MangaThinker's Topics (844)

Honestly!!
I was so mad at the end of Silent Voice bc virtually every other character grows but her,and in the end she's forgiven. Ueno and Gaeun don't have any sort of redemption arch to prove to the audience they deserve forgiveness

In Bloody Sweet the MC is able to stand up to her irredeemable bully/false friend and then that bitch has been chased out of the school by many girls who are fed up with her lies and bullying :)
http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/honey_blood_lee_narae/nbt/to_v-1-chapter-42/pg-1/

Thanks for giving me something new to read. AND it's completed? Many thanks ;)

You re very welcome.
By the way, that lowlife bitch makes one last appearance in S2. She has become older but her self-entitled bitchy attitute hasn't changed at all. Don't worry, the only thing she does is tease the MC a little and arrogantly says "It's been years or that was a long time ago in middle school. Are you still bothered about what I did as kid?"

Don't worry, I already finished it XD.
Quite good but a somewhat bittersweet ending for Roxanna

Well she did got her revenge on everyone who hurt/harmed her inhumanely. And as a vampire she got rich and powerful. The problem was that she never knew how or when to stop her mayhem or really recover from her traumas. That was in the end her undoing.
She couldn't handle the sheer thought of becoming a human again and that shows she never grew much as a person...
As much as I sympathize her at some point she stopped being a victim and became too corrupt.

I agree but Im still sympathetic to a degree. It's doesn't excuse what she did but frankly no one told her to stop until the hatred was too deep. Vlad wasn't in the right mindset to help her and the other side didn't care at all. She remained quite childish til her demise. She deserved it all but if something had helped her like someone helped the MC earlier she would've been saved. That's why I pity her, BC she once had the potential to be free of hatred

She should be the one to take responsibility for herself!
No one can take away that hard work from her!
I can't pity someone who harm other helpless non agressive human beings just for the sake of not dealing with her own issues!
If I were to meet someone like her, I would destroy her without any hesitation!

Idk it's pretty common not to take responsibility of something you had no control over. She was taped, brutalized, assualted and threatened because she was born. What is there to take responsibility of? What hard work? She didn't work for anything, it was all provided by the other guy, he bought news outlets, shows and most likely built her up to where she was. Her parents died when she was extremely young and she didn't speak to any humans where do you expect her to gain a sense of responsibility? Destroy her? No one would've been able to do that, she killed herself. Lol I'm sorry but when did she get non-agressive humans herself bar from that one girl and her friend. Yeah she probably killed a lot of innocent people too but if you hate her you have to hate the male lead too. While he was living with the other guys he killed lots of people as well.

I'm not trying to say she is good at all but painting her as a mindless villain won't work either. She's a foil for the main couple that illustrates what would have happened to them if they didn't have friends who helped them.
Lol this got long but I think she deserves pity

Wait. We were talking about Roxanne?! My mistake! I thought I was discussing with someone about the bitches Gaeun from Ugly Duckling and Naoka Ueno from Silent Voice! ^^
Sorry, I completely forgot about Roxanne!
Again towards Roxanne... Yeah I also pity her very much since I can really relate to her.
I agree with everything you said about her circumstances except we have to realize she was no longer a victim after intentionally going after Vlad's Vampire power and fullfilling her bloody vengeance.
Again, sorry about my recent lack of concentration!

I would have done almost the same thing as Roxanne, if I was in her place or in a similar helpless situation like her. But unlike her I would have looked forward into building a pieceful and very comfortable life for myself. Occasionally punishing bigotted rapists, perverts or other hateful corrupt assholes and helping the weak disenfranchised.
Since I know what it's like to be a victim why not make other victims stronger?

Yh that's where she went wrong she just took her anger out on everything. I don't think she could've lived a quiet life because she wanted to show all those people who hurt her that they were wrong and that she's better that them. Either way she died they way she wanted to- not human.

But the funny thing is, she killed all those people who wronged her. Even those who survived her are very likely crippled and traumatized. All of her perpetrators are long gone.
It was a sad befitting end for her.

fucking facts. this is so true.

