Hilda is so much stronger than me I would've caved for him in chapter 2.
Why are people arguing in the comments about whether Skylar is right or wrong why can't we just admit what Skylar said was fucking cold and ruthless when its intention was to hurt and cut deep without saying he's a horrible person or his anger isn't justified. This can go hand in hand btw. And same goes for empathizing with Cirrus's current snapping and being hurt by said words even if we can also admit he was an asshole and started this whole relationship the wrong way. No one is better than the other stop trying to think that way.
Skylar deserved that punch. Idc how hurt and angry he was at being lied to and him not understanding that Cirrus's behavior stems from his fear of abandonment, he still chose his words for malicious intentions and that's not "standing up for himself". Standing up for himself would be stepping away from someone causing him distress and shutting them out and not allowing them to hurt him anymore, not to use malicious words that would trigger someone's trauma. Be ffr.
That aside, me being happy that Skylar was punched and Cirrus being like that in front of everyone is simply bec skylar will now see how much Cirrus is internally struggling and face what cirrus is actually like when he truly doesn't care anymore. Skylar misunderstood a lot of Cirrus's actions and misdeeds as maliciousness when they were due to intense love and fear, so now that he'll face real loathing he'll understand this isn't the same as what happened before. It also allows Cirrus to finally shed the nice persona he kept up all the time to mimick the orange haired guy (imysorry i cant remember his name ) and yea there was something twistedly satisfying about this chapter despite the dread that kept gnawing at my core.
the way not a single word you said was wrong and also capsulated exactly what i thought
yess exactly!!
ur so based
Do me a favor, read this and then tell me you still feel the same way:
https://www.docdroid.net/2fZmz40/why-does-he-do-that-pdf
Both of these characters use their past to abuse one another. Cirrus is more loud and clumsy with his manipulation. Skylar is avoidant and wields his words with devastating accuracy and knows how to cut others down using a quiet manipulation.
They're both terrible. And I love them both. Here's to hoping they can actually grow into decent people at some point in this manhwa.
I don't understand how will that change my opinion when I already think both of them are doing terrible shit to each other??!! I don't think their intention is malicious all the time or they're intentionally choosing to be harmful with the intent of being evil, but it's a culmination of trauma responses and ptsd that leads them to lash out, manipulate, and drive situations in a way that ends up being harmful.
Your description of their manipulation techniques is correct, but it's important to also note that this is not a skill they wield but real unconscious behavior they exhibit without intentionally meaning harm in an evil way. They could know their words/actions can hurt someone in the current situation, current moment, but are unaware of their behavior on the grand scheme of things. This is why I love them and also hope they can heal and develop into decent people, and I hope they come to realize that their actions are wrong, the both of them.
Yeah, the reason I suggested the book was because it explains that the idea that abused people go on to abuse other people is a myth.
Abusing your partner is ALWAYS a choice. It's a choice that abusive people make because it gets them the results they're looking for.
Ahh I see... You're right. I do agree with that take, but i still think despite that choice people who abuse others due to their own abuse are also unconsciously leaning towards those choices even if it's a choice. It's just how their brain reacts now. For example Cirrus has borderline personality disorder (very obviously so) and as a result he keeps going hot and cold and reacts very irrationally at any sign of Skylar possibly leaving him or abandoning him. Going from crying to "I hate you so much" to explosive rage. Bpd people can be very manipulative and are hard to actually be in a relationship with, but while it is a choice they make to cry or rage or hurt or say that word, they're choices based on their inner turmoil as well and choices their brain only thinks of because it lacks rationality.
Y'all never satisfied with whatever Jiho does and y'all never see any fault in Inwoo, it's embarrassing.
Both are complex characters who contributed to this shit they're now in, and even Inwoo who everyone felt indignant on his behalf is now thinking "i wonder if my mother left the country. I wonder if that phonecall Jiho arranged with her will be our last" and it's not in a 'i hope she never appears again' way so lol. Some of the people here are not and will never be ready for the take that Inwoo might actually have overreacted and would rethink what happened and maybe think that talking to his mum wasn't equal to forgiving her.
In any case, I see they haven't talked it out exactly and that Inwoo is resorting to sex again because that's the only way he knows how to express his emotions (it's a common occurrence now) and idk why y'all are pressed they haven't talked like to me it makes sense they won't talk first thing given their personalities. Jiho is so high on his new determination to prove his love for Inwoo and support him any way he can, and Inwoo is riding the high of being loved the way he wished it was expressed to him. Addressing what had happened will force an awkward atmosphere and for now they miss each other too much to want that kind of dump. They will talk about it (hopefully) just doesn't have to be the same exact day they reunite.
