WickedLilith's Topics (380)

People here aren't short-sighted, it's you, because you fail to understand further than what's simply shown to you, people think that the guy is an asshole and they're right.

Hanwool doesn't understand humans at all and decides that all humans are selfish based on a group of people when Naroo's lover died to save him, was that selfish of him? Through this experience he saw different sides of humans - love, sacrifice and selflessness but he still deemed that all humans are selfish, it's not idiocy or being oblivious but it's his fixed perception of humans being selfish that refuses to budge even when he sees that humans are more than that.

It's clear that Yunho is a good guy deep down as the people around him love him and with his personality he won't do anything terrible to Naroo. It's been made clear to Hanwool that Yunhoo is more complex than he seems with Kyun telling him about his past and his bandmate telling him about Yunho yet he never took the initiative to understand Yunho's past, feelings and motive for getting close to them, if he did then he wouldn't associate him to the people that hunted down Naroo. He doesn't know anything so he doesn't have the right to confront and judge him with his superficial knowledge on him.

In conclusion Hanwool is narrow-minded and needs to break out of his "I hate humans" mindset otherwise he'll never truly understand them or make an effort to but if in your eyes it appears otherwise then you're just as short-sighted as Hanwool which is a disappointment as you should understand the whole story as your a reader...

Iagree with u yes

Hanwool has not been shown different yet so why would his opinion change? Yun's reasons still weren't good. Because of his tragic loss people tend to forget why he was trying to be Naroo's friend. Hanol figured it out especially after what he yelled at him. My point is if you are going to fault Hanwol and hold him to a higher standard than Yunho must as well. Otherwise it is just hypocritical. I am pretty open minded and see the bigger picture. It is why I don't call Hanwol an "asshole", which isn't true. Otherwise, he wouldn't care, get upset or save your faves aka selfish humans.

Can you not read? I clearly wrote that Hanwool has been shown different sides of people through Naroo's lover sacrificing himself to protect Naroo, yet he still believes that all humans are selfish which makes him an asshole. For Yun, I don't want to judge him as he hasn't done anything bad to Naroo, although his motive for getting close to Naroo is not pure it's understandable through his perspective. Since nothing has happened, I won't judge Yun as a bad person because his reaction is what a normal person would be like. In this world there is always a motive behind someone's action and there is no such thing as completely good person e.g. People who become surgeons only for the money, people who act polite to give others a good impression of themselves or giving fake praises because you don't want to bring unnecessary drama to yourself, does this make you an asshole? Everyone is hypocritical or selfish in some way - Naroo relying on Kyun to give him yang energy, Hanwool saving Yunho because of Naroo. Because everyone is selfish to some extent; to which point would you someone a bad person, for me it would ultimately be the result of their actions.

Btw I already gave my reason for calling Hanwool which you clearly didn't read in my first comment and Hanwool believes that Yunho is not a normal person because of his smell so no he didn't save any 'selfish' humans.

Listen dear, I can read and you are being rude. You STILL are missing the point. I won't address you again. Think what you want. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

*sigh* You said Hanwool hasn't been shown different sides of humans other than selfishness when I explicitly explained in my first comment that he has, it's not my fault that you appear as you can't read, I'm not being rude just stating facts. Yeah I know Yunho isn't a saint (no one is) but he has his reasons and Hanwool who's an outsider and doesn't know shit should stay out of it until he has the full grasp of the situation.

Preach!!! Oh my gosh! Yes I was also thinking the same!!

Say it louder

I think MC is probably bi and was just in denial over it beforehand.

You know there's something called 'cause and effect' right? If Akanishi didn't test him then Ryo wouldn't have gone out to get fucked so I digress and believe he was at fault. While Ryo is an adult he has a trauma, although he made a conscious decision he wasn't in the right state of mind and was influenced by the situation created by Akanishi; he made decisions he otherwise wouldn't have made if he was in the right state emotionally/mentally. Honestly the way you blame Ryo is baffling, it's like blaming a person for committing suicide because he made the conscious decision to jump off a building but not the people who bullied and beat him up everyday.

