Wynter's Topics (31)

he was waiting in the car instead of going there himself because he was physically unstable, he wasnt even the person that called, it was the driver, why? if he could easily hold conversation why the mc got tired trying to talk to him? he clearly gave up and left a sigh after asking the question about the fingers. even the mc calls him drunk a lot of times and thinks "maybe I should make sure he gets drunk more times" after they start doing it ╮(￣▽￣)╭

The first bit seems like speculation to me. I'm judging his physical capabilities by what we actually see, and we never see him stumble or sway or anything to imply he's wasted.

And they continue to hold multiple conversations after that sighing bit, which is when ML is telling him that he's not especially drunk and MC eventually takes his word for it and drops the subject bc he believes him. The comment about making him drunk more times did make me a bit uncomfy but him making comments (that I imagine were meant to be comedic) about the other acting cute bc he's tipsy doesn't make him drunk

From how I see, he drops the subject because he sees that he's drunk, he thinks something like 'What's the point in talking to him like this...' after that. And you didn't find an excuse for the driver having to call instead of him. Also the MC saying he likes him without thinking, after having thought that he never thought about him that way and not coming to an answer himself yet, he just said it without depth, even though he knows now what the ML 'like' is about, I think he did that because the ML is drunk, and he just wants to go along without having a proper talk about the misunderstanding while he is like that? But for sex, he is okay. #－.－) Theres a lot of nuances like that showing he is drunk and that the MC knows he is drunk

That's fair and makes sense, but it's not how I read the scene. I feel it can be argued that MC isn't aware of the extent of ML's feelings for him. All he knows before that point is that ML maybeprobably tried to kiss him and we know he can be a tad dense in the romantic department.
The part with the driver calling and him waiting for the MC in the car instead of going up honestly didn't feel significant to me but rather the author's way of setting up the scene so we got the reveal of ML all flushed in the backseat. Like I said I'm basing my opinion off of how he actually acts and the fact that I just don't see them adding in all those check-ins from the MC if their intent is to portray that ML is drunk and the other knows it.
I think maybe you're looking too much into MC's intentions and drawing the conclusion that he's actively manipulating ML, no offense intended!
And also I am going off of the raws with my opinion (and my own shoddy translation) where ML is very much lucid during sex and they also have a lengthy discussion about what happened the morning after, during which ML is not even a little hungover and is over the moon about this development

how can it be just a coincidence that the driver had to call? I went to reread this part just to see if I was wrong and it became even worse, the driver said "he is VERY DRUNK and just keep repeating you address..." I think those drivers are common in KR because I already saw this before in others korea dramas/manhwas, people in KR drink A LOT. But lets just get over with this, as you said, he was undoubtedly drunk, but the exact level of intoxication isn't clear. In such cases it's better to be safe, it was a risk he took, waking up the next day with no memory of the wouldn't have been surprising. I don't have any objections to consensual sex while drunk, especially for someone like me who's super shy. But I think it has to be with someone I already trust and have established prior consent with, not as a first-time sex with someone who isn't my boyfriend yet like this...
The MC, tbh, is lacking in common sense, not just in this situation but throughout the entire manhwa. He didn't even consider the possibility that the ML might misunderstand he being gay after showing the dildos and saying he uses it to somethig lol

Eh I wouldn't call it a coincidence, maybe more like a storytelling tactic that doesn't land from an IRL pov, but that's based entirely on my opinion that ML isn't too drunk to be doing this. From your perspective I can see how that would color their interactions badly.
I do agree regardless that it was irresponsible. I've had drunk sex (not totally wasted mind u) with someone I didn't have an emotional connection or relationship with and it was consensual but it doesn't mean I should've done it. Our worldviews are a bit different but I'd say we both agree that having sex with someone who's too intoxicated to consent is wrong and makes that person a POS.
I also think we have very different opinions about the MC lol I personally see him as neurodivergent so some things that should be obvious to him just don't register. He'd probably drive me nuts if I didn't see him that way

Sorry, not to drag this on but I reread it and it's a bit weird that the driver says he's very drunk but he's also able to remember and recite an address that he's only been to once before. Like if he's that drunk there's no way he'd able to recall that info..right? I only have movies and my experience to judge that on lol