I just read a similar webtoon: Wistful Summer.
And it sucks that Sam chose Henry (Childhoodfriend who knew that Sam was in love with him a very long time, still had other relationships and married and then divorced while STILL emotionally needed him) over Seth (Real lovable nice guy who becomes the losing Second Lead Syndrome). ,-(

I finished reading that already

Well im glad henry ended up with sam cause I can't really see him with Seth. Maybe other guy would suit Seth well

Nah i think obviously from a realistic point of view a person like this seme wouldn’t make a potential serious partner.... I don’t even think the he gave any signals he just randomly tried to go for the uke and Ig that’s why the uke was confused and though it was just for the sex...

I don't like using "blaming the victim" logic but in this scenario the uke should really have more backbone and self-respect.

It’s is literally the backbone of yaoi. Japan society is very conservative so many women are sexually repressed so the fantasy of having someone bring out their sexuality has brought this trope as the most desirable in most female targeted romance centered genres. The reality is actually toxic in how it’s actually portrayed or brought out but in the confines of fiction it’s an opportunity to flourish in their sexual desires without feeling wrong for having someone else the be source of their desire rather than acting on it in their self interest.

I don’t think so. If he is serious I would think about but more over the answer “no”. If he try to pick up with me but at the same time with others it’s a immediately no for me. Most at times in manga I can’t really stand playboys so I think it would be the same in the reality

Sorry for my English

You re right! That really explains the origin of this trope.
But why does it has to be an agressive alphahole that is the only one than can bring out the desired sexuality?

Thanks for condemning playboys :)

It’s because of society’s expectation for men have created a toxic portrayal and this the real definition of toxic masculinity not just men doing terrible things but men doing terrible or unquestionable actions because it’s what we tell men it is okay for them to do or should be doing to be a “real man”. So we get hyper sexualized objectifying male archetypes to aspire to and put on pedestals for both growing boys and their developing female love interests. Of course this isn’t even limited to heterosexual men but men of all sexual orientations. It’s why boys will be boys for multiple sexual partners and why a girl is a slut for the same reason. Yaoi just happens to take all of that and takes usually the worse parts of this idealization to be fantasy because young girls have been thought to desire men in that way so even the dark parts of their own self made fantasies those expectations are still present despite their real life very negative effect and oppression of female identity and expression. It’s some real Freud irony.

I can say for sure that there are more and more depictions of men pursuing intimacies without the classic toxic masculinity in mangas, manhwas and webtoons.
Of course that toxic trope won't be entirely gone but there is progressive even it is slow.
You should have seen mainstream shoujo and yaoi in the 90s and 2000s. Abuse, sexual assault, rape etc were very quite common in these genres for many readers.

Thanks for the helpful education.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx-AL4nqm4I
The Bad Boy Trope, Explained
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JkZ55np3z8
The Nice Guy Trope, Explained

haha thank you i'm very familiar with the trope. I actually work in the film industry when i'm not reading BL. lol

No arguments here. At least some of those crazy MLS had a reason, this one was just manipulated, a bloody puppet.

Again why fall for those that want to kill us, I’ve read some where MC tries to run, but that makes L chase her, why can’t the charming second ML get the girl?

Why do the nice guys finish last?

Google Second Lead Syndrome

Not all the time, it depends on the second lead, especially if they’re there when the ML ever was and is a dick

Also I blame some harlequin mangas,I wish a lot of those girls had just walked away, ML makes there life a living hell for something they didn’t do no matter how much they ask or apologize if it was a small mistake, then the guy apologized once and all is forgiven cause their heart still tingles when they forcibly kiss MC

I really recommend "Beware of the Villaines", "The Pet of the Villainess" and "Her Royal Highness is Angry" in NovelUpdate (the manga version is sadly inferior)
In "BotV" Melissa the Villainess with her unapologetic bitchy attitude is able to break the four male leads who represent the classic toxic male archetypes and Yuri the Heroine pridely walks away from these four MLs because she knows they are too bad for her ^^

Definitely going to check them out thanks!

I don’t know what you mean by classic Asian push over but I don’t see it like that. She’s a more reserved and respectful character. She may be a bit overwhelmed when it comes to the ML but when she is taking care of Primera she is by no means a push over. She could have given up on caring for her when Primera told her to leave her alone but she hasn’t. She may not have a strong outstanding character like most mangas but she isn't laying over and letting fate take control.

