pluckaduck's Topics (235)

Perfectly legal. :)

might be legal, but morally fucking weird.

I don't know what morals you are talking about. Which school of thoughts?

uhm as a human being? i mean, there must be a reason why we all have a instinctive aversion to the thought of a much older person being together with a much younger person. if the guy was 25+, then fine, but then she would be 42, and ig too old now, huh?

Human being is not of school of thoughts. You cannot tell me something is morally wrong and not refer to which kind of morals are you basing that on: what is the compass? I find nothing morally wrong with this. It is not first time I heard about some men liking older women. He is more than legal and he is the one pursuing the lady. Really, I cannot understand what morals have to do her. You have issues with men liking older women... on a personal level?

I don't think it has a lot to do with instincts. As far as History told us, age gap was WAY bigger back then and it was often coercive. Instincts, which are primitive, found little issues with such age gap. So again... two persons of legal age pursuing in their own consenting spirit a relationship... is pretty lambda?

it's not philosophy; it's common sense. your argument of "it's legal so it's fine" is equivalent to "she's 18, so it's legal".

such age gaps as fine, so long as their brains have fully matured. maybe in asian countries, 22 yo is considered fully matured and ~20 year age gaps are fine, but not in other countries. as u say, most large age gaps were coercive, people were forced to marry much older people often to achieve some status or money, otherwise, they wouldnt.

younger men pursuing older women are fine, but a 17-yo age gap is pushing it. it's like a middle-aged woman's fantasy, which i suppose is what the producer is aiming for. this story is trying to present it as "it's not grooming and he's the one pursuing her and love is love", but given how simple the story so far, i doubt it will be able to capture the nuances beyond just "he's too young and different life experiences". it's widely frowned upon for a reason.

and did u read with ur eyes close? cuz when the student asked "was i only just a student to u", the fmc didnt answer; the right thing to do as an adult who involved an innocent kid was to cleanly cut off his feelings right there and then. instead we get some icky flashbacks that implied she did feel something for him. it wouldve been better if the romance happened later... but alas, she would be too old. 39 is fine, but not 40, huh?

look it's clear that u think it's fine bc of ur morals, culture of whatever. so im not going to try to convince u otherwise.

- Morality is a major topic in Philosophy, so is epistemology (the study of knowledge).
- What might be common for you might be uncommon for others.
- My argument is that I don't see what is the moral issue here. And instead of explaining what morals are being violated, you keep acting as if your stance is self-evident, when it cannot be rationalized.
- Yes. They were coerced back then, but it was not seen wrongly back then. You have just stretched my one sentence point.
- "younger men pursuing older women are fine" Hmm. Do you know what is cognitive dissonance? Ageism? Social Stigma? Irrational biases/prejudices?
- Why is a 17y age gap is pushing it? Because it is a fantasy? They are bigger age gaps in the real world. I can see different life experiences as an inconvenience, but this has nothing to do with morality. No grooming presented, because she made her position clear on the matter.
- Of course I read my eyes closed; reading eyes open is so has-been. She did not answer because she did not want to hurt his feeling further. She clearly told him that she used him and will use him for her ploy. Her intentions were made clear around chapters 10-20 if I remember. It is like asking if you can travel to a certain country after being told that border has been closed. How hard do you want to be crushed by sad reality?
- "39 is fine, but not 40, huh?" I don't get the question nor why later would have changed anything. The age gap won't change.
- "t's clear that u think it's fine bc of ur morals, culture of whatever" Clearly not. My stance is based on default acceptance. Same principle as innocent until proven guilty.
- I asked one basic question, but have yet seen answers: what morals are you basing your views on? if something is deemed morally wrong, it presupposes the existence of a moral framework that defines right and wrong. What is your framework?

im basing my morals as a 21 century human being, as every other human. i dont need to be thoroughly versed in any specific school of thought or epistemology to know why this age gap along with their history is problematic. since moral frameworks are subjective, then neither of our stances are objective truth. but if rationale and legality can be used to justify anything, then why do humans have a moral compass? why have large age gap marriages nearly become obsolete in the modern era?

