Mistress_RA

Sorry but I might have to disagree, the art an artist makes reflects the artists um..."true nature" and same with the reader and the thing they're reading. For eg if someone enjoys reading a manhwa about s.a. disguised as romance, they're re a creep but a bit less than the author. Im not talking about this particular manhwa but I've seen this trope alot in most works so..yeah, hope you understand bud.

This is so not true.

Yeah like @Rina I would have to disagree. People write all kinds of different subjects that doesn't necessarily mean that is their true nature. Most times people may write about things they know of, want to bring attention to, or MAY fantasize about. SOME could be personal experiences of themselves or a loved one, and others could be of experiences they have heard of or come across some other way. But let's play devils advocate for a moment... Even IF a manwha is the AUTHORS true nature how does it impact you? In what way, besides you forcing yourself to read something so uncomfortable, does this impact you personally/ your day to day life? People really trip me out how they are quick to put labels on people they don't even personally know. So let me ask you, how are you basing your facts? Is there a post somewhere where there was an official statistical investigation about people who write manwha that explicitly states what they write is a reflection of their RL true nature? If so, please provide us those sources? There may be some one interested in following. (Me personally I could care less. I'm here for entertainment purposes.) So outside of that it appears to me you are making an assumption. Those types of assumptions have gotten ppl killed in the past, as well as ruined lives. So bud I don't see what point you were making nor do I understand. What it's looking like is you are the type that judges books by their cover. Metaphorically speaking. That's not a good look. But to each their own. Do you boo. But in the meantime in between time come with something true not what you would like ppl to believe based on your own thinkings.

That’s just not true

Alright idk in what context you're speaking but mine here was mainly ecchi/hentai content or some abusive yaois artists make with the literal label of r*pe or c.p. with actual comments of people 'enjoying' them (which I have accidentally stumbled upon alot) ; i actually agree with the first part about some works being something of an imaginative fantasy or a topic the author wants to bring attention to. I hope you understand what I meant there. Again, bud, idk to what context you took my statement or what proved to be so offensive. I would personally say I am not much of a person who bases books with their covers but I am not one who stands with people liking misogynistic/abusive works because that is them indirectly justifying the authors work. (By abusive i mean content of abuse for the purpose of pleasure, not awareness) And I took the step to say this because I have seen it a lot and it deeply disturbs me.

This is so wrong and harmful to say. I don’t even have the words for this but you are on a very very wrong track …

please consume your media mindfully in a right way. just because people enjoy for example rape fiction, doesn’t mean that they actually think the idea of real life rape is fine. Just because people enjoy horror movies doesn’t mean they want people to be brutally murdered.

i apologize if my text caused any misunderstanding but that is not the idea i was going for. to explain in a broader perspective i would like to explain by saying while fiction and reality are different, fiction shapes real life preferences. by this i don't mean regular horror entertainment or abusive topics for the sake of spreading awareness but misogynistic and abusive things people pass as 'normal" or 'romantic', including p*rn. consuming problematic media doesn’t directly cause harmful behavior, but it undeniably contributes to normalizing toxic attitudes, making them seem more acceptable. Increased awareness and critical consumption of media are crucial in mitigating these effects but it is not the case for everyone; research shows that implicit biases and social norms are influenced by media exposure, often without conscious awareness.
While fiction is a form of escapism, repeated exposure shapes attitudes over time, for eg: A meta-analysis of 31 studies (Malamuth et al., 2000) found that exposure to misogynistic content in media correlates with higher acceptance of rape myths (e.g., "she was asking for it"). please understand my statement in light with these very real life issues and while you may be different (i wouldnt know) not everyone can consume media and not be influenced by wrong ideas. i was originally arguing with the og comments "make believe" assumption. not every "make believe" is justified, kindly understand.

please read my latest comment to understand the meaning i was going for

i have included the so called statistics youd asked for in my later reply to another comment, while you couldnt care less it includes the perspective i was going for in much more detail, ty.

