Nico peepeepoopoo's Topics (20)

sorry i meant to like T.T

nawww deadass, this story make me mad

That's a mood. I'm pretty much just waiting for them to acknowledge that what occurred in that locker room, and what is still occurring is rape. But I'm probably waiting for nothing. （￣へ￣）

It was a coaching staff roo,, and anyone with a brain knows it was rape, Gabe. You don't need to wait, but with a theme of self-realization and transformation, you can't expect Black to stay black and white to stay white. It's gotten gray. I'm betting you can live with that.

*room

When it comes to the location does it really matter? It's a similar area, so similar verbage. I was able to get my point across here since you were able to point that out and correct me. In regards to your comment about the assault; I was referring to the characters in the story because it has not been acknowledged within the story. With a background in criminal justice and victimology, I see things with a certain perspective relative to those subjects. Of course it is fiction, but I am just telling it how I am seeing it. Nothing more nothing less. I truly do not understand what you are trying to say in your last sentence or your motivation behind stating it, but based on the direction of the story so far, that is my prediction; and I am definitely entitled to my own opinions on the matter. Things within the story going forward can change, but what has already occurred cannot. There is no gray in respect to that. I'm guessing that what you are trying to say is that the swimmer's history (I forget his name) is a mitigating factor. But like I said before, there is no gray area here. Because his history does not change his actions.

I wasn't correcting you! I was giving you some information! why'd you have to take it that way? I thought it was interesting that Lee Kang was in the coaching staff room, writing on the dry erase board when Junho confronted him.
There hasn't been an appropriate moment by which acknowledgement of the rape would service the plot.
It is as valid for me to see this from a writing position as it is for you to see it from a victimology position. That's my point.
You originally spoke briefly on a feeling level. I said what I said on a feeling level. Flipping it over into a strictly factual arena is not very sporting of you, is it?
Anyway, I was referring to the way the character's feelings are going from black and white to shades of gray, nothing else, certainly not guilt and innocence.
Lee Kang can't unrape Junho. I've never said he could. More than that, the law is useless in this situation so I'm not thinking in those terms.
On a human level I do think Lee Kang's background modifies the circumstances, but my thinking isn't the same as the other commenters. Lee Kang's background can be considered right alongside the rape at this point. The rules and laws lost relevance as soon as the cops weren't called. I don't think in terms of right and wrong.
Junho has to find his way through a thicket of ideas about forgiveness, acceptance, and finding a decent work-around for the rape.
Your self-evident right to your opinion is a truth that was never in question, why beat me over the head with it?
By the way, I believe it is possible to change the past. I'm just that much of a metaphysics head.

I took it that way as soon as you said "anyone with a brain can see it was rape" and "I'm betting you can live with that". The meaning behind those comments wouldn't change even if we were speaking in person. It's passive aggressive and demeaning.

Bringing it back to a factual level is relevant here because that's what I was referencing from the beginning. My prediction based on something factual. I believe you're misunderstanding my last point in my previous comment. I wasn't implying that you were saying that what is done can be undone, and what you were saying about law.

What I meant by mitigating factor wasn't in literal reference to the courts. But a circumstance that modifies the degree of blame in the situation (on a human level as you have put it). I figured that this is what you were talking about so we were on the same page there. But to repeat my point in a slightly clearer way: his history does not change the impact of his actions. Because that impact to the other party doesn't disappear when you learn about someone's (Lee Lang's) trauma. And it doesn't change that the act itself was wrong. In the end, rape is rape.

If this story was about the complexity of Junho's internal conflict of mind and forgiveness and acceptance, it would have been written with that same degree of complexity. And for that to happen, there would have to be acknowledgement of something "bad" happening. That bad thing being rape and the detrimental impact it can have on a person's psyche. And so from a writing position, that acknowledgement would add to the plot in my opinion. It could really enhance the story and give the characters more depth. Junho's behavior and state of mind wouldn't even have to do a 180 for that to happen either. Lol. It just had to be acknowledged. But this story is not that complex or multifaceted. But it is what it is. I'm sure we could just agree to disagree on this point.

I'll probably continue to read it just to see what happens but those are my thoughts on it.

To clarify in my 3rd paragraph:
* Degree of blame isn't how I would like to put it, but it's the only word I can think of right now.