to reiterate my point, i dont care about a 17 year age gap. i didnt say it’s illegal or wrong. i was curious how the story will go about with this relationship, but i assumed the LI would be at least 24-25 yo. the producer's obviously trying to frame their romance as still within socially acceptable bounds, at the expense of making the love interest 22-yo, barely out of college, just so the fmc wouldnt be deemed “too old" as apparently a 40+ yo is, but not 39-yo. his maturity would be different if he was 25+ yo instead of 22 yo.

even if he would be crushed, she was done using him atp and if she was genuinely sorry at all, as an adult she shouldve clearly rejected him so he could get over her properly. if she had crushed his hopes thoroughly, but he still pined for her, then that’s on him and out of her hands. also, you ignored my point about the flashbacks. if it was simply about not hurting him, the story didnt need to add that in.

sure there are bigger yet socially acceptable age gaps irl... when the younger person is at least 25+ yo. if 18 yo is considered the legal age, why are 18 yos in 10+ age gap relationships still frowned upon? since it's legal, it should be fine, no? there might not be grooming since this story wants to idealize their age gap romance, but if she truly wanted to make it clear she saw him nothing but her student and not a romantic prospect, then she shouldve rejected him.

not sure what ur point is about agism/biases/etc. clearly i was talking about situations with a simiar age range; gender doesnt matter. it's a different matter if the much older person is pursuing the much younger person, for obvious reasons.

altho the story is fiction and thus morals are moot, i have a right to judge. i was going to keep an open mind, if the story had ended with that s1 ending and maybe an epilogue that implied their romance, but they had to make another season that focused on the love triangel. if my stance is not self-evident, then we obviously have a different set of morals. and i do not see much point talking about it.

It was problematic in the past, because it was no consensual and also involved minors. In this situation, it does not.

It is not about seeking objective truths but grounds. Your reluctance or perhaps inability to provide framework fuels this debate. You said your morals are as of 21 century’s people. I could say the same of myself and the people still commending death penalties. However, this gives 0 insight on good or bad.

I insist on saying I see no wrong. Henceforth, I asked to provide the framework outlining what would make this situation “morally weird”. Realism - “if there’s no harm and both parties consent, then it’s acceptable”. Pragmatism – “If the relationship is healthy and beneficial, it’s valid”. Skepticism – “Societal norms should be questioned, but so should personal biases”. Rationalism – “If both individuals are capable of informed consent, there’s no rational basis to object”… Your judgments appear to be biased against this relationship as you fail to distance yourself from grooming undertones.

“rationale and legality can be used to justify anything, then why do humans have a moral compass?” If you were able to provide an actual moral compass, you would not need to ask this question.

I did not simply ignore your point. I disregarded it. She left him behind and refused to stay by his side. Her actions speak volume. She rejected him; maybe not to your liking, but she did. The FL is not cruel by nature as she is presented as a relatively soft person but responsible enough to not deepen herself into dangerous territory. It’s not her fault if he is the persistent type. Of course, you may remain displeased with her actions or thoughts as the expectation for people to act in a particular way, with a certain level of intensity, is ultimately rooted in personal inclination.

“age gap relationships still frowned upon?” The answer dwells on cognitive dissonance, Ageism, Social Stigma and Irrational biases/prejudices.

I don’t use a set of morals to develop my arguments, as clearly mentioned before. I use default acceptance. It is not a moral framework but rather a starting position in reasoning that avoids arbitrary rejection.

As you said, you have the right to judge. I can only concord. Still, if you claim morality is being undermined as this relationship being “morally weird”, you should be able to substantiate what morals have been hurt. However, your argument highlights THE LACK of a clear moral framework— morals as of 21st-century people is vague and provides no clear ethical foundation.

