"I almost fell for that face again" well you're stronger than me Hilda because the moment he did that face I folded like origami without a fight
I understand how everyone's bothered by this and I'll start my comment by establishing that I am in fact part of the Jaekyung hate club and screamed in the comment section multtiple times before, so it's not that I'm defending, jic.
However to logically dissect this, there are two points that make this sex different than the ones before and make us NOT back at square one.
1)The power dynamics here shifted. Before, Dan was forced to have sex for the payment for his grandma's hospital bills. He didn't get a say in the matter or a say in how it was done, and his mentality convinced him he can't either. On the other hand, it might not look this way rn cause Jaekyung hates not being in control so much he exudes so much false confidence (and it seems to work since y'all convinced this is square one again) but he's not the one in control in this situation, it's Dan. He's the one who needs Dan, he's the one trying (but can't wait for it to be even more desperate and pathetic) to make Dan come back, and he's the one who stands to lose in this situation. You may think Dan is overpowered again, but nah. He's the one who suggested it, and while ik someone will say "but he was forced to, to get rid of him because he's stalking and harassing him" no guys he really wasn't forced to use that method at all. Also Dan has a lot of dirt on this bitch he could've used any of them to push him away completely.
2) This is the first time we see Jaekyung taking his time with foreplay and all to give Dan pleasure instead of solely focusing on his own. He thinks he's doing this to prove a point, but with Dan"s repeated rebuttals it only proves how delulu he is and how he's just in denial at his own feelings towards Dan. He doesn't realize this, so his inner monologue seems disjointed, but he does admit Dan us different to him than the ones before. And this sex scene is not rape, I'll stand on this hill tbh.
We /are/ seeing character development in both characters, it's just not at the level everyone wants yet because it's not logical to go from 0 to 100 in so little time without triggers, too. If you go back and reread early chapters you'll see Dan was different and Jaekyung was also different than what they are now. Give it time, I'm trying to also hope that the road for Jaekyung redemption is still ongoing, and I'm glad Dan isn't giving in. I think it was intentional and metaphoric that this sex scene is from Jaekyung's pov and we are deprived of Dan's.
To re at point 1, I'm not saying Dan wanted the sex that's why he suggested it, I'm saying Dan suggested it as a point if humiliation to Jaekyung HIMSELF. It was throwing Jaekyung's assholism back at him in the same form he subjected Dan to it. Jaekyung used to use sex as his trump card humiliation, so now Dan is like "isn't that what you like? Okay" and started using it too, while also taking control of what he does and doesn't, and will call him out on his actions during. He makes a point of telling him he doesn't even want it, so it only serves to prove that Jaekyung is the one who's horny for Dan. I found it absolutely hilarious because Jaekyung KNOWS this and he just flips the mental table into "look at you enjoying yourself too" only to be constantly denied lmao.
thank you
"And this sex scene is not rape, I'll stand on this hill tbh." I wish there was a way to unlike a comment because this is sick. Tf you mean this sex scene isn't rape? You're literally downplaying Jaekyung's actions bu literally ignoring the fact that he's manipulating Kim Dan into having sex with him. I don't need to read the rest of this nonsense to comprehend what it is you're trying to do, and I suggest you don't go down that hill. These are the exact excuses rape apologist use. You digust me.
*but
WORD!!
And to clear up something, I only liked because I agree with one part, "Jaekyung taking his time with foreplay and all to give Dan pleasure instead of solely focusing on his own." because I can see that Jaekyung is desperate for Kim Dan's attention here, seeing how much he did to find him in the first place. However, that doesn't excuse that fact that he invaded his boundaries multiple of times pressured him into having sex with him. That is manipulative rape since penetration is involved. Stop finding excuses for horrible fucking characters you weirdos.
*by not but I can't fucking spell for shit
You made many good points! The point about Dan being the one who has the power and is in control is exactly what I think :)
Jaekyung has taken time with foreplay before (e.g. the scene with the nipple play when they watched the old movie), but this chapter shows that he’s broadening his horizons when it comes to caring about Dan’s pleasure, as we saw with the oral sex.
