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Nky022 September 18, 2024 4:15 pm

I’m really curious about something, it’s just a few question, please answer it honestly and try not to be rude.

1-) For the people who are disgusted by the ML behavior, is Jinx your very first Yaoi?

2-) Are you used to read only Shounen Ai?

3-) How many Yaoi have you read?

4-) If Jinx isn’t your first Yaoi, which one was it?

5-) Did you read or are reading the most popular Yaois?

6-) Do you know that no one is holding you captive to read this, that you have the choice to ignore this manhwa and pretend that it doesn’t exist?

7-) How old are you?

8-) Are you dealing with any kind of trauma right now?

9-) How long have you been a active member of the Yaoi community?

10-) Have you read Jinx?

11-) How worse is Jinx compared to other popular Yaoi out there?

That’s it for now, my honest opinion is that if:
- You’re a newbie in the Yaoi world;
- You’re young;
- Dealing with fresh traumas;
- Used only to soft genres;
- The ML face and the art was the main reason you choose to read this;
- You’re a Shounen Ai reader rather than a Yaoi reader;
- You’re not used to read about delicate themes been written by the mind of the capitalism’s slaves.

My advice to you is to give up, don’t read this, just straight up drop this and never read any popular yaois, keep yourself to Shounen Ai, it’s better for your mental health.

The same energy you have for this one, you should have it for the others out there too, that have a higher rating than this and are way worse in the SA theme.

I honestly stopped reading this (for now), still waiting for the redemption arc tho, because right now this is going nowhere.

P.s: English isn’t my first language, be aware of the grammatical errors.

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    Chicken nuggets September 18, 2024 1:28 pm

    The only problem is that mostly popular bl's full of r*pe which is not okay, and it's like the whole thing is normalizing in every manhwa, and it's crazy to think about that instead of well written(manhwa, manga, manhua) have less popularity than the disturbing manhwas. They are only popular because of the artsyles and the so called "red flags" are "good looking". (I'm not being rude, sorry if I sound rude)

    (English is also not my first language)

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    CC2020 September 18, 2024 1:38 pm
    The only problem is that mostly popular bl's full of r*pe which is not okay, and it's like the whole thing is normalizing in every manhwa, and it's crazy to think about that instead of well written(manhwa, mang... Chicken nuggets

    That’s true, they are full of SA, but the main point is that they know what they’re getting to, why they just keep reading it, instead of stopping. They’re the ones complaining but still giving it audience.

    And why they don’t have the same energy for the popular ones that are way worse than this.

    Are we forgetting that, Passion, Codename Anastasia, Finder, Painter of the Night (had a shit start), Roses Champagne, Killer Stalking and so many more have better rating than this and no one is going there to complain?

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    Chicken nuggets September 18, 2024 1:42 pm
    That’s true, they are full of SA, but the main point is that they know what they’re getting to, why they just keep reading it, instead of stopping. They’re the ones complaining but still giving it audienc... CC2020

    Exactly, I also wonder how they keep on hating in this but not the others, they are basically the same. Might be because the author is much more popular than the others.

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    MD joined on 10/7/23 is right September 18, 2024 1:45 pm
    That’s true, they are full of SA, but the main point is that they know what they’re getting to, why they just keep reading it, instead of stopping. They’re the ones complaining but still giving it audienc... CC2020

    The rating is actually higher. There is foul play.

    MD joined on 10/7/23 is right September 18, 2024 1:49 pm
    Exactly, I also wonder how they keep on hating in this but not the others, they are basically the same. Might be because the author is much more popular than the others. Chicken nuggets

    We gave wondered this… one of my friends said there was a comment complaining Jinx being on the screens in NY and it is like some of them had a personal vendetta against Jinx since.

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    MD joined on 10/7/23 is right September 18, 2024 1:50 pm

    I think this would be a great question.
    Question 10- Have you read Jinx?
    Many people have not read it and have been misled by haters.

    julietwithoutromeo September 18, 2024 6:18 pm

    I read so many BL that's I lost the count

    virc September 18, 2024 6:59 pm

    what so because other bl's r worse its ok to justify sa? stop watering down r8pe its real and affects people's lives for goodness sake.

    Robot_rabbit1234 September 18, 2024 7:48 pm
    That’s true, they are full of SA, but the main point is that they know what they’re getting to, why they just keep reading it, instead of stopping. They’re the ones complaining but still giving it audienc... CC2020

    Youre missing the point, we shouldn’t normalize and accept such morbid themes and expect a “happy ending” to make sense, apart from being unrealistic its just is plain bad writing, but yeah i guess ur point aorta holds up idk

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    ChiliChili2.0 September 18, 2024 8:01 pm

    Just the perfection in this comment section, thank you

    CC2020 September 18, 2024 8:39 pm
    Youre missing the point, we shouldn’t normalize and accept such morbid themes and expect a “happy ending” to make sense, apart from being unrealistic its just is plain bad writing, but yeah i guess ur poi... Robot_rabbit1234

    Not missing the point, because my point is that, if they actually stop reading it, the audience and sales will drop, so they will stop publishing it. Come here, in a illegal website complaining will not change anything, better go to the official one, post bad reviews there, for every manhwa that normalize SA, only then we will start see changes.

    No one in this thread (at least) is normalizing SA!!! That’s sick, I even stopped reading manhwas for less.

    We are just saying time and time again, to STOP READING IT AND GO TO ACTUAL FILE A REAL COMPLAINT IN THE LEGAL WEBSITE, the author isn’t in the comment section of mangago!

    We must not forget that if there’s no people to read, there will be no reason to publish something.

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    CC2020 September 18, 2024 8:41 pm
    what so because other bl's r worse its ok to justify sa? stop watering down r8pe its real and affects people's lives for goodness sake. virc

    Does anyone here said that they support SA? There’s worse and you don’t complain, that’s what’s is been said here and stop give it audience!

    MD joined on 10/7/23 is right September 18, 2024 8:56 pm
    Does anyone here said that they support SA? There’s worse and you don’t complain, that’s what’s is been said here and stop give it audience! CC2020

    That person you are responding to, has not read Jinx. They are here to attack people on misinformation.

    MD joined on 10/7/23 is right September 18, 2024 9:11 pm
    Youre missing the point, we shouldn’t normalize and accept such morbid themes and expect a “happy ending” to make sense, apart from being unrealistic its just is plain bad writing, but yeah i guess ur poi... Robot_rabbit1234

    How many horror movies have you watched?
    It seems like you're viewing fiction as if it must always be realistic or morally 'right,' but that's not always the case. Many horror movies and stories deal with morbid themes and some don’t have happy endings but some do, yet people watch them because they reflect certain emotions or fears, not reality. If we started policing fiction based on this, we'd lose genres like horror or thrillers entirely. Fantasy stories. Stories like Jinx or others with flawed or toxic characters aren’t about normalizing toxic behavior—they’re exploring how complicated people and relationships can be.

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    Clarion September 18, 2024 10:45 pm
    How many horror movies have you watched? It seems like you're viewing fiction as if it must always be realistic or morally 'right,' but that's not always the case. Many horror movies and stories deal with morbi... MD joined on 10/7/23 is right

    Where is there going to be poetic justice then, y'all will support anything,the sa culture in bls are already getting normalized people don't even see the problem anymore

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    Clarion September 18, 2024 10:46 pm
    How many horror movies have you watched? It seems like you're viewing fiction as if it must always be realistic or morally 'right,' but that's not always the case. Many horror movies and stories deal with morbi... MD joined on 10/7/23 is right

    Where is there going to be poetic justice then, y'all will support anything,the sa culture in bls are already getting normalized people don't even see the problem anymore, to think there are readers supporting this behavior such a disgrace

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    bangtan’s proof September 18, 2024 10:56 pm
    How many horror movies have you watched? It seems like you're viewing fiction as if it must always be realistic or morally 'right,' but that's not always the case. Many horror movies and stories deal with morbi... MD joined on 10/7/23 is right

    You can’t always use the excuse of ‘exploring complex people and relationships’ to justify the poor handling of these topics by certain authors. There’s a clear tendency among them (including this one) to rely on such scenarios and characters, but it’s not for the sake of “deep exploration”.

    If that were truly their intent, they would emphasize these issues by having characters first recognize, then verbalize, and finally address their actions rather than simply romanticizing them. This would show that the topic isn’t being trivialized. As someone pointed out, it’s often just a ‘redemption arc,’ with the male lead moving on without real consequences. So at end, what’s the point ?

    I’ve read a few chapters just to see for myself, and after reading the comments, it’s clear that nothing has changed. The author knows it works in terms of views and popularity. I used to read Yaoi when I was younger, my first one was BJ Alex. Now that I understand how harmful it can be, I realize that I once “fantasized” about those dynamics and it’s dangerous. You don’t even realize that what you’re reading is problematic, and the author never makes you understand that.

    For your example of horror movies :

    Comparing a webtoon like Jinx to a horror movie isn’t relevant because in horror movies, violence like murder are clearly there to scare and shock the audience and they KNOW it. It’s never portrayed as something romantic or normal. However, in Jinx, rape is often trivialized and sometimes shown as a form of “possessive romance “ or passion, which sends a dangerous message, especially in a world where rape is a harsh reality. While horror movies aim to provoke fear without normalizing anything, the normalization of rape in romantic contexts can confuse readers and risks making real-life violence seem acceptable and romantic, especially for teenagers. To me, it’s the equivalent of “Dark Romance”. It’s dangerous, i’m not even saying an opinion, it’s a fact.

    You also mentioned “viewing fiction as if it must always be realistic or morally right”, but rape is a real issue. No one is asking for morally perfect stories, but these topics must be handled responsibly.

    We live in a world where future generations may find it ‘romantic’ or ‘attractive’ to disregard the word ‘no.’ It’s a sad reflection of the times we’re in.

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    MD joined on 10/7/23 is right September 18, 2024 11:08 pm
    Where is there going to be poetic justice then, y'all will support anything,the sa culture in bls are already getting normalized people don't even see the problem anymore Clarion

    I understand your concern about the normalization of problematic themes, but don't agree with the way you're framing this. Your comment is making a sweeping generalization and projecting blame.
    I don't support harmful narratives or romanticize assault in any context. It's important to have these discussions, but we should do so from an informed perspective, recognizing that these issues exist in many forms of media, not just one genre.

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    MD joined on 10/7/23 is right September 18, 2024 11:18 pm
    You can’t always use the excuse of ‘exploring complex people and relationships’ to justify the poor handling of these topics by certain authors. There’s a clear tendency among them (including this one) ... bangtan’s proof

    I have only read your first sentence. I feel like you’re misrepresenting what I’ve said, and that first sentence comes across as an attempt to shut any real discussion down rather than engage with the actual points. Why are you framing my comments like this? I'm open to meaningful conversation, but it's difficult when someone starts by falsely accusing me of supporting something I clearly don't. What would you do? Don’t talk to the person, right?

    For clarity: I do not support trivializing serious issues like sexual assault in any context. I am a SA survivor. I believe these topics need to be handled responsibly, and it's important to critique how they're portrayed. However, attacking people over media preferences or assumptions doesn’t lead to productive change.

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    virc September 18, 2024 11:39 pm
    I have only read your first sentence. I feel like you’re misrepresenting what I’ve said, and that first sentence comes across as an attempt to shut any real discussion down rather than engage with the actua... MD joined on 10/7/23 is right

    attacking people over preferences or assumptions is what your arguing about? that's idiotic you think sa victims should respect people who romanticize that shit? sorry, but do you actually expect people to respect people's preference of people getting r8ped...?

