Who do you trust?
Anoni Grrl October 14, 2015 11:22 pm

It seems like one of the issues Aki has been dealing with lately is the question of whom to trust. He is starting to see that Asami has enemies everywhere and that he (Aki) may be too trusting.

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v07/c044/4/

Since none of us are as gifted as Asami, I was wondering what makes readers trust certain characters, given that almost everyone had both good and bad qualities? I too,tend to think I can tell by looking, but what if the "bad" character is just drawn that way (to paraphrase Jessica Rabbit).


For example, I trust Kirishima, even though the first time we see him (I think) he is beating up on Aki.

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v01/c001/6/

Kirishima has never apologized to Aki. In fact, Kirishima is always giving Aki a hard time.

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v07/c041/10/


But I trust Kirishima. He seems loyal to Asami, and competent, and besides, those glasses are hot. Maybe once I have seen a guy in an apron hanging up underwear, it is hard for me to see him as a bad guy.

Mikhail on the other hand, actually speaks politely to Aki (well, as much as he can), and does not personally hurt Aki (though he is responsible). I trust Fei, but not Mikhail. Why? Maybe it's because of Yuri, but and maybe it's because Mikhail double crossed both Fei and Asami. Maybe it's the hair. Mikhail has suspicious hair.

It's not just a question of whether or not I like the character either. I like many characters who are untrustworthy tricksters. I also trust some I dislike. For example, I think Ai is a weak idiot who exists primarily to be rescued, but I trust that she believes what she says, even if she is not very bright.

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v06/c033/4/

If it taste strange, don't drink it. You're a pop star--they will get you fresh tea. Sorry. I keep forgetting they pay no attention to my good advice. Anyway, she's cute and girlie and I think she means no harm. But I instantly distrusted Aya/Mayu from this picture:

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v07/c036/11/

I think the way she hangs on his arm and looks up at the old goat has to be an act. And when I see her do it to Aki here, I think she is a total snake and want to smack immediately.

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v07/c045/15/

So why would I trust Kirishima and Ai, and even Fei, but distrust Mikhail, Sudou and Aya/Mayu? More importantly, why do you trust or distrust certain characters (because I know many of you disagree with me).

What would you tell Aki is if asked you how you knew whom to trust?

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    Reality bites October 15, 2015 2:06 am

    I would tell Takaba that trust is earned, not given esp. in his position as Asami's partner. people will try to cultivate him to get close to Asami's money and or power or use him. Takaba will have to be careful from now on. I would tell him to trust Asami and his close men until those men prove otherwise. Asami's half brother (Kuroda) took a bullet for Takaba as did Kirishima , he can trust them.

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    Anoni Grrl October 15, 2015 2:58 am
    I would tell Takaba that trust is earned, not given esp. in his position as Asami's partner. people will try to cultivate him to get close to Asami's money and or power or use him. Takaba will have to be carefu... @Reality bites

    That's great advice. I think it makes sense to trust Asami's judgment too. Oh, and thanks for buying into my theory, even if I could be wrong.

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    INeedYaoiToSurvive October 15, 2015 7:32 am

    Kirishima is loyal to Asami and gives hard time to Aki because Aki is a troublemaker. Kirishima wants Aki to act as Asami wants at time.

    Mikhail on the other hand seems polite but I think its just the surface, like the saying goes 'Don't judge the book by its cover'. I think there is something really cunning underneath.

    Ai looks kinda dumb to me but she isn't harmful to Aki.

    With Fei long,its Lima syndrome so now I can trust him to some level.

    Aki doesn't know how to judge people accurately and this results into some incidents. He is naive, he accepted drink from Aya, he should have sensed that something is off. In the extra too he accepted a chocolate with stimulated ingredients and did other things.

    At first, I was suspicious of Kuroda because he was rude to Aki and seemed to look down on him. But as it turned out that Asami trusted Kuroda so my opinion changed about him.

    I agree with Reality bites, Aki can trust Asami's men. I don't think Aki can decide on his own whom to trust at times. In the start of the manga he also trusted Detective Yamazaki only to be betrayed later on.

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    Reality bites October 15, 2015 10:30 am

    I think at this point, Fei long has no evil intent toward either of them. He is off living his life. I think the writer herself finds that Hong Kong arc to high a huddle to bring him back into the story in any significant way. (p That novel was her way of sending him off. Of course I could be wrong. The one thing about Fei's personality is that he is loyal and he would be to Takaba and Asami now. Aside from being a cold blooded killer for his father Lui Fei Long had many issues. Being around him may be more dangerous than being around Asami. His enemies really are nasty, so trust is not the problem.

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    Anoni Grrl October 15, 2015 2:26 pm
    I think at this point, Fei long has no evil intent toward either of them. He is off living his life. I think the writer herself finds that Hong Kong arc to high a huddle to bring him back into the story in any ... @Reality bites

    Fei would need his own spin off, and she seems too busy to do that. :) Maybe he could team up with Asami against the Russians, but I don't know.We have a lot of players on the field now.

    Mikhail thinks a good way to flirt with Fei is to take his casino. Well, Fei thought a good way to flirt with Asami is to take Aki, so maybe it isn't as crazy as its seems. Even Asami thinks bondage and rape are ways to woo a new love. Haven't any of these guys heard of flower, chocolate...maybe dinner and a movie?

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    Anoni Grrl October 15, 2015 2:30 pm
    Kirishima is loyal to Asami and gives hard time to Aki because Aki is a troublemaker. Kirishima wants Aki to act as Asami wants at time.Mikhail on the other hand seems polite but I think its just the surface, l... INeedYaoiToSurvive

    I agree about Kirishima. He scolds like an auntie because he wants Aki to reflect well on Asami and not cause Asami trouble. In manga, rich men's sectaries often seem to discipline the children too, or take on some kind of mentor role. You know, the son is messing up in university, and teh secretary comes and dominates the so until the son falls in love andgets good grades to please the secretary. The secretaries are also often proficients fighters and marksmen. Damn,but secretaries in Japan work hard.

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    INeedYaoiToSurvive October 15, 2015 6:59 pm
    I agree about Kirishima. He scolds like an auntie because he wants Aki to reflect well on Asami and not cause Asami trouble. In manga, rich men's sectaries often seem to discipline the children too, or take on ... Anoni Grrl

    True that. But I think, secretaries, in general, work hard. They feel like its their duty to discipline brats so that their boss would live an easy life, even if it creates not much of a difference.

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    Eye candy October 16, 2015 12:39 am

    Kirishima and Suoh intentions are honorable toward Asami true and true, that is why I trust them.

    I trust and distrust Yoh cause he carried out Asami plans to the end in spite of his feeling for Fei (trust) and at the same time betraying the one he love(distrust). As a reader, I do understand his situation.It would be completely trust from me if the cupid didn't shoot his arrow on Yoh butt.

