Valkyrie's Topics (61)

wut chapter (´・ω・｀)

http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/you_re_my_loveprize_in_viewfinder/mh/v06/c035.3/5/

Enjoy...It is friggin amazing. ^_^

A lot of readers have trouble with that extra because it seems out-of-character for Asami to willingly "share" Akihito with anyone.

For sure I don't have trouble with that haha, and technically he shared only his mouth <3_<3. It was kinda like a dare situation. And you could see Asami was angry at the thought of what Akihito was doing with Feilong when they were alone.

Yeah but for a man who keeps saying stuff like "You are mine" "I own you" and "I will tear apart anyone who touches you" that extra could be seen as a contradiction of that part of his character. The fact that we see he's angry makes it even more of a contradiction. He ought to have decked Feilong there and then and carried Aki off over his shoulder.

Not saying it isn't hot as hell. Just, y'know. Problematic.

I resolved it by thinking of it as a fantasy--a bit of fluff that didn't really happen.

Well he says lots of things :P
Feilong wasn't really interested in Akihito, he just wanted to play around with Asami. Asami was pissed at first, which is why he "lashed out" on Akihito by taunting him. But then he just found it amusing/satisfying to challenge Feilong. It wasn't about sharing, it was about comparing their skills. It just wasn't anything serious, and nobody did things behind anyone's back. Heck, Feilong forced no one.

I think there was a good bit of gamesmanship going on there between Asami and Fei Long. The problem I have with that is that neither of them were aware of how Akihito felt being in the middle of that. He was truly angry with Asami when it was over and only did that scared bunny thing where he ran to him for protection when he saw Mikhail and his men come in.

Pretty sure that was how Asami was always like. Heck, when he fucked him over and over three days straight after the Hong Kong arc Akihito was really pissed about it (or well, just as much as that extra), but Asami just wouldn't care.

Has he ever actually backed out because Akihito wasn't liking it? To me it looks like it's mostly that Akihito just doesn't mind it as much as before.

There's a big difference between being peeved because you've been fucked raw and being angry by being taunted into an unwanted threesome and having your feelings completely discounted. Not the same situations at all.

I dunno, the feelings look rather discounted if he keeps on hurting him anyway?

In any case, I stand on my point; has he ever backed out?

It's not the same kind of hurting. You really can't compare the two. In the one, it's about minor physical discomfort. In the other, it's about being psychologically tormented. Akihito is still scarred by his time with Fei Long and Asami's behavior in that extra makes it seem to Akihito that Asami doesn't really care how Akihito feels about it, that Akihito is made to worry that Asami is still angry, that Akihito is being used as an object in a dick measuring contest. This is a much bigger deal than a sore ass.

You don't have a point. You are comparing apples and oranges.

You make it sound like it's the worst thing he has ever done xD.

Asami isn't foreign to psychological torment. Even Escape and Love was all about trapping him. "You're mine", "You got into this all by yourself", blahblah. He just isn't sweet when he says those things. He clearly has full control over the situation, while he leaves Akihito having none.

I'm unsure if Asami doesn't care or just think he's a kid for complaining, that he has no reason to. Either way, it's like he's showing his side from the beginning of the manga until . And 35 year old men don't change that much in a year or two. Someone that'll rape, kill and mess with drug dealings just won't become a carebear tomorrow.

"You don't have a point. You are comparing apples and oranges."
How? I wasn't comparing anything with that statement. I just haven't seen him go "Oh, maybe he doesn't like it. Maybe I should stop".

"Minor physical discomfort"??? Excuse me, I love this manga but that is an awful euphemism. Asami wasn't just being a little too rough at sex, you know. Like Lightasus said, it's not like Asami never tortured Akihito on a psycholigical basis before, he did that many times before. This one wasn't even that serious, and Akihito was much more proactive than he usually was...he practically insisted on giving Feilong that blowjob.

As for him being really angry at Asami afterwards, it wasn't the first time either; and here it didn't even seem like he was all that angry, because it was treated more comically and almost seemed like he wanted to hide his embarrassment because he was into it.

