mangaholic's Topics (10)

I'm just curious why you don't have the same energy for Elena.

You think the Crown Prince is wrong for lying to her about being in love with her to save HER life.
But you think Elena is right for lying to the Crown Prince about everything, including the murder of his first wife, and going along with the Duke's scheme for her to marry him, just to save her own life?

Imo they're both victims of outside political power hungry monsters, and they both just did what they could to stay alive and keep the people they love alive.

Commented that on a previous comment on yours seems liek your a real crown prince stan huh. Are you even reading my responses cuz I clearly explained how she was kidnapped and threatened to stay in her position byt he dukes family.

They said they would send her parents to a murder island if she acted out imagine what would happen the them if she left. She only went to the dukes familiy initially because they said they would pay for her to attend a ball (as herself not veronica yet) to find a good husband.

Please do read my prior comments to yours before you repeat yourself. It makes it seem like you dont even care what the other person is saying your just repeating the same points over and over with no room for critical thinking.

And hey you can like the crown prince and still be critical of him, no need to slander elena for being held hostage tho like youve done several times now.

I haven't read the novel yet but if someone dislike the prince isn't it just their opinion? We've seen the mc is literally so traumatized that she fainted and we seen her perspective we haven't really seen the crown prince perspective yet and wasn't she a victim of the duke its not like she had a choice but I think the prince had some choices about things

Also heads up I dont think he told her that he loved her cause she was under the impression he didnt. Her trauma doesnt disappear because oh he secretely love her. He isnulted her after childbirth, he insulted his child. He absolutley humiliated her and you think thats ok because he loved her and it was part of a plan. How hard would it have been to let her know that 'oh yeah elena im going to riun your selfesteem cause you months of trauma but dont worry i still love you'.

Agree so many stories where their trauma just disappear but I really like this one cause it really shows how connected she was with her child and betrayed she felt from the prince.

No you're the one who doesn't get it. You're willing to excuse her harmful actions of Elena by blaming the duke, but won't do the same for the prince, when NEITHER of them would have done what they did if the duke didn't pose a threat to them and their loved ones. They're both in the same boat.

I'm not saying she wasn't a victim of the duke, I'm saying so was the Prince. That's the whole point. I think he had as many choices as she did. They both just wanted to save themselves and their loved ones, and I think it's a gross mistake to start blindly hating the prince when he's obviously the ML.

i agree with you and can you please give me the novel link, ty <3

Sorry tbh i got confused about your point. Im guessing your point is that since im blaming the prince fore being mewn to her even though he loves her due to to external forces I shoudl blame her for pretneding to be veronica and tricking the pricne.

But from my perspective the prince knows the duke isnt good. And if as you say the prince is also being forced by the duke then he knows the duke has power. It was also mentioned that when he falls in love with elena he beings to think that he isnt veronica but someone else. So now we have two points . 1. Prince knows duke is bad but has lots of power and influence 2. Prince knows elena isnt veronica.

Do you really think he cant put two and two together. To get that duke is forcing elena. Also even if he didnt know elena isnt veronica, then he thinks that he is in love with veronica and is being hurtful to his wife.

Also in the manga and novel it is shown that she is traumatised, she feels nauseous by him and has constant flashbakcs to her truama cause by him. From what I heard he doesnt get that same level of feeling by realising elena isnt veronica. So thus you cant justify the trauma he has cause by saying they were both hurt. And you also cant compare the pain one lerson cause by BEING KIDNAPPED to pain caused by a conscience plan he chose to make.

And yes they may be in the same boat but again THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PRETENDING TO NOT LIKE SOMEONE AND ACTIVELY HURTING THEM HE COULD HAVE JUST ACTED LIKE A CIVIL PERSON INSTEAD OF INSULTING HER. Or he could have told her.

Hey as far as I know the novel hasnt been translated into english but here is the link for the spoilers of people who have read it.

https://forum.novelupdates.com/threads/shadow-queen-manhwa.106459/

Also apparantly you can read the first 10 chapters here but IDK. https://www.novelupdates.com/series/shadow-queen/ but you need a word press account from what I saw online.

Fam you know that last part reminded me of how Elena died with her child being taken away... Like did he even notice she disappeared and was a different person or..

Yes that's my point, sorry if I didn't make that clear. I don't blame Elena bc I know she was threatened into doing the things she did, but I also don't blame the Prince bc it sounds like he was threatened and scared for her life too.

And I know that she was and still is hurt by what he did, and I feel for her for that, but he was willing to lose her love just to keep her safe and I personally just find that noble and selfless.
Whether he had other options and whether that decision was stupid/unnecessary remains to be seen. I'm personally most interested in learning about that mysterious past right now.