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More than words
Anoni Grrl October 13, 2015 3:44 pm

What is your favorite gesture or nonverbal communication between these characters?

I think one of my favorite nonverbal expressions of affection in this couple is when Asami ruffles Aki's hair. It starts when Asami feels empathy for Aki at the end of the first story.

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v01/c001/35/

Of course it start to happen with intimacy

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v03/c009/27/

But it is also something Asami uses when he does not have words

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v05/c030/13/

It happens more when they embrace as their relationship develops.

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v06/c035/4/

Sometimes Aki returns the gesture

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v06/c035.4/1/

But but is most often Asami

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v07/c036/4/

It can mean Asami is amused

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v07/c039/14/


We don't really see it when Asami is angry or being dominant. It is something Asami tends to do when he feels close to Aki.

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v08/c049/13/

For me, it is one of the ways Asami expresses love

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v08/c050/11/


So, if you clicked on all that, do you have other gestures or looks you enjoy? You don't have to link every instance. I like to go back and find certain things.

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Groupthink v. Robust Discussion
Anoni Grrl October 7, 2015 2:43 pm

One of the themes explored by this chapter is the role of a group mentality and the diffusion of responsibility in a closed social system. I think one element that makes that work is that no one can speak up or have a dissenting opinion, or else they become a target. While I don't think this in any way justifies personal decisions to abuse in the name of "protection", I do think it is worth looking at this dynamic.

Sometimes even on the Internet, people can become mobs. We pass around something that outrages us. Maybe it is something that should outrage us, maybe not. The problem arises when we move beyond discussions and start to attack people and try to shut down others' opinions.

No one should be targeted because we feel upset about something. It doesn't matter if the attack is on a fan with a "stewpid" opinion or on a Mangaka or publisher. It shouldn't even happen to a politician (though they kind of deserve it). What matters is that instead of talking about ideas, a group of people find a target and go after a person or group of people.

I'm not sure what to do about this. I tend to think the answer lies in discussing what is happening and trying to convince people to focus on ideas, but then I would. I'm a wordy girl.

Someone posted earlier about how people were Tweeting Ogawa Chise nasty comments in all caps after chapter 8. To me, this crosses the line between discussion and attack. This isn't a reason to target people here or to stop discussions, but it is something to object to.

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Let's focus on what's important.
Anoni Grrl October 7, 2015 3:10 am

What do you guys think happened between Karino and Asuza before this page:

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/caste_heaven/bt/c009/pg-34/

Azusa was not in the room when everyone was talking about punishing him. When Asuza comes in, he shares a look with Karino. Asuza says "that" (whatever it was) will not defeat him. Karino says Asuza looks better than Karino thought. So what did Karino just make Asuza do? And why would Asuza look more messed up? Or maybe Asuza was attractive to others somehow? I really hope it's just a sex toy or something. I don't want to think Krino continues making Asuza go with others as punishment. Whatever it was, I am glad Asuza is still defiant.

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    Yade October 7, 2015 8:28 am

    karinocares ( in his own way) for asuza .if he just wanted him to be f***ed by others he would had let them the first day he was a target alone and get caught by the mob. i guess he was rough in sex with him , so he said he looks better than he tought.

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    Anoni Grrl October 7, 2015 1:53 pm
    karinocares ( in his own way) for asuza .if he just wanted him to be f***ed by others he would had let them the first day he was a target alone and get caught by the mob. i guess he was rough in sex with him ... @Yade

    I hope your are right. I have a hard time reconciling that with chapter 8 though. To me, once Karino went there, it is hard to believe he cares at all. Maybe Karino was keeping the others back at first, but as of chapter 8 all bets are off in my mind.

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    Anonymous October 9, 2015 2:51 am

    I think the "that" that Asuza was referring to was the foursome.

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    Anoni Grrl October 9, 2015 4:00 am
    I think the "that" that Asuza was referring to was the foursome. @Anonymous

    Maybe, but wasn't chapter 8 some time ago? How long did Atsumu skip school?

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    Anonymous October 13, 2015 7:47 pm
    Maybe, but wasn't chapter 8 some time ago? How long did Atsumu skip school? Anoni Grrl

    Chap 9 started where chap 8 ended.
    http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/caste_heaven/bt/mi_chapter-8/pg-35/
    http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/caste_heaven/bt/c009/pg-6/
    Notice Atsumu and Kuze's same position.

    http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/caste_heaven/bt/c009/pg-7/
    Page 7 showed students saying that Atsumu didn't come to school AGAIN. This means that he had already been absent the day prior this scene and was still absent (around 2 days). It also says that he came back to school a WEEK later from that same school day. He was gone for more than 5 days.

    I also believe that the "that" that Azusa and Karino were talking about was the foursome. It was implied that during the time when Atsumu missed school, Karino left Azusa alone (5% feeling guilty, 95% messing with Azusa's head). SEE CHAP 9 PAGE 6 BOTTOM PANEL.

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    Anoni Grrl October 14, 2015 12:35 am
    Chap 9 started where chap 8 ended.http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/caste_heaven/bt/mi_chapter-8/pg-35/http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/caste_heaven/bt/c009/pg-6/Notice Atsumu and Kuze's same position. http://ww... @Anonymous

    I should have made it clearer that I meant its been a some time between the end of chapter 8 and the time when Asuza walks in and refers to "that". You are correct that Chapter 9 begins with one panel that reflects the end of chapter 8. The first panel is when chapter 8 ended--but by the second panel it has been a day at least, and by the time Asuza comes and mentions "that" it's been a week--as you say.

    Why would Azusa refer to "that" so vaguely week later as if it just happened?

    How is implied that Karino left Azusa alone for a week? To me, it seems like this chapter is about Kuze and his bunny fetish, so we don't see what Kuze doesn't see. I looked at the panel you mentioned again, and all I see is that in class, people have their masks back on, but Kuze's mask is slipping because he's not getting any. Karino is faced one way, we see the back of Azusa's head, and Kuze is facing another way. This foreshadows the mood between Karino and Kuze, which is no longer so friendly. As you see on the next page, Karino gets a dig in about visiting Atsumu--perhaps in revenge for the time Kuze sent Azusa to Karino's house.

    I think this chapter is about Kuze and his relationships. Kuze doesn't care about Azusa. Kuze had been friends with Karino, but now that is strained, as seen in that panel. That panel doesn't say anything really about Karino and Aszua. Just because Karino and Azusa are not talking or looking at each other in class doesn't mean they don't do anything outside of class. Karino often ignores Azusa in class.

    http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/caste_heaven/bt/262499/Ch3/9/

    Karino pops up if someone else talks to Azusa, but they are not holding hands and making cow-eyes at each other.

    http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/caste_heaven/bt/262499/Ch3/10/

    Karino ignores Azusa in front of others. It doesn't mean Karino isn't doing anything.

    http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/caste_heaven/bt/262499/Ch3/14/

    Most of their interactions take place outside of class and away from others.

    http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/caste_heaven/bt/274923/Ch4/5/

    A room that in a regular school would be reserved for faculty seems to belong to the "king" in this class, and that's where they spend most of their quality time.