I agree that there is character development for both Dan and Jaekyung. Dan is getting more agency in his life and is able to make his own decisions around Jaekyung. Everything used to be “whatever you say sir,” but that is no longer the case. And Jaekyung is becoming more open to change (e.g. living a different lifestyle), and is being positive by serving others in the community with no desire for payment or recognition. So yeah, they are both developing, which should be obvious to readers.
I like that we finally get to know Jaekyung’s pov during sex and what he thinks of Dan. Like you, I find it funny that he projects some of his own feelings onto Dan, like when he said “Kim Dan, you never stood a chance against me.” That may be true, but right now it’s actually Jaekyung who doesn’t stand a chance against Dan lol
You mentioned that you are not saying that Dan wanted the sex. But I think a part of him deep down does want a physical connection to Jaekyung because he still loves him. Dan is trying to emotionally disconnect himself, but the feelings are still there.
wow, I really like to read your personal thoughts about this manhwa cause you have always been mesmerizing my eyes, thank you princess!!
also about what you have said about dan who wanted to have sex with JK is very clear for all the readers to see and recognize but oh yeahh xD
Okay xD if telling me I'm a rape apologist makes you feel like a good person then you can.
Every other time they fucked because of this was horrible and manipulative rape and I've hated Jaekyung more every time it happened. I've had an angry rant about the time he gagged and blindfolded him then allowed someone to see him like that, without his consent. This time though the one to suggest and initiate the rape is Dan. Yes the kissing was explicitly denied by Dan yet Jaekyung went for it, but the choice to continue was still within Dan's jurisdiction since he clearly can deny Jaekyung some liberties during it, then he sure as hell can deny him the whole thing if he wished. Had he told Jaekyung "you know what I don't want to do this anymore" after he was the one to suggest, and Jaekyung then pushed him down and continued anyway then yes that would've been rape.
Some of y'all need to fix your black and white mentality because me saying this one specific scene isn't strictly rape doesn't mean I deny all the rape that went on before it, the ones that may happen after, and doesn't make me a rape apologist. If that's what you insist on thinking then sure I can't stop you. Your words won't change what my real ideologies are and aren't the law about whether I'm truly so or not.
Also I can consider that extra like a dislike for you no worries ^^
We might disagree a bit about the love part because maybe I can't fathom how can Dan even love Jaekyung in the first place with all the shit this bitch subjected him to. Like what kind of kindness did you see Dan for you to have feelings for this man, but anyway. I do think, though, that Dan had some guilt and residual emotions left from his time with Jaekyung, and while his suggestion for sex was a way to throw Jaekyung's assholism back at him, i also think it was more for Dan to prove to himself that Jaekyung is still an asshole who will take his pleasure from his body the way he did before without a care about Dan's. Jaekyung doing foreplay is what throws Dan off because why tf is he now trying to do smth mildly nice (I'd say it's not nice it's what should be expected anyway but whatever at least he's doing smth different now)
But yes I agree with you that Jaekyung is the one who never stood a chance lmao he's in denial and thinks he's hot shit
As always, thanks for your kind words :)
I really hope this is satire
Ok guess it's not
bruhh bahahahah
"Yes the kissing was explicitly denied by Dan yet Jaekyung went for it, but the choice to continue was still within Dan's jurisdiction since he clearly can deny Jaekyung some liberties during it, then he sure as hell can deny him the whole thing if he wished." Wow, that's gross... Thank you for proving my point even more. AHEM https://www.asafeplacenantucket.org/get-help/rapesexual-assault/what-is-rapesexual-assault. "Okay xD if telling me I'm a rape apologist makes you feel like a good person then you can." I don't feel like a good person for calling you that, I am a good person for calling you that because that's what the fuck you are. I hope you don't hold this mentality for real people that are in similar situations because if you do, I'll ask that you get off the internet and find a way to seek therapy in your area. There's nothing much to say. That one quote you wrote said enough for me.
You right now --> https://www.shatteringthesilence.org/blog/identifying-a-rape-apologist
Happy Valentine's day!!!
hope you are having sweet moments and joy with your loved ones
*one
Okay you can get off my comment section then this clearly wasn't a comment meant for people with reading comprehension or people who nitpick words and take them put of context.
What I said is the only but that Jaekyung did that is clearly questionable is kissing Dan. That was wrong, however the moment after that Dan didn't end the sex he clearly initiated, but kept telling him to just do it. Is what Dan went through before causing the current initiation by him? Yeah. He thinks he's proving something to Jaekyung and himself this way. Is this, however, forced onto Dan (and by that i mean the whole sex) then no i don't think so.