Edit: before someone yells "Even if he rethinks it now it doesn't justify what Jiho did!!!!" And yeah it doesn't that's why i never said that.
Edit 2: for everyone saying "leaving his job isn't a big deal!" Bruh he wasn't hoping for you to think so?? He didn't do it to be like 'see how great i am? I did this for you!' and if you think someone doing something like that to care foe their loved one means so then I'm sorry to you for whatever happened in your childhood that led to that sort of thinking. This is just someone who rethought his priorities and adjusted his life accordingly, don't read too much into it.
They hated Jesus because he told the truth. Speak your mind
They are too biased with what happened before and somehow couldn't accept his form of redemption, I think.
I honestly don't know what they are looking for Jiho's redemption. Talking about the problem has never been the only type of communication, especially in love. Imho, it's not like Jiho is brushing off everything that happened or they have argued until now, but he is trying to communication his acre and love by trying to understand Inwoo more, to be with him more, to make him feel loved and reduce the loneliness because now he KNOWS that Inwoo is lonely and feels unloved. I think his action right now is much more impactful than just sitting down, and said the word "I'm sorry for bla bla, but I've always love you" because words can be bullshit, but action, at least is more real. Inwoo is insecure. And will an insecure person believes in only words? I don't think so, because they will kept denying, and when their loneliness hit again, they will continue to feel that they are indeed unloved.
I could kiss you for this
٩(///❛ᴗ❛///)۶ hehehe
Well, the feeling's the same cuz reading ur comment made me feel glad that there's still people who tried to understand Jiho's and Inwoo's personality and how realistic the author is as they made them imperfect and flawed. The Jiho who is insensitive to Inwoo's feelings as he grew up in a relatively loving family and the awkward and insecure Inwoo who cannot express his emotion well because of lack of love in his entire life.
Jiho is wrong (I'm pissed off too at some point) but it was somehow inevitable to happen because of how different they are. So, Inwoo is also at some fault for the whole thing to go south. Yet, Jiho is not without redemption... and right now he is trying in a new way that will make Inwoo feel loved once again.
heavy on the “Some of the people here are not and will never be ready for the take that Inwoo might actually have overreacted” part. a lot of people here have trouble accepting the fact that you can have a mental illness and still have faults. like, you can hurt someone and your mental illness does not make that okay. doesn’t necessarily mean you’re a horrible person, just means that you did something wrong like a normal person. not at all saying jiho wasn’t wrong btw (bc ik someone will twist my comment lmao)
I don't know how can they move forward from this. While I think Cirrus understood Skylar's trauma (despite being a dick and manipulating it earlier in the story) Skylar doesn't get his. It's hard already to deal with someone with BPD but it's even harder if you /don't/ understand they have it. In Skylar's POV Cirrus's lies seem manipulative and sinister, holding dirty amusement, while in actuality Cirrus's stupid cycling around and his lies are due to the intense fear of being abandoned and left behind, yet again. What Skylar just told him is the worst thing possible to tell someone healthy, let alone someone in that state, shivering and begging and bearing their heart. I'm not saying Cirrus didn't fuck up, it just doesn't justify Skylar being an asshole, saying words he knows will cut deep.
Given reassurances and help, they can overcome the previous lies with understanding and stopping the pattern, having Cirrus secure in their relationship and learn to be completely honest (especially once Skylar understands/why/ he lies) but idk how can they resolve whatever shit Skylar just told Cirrus. Some words you can never take back, and that's one example of them. This is why many people fear sharing private matters and why relationships are hard for them.
Never use someone's very core weakness/trauma against them like this It's not right, whether it be Skylar or Cirrus. Aaahh i feel sick. This update had me crying.
You're sooo right...
I agree but honestly that response from Skylar made sense (I am not saying that it was right). As you said he knew it would cut deep and that’s what he wanted in that moment since he is just a teenager and of course he wouldn’t handle the situation with maturity. I think he’ll regret it later when he comes back to his senses
Not denying this. I understand Skylar, just not justifying it. And apart from that, I just don't know how can you take back those kinds of words once they're said. You can move on and get back together, but you'll always remember this was once said to you. Now given Cirrus's already unstable mentality, this shit will probably be his toppling point rn :'D
Facts, you’re so on point! Loved your takes in the comments
I'm actually pissed cause i stayed up till 3am rn on a work night only for a stupid ending like that. It doesn't even make sense that Isaac is the killer bec in earlier chapters he was with Giselle while someone got killed. Also people were killed before he broke the lock.