*In the end, rape is rape no matter who does it, their "reasoning", or history/trauma. No tolerance for rapists and their crimes in this household.

"anyone with a brain" is a validation of you. you say it's rape and there's no changing that fact. I'm agreeing, saying "yes it's true, obvious, and not something to be challenged."
"I'm betting you can live with that" is me thinking you have abilities to adapt to things going by the attitude I sensed in your original post.
but if you choose to take it as hostile, demeaning... ... I don't know. communication difficulty. I resent "passive aggressive" I'm pretty up front, and I can be aggressive.
not my best side.... but passive aggressive isn't me.
You say the meaning of those comments can't change. that's pretty rigid

I don't like it when people keep saying and assuming that I'm excusing crimes when I've never said that.
You say the following as if the two are inextricably bound:
In the end, rape is rape no matter who does it, their "reasoning", or history/trauma. No tolerance for rapists and their crimes in this household.

I don't agree at all. I say yes it's rape, but your "no, tolerance" stance to my way of thinking and for my own personal self is profoundly wrong. The lack of ability to grant grace to our fellow men is among our most serious flaws as a society and as individuals.
here has to be room for everyone's soul to be saved eventually - and I'm not speaking in the religious sense. Especially, having this iron fist that it's not just you but those in your home, too, not being allowed to think on their own, and don't have a right to process their own thoughts and arrive at their own morality.
"In the end, rape is rape no matter who does it, their "reasoning", or history/trauma. No tolerance for rapists and their crimes in this household." I can't disagree more.

Having to acknowledge a wrong is exactly the way I always felt, until a freight train in the form of two of my most beloved family members let me know most emphatically that you don't have to call to mind every situation where things went wrong and hash it out talk about it, forgive and forget... etc. sometimes it's better to let the past stay in the past. I also learned in life that sometimes expressing anger make more anger, not the other way around.
No, I don't think Junho has to insist on the two of them facing the rape head on. I think this is within the author's premise

The phrase "in this household", is actually just a meme reference, there's not really much meaning behind it. But I wanted to make my thoughts on the matter clear because I felt in my writing that I didn't. I also don't have a household to push my beliefs onto. Heretofore, there is nothing that I have implied that I haven't plainly said.

But as I've said before, there are no excuses for rape because it doesn't change the act itself. I've said this same thing in similar ways, but at this point, I don't have any more ways that I can define it to sum all of it up. It's like this: a person holds a watermelon and drops it off the balcony. The watermelon exploded, but what is on the ground is still watermelon.

Sure, people can make mistakes and sometimes those mistakes don't always warrant consequences but reminders. At times it can be a case-by-case thing because sometimes second chances are warranted. Discretion can be an important thing. But rape is different because it's about power and there's a lot of intention behind that. And most rapists are serial rapists. These are people who choose to continually enact violence on others. It is a very traumatic, lonely, and violating experience that a lot of people in our society fail to fully understand. Not to mention the way that rape victims are treated.

I do believe people can change and reflect on the things they've done, but it doesn't change their past actions (to expand for simplicity's sake: if someone commits a crime, goes to prison, is rehabilitated, and doesn't reoffend, they should be able to go on with their lives just like anyone else in society). Reflection and change are the keywords here. A good example of a webtoon like this is BJ Alex. Ahn Jiwon treated Nam Dong-yun like shit at the beginning. Just all around awful behavior. They eventually broke up/took a break and Jiwon realized that the way he treated Dong-yun was wrong. He came to this realization, acknowledged and admitted it, and he grew as a character. And yet he still knew that he could never really make up or apologize enough for the things that he had done to Dong-yun. Jiwon's past didn't change the wrongs that he committed. If he didn't identify and acknowledge his behavior, he would've stayed the same. The only way you can change is to acknowledge that something needs to be changed in the first place. Things like that can't just be glossed over, otherwise the same mistakes will be made. On another note, it is definitely possible to discuss issues in a relationship in a calm and cordial manner. Miscommunication and a lack of communication lead to misunderstandings. If a person can't communicate issues within a relationship, that relationship might just be an unhealthy one. This is also from my own experience.