It still doesn't change the fact she lied to him though.

Do I have memory loss or something coz in her first lifetime she didn't know her parents were held hostage. Coz they didn't do that, they just killed them after she left her house. Still, she didn't tell the Prince about what's going on even in the very end.

does the crown prince ever really treat her wrong? besides idk neglecting her as a husband?

Idk but I would hate being constantly insulted but that might be just me.

uh this is a genuine question not a sarcastic one lol chill. did he constantly insult/emotionally abusive towards her?

Thinking back they might not have threatened the parents but as we saw in the first life they woudl have if they wanted. In the 1st chapter she said that the duke said smth like giving her a debutant ball became a debt her parents would have to pay off. And their buisness had failed prior. Also i wouldnt be honest about having been kidnapped under false pretenses and made to marry him, if my husband was as mean as the crown pricne was. Like if he was kind and was caring then yes she would absolutley be at fault but having been put in this situation I just dont see how the level of pain they both cause is equal. Like sure she lied after being threatened and kidnapped and then abused by her tutor, but he emotioanlly abused her and neglected her when he could have just been civil and cold to her.

Im not saying he was in the wrong for pretending to not like her but instead for being so hurtful and mean about it. Plently of arranged marriages have participants who dont like each other but they also dont emotionally abuse their partner at the same time while loving them. There was a neutral option that he did not take. That is what Im faulting him for.

Well we see in chapter 39 and the second or first chapter that he insults her quite a lot. Its also mentioned in the comments that he had to neglect her and her child. So yeah also after child birth he says that this was a mistake. He means that he shouldnt have been so mean or something, but he doesnt clarify himself and he really ends up hurting the FL.

Sorry I got a bit aggressive I just really hate people thinking abuse is only really physical and that emotional abuse cant be jsut as bad. ⁄(⁄ ⁄·⁄ω⁄·⁄ ⁄)⁄ Also we see her feel faint and begin to have a panic attack when she sees him so obviously those comments really affected her.

i think you mean ch 40, and that was one flashback. i couldnt find any in ch 1 and 2, or i might have missed it. also i didnt read the novel/novel spoiler so im unaware of that, the only think i know is he has never shown her affection (to protect her?). a single instance of hurtful words is very different with constant emotional abuse. id say keeping his distance is also fair given the circumstances (forced marriage with enemy’s daughter, later to protect her). just wanna clarify if he actually did emotionally abuse her (intentionally or unintentionally).

(she was also very much shaken and trembled a lot when she met the former empress (cant remember her name), so her being so shaken upon seeing the prince does not necessarily mean he abused her)

thank youuuu smmmm

Does she even know she's been kidnapped lol. She could have told him about her circumstances, but yeah one thing led to another and she's died.

THE NOVEL IS ON W*TTPAD.

The novel has 180 chapters translated on w*ttpad.

https://thewebnovelhaven.wordpress.com/
The translator also has a website. Read the novel! NOW!

AND in addition, Sian HAD to be cold to her. He had to. He didn’t have a choice, because even though he’s the Crown Prince, the imperial lost their power! In the novel it describes that the “Grand Duke is above the imperial family.” Past and present. This contributes to why Sian didn’t treat her well. It would be a spoiler if I said more, but a key component in this story, that everyone must know is that THE GRAND DUKE IS CONSIDERED TO BE ABOVE THE IMPERIAL FAMILY!!!! (But of course, in this timeline, the Grand Duke will sink down to the bottom, and the Imperial family will gain the power) that is all. NOW READ THE NOVEL!!! ヽ(`Д´)ﾉ

She wouldn't know she's being kidnapped though so she have the ability to tell him that except for one reason: where she came from, which is from the duke house. So it'd make sense she wouldn't tell him cuz if she came from a rival political house and say "Hey! I'm actually a pawn to control you and weaken you as your wife." I don't think the Prince will be like: "Sure! I welcome you with open arms!" But then the crown Prince would have already know that and would be highly suspicious of her. May be a reason for neglect, I'm not sure.

I'm not gonna justify the crown princes actions, honestly he's a douche, I hate him. Say what you want but as soon as the mc starts falling in love, Ima drop this shot faster then you can say lol (I swear when they start falling in love this is gonna be just like abandoned empress, were we just forgive all the shot the crown prince did in the past) （￣へ￣）

Yh but issue isnt really that he was cold. Again there is a different in being cold and respectful and being hurtful. If i dont like soemone I would ignore them, I wouldnt keep insulting them even after they have given birth unless I wasnted to hurt them. Im not saying he should have been loving but he should have just ignored her. That would be plenty fine. Its not like him ignoring her but not insulting her and her child would make others think they were in love.