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    Clarion September 18, 2024 11:46 pm
    I understand your concern about the normalization of problematic themes, but don't agree with the way you're framing this. Your comment is making a sweeping generalization and projecting blame. I don't support ... MD joined on 10/7/23 is right

    It wasn't you started from comparing rape and sa to horror movies where one is a real issue and one is made for a specific audience and even horror movies get criticized if there's no reasonable ending poetic justice or character development, you are right it doesn't exist in only one genre which makes it even more worrisome and hardly anybody is saying anything about it those who say anything about it our claims are dismissed as "it's just fiction" it's fiction but is the villain in the story getting what they deserve are there any empathy in the story towards the victim no, it is merely seen as " dominant romance", is the author admitting that the action is toxic and wrongful

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    Robot_rabbit1234 September 19, 2024 12:35 am
    How many horror movies have you watched? It seems like you're viewing fiction as if it must always be realistic or morally 'right,' but that's not always the case. Many horror movies and stories deal with morbi... MD joined on 10/7/23 is right

    I don’t think all media should be “morally correct” if anything itd make stuff boring, what i was trying to say is that an entire literary industry shouldn’t normalize things like for example sexual assault in their stories, this is the reason why people who are outside of the bl community see us a bunch of creepy rape apologists who fetishize gay relationships. Yes stories are absolutely allowed to show rape and all that over twisted bs, but it shouldn’t become a normalized story arc in your average bl story. “Exploring how complicated relationships can be” how? By having the uke immediately forgive their rapist? Like i said before i don’t think it’s good writing but im not advocating for everyone to stop reading these altogether im just saying that our standards for “good” bl really needs to change. (Also you make really good points here thinking of a rebuttal was pretty difficult lol)

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    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 19, 2024 12:44 am

    Your comment seems like a strawman argument

    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 19, 2024 12:47 am
    I don’t think all media should be “morally correct” if anything itd make stuff boring, what i was trying to say is that an entire literary industry shouldn’t normalize things like for example sexual ass... Robot_rabbit1234

    "I’ll let my friend know to read your comment. Thanks for being respectful and engaging in a thoughtful conversation.

    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 19, 2024 12:52 am
    It wasn't you started from comparing rape and sa to horror movies where one is a real issue and one is made for a specific audience and even horror movies get criticized if there's no reasonable ending poetic j... Clarion

    Jinx has no rape but does explore themes of sexual assault. My friend wasn’t comparing SA to horror movies; they provided insightful commentary on the bigger picture. It seems you’re conflating fiction with reality. Murder and torture are real issues too, yet they’re depicted in fiction for specific audiences as Jinx and those like Jinx are depicted in fiction for specific audiences. Jinx isn’t complete yet—let’s wait until it is finished before making final judgments. It’s important to separate fiction from reality and understand this genre better.

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    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 19, 2024 1:04 am
    You can’t always use the excuse of ‘exploring complex people and relationships’ to justify the poor handling of these topics by certain authors. There’s a clear tendency among them (including this one) ... bangtan’s proof

    My friend asked me to read your comment before they do, and I’ve taken some time to think about how to respond.

    First, I want to address the ongoing harassment my friends and I have experienced here. We tend to disengage when conversations become unproductive or devolve into personal attacks. When someone makes false assumptions about our comments or misrepresents what we've said, it understandably raises our guard. My friend felt the need to protect themselves after reading your first sentence, and I think that’s justified.

    My friend made some valid points, but it seems they were dismissed. Many authors write to explore complex characters and relationships and engage deeply with these themes. Your handling of my friend’s comments felt dismissive and lacking nuance.

    You mentioned that authors should emphasize these issues and have characters recognize and verbalize them. However, this perspective may reflect a misunderstanding of the genre, which often explores complex and mature themes. Many do recognize it but sometimes it is we are labeling something it is not. If you're questioning the purpose of these narratives, it might be worth considering that dark romance and similar genres serve different storytelling intentions. I encourage you to seek out what resonates with you, rather than dismissing narratives that you may not fully understand

    It’s important to recognize that not everything is harmful; many see the problematic aspects while still enjoying the genre. Generalizations like yours overlook the nuances that many acknowledge.

    Regarding my friends comparison to horror movies, it is relevant here. They can explore violence and fear without promoting those themes as acceptable. Many don't watch horror movies to be scared. Horror lovers enjoy what is happening and not being scared of it. Framing the conversation in a way that discredits my friend’s perspective isn’t constructive. It’s crucial to engage respectfully and avoid tearing someone down for having a different opinion or being factually.

    Let’s remember how to have conversations without resorting to personal attacks or misrepresentation. This approach only serves to divide us further when we should be able to discuss differing viewpoints honestly and respectfully.

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    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 19, 2024 2:16 am
    Your comment seems like a strawman argument TM joined on 1/26/20 is right

    This comment was to virc's comment. (last comment on page one)

    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 19, 2024 2:39 am

    Let's go back to the original message:

    1. While I may not be the targeted audience of the questions, many people might find some of the ML's behavior unacceptable, even if they love the story. Jinx isn't my first yaoi.

    2. I haven't read much shounen ai—maybe 3 or 4.

    3. I’ve read many yaoi but can't pinpoint an exact number.

    4. I wish I knew my first yaoi. I read a lot of doujinshi first. I guess maybe Kissing or Level C. Level C I didn’t finish.

    5. No.

    6. This question shows I'm not the target audience. Yes, no one is holding anyone captive to read this, they have the choice to ignore this manhwa and pretend that it doesn’t exist.

    7. Private but from an older generation.

    8. I'm being cyberstalked and harassed on Mangago. Would that be a yes?

    9. While I've read yaoi, I haven't engaged much in the community despite reading for over many years.

    10. Yes, many times.

    11. There are worse yaoi out there than this one.

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    Chicken nuggets September 19, 2024 12:59 pm
    You can’t always use the excuse of ‘exploring complex people and relationships’ to justify the poor handling of these topics by certain authors. There’s a clear tendency among them (including this one) ... bangtan’s proof

    THIS!!!!

    CC2020 September 19, 2024 2:05 pm
    You can’t always use the excuse of ‘exploring complex people and relationships’ to justify the poor handling of these topics by certain authors. There’s a clear tendency among them (including this one) ... bangtan’s proof

    YES GIRL (づ ̄ ³ ̄)づ! One manhwa that actually tried to issue the relationships that started with SA, coercion or anything like that was Low Tide in Twilight, the author really make the ML see that what they did was wrong the Uke and the audience would feel it too, they really tried their best to address it, not simply going after to “and they lived happily forever”,”.

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    Robot_rabbit1234 September 19, 2024 3:03 pm
    "I’ll let my friend know to read your comment. Thanks for being respectful and engaging in a thoughtful conversation. TM joined on 1/26/20 is right

    Of course! these kinds of conversations around media consumption are very important and we need to debate and discuss in a respectful and civilized matter. Getting angry and jumping to conclusions about the other person really wont help anyone get anywhere in terms of figuring out whats right

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    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 19, 2024 4:24 pm
    YES GIRL (づ ̄ ³ ̄)づ! One manhwa that actually tried to issue the relationships that started with SA, coercion or anything like that was Low Tide in Twilight, the author really make the ML see that what t... CC2020

    This is for Chicken Nuggets too.
    I’ve noticed you two are agreeing with that comment.

    I’d like to ask for a detailed explanation of how they misrepresented my friend’s comment. Specifically, how did they twist my friend's words and stance, and in what ways did they dismiss and trivialize my friend’s perspective to voice their own opinions while presenting them as facts?

    Additionally, regarding the horror movie analogy, it seems they overlooked the valid points my friend made. I’d appreciate clarity on how you’re supporting a comment that shifts focus away from the original discussion, creating an echo chamber instead of engaging with my friend. It seems they are not directly addressing my friend. Who are they really talking to here? How does their comment fit or correlate with my friend's? I know it doesn’t.
    Let’s strive for a more constructive dialogue.
    Also, there are many others than Low Tide in Twilight.

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    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 19, 2024 4:43 pm
    Of course! these kinds of conversations around media consumption are very important and we need to debate and discuss in a respectful and civilized matter. Getting angry and jumping to conclusions about the oth... Robot_rabbit1234

    "I appreciate your understanding and willingness to engage in a respectful conversation. You’re right; however, some people here seem more interested in creating conflict than in having a meaningful dialogue. It’s noticeable when they resort to strawman arguments and gaslighting, shifting the focus to what they can attack instead of engaging directly with the person.

    This creates an echo chamber where they’re more concerned with being right than listening to others. It’s disheartening to see people tearing each other down, often to feel better about themselves. Many in this space seem to attack others for their personal feelings without truly listening. When we notice this happening, we tend to disengage when conversations become unproductive or devolve into personal attacks. Sadly, that’s what is happening here, aside from your contributions.

    I hope we can work toward a more constructive and empathetic conversation.

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    Akaito September 19, 2024 4:50 pm

    OP I will respond to your little questionnaire at some point today because it’s very fascinating to me in many way but I just wanted to say to other people in this thread, I would strongly caution against engaging with TM and MD. They’re not actually interested in having a real discussion—which they accuse others of all the time. They just want to be correct and they will very deliberately misrepresent/misinterpret your every single word, read you at the worst possible faith, and blatantly ignore any factual or valid points you raise—or anything that they themselves say that prove you correct—in order to do so. They will not actually engage with what you’re actually saying, no matter how clearly you articulate, no matter how much evidence you present. The point is to deliberately frustrate you so that you become increasingly hostile and/or keep engaging with them, so that they can then accuse you of being hostile, of misrepresenting them and their points, of being a blind hater, of being a stalker/part of some broader hate/cyberbullying group they’ve invented in their heads, etc.

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    Clarion September 19, 2024 4:52 pm
    Jinx has no rape but does explore themes of sexual assault. My friend wasn’t comparing SA to horror movies; they provided insightful commentary on the bigger picture. It seems you’re conflating fiction with... TM joined on 1/26/20 is right

    Separate fiction from reality really that's what you are going with,how are murder and toture in this bl depicted they have merely turned it into a new trope it's not written in a condemning way but written in a way as something to fantasize and fetishize about, there is a thin line between fiction and reality things in fiction happen in reality this fiction also affects the way readers view male to male relationships the uke as something to cripple take over and dominate by the seme this is a very dangerous narrative, I'm not conflicting both it's bothersome that because "it's fiction" you don't see anything wrong with lack of sa and rape condemnation, the bigger picture oh please oh my bad they are using horror to justify shitty writing in a manhwa, because these kind of things exist in different forms of art doesn't mean they shouldn't be condemned,no wonder people see bl readers as creeps

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    Clarion September 19, 2024 4:56 pm
    You can’t always use the excuse of ‘exploring complex people and relationships’ to justify the poor handling of these topics by certain authors. There’s a clear tendency among them (including this one) ... bangtan’s proof

    Well said well said

    Akaito September 19, 2024 4:56 pm
    OP I will respond to your little questionnaire at some point today because it’s very fascinating to me in many way but I just wanted to say to other people in this thread, I would strongly caution against eng... Akaito

    Ah and, to add, they’re not communicating to you with their own words but are instead using ChatGPT to structure and write their responses most of if not all the time. They won’t be forthright about this fact, and when you call them out for it, they will either lie and say they don’t use it, or say that their use of it isn’t bad, and that, actually, you’re wrong and prejudiced and a bully for not wanting to talk to someone using AI generated responses and for feeling lied to and mislead because AI use was not disclosed.

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    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 19, 2024 5:19 pm
    OP I will respond to your little questionnaire at some point today because it’s very fascinating to me in many way but I just wanted to say to other people in this thread, I would strongly caution against eng... Akaito

    It seems like this comment is more about trolling than fostering genuine discussion. I've seen how aggressive Akaito has been toward my friends, and it's disheartening. Akaito's actions suggest his never was interested in a real conversation; rather, He wanted to provoke and press us. He even said he wanted to press us. I never talked to Akaito for how he treated my friends.

