Zochris's Topics (74)

Ah! The dream~

It's for hitting his sister.

Have you ever met/saw mafia movie? Even you got beaten up for just bumping one.

haha yeah. Wow, over here we say sorry if someone bumps into us. xD

he was jealous of Asaichi and beat and raped him because of Yoru. only the excuse was his sister, but he didn't pay that much attention to that as much as he wanted to punish him for Yoru furstly for stealing him as potential lover and for misstreating him.
kids who didn't understand that shouldn't read such hardcore yaoi :)

Right.

Where the hell did you read that ? ╥﹏╥ is the fifth chapter released already ?

I've taken a sneak peak at the raws.

dont act like you know yaoi that much. you dont even make yaoi.

Obs cuz he was jelly and he was mad cuz he hit his sister asachi is such a bitch he should die. Yoru and mafia dude

Asami does not fit either profile, not by medical standards. Those terms are thrown around today in pop culture as to render them meaningless. If Asami was either, Takaba would be dead, or worse.

Interetsing thought, but don't really think he fits either one. Someone with an antisocial disorder (sociopath or psychopath) lacks empathy and does not make real attachments to others. A sociopath would not bother going after Aki in Hong Kong. BPD invles an extreme drama queen--even more so than Aki, but nothing cool like Asami. People with BPD exhibit mood swings, reckless behavior, and unstable relationships. They need to be the center of attention and show extreme emotions such as panic, crying or throwing a tantrum.

Aki does show poor impulse control, but at most I'd say maybe he has ADHD. Asami is a perfectly healthy criminal, IMO.

As @Reality bites said, Asami does not fit either of the profiles and if you had really studied them, you would know that. Sociopaths (as to claim Asami is a psychopath is just laughable) are completely emotionless, stone cold, they don't form attachments, not even with their own family.

Now, I realise that some fangirls would like to see Asami on a bed of roses, declaring his undying love for Akihito, coz otherwise they just don't believe Asami really cares for Akihito. (I also realize those fangirls are unexperienced teenagers with a rose-tinted view on life and love.) With this manga, a lot of it is reading between the lines and interpreting the actions of the characters. After everything Asami has done for Akihito ( I mean, just look at the last chapter, he tells Kirishima to take Akihito to safety and leave him behind!), if you perceive him as a sociopath and a beast, then you, my dear, have a problem.

Although I think you're just throwing big words around thinking that makes you seem intelligent. News flash: it doesn't!

I agreed with you guys all the way. Think about this Zochris, if asami fit that profile would he be able to run a successful business. Maintain his coolness, level headed as he done as leader of the underworld ect. .... To do all this, he have to be sociable and mentally stable to deal with all sort of things he faces day in and day out. So his mental function is normal not abnormal.

Asami displayed psychopathic behaviors vol 1. He kidnapped, raped and held Akihito against his will because Finder was supposed to be a one-shot catering to readers who like that stuff. Sensei has redeemed Asami in subsequent volumes and now the reader knows he is not a psychopath. Vol 1 Asami was psychopathic.

That's arguable. Asami didn't kidnap Akihito with the intent of raping him. He intended to scare him. In that way, Asami was displaying the behaviors of a crime boss with clear reasons behind his actions. He subsequently raped Akihito because he was overcome by desire. Dark, dirty and reprehensible but still not psychopathic.

I think Asami intended to rape Aki--but in the magic of fiction Asami knew how to make Aki feel good and that Aki secretly was into it. Again, in RL there is no excuse. In Yaoi, the rules change because in fiction, Asami can "read" Aki's hidden desires, and the whole thing is an act of passion for both of them. I know that only works if you suspend disbelief, but I do.

What makes Asami's acts different from a psychopath is his feelings and his motives. Psychopaths tend to have a meanness in their motive and lack of control over their impulsive actions. Unlike a psychopath, Asami wants to make Aki feel good during the experience, and he feels empathy for Aki (look at how he pats Aki on the head at the end f teh chapter). He has a bold seduction, but he cares for Aki and wants Aki to care for him.

Many psychopaths commit criminal acts, but not every criminal is a psychopath. The actions are only evidence of how someone thinks and feels (or does not feel). Without the personality traits used to diagnose the disorder, the criminal acts by themselves mean nothing (from a clinical standpoint).

The Russian guy who choked Aki exhibited more traits of being a psychopath because he (1) acted impulsively based on his internal emotions and (2) wanted to hurt Aki to make himself feel better. He didn't choke Aki to get money or because he was ordered to. He did it for spite, and to ease his own internal pressure to act out. He feels nothing for Aki and only wants to inflict pain--for no other reason than inflicting pain feels good.

Where Asami displays psychopathic traits is in Vol 1. In BL, he isn't psychopathic, but if in RL, kidnapping, rape, object rape for one's own gratification, being glib, grandiose are psychopathic traits. I think OP is studying real life psychopathy and personality disorders which where they are basing their opinion. They may be speaking clinically, not fictional character analysis.

Nah... in Volume 1, Asami was just being an asshole. :P

He seemed to be affected by Akihito's tears, and he also saved Akihito from Yamazaki (who, if you ask me, seems more the sociopath here). And then there was the affectionate "ruffling" of Akihito's hair at the end when Akihito was upset over being betrayed.