    It may turn out that you are right, but it just doesn't make sense to me that Karino is going to give up sex for a week for any reason.

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This has potential
Anoni Grrl October 6, 2015 10:48 pm

So far, I like the characters and how the plot is developing. Some of the initial art is very intriguing.

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Cycle of Abuse
Anoni Grrl October 6, 2015 4:06 pm

Although I know the difference between manga and RL, I think the Kuze/Aysumu story demonstrates the cycle of abuse, and leaves us with the false impression of a happy ending by stopping the story in the "honeymoon" phase. People who work with domestic violence victims have identified a pattern many of these relationships go through called the cycle of abuse. First, there is a tension building phase where the couple starts to have little issues (like making your partner feel vulnerable or controlling whom they talk to--see chapter 7). This is followed by acute abuse--battery or rape or something horrible (chapter 8). Then there is a honeymoon phase, where the partner acts sorry and makes grand gestures to win back the abused person (chapter 9). This is the most loving and addictive part of the relationship. However, in time, tension builds again and another episode of abuse is inevitable. The more the abused person believes in the abuser or blames others for the abuser's actions, the harder it is to leave.

I think Kuze's has not really changed, as shown by his lack of remorse towards Azusa and unwillingness to stand up with Atsumu and leave the game (even if it means the two of them against everyone else unless they can convince others to join them). Kuze is the same person who was playing the bully back here in chapter 1:

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/caste_heaven/bt/243426/Ch1/5

Kuze was just as bad as Asuza, if not worse. Kuze actually enjoys the game and thinks it should continue. Kuze just wants Atsumu to be his bunny.

Atsumu is getting stronger, but he still falls for Kuze's remorse and kindness act. Unless Atsumu starts to wise up, it is only a matter of time till Kuze abuses Atsumu again. Kuze can blame it on the game or the group thinking, but what happened in chapter 8 was just abuse, and no group is responsible for it.

That being said, I enjoy the manga and I am looking forward to more Azusa in chapter 10.

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    xCrystal October 6, 2015 5:21 pm

    I totally agree! I always felt that Kuze was suspicious right from the beginning and have never really liked him since. His actions and attitude towards Atsumu didn't help. He's completely manipulative, and I hope Atsumu gets away from him, or that Kuze gets some retribution. But knowing that this is yaoi....*sigh* One can only dream.

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    Anoni Grrl October 6, 2015 10:32 pm
    I totally agree! I always felt that Kuze was suspicious right from the beginning and have never really liked him since. His actions and attitude towards Atsumu didn't help. He's completely manipulative, and I h... xCrystal

    I'll grant you the "It's yaoi" explanation is a good point. Yaoi can be a safe place to explore dark ideas, and one of the things that makes that possible is suspending disbelief about how some real life dynamics work. I guess I am sour because I just don't like Kuze either. :)

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    Desusutteki October 6, 2015 10:50 pm

    Poor Atsumu, I hope he quickly learns...he is really confused cuz of being ostracised and bullied that he just trusts a person by their nice act not of good character. Good is different from being nice. ┗( T﹏T )┛

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    Kiss* October 7, 2015 12:40 pm

    totally agree with you! That's why chap9 was sad,it seems like the author will ignore this and give us a fake happy ending. Chap9 should have had consequences,at least for Kuze. When it was shown kuze story about his pet,I thought that was the perfect way to end the relationship. Kuze killed the relationship with his possessiveness like he did with the bunny,it could have been a good parallelism and a good lesson as well.

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What's in a name, part II
Anoni Grrl October 5, 2015 9:20 pm

Right after Aki moves in with Asami, the guy at reception calls Aki "Asami-san":

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v06/c035.2/8/

Is this just because Aki is coming from Asami's apartment, or did Asami tell the building management Aki was "family" or what?

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    Asami October 5, 2015 10:22 pm

    I think he meant more like a married wife (in this case hubby xD) kinda way, but im not 100% sure

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    Reality bites October 5, 2015 10:42 pm

    i think Asami let it be known that Takaba was to be addressed as such. Half as a joke maybe to get under Takaba's skin, half as a subtle hint. It also tells the reader that no one comes from that apartment But Asami. How would the guy know who Takaba was unless Asami or someone working for him told him? hahahaha

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    INeedYaoiToSurvive October 6, 2015 10:40 am

    I don't get the scene. At first, I thought why would that guy call Aki Asami sama? Maybe he mistook Aki for Asami but Asami's build is huge and he wouldn't go out in that getup. I then thought that it was meant as a tease since Asami knows every move Aki makes and he wanted that receptionist to mistake Aki as Asami on purpose.

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    yaoilv October 6, 2015 12:02 pm

    I think it is Asami's idea at the frist place to let them know Akihito as Asami.

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    mrl98 October 8, 2015 1:34 am
    I think he meant more like a married wife (in this case hubby xD) kinda way, but im not 100% sure Asami

    Think so too, since Aki blushed

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    Anoni Grrl October 8, 2015 2:35 am

    Given Aki's visions of serving dinner in an apron, I am sure being Mrs. Asami is not high on his to-do list. :)

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Name Game
Anoni Grrl September 29, 2015 11:27 pm

After reading Reality Bites' post about how the only two to call Asami by his first name are Michail and Kuroda, I re-read the boat parts of the story and tried to make sense of Michail. I call Michail by his first name because it seems right. I maybe very American, but I would think a Russian would go by his first name. (I shorten "Aki" because it is easier to type and I have huge, fat fingers, but that isn't related to the manga). So, I think Michail repeatedly calls Aki "Tabaka-kun" when Michail is trying to goad Asami. He made Asami mad enough that Asami killed Michail's messenger--and we rarely actually see Asami kill. Michail offers to light Asami's cigarette, much as Sodouh did later. It seems sort of oddly obsequious, given that Michail is holding Aki. When the three bosses are gathered, Fei calls Aki "Akihito" and also demands Aki's return--and Fei calls Michail "Michail".

Do you think it's because Michail is a boss, or a foreigner, or trying to piss everyone off? This is different than when Kuroda uses first names, because Asami doesn't seem angry with Kuroda and Asami seems to treat Kuroda as an ally (at the very least). Michail is not an ally, but Michail does seem to be an equal of sorts. So is Michail being rude, following his own customs, or showing his status?

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    Anonymous September 28, 2015 6:01 pm

    Part of not calling Asami by his first name is culture. If he were being introduced to an American, it would be as "Ryuichi". When Japanese vendors come and do "fairs" here, their name tags show their first name, keeping with US customs. I don't know anything about Russian culture so I can't comment on Mikhail. Kuroda is Japanese, so that's why Akihito is curious about it. If I called him "Ryuichi", Akihito would know that's how people from the US are. We call Aki in fandom because he's so cute and sweet, but in real life, most would use "Akihito". I don't think I'm making sense. Sorry.