"There's a big difference between being peeved because you've been fucked raw and being angry by being taunted into an unwanted threesome and having your feelings completely discounted."
Come on...Have you been counting the times Akihito's feelings were discounted? ^^ Every other sex scene in this manga follows the formula of being unwanted at first but then Akihito enjoying it. Only difference is this one's a threesome. :D

Seriously? You don't see the difference between intimacy between two people and an unwanted act between three people? Especially if one of those people is someone who held you captive for weeks and now your lover is making jokes about what was a very traumatic time for you?

And if Akihito insisted on giving Fei a BJ, it was because he was goaded into it, not because he wanted to. Even Fei says that Asami is being cruel. And at no point is Akihito mentally "into it." He's openly uncomfortable the entire time. So no, he didn't enjoy that. In past sex scenes, he's been mad before the sex starts and is won over by the sex. That doesn't happen here.

So yeah, there are major major differences.

I agree, I hate that chapter and the idea of using akihito like a doll during asami and feilong's domination contest. It was horrible and cruel, sure it is smut and all - but on the emotional side of it, it's disgusting. I don't want to think of this chapter as part on the story line so I see it as a fan service on the author's side because fans requested it, just an extra that didn't happen. I don't think it matches asami's character cuz he cares about akihito's emotions (as we saw in the hong kong chapters).

The threesome can't be considered as part of the main story, Sensi did it for the fans. You can;t take it as story canon. It is like the chapter where Takaba is boss to Asami Fei and Arbatov.

In that extra where he's Asami's boss, it's explicitly stated to be Akihito's dream though... He even wakes up. The second one obviously follows the same fashion. That's the hardworking manager series.

The hardworking photographer series of extra follows the canon, stays true to it etc.

Sure I see there's a certain difference, but you see, what happened between Asami and Akihito wasn't exactly fluffy vanilla sex; a lot of times it was as unwanted as you say the threesome was, and rape isn't any better if it happens in the "intimacy of two people". And here he was goaded into the threesome like he was played with by Asami many times before.
It's really not the worst thing Asami has done, he's been way more cruel.

There have been other scenes where Aki wasn't into it mentally but he reacted physically anyway, and this is the same. He's getting hard just from sucking Fei off while Asami is watching.

No, it happened many times that he was angry AFTER the sex, not just here.

I am sure everyone has their own sensitives, but to me rape with more people is worse than rape with just one rapist. That doesn't make any rape ok, but adding more people is worse--at least, I think so.

Yaoi rape doesn't work like RL rape anyway, because it serves another suppose in terms of the fantasy and as long as we acknowledge it as problematic, fiction may also gives us a way to use at as a mechanism for permission, passion and pleasure instead of what it really is. If you add more people to that, the fantasy that it a act of forbidden pleasure and passion may be destroyed.

I didn't feel that happened in this threesome, because Aki just seemed annoyed to me--and he tends to pretend not to like things he is shown to actually like. In RL I would never say that we should assume someone really wanted it--but in this story, I think we are supposed to see Aki as really wanting it.

I didn't quite see it that way. Since there was already a complex relationship between all three characters, there was already sexual tension and emotion for everyone involved. Of course only Asami and Aki love each other, but Fei has a history with both of them, and there are feelings that run among all three. Yes, Aki was goaded into it, and yes, he was angry afterward--but mostly because he was hoping Asami would call it off and stop it instead of joining in. Aki was acting on his own--a bit rashly and emotionally. As always, he jumps in without thinking it through, but not as a doll. He is as responsible as the other two.

I wouldn't want to see it become a regular thing, but this threesome didn't upset me because I think there are real feelings and attractions involved. It wasn't Asami pimping Aki out, and it wasn't done to humiliate or punish. It was the result of sexual tension, jealousy, passion, frustration, caring and a complex history.

I think Asami does care both about Aki's pleasure and emotions, but that Aki seemed to enjoy it in the moment, and the morning after he got angry--as Aki often does when he is pretending he didn't like something or wanting to suppress how he really feels.

Perfectly put, Anon. Bravissima! :)

Hmm.. I see. Thanks for sharing your opinion ! :) but still I just can't shake that feeling off, that it was cruel and horrible.. and yes the relationship between akihito and asami started really bad and doesn't contain rainbows and flowers xD It's hard for me to accept how easily asami shared (that's how I see it ) akihito, especially with feilong who did what he did in hong kong.. so I believe you see the extra as part of the original story line ?