The kicker was just before releasing him, Asami gave Akihito very sound advice on how to not end up in a situation like the one Asami had just put him through.

Like I said...

"Asshole".

LOL - your comment! True, he was an ass in Vol. 1 - before he realized he had feelings for Akihito, then he slowly changed. Hehehe

I think OP is alluding to clinical aka real life characteristics of psychopathic behavior. In the land of fiction, he's an "asshole", but in real life if Akihito went to a therapist after being kidnapped, he would be describing psychopathic behaviors. If somebody is studying psychopathy or personality disorders per the diagnostic manual in, they may have a more real life point of view.

I don't think Asami is grandiose or glib. I also think he went out of his way to make Aki enjoy it. Yes, it's still rape, but Asami does not show enough psychopathic traits to deserve the label.

Even in real life, not all rapists are psychopaths. Arguably, there is *something* wrong with them, but it does not always fit this specific disorder.

A personality disorder is not diagnosed based on whether someone else went to a therapist. According to the DSM V, a personality disorder must meet the following criteria:

A. Significant impairments in self (identity or self direction) and
interpersonal (empathy or intimacy) functioning.
B.One or more pathological personality trait domains or trait facets.
C.The impairments in personality functioning and
the individual's personality trait expression are relatively stable across time and consistent across situations.
D. The impairments in personality functioning and the individual's
personality trait expression are not better understood as
normative for the individual's developmental stage or sociocultural environment.
E.The impairments in personality functioning and the individual‟s
personality trait expression are not solely due to the direct
physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse,
medication) or a general medical condition."

"To diagnose antisocial personality
disorder, the following criteria must be met:
A. Significant impairments in personality functioning
manifest by:
1.Impairments in self functioning (a or b):
a.Identity: Ego-centrism; self esteem derived from personal gain, power, or pleasure.
b.Self-direction: Goal-setting based on personal gratification; absence of prosocial internal standards associated with failure to conform to lawful or culturally normative ethical behavior.

AND

2.Impairments in interpersonal functioning (a or b):
a.Empathy: Lack of concern for feelings, needs, or suffering of others; lack of remorse after hurting or mistreating another.
b. Intimacy: Incapacity for mutually intimate relationships, as exploitation is a primary means of relating to others, including by deceit and coercion; use of dominance or intimidation to control others. "

I think Asami's behaviors, while criminal, are nomitive for the Yoai environment and that he exhibits some level of both empathy and intimacy, even when he is being an asshole.

First, thanks for the intelligent conversation without vitriol. It's true that you cannot diagnose ASPD or anything else based on other people's reports, which is why the word "traits" is used, not as a diagnosis but as a description. However, I can't think of a competent therapist who would tell a kidnapping/rape victim that their perpetrator is just an asshole even if the victim was sexually aroused. This manga is fantasy and fiction, but the OP pointed out that they are studying psychopaths and borderline PD, so I can see where they drew their opinion. Sometimes if people study ASPD/psychopathy or work with victims, it influences how they see fiction, music, etc. I don't have to agree with an opinion that Asami is a beast (or I wouldn't be reading this series) to understand where the opinion is coming from, especially if a person is studying this area.

I enjoy the conversation too. :) I don't think a therapist would tell a victim anything about a diagnosis for the rapist. It's irrelevant to the therapy, which would be about treating the survivor. Rape is rape even if the survivor enjoyed it, but all rapists do not have the same diagnosis (some in fact do not have a clinical diagnosis--they are just criminals).

I don't think Asami meets the criteria for a personality disorder, and especially not borderline personality disorder. He would be closer to antisocial personality disorder if he did not also display empathy and intimacy (as well as lacking the impulse control issuesand other problems associated with ASPD).

Years back people used to argue whether the fictional character Tony Soprano fit the criteria of ASPD. I would argue Tony did not (even though he murdered and tortured people for cash). Tony showed empathy and attachment to his family, and his acts were "normal" for someone who grew up in and lived in an organized crime "family". He didn't hurt people for the fun of hurting them--he did it for power and money, and to some extent to protect his family and keep them secure.

Asami has even fewer characteristics of ASPD than Tony Soprano. Asami only acted that way toward Aki, it was temporary, and he does not try to cause Aki *pain* for fun. Asami doesn't kill unless he has to. Asami is not glib like Sakazi, grandiose like Sodou, or manipulative like Matari. Asami lakes the fake smarmy quality associated with a psychopath faking emotion to play people--and he displays genuine loyalty to those he trusts. The fact that he trust anyone in his situation makes him break the ASPD mold.

Asmai has faults and may be a criminal--I just don't think he meets the criteria for a personality disorder.

You also have to take into account that because we aren't given much from Asami's POV, we don't actually glean anything from him because he could just be good at hiding it. It's pure assumption that he's cold and doesn't feel remorse etc, etc. We are never actually told what he is thinking so all we can do is speculate about his actions. There is a difference between simply feeling emotion as opposed to feeling and then acting upon said emotion.