Hence, I point out that Morality (ethical principles) and Moeurs (social customs) are distinct concepts. If you claim morality is being undermined, you must specify which moral principles are violated, not just reference societal norms. Mœurs evolve with culture, while morality requires rational justification based on ethical principles like harm, autonomy, or justice. Without clear moral transgression, objections are rooted in tradition, not ethics.

In summary, this was never about morals but mœurs. I have arrived at the conclusion that this relationship is not morally weird but socially unconventional based on this exchange. I acknowledge that it may unsettle those whose views remain anchored in social stigma. Now, I understand.

15+ 3+7- the boy is 25

Mc should be around 40 years old
Age of juniors are around 17 + 15 yrs that mc and the ex been together plus3 years timeskip and plus 7 years time skip up to present
She could be around 40-42
when the mc had the date before the timeskip and the 15 yrs old asked what were you doing when I was your age .

mc is stated to be 39 yo in the lastest chapter. i was confused cuz the math isnt mathing with the years, but i just took her stated age and subtracted 17 to get ml's age. but whether they start dating when he's 25, ive no idea

Its usually pretty Cheap on Kuaikan, when I bought Little Mushroom it was less than $14

would it encompass the whole story, or the just the released chapters so far and any released chapters after the purchase wouldnt count? also would i have to pay in chinese currency?

sheep's mask wasn't the story paskim's talking abt. she made "lets make it seductive" before litc, sheep's mask was published when litc was on hiatus after s1 ended

oh, is that right? good to know

Where did you read about the 2nd lifetime? Can i read it for free? I read the novel, but it was only until MC found ML's subordinate shoot/stabbed (i forgot) in front of MC's house.

i used a pirate aggregator site and MTL the raws. booktoki468.com

Okay thanks for that, so I wouldn't have expected anything like that

np! i think the story handles this type of situation relatively well. and at the end, it didnt feel forced that mc forgave ml bc ml is estalished as a pretty good guy, he just made huge mistake which he paid for for the rest of his life, and continuing on the next.

Are you really criticizing because you think its overly popular lol. Does he need an incredibly special reason to fall in love with Yano? I thought it was a pretty believable enough reason to fall in love. The dudes been craving any sort of genuine connection and seeing someone living so earnestly and keep going despite having their own struggles too (contrasting to how Odajima was living) is plenty reason to develop an interest. Because that's the kinda thing he earned for too ykno

Of all things youre nitpicking why he's a good student?? It's like asking someone who likes to be neat, but why are you neat? that's just who they are lol

I think youre off on thinking theyre making everyone bad to lift the mc. Odajima is the one that gathers those kinds of ppl to him because of how he was living. It makes sense because he was kinda just going through the motions and playing this role and living superficially which brought superficial ppl to him.

The only thing I can agree on is it's pretty fast paced and could have used more development. Everything else just sounds like it didn't resonate with you personally tbh