Your comment bothers me so much. It’s bullshit to say it’s the seme’s fault. It’s like saying “it’s not the murderer’s fault it’s the fault of that person who told him they don’t like the victim”. Either you take responsibility for your actions or you just don’t get to make decisions just like a child. It’s not like the uke didn’t have any other choice. And to the point you made about suicide, that’s not the only reason people commit suicide and you make it sound like suicide is an out for the people that have been bullied...

I absolutely agree with you, idk how they think Ryo is blameless, imo I blame Ryo more than Aka cause yh he lied, but he didn't force Ryo to do it with some random guy, Ryo choose to out of 1 million other possibilities like move out, admit ur feelings etc

How does my comment bother you when it's the truth? Humans are complicated and individualistic creatures, they cannot be perfectly replicated - whether it's their thought process, emotions or experiences. They do things that don't benefit them, entangle in meaningless relationships, pursue their desires and do things on instinct; to be honest I don't understand people. Ryo was nurtured by an older woman just for sex; there are a different amount of responses to this situation but he developed a trauma and used sex as a coping mechanism. His identity that was developed from his past and his mental state created the Ryo we have today and he reacted accordingly to his personality when faced with Akanishi's lie - he ran away and used sex as a coping mechanism. Although there are many choices he could have made, he felt like there was none and made a poor decision. From an outsider's POV it may seem illogical and a decision of a 'child' but it was his reality that fit his mindset. You need to understand that everyone is different and thus their actions will not match your morals/viewpoints so it is unfair to judge everyone under the same banner - "either you take responsibility for your actions or you just don’t get to make decisions just like a child" because it's not as simple as that.

The example you gave didn't make sense - Akanishi tried to manipulate Ryo into confessing. He was full of himself and thought that everything was in control when in reality it wasn't. He treated Ryo like a game; not a human being, he thought he could predict his reaction but in order to so you have to know everything about them but Akanishi didn't, he didn't know about Ryo's past and trauma which lead to the subsequent of actions, which is why I blame Akanishi not Ryo. I used the suicide example because it fit the message I was trying to express, I know suicide isn't only caused by bullying but a multitude of things including home life, personality and thought process but I thought that it was common knowledge and didn't to explain it.

Your opinion is not “the truth”. You just wrote a summary of the things everyone that read the story already knew but the funny thing is u seem to sympathize with ryo and say everyone is different everyone has different morals/viewpoints yet you can’t seem to use the same mindset when looking at Akanishi. And the subtext I get from your statement is that you think mentally challenged people don’t need to take responsibility which is just offensive. My example may have been far fetched but it fits the theme of the party. Akanishi told ryo a lie and tried to get a reaction out of him. Since he didn’t know ryo as well as we “know” him he couldn’t have predicted that ryo would let another dude violently fuck him in a park. It just doesn’t make any sense to blame Akanishi. It’s like saying prank calls should be banned because the person that had been prank called freaked out and committed a self destructive act. And again to your suicide statement, u didn’t need to “explain” anything. I literally said that suicide is not only caused by bullying and yet you continued to list reasons to kill yourself.

Honestly Akanishi is hard to sympathise with because I don't understand him, Ryo is easier to understand because he went through something bad and developed a trauma to it, that's normal right? But with Akanishi it's like he was born morally warped because his reaction to his father's kept lover is jealousy and wanting one himself then he later realised he had a certain sexual inclination. The guy was born like that, he didn't go through anything traumatic, you might say it's caused by his father but I think it made him realise his sexual inclination instead. Yeah, from Akanishi's POV it was normal to test him; from his past we can tell he doesn't think in a way an average person does, just because I didn't mention it doesn't mean Akanishi doesn't adhere to the same principles, we were talking about Ryo so I didn't really mention Akanishi. Again, it's common sense that you don't test people because it's hard to predict their reactions much more if you don't know anything about the other party; Akanishi knows that he doesn't know that much about Ryo, he out of everyone should know that Ryo isn't your average person because of his libido, just like how Akanishi has a reason to sleep around Ryo should have one too but he didn't bother to find out tbh I don't know where his confidence came from that he was in control of everything. Akanishi instigated the event so I blame him, if not at least half. Yes I know that he didn't lie with the intention to get him raped but he still did it with bad intentions (manipulation), his lack of knowledge and arrogance lead Ryo to have sex with random guys. In the end Akanishi was the one who had a problem with it and Ryo didn't really care so in this situation Akanishi is to blame really. I'm not an idiot, I know that suicide is not only caused by bullying there can be thousands of reasons but I don't have to list them, I just used bullying as an example and the 'list of reasons' wasn't to list more reasons to kill yourself but other variables that can affect whether you commit suicide when you're being bullied.

