ASTRE's Topics (55)

Gosh. I dont want to expect again. Will the author do an Unrippened Expression? I cannot. I really liked Sahyun for Sooha.

It actually makes me sad that their relationship has more depth yet probably won't be tackled that much in the story coz it has been established that Calix is the main seme. Sahyun has more chemistry with Sooha than Calix. I don't wanna keep reading because I don't wanna see my ship sink, but I keep reading cause I'm curious. Lol

exactly

So true!

Hyunjin was toxic. If you really don't think he was toxic and manipulative the you seriously need to see a psychologist. A lot of people is not hating on Hyunjin just to hate but he seriously has major character flaws and it is not addressed at all in this story. A relationship is about rusting your partner despite how you feel. If you have to go about manipulating situations to get your lover or if you don't trust your partner to cheat on you then what is the purpose of being in a relationship? If you do not trust your partner you have no reason to be in a relationship.

I was about to consider your reply but then you suddenly went to attack me personally by saying that I needed to see a psychologist. That was just plain shit and rude of you. Like I said, if you're considering that he's toxic, then all people in real life are. He made a mistake and so are everybody. That's toxic then? Then okay. You people are so into judging everyone who makes mistake and so eager to call them toxic when you probably did a lot of wrongdoings too. We all are toxic in our way. There are no people without sins. You literally live in the fairytale world that only 'innocent' people like Sunwoo deserve a happy ending and second chance and that's just so unrealistic. I am not even justifying his wrong behavior. I am just saying that he didn't deserve this much hate when he himself was hurt with all of this.
Honestly, calling someone 'toxic' and judging someone by a single mistake has become a trend nowadays, and a lot of you perfect people are riding that bandwagon.

Even some criminals change after given second chances and this people just won't give Hyunjin that. Seriously, stop making disney love stories your basis in relationships. Not everyone has a perfectly healthy relationship yet they still managed.

if you think personal attacks over fiction is okay then i think you should be the one to visit a psychologist

What fantasy am I living? The deniers claiming that Hyujin wasn't toxic are living in a fantasy where they don't think that people being manipulative is not toxic. But I digress. I am not a kid who believed in fairytails anymore. I am long gone past that stage. And nowhere in my comment did I defend sunwoo because sometimes he was just as manipulative. So try again if you think I am trying to take sides. And you say he made one mistake when he was this way the entire series. How is that just one mistake? But whatever.

I don't mind going to a psychologist actually. Everyone needs to see a psychologist in my opinion be ause we all have fucmed up shit that we need to air out from our systems. If you think telling someone to go to see a psychologist is so bad then that is on you. Since when telling someone to see a psychologist to see how their mena health is doing is now considered bad?

The active word "some" criminals change. But explain how exactly has Hyunjin changed from his obssesive and manipulative behaviour from the beginning of the story to the end? Besides him being more open about his obsession what else in his personity did he change? Because I don't see anything else changing besides him becoming more manipulative closer to the ending of the story. And I actually hate sappy love stories generally but dislike even more when there is obvious toxic behaviour in a relationship and everyone drools about how great the relationship is and talking about it being "relationship goals". That kind of relationship is nothing to aspire to have. I am living in reality and not a fantasy, thank you very much. If I can't have a partner who is not toxic, I'd rather be single. And I am not talking about "perfectly healthy" relationships because there is no such thing as perfect. But I still acquire to have a healthy realtionship.

It's funny how you misunderstood my comment sa badly. Did I say he change? No. I'm saying that you're not giving him a chance to. Also, no one is drooling over their relationship. I am pretty much saying that he did mistakes and not justifying any of it. Idk how you were able to twist all of what I said just like that. And honestly, this is not about you. Just imagine if Sunwoo and Jungyeon are a real life couple. So instead of telling them that they should try to work it out, reflect on their mistakes, and get better, you'd tell them to just be single instead. Talking about ruining a not-so-healthy relationship when it still can be fixed. Lol, this is what I'm telling about being unrealistic.

The same way you say I am "twisting" things, you are also twisting my words. The active word I usef was "if it was me" I did not say othee should do what I do. You talk about me misunderstanding your comment but you do the same exact thing. And why should Hyunjin have any more chances to change when he had years to do that? He has been in a relationship which Hyunjin for years and yet he is still the same. Do you expect him to be given chances until thy kingdom come before he decides to change? Hyunjin himself almost ruined his relationship with his boyfriend because he was so insecure, manipulative and did he apologise for it? No. And he said he would apologise for what he did. How can you call that learning from his mistakes which would eventuay lead to him actually changing.