Well, everyone has a different level of "squick". Personally, I can excuse a ravishment fantasy that includes a certain level of twisted and even sometimes angry love, because the magic of fiction transforms it into something the target enjoys and responds to. It's harder to do that in a threesome.

Have you ever read Caste Heaven? In Chapter 8 (which was recently posted here) there is a scene where the ukes are punished for threatening the power structure of a caste "game" with a sort of threesome rape, after which one of the ukes is rapped by a fourth person (the "king" who was directing the whole f-train wreck). When I compare the Finder threesome scene to the Caste Heaven, Finder seems tame. In Caste Heaven, I completely hate that the semes could do that to the ukes. Others will say that it is still all part of a twisted love and the semes just don't know how to express their feelings for the ukes, but I see it as not having any feelings for the ukes at all.

Maybe I have a slightly higher squick-level than those who hate all threesomes, but not as high as those who can see giving an unwilling uke to others as a part of any kind of passion or feeling. I do think that I can accept more abuse between two people than I can if others get involved. Not in real life, of course, because there is no excuse for that in real life. But in fiction, where they make ravishment seduction and seduction love, then I can go with it to, up to a point.

It's not that intimacy makes rape and abuse okay, but I feel like bringing in others to rape the uke or humiliate him is an indication of a sociopath without feelings. Fictional "ravishment" can be written as twisted love as long as the seme is possessive and protective (in terms of keeping others away). Even in fiction, forcing the uke to allow another to take him destroys the idea that there is something real if dark and broken between the couple--at least for me. At that point I can no longer suspend my disbelief in "twisted love" and I want the rapists to pay.

Oh, sorry, I got carried away in my justification for my acceptance of smut, er threesomes.

I see the extra as a fantasy, and not a "real" part of the story. In fact, I see it as Aki's fantasy because he has complicated feelings he does not understand, and this might give him closure. Plus, he is so cute in the hot springs scene.

I think it's real...I don't really have any concrete proof, but that's what it feels like to me. That's because for one, it is as was mentioned before, it isn't explicitly said to be a dream (like the one where Akihito had to torture Asami in the office) nor is it as obviously cracky/non-canon as something like the office setting, and especially the beginning makes it seem like it really happened to me, because the way it is set up directly connects to the main story; if it were just a crack/smut extra, Sensei wouldn't need an excuse or explanation to make it work within the actual story, she just could have thrown everyone into the onsen scenario like she did with the office. That's my theory.

I didn't know that there is a new chapter in Caste Heaven, cuz I check the updates only in mangahere so thanks!

well I read the chapter here and wow ! I agree, it was horrible, completely ruined any hope I had that karino might have some caring feelings for his uke.. indeed viewfinder seem very tame but well... Caste Heaven's author always writes the twisted things, so somehow I'm not surprised xD how weird... I'll probably continue reading that manga...


I'm sorry for the endless talk, thank you again for the kind and great replys.

about what you said, "I feel like bringing in others to rape the uke or humiliate him is an indication of a sociopath without feelings" - couldn't agree more. That's what I felt in that threesome with asami and feilong... that's why I just can't accept that chapter, tho it wasn't really bringing someone in... I think.

And now to my question :3 you said you see it as fantasy, can I ask why? is it because it doesn't fit asami/akihito?

P.s - "Akihito is so cute", Agree,tho I believe he's always cute x3

Maybe. It doesn't ruin it for me if it is "real", because of the feelings among those three--but I did think of it as Aki's fantasy. I don't have proof of it either, I just think Aki's the one who is most likely to secretly like the idea of having both of them for a short time.

Oh, I like the "endless talk". I'm online too. :)

I will also keep reading Caste Heaven. It's one of my top three favs right now. But it is twisted and chapter 8 burst my bubble. I will keep going though.

I see it as fantasyfirst because i did thik it was fluff, and then partly because no, I don't really see Asami as being into sharing (though if it were with anyone, Fei might be it). I do think the Hong Kong arc left Aki with some unresolved feelings (including anger and frustration). Aki wanted Asami to come and get him, but he ended up becoming friends with benefits for Fielong (of course, the benefits came first). So now there is an extra where Aki is stuck some place, and at first Asami comes to get him (Aki's first wish). Then Fei shows up and taunts Aki into going over by him--and Asami lets it happen. This isn't exactly Aki's wish, but it reflects how he might have felt in Hong Kong, and how he eventually felt as Asami and Fie used him as an excuse to keep laying some of their own old unresolved issues. This is a sexier way for Aki to feel something for both of them and be mad at Asami for putting him in the middle of that. It even reflects the real fear he has of Michail, since Aki left the arc being afraid of him and not Feilong. It just felt more like Aki's therapy or daydream than real to me.