Her lack of hesitation to kill him made no sense at all. This entire scene was so out of character for everyone. And even if it's Isaac and he used the "hunt" to hurt them, why tf would he procure a coat and get up and everything and how. Just... Yeah. Also new kid is standing in the sun lol so uhhh... Also they never explained and got into depth about Tuitte's issues with Olivia and author made it seem like Tuitte wanted to leave her but couldn't, physically, but here we are.
This is just plain stupid like what was the point of purpose of that ending what did we achieve? What about the "mistress" did her story end just like that? Idk mate it doesn't even make sense that Isaac killed all those people while having no memory all the time and not show any manifestations of memory loss, unexplained injuries from struggle, and bloodied clothes/hands. Haa... I need to forget about this stupid manhwa so i can go to sleep for whatever remainder of the night I have. I hope the author's bedbugs always bite and that their socks are always wet and their cereal always soggy and their hair always frizzy and their mosquitoes always loud but invisible.
RIGHT?! IT MADE ME ANGRY AND SAD TOO
I've been dreading each chapter update mostly for the comments that will ensue and yet I end up scrolling down anyway...
A lot of you are scandalized for Inwoo's sake, and I get that, but I feel like a lot of you are that hurt and angry in his stead because you might be in his position too, lashing out at the possibility of someone making you face your demons rather than cheer you on while you run fast from them.
Also a lot of you forget Jiho isn't exactly a stable person either, and just because he finally faced his own demons doesn't mean he's now a healthy human being.
That being said, the reason Jiho was able to overcome his problems and mental issues (which aren't even fully solved imo) is because Inwoo pushed him and gave him that nudge. Not everyone needs support in the same way. Some may need it in delicate gentle forms, others need a harsher approach. Some may need it in form of words, others may need it in actions. Jiho had to face the possibility of losing what he loved for him ro decide facing the demons is way better than living all his life regretting not doing so.
Jiho has been supportive to Inwoo all along. He understood him, stood by him, and defended him to other people who did not understand his position and only seen things in pity of his ex, which was unfair. Y'all speak of Jiho like he's some loser who Inwoo somehow managed to let into his life like Inwoo is a poor judge of character or smth. It's like Inwoo is allowed to be unstable and gloomy and downright cause someone distress over seeing him deteriorate and be traumatized, but Jiho having cagey responses and fear of shame due to family trauma???? How DARE he. He is bad for Inwoo. Wow aren't y'all so righteous?
It's very distressing to see someone slowly die before your eyes and not be able to do anything. He can't even be depressed or affected by it otherwise he'll be repeating what his ex wife did and that won't solve anything. He's not given space to breakdown over watching Inwoo's spirit leave his body slowly. He tried being gentle, talking to him about it, slowly nudging him. It didn't work, obviously, so it reached a point where forcefully pushing him out of his comfort zone and putting him in front of the door to the room where his demons lay is the only way. He's not dictating what Inwoo should say to his mother or treat her as or forgive her, he just wants him to GO into the room and face her so he can break that cycle and have any development instead of wasting away.
It's uncomfortable, yes. It's cruel. It's betrayal. But one day Inwoo will realize that was the best thing someone has ever done to him, risking their relationship and risking being hated just to see the person they love be human again. Y'all keep hating on Jiho like he's so dumbass monster but Jiho knew he'll hate him for it yet still did it because in his mind there was no other way. And please don't pull the "take him to therapy" card. 1- you think inwoo wouldn't have reacted the same way had Jiho suggested that? 2- a therapist would've also recommend Inwoo meet up with his mother had he told them what Jiho is trying
If you don't have adequate empathy and legitimate professional takes on how to deal with a mentally ill partner and think the best thing to do is coddle them in their decline and deterioration and tell them you love them even if they become nothing but a walking corpse or they're still lovely to u even if they stay in bed all day refuse to eat or shower or see the sun, that you won't force them to get up when the nice way isn't working, then please for the love of god do not be with mentally ill people they deserve better than this. If coddling and cooing and "aww I understand you baby it's okay you're nice the way u are" is a cure I suppose therapists would've been out of jobs wouldn't they? Smfh
appreciate this take alot!
This is coming from someone who had to be slapped in the face metaphorically a lot to face what I'm doing and what I'm reaching. Sometimes you get so lost in your own misery you forget your misery is also the business of the people you choose to let into your life wether you like it or not, and if Inwoo wanted his misery only to himself then he wouldn't have dated Jiho after what happened with his ex wife. The last bit of ch.75 when Jiho remembers how Inwoo must've felt understood when he mentioned he also has stuff that feel hard to do when it's easy to others, that coupled with inner dialogue Inwoo had throughout the manhwa, shows that Inwoo found comfort in Jiho being scared of his own demons like him. He felt comfort and camaraderie that Jiho also relied on him, isolated like him, scared like him, and unstable. That he's not alone, and for that reason Jiho must understand him. This is why the first thing he lashed out with now is "just because you managed to overcome your own problems doesn't mean I have to!" And it shows how it affected him to know Jiho is getting better. In a way it's like leaving him behind.