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    Anoni Grrl September 28, 2015 7:09 pm
    Part of not calling Asami by his first name is culture. If he were being introduced to an American, it would be as "Ryuichi". When Japanese vendors come and do "fairs" here, their name tags show their first n... @Anonymous

    I think you make perfect sense. :) So you think it is culture, because Michail is Russian. That works for me--though I could see Michail knowing about Japanese culture too and trying to be overly familiar in order to annoy Asami. On my first read, I thought Michail only wanted the deed and was joking about liking Fei--but on this re-read I thought maybe Michail really was a little into Fei. Michail strikes me as inappropriately flirty as he tries to screw with both Fei and Asami--as if Michail would not entirely mind a different sort of threesome.

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    Anonymous 2 September 28, 2015 7:40 pm
    I think you make perfect sense. :) So you think it is culture, because Michail is Russian. That works for me--though I could see Michail knowing about Japanese culture too and trying to be overly familiar in or... Anoni Grrl

    Mikhail at least seems to be completely unable to speak a word Japanese, though that doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't know abything about their culture. He doesn't strike me as a culturally interested person though - Yuri seemed be more versed in terms of that, maybe he's relying on his knowledge. So the culture bit might play a part. Of course that's all pure speculation though.

    However, I definitely can see him acting that way to annoy everyone. He's a little troll, our Mikhail. ^^ Although I also think he might just be the kind of person who quickly gets (overly) familiar with people.

    What I am pretty sure about is that he's genuinely interested in Fei. Sensei even mentioned something like that. How deep those feelings are is anyone's guess though, but I think we can safely assume he most likely wants to screw him. ^^

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    Anonymous September 28, 2015 8:34 pm

    Mikhail would do what he can to tease Asami and Fei Long. At the card table, Mikhail tease Fei Long about Asami to the point where Asami told Mikhail that if he wants to flirt with Fei Long, take it somewhere else. I'm just trying to figure out how he fits in with Sudoh and will he show Asami the BJ photo.

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    J Unleashed September 29, 2015 1:44 am

    If anyone's interested... Yamane-sensei commenting on Asami's first name usage by others:
    http://www.mangago.zone/home/mangalist/44523/

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    Anoni Grrl September 29, 2015 3:11 am
    If anyone's interested... Yamane-sensei commenting on Asami's first name usage by others: http://www.mangago.me/home/mangalist/44523/ J Unleashed

    Thanks. Now that you linked to it again, i remember you had that. :) She's kind of cagey though. It only makes me wonder. more.

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    Reality bites September 29, 2015 1:38 pm

    Sorry that post was related to the thread speculating about Asami's back story.I think it got hooked in the wrong place? my error. Thanks for the info.`

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    Anoni Grrl September 29, 2015 1:57 pm
    Sorry that post was related to the thread speculating about Asami's back story.I think it got hooked in the wrong place? my error. Thanks for the info.` @Reality bites

    It's cool. I thought I should start a new thread anyway. :)

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    Anonymous September 29, 2015 5:50 pm

    Um, Asami kills the messenger because of the distress he hears in Akihito's voice. Nothing to do with Mikhail goading him. And Mikhail lights Asami's cigarette because he's playing the host, not in subservience.

    Mikhail is being Mikhail. His outward demeanor is one of playful insouciance but he can be deadly serious. He hints at something dark in his background with the same twisted humor when he shows Asami and Feilong his scars. It's his way of dealing with the world he moves in.

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    Anoni Grrl September 29, 2015 10:52 pm
    Um, Asami kills the messenger because of the distress he hears in Akihito's voice. Nothing to do with Mikhail goading him. And Mikhail lights Asami's cigarette because he's playing the host, not in subservience... @Anonymous

    It's fine that you see it that way. I was putting my own spin on it, and it was not the worst part of my summary. I still think those impressions are valid, at least for me. Anytime you say, "X does this because.." you are using your own interpretation of the story. Everyone has their own take on what they see and read, and that is fine. Just be aware that what's on the page is an image of Asami shooting the messenger and and image of Michail lighting a cigarette, nothing more. I'll be happy to debate why I think my impressions have a basis in the story, but just be aware that your impressions are just as subjective, and not some absolute "truth" that is the "right" way or the only way to interprets what is on the page.

    If you are not the Anonymous who usually debates the interpretations of what is on the page with me, I apologies for the lecture. I don't mind discussion--in fact I like them. I am just pointing out hat everyone perceives things through their own set of knowledge, beliefs, experiences and assumptions. As long as we recognize that people will see things differently and have various opinions, discussions about why we think the things we do are cool.

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    Anonymous September 30, 2015 12:44 am
    It's fine that you see it that way. I was putting my own spin on it, and it was not the worst part of my summary. I still think those impressions are valid, at least for me. Anytime you say, "X does this becau... Anoni Grrl

    "Just be aware that what's on the page is an image of Asami shooting the messenger and and image of Michail lighting a cigarette, nothing more. "

    I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous statement. There is far more on the page than that. This mangaka is not that careless. If that was the case, you could cut up all the frames of each page, throw them up in the air and make up whatever you wanted. All of the careful work of the mangaka to build the story, the characters and give you concrete information and clues that are absolutely on the page would be wasted. It is not all as subjective as you think it is.

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    Anoni Grrl September 30, 2015 2:28 am
    "Just be aware that what's on the page is an image of Asami shooting the messenger and and image of Michail lighting a cigarette, nothing more. "I'm sorry, but that's a ridiculous statement. There is far more o... @Anonymous

    It's not *all* subjective, but it is all perceived through subjective filters because that's how human minds work. Art evokes feelings, memories and associations. Stories use various devices and techniques to create multiple layers of meaning. Readers are not passive recipients, but rather active co-creators because the essential meaning of the work depends on the impressions, interpretations and inferences of the reader. Does that mean that the text and the art is random and unnecessary? Of course not. It just means that everyone will see it a little differently, and have various opinions about the characters and events portrayed.

    Now, I agree that we should be able to use the text and images to support our assertions and discuss why we think the things we do about the story. That is not to say that there is only one valid way to experience it. It only means that if we want to discuss the story with others, we need evidence from the text (or images) to show others why we think the way we do.

    Fore example, I think you are partially right that Asami shot the messenger because he heard something off in Aki's voice--but that was only after Michail "primed the pump" by goading Asami. Look at Asami's face in the first frame here:

    http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v05/c027/10/

    Look at the way the light and shadow bring out the anger in his eyes as he says, "Are you trying to piss me off?" Notice how Michail continues to poke the bear by saying, "You're already pissed off. So scary." The next image is of Asami griping his gun in a grim foreshadowing. Asami is already on the verge of losing it, and he has not yet talked to Aki. After talking with Aki, Asami decides something was wrong with Aki and shoots--but he was already upset and goaded by Michail before that. Hearing Aki's distress was the straw that broke the camel's back and made Asami lose it, but it was part of a sequence of events. Michail goaded Asami and then comments on how Asami smells of blood. Michail seems neither surprised nor upset by the probable fate of his man.