That's a really good theory, wow nice !
I'll keep thinking it's just fan service... even if there is a possibility that it's not :P

Now talking about the manga in general,
I always have this feeling that we, the readers, make things way too deep and if the author saw it, she'll be like what the hell... it's just a story about a photographer and a fixer going all hot and badass xD. And even if she didn't mean all those things, the manga still rocks because of the different points of view and the depth we find there (even if it's not meant to be there) x3

Personally I wouldn't say that it did happen, it's just that as I see it sensei does keep things in-character. I'm sure she has a good grasp of her own characters and do care about how she depicts them, extras or not.

I mean, just look at it, so many people have expressed different opinions about Asami.

Now people make their own conclusion about what a character would or wouldn't do, and so it's easy to say "it's an extra, it doesn't suit my view of the characters, it's OOC" and just completely disregard what happened. Just like many people try to ignore the first chapter and justify it with "it was supposed to be a oneshot". And then you can come up with a dream theory in which sensei has given absolutely zero hints that it was her intentions.

In the end anybody is free to think what they want, it's to each their own experience xD. I personally gave my two cents because someone felt it caused a problem when it doesn't really have to do at all aha.

You have a point. I justify the first chapter and and the possibility that this was "real" by thinking Asami has some special sense of what Aki really likes and that Aki wants to be pushed into things, even when Aki acts like he doesn't like it. I know there is nothing in the story that backs this up, and in real life it would be utter crap, but I believe it anyway. :)

Oh I agre that readers probably take things in different directions than the creator first envisioned. I tend to be a "death of the author" reader, though I think there should at least be a basis in the story to back up what we infer from it. What I mean is, readers are not passive, and when we get lost in a story people tend to start "co-creating" by imaging more than the writer actually put on the page. Ultimately, I don't think it's even controlled by what the author wanted readers to take from the text (or manga). I think it's about whether or not the reader can support their impressions based on what's on the page itself (even if what is not what the author wanted ).

How can the page have something the author did not even intend? It's a part of how humans think and why we tell stories. Stories are a different level of communication than essays or instructions. They evoke emotion and at some level the interpretation is subjective. They also tend to hold various levels of meaning, so that if you have a really good book you can re-read it and see different things.

Sometimes I disagree with another reader and think, "That wasn't in the story at all." Even though everyone's subjective experience of the story is valid for them, I will reject things that I personally don't think are backed up by the text. OTOH, I stick to things I believe I validly inferred from the text, even when others don't see it. I'm funny that way.

I do think discussion bring out angles of the story I didn't see at first. TBH, my first read was probably more along the lines of "Mmmm, hot." The deep thinking comes while waiting for updates.

PS I had "Tut" in a conversation with too many "anons' and I forgot to switch it back.

Only part I like about that extra is asami came to ball his wife out of the predicament he was into. The rest don't really care. However, you,re blaming asami for not doing anything to prevent it and the way both men used and treated aki. No offense, for one fei long didn't force aki to do what he did. Second, aki did that intentionally to get Asami jealous and mad for not wanted to know what happened between him and fei, which back fired . Third, yes asami was angry and he got curious of the technique fei long thought him under his care and in his defense as man , he joined in to punish aki. You know what the say, you make your bed and you lay in it. Be careful what you wish of. I do agree a point someone made that this just an extra sensei created to make fans happy. If this the original manuscript, asami won't tolerate such a disrespectful behavior display in front of him or anywhere else.

Furthermore, why you're make aki come out like a brainless child who don't know right and wrong and will allow anyone such as asami talked him into doing such a thing. Aki is a big boy and he need to put his boy pant on . I am not trying to be mean just stating the facts.

The difference is?
I'll tell you the similarity, both are sexual assault.

>Asami doesn't really care how Akihito feels about it
Indeed. And this example is only the tip of the iceberg on how deranged their relationship is. It's hard to comprehend how revered this couple is by it's fans. It's no wonder yaoi fans have such a bad reputation, when the majority are mindless sheep who accept this nonsense purely for the fanservice.