Yeah I agree! Just because she not a strong female lead like most reincarnated mangas doesn’t mean she a pushover. She more like the type to keep to themselves and not bother others. It’s pretty refreshing to read a reincarnated manga like this then the usual “strong villainess who turns out to be a good girl while the heroine is the bad one”

I would react the same way she did when meet a handsome man but from the way I see, she never really fall over heed for that alfred(?) She know to keep her boundary and I respect her.

as an asian this comment actually gmfu ٩(๑❛ᴗ❛๑)۶

Wtf is a pushover Asian? As an Asian, I find this comment insulting

I am Taiwanese and I ve read various Shoujo Mangas, Korean Novels and Asian Dramas.
You have to admit many of these heroines are often too passive, nice, reserved and susceptible in comparison to male heroes.
I apologize to use the term to generalize specific character tropes/archetypes.
Maybe you can recommend a better description but it is true that currently women in Asian stories are portrayed more weaker than female Western characters.

I ve read some translated novel chapters and manga raws and it is the classic Harleyquin Romance and Shoujo behaviour/helplessness.
She has strenght and witts but her power/self-preservation becomes more diminished when she becomes more in contact with the flirtatious male characters.

Really

I recommend you to read "The Pet of the Villainess" :)
A mob character who is able to improve the Villainess and the commoner ML for the better so they can stand up to the scum prince and king.

I take offense by the Asian push over remark. We do have our own lives to live.

You think Yulia is refreshing? Try to see Sasha from "The Pet of the Villainess"!
She is from appearance more smaller, frail and powerless than Yulia.
But her inner toughness, strong survival instinct, empathic and cunning manipulative skills makes her very admirable.
A mob character who is able to improve the Villainess and the commoner ML for the better so they can stand up to the scum prince and king. She even helps the Heroine to becomes more free.

Would it have made a difference if I had rephrased it like this:
She is a classic pushover character in Asian melodramas, novels or mangas...

I don’t like that webtoon i got bored of reading it after the 1st chapter and I’m not a fan of Sasha. That webtoon is pretty typical and predictable just like most of the reincarnated webtoon/mangas. But of course that just my opinion on that webtoon. So we can agree to disagree with that topic. Also i never said Yulia was refreshing i said and I quote “it’s refreshing to see a reincarnated manga like this then the usual strong villainess who turns out to be a good girl and the heroine is the bad one.” Yulia is a strong female lead in her own way. Just people she doesn’t act a certain way that you believe is a “strong female lead” doesn’t mean that she is weak or how you put it “A classic Asian pushover” for one thing race has nothing to do with being a pushover and secondly even pushovers are capable of being strong willed in their own way. Now i do apologize if what i say come off rude cause i by no means meant any harm but i do appreciate your opinion on the FL and im glad to share my thoughts and opinions also.

We both have our personal preferences and own ideas what makes truly a strong appealing relatable character.
I think I can relate more to Sasha while you personally relate more to Yulia's character.
It just bothers me that Yulia seems to be so powerless to the other characters around her. Yes, maybe she is not that defenseless but it's like she is at the receiving end...
Sasha on the other hand creates more advantages for herself no matter who her opponents are.
What I meant with "classic Asian pushover" are the female main characters you see in many Chinese, Korean and Japanese dramas/stories who despite their strong will and strenght are constantly or suddenly underminded and saved by others. Nevertheless I will reflect on my reckless remark. There are unfotunately pushovers who never learn and stay in their safe comfort zone/status quo.
I am glad we can discuss and disagree on a very friendly term.

Ohh! I know that one! I really love it every time the villain ignore the prince.. Like it is satisfying. And the the suppose "heroine" in that story is kind of twisted.

Thank you! Being an Asian it’s really insulting to see this comment. Asians are not push over we just have a more reserved respecting culture. This is only stereotyping us as pushovers based on anime and manga characters who are portrayed as such. That doesn’t mean every Asian is a push over. It’s disappointing to find a comment like this.
(︶︿︶)

You don't see often a rich entitled ML prince getting rejected and dumped^^
The heroine is an abused child that was forced by her mother who also is a reincarnated reader to becomes the perfect heroine that marries the childish selfish crown prince Johannes. But instead of fullfilling the role or becoming a hidden psychotic antagonist, she decides to go against her mother/the script and choose the unwanted second prince Payne (also abused by shady King) with whom she can be more herself. I like the fact that she manages to emacipate herself more.