    Given how Michail had taken Aki and how Michail goaded Asami about it earlier, "playing host" by lighting Asami's cigarette still seems a bit obsequious to me. It is a jester a host may give at a club (and so it seems when Sudouh does it later). However , it is not Michail's boat, it is Fei's--and Fei isn't falling all over himself to play host. This is not a friendly gathering. Michail has been menacing, true. That's why the lighting of the cigarette seems an almost absurd nicety to a man he has recently helped push into a killing rage.

    There is a lot of tension before Michail makes this gesture. Asami has not said a word since coming in. Michail mentions taking a seat and playing Baccarat. Asami glares. Asami sits leaving a seat between them,turning his chair so he is a little farther from Michail and his back is away from Michail. Michail mentions the smell of blood and asks a bout the guy Michail sent. Asami glares. Asami looks down and gets a cigarette. Everything about Asami so far, from the look in his eyes or the way he won't answer, says Asami is seething. It may even have unnerved Michail a bit. Look at Michail's body language as he offers the cigarette:

    http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v05/c028/7/

    Michail's head is down, and he has lost is grin. The shoulder closer to Asami is lower and he leans over to offer the light. The gesture is almost one of supplication. It is so quiet you can hear the flick of the lighter. Note the sizzle of the flame near Asami. It's as if you can hear Aasami's fuse burning away before he explodes. Michail doesn't smile and get his groove back until Fei shows up.

    Compare that to Sudouh playing host:

    http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v07/c039/7/

    Asami is once again annoyed (though not as much) and Sudouh drops to his knees to light Asami's cigarette. Sodouh is not of Michial's rank or status, and I get the impression that if Sudouh could play host by giving Asami a BJ, he would oblige. It's only my opinion, but again, look at the body language. It's suggestive of begging at the very least. Michail never goes to that degree, of course, but these gestures are similar in type if not in magnitude.

    Just for fun, let's compare that to Kuroda (the other one who calls Asami by his first name) letting Asami light his own damn cigarette:

    http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v07/c043/5/

    Kuroda is teasing Asami about not paying Sudouh enough, and he lets Asami light the cigarette while giving Asami a rare boyish grim (Kuroda is more often smirking). Kuroda's jacket is off, they are both sitting in a relaxed fashion and though the matter is important, neither seem wary. Kuroda makes an open handed gesture towards Asami but with the grin is seems more welcoming or inviting than it is a gesture of supplication as seen in Michail or Sudouh. It seems to me that someone who is comfortable with Asami doesn't need o placate him or play host.

    If you look at Michail's lighting of the cigarette in context of these comparisons, it is likely that lighting the cigarette to play host is something more like what a subordinate like Sudouh would do that it is something done by someone who so comfortable calling Asami by his first name. It's a strangely pacifying gesture for someone who is blackmailing Asami and taking Fei's deed. It's one of the fun things that hint of complexity in Michail.

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    Nightfall September 30, 2015 2:57 am
    It's not *all* subjective, but it is all perceived through subjective filters because that's how human minds work. Art evokes feelings, memories and associations. Stories use various devices and techniques to c... Anoni Grrl

    I know that I have not been a part of this discussion, (I just dropped by to see if there was an update) but I just wanted to point out that you keep spelling Mikhails' name wrong (it is spelled with a 'k' not a 'c') ... not meaning to offend - you have some well thought out opinions, but spelling a characters' name wrong seems to detract a little from your argument.

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    Anoni Grrl September 30, 2015 3:31 am
    I know that I have not been a part of this discussion, (I just dropped by to see if there was an update) but I just wanted to point out that you keep spelling Mikhails' name wrong (it is spelled with a 'k' not ... @Nightfall

    Thanks. You are correct-- I make a lot of typos in general, but I have been letting autocorrect spell the name. Since I am not good at typing and I tend to think phonetically instead of remembering letters and word images, I tend to believe autocomplete knows what it's doing. :) Sorry about that.

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    Nightfall September 30, 2015 3:50 am
    Thanks. You are correct-- I make a lot of typos in general, but I have been letting autocorrect spell the name. Since I am not good at typing and I tend to think phonetically instead of remembering letters and ... Anoni Grrl

    Ah, that explains it. No apologies needed - just thought I would point it out. Autocorrect is not a friend - I was typing something quickly the other day (on Facebook) and after I posted I found that "pencil" was written as 'penis' and 'public' as 'pubic' (there were a few other words that were incorrect as well though I forget what they were, but those two words changed the entire tone of my posting - hahaha) - as luck would have it I was able to edit my comment before anyone saw it...

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    Anoni Grrl September 30, 2015 4:59 am
    Ah, that explains it. No apologies needed - just thought I would point it out. Autocorrect is not a friend - I was typing something quickly the other day (on Facebook) and after I posted I found that "pencil" w... @Nightfall

    LOL. How funny. At least typos provide humor. :)

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    Nightfall September 30, 2015 5:15 am
    LOL. How funny. At least typos provide humor. :) Anoni Grrl

    Yep, or if you miss them, they can come back to haunt you - saw a Catholic school sign about the "quality of pubic education they provide". Huh??? LMAO And we had a very large government sign in our city advertising a great "Land Sale Opertunity" (how many hands it must hve gone through and no one caught that made me shake my head) Hehehe

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    Anoni Grrl September 30, 2015 4:45 pm
    Yep, or if you miss them, they can come back to haunt you - saw a Catholic school sign about the "quality of pubic education they provide". Huh??? LMAO And we had a very large government sign in our city adver... @Nightfall

    Oh dear. Considering all the time I spent after school copying words I misspelled (and still might), I should be better at proofreading, but I am not. If it's important, I have to print it out and go through the paper backwards sentence by sentence. Even then, if I can get a second pair of eyes, I do. I never think my post here will be as long as some turn out, or I might write them in Word where it is easier to find errors.

    Sometimes I can get away with the "sound alike" mistakes. For example, who is to say I didn't mean to write "dramatic jester"? Shouldn't a jester be dramatic at times for the sake of humor? Maybe I meant Mikhail (with a K) is a sort of dramatic jester. Yeah. I'm sure I did.

    Names are harder for me, especially if I am not familiar with them outside of manga or a book. In my head, I hear "Mick Hale" or " McHale" and "Sue Doo" (though I am not sure how that last one should sound exactly). I am always messing up names because of that. It would help the the translators would choose the spelling options favored by my browser spellcheck and autocomplete, but alas, life is not that kind.