To go back to Lee Kang; he hasn't done anything that has shown admittance of his wrongdoings or modification of his behavior. He is still continuing to do the same things. Granted, there aren't as many episodes in Put a Smile On, therefore less development (supposedly). But I don't think it's even going to get to that point. It's like the whole premise of everything that is happening in this storyline is that what has been occurring thus far isn't rape. Nobody has acknowledged it, Junho seems unrealistically unaffected (we have access to his thoughts, behavior, and the rest of his life), and no one is realizing how serious this situation is. The TA is even threatening Junho with the video recording that sure as heck doesn't look like sex with consent, as if he is going to be more harmed by it than Lee Kang. Like Junho was somehow in the wrong. To backtrack a bit, every victim of rape does not necessarily act the same, however. I've had people disclose to me in a very calm, "as a matter of fact" manner, some who's emotions were more exaggerated and running high such as crying, others who were in shock, others who have laughed about it while they were telling me, and some who didn't know what happened to them. But there is always some sort of disruption in their life following the assault. This is not the case in this webtoon. If the author wanted to convey that this entire situation is a negative one, and that rape is wrong, they maybe would've done some research, but there definitely would have been some evidence of the concept in the storyline. A decent example is Back to School, a more complex storyline with character depth. There has been nothing so far in this webtoon and I've got the feeling right now that they've missed their chance. So that was definitely not a point that the author was trying to convey.

I'd also like compare Put a Smile on to Royal Servant. In Royal Servant, it was kinda sorta acknowledged that there was rape and sexual assault occuring in the relationship, but in the end not only did the story seem to convey that what was occurring within Kyon's and Lucaon's relationship was okay, it was romantic, although it originally started off in the right direction. What I'm saying is that there is something missing between point A and point C in these two manwha.

There's a difference between stories with abuse that are tragic to show a messed up situation (Killing Stalking); stories that contain abusers who change (which also don't excuse their wrongs); and stories where rape and abuse is romanticized and the significance of the abuse is completely ignored. With my very original comment, I was predicting that this manwha is going to be the last-mentioned type, and I'm not a fan of that. Sure, Lee Kang and Junho's feelings about each other can change. And the author can most definitely do whatever they want with their work, but if the story continues in the direction it's going right now, it's still going to be a manwha where rape and abuse is romanticized and the significance of the abuse is completely ignored.

@quicksilver

*

okay, sorry. I pictured a house full of children in straight jackets. lol.
-All I'm asking is what you said. Case by case basis. Sometimes second chances are warranted, and as for my beliefs, innocent until proven guilty.
I think it's fine to not be a fan of what you mentioned as romanticized rape. What shocks me is the people talking about passing laws against freedom of speech, and leaning on artists.
What I like about this story is its complete removal from reality. LOL No one reacts naturally. I love that.
There's something about the story that attracts me, and I'm not needing to pull that apart and look at the psychology of it. I like it that Junho is not in a tragic state because honestly I liked the rape scenes, but not strictly because it was rape. The sensuality of the art - this has an unusual quality that I find erotic. It wouldn't be that much fun if Junho suffered and was ruined by it his experiences. lol he bounces right back all unnaturally. lol.
I'm not big on rape in entertainment. I don't seek it out, but I do think that if someone gets some pleasure or relief from reading such stories, there's nothing wrong with adults enjoying whatever they like. I can't believe that there's people who actually don't see any benefit in such materials.
The author has left so many hints and clues about the various characters, too, that don't pop out at you. I like that, too.
The idea that it's wrong to write about evil deeds unless you show the evil consequences, makes me want to tear peoples heads off - I mean the ones who are dead serious about putting bans on such materials. I LIKE it that the significances of the abuse is not shown. I don't want to see that significance unless I'm watching Shawshank Redemption or The Green Mile, two movies I love.
One thing that is taught in college level writing classes is that it's important not to start out with a message - it's called a theme in writing but everyone ignores its real definition. Don't start with a message. If you have a message, your writing will arrive at it, but starting out to teach people a lesson in life how you get preachy, horrible fiction.
I think it's fine not to like it or to disapprove, but no one has the right to shut it down. that's my opinion. It's very nice discussing this with you. much appreciated

Thanks for this explanation. I can definitely see where you're coming from. And I'm also glad we could discuss it. Lol

I miss the glow sticks I'm literally crying (╯°Д °)╯╧╧

I literally jumped when I saw the uncensored pp, I was not expecting that djsjsjaj

IKR AWHAGSJSH But I ain’t rlly complaining •3•