Just to add I'm not saying that mentally challenged people don't need to take responsibility. I was trying to express that whether something is right or wrong is subjective; most of the population already have a set of ideas of what is good or bad but that doesn't make it a fact just because most of the population think the same way. It is interchangeable, if one day everybody thought that killing people was fine then that would become a right instead of a wrong. So trying to determine who is at fault with your own moral scope is wrong in the first place because everyone has their morals/viewpoints that they live by and to them it is the norm. If someone does something 'bad' but to them it is completely fine/normal then you can't really blame them, only when someone does something 'bad' knowingly (emotionally and mentally) can you hold them accountable.

Again, you say Akanishi doesn’t have common sense but previously stated that everyone is different and everyone has different morals/views and we can’t judge them so you contradict yourself yet again. Akanishi didn’t have any bad intentions whatsoever, he tried to move their relationship along and it backfired, that’s all. Anyhow I believe we both elaborated our sides and won’t come to an agreement therefore I suggest we stop this argument.

Well but Ryo knew what he was doing is “wrong” in a sense of he, himself thought it wasn’t right. So shouldn’t he be held accountable?! I simply stated that Akanishi by no means is at fault for what ryo has done. You say Akanishi is to blame and then proceed to say determining who’s at fault is simply wrong. You just contradicted yourself twice. Again, I’m really not trying to be mean and we obviously won’t come to an agreement so we might as well stop. I’m just not fond of hypocrisy but then again everyone is a paradox so hypocrisy is inevitable. (ᵔᴥᵔ)

I do agree that we won't come to an agreement but I just want to say I didn't contradict myself, him testing Ryo without any prior knowledge of his state of mind and past is due to his lack of intelligence or negligence, it doesn't stem from his differentiately/morals.

Intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with knowing personal stuff about another person and Ryo also doesn’t know anything about Akanishi’s past/childhood. Maybe if they talked to each other for once they wouldn’t be so unsure about each other’s feelings but that’s off topic ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ

Again, what I said previously does apply to Ryo's situation, he was not mentally stable at the moment to make a sound decision; to consider the consequences of his actions. He has a trauma and Akanishi triggered it by saying he has a gf so he fell back to his roots, decisions made on instinct does not apply to what I said. Akanishi is at fault, whether you like it or not even if it's just 1% or 100%, he was the one who created the situation, if you say he's 100% not at fault then you're just biased. What I said previously; determining who's at fault was in reply to your previous answer; was just a general overview, it doesn't apply to every single situation because the statement I gave only puts emphaisis on people's morals/viewpoints to hold someone accountable for their actions. But with Ryo's and Akanishi's situation, I stated Akanishi is at fault to some degree because he triggered the event since it doesn't concern his morals/viewpoints what I stated before cannot be used in this situation so it doesn't make me a hypocrite :) I would like to have ended it when you said it but since you accused me of being a hypocrite I had to explain that I wasn't.

But he didn't make the effort to know, to manipulate someone you have to know everything about them especially if you require a particular response since Akanishi didn't do this it makes me question his intelligence.

Ryo also didn’t make the effort of knowing and Akanishi didn’t try to manipulate him, he tried to get a reaction out of Ryo and didn’t know how else to do it since he wasn’t sure of his feelings nor Ryo’s. And yeah you did contradict yourself. You say humans are complicated and complex but then say it was instinctively and Ryo doesn’t have to be responsible for this kind of decision. You blame Akanishi and judge him and yet you say a person can not judge another. You say right and wrong are subjective and not definitive but yet you say Akanishi was in the wrong. You say you aren’t bias yet you say u don’t like/sympathize with Akanishi but like/sympathize with Ryo. I, on the other hand have never said that I don’t like Ryo and I do understand why he reacted that way but it is still not Akanishi’s fault. I didn’t call you a hypocrite, I said you sometimes contradict yourself and that somethings you’ve stated were hypocritical and I’ve said EVERYONE is a paradox so hypocrisy is inevitable but nvm (*'ω'*)

*Sigh* I'm not talking to you anymore, you don't seem to get what I'm trying to say, I have clearly stated that I'm not contradicting myself but you seem to think that I do so let me say it clearly one more time.
1."Ryo also didn’t make the effort of knowing" - ???...Wtf are you on about, when I said that I meant that Akanishi didn't make an effort to know him to manipulate him.