    I'll try to pay more attention to it. At least it's not on a billboard. :)

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    misekatte October 1, 2015 6:01 am
    Oh dear. Considering all the time I spent after school copying words I misspelled (and still might), I should be better at proofreading, but I am not. If it's important, I have to print it out and go through th... Anoni Grrl

    Hehehe - the internet is full of signs that have had hilarious typos o them. I collect image of those kinds of signs because they make me laugh. Sometimes even the best proofreading can fail. (my favourite signs are the ones where some one has translated something into English that ends up being wildly inappropriate (my hometown, translated to English is Eel Castle and a nearby town is translated as Intestines ... can you imagine having to admit that you live in Intestines? Or Beer Good?) And I find that auto correct and spell check fail quite often.

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    Anoni Grrl October 1, 2015 4:57 pm
    Hehehe - the internet is full of signs that have had hilarious typos o them. I collect image of those kinds of signs because they make me laugh. Sometimes even the best proofreading can fail. (my favourite sign... misekatte

    I like the mistranslated signs too. Another Internet meme I love is the "Dalek shower": http://usvsth3m.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/f0PXozV.jpg Using universal symbols is supposed to minimize translation issues, but for anyone who watches Doctor Who, that image does not immediately suggest a shower, it suggest an invading alien force. It's just one of those funny ways context and experience shape how we interpret things.

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    misekatte October 1, 2015 5:13 pm
    I like the mistranslated signs too. Another Internet meme I love is the "Dalek shower": http://usvsth3m.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/f0PXozV.jpg Using universal symbols is supposed to minimize translation iss... Anoni Grrl

    Hahaha - I saw a Dalek too!

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Feminine Wiles
Anoni Grrl September 26, 2015 1:48 pm

If Ai were to start hitting on Aki (or using her big eyed, too cute, "Help me you big strong man--I'm just a girl and I can't solve my own problems!" crap to pull him closer and try to bind him into a relationship because she says she needs him.), do you think he would let her down gently, or would he brush her off with the same tactless oblivion he shows everyone who is into him who is not Asami? It is true she is his friend, so I think he would try to be nice. However, Aki doesn't seem to be good at emotional cues or conversations. He may mean to be nice but say something a woman would find harsh. I wonder if Asami would find it funny, or if Ai would find herself on a movie set halfway around the world?

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    INeedYaoiToSurvive September 26, 2015 3:22 pm

    I think Aki would gently refuse her. He may try his hardest and if he says something to offend Ai, it would be kinda funny, lol. He doesn't like the clingy type. At times, I think Aki can't properly express his feelings only towards Asami because Aki gets confused due to Asami and there is a lot of lack of communication. So in case of Ai he may convey his thoughts properly. As for Asami, I would like to see his reaction. Asami may observe the situation and would observe how Aki deals with it. I'm pretty sure Asami wouldn't like Ai as he doesn't like weak, attention seekers. He likes strong people. But Asami would let him deal with it himself.

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    Anoni Grrl September 26, 2015 3:29 pm
    I think Aki would gently refuse her. He may try his hardest and if he says something to offend Ai, it would be kinda funny, lol. He doesn't like the clingy type. At times, I think Aki can't properly express hi... INeedYaoiToSurvive

    You may be right. I think for most of us it is easier to communicate when we have less to lose (potentially). That's why it's hard to trust words that come too easily. If they are so easy to say, how important can they be?

    I do think there could be a very funny scene of Ai throwing herself at Aki and Aki missing every cue until he finally gets it and then tells her, sorry, I am already with someone. I could then see Ai flouncing off in a huff like Miss Piggy (the classic Muppet Show Miss Piggy, not the travesty Piggy in The Muppets which recently aired).

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    INeedYaoiToSurvive September 26, 2015 3:36 pm
    You may be right. I think for most of us it is easier to communicate when we have less to lose (potentially). That's why it's hard to trust words that come too easily. If they are so easy to say, how important ... Anoni Grrl

    Lol, now that's an image I can't get out of my head! xD If Ai starts throwing herself at Aki, Asami may act like I don't need this shit and he may let Aki deal with it. Well if Asami gets jealous, I'm pretty sure, he would have sex with Aki over and over and remind him, 'You belong to me, you can't escape and there is no one else who can satisfy you except for me'

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    Reality bites September 26, 2015 4:17 pm

    when has Takaba shown tactless behavior in the manga to other people or not good at emotional cues or conversations because look at his interactions with Fei long during his captivity. He was able to bargain with him. using emotional cues and conversations. Takaba is a people person. although you don't see them Kou and Takato were(are) his friends. Maybe you mean he may fall for the come on the wiles of a female ?

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    Anoni Grrl September 26, 2015 7:48 pm
    when has Takaba shown tactless behavior in the manga to other people or not good at emotional cues or conversations because look at his interactions with Fei long during his captivity. He was able to bargain wi... @Reality bites

    Aki has the tendency to say whatever he is thinking. It's not a question of wanting to hurt people, and he doesn't have mean thoughts as a rule, but he doesn't stop to think much. He'll say things like "Hey you,glasses guy, come join us." Aki is being open and friendly, but it it doesn't occur to him that "glasses guy" and "Hey you" may not be the best way to make an invitation. When Aki first meets Kuroda, the first thing Aki says is "District Attorney? I didn't do anything illegal." which is not exactly smooth. Similarly, when he finds Aya/Mayu, he has no clue that saying "I had no idea I'd find you working in a place like this so casually." might piss her off--even when she says that impolite guests will be asked to leave.

    Aki's charm is in his pure good will and unspoiled honesty--not in his ability to pick up on emotional cues and use tact.

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    Anoni Grrl September 26, 2015 7:58 pm
    when has Takaba shown tactless behavior in the manga to other people or not good at emotional cues or conversations because look at his interactions with Fei long during his captivity. He was able to bargain wi... @Reality bites

    I don't mean to pick on your post, but I also had a thought about Aki's time with Fei . Aki is not using emotional cues and bargaining with Fei. Fei becomes fond of for Aki's spirit and natural kindness--not because Aki has a silver tongue or manipulated anything on purpose,but because over time Fei gets to know Aki and sees Aki's better aspects. Aki never bargains with Fei. Aki tries to get away once, sees it is pointless, and then Aki makes the best of things. Later, Aki tells Asami "All I could do was wait for you." Aki wasn't using tact and emotional cues to purposefully work Fei--that would probably have backfired on someone like Fei. Fei began to like Aki because Aki is so genuine and unguarded. The flip-side of that, is that Aki sometimes lacks tact and misses emotional cues.

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    Anoni Grrl September 26, 2015 8:40 pm

    Okay, for sake of clarification, here one way I see the scene going (though it is not the only way it could go—and I don’t write fanfic so do not expect too much).