    Akaito is projecting his behavior onto us, describing what he has done as if it were us. We are not TM or MD.
    TM and MD haven’t engaged since March and May, respectively, so it's misleading to equate our responses with theirs. We’ve disengaged because of the hostility directed at us, and we’re not the ones creating falsehoods here. Akaito witnessed the cyberstalking we've faced, yet he dismissed it. It’s frustrating to see him playing the victim while not taking responsibility for your actions. He admitted to some but he ever took responsibilty for them.

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    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 19, 2024 5:19 pm
    Ah and, to add, they’re not communicating to you with their own words but are instead using ChatGPT to structure and write their responses most of if not all the time. They won’t be forthright about this fa... Akaito

    This is another falsehood.

    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 19, 2024 5:23 pm
    Well said well said Clarion

    I’ve noticed you are agreeing with that comment.

    I’d like to ask for a detailed explanation of how they misrepresented my friend’s comment. Specifically, how did they twist my friend's words and stance, and in what ways did they dismiss and trivialize my friend’s perspective to voice their own opinions while presenting them as facts?

    Additionally, regarding the horror movie analogy, it seems they overlooked the valid points my friend made. I’d appreciate clarity on how you’re supporting a comment that shifts focus away from the original discussion, creating an echo chamber instead of engaging with my friend. It seems they are not directly addressing my friend. Who are they really talking to here? How does their comment fit or correlate with my friend's? I know it doesn’t.
    Let’s strive for a more constructive dialogue.

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    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 19, 2024 5:33 pm
    Separate fiction from reality really that's what you are going with,how are murder and toture in this bl depicted they have merely turned it into a new trope it's not written in a condemning way but written in ... Clarion

    I appreciate your perspective. Let’s take a step back and breathe. I believe it’s important to separate fiction from reality, much like how we view horror movies. Jinx is no different in that regard.

    From what I gather, you seem to be treating this story as if it were real. While there are moments of violence, there is no murder or torture in Jinx. You might mention the loan sharks beating Dan, but that doesn't equate to the torture being discussed.

    I think you’re missing the essence of our point. Horror movies often explore dark fantasies without condoning real-life violence, and similarly, readers can engage with complex narratives in BL without endorsing harmful behavior. While certain tropes can indeed be problematic, analyzing fiction allows us to understand its impact better. Fiction can reflect reality, but it doesn't dictate our views on relationships.

    Engaging with these themes critically fosters deeper understanding rather than outright condemnation. It’s vital to have nuanced discussions instead of painting all readers with the same brush.

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    CC2020 September 19, 2024 5:52 pm

    I really think the owner of the original comment should just delete it, like for real, we are reaching too many replies already, I think it reached 30 >>. Her notifications must be suffering big time

    Clarion September 19, 2024 9:06 pm
    I appreciate your perspective. Let’s take a step back and breathe. I believe it’s important to separate fiction from reality, much like how we view horror movies. Jinx is no different in that regard.From wh... TM joined on 1/26/20 is right

    Shhh if I can remember correctly you were the one who mentioned murder and toture so I was following what you said

    you aren't ready to have a serious Convo right now nobody is saying jinx isn't fiction it is fiction everybody knows that it's not real, because a book is fiction doesn't give an author right to depict shitty stories and violent themes books can have sa rapes and violence maybe talking from the victims point of view this book clearly doesn't paint the seme as the bad guy much and paints it as something normal or some kind of normal relationship what do you want to understand?? Understanding what kind of themes I can't believe people still support shit like this I've lost hope in humanity

    speak for yourself there are plenty of creepy bl stans that have already turned this into a gay fetish because it's fiction doesn't mean it wouldn't have an impact, do some more gathering I'm vexed not because I think it's real but people don't see the problem and just going "meh it's just fiction it's just a little bit dark romance",horror movies are made to scare and they do show in the plot as what the villain is doing is wrong and harmful but a lot of bls don't, they continue the relationship and act like nothing happens the uke probably forgives and goes back to normal instead of characters like jaekhyung going to prison and getting what they deserve, luckily there is a 31 minutes vid on YouTube on why this wrong check it out and if you still see this as "fostering deeper understanding" get helpp
    "dark fantasies" that's all you see this as,blatant sa

    I would never paint all readers with the same brush because I can clearly see there are still the normal ones left

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    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 19, 2024 10:20 pm
    Shhh if I can remember correctly you were the one who mentioned murder and toture so I was following what you saidyou aren't ready to have a serious Convo right now nobody is saying jinx isn't fiction it is fic... Clarion

    It seems you believe that the themes portrayed in fiction have real-world consequences, which is a valid concern. We should examine how these stories shape perceptions of relationships, even if they are fictional. Let’s explore your comment further.

    "Shhh if I can remember correctly you were the one who mentioned murder and toture so I was following what you said"

    --- Is your interpretation of what I said aligned with my intentions or words? No.


    "you aren't ready to have a serious Convo right now"

    --I’m completely serious, and my comments reflect that. Is that considered projection?


    "nobody is saying jinx isn't fiction it is fiction everybody knows that it's not real,"

    --While it's clear that Jinx is fiction, that's not what we meant.

    "because a book is fiction doesn't give an author right to depict shitty stories and violent themes books"

    Look at horror films like "Saw" or "Thanksgiving."


    "because a book is fiction doesn't give an author right to depict shitty stories and violent themes books can have sa rapes and violence "

    --There are many examples in fiction, including "The Bible," "The Hills Have Eyes," "Evil Dead," "The Crow," "American Horror Story," and more.

    Considering Dan’s perspective can paint Jaekyung negatively, as it makes Dan seem like an object, which he isn’t an object to Jaekyung.

    " Understanding what kind of themes I can't believe people still support shit like this I've lost hope in humanity"

    Themes with SA? That exists in many works, from "Sixteen Candles" to "Animal House," "Back to the Future," "Ghostbusters," and even "Looney Tunes."

    "speak for yourself there are plenty of creepy bl stans that have already turned this into a gay fetish"

    --Claiming that many fans have fetishized this genre isn’t accurate. That is misrepresenting them with an opinion.

    "because it's fiction doesn't mean it wouldn't have an impact,"

    -- It's true that fiction can have an impact, but how much does it influence those who attack others while misrepresenting these themes?

    " I think it's real but people don't see the problem " People sees Jinx being problemic but do you see the problem with what you and those like you are doing by making up points and conflicting this to reality as it shouldn't."

    While people recognize Jinx as problematic, do you see the issue in your approach of conflating fiction with reality? You dismiss the horror movie analogy, which suggests you view the violence and rape in "American Horror Story" as acceptable.

    "and just going "meh it's just fiction it's just a little bit dark romance" ,horror movies are made to scare and they do show in the plot as what the villain is doing is wrong and harmful "

    Saying horror movies are purely meant to scare is misleading.

    "they continue the relationship and act like nothing happens the uke probably forgives and goes back to normal instead of characters like jaekhyung going to prison and getting what they deserve"

    Not all narratives follow the same pattern; many yaoi stories offer different perspectives. In real life, Jaekyung wouldn’t face prison.

    If that video is from Laby, I won’t watch it due to its misinformation.


    " that's all you see this as,blatant sa"

    While I acknowledge that Jinx involves sexual assault multiple times, it seems you’re equating that to reality while ignoring my points. Dismissing the presence of rape doesn’t eliminate the sexual assault or coercion depicted—rape is a form of sexual assault, SA can be many things not just rape. It’s crucial to use these terms accurately and avoid hasty labeling. Why focus on dark romance while overlooking the murder and rape in shows like "American Horror Story," where characters often undergo transformation after horrific actions? This transformation is unlikely in real life, similar to many other horror movies. They exist for adult entertainment and shouldn’t be conflated with reality, which you seem to misunderstand.

    "I would never paint all readers with the same brush because I can clearly see there are still the normal ones left"

    --I won’t generalize all readers, but your biases and beliefs may influence your perspective.

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    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 19, 2024 10:30 pm
    Where is there going to be poetic justice then, y'all will support anything,the sa culture in bls are already getting normalized people don't even see the problem anymore Clarion

    Example of "I won’t generalize all readers, but your biases and beliefs may influence your perspective."
    You generalized my friend in your initial comment, making it easier to attack from your viewpoint rather than their own. You seem to assume they don’t recognize the problematic themes, while I feel you’re conflating fiction with reality. BTW, they have comments saying Jinx is non-con, SA, and Sexual coercion but it is not rape. We are fully aware of how problematic Jinx but it is for entertainment for those who understand.

    The real issue lies in people not taking the time to understand before shaming others for their preferences, while similar themes in works like "Saw" or "AHS" go unchallenged. Those who enjoy Jinx have every right to do so, and attacking them for it is unjust.

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    Akaito September 19, 2024 10:34 pm

    Long response incoming!

    1-) For the people who are disgusted by the ML behavior, is Jinx your very first Yaoi?

    Nope! This isn’t my first yaoi. But to counter this question—am I not supposed to feel disgusted by Jaekyung’s behavior towards Dan? Am I not supposed to feel anger, horror, disgust, etc about another character hurting the main character who I’m rooting for? Aren’t you, a lot of the time, meant to sympathize with the protagonist and the things they’re experiencing? Or is that different here for some reason? Why?

    2-) Are you used to read only Shounen Ai?

    Nope! Again, this isn’t my first yaoi, and I’ve read a variety of different things. Or, well, used to read. I’ve stopped reading yaoi/BL webtoons, or at least, ones where romance (or “romance”) is the main plot and there’s nothing else going on (I like fantasy settings, adventures, and also character explorations/psychological stories so my interests have somewhat changed over time).

    3-) How many Yaoi have you read?

    I don’t know, it never occurred to me to keep track. I’ll say probably at least 20, just based off my page here (which I don’t use very much at all LOL).

    4-) If Jinx isn’t your first Yaoi, which one was it?

    I don’t remember. The first one I have here is Ten Count—something I actually kind of want to revisit, because I was quite young at the time of reading, and now that I’m older and have more perspective, I’m interested to see how it holds up. From what little I can recall I feel as if it handles some of it’s own themes/topics somewhat well but likely with some inaccuracies and sexual fantasy aspects as well (Ten Count features a protagonist with OCD and I believe the whole premise is he ends up having to do exposure therapy to cure it with the guy who is treating him, who he falls in love with).

    5-) Did you read or are reading the most popular Yaois?

    I don’t know what’s popular nowadays aside from this. I know Killing Stalking was popular and I’ve read that one. I started reading Painter of The Night and don’t recall really caring much for it? Ten Count was itself popular for a time…

    6-) Do you know that no one is holding you captive to read this, that you have the choice to ignore this manhwa and pretend that it doesn’t exist?

    Yes I do :) I’m not going to though because I’m interested in seeing how it ends and how the author will handle it. In the first place I read it to see if I could understand where people were coming from in how they were discussing it. But besides that, I engage with it willingly, even if I don’t like it, because I think there can be value in engaging with the things we don’t like just as much as there is in engaging with the things we do like. Knowing what we don’t like and being able to articulate why is useful, as it teaches us more about ourselves and the way we think about things/how we feel about things. It may help instruct us in how we choose to move through the world. As someone who is myself a writer, engaging with Jinx is a useful exercise because I can think through how craft is working (or isn’t working) in the story, and how I can apply it in my writing.

    7-) How old are you?

    22 :)

    8-) Are you dealing with any kind of trauma right now?