And you are talking about telling someone else in a real life setting but how many people do you know of who are comfortable enough to come out and tells you about their relationship problems and that it is toxic and askes you for advice? Although I have had a few people tell me their relationship issues but they just told me just so I could listen. Not everyone likes to discuss their personal relationship with others even if they are close family and friends. Besides, it is not my place to tell someone how to work out their relationship. This is fiction so everyone can have a say and opinion.

He was insecure because he had a reason to. First, you call him toxic and now you're removing him the right to feel something? Let's just stop here. It's so obvious that you have already settled a judgment on Hyunjin and that it cannot be changed anymore. You don't deserve my time and neither do I deserve yours. The bottomline? Jungyeon still chose him at the end despite of him being 'toxic'. So who won? His bashers or him? Still him. And you're right, this is a fiction so everyone has the right to express their opinion just like how this is kind of an open ending so perfect little shits can imagine that he never changes while others can imagine that he will some day. My point still stands. People hating on him are people that are living on fairytales and are dreaming for a perfect love story. Couples counseling exist for a reason because a lot of couples experience unhealthy relationships. Their relationship might be unhealthy but it's not impossible to still fix it. If they love each other and are really keen on trying to get better, then so be it.

His haters should really just say that they prefer Sunwoo and go.

I'm done here. Please leave my comment and make your own in which it tells how toxic he is for you. Thank you.

Do you hear yourself? Their relationship is unhealthy but that is okay because there is a "possibility" that he may change "some day". Even though they have been in a relationship for years but "some day" we'll wait for him to change. And you are talking about others living in a fairytail when you are the biggest culprit of living in a fairytail. And couple counciling can help people so much. It does not fix anything that is no longer fixable. And where in my comment did I say that I hate him? That is a very heavy word to use for a fictional character. There you go again putting words in my mouth again like you've been doing this entire thread. I simply dislike his personality and how toxic and manipulative he is, ai said nothing about hate.

And if you really can't handle someone commenting on your post why did you even comment? In the comment it is expected that people will respond and like your opinion. Or do you want comments that only agree with your opinion.

As you can see, I have already given your words acknowledgement. You can believe what you want and I can believe what I want as well. Even you yourself said that this is just fiction. I don't even know what you want now. None of my words did you consider but I consider some of yours. You're forcing your opinion on me and that can be a toxic behavior. Let's just say that their relationship is no longer fixable. Let's just say that he will never change. Let's just say that he's toxic. Let's say that all what you said are facts with psychological and moral evidences. Is that you want to hear? Will it make you happy that you "made me" agree with you? Okay, I agree with you so just stop already. It makes me sad how neither of us is 100% sure if he will ever change or not, if the counseling will help them or not, if their relationship will be better or worse. But it seems like you really believe that what all you said are facts. I'm literally just considering two routes for Hyunjin. A changed Hyunjin and an unchanged Hyunjin. But you immediately dismissed the POSSIBILITY of the former.

If I can't handle someone having an opposing opinion, I would've dismissed you since the very first time you replied to me. The reason why I wanted to ended this was because I didn't want this repetitive argument to go on further. But ofcourse you won't acknowldge that again. Lol

I said that Hyunjin CAN fucking change. I didn't say it like a fact like how you 100% believe that he won't. Unless we agree to disagree, this won't stop. I acknowledge your opinion and you can think all you want and you may be right, you may be wrong. I honestly don't fucking care anymore. This argument should honestly end coz we're on opposing sides and unless you consider that neither of us is right or wrong, it won't.

Let's just agree to disagree. Is that okay? This is honestly getting tiring and the cringe of arguing about fictional characters is getting into me. Lol
You made your point and I made mine. Let's end it here decently. :)

I never dismisses any of your points but it is not a logical point because how long are you going to wat for someone to change when they have already been in a relationship for some years. Are tou going to wait 5 years? 10 hears? 15 years? 20 years? How long would you wsit for someone who you've already been with for some years to change when they have shown you that they have not changed at all in the years you have already been with them? Let's say he was a cheater would you give him the benefit of the doubt and expect him to change his ways in the next 5 or 10 years because he has the possibility of changinf after you ha e been with this person for 5 years already? Although this example is a bit extreme but just give it slme thought. And I do not want you to agree with me just to agree because this is a discussion, I am releally not trying to argue with you over a fiction character but what I wrote is actually backed up by evidence.