    Ai: Oh Takaba, you are so brave. Thank you so much for finding my friend. I feel so much better now.
    Aki: It was nothing. Anybody would have done it.
    Ai: I do not think so. I think you are wonderful. How can I ever make it up to you?
    Aki: Don’t worry about it. I’m always here to help a friend.
    Ai: It’s so hot in here. Do you mind if I take off my sweater.
    Aki: No problem. Do you want me to turn on the air-conditioning?
    Ai: *Taking off sweater and coming closer* Don’t bother. But it’s so nice to have a man here to fix those sorts of things for me. *Puts hand on his arm and smiles shyly*
    Aki: No Sweat. Always glad to help out.
    AI: You are always helping people. Are you sure I can’t do something for you? *Stroking his arm and looking up into his eyes*
    Aki: Well, if you really want to you could let me have some exclusive photos of your next project. It would be great to get a scoop. But I don’t want to take advantage of you.
    Ai: I don’t mind, if it’s you. But don’t you want something else? *Bats lashes*
    Aki: I can’t think of anything.
    Ai: What was that? *Jumps into his arms* Someone’s out there. Hold me.
    Aki: I didn’t hear anything. *disentangles himself* You stay here and I’ll check it out.
    Ai: No, stay with me. I’m sure it’s just nerves. Please Takaba, just stay the night with me. I’ll make sure you have a good time.
    Aki: Great. Then you go make the popcorn and I’ll find some zombie movies on TV.
    Ai: *Exasperated* Look, I don’t want to watch zombie movies. I want to have sex. With you.
    Aki:*Laughing* Ai stop joking like that. People may think you really are a slut.
    Ai: What? You think I am a slut because I want to have sex with you?
    AKi: *Taken aback* No, no, I mean I never thought of having sex with you. You are my friend, you know, comfortable like an old pair of sneakers.
    Ai: First you call me a slut and then you compare me to a pair of smelly old sneakers!
    Aki: What, no, what I mean is I could never think of you that way. To me, you are sexless.
    AI: Go home Tabaka.
    Aki: But…
    Ai: Get Out!!!

    Aki would then show up for his exclusive photo shoot at her next project, and have no idea why she has him kicked out.

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    Anonymous September 26, 2015 8:42 pm

    I think part if it would be that Akihito would be flabbergasted IF he figured out she was hitting on him when he is just trying to help a friend. Akihito even offered to go with Sudoh to talk to Asami when he was tied up. He jumped in front of Asami's gun when he gave Fei Long the deed. Akihito is a very caring (if somewhat naive) person.

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    Anon September 26, 2015 9:13 pm
    Okay, for sake of clarification, here one way I see the scene going (though it is not the only way it could go—and I don’t write fanfic so do not expect too much).Ai: Oh Takaba, you are so brave. Thank you... Anoni Grrl

    Didn't this kind of already happen? I mean, short of her directly asking for sex. In chapter 33, she's all "Takaba-kun is so brave! Maybe I should live with you! You'd protect me!" She's batting her lashes and even blushing but Aki just laughs it off and mutters about the "inconsiderate person" who is causing him trouble.

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    Anoni Grrl September 26, 2015 9:24 pm
    Didn't this kind of already happen? I mean, short of her directly asking for sex. In chapter 33, she's all "Takaba-kun is so brave! Maybe I should live with you! You'd protect me!" She's batting her lashes and ... @Anon

    I think so. Maybe Ai got the hint and will never take it farther.

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    Reality bites September 26, 2015 11:26 pm

    @Anoni Grrl I don't feel picked on. We are having a free and open disc. We are not being rude ,it's okay to disagree.Instead of the word manipulation I should have used the word influence., which he does have just by being himself. I don't see him the way you do that's fine.

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    Anoni Grrl September 27, 2015 3:34 am
    @Anoni Grrl I don't feel picked on. We are having a free and open disc. We are not being rude ,it's okay to disagree.Instead of the word manipulation I should have used the word influence., which he does have ... @Reality bites

    Oh I agree that Aki has influence. I don't think even Aki is aware of how much influence he may have.

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    Reality bites September 27, 2015 5:19 am

    Agree with Anony. I would like to add one thing. Some one told me lately that love is like finding the right cup coffee. it;s made just for your taste buds. You have to have That coffee made that way or it does not taste right. Takaba has found his brand He can't see any body else but Asami. Poor Ai she better hope he does not find out. hahahah.Siberia is cold.

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Material Girl
Anoni Grrl September 20, 2015 4:26 pm

On a purely superficial level, would you rather have sex with a tall, well built billionaire boss while watching fireworks from the balcony of his exclusive penthouse,or would you like to have sex with a fairly attractive young man either at his parents' house, in a college dorm, or handcuffed to a fence?

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    J Unleashed September 20, 2015 4:33 pm

    ...

    Yes.

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    Anoni Grrl September 20, 2015 4:42 pm
    ...Yes. J Unleashed

    LOL. Good point.

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    Anon September 20, 2015 9:18 pm
    ...Yes. J Unleashed

    Agreed

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    Anon September 20, 2015 9:19 pm

    Hand cuffed to a fence? :D

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    Anoni Grrl September 20, 2015 9:53 pm
    Hand cuffed to a fence? :D @Anon

    Yep. Think of it as this:

    http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/hidoku_shinaide/tr/69591/page/35/

    verses this:

    http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v01/c001/21/

    I mean, if you're being ravish by a hot seme and you're into it, you may as well get the one with the best toys and technique.

    Okay, they are both kind of hot.

    Still.

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    Anoni Grrl September 20, 2015 10:04 pm
    Yep. Think of it as this:http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/hidoku_shinaide/tr/69591/page/35/verses this:http://www.mangago.me/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v01/c001/21/I mean, if you're being r... Anoni Grrl

    Oh, and while I'm being superficial, on the matter of size, Nemugasa didn't even know Maya had it all the way in the first time--whereas Aki was painfully certain when Asami took the plunge.

    *Shakes head at imaginary poll takers who will never read this rant* Priorities, people!

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    Anonymous September 20, 2015 10:55 pm
    Oh, and while I'm being superficial, on the matter of size, Nemugasa didn't even know Maya had it all the way in the first time--whereas Aki was painfully certain when Asami took the plunge.*Shakes head at imag... Anoni Grrl

    It's not all about size, you know... ^^

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    Anoni Grrl September 20, 2015 11:09 pm
    It's not all about size, you know... ^^ @Anonymous

    I'm pretty sure Asami knows how to use it too. :)

    Look, everyone's entitled to an opinion (preferably mine). All I am saying is that Asami is smarter, richer, better looking, more experienced and better endowed. If you go for that kind of thing.

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    Anonymous September 20, 2015 11:20 pm
    It's not all about size, you know... ^^ @Anonymous

    But a good bit of it is.

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    Anonymous September 20, 2015 11:27 pm
    I'm pretty sure Asami knows how to use it too. :)Look, everyone's entitled to an opinion (preferably mine). All I am saying is that Asami is smarter, richer, better looking, more experienced and better endowed.... Anoni Grrl

    That I never doubted. :D

    Sometimes a little imperfection is more attractive than flawlessness. Well- I should emphasize sometimes, as a major Sebastian fangirl. xD In the end it probably goes case by case, and it all comes down to taste anyways.