2. "he tried to get a reaction out of Ryo...nor Ryo's" - yeah, that's called manipulating.

3. "And yeah you did contradict yourself" - no I didn't, humans are complex because they're hard to understand, I already said in my second response to you this, "they do things that don't benefit them, entangle in meaningless relationships, pursue their desires and do things on instinct" - this is what makes humans complex; instinct included. When you do things on instinct it doesn't define you as a person, like when I bump into a person I automatically say 'sorry' whether it's my fault or not because it happens often and it became a habit but in reality I don't really mean it or care; from an outsider's POV I may seem polite but I know I'm not, it was a habit. The same as Ryo, he tries to solve his problems with sex hence his high libido, when Akanishi was out at the christmas party and sleeping with another girl (Ryo seems to think this way); he goes out and fucks one too and when Akanishi lied his trauma was triggered and then got fucked. For many years he's been alleviating/avoiding his pain through sex, so when Akanishi lied to him that was the first thing he thought of when he left the house.

4. "You blame...in the wrong" - I said it's wrong to judge people based on your own moral compass or feelings, I didn't do that though, I'm stating facts.

5. Just because I don't sympathise with Akanishi doesn't mean I'm biased against him, how am I being biased? I simply said that he triggered the event so no matter what you say he has some responsibility for what happened to Ryo, even if it's as little as 1%. I sympathise with Ryo because he's easier to understand, not because he's likable or anything.

6. I didn't contradict myself you just didn't read my responses clearly.

There’s a difference between habit and instinct. Acting on instinct is for example when you’re being attracted and act out of fear or when you have to pee, you pee. I said if they had talked it wouldn’t have happened. I think we missed each other’s points there. Its called influencing not manipulating but ok. Again you ARE NOT stating facts you simply express your opinion. Just like I’m expressing mine. Akanishi certainly triggered Ryo but he’s still not responsible for Ryo’s decisions. I read your comments thoroughly and I still believe you contradicted yourself. Anyway, we both agreed on ending this argument and I hope you have a great day (*^ω^*)

I know there’s a difference between habit and instinct but they can both be used in this situation. Ryo has a habit thus when triggered he acted out on instinct on his habit. Akanishi directly manipulated Ryo because he wanted a fixed response from him, the definition of influence is “the capacity to have an effect on the character, development, or behaviour of someone or something, or the effect itself”, ‘the capacity’ means there’s a chance meaning that it is not intentional but Akanishi intentionally did it meaning he manipulated him. I am stating facts because I said Akanishi manipulated him and triggered the situation; both of these are facts not opinion based. Akanishi triggered Ryo and holds accountability for what happened because Ryo was not in the right state of mind to make a sound decision. If Ryo was in a normal state of mind and had the capacity to make decisions then Akanishi wouldn’t be at fault.

If I could, I would smooch your sexy brain...ლ(´ڡ`ლ)

I've read all these replies an no offence but I really do think you're being a little contradictory and biased. You say you sympathise with Ryo cause he's easier to understand but in order to have an unbiased opinion you must be able to see from both points of view and it's clear you can't see from Akanishis.
Also there's a difference between general influence and manipulation. “Influence is the process of getting someone else to WANT to do, react, think, or believe the way you want them to.” Manipulation is defined as “exerting devious influence over a person for your own advantage” So Akanishi WANTED him to admit he loves him but obviously doesn't control him to aka doesn't manipulate him. Moreover I'd say Akanshi has a trauma imagine if you saw your dad cheating on you mum and using you as an excuse to see the person their having an affair with at such an early age. When your younger you're more impressionable so you'd think it was the norm. Then later on he copies his dad in being possessive cause thats his only male role model and norm in his life. But all the people he's dated say he's overbearing leaving him insecure and wondering If there's something wrong with him. So he decides to stop loving but then he falls for Ryo, but wonders what if Ryo will leave him aswell just like the rest so he wants to make sure he won't leave so then lies that he has a girlfriend because if Ryo really loved him, Akanishi feels Ryo would say so inorder for to Akanishi to break up. So how is it Akanishis fault that Ryo has a trauma which doesn't allow him to admit his feeling? (Spoiler- it's not)