    Yes, and I’m not going to disclose what it is, because I nor anyone else should have to prove that I’m NOT suffering from some type of trauma that would prevent me from having some kind of knee-jerk reaction to this webtoon and what it’s depicting. The implication that the only reason why someone might have any type of adverse reaction to this webtoon is because of some type of mental illness or trauma is fucking stunning. I don’t know if this was your intention or not, OP, but this question frames things as if anyone who has any disagreement with the webtoon just has something wrong with them, and thus they and their perspective can and should be completely discredited. You’re also positing that people with trauma and/or mental illness are incapable of engaging with any type of taboo media without that trauma/mental illness getting in their way of them critically analyzing things or separating fiction from reality, which is…infantilizing, to say the least, and perpetuates horrible stereotypes against those with trauma/mental illness. Again, I’m not saying that was your intent. But I wanted to point it out. Especially if you are actually concerned about people who suffer from these things.

    9-) How long have you been a active member of the Yaoi community?

    I don’t consider myself as part of a “yaoi community,” I’m someone who enjoys stories. Yeah, I might have a preference for BL, but the sexuality doesn’t necessarily matter to me as much as whether or not the story is well-written and/or entertaining/engaging in some way. My account says my first bookmark or whatever was 2018 so at least 6 years.

    10-) Have you read Jinx?

    Sure have! Read it once and then read the first four chapters again and took notes on it specifically so that I could disprove claims that Jaekyung did not rape Dan (spoiler alert: he did, by all definitions, rape him, and if you don’t understand that—we can discuss why).

    11-) How worse is Jinx compared to other popular Yaoi out there?

    No clue. I don’t really read this shit anymore unless my friends recommend me something. Again, my general interests have changed and shifted. I’m sure there are manhwa out there that depict similar or even more harrowing topics than rape and abuse, amongst other things, and I’m sure that there are some that handle these topics better and/or worse than Jinx does. That said, it doesn’t really matter if there are worse things out there. We’re talking about this specific manhwa. That’s like if I was talking about some guy that robbed a bank and hurt people and how it’s wrong that they did that, and you turned to me and said “well there are worse criminals out there!” Does that now mean that what the criminal I was talking about wasn’t wrong for what he did? And that we can’t/shouldn’t address it? That we should excuse it, even?

    Addressing your final points and conclusions

    There are absolutely some people who are here critiquing the manga for what I believe are the wrong reasons, or without taking a nuanced approach to it. There are some who I’ve talked with here who seem to be against the portrayal of rape/abuse in media period, for example, or the idea that people might get off to those types of dynamics in a fictionalized context—I think that that’s wrong. Indeed, people should be able to write what they want to. And I think telling stories about rape and abuse can be good, actually—it can help people better understand abusive relationships and how they work, it can help people work through their own traumas, all that fun stuff. But I believe that when we’re handling issues like rape and abuse, we have a certain responsibility to depict those things with care, especially with something these topics which are so…fraught in real life. It doesn’t mean don’t show it, or dumb it down—it means portraying those things with truth and with nuance. It means actually, fully exploring the implications of the things your characters say and do, and what effect it will have on the other characters and the story overall. The only exception I personally take with this is if you’re writing a complete and total sexual fantasy, wherein you’re free to play around with those types of story elements because it’s porn and you and everyone else understand it to be that. Jinx, to me, does not feel like total fantasy. Especially since the non-porn aspects of this story actually have bearing on the characters, and we know for a fact that Jaekyung is going to have an arc in which he learns and grows. Porn without plot just...wouldn't care to do those things. So I don't think it's unfair to want more out of the story and the things its portraying, especially things as serious as rape and abuse. And ESPECIALLY when we already have so much media that portrays abuse and nonconsent in ways that are often harmful to people.

    You talk about how there are other manhwa out there that are more explicit or more brutal, I guess, with their depictions of rape and sexual assault. I’m sure there are. But see, some of them are indeed meant to just be sexual fantasy. There’s little to no rhyme or reason for what’s going on, only enough so that the two characters can get together and start fucking. And other manhwas, they do depict more brutal abuse—but they haven’t just thrown the abuse in there for funsies, they actually intend to and do explore the impacts rape and abuse can have on people, to explore how people come to become abusers or fall into and stay trapped in abusive relationships. It’s not just there to be there. I don’t know how Jinx will end so I can’t say what the author’s intentions are for sure and whether or not she’ll actually address all of this stuff properly, we’ll have to see. But I honestly am not holding out hope for it, based off the writing of this so far.

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    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 19, 2024 10:44 pm
    How many horror movies have you watched? It seems like you're viewing fiction as if it must always be realistic or morally 'right,' but that's not always the case. Many horror movies and stories deal with morbi... MD joined on 10/7/23 is right

    My friend is addressing morbid themes like rape, sexual assault, murder, torture, and more. While these themes can and has appear in horror movies, they’re also present in dark romance. The focus seems to be on dark romance, even though similar themes are explored in other genres. If we try to eliminate dark romance, which is a sought-after genre, we risk losing other valuable narratives as well. Many horror films delve into dark themes without needing to conform to strict moral standards. Policing fiction threatens the existence of genres like horror, thrillers, fantasy and more.

    It seems that some are conflating reality with dark romances while doing the opposite with horror. Exploring difficult themes could help understand why something exists.

    My friend was encouraging you to reflect on this, but that point has been dismissed. My friend’s intention to promote reflection is also a constructive approach.

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    Nky022 September 20, 2024 1:19 am
    Long response incoming! 1-) For the people who are disgusted by the ML behavior, is Jinx your very first Yaoi?Nope! This isn’t my first yaoi. But to counter this question—am I not supposed to feel disgusted... Akaito

    Thank you so much for your thoughtful response!

    And answering some of your doubts about the post.

    I mostly posted it to see what the people here are really fighting for, if it’s just for the manhwa itself or the problematic nature we readers face while reading Yaoi contents, which involves a lot of rape, SA, exploration, coercion and a lot of tropes that shouldn’t be used lightly,I dare to say that they kind of use it like a blueprint.

    When I say about out there existing worse, is for people to understand that the change they’re preaching here, should be extended to other manhwa too, who their popularity is so high that’s reaching kids.

    Rape, SA and other kinds of abuses are things that unfortunately happen in real life, everyone should talk about it and show their views about how to prevent things like that to happen, but like everyone said before, it’s the way the authors make light of the situation, that trouble me the most, and that’s why I talked about people going through fresh trauma and age (because most of people here started reading Yaoi at least at 12), because, young minds could associate the behaviors they see portrait in the stories as some sort of example, like for example: a 12 y can say that rape is justified by love, and possessiveness and all kind of abuse is an okay behavior as long they love you. Redemption arc or not that’s not what happens in real life, most of the people that goes through that, they never even get a apology.

    And I will stick to this, that people that are going through situations like that right now, and are still in processing of healing should be not fed with those kind of plot, for me at least, it’s a disrespect to their struggles and can hinder their healing process. It’s not about invalidated their strength, it’s about to understand when they’re ready to face certain things again, after all they have been through.

    Maybe yes, I’m too practical but I will say what someone said here before, if you just keep scrolling instead of reading it! Is it, that hard! People don’t keep publishing something that has no audience, I have seeing many stories (even the good ones) that they stopped being published because of low audience, my thought is that maybe if they actually see towards numbers that no one is interested in reading time and time again stories, that the plot is basically, one character rape or abuse the other some other way, then repent and they live happily ever after, they will stop producing so many.

    I’m honestly fed up, fine, you can do one or two, by why so many, is that kind of themes so funny to them? Every writer should do a research when they want to write about a theme they don’t know, and how about they actually started research about the nuances that involves been through what all their characters goes through. And I don’t want to hear the excuse that, it’s Yaoi the plot shouldn’t matter that much, really? In 2024? To me if they really want to write, better start doing it right.

    And finally when I asked how many, how long, if you are reading any popular yaois, is simply to show that this kind of behavior is so deep implanted in the Yaoi industry, if I can call it that, that you see themes like that are being used for years just for entertainment and it doesn't matter if the story is more realistic or more close to the fantasy genre (like abo), the ones in charge they just don’t care, as long they see people reacting to it, even if it’s a bad reaction. And it’s not for you to think that, oh maybe it’s okay, because no it’s not okay and it’s time to see changes.

    Btw go read 10count now it will give you a new perspective.

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    Nky022 September 20, 2024 1:22 am
    I really think the owner of the original comment should just delete it, like for real, we are reaching too many replies already, I think it reached 30 >>. Her notifications must be suffering big time CC2020

    47 replies ( ̄∇ ̄"), should I really delete it (⊙…⊙ )?

    Clarion September 20, 2024 2:31 am
    It seems you believe that the themes portrayed in fiction have real-world consequences, which is a valid concern. We should examine how these stories shape perceptions of relationships, even if they are fiction... TM joined on 1/26/20 is right

    Again you keep twisting my words I know for a full fact that jink is just a manhwa stop saying shit like I'm conflicting this with reality which is totally false, horror stories which you mention in the above when they talk about sensitive things involving sa, rape and murder they make it in a way where they are blatantly showing that the action depicted is horrible to scare viewers and all.

    "Characters undergo horrific transformations and all" what transformation after doing horrible things have we seen in this character and again stop throwing words I don't see this as reality.

    It is not wrong information that there are bl fans who have turned this into a fantasy, you are not ready to reason you keep mentioning and going over the same thing when you are given a point you call it "misinformation" when it is indeed through that these kind of stories have become a sexual fantasy among readers, that for sure isn't misinformation at all you aren't ready to have a Convo you dismiss all claims as misinformation or mispresentation

    Horror stories aren't made to romanticize and sexualize rape and sa and yes I know the difference jinx does have rape you don't need to give me a whole new lecture they show this actions as bad, they are for the scare, instead of leading them as normal

    Never said all narratives follow the same pattern but a lot follow this pattern and nobody is seeing the lack of justice they have turned it into a dominate and cripple the uke thing

    The difference between the violence and rape in horror movies is like I've said times without number they do acknowledge that this action is dangerous while in yaoi like jinx this sa is seen as a normal mxm relationship dynamic

    You are comparing a yaoi manhwa to a "Horror movie" which are supposed to depict violent themes yet they even handle it better they are for the scare they obviously show that oh the violence depicted is something dangerous and not positive

    It seems you don't see any problem with bad and shitty writing you can't just play around with sa without handling those topic carefully because it's fiction I can clearly see it is fiction


    When reading themes like this you are supposed to feel disgust, anger and all other negative emotions from this manhwa especially when the sa goes on and on without no character development and plot change at least the movies you listed had at least better character development or plot change than this don't you see how sa in stories should be taken and written with care yes I believe there should be more stories that talk about things like this in a meaningful way instead of turning it into a sexual fetish instead it should be telling the victims side of the story instead of romanticizing sa

    Now I return the question to you do you not see the attitude of you guys supporting such blatant romanticism and sexualizing of sa and throwing in irrelevant points as misleading and mispresenting

    You've literally got to be kidding me So jaekhyung doesn't see dan as an object to him, when we both know that is a lie he is just a plaything for he's amusement if he doesn't see him as an object then what more? A lover? Oh please because of lack of handling themes like this with care it has made people see dan as not a victim anymore

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    Clarion September 20, 2024 2:43 am
    Example of "I won’t generalize all readers, but your biases and beliefs may influence your perspective." You generalized my friend in your initial comment, making it easier to attack from your viewpoint rat... TM joined on 1/26/20 is right

    How do you enjoy a story where sa isn't handled with fragility,your friend can come and speak for him or herself, I am in full support of depicting violent themes as long as it is handled with care

    What kind of entertainment would you get from this,if it's not feeling disgust at the ml behavior then something's wrong some where

    When writers write about scenes like this it should be written properly I do believe you can learn a thing or two from this particular manhwa but not realizing the problem and the lack of care that this manhwa has is the problem

    There are so many harmful media depicting sexual violence that go unchallenged we don't need yaoi to be part of them, horror movies recognize this actions as bad and violent this manhwa doesn't

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    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 20, 2024 3:41 am
    How do you enjoy a story where sa isn't handled with fragility,your friend can come and speak for him or herself, I am in full support of depicting violent themes as long as it is handled with careWhat kind of ... Clarion

    I appreciate your passion for this topic and understand your concerns about how sensitive themes are handled in fiction. However, after reading your replies, I feel there’s a significant misunderstanding between us. It seems my points have been overlooked, and I sense that you’re interpreting my words through a specific lens rather than engaging with what I actually said.

