no other option.

And Sotarou has reasons to believe that: it's happened to him before with that girl. So trust is not something he gives away easily. In fact, it's hard for him to trust. And here comes again the whole argument that being with Sotarou is not enough. Satoi has to do more.

Sotarou has serious anxieties, and it can become an abusive relationship when one person is just doing everything they can to not make the other mad.

This doesn't mean however that Satoi is the villain. With anyone else, maybe just being there would be enough. Satoi is kinda self-absorbed and everything in the relationship is about him, but that's not what Sotarou needs.

As I said above, I don't think Sotarou is in a place for a relationship with someone like Satoi.

Really? It didn't look like he enjoyed it to me. His expressions don't s real pleasure but pain and regret. Like a piece of his soul died.... Like how mine did when I saw that chapter.

For me he looked more like "fuck you old man and just bring it on", you can tell his suffering when he sees Nozomi later, like he's more concerned about how Nozomi would feel to see that because of his trauma.

IDK how to explain - his feelings were that he wasn't enjoying, but the author showed his erection and orgasm too upclose, and I found it really uncomfortable to read. IMO, she could have faded to black the whole rape instead of making a porn out of it It was of bad taste for me.

OFC, that doesn't change the fact that the story is amazing, the end was still perfect, and so was everything else.

I found it of bad taste how the author made a porn out of the rape.

I might have to wait until the rest is translated to get what is going on, but from what I understood, he could have asked his father for the money and walked away from it. So it seemed that it was a matter of pride for him, and his pride was more important than Nozomi's feelings, as if doing something hurtful would be ok as long as he didn't find out. I'm not blaming Yondaime, but the execution of the idea by the author. Again, I might need to see it translated.

OFC, that doesn't change the fact that the story is amazing, the end was still perfect, and so was everything else.

To not ask his father for help was a matter of pride but ahead on the story he gives an in-depth on why he refuses to belong to the yakuza so much and it's probably related to that desition, but the desition to take on the responsabilty with his body later was to protect Nozomi, because Rogi made it clear that he would use him in his tapes instead and had told him about Nozomi's past, so to become the "sacrifice" means he really care about Nozomi, so that's why I wouldn't judge him so much.
I agree though with the point that it was a bit excessive to show the rape scenes too much but well, after having go through Sora o Daite Oyasumi, there're few mangas that can shake me up and/or make me feel ackward nowadays lol

I'm in the same boat as you what's up with the rape fetish, it's lame. I hope the villain does die let's wait and see

So that's something I'll have to wait on ahead to read translated. I agree that I'm peeved with plots where sex is used as a way to hurt a couple, so I'm biased.

I did get bothered by the fetishization of the rape tho. Specially when I compare it to how it was handled by Aiso Tsukashi, that was a really delicate and sensitive romance.

Guys, some people just have rape fetishes. Also, just because they have a rape fetish doesn't mean they like real-life rape. It's fine because it's fiction. People have messed up kinks that are built in them. They're attracted to it, and some can't help it. They might feel guilty about it while others accept it. Having a rape kink is not bad so long you understand it is only something you can fantasize, but know how serious rape is in reality. If you don't like a certain kink, that's your opinion. Don't push it on any authors or readers and try to change what the like to see or create.

Other times, rape is put in a story for dread effect and not for a pleasurable effect. But both are fine. It's just like gore or violent video games, really. Some people like shooting video games and it's fine, they just need to know the difference between the game and reality.

From the latest translated chapter, I don't think it was pride so much as his dad couldn't afford it (and if his dad did pay, it would put their group in a bind). The secretary guy that told him to apologize mentioned something about the possibility of having to borrow money from Rogi

I don't speak for the anon, but for my argument - there is a difference between rape fetish and rape fetishization. No one here is trying to kink shame you, so don't project it.

A rape fetish implies consent on both parts to act on the fetish - a rape PLAY that you might act on with your partner's consent.

Rape fetishization implies the portrayal of an actual rape in a good light, as something where the victim can actually get to feel pleasure. An actual rape is not good and not pleasurable, the victim doesn't not like nor want it. If the victim wants it, it's rape PLAY, or rape fetish.

When it comes to works of fiction, it should be portrayed with responsibility - be it for porn, or for dread effect as you say. I don't mean it can't be portrayed, but that it should be done with responsibility, and not FETISHIZATION, as I explained above.