And I am not denying that kissing someone without consent is sexual harassment, so I don't think I need to seek help for that
I never even said so, so I suppose you need to start reading what I say properly without a judgemental or lynching lens. What I meant was clear and I had said that the whole sex idea wasn't forced on Dan, and that he has more power over Jaekyung in this particular scene, leading to a dynamic shift. If you disagree with me we can agree to disagree without you putting words into my mouth.
I never even said so, so I suppose you need to start reading what I say properly without a judgemental or lynching lens. What I meant was clear and I had said that the whole sex idea wasn't forced on Dan, and that he has more power over Jaekyung in this particular scene, leading to a dynamic shift. If you disagree with me we can agree to disagree without you putting words into my mouth.
Thank you :) Happy Valentine's Day!!
It's only 7am for me right now, so Valentine's Day has barely begun. I hope you have sweet moments and love today as well ;)
I never even said so, so I suppose you need to start reading what I say properly without a judgemental lens. What I meant was clear and I had said that the whole sex idea wasn't forced on Dan, and that he has more power over Jaekyung in this particular scene, leading to a dynamic shift. If you disagree with me we can agree to disagree without you putting words into my mouth.
Oh shit my response was sent multiple times sorry
hahaha thank you so vey much
Personally, I think Dan fell in love with Jaekyung because of his kindness towards his grandmother. Jaekyung also helped out Dan in significant ways, which only increased Dan's feelings for him.
We disagree with some things, but agree on other points. I really like your pov on their character development :)
you're welcome
oops - the reply I just made is to you!! lol
Ok novel readers you better assure me this will get insanely better because rn I'm actually boiling with hatred towards Chase. This bitch. Wtf? Like he's actually very fucking annoying and like for what??? Unprovoked too!!! So yea his redemption better be scrumptious but if it won't be much better let me know so I can lower my expectations or just drop cause my blood pressure can't fr
Its giving god complex frfr
Don't worry, if the manhwa is adapted correctly from the novel, it'll be okay. He's insane because he's on drugs to stop his ruts and as the manhwa emphasises, dominant alphas need to have freaky times to not go insane. This guy has literally only had freaky times once with Josh so he's gone completely insane. Also, the next chapter is satisfying hehe because he gets his ass handed to him.
Thank you! Your summary made me wanna continue readind!
Okay you just made this manhwa more interesting for me thank you
Am I crazy for actually enjoying the plot? Like don't get me wrong i fucking hate some stuff but I genuinely am invested guys I wanna know what Erik looks like fr, and what drove everyone to call him a monster. His initial vision of Chris and how he fell, why and how he lives like so beneath the opera, why he built it, and if he truly is Chris's fated pair.
I was feeling quite sad towards Ralph then his monologues threw me off. I do not doubt that he holds some sort of love towards chris, but I do think he also views Chris the same way the other asshole rapist alphas did. A weak omega, an object to be owned, helpless without him, nothing without him, must be his. He doesn't look at Chris as a person at all, despite all the love. He talks about him like one would talk about an object it's actually concerning, and while the whole Erik plot is fucked up, at least he's the only one who actually respects Chris as a person, as wel as his wishes.
Y'all i can't believe THE fucked up person is the one preaching for consent!!!
So I do agree with the people saying "why are you bashing hear abd calling her toxic and a creep and insecure. You know nothing about mental health and only support it to your convenience and when it's sad" and while I do agree to some extent, I still also think that just because she's suffering from mental illness doesn't mean it's not a toxic behavior. Yeah it's not right to feed into the stigma of calling her a creep and a loser, but she IS being toxic and her mental illness doesn't negate that and absolve it. Toxic people do toxic shit because they're unwell. If you think an asshole or a bully does bad shit because they're born evil then that's a skewed pov of the world where only the victims get to be "unwell" while the preparators get to be demons with grand intention.
It's good to be a mental awareness advocate, but that doesn't equal enabling
I pity her and the turmoil and pain she causes herself first and foremost (i truly think she'll self sabotage and cheat on him thinking hr alr did that only to realize she became the one thing she's been so scared of), but I genuinely feel uncomfortable reading this and reading the slow descent into greater depths of derangement. Idk it's not that I'm not empathizing. Having BPD makes me all too aware of fear of abandonment and going through extreme lengths like that, but something about HER and her thought process just makes me dislike her.