Furthermore, he could have told her in private why he had to be mean to her. Either way there was an alternative that he didnt take so nah he is mean.

Hey I think that being told that your parents would have to pay back the cost for your debutant ball, knowing her parents cant afford it, is kidnapping. Also even if they were on the same political side, I really wouldnt be honest to a hus band who always insulted me either. #－.－)

That was my mistake, I found the instance. The crowm prince tells mc after child birth. 'It was my mistake. My momentary mistake will cause the downfall of the empire.' And while I understand he means smth different he is still talling about his child amd it can be easily taken to mean something hurtful.

Also in chapter 40 the crown pricne is told as saying 'There was never a moment I loved you.' and 'You are my mistake, my disgrace and my misery.' Imo these should be seen as two separate instances because they dont really flow as one insult.

The question of is it emotionally abusive really depends on how often you think a person has to be insulted. Is being insulted every week enough, every month, every day? In my opinion a person is regarded as being emotionally abusive if they use insults against you with some degree of frequency and these insults cause severe emotional distress.

Now you compare the scene with which the mc sees the empress to when she sees the crown prince. I think that those cant be compared the scene woth the crown prince shows her pain and discomfort being far more drawn out to the extent that the entire chapter is her being faint and recovering from it. In contrast the mc quickly recovers from seeing the empress also the vocabulary used is different after seeing the crown pricne it calls her faint, you see the colour pallate used on her being darker showing she is still scared and nervous afterwards but with the enpresses meeting it only says that she trembles with the colour returing to its usual brights shades in the next scene.

Also i think that the manga showing us these severap instances of the crown prince insulting her indirecrly or not, is meant to be taken as him doing it more than whats mentioned. Manhwas wont show every single instance of the crown prine hurting her but we can make a reference especually as in chapter 13 she says that he hated her. Not neglected, not ignored but hated. Hate is a pretty strong emotions so I think its safe to say that he must have said some pretty mean things several times. Now to him these instamces may be justified because he knew deep down that these words held no meaning that he was pretending. But to her these words must have been the truth and since he didnt show any other kind of like for her, she would have really thought he hated her.

Am I saying that the crown prince is evil no. But he made his bed and he should lie in it. There was no need for the insults, there was not need to call your child and your wife mistakes. Its not like by not insulting her people would think they were in love no he could have just ignored them. His love and his circumstamces dont excuse his actions but do explain them. She deserves an apology from him either way. Call it emotional abuse or call it a husband calling his son and wife a mistake, either way he hurt her and thats it.

in the end theyre all assumptions and hypothesis. we dont know for sure if he actually did abuse her and i hope it gets clarified later. for example, in abandoned empress, multiple flashbacks were shown of the ml being mean to mc so we know for sure thats abuse, not just a once-off spur of the moment. id like to make a sound judgment about the prince but as of now, the information is too lacking so ill hold my thought. thank your for your answers!

to answer all your points: (dont have to read my thoughts are all summarised up there.)
1. The “my mistake” part was truly awful but I had just assumed its one flashback, which matters a lot. And I do think the two sentences flow cohesively, why doesnt it? so i stand my ground.

2. yes, frequency does actually matter. you can meet the most awful abuser and had them throw you demeaning insult, if its a one time thing then you wouldnt say they had abused you. this is the point im trying to clarify, if the prince had done it frequent enough itd be considered abuse instead of a one-off thing or rare spur of the moments. idc if its “for good reasons”, i just wanna know if he had actually abused her.

3. youre correct, the degree of reaction is quite different. but i still think it doesn’t necessarily equate to abuse. for example, crowded place triggers my panic attack. it doesnt mean crowd terrified me per see. it just reminded me of something traumatizing that happened while i was in crowd. now, i have severe reaction when im in a crowd without the necessary mental preparations. i can say the same thing with the prince. the prince is the embodiment of her pain, perhaps more so than the duke (seeing as she she was more composed when seeing the duke the first time). the prince was her only solace (seeing how she loves him), the one who she made baby with. perhaps more than being a puppet and killed, the misery that your one only light hates you is much more impactful for her. so no, it doesnt necessarily mean the prince had abused her or done something so awful to her. but his figure has become the embodiment of her pain in her first life. (me saying this doesnt discount the possibility that he did abuse her, but im saying that theres a possibility he didnt)

4. “why does she think he hate her? he must have done something terrible.” its really not that hard to make someone think they hate you, specially considering elena is a really naive girl. i assume hes been ignoring her all throughout the marriage, so ofc shed think he hates her. he doesnt have to be especially mean to her for elena to think that way lol. i even have instances when i think some people really genuinely hate me and they dont even treat me badly at all. i just have depresskon and anxiety

5. idk i never said he didnt have to apologize. id wish an apology from someone who bumped onto me, of course the prince has to as well lol. its a matter of “can this be forgiven or not”. in my opinion, though you may “forgive” your abuser, you should still never have them in your life again. this what im considering in regards to the prince.