I still don't agree. Sorry for the long ass comment but...I checked out the study you mentioned but 1. the study was aimed at MEN and 2. it was primarily aimed at men who consume pornography featuring REAL women. Also the conclusion of the study was that the pornography consumption was not directly tied to the increase in sexual aggression after all. In the study it was mentioned that it didn't even have to be media depicting violent pornography or in some cases pornography AT ALL. So it kinda delved into how for the consumers who get influenced by media depicting sexual violence, the media serves as "fuel into the fire", it doesn't magically make them into aggressors nor does it make them think rape is ok. Also it is very much different from women consuming yaoi. It is not directly comparable because men in general consume porn for different reasons than women consume yaoi. There are variety of reasons why women consume yaoi while the explicit scenes can often be a secondary reason (check out some fan studies aimed at BL consumers), while men just watch porn to satisfy their sexual urges. Also a huge factor here is that yaoi does not feature any real men at all and that is one of the primary reasons women consume it, because the men there aren't real. Men usually consume porn because they just want to get off. Of course I am not denying that some of the yaoi readers are here just for the sex tho. However in the study you mentioned they referred to the direct connection between violent media and its connection to violence/sexual aggression aimed at real women. Now have you heard about a sexual aggression yaoi reader commited after reading toxic yaoi? Yeah, me neither. And if yes, it would be because the individual is predispositoned or highly suspectible to this kind of stuff in which case they shouldn't be consuming in the first place! This is the "videogames cause violence" argument all over again, which is false. Personally I read a lot of toxic romance. Have I ever thought anything that happens outside of the fictional space would ever be okay in real life? Absolutely not. It did not even alter my views on non-con behavior in my life, I would simply never find it remotely ok. But in fictional space it's just like smashing two dolls together, just play-pretend and a lot of people just see it as that nothing more - it is not the reflection of their character, they just can separate fiction and reality just fine. For a lot of people fiction provides spaces where people can explore things in safe environment. I would even say in some cases that those "make believe" scenarios are the better option when the other option is the real life scenario. Or would you rather see them go and try in real life? Also did you know that yaoi came to be because women wanted to escape from misogyny in the first place?

thank you for replying, honestly i do agree with the argument you make although i might have missed a few parts so i apologize if i miss out any points. longgg, sorry TwT (also its a mess rip) so as said about your argument on media being a fuel to the fire rather than the turning point for aggressive behavior is correct but it does prove my initial point, as you pointed out, the study itself acknowledged that media consumption was more of an amplifier rather than a root cause—it fueled pre-existing inclinations rather than creating new ones. (as in if a predator/p*do makes a work disguising it as romance and another relates or likes it in a certain way it might encourage such actions in an already existing predator) and While you might separate fiction from reality, not everyone does. Some individuals, especially younger readers, may be influenced without realizing it. my point was that the said make believe argument causes many harmful works to be exposed normalizing (or encouraging) wrong ideas among children or predators. there are some works, even as p*rn that can be passed as not harmful when not written from a certain pov to entertain..a certain type of audience but that is not the case for all works. if the author depicts children in a certain way (in a work made for pleasure), has some accusations and even consumes such content he can certainly not be passed as not a predator- so content CAN IN SUCH SITUATIONS tell u about the creators tendencies. ofc its not the case for all works since many women too create fanservice in their works (towards, also, women) but it is because such content has been made before that it continues to be made. Similarly, people who already enjoy dark, problematic, or taboo romance may be drawn to certain kinds of fiction while consuming it doesn’t mean they support it in real life. There’s a difference between consuming dark fiction to analyze it critically versus consuming it because you enjoy the problematic aspects. If someone enjoys non-consensual dynamics in fiction because they see it as romantic, that could reflect deeper social conditioning (as for the author too) if a creator creates an incest relationship constantly in his works that *would* tell u smth about him, no? . as for the yaoi perspective, i have to say i myself enjoy yaoi- it excludes male female power dynamics and excludes misogyny. although as a bl enjoyer i do have to say, most r*pe works include bl and are passed down as non problematic due to the inclusion of males (by female nd male authors, thus shaping a stereotype). there is also yaoi made by male authors or general hentai including s.a. with self insert chars iykwim. my takeaway is- predators also make content as predators and they consume it and there exist works which are too disgusting to be passed as 'just fiction'