I guess because rather than internalizing that fear and panic, directing it mostly towards herself (which would make it more self destructive) she's externalizing it by demonizing her bf.. IDK something about the way she rationalizes her thoughts makes me angry
Not that I'm saying she should internalize it or shouldn't externalize it, I'm just trying to figure out which aspect of her unwellness makes me uneasy because the concept of jealousy and fear of abandonment and self-sabotaging and insecurity isn't exactly a novel idea and isn't one that deters me from enjoyment. It's just this specific girl for some reason.
I agree, but I think my full message is getting lost in translation. In that post, at multiple times I condemned her behavior. I said it's not acceptable behavior by any means, that she needs professional help/support and spoke to how detrimental her actions are to herself and her loved ones. At no point, did I ever say her behavior wasn't toxic. The point I was more so trying to make was for there to be more nuance, compassion and understanding without enabling her actions. I think someone can condemn a person's actions without condemning the person themselves. For example, I think this character's actions are very toxic, but I don't think at her core she is an evil toxic villainous character. I can have compassion for a character or person while fully condemning their actions. What's frustrating for me, is that I see other people hold this nuance/duality for characters or people where the mental health issue is anxiety or depression. It feels like all compassion gets thrown out the window when it's BPD and not depression/anxiety that's causing a person to be toxic. Having a loved one who suffers with BPD it hurts to see even when depicted fictionally, people not holding just a little bit more nuance/compassion for the character WHILE condemning and not accepting their destructive behaviors. This is really a reminder for me, that when my partner is telling me that BPD is super stigmatized that she's completely telling the truth.
Yeahh I agree with you. I didn't go check but I think your comment is what made me write mine but I didn't exactly disagree with you but more the variety of comments in general touching upon this. That being said, I 100% agree with you and it frustrates me to see characters with mental illnesses get demonized, that it becomes a black or white outlook, when it's fine to sympathize with the character while condemning the action itself. It's important to understand these characters/people do shit like that because their mind literally doesn't comprehend the consequences of them at that moment, and it's usually a self preservation mechanism.
I also didn't realize how mental illnesses and BPD specifically was stigmatized until I hot diagnosed with it and saw an acquaintance break up with her fiance the moment he also got diagnosed. It wasn't because of something he did, it's the fact he got diagnosed with it that didn't sit right with her, apparently, but she was completely fine with him day to day had she been unaware or had he not been labelled with a diagnosis. I had to take a step back from her because what the fuck lol. Anyway,,,
I will repeat tho that there's something about this specific character that has me very uncomfortable. Like I've read "Lost in the cloud" and Cirrus is a typical BPD case but I haven't felt half as uncomfortable as I do with this one and i really wonder why...
I can't even hate at this point, you chose the man leewon There's no way any of us can get angry when you're the one who's telling us gwenchanaa gwenchanaa
Does anyone even understand WHY Leewon fell in love w Caesar?? I truly don't get it
Treat this as a oldest son support button
I love them all but the lack of oldest son love is sad his story is so cute it's just mature. He's such a golden retriever boyfriend AAA like if I ever wanna settle down that's the kind of man I want. Yeri you better know how to fight
I read kiss me liar manhwa like two years or so ago and I barely remember it, but looking at the comments where people talk about details like it's a whole universe with interwebbing characters and places and cameos I feel so lost
Josh helped the main character in kiss me liar while he was pregnant and on the run by setting him up to stay with a friend and advice on the pregnancy if I remember correctly and chase is Greyson’s brother the guy who hangs around Keith a lot and went to the same college as Keith.
Yess no j went to reread but then people pull stuff about their kids and the locations like Boston and California and I'm like damn that's a whole as verse to keep up with
lol, I’m the extra’s it shows Keith and Yenwoo’s kid Spencer and he has some friend’s he plays with those are Josh and Chase’s kids. It doesn’t exactly explain it in Kiss Me Liar, hints, but doesn’t explain well. So everyone is excited to realize that when reading this one. I also saw a comment that Greyson has his own story too. Apparently this series has a novel series or something it seems like.