Thanks for speaking my mind! that's exactly why i said i want her to finish her revenge and reunite with her family in my comment, unhealthy relationships aren't my thing, his love doesn't justify his actions!

And what about, " he couldn't show favoritism because he didn't have the power to protect her" well she still died and he couldn't do anything about it either way! at least she could've died knowing that he loved her! how am i supposed to support this relationship? no way in hell!

That makes complete sense, his love cant get rid of her trauma completley. What has happened cant be changed but she can find a new space for herself amongst people that love and support her.

And absolutley he could have told her that he loves her, if not that then that he doesnt hate her but he has to remain impartial.

And if he really couldnt say that then he should have just been cold but cordial. There are so many arranged marriages where the couples arent on the best of terms but remain relatively civil. It isnt like there are only two extremes of either be super obvious about your love or completley ruin their self esteem and make them think you hate them.

And tbh if I really loved someone I couldnt imagine saying such things. Id rather let them escape the marriage or smth than make them stay with me while insulting them at ever turn.

Indeed, being cold to someone and being mean isn't the same, but they both show your indifference, so why choose the extreme path if u truly have feeling for someone ? just after they went through something as hard as childbirth at that, if you can't support them when they need it most then at least don't add more to their pain!

Exactly he's so irritating, he loves her but still have sex with other girls like that is so disrespectful! But i'm glad the girl isn't in love with him and stay unbothered for life cuz that boy is untrustworthy!

Tbf. He doesn't "have" Yoshina. She doesn't consider herself his gf and fiancee thing is just a formality arranged by the grandparents.
Yoshina is just too proud to break off the engagement and go back to Osaka.
Despite knowing her fiancee is a lunatic and a very dangerous one.

She doesn't really care if he has these "side bitches" because to her they are not together and she has no romantic feelings for him at this point.
Tbh I think she prefers him going to those women than trying the moves wit her.

Besides, these women are part a "strategic gameplay" to him.
Miyama even mentions to his "ex girlfriend" his main objective when seeking women for sex is to determine how "useful" they would be to him in the future.
For information, networking and to use as honey traps etc .
Romance or "feelings" plays little to no part and lol the look on that dumb hoe's face is priceless because her bad taste in men that leads her to gravitating towards
scumbags like Miyama catches up with her. She honestly thought she was "special" to him. The other women atleast are wiser.

And I completley get that but I still think that even if they are just pawns to him its not okay. Im just worried that the author is going to make Yoshino fall for him and end up shes going to force herself to be okay with him having sex with others just because its 'what yakuza men do'. Again there isnt anything wrong with have sex with others as long as your partner is fine with it whole heartedly and not begrudgingly because otherwise you dump them, ya know.

Id much rather prefer either the two never fall in love further than accomplices in a arranged agreement or he takes into consideration her feelings about other women and asks if shes okay with it if the author is going the 'love' route.

"And I completley get that but I still think that even if they are just pawns to him its not okay."

Those women aren't victims. They (should) know what they are getting themselves into.
Considering the type of guy Kirishima IS and that being the reason these women are drawn to him. It's more or less Karma for them if they have any romantic delusions about their liaisons with him. Most of them don't and some even boyfriends of their own. The only deluded one who thought otherwise, that Kirishima geniunely pined for her was Nao.


"Shes going to force herself to be okay with him having sex with others just because its 'what yakuza men do"

I doubt that, since Yoshino herself said if a guy she liked was seeing other women "she'd kill him". She wouldn't be accepting to a cheating partner. This is what shocks Kirishima that she doesn't care about his flings because it reveals that she doesn't care about him.
Whether, or not she ends up with Kirishima at this point. I'm not sure.
I personally prefer Shouma, but given Kirishima's personality I don't he is going to ever let her live in a peace being in a relationship/married to someone else.
That's why Tsubaki says if Yoshino wants to run away they will need to give Tsubaki plastic surgery

He blackmails jaehyun but then it gets better, and he actually falls in love with him

Eunsung actually was never mad he was a dude he was made he was tricked and thought the feelings between the two were never real. He actually never mentions anything about him being a dude tbh

Thank you so much. I'll read it then, I was just so upset that Eunsung would treat mc like shit after treating him so well initially.