    I recognize that Jinx explores complex themes, and while some aspects can be uncomfortable, fiction often aims to provoke thought and discussion. The creator has expressed intent in how these themes are presented. Just as horror movies explore dark themes without romanticizing them, Jinx can navigate difficult dynamics without implying they are acceptable in real life.

    Not everyone watches horror for fear—many appreciate it for its absurdity or complexity. Similarly, I believe we can analyze narratives like Jinx for critique. There is character development in Jinx, and I think that’s worth acknowledging. I want to clarify that Jaekyung has not raped Dan.

    Regarding your concerns about readers interpreting these narratives as fantasy, it is indeed a fantasy and not real. However, it’s essential to engage critically with the material rather than assume all readers take these themes at face value. Many enjoy these stories for their complexity and the opportunity to discuss difficult topics, not to fetishize them.

    Jaekyung does not see Dan as an object; the story conveys this through their interactions. Dan is not merely a plaything, and Jaekyung seeks a deeper emotional connection at various points. I wish you had asked for clarification instead of making assumptions that don’t align with the actual story. I can see from your comments that you don't understand this genre.

    I have never claimed to enjoy Jinx. It seems you’re assuming I derive entertainment from it without feeling disgust, which isn’t accurate—I’ve stated otherwise in our discussion. Your interpretation of Jaekyung's perspective may not fully align with the narrative as it has been presented. I am not the enemy you seem to perceive; your assumptions about my views and motivations overshadow my actual perspective and what I actually said or meant.

    Let’s focus on promoting responsible storytelling and understanding the diversity of perspectives in fiction.

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    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 20, 2024 3:53 am
    47 replies ( ̄∇ ̄"), should I really delete it (⊙…⊙ )? Nky022

    I understand why you might consider deleting this topic, and that’s your decision. However, I think it’s important to keep it up for a few reasons.
    On the other hand, while I can see the potential for a conversation, it feels like much of the discussion has focused on misrepresenting my friend's points. This should never have happened, as it demonstrates a tendency to create echo chambers rather than engage in genuine conversation.

    You've only had two responses to your questionnaire. I wished more engaged with your topic instead of what happened.
    This could have been an opportunity for meaningful dialogue, but it seems to have devolved into misunderstandings instead.

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    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 20, 2024 4:00 am
    It seems you believe that the themes portrayed in fiction have real-world consequences, which is a valid concern. We should examine how these stories shape perceptions of relationships, even if they are fiction... TM joined on 1/26/20 is right

    I had to make sure it was there,
    ""nobody is saying jinx isn't fiction it is fiction everybody knows that it's not real,"

    --While it's clear that Jinx is fiction, that's not what we meant."

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    bangtan’s proof September 20, 2024 10:53 am
    I have only read your first sentence. I feel like you’re misrepresenting what I’ve said, and that first sentence comes across as an attempt to shut any real discussion down rather than engage with the actua... MD joined on 10/7/23 is right

    It seems you’re not addressing any of the points I emphasized in my comment, but that’s hardly surprising.

    I also read your first sentence, but as someone open to a mature and meaningful conversation, I chose to read the entire paragraph instead of trying to ”manipulate” people online ;)

    We don’t know each other, and this is just a comment section on Mangago, so stop using the same generic phrases to garner pity.

    No, I’m not misrepresenting anything. I read your comments (the entire thing, not just the first sentence), and I’ve also read other’s comments : what a surprise to see you there too !

    You clearly said, ‘there’s no rape in Jinx’ in an other comment section. That’s disgusting and completely wrong.

    So, either we have a real conversation and you respond meaningfully, or just don’t comment. If it’s just to tell me how you ‘felt’ about this or that, I’m not interested.

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    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 20, 2024 12:24 pm
    It seems you’re not addressing any of the points I emphasized in my comment, but that’s hardly surprising.I also read your first sentence, but as someone open to a mature and meaningful conversation, I chos... bangtan’s proof

    Here's a revised message for you to share with the group that addresses your points clearly and maintains a respectful tone:

    @everyone

    I appreciate the willingness to engage in this conversation, but it seems Bangtan isn’t open to admitting any misunderstanding. I want to clarify a few important points. Our intention is to foster a respectful dialogue, not to manipulate or garner pity, which I find to be a disturbing accusation.

    We acknowledge the concerns about how sensitive topics are portrayed in media, and I agree that it's crucial to handle these issues responsibly. However, I believe it’s possible to critique portrayals without dismissing the perspectives of those who enjoy different genres, including dark romance. It’s essential that we approach comments with responsibility, and it feels like Bang has been negative in addressing my friend’s points.

    We should also consider the variety of ways stories engage with difficult themes. Not all narratives will approach these topics the same way, and personal interpretation plays a significant role.

    Regarding the comment about rape in "Jinx," this is a sensitive topic for many. It’s important to label things accurately. While someone may view a scenario as rape, it does not automatically make it so; it can also involve sexual assault or coercion, which are serious issues but distinct from the legal definition of rape. It seems Bang has misunderstood our discussion and interpreted it through a narrow lens rather than understanding our intent.

    Let’s aim for a constructive conversation where we can explore differing viewpoints without resorting to personal attacks. There’s real value in discussing these topics respectfully.

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    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 20, 2024 1:26 pm

    I want to ensure that Bangtan feels heard while addressing some critical misunderstandings. My friend has every right to disengage when they feel accused and misrepresented. It seems that Bangtan dismissed my friend’s actual points in favor of maintaining an echo chamber for their own views. If they were truly open to a mature conversation, their responses would have reflected that.

    The comment about maturity is concerning; it implies that my friend’s decision not to engage with a misrepresentation of their words is immature. This undermines constructive dialogue and shows lack of understanding.

    Bangtan’s responses reflect a lack of engagement with the nuances of my friend’s arguments. They were advocating for responsible storytelling and recognizing the complexities of character development, yet their comments were framed as dismissive of serious issues.

    When Bangtan suggested that my friend was excusing poor handling of sensitive topics, this missed the mark. My friend was not justifying anything; they were advocating for clarity and nuance in discussions about difficult themes. This narrow interpretation positions my friend as an easy target for unfair criticism.

    My friend also highlighted that different narratives, such as horror and dark romance, engage with challenging themes in various ways. Dismissing this comparison overlooks the valuable perspective they were trying to share.

    Additionally, my friend acknowledged the need for critique in how sensitive themes are portrayed in media but was accused of manipulating the discussion. This undermines their openness to meaningful conversation, especially given their experiences as a survivor.

    It’s essential to approach these discussions with an understanding that not all narratives will align with our interpretations. I hope we can move forward with respect and understanding, allowing for diverse perspectives without resorting to personal attacks.

    I chose to disengage with Bangtan due to personal attacks and misrepresentations, as well as their reluctance to acknowledge these misunderstandings. It’s important to address actual points rather than dismissing them to maintain a position of being "right."

    +
    Clarion September 20, 2024 1:52 pm
    I appreciate your passion for this topic and understand your concerns about how sensitive themes are handled in fiction. However, after reading your replies, I feel there’s a significant misunderstanding betw... TM joined on 1/26/20 is right

    One thing about you is you seem to really know how to use that victim card a lot , you dismiss all points and immediately go "oh I was misinterpreted or that's misinformation" it's sickening or implying that you or your "friend" is being attacked when we are just having a plain discussion, it's always people misunderstanding you and your "friend" but never you misunderstanding people's point of view considering the fact that more than one person is facing you

    Jaekyung himself have emphasized that he sees dan as a play thing there's no emotional connection get out of your head,even if there was it doesn't make the rape justified and yes he was raped, nobody here is making assumptions that don't align with the story it's clearly there again get out of your head,you are not absorbing any of the points but have come to spit buzzwords and dismiss all claims

    I remember in one of your comments you mentioned that it's unfair to criticize people that enjoy genre like jinx you clearly stated it now you and please if you are ready to make a point stop the it's not real joke it's fiction doesn't mean we should support fiction that doesn't handle these matters with fragility this manhwa clearly doesn't,you keep saying the same thing you make no sense you don't even see dan as the victim anymore I don't know why you are going through various lengths to dismiss jaekyung's attitude and saying "he was seeking a deeper emotional connection" which is a freaking lie that everybody can see through,I clearly understand this genre

    I'm tired of going over the same points over and over again,you are not ready to absorb any points, I think it's disgusting you think dan wasn't raped shame on you

    And again I would not categorize all readers in the same book I have obviously seen the reasonable ones who have found a problem in the lack of proper research and lack of writing coordination in the story Maybe it's jaekyung's pretty privilege that makes you defend the character and the romanticism of rape to the fact that you are blind to it but it's disgusting so far, it's a big slap on the face that themes like this are becoming popular in yaoi

    +
    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 20, 2024 3:00 pm

    @Everyone

    I want to address the noticeable shift in Clarion's comments over the past few exchanges. Initially, there was genuine concern about the story and its handling of sensitive themes, but more recent messages feel more accusatory and personal. It’s like a different person is writing those messages, which makes me think there’s someone else behind them.

    I want to clarify that neither my friends nor I are using a "victim card" or dismissing anyone's perspectives. Those accusations misrepresent our intentions and seem more like projections. My goal has always been to foster a nuanced conversation about this complex narrative.

    The way we've been treated in this discussion is concerning. There have been personal attacks disguised as critiques, which only derail our conversation. While I don’t defend Jaekyung’s actions, my focus is on the broader narrative. It’s also frustrating that this person hasn’t engaged with the questionnaire and has been consistently rude, going against what the OP asked. It feels as though our viewpoints are being dismissed without true understanding.

    While many interpret the story differently, my friends and I believe there’s a crucial distinction between interpreting events as sexual assault and labeling them as rape, especially when considering the full context and character dynamics. It’s unproductive to dismiss our points while claiming we dismiss yours; this kind of personal attack only serves to derail the conversation. I have never dismissed anyone’s arguments—pointing out misunderstandings is not the same as dismissing them.

    Regarding Jaekyung’s perspective, I see an emotional connection between him and Dan that is often overlooked. Certain moments in the story suggest a Jaekyung is seeking an emotional connection. It’s important to analyze the narrative as a whole rather than reduce it to one interpretation. I see through Jaekyung.

    If someone understands this genre well, I’m curious why they interpret it solely as rape and overlook much about Dan's and Jaekyung's character. My comments reflect that Dan is a victim of sexual coercion and assault, but legally, it’s accurate to say he was not raped. This distinction doesn’t diminish his experience; it simply acknowledges the complexities within the story. Shaming those with different views (and being factual) is unproductive.

    I believe we can appreciate fiction while critically discussing how sensitive topics are portrayed. My intention is not to diminish anyone’s enjoyment of the story but to encourage a deeper exploration of its themes.

    Let’s strive for constructive dialogue that respects diverse interpretations without personal attacks. I truly believe that respectful conversation can lead to a better understanding of these important issues.