im criticizing the fact that it's popularity doesnt equate to its quality. i heard that it was some sort of masterpiece in the comments but i was legitimately cringing at some points. even if i dont resonsate with its plot directions, i can still point out its unoriginality and contrive-ness to force mc to acknowledge his feelings. like i said, mc is someone who doesnt want to burden other people and would rather cry by himself than ask for help from friends of family (his family even sent him a box of food later, which showed that they did have the capacity to help him. is it shame that prevents him from asking?). i think it's a great characterization, and valid reason for ml to be intrigued, but i nitpicking that fact that this characterization is not explored much or substantiated. its not the same thing as being "neat". mc was hesitant to acknowledge his feelings for ml, a big part of it due to not adhering to "common sense" or "role model" behavior. what does adherence have anything to with his feelings? what would be the consequences if he fell for him? literally nothing. we can speculate that getting involve with ml would mean getting involve in situations that would risk his scholarship, but all we got was some sex scene as if that was the "prize", an more or less accepting mother, and a simple HEA. since this conflict was resolved so disappointingly easily, it led me to believe ml's whole dilemma simply derived from some adolescence excessive angst. his characterization is great, but if he didnt approach mc but rather watched him from afar (to avoid falling for him any further. or maybe scared of rejection ig) simply bc of his mother begging him to not turn out gay like his father, why did he do it so easily when they become roommates, even giving him a handjob and essentially saying he wanted to fuck him? his actions and his trauma arent in sync. did he wanted to be friends, or lovers? if he wanted to try to be friends, he shouldve tried harder to appear that way after he got the frrst chapter. how did he expect mc to react? if mc avoided him, that would've ruined his chance to be friends, much less lovers. did he hope mc wouldnt reject him? which would greenlight him to pursue him? in that case, it make sense that ml told him he wanted to fuck him, but also makes his watching and not daring to like mc feel so stupid. if mc took up that offer to be his fuck buddy, would ml refuse in the end and pretend it was a joke, bc of his mother's words, or would he do it, thereby ignoring his trauma and years of attempting to make himself straight via sleeping with girls. and if the latter happen, which is likely, how will he even broach the subject to his mother when he's not even talking to her? if ml was the type to do things impulsively in the heat of the moment, he should've just straight-up avoided him or distanced himself when they became roommates or after the first chapter. like he had been doing before.

i will concede that ml's reason for falling for mc doesnt have to be special since they are teenagers but that's about it. the story couldve been better with its execution, but their characterizations and growth in a vacuum was fine.

as the person who made the note that the ch1 scene can be interpreted as yano reacting to odajima without realising, you could have commented that on my post i don’t mind opposing views ^^ though it is just a possible interpretation posed by the fact that he clearly didn’t think of men as an option for him until after odajima started flirting with him, which this situation was the catalyst for. he could be gay, he could be bi! doesn’t really matter because the point is that he’s attracted to men and that scene kickstarted things for him coming into realising it, & i think it’s a little disingenuous to say nothing would change for him if odajima was a girl because the whole point of things is that he isn’t! this story couldn’t have played out the way it did were he one. the story direction couldn’t be the same at all.

i am biased as someone who does like the story, but i don’t think age has to do with it because i’m also a lot older than the characters lol, i think it’s just a matter of personal taste / preference in storytelling. and i do think some of these criticisms are already answered by the story itself. re: yano’s wanting to set a good example, it’s because he’s a poor scholarship student! the series hints pretty heavy at the class divide based on what odajima’s friends say, since it’s a high school w/ an affiliated middle school that’s considered quite affluent. students like yano who come from other schools - especially on scholarships like him - seem to be quite rare. so if he steps out of line at all he risks being kicked out, and if he’s kicked out he puts greater strain on his family he can’t afford to put on them both financially and mentally.

odajima also surrounds himself with self-absorbed people on purpose as part of his attempt to force himself Into Being Normal (in his eyes), so it’s less that yano is the only one out there at all with good values and moreso that odajima happened to hear him expressing his values at a time where he was at rock bottom, and that was enough to light a match in the depths of his heart. his mental state was genuinely Just That Bad due to his own self sabotage and the people he purposely surrounded himself with and a single kind comment he heard by coincidence was enough to pull him out of the depths.

(i do agree abt not being interested in the smut bc i generally do not like nsfw stories of underage charas At All, but in this case i treated it less like smth gratuitous and more like… how do i put this. kind of part of being a coming of age story? like more teen novel style necessity than a gratuitously inserted scene. exception to the issue even if i don’t personally like to see it because the story is essentially at its core about sex and specifically about odjima’s self harming through sex & so it ends with him being able to heal from that by embracing someone he actually likes and saying he’s glad he fell in love with him. etc etc)

sorry this is a long reply. i just have a lot to say about pittosporum.

sorry for coming back later to leave a second comment i just wanted to cover my bases & clarify that neither my comment abt the interpretation of yano reacting to odajima (which i had just figured was abt my last topic about the series since im the only one afaik who’s brought that up in post), nor the rest of my last reply, was meant to be read as passive aggressive or overly serious because i realised due to how tone comes across online & upon rereading my entire post it could very much be read as such. my reply was all in sincere lighthearted good fun bc i just like media/literary analysis and pittosporum is ultimately a personal fav of mine so it gives me a lot to ramble about. (๑•ㅂ•)و✧ just wanted to clarify! carry on

Sorry I have an incredibly hard time reading this because there's no spacing.