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    Anonymous September 20, 2015 11:28 pm
    But a good bit of it is. @Anonymous

    Depends. If you don't like it big you don't like it. Luckily for Asami, Akihito seems to enjoy it. ^-^

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    ashida September 20, 2015 11:41 pm

    But if you compare both of their first times to make it fair rather than a time where one occasion was consenting and the other wasn't then they're both not that great. Some people like Asami, some people like Maya. I like Maya because as their relationship progresses he treats Nemu amazingly and worships him, where the manga is currently he is my ideal seme. Asami still has a long way to go for me, I think he is a bit of an asshole. So it doesn't come down to dick size for everyone.

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    Anonymous September 20, 2015 11:47 pm

    Asami is king, but Maya shows a cute side to Nemugasa that Asami never shows Akihito. Younger girls/women who are probably doing most of the voting can see Maya as THEIR boyfriend more than Asami

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    ashida September 20, 2015 11:52 pm
    Asami is king, but Maya shows a cute side to Nemugasa that Asami never shows Akihito. Younger girls/women who are probably doing most of the voting can see Maya as THEIR boyfriend more than Asami @Anonymous

    Or.... they could just have a difference of opinion. Asami is King to you, not everyone.

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    Anoni Grrl September 20, 2015 11:57 pm
    Asami is king, but Maya shows a cute side to Nemugasa that Asami never shows Akihito. Younger girls/women who are probably doing most of the voting can see Maya as THEIR boyfriend more than Asami @Anonymous

    Fair enough. I was mostly kidding. :)

    A while back, someone was posting about how the Japanese are obsessed with "cute" in the youth culture (maybe it was on another manga forum). Once in a while I like something cute. I like Shingo, for example. However I think I don't appreciate the cute as much as most people.

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    Anoni Grrl September 20, 2015 11:58 pm
    But if you compare both of their first times to make it fair rather than a time where one occasion was consenting and the other wasn't then they're both not that great. Some people like Asami, some people like ... ashida

    Both of those links were to rapes (albeit Yoai ravishment seduction rapes). Which one did you think was consenting?

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    ashida September 21, 2015 12:00 am
    Both of those links were to rapes (albeit Yoai ravishment seduction rapes). Which one did you think was consenting? Anoni Grrl

    I didn't look at the links, I was talking about the scenarios given in your original post.

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    ashida September 21, 2015 12:02 am
    Both of those links were to rapes (albeit Yoai ravishment seduction rapes). Which one did you think was consenting? Anoni Grrl

    And even if comparing the links that I just looked at. They're still both shit. Neither of them had implied consent in my opinion so I'd still rather neither, fantasy or not.

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    Anoni Grrl September 21, 2015 12:19 am
    I didn't look at the links, I was talking about the scenarios given in your original post. ashida

    Oh--sorry. My OP was meant to highlight the material differences (e.g. penthouse v. parents' house).

    I am glad you don't think either relationship started with consent--I was all geared up for a lecture on the definition of consent. I do think that in Yaoi and other fictional or fantasy settings, some people can choose to suspend disbelief in the ravishment myth and explore darker themes in a safe setting where rape becomes seduction. It's not for everyone though.

    Don't take the comments too seriously. I was just thinking that on the VF forum I could get some support for my trash talk. I am really okay with people having other opinions. It doesn't mean I won't joke about it or be snarky. It's just harmless humor.

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    ashida September 21, 2015 12:31 am
    Oh--sorry. My OP was meant to highlight the material differences (e.g. penthouse v. parents' house). I am glad you don't think either relationship started with consent--I was all geared up for a lecture on the ... Anoni Grrl

    No worries! I just didn't think it was a fair comparison for the actual semes if that's what you were going for, regarding the poll. If I were to pick, I'd rather just smush Maya and Asami together and get the best of both. XD

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    Anoni Grrl September 21, 2015 12:43 am
    No worries! I just didn't think it was a fair comparison for the actual semes if that's what you were going for, regarding the poll. If I were to pick, I'd rather just smush Maya and Asami together and get the... ashida

    I can see that working. Personally, I tend to like a little bit of a S personality. Not a total asshole, but someone with a bit of an edge who pushes it just far enough ramp up the sexual tension without crossing the line. Also an S in bed (or in flirtation) should not mean a lack of respect in other areas. It's one thing to tease the person you like, and another to be and abusive jerk.

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    INeedYaoiToSurvive September 21, 2015 6:00 am

    I'd choose Asami because in my personal life I'm not a romantic person and I like my own space when in a relation and freedom to do what I want.

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    Anonymous September 21, 2015 8:17 am

    I may get flack for this but the tall dark rich and handsome thing does nothing for me. Both Asami & Maya have an awful intro (imo) but if we are talking about their later personalities I'd choose Maya. Asami is too cool, collected, & in control. Its kinda boring for me. Maya would not be my 1st choice but over Asami? Yeah. He's cuter at least (for me cute>>hot). He looks more tease-able.

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    Anoni Grrl September 21, 2015 1:37 pm
    I may get flack for this but the tall dark rich and handsome thing does nothing for me. Both Asami & Maya have an awful intro (imo) but if we are talking about their later personalities I'd choose Maya. Asa... @Anonymous

    To each her own. You can have the cute, tease-able ones; I'll take the rich bastards who need to be called on their high-handed ways. I have taken some of those "Are you a seme or a uke" personality quizzes, and they always tell me I am a "seme". The funny thing is, I am not attracted to the type they most often label "uke" in the slightest. So in summary, cute is fine for those that like it, and we need more sekes.

    PS Asami could still kick Maya's ass.

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    Anonymous September 21, 2015 2:02 pm
    To each her own. You can have the cute, tease-able ones; I'll take the rich bastards who need to be called on their high-handed ways. I have taken some of those "Are you a seme or a uke" personality quizzes, an... Anoni Grrl

    Agreed. (●'◡'●)ﾉ

    And yeah Maya would definitely lose to Asami be it physically or a match of wits. No contest.

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    eworth September 21, 2015 2:30 pm
    I may get flack for this but the tall dark rich and handsome thing does nothing for me. Both Asami & Maya have an awful intro (imo) but if we are talking about their later personalities I'd choose Maya. Asa... @Anonymous

    That cool, collected, control thing is an illusion. We've seen Asami lose control and become very uncool and uncollected. We've also seen his funny, playful side (though his sense of humor is somewhat warped!) and a warm, romantic side that occasionally makes an appearance for Akihito alone. The fact that there are these hidden facets that can be drawn out, that is catnip to a lover. There's a heady power in knowing you are the one person who can bring that out in him. The man has depths you could spend a lifetime exploring.

    And you can tease Asami. Go ahead! As long as you don't mind finding yourself trussed up in the panic room with a night of exquisite torture ahead of you.

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