And please look up the words "toxic relationship" and manipulation. And you clearly see the definitions would describe Hyunjin and his boyfriends relationship
It clearly tells you toxic relationship is characterised by a partner who displays certain behaviour that emotionally and physically (though not as frequently) affect their partner. And we see in the manga that Hyujim affected his boyfriend emotionally by stressing him ouy and making him feel somewhat guilty and worried about their relationship coming to an end using manipulation in many instances in the manga. That is not okay from a psychological viewpoint. That's being emotionally and mentally abusive. Do you have any idea how many people in these types of relationships have ended up mental and emotionally broken by their partners. So what I am saying is scientifically backed up. I am not speaking out from my ass. The longer a person tries to stay with people like this because they think they can be fixed or that they will some day change for them, eventually the person doing the waiting ends up being hurt. That is not right.

Okay, now you're just making an unnecessary argument. Didn't I agree already? What a keyboard warrior.

Did you even read what I wrote? My "arguments" are evident based but now you call me a "keyboard warrior" when I'm actualky statinf facts. Just admit you do not like what I am saying and don't like that I'm proving you wrong.

Also, I'm just talking about a possibility. I keep saying that I can't guarantee that he will change. But you keep on insisting that he 100% won't since waiting for the other partner is not an option for you. And just so you know, we're both right. Many unhealthy couples ended up breaking each other but some were able to actually worked it up. I am speaking from experience. I'm not into sharing personal life in the net but you made me. I was once in a toxic relationship. She literally threatened me that she'd kill herself if I leave, the reason why I stayed eventhough I don't want to anymore. I gave her many chances and she actually changed. Not justifying her behavior though just wanna show you how it is still possible for a toxic relationship to be fixed. Not that it's ideal of course. We're not together anymore but we broke up for a different reason. Just proves how not 100% of toxic relationships go downhill, coz my relationship wasn't one of those. We made it through because we both want to work the relationship up, just like Jungyeon and Hyunjin here.

Btw, I honestly apologize for being rude. But I just really wanna stop here coz you're bringing unnecessary drama in this thread. When all I want for us is to end this conversation and agree to disagree. Goodbye. You're already right, Ms. 100%-sure-backed-up-by-science. Let's both leave.

Now you are just being passive aggressive with your comments of Ms. 100% sure backed up by science. Where did I say it was 100%. Of course, it is not 100% sure for anything in this world. I am not bringing drama I was just stating facts. Is bringing up facts in a converstaion so wrong? And how is that bringing drama? I never forced you to tell me about your past relationship, you did that on your own. Yes, your relationship you were able to get passed that toxicity but how often does that work for every relationship. Do you expect that from every relationship and for it to always work out that way? More times then not the relationship ends up falling apart and then you are left with two hurt people.. yes we are both right but you still don't seem to grasp my original point.

My original point is how long are you willing to wait until you've had enough? I had a friend who stayed in a relationship for 15 to 16 years with a partner when she should have left a long time ago but tried to work it out a d fix it just like you. She ended up drained and fed up with the situation. And she still ended up breaking up with him and is now is almost in her 40s with no kids because she hoped her partner would change but didn't and she didn't want to bring kids into that situation. But now she has to go out to date all over again. Did waiting help her and her partner? Did her change after all those years? No. He is still the same.

Now you are just being passive aggressive with your comment of Ms. 100% sure backed by science. Where did I say it was 100% anything. Of course, nothing is 100% in this world. And how am I bringing drama by just stating facts? Is stating facts so wrong? And also I never forced you to do anything. You brought up your relationship on your own but how often does what hapoene for your relationship happen for others? Do you expect the same thing for every relationship? Do you expect everyone to wait for their partner for years? Yes we are both right but mkre often then not with waiting those people nore times than not still break up and then you are left with two hurt peopel. And you still seem not to grasp my original point.

My original point is how long are you willing to wait before you get fed up? One of my good friends stayed with her partner for 15 to 16 years because just like you she tried to stay hoping her partner would change. Eventually she got fed up and left when she should have left long ago. She is now almost in her 40s, still single and with no kids because she hoped that her partner would change and did not want to bring kids into that situation. Did waiting help her a d her partner? Did her partner change after all those years? No. He is still very much the same.

Lmao. Can you read? I'm talking about POSSIBILITY. That's when the word "CHOICE" comes in. People can choose to stay, people can choose to leave. If the partner wants to stay, then let them be (like what me and Jungyeon did). If the partner wants to leave, then good for them (like what you are implying in which I agree but you misunderstood everything). I didn't say that everyone will be just like my relationship. You are stating a fact but so am I. That's why I said that we are both correct. I keep on agreeing with you so I don't understand why you keep on proving me something I already understand.