Setting yourself up with expectations of a masterpiece based on popularity sounds like a you problem lol.

What exactly makes you cringe? I'm curious. Please explain cus no, I don't understand how Yano falling for Odajima was contrived at all.

It sounds like you're finding fault in characters cus theyre not acting how you want them to act. The point is that theyre flawed characters, you cant expect a kid with trauma who's been acting a role all his life and burying his real self for ages to be making sense and reasonable with everything he does

dont worry ur comment is fine; as someone who argues pretty aggresively, i didnt take offense to ur comment or ur tone. i get that if ml was female, then they wouldnt be roomates in the first place and and ml wouldnt be angsty, but i moreso meant the process of ml seducing him and mc falling for him. in my second comment, both characterizations are actually good, but my issues are smth else. long spiel alert:

to clarify again, reiterating my second comment, is that there is no actual correlation to mc's need to act like a role model to not lose his scholarship (which i already know the reason to) and his feelings for the ml. why did it take so long for mc to acknowledge his feelings for ml? we could say it's bc it was his first time falling in love and he wanted to be careful not to screw up his scholarship, but when we got to that scene where he basically went "screw common sense/being like a good student", which i took from that essentially him willing to face the consequences of not conforming to his conventionally planned life for ml. as shown in the confession scene, it was a huge step for him. but in the end, all the rising tension fell flat as it wasnt a big deal; all of mc's worries didnt come to fruit. there couldve been a mention about the potential of homophobia/resistance (from friends, family, society, etc) which would substantiate mc worries and cement the reason he took a while to acknowledge his feelings, but the mom was more or less accepting, and that was it. the lack of it indicates gay relationships isnt a big deal in the world, but it kinda was (for ml at least. for the mom, it was from the dad cheating, so i wouldnt call her homophobic). once mc confess and they got together, everything was wrapped up neatly. if there was a scene later that addressed that mc's worries was unfounded, that his relationship with ml isnt a stigma to his "role model" behavior but rather readily accepted by friends and family, then this criticism would be void.

another thing is ml's actions conflicting with his characterization which i talked about in my second comment. specifically, ml's actions in chaper 1 and 2. mc is immediately greeted with the sight of ml with a girl in his dorm and a frivolous greeting. ml gives him a handjob and basically declares in ch 2 that he wanted to fuck mc. ok, makes sense given ml is a playboy, but it doesnt make sense when we're told ml basically fell for him a while back and made no moves to approach him and only watched him from afar bc of his mom's words and his fear of being gay (and maybe he believed it would a be fruitless love). like all his resolve went out the window bc they happened to be roommates? if his mom's words actually had such hold over him, then he shouldve tried to be distant and appear nonchalant (which ig the first scene of him arguably did). a counterargument could be that ml was unable to hold back from touching mc, and when mc didnt express any visible disgust, he took it as a greenlight to pursue him. but this circles back to my point: ml spent years trying to turn straight or self-harm by sleeping with girls, even when mc's words resonated with him, he still didnt change his ways, which shows how deep-rooted this fear was; but if all it took was mc not explicitly rejecting him, was his trauma all that serious in the first place? how was he going to broach this subject to his mom if he managed to pursue mc successfully? again, my point can be countered that he did those out of impulse, which would explain why he never dared to approach mc and just watched him, but that would mean he was self-aware, and if so, then he should've tried harder to distance himself from mc. and given the ending that there was no actual bad consequences of being with mc, then how does their fears/reservations hold weight in the narrative other than "for drama and angst ofc".