Not just anime or manga but also how many negative, cartoonish and conservative Asian characters are depicted in their own native country in Chinese, Korean or Japanese shows, dramas and movies.
What I actually meant was a pushover character common in Asian drama stories who gets easily picked on until a perfect prince or heir saves/empowers her.

I don’t relate to Yulia. I pretty much just like her cause she wears glasses. ╮(￣▽￣)╭ i dont have a glasses fetish if i worded it to make it seems like i did but I don’t lol i just like reading manga with “ugly” girls, chubby girls or glasses girls since it’s different from the usual skinny pretty popular girl that every male lead loves. I’m not a fan of Sasha nor can i really like her since she literally has the same personality as most reincarnated girls in a story. I can name a lot of mangas/webtoons where the FL act like Sasha. I do however love the drawing in that manga it is really well done and i love it a lot but the plot isn’t exciting to me. It’s just no different from reincarnation mangas that i read. Yulia seem like the type that could be classified as a “pushover” but i feel like when she gets mad or is anyone mess with the people she cares about then she is gonna show them her strong side. I do agree that this manga is also a little typical and that Yulia isn’t a very interesting character at first but i do have some high hopes for her and hopefully she can develop more as a character. Likewise, I’m also glad we can discuss and disagree on certain topics instead of throw opinions around and disregarding others opinions thinking that only their opinions is superior. It’s wonderful to have this conversation calmly and maturely. Waaaaayyyyyy better than YouTube comments. (－.－||)

I can understand why Sasha and her story doesn't pick your interest. But for me she, her accomplishments and involvements with others are unique nuanced enough.
I also liked the beginning of Yulia's arc but then it went to a direction that was too predictable for me. Bevor the manga version I discovered somehow the covers of the novel I was Reincarnated and Now I’m a Maid.
https://cdn.novelupdates.com/images/2019/09/maid.jpg
From my point of view Yulia is depicted in this artwork more mature, alluring, serene and confident despite looking plain. I thought she was going to be a mysterious dignified background character that can really make others speechless. Imagine my disappointment when I started to read the translated novel and manga chapters.

Other unexpected heroines with glasses would be Kanoko from Warau Kanoko-sama + Sequel Koi dano Ai dano and Hibiki - Shousetsuka ni Naru Houhou.
The first one is a very shrewd observer and the other one is... well... merciless.
Both are considered plain by Japanese beauty standards but they are unapologetic weird and strong in their own way.
It is really a very productive conversation.

Thanks for clarifying what you meant. I get where you’re coming from with the way Asian portray their characters. Just be careful of wording next time it’s easy to bring on the wrong impression. Happens to everyone.

Thanks for the feedback!

I can understand why Sasha and her story doesn't pick your interest. But for me she, her accomplishments and involvements with others are unique nuanced enough.
I also liked the beginning of Yulia's arc but then it went to a direction that was too predictable for me. Bevor the manga version I discovered somehow the covers of the novel I was Reincarnated and Now I’m a Maid.
https://cdn.novelupdates.com/images/2019/09/maid.jpg
From my point of view Yulia is depicted in this artwork more mature, alluring, serene and confident despite looking plain. I thought she was going to be a mysterious dignified background character that can really make others speechless. Imagine my disappointment when I started to read the translated novel and manga chapters.

Other unexpected heroines with glasses would be Kanoko from Warau Kanoko-sama + Sequel Koi dano Ai dano and Hibiki - Shousetsuka ni Naru Houhou.
The first one is a very shrewd observer and the other one is... well... merciless.
Both are considered plain by Japanese beauty standards but they are unapologetic weird and strong in their own way.
It is really a very productive conversation.