    +
    Akaito September 20, 2024 3:15 pm

    I’m once again cautioning people against TM. As you can see, he is using the exact tactics I’ve mentioned. He has been ignoring your points and saying you’ve been misinterpreting his in order to frustrate you and force you to address something that is completely beside the point. Now that you are frustrated and have been responding in that frustration, he is using your inevitable and intentionally caused slip in tone to make himself out to be the victim and further dismiss your points, under the guise of having the right to disengage.

    Robot_rabbit1234 September 20, 2024 4:02 pm
    "I appreciate your understanding and willingness to engage in a respectful conversation. You’re right; however, some people here seem more interested in creating conflict than in having a meaningful dialogue.... TM joined on 1/26/20 is right

    Absolutely, it really is annoying when people are more interested in being right than coming to the most likely conclusion, I really enjoyed this conversation and i hope to hear more from you in the future, as for the topic of the debate im definitely open to changing a few things about what i was initially thinking bc the points u brought up were great and really had me thinking lol, ive never actually met anyone here who didn’t resort to insults and anger when theyre challenged so its been nice having civil discussion about the bl industry

    +
    Clarion September 20, 2024 6:56 pm
    I’m once again cautioning people against TM. As you can see, he is using the exact tactics I’ve mentioned. He has been ignoring your points and saying you’ve been misinterpreting his in order to frustrate... Akaito

    Exactly this !!! it's broad day light gas lighting especially when they have no points to make

    Morning Diamonds 10/7 is right September 20, 2024 6:59 pm
    One thing about you is you seem to really know how to use that victim card a lot , you dismiss all points and immediately go "oh I was misinterpreted or that's misinformation" it's sickening or implying that yo... Clarion

    I will block you because you are another one of those users who actually reply to me and throw facts and logic. I hate it. I know Jaekyung is a rapist. I know you are correct. But what you don't know about me is, being delusional, an arrogant imbecile is part of my character. In fact, it is part of all the alt accounts I own. Tm, Morning diamonds for instance.

    +
    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 20, 2024 7:02 pm

    Warning About Cyberstalking
    Morning Diamonds 10/7 is right September 20, 2024 6:59 pm is a cyberstalker.
    https://www.mangago.zone/home/people/3704977/home/ that is their first comment here.

    This https://www.mangago.zone/home/people/3699209/home/ is my friend who has not reposted since page 1, i believe.

    I want to bring attention to an ongoing issue of cyberstalking in this community. Cyberstalkers often impersonate others and spread misinformation to manipulate and harass individuals. Please be vigilant when interacting with users and verify their identities. If you suspect someone is engaging in cyberstalking or impersonation, and avoid engaging with them. Your safety and well-being are important!

    +
    Clarion September 20, 2024 7:12 pm
    @EveryoneI want to address the noticeable shift in Clarion's comments over the past few exchanges. Initially, there was genuine concern about the story and its handling of sensitive themes, but more recent mess... TM joined on 1/26/20 is right

    There's more to you that meets the eye at first one would think you have come to make some valuable points but when you have ran out of ideas to cook you start shit like this

    You are pushing your points at me without understanding mine you are stuck in your head ,at first I was down for a reasonable convo it started to get annoying when I found out that I was speaking to a manipulator and a victim card puller, each points someone's makes you dismiss it as mis information or say you were mis interpreted you are lucky I still got my patience in tact

    Oh I know what you are you are not ready to reason with anybody's point but instead you'll come and act the victim, and this shit you doing "I want to tell you about Clarion's attitude" is immature it was not related to our discussion you never addressed or considered my points you talk about people always wanting to be right but instead you are talking about yourself you literally just want to be right with weak points people have already explained why this and this are wrong but you will not address what they say but instead you will repeat your points back at the person, try to gaslight by saying things like "oh you only think like that because it's just fiction" making sound like the person doesn't know what they are talking about

    Then you talk about people where attacking your friend acting like a mouthpiece for them like they can't speak for themselves when everybody was having a Convo I'm not obliged to answer the questionnaire as I originally came to see what people's answers were and some caught my attention.

    you invalidate people's answer if it doesn't fit yours they got it wrong because they don't have any knowledge on the genre and are "confusing fiction with reality" so many points have been made but you choose to ignore to do what "folks I would like to warn you about this person's behavior" come off it, you are definitely no dummy you know what you are doing very well and you understand points stated but choose to ignore.

    You purposely frustrate people so when they respond you go "oh she was being mean at me and misunderstanding me

    +
    Morning Diamonds 10/7 is right September 20, 2024 7:16 pm

    The account names ''TM'' is a fake who has groomed a 16 years old still claiming it is not pedophilia because his definition of pedophilia is 13 and below. He will put words in everyone's mouth, even the rape victim Kim Dan.

    Morning Diamonds 10/7 is right September 20, 2024 7:18 pm
    There's more to you that meets the eye at first one would think you have come to make some valuable points but when you have ran out of ideas to cook you start shit like thisYou are pushing your points at me wi... Clarion

    I have been doing this for years. And everytime I come across someone who points them out, I get threatened by you and attack you leaving out the topic at hand. I have never once refuted the actual panels of Dan getting raped, because I obviously couldn't. I would yap for 50+ replies but will conveniently leave when cornered into addressing the rape that I do my utmost to ignore.

    +
    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 20, 2024 7:19 pm
    Exactly this !!! it's broad day light gas lighting especially when they have no points to make Clarion

    It's interesting how often projection and deflection come into play when someone doesn't have real points to make. Instead of addressing the actual conversation, they resort to distorting facts and making baseless claims. it speaks more to their tactics than the truth.

    Clarion September 20, 2024 7:21 pm
    I will block you because you are another one of those users who actually reply to me and throw facts and logic. I hate it. I know Jaekyung is a rapist. I know you are correct. But what you don't know about me i... Morning Diamonds 10/7 is right

    In an intellectual argument are we not supposed to use facts and logic,you talk like I'm stalking you all over the internet or sum I don't give two shi about who you are,I reply you reply back that's how it has been going,you are right it's a very delusional idea to open an alt account to start arguments that later turn into harassing people,you are threatening that you'll block me ??? Who are you, if you knew I was right while go through all the hassle to use stupid tactics, attention seeking much

    +
    Clarion September 20, 2024 7:25 pm
    I have been doing this for years. And everytime I come across someone who points them out, I get threatened by you and attack you leaving out the topic at hand. I have never once refuted the actual panels of Da... Morning Diamonds 10/7 is right

    You have been engaging into arguments for years just to harass people with two fake accounts after all and you are proud, should we clap for you, you were never threatened nor attacked hon it's the other way around anybody can see through you

    +
    Morning Diamonds 10/7 is right September 20, 2024 7:25 pm
    In an intellectual argument are we not supposed to use facts and logic,you talk like I'm stalking you all over the internet or sum I don't give two shi about who you are,I reply you reply back that's how it has... Clarion

    Because I have no friends and talking to my alts aren't enough. I need to keep arguing with people to satisfy my socialization. Even if that means grooming a 16 years old, gaslighting and harassing users by impersonating them and being a die-hard rape apologist. All I absolutely cannot do or even acknowledge, is all the panels where Jaekyung clearly rapes Dan.

    +
    Clarion September 20, 2024 7:25 pm
    It's interesting how often projection and deflection come into play when someone doesn't have real points to make. Instead of addressing the actual conversation, they resort to distorting facts and making basel... TM joined on 1/26/20 is right

    Exactly you are an expert at such glad you finally realized

    Morning Diamonds 10/7 is right September 20, 2024 7:29 pm
    Exactly you are an expert at such glad you finally realized Clarion

    Being self aware is something I rarely do. I have too many crimes on my shoulders that if I finally admit to them, I would be on some list. But I am sick and tired of pretending that Jaekyung is just a mere ''sexual coercer'', which, before someone forced me to resort to admit coercion was at play, I used to call it just ''sexual assault not to be confused for rape''. I still deny any rape however. Just as I was forced to admit of using chatgpt.

    +
    Clarion September 20, 2024 7:31 pm
    Because I have no friends and talking to my alts aren't enough. I need to keep arguing with people to satisfy my socialization. Even if that means grooming a 16 years old, gaslighting and harassing users by imp... Morning Diamonds 10/7 is right

    Congratufuckinglations this is a first, I've seen different types of internet trolls but people who do this for satisfaction and attention, maybe go outside smell fresh air start therapy, or engage in other ways to make healthy friends online stop this shit it's 2024 don't take this attitude to 2025 maybe you would make friends

    +
    Morning Diamonds 10/7 is right September 20, 2024 7:35 pm
    Congratufuckinglations this is a first, I've seen different types of internet trolls but people who do this for satisfaction and attention, maybe go outside smell fresh air start therapy, or engage in other way... Clarion

    This is unfortunately all I know. Wake up at 4 in the afternoon, log on all my Mangago accounts, ask chatgpt to write me a counter arguments all in favor of Jaekyung, reply to all the users I started a fight with, do that until bed time at 8 in the morning. Shower is planned on every other month, although I do not keep track. I will need to find another meaning in my life once Jinx finishes. If you have any other suggestions where the ML is a rapist please share.

    +
    Clarion September 20, 2024 7:46 pm
    This is unfortunately all I know. Wake up at 4 in the afternoon, log on all my Mangago accounts, ask chatgpt to write me a counter arguments all in favor of Jaekyung, reply to all the users I started a fight wi... Morning Diamonds 10/7 is right

    This is all you know is such a weak excuse bro, don't you want to find meaning in your life there is more to life than www.mangago.zone,find something to do with your life,trust me it's worth it

    +
    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 20, 2024 7:47 pm
    Exactly you are an expert at such glad you finally realized Clarion

    Deflecting doesn't change the facts. I'm here for constructive dialogue, not games. if you're interested in an actual conversation, we can continue. Otherwise, I'm not engaging with empty accusations.
    The individual you are talking to is not who they claim to be. Engaging with them only gives them the attention they seek as they harm others including you. That individual is a cyberstalker. we do not condone their behavior of impersonating and we want to make it clear we are not affiliated with them.

    +
    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 20, 2024 7:50 pm
    Congratufuckinglations this is a first, I've seen different types of internet trolls but people who do this for satisfaction and attention, maybe go outside smell fresh air start therapy, or engage in other way... Clarion

    Clarion.
    The individual you are talking to is not who they claim to be. Engaging with them only gives them the attention they seek as they harm others including you. That individual is a cyberstalker. we do not condone their behavior of impersonating and we want to make it clear we are not affiliated with them.
    They are not trolling or a troll.

    +
    Morning Diamonds 10/7 is right September 20, 2024 7:52 pm
    This is all you know is such a weak excuse bro, don't you want to find meaning in your life there is more to life than mangago.com,find something to do with your life,trust me it's worth it Clarion

    But I have no other purpose in life when I am not harassing and insulting users on Mangago. What else can I do? I want to actually have a job and friends. But in my opinion, just as I delude myself into believing Jaekyung is not a rapist and that pedophilia is 13 and below, I also convinced myself I am a hero on Mangago and this is my reason to live. All my victims are my friends.

    +
    Morning Diamonds 10/7 is right September 20, 2024 7:53 pm

    This TM stalker is always following me, like our usernames and pfp are different. If anything, HE is the cyberstalker.

    seungho's hoe September 20, 2024 8:02 pm

    *not the first yaoi...
    I've been reading this yaoi genre for years... before this platform i used to read on batoto so I've not yet marked all my previous read manhwas.

    *i personally started reading shounen ai this year after i got sick of reading smut. i read them once ir twice in a year when my friend recommended them.

    *i cannot count that unfortunately.

    *10 years where i loved you the most, my very first bl and my very first manhwa.. i cried rivers.