the story doesnt have to a Pulitzer winning work, but if their behavior is simply excused by their being teenagers without direct acknowledgment from the work, then imo it's fair game for criticism.

eh i wasnt actually expecting it to be a masterpiece, cuz most stories that i read with these kind of comments fall short of that. it's not specifically in itself Yano(ml i assume cuz i dont remember their names) falling for mc that was contrived, although cliche, but rather the process. cringe was the wrong word here cuz i actually grimaced, but in that regard, im also talking about the layout and paneling (when mc was talking to ml's mom and she was begging him to help ml; the confession scene) which was to reflect mc's state of mind but it felt jarring imo and took away from that scene (kinda like the visual equivalent of purple prose), and the story using cliche methods to propel the plot (like yano's notebook felt very random, the extras randomly talking in the background) to make mc confess. if he didnt see that notebook, how much longer would he just meander around? it was clearly an ex deus machina, since there was no longer any other plot lines to use to facilitate their relationship.

if a reader needs to excuse the leads' irrational, immature, and inconsistent behavior with their being teenagers and hormonal (uhm ml legit was having a threesome) therefore flawed, without direct acknowledgment from the work, then it's not a me problem but author's writing ability. i will concede that ml blurting out that he wanted to fuck mc in ch 2 and the ml's fight with his ex-friends is reasonable for teenagers, but my other criticism remains. anyhow, i expanded a bit more on the comment to crzlove, and im too lazy to copy and paste, so look there if u still want to argue.

adding to the last sentence of my first paragraph cuz i just remembered, talking to friends/family will simultaenously show his growth as someone more willing to rely on others when he has some struggles. like his friends had asked about his wellbeing twice(?), and he never says anything, bc it was his private matter sure, but literally one of his character traits is that he always endured his burdens alone and didnt want burden others, even when his friends/family care about him and would be willing to help him. if he is willing to step out of his comort zone for ml, this should extend towards them as well and really cement his growth.

YEEE I was hoping he’d be a little shit at most, maybe tryna get in and be with mc since he realized mc and ml arent actually officially together, only to be rejected by mc and maybe be a part of a second couple later on, why did we need so many shots of him being pretty only for him to be behind drugging mc

It's alright, in the drama the actress is actually really 40 but she looks 20s and the actor is 23 and they look good together

The actress debut as public figure in 2001 and the actor born in 2002

A lot of people irl have that kind of age gap, it's normalized but oh well

From spoilers



















It's only implied that they'll date after like 7 years (he goes to college & becomes a teacher and they don't meet at all during that time) but there is also a doctor who was from her class in high school who has a daughter I think. It's implied that she's already in a relationship with the Dr but the mistress son protects her from his own mother when she tries something again. I really don't like huge age gaps bc you should really be with someone around your age (I can't even think of what I would talked about with someone 10+ yrs younger enough to date them, it gives grooming vibes). I'm only reading this for the revenge since there isn't any romance at all she's only getting information from the kid. I really do hope they don't get together It's such a groomer/pedo concept being with someone so young

As a drama viewer, I ship the main lead actress with the lead actor though eventhough the lead actor seems interested with another actress who is around his age

well, naturally, it's normal to be drawn towards someone our age. strange, tho, out of every drama, they decided to adapt this into a comic? i wonder who is their target audience.

maybe in asian countries ig. i suppose living where im at, im disturbed bc it's very frowned upon.

oh thx, as long as it's only implied. so ig it's gonna be a love triangel where the kid keeps simping for her saying "age doesnt matter", the fmc being wishy-washy bc "she's old" and guilt, and the other guy being there bc he's the "socially acceptable" choice, right?

There's a lot in the US too, that's normalized.

maybe back then in the 20th century, 15~ year age gaps where the younger person was 18~ yo was normalized. nowadays, most people recognize the only way for this kind of age gap to be ok if the younger person was late 20s. if it 25 or younger, such an age gap are frowned upon. im sure in other areas in the US, it's still considered fine, but the general sentiment is that it's not.