If you want examples of what I'm talking about, I suggest you go read some works by Harada, Zariya, Ike Reibun, for portrayals of rape in various ways - simply for porn or dread effect as you said, and not all with a happy ending. They portray it in a more responsible light. I don't mean to flame Scarlet Beriko for this, as I said I am yet to read the translated version, but the issue with rape in yaoi remains.

Agree. This is the first time I felt so angry reading a rape scene and that's really surprising because I'm usually neutral when it comes to rape etc. I want to kill Rogi with my bare hands. (╬￣皿￣)凸 While I really love this mangaka, the rape scenes were disturbingly uncomfortable in this one and I got really disappointed. (╯°Д °)╯╧╧

Yeah, I feel you here. I felt uncomfortable because it felt fetishized.

I feel like I could have liked Rogi if it wasn't for the rape plot tho, he could have been a great protagonist of his own yaoi.

Yeah, I've said the same thing to certain other mangas and animes. Even in ads, you'll find a lot of underlying messages that encourage rape culture. I haven't actually read the raws yet, but I've seen a lot of people argue about rape in a manga that put rape there so obviously for a dread effect.

Straying away from this particular case (because I haven't actually read it.) I get confused about mangas like Sekaiichi Hatsukoi (or a lot of other popular yaoi mangas), there's verbal objection in almost every scene, and the seme usually forces himself on the uke and after a while the uke starts to feel good. But nobody argues about rape there. Is that not normalizing rape? This is what confuses me. If that isn't rape, it's hard to tell what is or isn't. There are a lot of aspects that you can't judge with certainty. Verbal consent which I believe is the clearest way to tell if rape is rape still is hard to gauge sometimes, especially if it's BDSM or if the uke looks like he's enjoying it. And then there's the expressions of both parts, which also can't really be gauged with accuracy.

Imo, this is hard to say because Sekaiichi has a really high rating and I've barely heard anyone complain about rape there, but I don't see how it doesn't normalize rape. It's worse when it's less exaggerated versus rape that is exaggerated. If you apply it to real life, it could make people think that when their lover says 'no' it just means you should keep going until they start feeling good. It's subtle scenes like those that really normalize rape.

I don't have too much of a rape fetish, but from the rape hentai I have seen, they make it very clear that it is rape and its usually pretty brutal, and the victim hates it until the end- but the victim physically submits to the pleasure. (The victim is aroused, etc.) Is that bad? A large percentage of hentai goes like that. (At least from what I've watched.) Basically my conclusion is when it's obvious that it's rape, it's rape fetish. It's stuff like Sekaiichi (Don't get me wrong, I still like some parts of it) where it doesn't /seem/ like rape, but for some reason the uke objects the seme at /almost/ every scene, that's when rape is normalized and encouraged.

Bro, I clicked on your profile and you seem to always have a say about the rape context on mangas, you enjoy the rape fetish, you're probably one of those guys that fantasize about it . Please keep your bias to yourself, I agreed with what the first person said. You're trolling those who don't agree with rape, I don't care about you have to say.

Believe it, a victim doesn't enjoy rape, there is no physical submission to pleasure. Portraying the victim as enjoying it is fetishization.

However, in situations where the victim is enjoying it bc they have a rape fetish, it should be clearly stated that it is the theme, otherwise, again, fetishization - the difference is that in one the victim enjoys a bad thing because they have a fetish, in the other the victim enjoys because it's a good thing, and you can't just assume a victim's default reason for enjoying is fetish, hence why the need to state it. And even so, it would be rape bc the rapist didn't seek consent from his victim, the fetish is one-sided. Now that would be a great theme now that I think about it.

Of course, there are many kinds of rape. I haven't heard of the manga you're talking about, but I imagine it's the same as Koisuru Boukun - the uke says no and doesn't want it at all, but the seme forces it and eventually he says yes. That is still rape and to some extent gaslight, but it mixes a lot with the manga pattern of sexual repression where one (female, or usually the uke bc uke = girl to some ppl) can't express sexual desire, they have to deny their enjoyment. It's a pretty rapist idea, but also should be carefully watched from case to case, cuz in some cases the char is just the typical tsundere. The reactions of the seme to that should be carefully written by the author then to make it a good relationship w the tsundere char.