    *i started with most popular and then moved to less viewed ones.

    *i ignored it after ch 20 as it was boring in my opinion then after the current season end i read it again as i disagreed with people saying jaekyung is most toxic to ever exist but still wanted to confirm my opinions before presenting them online so i read it again.

    * i would not prefer to tell my age online but i assure you I'm an adult.

    * no trauma tbh... I'm just tired of studying if that's trauma and i miss school days sometimes.

    * 5 years ( since 2019) i don't count 2024 as it hasn't ended yet.. including 2024, 6 years

    *tbh it's better, I'll give some famous example:

    ->painter of the night ( i love seungho and nakyum but seungho did many questionable things in season 1)
    ->low tide by the twilight ( he became sweet towards the end but his actions during the start and mid manhwa cannot be excused)
    ->codename Anastasia ( we all know this)
    ->roses and Champaign ( Caesar prisoned and raped the bottom for a week continuously but then turned into green flag)
    ->killing stalking ( I'd like to choose silence)

    +
    seungho's hoe September 20, 2024 8:03 pm
    The only problem is that mostly popular bl's full of r*pe which is not okay, and it's like the whole thing is normalizing in every manhwa, and it's crazy to think about that instead of well written(manhwa, mang... Chicken nuggets

    try merry marbling.. one of my fave rn

    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 20, 2024 8:26 pm
    I’m once again cautioning people against TM. As you can see, he is using the exact tactics I’ve mentioned. He has been ignoring your points and saying you’ve been misinterpreting his in order to frustrate... Akaito

    Hey everyone,
    Ignoring the cyberstalker impersonating my friend situation.


    I’m feeling a bit confused about this situation with Akaito. Akaito has made some claims and urged others not to engage with me, yet he’s also trying to interact with me on another thread [ https://www.mangago.zone/home/mangatopic/17083687/?page=1] It’s quite puzzling. I want to clarify that I haven’t spoken to him, and TM hasn’t engaged with him either. TM has not responded here since March. I changed my name from Safety Sentinel due to cyberstalkers copying it.

    I find Akaito's focus on my friends and me perplexing. Our main goal here is to foster meaningful discussions, not to engage in personal attacks. Unfortunately, some of the exchanges have turned into insults and misunderstandings, which detracts from the conversation. While differing opinions are welcome, I believe we should strive to address valid concerns without dismissing each other’s experiences.

    It’s concerning to see how this has created a tense environment. Despite his claims of being a victim, there have been moments where blame has shifted to others, leading to confusion. My friends and I have tried to engage respectfully, but we’ve often felt that aggression has taken over, making it difficult to have a genuine discussion. This has led to a reluctance to interact.

    I think it’s important for us all to reflect on how our words can impact the conversation. We want to create a space where everyone feels heard and respected. I wished would could encourage Akaito to accept his role in what happen and take responibliy for his actions. I hopw he can move forward in a more constructive way.

    Regarding our previous discussions on cyberstalking and identity issues, it’s vital for us to recognize the complexities involved. We’ve all faced challenges that deserve understanding rather than dismissal. I appreciate that tools like ChatGPT are meant to enhance communication, and I want to clarify that we write our messages ourselves; we use these tools for clarity.

    In summary, I hope we can focus on respectful dialogue and work towards a more positive environment. I believe that addressing the issues at hand can lead to more productive discussions.

    Here is some evidence:

    Part 1: https://www.mangago.zone/home/mangatopic/16678110/
    Originally, this was a debate between YourMochi and Akaito. One of my friends joined, believing Akaito was sincere. They will mention this twice, likely on pages 2 and 3. They tried to explain things to Akaito, but he responded with insults, which led to a breakdown in communication. On page 3, I warned others about Akaito based on the events from part 2. Akaito spammed me with aggressive lyrics on this and the next link. We addressed how we used ChatGPT, but misunderstandings persisted.
    https://imgur.com/cfVWtrf
    https://imgur.com/wk3AZ2t
    https://imgur.com/A78VhFs

    Part 2:
    https://www.mangago.zone/home/mangatopic/16683925/

    Another friend wrote a detailed message to Akaito, hoping for a productive discussion about his topic. Unfortunately, Akaito responded rudely, shifting the focus to personal attacks on my friend. Despite their attempts to steer the conversation back on track, my friend felt the need to protect themselves due to the aggressive nature of the responses. This led to disengagement, noted on page 2. Akaito's strong reaction is evident, but my friends and I are committed to having respectful conversations.

    In his comments, Akaito expressed a desire to press us, and the last two pages contain evidence of cyberstalkers impersonating us. While Akaito encouraged my friend to engage, he failed to acknowledge when the impersonator responded. It seemed clear that he recognized it wasn’t my friend. When accounts look similar but convey conflicting messages, it can create confusion, yet Akaito has overlooked this issue. He has been aware of the harassment we face but claims it’s something we’ve made up, despite the evidence presented.
    https://imgur.com/GJc1kC3
    https://imgur.com/w4ZZCCH
    https://imgur.com/FGEPyQx
    https://imgur.com/d1YJ4YS
    https://imgur.com/QrEhrS9
    https://imgur.com/2KAMV42
    https://imgur.com/fBUx6KG
    https://imgur.com/jD8K5VV
    https://imgur.com/EByYGCh
    https://imgur.com/XM0mbPW
    https://imgur.com/GYH1Ukh

    https://imgur.com/N8VTmyk (expressing the desire to keep "pressing" us.)


    Part 3: https://www.mangago.zone/home/mangatopic/16746982/
    This link highlights the issue of impersonation, which Akaito has seen but has sometimes dismissed. Many people can get confused by similar profiles, and it’s crucial to acknowledge that. If there are doubts about who is who, it might be helpful for all of us to clarify. He admits twice has was aggressive towards us but he does not take reposnisblity nor does he stop being aggressive.
    https://imgur.com/nVJCHBA

    Part 4:

    After reviewing the threads and the replies, it’s clear that we are targets of Akaito. In this link [ https://www.mangago.zone/home/mangatopic/17101096/], you can see Akaito's attacks directed toward many people.
    https://imgur.com/jRV0lSJ

    Additionally, more examples of his aggressive behavior can be found here: [ https://www.mangago.zone/home/mangatopic/17083687/?page=1].
    https://imgur.com/IzmWttt

    In closing, I genuinely hope we can steer this conversation toward understanding and cooperation. Let's work together to create a more constructive atmosphere.

    https://imgur.com/a/IEwZjkB

    +
    Akaito September 20, 2024 8:39 pm

    Aww, TM, you compiled a little documentary list about me? Very cute <3 I'm glad the obsession is mutual.

    Morning Diamonds 10/7 is right September 20, 2024 8:43 pm

    Imagine composing an essay all in order to avoid disproving Jaekyung being a rapist

    Morning Diamonds 10/7 is right September 20, 2024 8:44 pm

    uwu somewun wants to pwess us, so i will BE pwessed as they wanted....

    Akaito September 20, 2024 8:46 pm
    Aww, TM, you compiled a little documentary list about me? Very cute <3 I'm glad the obsession is mutual. Akaito

    Do you want to share with the class WHY I said I'd keep pressing you? Because I can and I will. Maybe you can use those busy little hands of yours to find the link to the discussion itself. I, personally, am too lazy, and don't care enough about you to do that.

    I reread the first four chapters of the webtoon because someone said I was misremembering things. I reread and took notes on what happened and came to an even stronger conclusion that what was depicted was, in fact, nonconsensual. I posted these notes and analysis several times, asking for feedback on what I was missing and/or how what I observed didn't constitute rape, and TM or his so-called "friends" I was speaking to at the time refused to engage with the notes. They only repeatedly said that I was cherry-picking things, without specifying where or why.

    +
    seungho's hoe September 20, 2024 8:49 pm
    Aww, TM, you compiled a little documentary list about me? Very cute <3 I'm glad the obsession is mutual. Akaito

    are you guys actually buddies and just having fun here... you guys are obsessed with each other so cN i have permission to ship you as a hate to love trope?
    on a serious note you both have to choices to stay silent and read your stuffs but you are still engaging with each other.
    that's cute

    +
    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 20, 2024 8:58 pm

    For anyone reading this link :
    https://www.mangago.zone/home/mangatopic/16683925/, disengagement is noted on page 2.
    His notes on page 4 were posted after no one wanted to engage with him. We acknowledge that Jinx involves nonconsensual elements, but it is not rape.

    To clarify, I have never spoken to Akaito. I am not TM; my name supports TM. TM has not communicated with Akaito.

    Given Akaito's toxic behavior, it’s understandable why we would be hesitant to engage—no one wants to face attacks

    Furthermore, Akaito has been following us since link 3 and spreading falsehoods. I hope anyone reading this recognizes that Akaito is attempting to gaslight everyone involved.

    +
    Chicken nuggets September 21, 2024 12:20 am
    try merry marbling.. one of my fave rn seungho's hoe

    RIGHT OMGGG, I FINSHED THAT TOO!!

    bangtan’s proof September 21, 2024 12:29 am
    One thing about you is you seem to really know how to use that victim card a lot , you dismiss all points and immediately go "oh I was misinterpreted or that's misinformation" it's sickening or implying that yo... Clarion

    Fact.

    To everyone reading my comments and saying that I was right or anything similar : thanks you.

    Hope everyone will have a good day/night.(▰˘◡˘▰)

    +
    Akaito September 21, 2024 12:34 am
    are you guys actually buddies and just having fun here... you guys are obsessed with each other so cN i have permission to ship you as a hate to love trope?on a serious note you both have to choices to stay sil... seungho's hoe

    We’re not, I think this guy is a fucking freak and I find him deplorable and also fascinating and also ultimately annoying. I’d like to study him under a microscope. Because I don’t know what drives someone to behave in the manner he does. Feel free to ship it, though. Much like this webtoon, I’d be interested in seeing how this type of relationship could possibly reach a healthier place. Or maybe it doesn’t. Maybe this is mutually assured destruction of the highest degree.

    This person doesn’t actually want to engage with me—at least not directly. He’s blocked me on all his multiple accounts (and don’t be mistaken—TM, MD, they’re the same one user. there’s also someone outside of them who is a troll posing as them). I’ve not blocked him. He refuses to address anything I’ve actually said, because he’s a little bitch who knows he’s wrong by even his own definition. Fine, whatever. It just so happens he’s at the scene of literally every crime I take issue with.

    +
    bangtan’s proof September 21, 2024 12:45 am
    We’re not, I think this guy is a fucking freak and I find him deplorable and also fascinating and also ultimately annoying. I’d like to study him under a microscope. Because I don’t know what drives someo... Akaito

    What the fuck did I just read.

    I don’t read a lot here and never commented before but what the hell (⊙…⊙ )

    Don’t people have lives outside of this, like going to school, work, or anything else to do?

    Anyway, it’s just people who are chronically online (and clearly, there are quite a few of them here), so don’t overthink it.

    Just ignore it, giving them too much attention won’t do any good I think !

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    Akaito September 21, 2024 12:46 am
    We’re not, I think this guy is a fucking freak and I find him deplorable and also fascinating and also ultimately annoying. I’d like to study him under a microscope. Because I don’t know what drives someo... Akaito

    I love how he’s accusing me of gaslighting people and claiming myself to be a victim in all this. I’ve not gaslit anyone about anything. I will freely and openly admit that I’ve been aggressive towards not only him, but anyone else who has continuously taken what I’ve said in bad faith. I’ve spat my own fair share of insults at people who’ve seriously pissed me off. And even then, it was only after I’d tried, repeatedly, to have a more civil conversation with them, to explain myself and where I was coming from very clearly to them, only to be insulted in turn. This guy is/was the only exception because I sensed from the get-go he was using ChatGPT to generate his shit ass brainless responses to me and others, instead of using his own arguments and his own words. And even then I tried to scale it back because he kept tone-policing me. Yeah, I’m a fucking victim—to my own inability to put this discussion down, and to other people’s ignorance. And just as much, I’m a fucking perpetrator.