Do you understand what kind of a sick mentality this is? And I'm not saying that to hate on Inwoo, in fact I relate to him the most. But it's to truly make you see how he's SICK and needs HELP and this help you think he should get, aka the help he wants, is for Jiho to also be isolated with him. That's not what he needs, it's what he wants, and it's very wrong.
What he needs is to be pushed out of his comfort zone and face reality. He needs to actually TRY to get better instead of crying woe is me all the time and demand you wipe his tears or cry with him. He needs to take actual steps. God forbid someone does this, now they're the bad guy.
finally someone said this!! I've been so confused to see many people just blame jiho without understanding the reason why jiho did what he did
Fr finally someone who doesn't just mindlessly hates jiho but actually understands the intent behind his actions
I don't agree about jiho understood inwoo. He clearly doesn't. Inwoo said he doesn't want to have anything to do with his mother, so why force him to? Inwoo is her victim, yet jiho can't comprehend and still thinking that it's better for inwoo to forgive her??
We can't even compare jiho and inwoo demons, since inwoo as a child almost got killed because if it ffs. And here jiho trying to brush inwoo trauma off just because he want to make inwoo "normal" as soon as possible.
And wasn't their relationship and inwoo mental state is getting better before they met his mother? People doesn't always need to face their demon to get happy. Especially forced to.
True...
I see your point, but Jiho didn't compare demons or compare traumas, and Jiho doesn't want Inwoo to forgive her he just wanted him to hear her out. What Inwoo responds with is up to him, but to have had at least taken that step.
I am not saying that this is the /best/ course of action for Inwoo, but as it currently stands it's probably the only one that Jiho can think of.
"And here jiho trying to brush inwoo trauma off just because he want to make inwoo "normal" as soon as possible." It's not for selfish desires as you so put it. It's not like Jiho is the one benefiting if Inwoo gets better. He wants Inwoo to get better. You wording it like that makes it seem like Jiho wants Inwoo to fit into the mold of normality he believes is correct when that isn't the case since Jiho loved and dated Inwoo the way he was.
"And wasn't their relationship and inwoo mental state is getting better before they met his mother?" If you have ptsd and I distract you with something you enjoy and makes you happy so you forget about your ptsd and not resolve it, then you are forced to be reminded of the ptsd because something pops up so you end up breaking down then you never got better, you only made yourself believe you're getting better by brushing up leaves and dirt to hide the trauma. Inwoo was not getting better, he was just happily distracted with a relationship but rule no.1 getting into relationships doesn't cure people. Being told that you're loved doesn't cure people. Being hugged and coddled and given happy things doesn't cure people. Being told that you are right to hate your abuser doesn't cure people. The person must come to terms with things in their head to finally move on, and that's what I mean by facing demons. It doesn't have to be literal.
In this case, though, Jiho cannot dictate how Inwoo thinks, and he's not a therapist to help with the mental resolve. And more importantly he's not stable enough of a person to attempt so. He tried what he could and found best at the time which was facing demons in a literal sense even if after hearing his mother he gets to lash out at her and yell and curse her for doing this had he deemed her excuses invalid. That doesn't mean he'll instantly get better after meeting her, but it'll be a start they can go from to heal instead of Inwoo conveniently brushing up dirt and leaves over it, ignoring its existence.
Stop putting Jiho on a stake and trying to dictate what "rational" or "right" thing Jiho could've done when Jiho is mentally unstable as well and not rational, and that right or wrong is very subjective in these cases. Jiho did what he could because he loves Inwoo, and one day Inwoo will understand that and be thankful cause who knows maybe this is the very uncomfortable push he needed to actually start to heal.
You can recognize that Jiho's intentions are good, or at least that he's doing what he thinks is best, and also see that what he did was extremely harmful and only based on his limited perspective. Even mental health professionals acknowledge healing from trauma is hard and Jiho thinks he can fix things just by making Inwoo meet his mom? Also it's pretty well known that even if someone does confront their trauma to heal, it has to be done with their consent and in a controlled environment, not as an ambush. Inwoo is allowed to have boundaries and to ask his partner to respect them. Jiho is allowed to want to help his partner heal but the way he went about it just added on to Inwoo's trauma and made him feel like he's lost the only support he had. Having good intentions doesn't preclude or absolve someone from causing harm; being flawed or in recovery doesn't mean you shouldn't be held accountable for your actions.