Wow, you really just put the blame on Akihito for what happened. This is literally like blaming a rape victim for wearing a skirt too short.
>asami won't tolerate
So, this rapist, Asami has a right to expect respectful behaviour from his Stockholm syndrome suffering victim?
Please get out of your yaoi bubble fantasy, fix your grammar and kys.

Good morning! I also believe that it is a non-canon chapter; Not pleasant for Akihito, but definitely not canon; Also the image of Aki sitting in the middle of Asami and Fei has no connection with the main story.

Sorry, it's clearly a story that fits in a sort of alternative universe! According to you, after what happened in Hong Kong, Feilong decides to go on holiday in Tokyo? And casually in that same period Arbatrov also comes. And then: Mikhail does not enter the hall with Yuri?

Wow that's quite the old thread to bring back haha.

As for the dynamic, I see no sort of triangle!
Sense "jokes", and makes extreme and exaggerated features of characters, as if it were a parody:
1- Sensei Exaggerates Asami's selfishness and hardness
2- Exaggerates Akihto's tendency to be always in trouble (note that then all Russian mafiosi arrive, poor Aki)
3- Exaggerates the tendency of Feilong to interfere with their relationship.
4- Esagera Asami's tendency and Fei to be in rivalry.

It's like a parody of everything VF!

PS: Many of you know that I love Fei. But I have to admit that here he does not make us a good figure: Asami does not consider it a "danger" or a "threat" for him and Aki. It's as if Fei, instead of two Asami, I do not know how to explain ...

You are right! Good! I also think Yuri is actually acting against Mik ... is a good idea for the plot!

Well, I don't know but when one party does not want it but the other still forces him to do it anyway, it's still called RAPE!

lmao VF really has a really dedicated fanbase, it's a 2 year old topic and still going. I'm still into this threesome tho, I ship it hard. And idk what are you guys talking about because Aki always secretly desired Fei and I guess that's what pissed Asami off and challenged Aki to do it.

Yeah, I saw it in that way many times, it's better to be honest while talking about Finder and the kind of sexual fantasies represented in the story. ^_~
All those moments of 'forced sex' have their meaning. I remember a gay critic and journalist if I'm not mistaken who criticized horrible this story saying something that he would like to talk with the author of this manga to know her ideas about sex freedom in Japan (sexual desire released by means of figurative violence). He addressed Finder as a 'jumble of pornomafiosi' I confess that I laughed like crazy with this. (≧∀≦)(≧∀≦)

Akihito has always secretly wanted Fei ??????(⊙ ⊙ ...)

That's the beauty of a fiction. everyone views part of the stories differently, that doesn't mean we're both in the wrong. I didn't state that as a fact just more how i perceived it, with some lil hints during their story. Same goes with Asami, Aki always fights him but does that mean Asami always rapes Aki? I ain't saying he would go for everyone but I felt whilst reading the story Aki is attracted to Fei somewhat. And let's not forgeting it, this is a fiction only and very far off being realistic so you shouldn't view stuff like this realistically too.

Yes exactly, but you know this kind of stories will always make someone butthurt (no pun intended). Geez people really don't realize it's a story and not representation of how sex should be viewed in real life. Besides real life in Japan is far more perverted and twisted than anything in this story. and LOL pornomafiosi (someone is jealous of Asami) haha

He said something like this (I will try to translate it the best I can): 'And like God wants this jumble of pornomafiosi ends like this... for now.'
After the first part of the NT arc. (≧∀≦)

Dear, everybody really sees what he wants. Feilong is a beautiful man, maybe Akihito is sometimes blushed, but ...... his comment makes sense that Akihito .... besides Asami would like Fei. This is no canon in my opinion ...

I know this is an old topic but just want to say that the threesome even as an extra is terrible for me.
It is surely not canon. And all it was about: Asami degrading both Akihito and Feilong. It is obvious with Aki, but with Fei it was degrading because he again mocked him for his attraction towards him, and very obviously taunted him that he will never get what he wants.
Also, just a thought, but if Asami lets all of this happen, just because it is "competition" that means he cares more about the competition and about Fei than about Aki. I doubt this fits anywhere in the story. For people who only want sex its ok i guess, but otherwise blah.