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    Akaito September 21, 2024 12:58 am
    I love how he’s accusing me of gaslighting people and claiming myself to be a victim in all this. I’ve not gaslit anyone about anything. I will freely and openly admit that I’ve been aggressive towards no... Akaito

    Unlike some people on here, I actually want to understand other people’s points of views on these things. It helps me learn more about how people are thinking through different issues, points of similarities, differences, misunderstandings, etc. But just because I want to understand where someone is coming from, or that I even do understand where they’re coming from, it doesn’t mean that I then have to change my own perspective if I’ve not been given sufficient enough reason to. Especially not on something as important to me as rape and sexual assault. There is not one person on here who is going to actually be able to convince me that there is no rape depicted in this webtoon whatsoever. There are no conditions in which that will happen for me. You would have to convince me of why I should fundamentally alter my understanding of how consent is supposed to work, and you will have a very difficult time of doing that. I will absolutely acknowledge and admit to the messy complexities of certain situations, but based off of MY understanding of consent, rape, sexual assault, coercion, etc—I cannot and will not be changing my mind on what is depicted on this webtoon.

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    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 21, 2024 2:30 am

    Do you know that trolls often operate alone, while bullies tend to band together. When individuals stand up for themselves, bullies can become agitated because they no longer receive the validation they seek.

    Faced with new perspectives that challenge their views, they may double down out of fear of being wrong. This collective mindset can create a hive mentality, where they echo each other's beliefs—even if those beliefs are unfounded. Also, where they conflate multiple voices into a single entity, often portraying them as one person when feeling threatened.

    In such situations, hostility can escalate tensions, particularly toward those who oppose them. This distraction can detract from the main discussion, with bullies claiming their opponents lack arguments when they struggle to counter them. They might assert a desire to understand different perspectives, yet this is often undermined by their unwillingness to genuinely engage with counterarguments or reflect on how their communication style impacts others. While holding firm beliefs is important, this rigidity can close off avenues for constructive dialogue and understanding.

    Akaito’s behavior exemplifies this dynamic. He acknowledges his aggression but frames it as a reaction to perceived bad faith from others. This defensive stance shifts responsibility away from himself, avoiding accountability for how his words may affect the conversation. His comments about cyberstalkers imply that the concerns of others are unfounded, yet the presence of such individuals on multiple threads cannot be dismissed.


    Moreover, both Bangtan and Clarion’s responses have taken on a more personal tone, leading to an environment where their targets can feel compelled to defend against accusations rather than engage in productive dialogue. This shift further detracts from the possibility of addressing the core issues.

    Ultimately, fostering an environment where everyone feels heard requires an openness to dialogue and a willingness to reflect on one’s own approach. Recognizing the impact of intimidation tactics, personal attacks, and rigid thinking is crucial for restoring a constructive atmosphere.

    By reducing the discussion to black-and-white terms—like “rape” vs. “not rape”—people miss the opportunity for a deeper exploration of the complex themes involved. The conversation has strayed from its original intent, with personal grievances taking precedence over the initial debate topics. This shift can stifle meaningful discussions about the themes at hand.

    I encourage everyone to consider how our communication styles impact one another.
    I urge all participants to approach future discussions with a mindset of respect and understanding

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    seungho's hoe September 21, 2024 7:16 am
    We’re not, I think this guy is a fucking freak and I find him deplorable and also fascinating and also ultimately annoying. I’d like to study him under a microscope. Because I don’t know what drives someo... Akaito

    Clarion September 21, 2024 12:05 pm
    Do you know that trolls often operate alone, while bullies tend to band together. When individuals stand up for themselves, bullies can become agitated because they no longer receive the validation they seek. F... TM joined on 1/26/20 is right

    Don't you dare you talk about people referring to personal attacks instead of the argument at hand but that is exactly what you are doing

    I just realized I wasted my time,big time I thought it was a normal mangago user ready to reason but it's actually a little creep with multiple accounts,I've discovered that when you get into arguments with people you end it with a Convo about cyber stalking with on of your accounts you use " your friend" but you have like 4 other accounts, people don't fall prey to this guy

    You are bored don't you have a life don't you have things to live for,Are you love starved it most feel horrible coming to troll people online with 4 more other accounts,you should be ashamed,GET A LIFE!!!,I can't take this shit seriously mehn GET A FUCKING LIFE touch grass breathe air,engage in a hobby,get a job contribute to society stop wasting your time on earth

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    MD joined on 10/7/23 is right September 21, 2024 12:48 pm
    Do you know that trolls often operate alone, while bullies tend to band together. When individuals stand up for themselves, bullies can become agitated because they no longer receive the validation they seek. F... TM joined on 1/26/20 is right

    I’m really proud of how you handled yourself, especially in the face of such unwarranted attacks. It's clear that none of what clarion or Akaito said was about you or your points—it’s a reflection of their own frustration and inability to engage with what you were actually saying. You articulated your points thoughtfully and with care, while their reaction shows a lack of that same self-awareness. They’ve become what they claim to hate, as their behavior completely undermines the points they’re trying to make. It’s good to remember that their behavior says more about them than it does about us. Stay strong, and keep standing by what you believe in.

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    MD joined on 10/7/23 is right September 21, 2024 1:07 pm
    I don’t think all media should be “morally correct” if anything itd make stuff boring, what i was trying to say is that an entire literary industry shouldn’t normalize things like for example sexual ass... Robot_rabbit1234

    Thanks for your thoughtful response, I really appreciate it.

    I want to clarify that the user [morning diamonds 10/9 is right] is not me. We do not condone their behavior of cyberstalking, impersonating us, or harming others. It’s easy to tell we are different people by how we write or simply by checking the profiles. I only have replies on page 1 and page 5.

    Back to your message:

    I completely understand the concern about normalizing harmful behaviors like sexual assault in certain genres, especially within the BL community. These themes can influence how people perceive the community, and we should be mindful of that.

    I agree that toxic dynamics, particularly involving sexual assault, shouldn’t be normalized. However, whether something is being 'normalized' versus 'explored' often depends on the context and how the story is framed. Just because a narrative includes problematic behavior doesn’t automatically mean it’s promoting or endorsing it—sometimes it’s about exploring the complexity of those situations.

    Dark romance tends to follow patterns that are often unrealistic. That said, how characters respond to traumatic events in stories does matter. If harmful actions are constantly brushed aside or romanticized without any consequences, that’s certainly a problem. However, interpretations can differ—for example, just because someone views an event, like a soda being poured on a character's head, as sexual assault doesn’t mean the storyline supports that interpretation. Sometimes abuse is misunderstood or misread in the narrative.

    We can still hold fiction to a high standard for portraying sensitive issues, while acknowledging that fiction is often a space where difficult, messy topics are explored.

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    MD joined on 10/7/23 is right September 21, 2024 1:48 pm
    You can’t always use the excuse of ‘exploring complex people and relationships’ to justify the poor handling of these topics by certain authors. There’s a clear tendency among them (including this one) ... bangtan’s proof

    Hey everyone, after my friend read the reply, I took the time to read it as well, and I couldn’t help but shake my head.

    While Bangtan seems to address my points, their response is from a narrow perspective shaped by an echo chamber. What's missed here is that I disengaged from the conversation with Bangtan after their first sentence. I expressed concern about being misrepresented and made it clear that I don’t support trivializing sexual assault. As an SA survivor, this was a valid response when I felt attacked or misunderstood.

    Rather than engaging with my concerns in good faith, they accused me of manipulation, dismissed my feelings, and fixated on one comment I made elsewhere, viewing it through a narrow lens. **For example:** Bangtan claims that when Jaekyung pours soda on Dan, it’s sexual assault. I said that it’s harassment and abuse, not sexual assault. However, they seemed more focused on feeling superior and degrading me for simply stating the truth. Correctly labeling something doesn’t make me "disgusting" or dismiss Dan’s experience—it means I’m being precise. Mislabeling it both harassment and SA can dilute the seriousness of both harassment and sexual assault, making it harder to address them appropriately.

    Instead of recognizing that other perspectives are valid, Bangtan’s condescending behavior, particularly toward an SA survivor, undermines their argument. Their hostile tone and agreement with falsehoods only contribute to creating a toxic environment.

    They implied that by not responding to every single point, I was being dishonest or evasive. But the reality is that I was protecting myself. If I responded to all their points that addressed my points, my reply would have been empty, unless I tried to explain what I meant. Their accusations are dismissive and lack empathy, ignoring the personal and sensitive nature of my position.

    Ultimately, they’re not engaging with my main point about how fiction can responsibly explore dark themes. If this type of narrative is removed, we risk losing many stories that provide an escape from reality. They’re fighting the wrong battle—claiming to stand against SA and rape in fiction while failing to show respect or empathy toward actual survivors. Instead, they fixate on perceived inconsistencies and make assumptions about my intentions, accusing both me and my friend of manipulation. This shows they’re not interested in dialogue, but in asserting a moral high ground while disregarding valid concerns.

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    MD joined on 10/7/23 is right September 23, 2024 9:20 pm

    The user above is NOT me. It is my cyberstalker obsessed with me and my alt accounts. It is easy to spot him as he is a rape defender and shameless user of Chatgpt. My role is to warn everyone about the cyberstalkers. My friends and I have been trying to create a safe environment here to where all opinions are welcomed, and we want to clarify that we have no part in the toxicity on this page—it occurs regardless of our presence.

    Since you hold a different viewpoint, you may become a target, as they tend to target perspectives they dislike. We attempted to resolve the situation, but they insist we label it as rape or remain silent. We stand to protect people like you.

    Moving this conversation to a different platform wouldn't help remove this toxicity. We have not been engaging with them; our focus has been on warning others. I want to prevent anyone else from getting dragged into this, which is why I speak out.

    I am not part of the main group. I seen what was happening and I joined to defend people who have been defending Jinx fans and people with opinions like you for months. It’s not just a few individuals—it’s a widespread issue. The group behind this is everywhere on this site.

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    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 23, 2024 11:06 pm
    Hey everyone, after my friend read the reply, I took the time to read it as well, and I couldn’t help but shake my head. While Bangtan seems to address my points, their response is from a narrow perspective s... MD joined on 10/7/23 is right

    This post is from the real MD joined 10/7/23 is right.
    The other one is trying to pretend to be them as they spread falsehoods.
    The targets will be trying to engage with you and warn you but the cyberstalkers will be creating a negative and toxic place while spreading falsehoods to harm their targets and you as they pretend to be us.

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    TM joined on 1/26/20 is right September 23, 2024 11:12 pm
    I’m really proud of how you handled yourself, especially in the face of such unwarranted attacks. It's clear that none of what clarion or Akaito said was about you or your points—it’s a reflection of thei... MD joined on 10/7/23 is right

    Thank you for the reply. It's a shame to see them resort to the same overused insults that only reflect their behavior while trying to target others. It shows a lack of genuine engagement and understanding.

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Nky022 September 11, 2024 10:19 pm

They made him so freaking hot to confuse us about his toxic behavior (╯°Д °)╯╧╧, unfortunately for Tay, he's surrounded by narcissist and psychopaths love interests cause XinLu isn't that better, he just have a cute beauty instead of hot handsome face like Ilay to fool us.

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_MangaGirl98 January 31, 2016 4:05 pm

Can i please have some recommendations of romance mangá just like Victorian Romance Emma or just Emma

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Which country are you from? 08-24 20:48

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