I got your original point actually. That waiting is not the key for a relationship to get better. But it's not our choice to judge the choice of the one in the relationship whether he or she should stay. I am not saying that everyone should wait. But you're technically saying that everyone should not (backread and you'll see that it's the implication of your statements). I agreed with you already so I don't know why you keep on barking that this is not that and this is what should be.

Your example actually proved both of our points and not only yours. That it's the choice of the individual whether she or he will stay without any guarantee that his or her partner will change. There's no guarantee because some do change and some don't. May partner changed and hers didn't.

And this is a question that I honestly want you to answer without you getting butthurt. What do you want to prove further since I already acknowledge and agreed to almost everything? Do I also need to agree with your implication that nobody should wait? Please tell me honestly without answering me with a reverse question so that we can stop this and have a conclusion finally.

"My original point is how long are you willing to wait before you get fed up?"

I'm going to answer this personally so this is just my perception for myself and not for anyone else. It honestly depends on the situation. I still loved her that time so I waited, and I didn't know how long. I honestly didn't know why I didn't get fed up but maybe I'm just that patient.

If an individual wants to leave and decided not to wait even a little bit, then they all have the right to as well. I AGREE with you that it's the better choice. But I don't agree that it should be the only choice since for you, nobody should wait. No people should dictate what the individual should do.

Also, I think we can both agree that if a couple with a toxic relationship goes to a psychologist, the psychologist wouldn't be telling the victim, "How long are you willing to wait before you get fed up? You're already together for XX years but s/he still hasn't change." It's because there's actually a lot of factors to be considered and not just the waiting time. One google search and it will actually lead you to a lot of psychologists' statements on why a toxic relationship can still be fixed (not that they're campaigning it, they're just saying that it's still possible).

I can agree with your points but any of my comments did I say that I would not wait? I never said that. I more along the lines said that if a person has been with a person for a number of years already, let's say 4 to 5 years, then I am not waiting another 4 or 5 years hoping for the possibility for you to change. Because before you k ow it your life will have passed before your eyes waiti g on someone more than neccesary and then still nothing comes ojt of it. When instead you could have left and have built a meaningful and happy relationship elsewhere.

And of course, psychologists don't straight out tell the persons to leave a toxic relationship because the person is so used to how things are they do not really see a problem with what others see as toxic. And if they do see it they are too used to it and they usually first want to see what they can do to help improve the situation for the persons involved. If the psychologists straight up just says things like leave then they are not really psychologists. They are trained for these situations and how to talk to people in these situations so that no one gets hurt. Especially the ones trying to leave (or not leave). Because also in a lot of situations people trying to leave these situauons are sometimes end up in a lot of danger and could cause the situation to escalate.

Yes. But I will repeat it again, it won't be your choice but some people will. If they decided to stay then their partners didn't change, then that's on them. It's their life after all and it's not our obligation to meddle. I do agree that all of those years of waiting that they couldve have a better life instead of waiting. But what if them waiting is actually worth it? What if their partners did change after they waited for so long? We really cannot see the future so instead of judging a certain situation and putting a period to it without knowing what may happen, I guess we should just let them decide for their own and not judge them since they're already going through some problems. You see, I agree with you actually. I just don't want to remove all the possibilities and don't want to remove the partners' rights to have their choice. But if you will still insist that it is still impossible and that waiting should not be an option, then dk anymore. I still think that it's the person's choice, not ours. We can just come to a conclusion that you will never agree with me and that I agree with you in some ways and finally stop this discussion.

"...they first usually want to see what they can do to help improve the situations for the persons involved."
Yes, exactly. You chose the right words. They first see if the situations can still be improved and not put a judgment to the situation by only considering the time factor. Because not all toxic relationships' solution is to leave. Sometimes, it can still be worked out.

I do see your point and do agree to a certain degree. I never straight out disagreed with everything you said. And again, like I said three or four comments ago, it is not my place to tell what other should or should not do or judge them. I clearly said that. I did say this being a fictional work allows us to have an opinion and discuss about the situations going on in the story.

And I never in any of my comments did I say waiting was never an option and that Hyunjin would never change. I simply said if they have been together so long already why stay longer and waste your life away for a possibility that may or may not happen. Because in the end, if bothing comes out of it like so many relationships like this, the person who waited in vain will be the one really suffers i the end. Of course, there can be many possibilities but I am rational and logical person and if I have waited long enough I don't see the point of waiting any longer. Again, this is for me alone and I never implied that others should follow my example. But just from seeing and reading so many other people's accounts about how they waited and ended up regretting their decisions to stay in the hopes that their partner wod change, I have come to the conclusion for myself that it is not worth it.