Lol, isn't it a common thing for people to get drunk and call their exes? They've got those numbers memorized, and when they're drunk, they call and regret later (￣∇￣"). I never saw this personally, but it's a common joke, or it's in movies and such... I think that scene was meant to highlight just how much the ML likes the MC. Plus, he was kind of passed out drunk/sleeping when the MC arrived; at least, he sobered up a bit before they started... anyway, you might be right; maybe the MC is neurodivergent. I think I might be too. When I said he is lacking in common sense, I don't hate him for that, as I lack in that a lot of times as well. Everyone can be weird like that sometimes. However, I do think that he could learn that, as we both agree, it was kind of risky, it was kind of irresponsible. It's possible that the author's perspective and the differences in korean culture, where people tend to drink heavily, play a role here. For me, it's clear that the MC knew the ML was drunk and took advantage of this, but he didn't see it as wrong. It's not like he was passed out; he could speak, as you said, almost normally, so he could 'consent,' but he was clearly intoxicated, and that was affecting his decisions. So, why let him make such an important decision, like having your first gay experience, which is kind of like a second first time, losing your gay virginity (lol, I don't know, isn't that important?) while drunk? If they were both drunk, it would feel less bad imo. Since the MC was sober, he could have been the responsible one. But anyway, I get your point that he was okay enough to consent too. I guess people can see it both ways, even more when you already read the next chapters raws, but let's just say in real life, knowing just this start, we both agree that it would be the best to play it safe in this case. Imagine if someone got into your house with a driver like that? At least everything ended up well and he wasn't really that drunk, I'm happy. I wonder if they are going out now? The ML knows they both 'like' each other and they had sex, but there's that misunderstanding. The MC will have to talk about it or pretend it never happened (≧∀≦)

Ooh good point, yeah, makes sense that they'd play into that trope. It is a classic lol
Maybe sleeping in the car helped him sober up a lil? Wish MC had gotten him a glass of water or sum at least but I guess they weren't really thinking logically at that point.
I totally can understand where you're coming from here. Also i admittedly had the exact same thought that this would've been more tolerable if the MC had also been drinking so there's not that sharp divide of mental capacities. My base opinions on it still stand but yeah, this isn't how I would've liked for their very first time to go (esp for ML bc of the points you just made) either. It wasn't the MC's finest moment.
I'm really curious to see how everything plays out between them the morning after (tho the sex scene takes place over the next 4 chapters, just so ya know in case you'd rather not read it). I'm a bit worried there's going to be some unnecessary misunderstanding or something but I hope not. I really want the MC to be good for the ML bc he (ML) turned out to be an absolute sweetheart and I love him lol

I think it's okay for people to feel different ways about it so long as we can all agree that improper/incomplete/revoked consent isn't consent and it's BS. And yes, I agree that IRL the best choice would've 100% been to get the ML inside, get him some water/food, then maybe have a lil talk for clarification before letting the ML sleep it off. Tbh I think I was feeling overprotective as well bc there's an overwhelming amount of rape in yaoi and this is one of precious few that I've read and am seeing as wholesome and moderately healthy aha ╥﹏╥

Anyway! I'm really glad we could discuss this like adults and see each other's POVs even a little. It's understandably a very serious and sensitive subject, and I really appreciate you hearing me out despite how frustrated you might've felt (which again, given the subject matter, very understandable) (●'◡'●)

Oh and you're all good, I didn't think you hated him for being a bit of a weirdo! My impression was that you disliked MC's moments of thoughtlessness bc of how they could affect our ML, which makes sense. And y'know there's a saying that if you think you're neurodivergent then you probably are lol I got diagnosed last year as ND but I was self-diagnosed and pretty certain about it for years before that. I'm not certain about the MC of course but he's been giving me those vibes since the beginning. It's like the ML became his special interest lol

Yeah, it was nice, thank you for explaining your opinion like this. Sometimes, when I'm annoyed by something I read, I tend to go on an emotional rant, being a bit harsh at first. Then later I regret it and get apprehensive about reading the replies, especially if people are defending it and being rude in return, so sometimes I just forget about it and stop reading the forums comments etc in question. But you were so nice! Haha, it was a pleasant discussion.
(I read the chapter already a bit uncomfortable because of the things I said, then got even more annoyed with so many people praising the consent here)

I understand why you'd be protective, and this one feels more realistic, psychological, and cute. Rape would ruin everything. What happened was not that bad, it can be somewhat ambiguous. I also adore the ML. It's rare for a male lead to be this shy, cute, and loveable. At first he was annoying but not now, I hope the MC treats him well too; now they have each other to be themselves with, I also hope for a very cute and healthy relationship (▰˘◡˘▰)

By the way, reading this as it's being released is challenging because I forget a lot of things lol. One thing that puzzled me in this chapter was that the ML didn't seem to know how to create a hickey; he was actually biting the MC. Do you recall if the ML is genuinely innocent and inexperienced, even with women? Or was it because he was tipsy/drunk (I don't want to discuss this anymore XD)?