Tbh, some chars are just tsundere to the extreme, other times the intention to make the seme sexy is too forceful. And the tradition of portraying the seme as a sex god whose skills are sure to rock a dude's world plays a good hand at it. Personally, I like it more when the uke is more assertive than the seme (but that usually falls on the old stereotype that the uke is a slut bc he is assertive, bc a good uke has to be tsundere, and thus they usually make the uke as a cheater, bc a sexually aware person is obvs a slut or bc gay people are sluts who can't commit and the straight turned gay seme comes as a change for his pattern. - but when the seme is a cheater, it's all good and the uke forgives and even blames himself. Disgusting stereotypes as well. I can't be pleased :p)

But what you said about normalization in situations where the rape doesn't seem rape is true. That is different kind of fetishization, that is much like gaslight. Two kinds of fetishization are recognizing it and portraying rape as enjoyable, or absolutely denying its existence. P sure we would find more if we put a thought to it.

Again, I suggest Harada and Zariya for reading, and Naono Bohra for an escape from most stereotypes of yaoi. After years reading about girly tsun ukes and sex beast semes, anything that escapes the stereotype is great.

Oh wow, you just made that really clear. See, there was a yaoi manga I read a couple months back that was similar to the sort of the hentai that contains rape in it. It’s called Ikujinashi No Spectator. If I remember accurately, the chapter was almost only rape scenes and the story was about dominating and harassing this one uke that used to have a very cocky attitude and basically forcing him to submit and become more docile. I never finished it, only read up to the first or second chapter, but at that time the manga had a 9.0 rating and not many people mentioned anything about rape. Personally, I thought it was fetishising rape, but I don’t know. I don’t have that good of a grasp around differentiating these things yet, maybe you could read the first chapter (it’s 32 pages) and tell me if you think that’s fetishising rape.

Also, I’ve read Zariya’s work and Harada’s ‘Yatamono’. I absolutely love that one, but it scared me at certain points. (In a good way, I guess. It brought out different emotions in me.) Haven’t read anything from Naono though, I’ll be sure to check it out. I also get what you’re saying about the stereotypes, although some manga that have those stereotypes are still really good anyway, Ichikawa Kei’s stories are more natural and have less of a difference between ukes and semes (Sometimes you may even be surprised after finding out who the uke/seme is.) You might’ve read some of these before but ‘Blue Sky Complex’, ’19 days’, ‘Canis’, ‘Sojou no Koi wa Nido Haneru’(Read the prequel first), ‘Dog style’, ‘Vassalord’, ‘Under Grand Hotel’ are all really unique shounen ai and yaoi mangas. I recommend them also. Anyway, you really clarified the whole rape thing for me. Thanks for the enlightenment.

I have something to say about rape when people accuse a manga for using rape in a scene where it is perfectly ok to use it. There are just some people who automatically think a rape scene is encouraging rape when it isn’t always. My fetishes are a personal thing, you shouldn’t assume or judge things you don’t know about me. I don’t fantasise of rape. I am not trolling those who don’t agree with rape. When have I ever mentioned anything along the lines of “Rape is ok?” Quote me. If you don’t care about what I have to say, it means you’re not reading anything of mine properly, which explains why we have this misunderstanding now..

I couldn't agree more with you, those two really need to have a talk. There are too many things between them and if they don't properly talk, things will be a mess again.

True

In almost all male-based love triangles (not just yaoi triangles) the kind male backs away while saying, "I loved you, because you loved so and so." But you know it was just an excuse, so that the mc could be happy. Whenever those characters show up, I would pray that they would find someone else.

your coment is the best, agree with you.

Oh my god its just a story and if you knew you don't like shoujo then why would you read a harlequin manga that's based on a woman's fantisies. Its meant to have this kind of story to make a person like you understand true love which is irrational and inmpulsive. So that means you can't put love and logic together. The story shows that the girl still loved her husband even though going through their divorce and she clearly was not aware of it herself and tried to focus on her work. The real problem wasnt the cheating but the miscommunication. When the girl tried to sort things out her husbands staff keeps tying in the way. You shouldn't really focus on the internal factors that made their relationship fail but the external as well.

this reasoning is unconvincing.

I think the big mistake the guy made is he kissed other the other girl. Also, I blame both of them. Both of them should really have worked it out. they should really find a time to be together or enjoy life as a couple. I really don't like it when people just blame either the guy or the woman. Both of them are at fault.

Darling, this is NOT what women fantasize about.

I think that, while both of them are to blame for the marriage failure, the ultimate mistake of this manga is to throw all that blame on the woman on a very sexist way, even things that had nothing to do with her, such as his cheating.

Some may argue that love is irrational like that, but love doesn't excuse a toxic and abusive relationship.