You're correct and again I never said Jiho is right, I'm speaking of his perspective. And in hus perspective he needed to do something and he couldn't figure out what that something is. People are bashing Jiho like he's intentionally harming Inwoo, saying he's undeserving of him, when this perpetuates the intention to awareness of being an ass on purpose. He isn't, he is trying his best and he fumbled and thought facing his.mother would solve this. Who knows maybe it will despite the crude way it was done, maybe Inwoo just needed a little prepping to this and consent to it, but facing would still help. Maybe it won't. But holding Jiho at the stake like he's a monster undeserving of love or being by Inwoo's side when all he did was in hopes to get the man he loves to be better is just... entitled tbh. No one has ever been in his place, and if they were they would understand why he did it and that it's not exactly right but humane in it's faultiness instead of blindly hating him.
I never said that jiho is the one who compared their problems. I said we.
Also, it's not just any ptsd. His mother abandoned him with an abuser. Her decision almost killed him. What part of it that makes you think that it would be better to hear her reasons? What kind of reason jiho and you expect to hear that can somehow elevate the trauma that inwoo had? Why should inwoo, as a victim, had to hear her out? Why should a vuctim forgave people who hurt them?? We are human being with feelings, not some kind of a robot that can be proggrammed to not hating or feeling angry on something.
There's a lot of ways to ease the trauma, and one of the important part of it is that the victim themself is comfortable while doing it. Not by forcing it on them.
I get that the first time jiho might not grasped the situation yet, but to do it the second time??? Wth?
Now that he forced met his demons, did he looks better? Did anything improved at all? It's only makes thing harder for them both. And as jiho said at the end, he regretted that he dont understand inwoo and did something that hurt him instead.
Even jiho got it that what he did is wrong.
I see we're both talking about different points so there's no use explaining further, but to make it short anyway: I'm not saying what Jiho did is right, I'm saying it's what he thought was best atm and we can't dictate whether it's what's best for Inwoo's condition or not. What we can agree on is that it hurt him which is understandable, but there's no need to have Jiho on a stake as a bastard who doesn't deserve Inwoo just because he did what he thought was best to save someone he can see slowly dying. If he realizes his approach to solving the issue was hurtful then good for him, that means he's maturing, and I can't say the same about the people in the comments hating him.
Once again commenting on this manhwa which I run to its updates against my will (i just wanna know what will happen so bad that I willingly let myself be angered)
But nothing in this manhwa beats my annoyance at the people who hate Alphonso. I understand wavering for Raphael, he's hot and unhinged in a way and has that angsty edgelord persona that's just so delectable, but rooting for whateverhisnamewas redhead bastard? "He's so fun he matches aridane" uhhh I doubt the assholes and redflags and te people who end up being domestic abusers had that aura from the get go otherwise be with them from the start? Unless, well, you're stupid, or a masochist, or both.
That aside, hating Alphonso?? Idk why peoplr keep saying he's boring or he's not doing enough for Ari or a coward, when none of you are taking his position and upbringing into consideration. He's not like the other two, he's not in a position to freely make risky decisions based on desire and beg a little until his parents are convinced. Everything he does has a direct consequence on the throne and nation. Besides that, taking his upbringing into consideration, Alphonso has been raised to not desire anything and not hold on to anything and try his best to avoid his father's wrath because the one to face it later on was his mother. You'd think "haa his mother is dead now he can finally rebel" Joke's on you he has ptsd now that his mother died BECAUSE of him holding on to something he desired for the first time. It's like a proof that he can't do this, yet he still tries because he loves Ariadne. His hands are tied as a prince and future king. Having Ariadne isn't an easy thing and idk why y'all think it is.
Give the man a break, he was raised to not be too frivolous or too enthusiastic or want something or go outside the lanes his father had drawn for them, so i guess he's sorry you think he's boring bec of that. He's slowly breaking free and doing things he never would've imagined doing, for Ariadne. I still root for you, Alphonso, regardless of who you end up with or if you don't. I just want him to actually finally find peace.
Yeeees!! Alphonso, all the way ε=ε=(ノ≧∇≦)ノ
Yassss team Alphonso always!!
I love how we're all desperately barking at the manga page waiting for the update like feral dogs.
I scroll down and see people begging harder than richard for the next update and you know what? Same
Ok uk what I respect "I'll burn the world for you" Lariessa. I understand, gurl.