I think you might be right about the MC. As he seemed kind of obsessed, but not in a romantic way yet. I'm curious to see how things will unfold from now on.

Yes agreed! People do forget that their relationship was something both of them agreed to PLUS Yeonwu is someone who knows and communicates what he wants. But I think I also get what other people's qualms are with Taehwan. Like he did specifically say he doesn't want to kiss bit ended up kissing Yw first, he didn't want to see Yw's face and hear noises when doing it but countered all that in recent chapters. I think people are sick of the fact that he breaks the riles he set up and he's in denial about his feelings and I feel them for that. Easier said than done, but I hope both get over their trauma and same, I'm very excited for the character development! (๑•ㅂ•)و✧

That's very true! I'd absolutely say Taehwan is a huuuge hypocrite and he isn't open with himself or Yeonwu like he should be. But it does bother me that so many people are saying he's the most toxic character ever or making it out like he's abusing Yeonwu. I totally get the frustration with him, he is soooo frustrating oml, but he's not like. Evil, y'know? Less evil abuser, more..emotionally stunted asshole, I think lol but yusss, I am HERE for the future healing and character development!

Yes, you said that in the best way i think. Taehwan's not an angel but not the most evil either. He has his issues caused by all the trauma and yes, we're not gonna excuse the shitty things he's said/done but we all shouldn't act like he's the worst either hahaha he deserves healing as much as how Yeonwu deserves all the happiness, love, and support from others. AAAAAH I'M INDEED EXCITED FOR FUTURE CHAPTERS one week is too long (╯°Д °)╯╧╧

PRECISELY
I'm always so nervous posting a comment that I know is gonna be an unpopular opinion haha thank you for being kind (=・ω・=)
ONE WEEK IS SOOO LONG YES OML I am counting the days till the next chapter lol

I understand that feeling entirely! But as long as we discuss properly w/o being aggressive + we remain respectful, hopefully we can retain a peacefull community right cause we can agree to disagree but be ok with it ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~

Can't wait for next chapter aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh

For real.

But people can like the story and dislike Seunghoe tho ? People have the right to say how they feel about this story in the comment section, that's the whole point of comment section ?

Yes of course, I hdespise him as well. But the problem is, many people here criticizing the story, bad mouthing the writer because they don't like it. Certainly, if you came this far reading you must like the story right?..

These kind of people are annoying.

Right like just get out of here and read something they truly enjoy instead of wasting time then when a chapter comes out, they be attacking Seungho.. Urghhh!

Idk... I just think that people have all the right to feel annoyed with him. A comment doesn't have to be positive, that's the whole point of freedom of speech, especially in the comment section. I don't think that disliking this yaoi is disrespectful though. People have their own point of view on the matter. What would be disrespectful would be like, insulting the author or something. But if people are saying he's an asshole and there is too much rape, I mean, they would be right ? That wouldn't be disrespectful since it'd be right ? Even if you like this story you have to admit that it is actually right. You have all the right to like this yaoi but people also have all the right to dislike it and commenting how they feel about it.

Exactly!

Personally, I don't understand why someone would go out of their way to read a manga that they already know they don't like, let alone comment about it as if they didn't know what they were getting into.
But that's beside the point. I'm not denying people's freedom of speech. Sure, you can say whatever you want (though that doesn't mean you should)

What bothers me is people who are disrespecting other readers by saying that the manga itself is trash, or that anyone would would like Seungho is a piece of shit, etc, etc.

Plus, I mean, c'mon. I like this story. I went into the comments to express my enjoyment of it and all I found were dozens upon dozens of comments reacting negatively to it.

It sucks to like a thing and then read or hear about a bunch of people bashing on that thing that you found a connection with, no matter how small.