Really?! Ohhhh I'm more excited to for the next chapter! I'm so happy that the heroine is not evil. I hate it when the heroine is also evil but I'm glad she's not

Death is the only ending for a villainess or beware of the villainess! These are just two reincarnated that i named that I believe is far more interesting than Yulia and Sasha. I disagree about this manga being predictable only because I only read about 3 chapters so I can’t exactly fully say it will be predictable or not with only the first 3 chapters at least up until chapter 10 that when i can fully give a true comment on the story but so far it’s alright. Now it does seems like it gonna be the usual girl and two boys like her but hm I can’t tell after only reading 3 chapters unlike with the pet of the villainess it’s just really predictable which make me not want to continue. “Prince is made to be the bad guy while the heroine reincarnated and is actually a evil girl that fakes being nice and sweet but potentially could turn nice with help, The villainess was actually nice and sweet and truly loves the prince but because of him mistreating her she be colds to him and break the engagement.” but i do the like the villainess in the story alot. In my opinion she is far more interesting than Sasha.

Penelope Eckhart is a very interesting complex character but it frustrates me very much that she is forced to play under a otome system that restrict most of her movements, decisions and free will. I can't stand seeing her being that tortured and powerless at the beginning of her story. Even though her situation gets better, I hate the fact that she had to (indirectly) get love points from all the male characters around her to survive and being accepted....! Spoiler: She ends up with the psycho king who almost killed her.

I think Melissa from "Beware of The Villainess" has been recently the break out star and the big talk in this forum. She also became one of my favourite characters so far.
She likes being a bitch and she doesn't give a damn about the male leads who are shitty.

I also like Rebecca who was able to become more emancipated and far superior than prince Johannes. But let's not forget it was little Sasha who became her secret therapist that showed her other better options. I ve read the released raws and some spoilers, in my opinion the story about Sasha, Rebbecca and Ace is not that generic or predictable.
But even if I can convince you it is true, it doesn't change your dislike about Sasha and her story. And no matter how many commentors are defending Yulia, it won't change my disappointment about her.

I like that Beware of the Villainess! Yep I agree that comic is far more interesting. She is so queen and badass GOSH I love her so damn much

Of course. At the end of the day you have your opinion and i have mines the only way it could possibly change is if the character in either story does something you like. I’m pretty sure a lot of people (me being one of them) is fine with you not liking Yulia they just don’t like how you express it/said it. Sure Sasha did help Rebecca that is no lie but at the end of the day I still not a fan of her nor do i like the manga. It typical and basic to me. But those characters do show growth and it actually has a plot that isnt all over the place. But I’m most likely isn’t gonna continue reading that.

And the spoiler to penelope story i dont know if that really true since i read some raws and the story wasnt completed but then again it could be true I won’t know without proof.

Right! I really been enjoying reading that manga. Im gay for her

like i get what you're saying but that was so blunt it threw me off xD u could've just said "mary sue" or that she was a pushover cuz there was no room for race to be brought up

The FL in 'May I ask for one final thing' is so badass, she'll punch people and she doesn't give shit to anyone

i wanna be u just for one day. medeia is a queen, she's dont give a shits to anyone who against her. she's independent, strong and not hesitated to killing people.

also in emperor and his female knight, the fl is sooo manly and she's not pretend it. she's badass, strong, funny and dont give a shit and she has abs askdhdjsklalskd

I liked Scarlet too but.... When you read the novel or manga, you must have also realized how inferior she is to the invulnerable sadistic prince who is also sadly her love interest.
Why the hell is she holding back when it comes to the prince? She had plenty opportunities to hit the ML but the author doesn't allowed it. He may not have bullied her like his dumbass younger brother but he still constantly teasing/bothering her with any low key insults for his own amusement. We never see him suffer or struggle! He is an annoying living kryptonite for Scarlet and she lets him off easy everytime he makes fun of her! It doesn't make any sense!
I am sorry to say this but she is in the end weaker than Rachel from Slow Prison Life who always strikes back regardless who that person is.

Yes, Pauliana Winter is a very grounded strong female knight who deals endlessly with sexism. Even the genius prince/king is always surprised by her talents.
But Melissa, Cecia from Queen Cecia's Shorts and the Red Haired Queen from ebony are able to destroy with their ambitions and will power the status quo system.
Pauliana on the other hand is unfortunately still powerless in her world. Despite being an accomplished woman knight she still accept the sexist social norm.
And before you say that is realistic, here are other real life examples:
https://www.cracked.com/article_19478_5-real-princesses-too-badass-disney-movies.html

Oh! I forgot! There is the unapologetic "Wolf Queen" from My Lord Wolf Queen!!!