I’m trying to be unbiased as possible and believe it or not I do see things from both their perspectives; including Akanishis. I sympathised with Ryo because he is easy to understand but that doesn’t make me biased for him, with Akanishi he is harder to understand because I’m not sure if he has a trauma or had the inclination to become the person he is today. In contrast to you, i’m more inclined to believe that Akanishi always had the possibility to be who is without the influence of his father because the reaction he had when knowing that his father cheated and has a kept lover is “I want one too”. Jealously and possessiveness are feelings that cannot be learned but felt, he learned from his father to keep the person he liked hidden away but not the feelings he had in that situation. Purely from their upbringing and morals, both are not at fault because in Akanishi’s POV testing Ryo was normal, like you said he believed that he could prove whether Ryo loved him through his test; although not normal and there could have been better ways for Ryo to admit his love; to him this was the norm so I don’t blame him. The same is with Ryo, he has a trauma and acted accordingly to it, he was put in a vulnerable situation by someone else and didn’t have the capacity to think about his actions, I don’t blame Ryo either. But it’s not as easy as that, we can’t tell who is right or wrong purely from their moral standpoint but we need to take into consideration their factual standpoint as well. Regardless of Akanishi’s past or morals he was the one who created the situation, his choice was non-compulsory and was based out of his selfish desire to get Ryo to admit he loved him. Although he had a different intention his actions still caused Ryo to be in an vulnerable situation, if Akanishi didn’t test him then Ryo wouldn’t have gone out and get fucked, these are facts. We can’t get to B without going through A, is the situation we have here so regardless, Akanishi is partly to blame. Honestly no matter how unbiased I am this is the conclusion I come to. If you still don’t understand what I’m trying to express than there’s no point in conversing anymore because I’ve said what I needed to say and dragging it on is pointless.

Everyone understood what you’re trying to express but not everyone agrees with you. Ryo and Akanishi are fuck buddies (as the title indicates), Ryo shouldn’t be upset about Akanishi getting a girlfriend unless he liked Akanishi. Flat out asking Ryo would mean that he had to unveil his own feelings and he wasn’t ready for that out of his fear of rejection, which lead him to what he did/said. Again Akanishi didn’t know about Ryo’s trauma and thus couldn’t have predicted that outcome. Trauma is a very personal thing and you decide who you share it with. Akanishi didn’t know what Ryo’s trigger was and he didn’t have any malice intentions. Kstar explained the difference between influencing (what Akanishi did) and manipulating very well so I believe that is understood. Now Ryo did make a conscious decision and he was able to distinguish between his (according to his own morals) right and wrong. He just didn’t care in that moment. And lastly, people with PTSD or panick attacks or anxiety don’t blame other people for triggering them, ESPECIALLY not those who didn’t even know they had a disorder. Triggers are inevitable.

Actually Nemu is pretty hot with some contacts and his hair styled. I agree with everything else you said. Nemu needs to step up and do some of the work in this relationship.

Nemu always tells Maya he loves him, but he never does... You said it yourself if your lover is so hadsome ofcourse you're going to get insecure... nemu is almost always straightforward but he has low selfesteem and mayu is his fist and only lover so he doesn't uderstand how they work.. or well thats what i think.. i agree that nemu should try to be more assertive in some situations but when in comes to al things love related he's still a beginner..... (づ￣ ³￣)づ

Oh I don't find Nemu ugly at all but still, Maya is just Godly! Lol

I feel like you would have to have a ton of self confidence to be in a relationship with someone who looks like Maya. So I sort-of feel for Nemu when it comes to that.

I can certainly understand that especially at the beginning of their relationship but not now. Maya has done more than enough to demonstrate his love and care for Nemu. Maya found something he likes to do and he still makes time for Nemu. It isn't going to be perfect but I still think Nemu is being selfish and making Maya miserable for no reason at this point in their relationship. If he isn't sure of anything or Maya's feelings for him by now then at least let him go so he can start healing from the loss. Not hanging by indecision. Maya is really going through it. At least speak up clearly to have it all out in the open. Ruka is right to feel sorry for Maya.