I mean, some people were expecting so much from this yaoi. They were expecting a whole romantic story lmaooo with a character development or some shit, so they have all the right to be frustrated and pissed of. And that's why they're expressing how they feel in the comments. They feel like they have wasted their time hoping for something that would never happens. You can like this story, it's good for you but you can't be annoyed with the people who expressed how they feel about it because they have all the right to do that, even if you don't agree with them. You can't expect everybody to agree with your point of view, even if it suck,s you have to respect it because I'm pretty sure you're aware that their point of view are legit af. As I said, it's not disrespectful to say that Seunghie is trash because IT IS TRUE. Even the author herself said that he belongs to jail. You have the right to comment your enjoyments but you have to accept that people also have the right to comment their frustration and how they feel about this story even if it's negative.

SeungHOE*

At this point in the story, nobody is reading because they expect a happy, fluffy relationship. They're venting and I can be annoyed at that if I wish. Also really? You're telling me that I can't expect everyone to agree with my point of view, and then in the next sentence you're trying to force me to accept their point of view? Saying Seungho is trash is an opinion, plain and simple, and you have no right to belittle my opinion by claiming that yours is best or factual.
Anyway, I think you're missing my point. I'm trying to convey that, while everyone can say what they want, it's real shitty that there's so many people in comments attacking the author. The readers. And the story itself rather than simply the character. Or do I deserve to be called ignorant and disgusting bc I said I was excited the read another chapter of the story after the author's hiatus?

Yes!!!! It's not real. They argue like Nakyum is their cousin or something. LMAO

Right?? Some of the people here are more heated up over this than Nakyum's sister is lol

lmaooooo alright so firstly you're totally exaggerating my comment. When did I say that you were ignorant and disgusting ?????????????????????, wtf ????????? And trust me, many people are hoping for a cute happy ending with a character development and an eventual love story. I didn't say that you have to agree with other people's opinions, I said that you should accept respect and expect that people have a different opinion. And there might be a few comment in which people attack the author but the majority of the negative comments doesn't attack the author but attack the characters (Seunghoe) or the fact that there is too much rape (which is objectively true). You can't be bothered because too many people don't agree with you lol, that's kinda immature to be honest.

Dude, I didn't say that you said it. I was referring to other people who are saying things like that. Hence the reason for my original post.

So you don't agree that it's wrong to attack the author or the other readers? Bc, as I said, that was the entire point of this post. That's what I was trying to get across, not that people have to agree with my opinion but that they shouldn't bash other people.

Anyway, why is it that other people are allowed to express their annoyance with this manga, but I'm not allowed to express my annoyance with those other people? I didn't attack anyone. I expressed my frustration on a comment, as I'm allowed to just as everyone else, yet you specifically decided to come lecture me? Knowing, I'm sure, that neither of us are going to change the other's minds. It's pointless, and I honestly feel like rather than stating your opinion, you're just trying to scold me bc you disagree

Also, I can be bothered about whatever I want to be. You don't get to dictate how I react. I find it strange that you would try since you're literally saying I shouldn't be doing that very same thing. I feel like we should call a night bc arguing is stressful and it's only going to get ugly the longer this discussion continues.

This is so true like how the other guy says to respect the other people who are disagreeing with seungho's behavior then why don't they also respect us readers who just want to say something positive for him and if GOD can forgive our eternal sins then why don't we forgive? Its just wrong to judge a character when the manhwa is not even finished yet. And they already know what they were getting into before reading this because there is the TAG thingy or GENRE that you can basically see what you were about to read. I know that they have the right to express what they want, but it doesn't mean they can pedegree their believes and pushing it on others. Specially to us peaceful readers, and specially saying rude comments to us why we forgive seungho? Its our right to do what we want and to decide if we want to forgive someone its just straight up rude judging the readers like us that way. （/TДT)/

Right??
I'm down for discussing opinions but it's annoying when I'm trying to be civil and people say things like 'Well even YOU have to admit he's an asshole or beyond help'. Like no, pls don't decide my opinions for me. I'm allowed to like Seungho and I'm allowed to be frustrated when I get hate for that simple opinion.
And why even put your negative opinions out there in the first place? I respect their right to do it, I just don't understand it.
But thank you for the support! I usually avoid posting any comments bc I hate arguing but I couldn't help myself with this one lol

Thank you for saying everything I’ve always wanted to say. You’re the real MVP.

No problamo~
(๑•ㅂ•)و✧