like months ago a questionable manhwa popped up on my page with the literal tag being r*pe and when i clicked on the tag ALL (90%) WORKS WERE YAOI which was tbh just sad. while some ppl might consume it for some plot or story.....not all do and if its a work with no story and just abuse, well i see no point. i apologize if i framed smthg wrong

You tried but no cigar. Especially with that weak nonrelavant source/ reference. AGAIN, @Rina did awesome to disprove the nonsense you called yourself trying to come back with. Not only do I agree with what they posted they did and incredible job by adding some additional and very relevant points. I even see you trying to clean up what you said and tried to slide that your point was proven. Nope nope and nope. In YOUR initial og post you made a broad statement in saying and I quote, "Sorry but I might have to disagree, the art an artist makes reflects the artists um..."true nature" and same with the reader and the thing they're reading." NOW there is NO cleaning that up NOR are you correct in that assumption. The ONLY way you can clean that statement up is by apologizing saying you didn't mean everyone and that there are some that show their true nature by what they write/read. And even then that is still speculative. But I definitely agree there are some gross and twisted people in this world. There is no doubt about that. However, in my og post I was pointing out that people need to understand the manwha they read is MAKE BELIEVE, etc. Don't come for me unless I call for you. Maybe you need to go back and reread your initial post a few times so you can understand the gravity of what you posted and the assumptions behind it. Ijs AGAIN! GREAT JOB at @Rina.

I appreciate your perspective, and I see that your comment about "not meaning everyone and that some reveal their true nature through their preferences" may have unintentionally supported my original theory. For that, I sincerely apologize. My main point is that while fictional preferences don’t define an individual, they often reflect what captivates or deeply resonates with them.
It’s crucial to recognize that consuming certain content doesn’t imply endorsement; however, the patterns in someone’s choices can reveal their underlying preferences, fears, or fantasies. As an artist and writer, I create from my own interests, and this creative process undoubtedly reflects aspects of my character. For instance, if someone enjoys romance, that speaks volumes about their emotional landscape.
Moreover, it’s vital to differentiate between mere consumption of content and genuine enjoyment. I realize I may not have expressed that clearly. I've observed many individuals defending their favorite artists, even when those artists exhibit concerning tastes—like extreme sexualization of minors—by dismissing it as "just pixels." While it may not directly be related to the artist or the readers preferences, I find that reasoning problematic and unconvincing. It's essential that we critically examine the content we chose to enagage with instead of dismissing everything as make believe. I apologize for how I expressed this, but I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

When i saw that you were offering an apology, I thought maybe we could give this person the benefit of the doubt. But then I saw "however," and all i could do was chuckle and shake my head. Then, to make sure I wasn't tripping, I shared the post with someone else since I had shared the contents of the og post with the follow-up comments, and they both agree with me. Then I further commented to my partner that since i read the post at 5:30am my time that I'd let it marinate and see if i felt any different after getting some sleep. Nope, nope and again, nope! The reason I quoted your statement and requested for you to reread your own og statement a few times was for you to gain some perspective and to understand what you said hoping you would see how offensive it appeared. But I guess not. And what adds insult to injury is the fact that you stated you were an artist/writer. That's why i chuckled. I initially thought how bigoted or sheltered this person must be to make such a statement as an artist and writer. But seeing as you are claiming to be an artist/writer, you SHOULD know better. And now I really understand what you were doing when writing this last post. You apologized not because you were really sorry but so that you play the manipulation card by appearing humble while trying to justify your initial statement. All you did in your proceeding statement was go on and on and on about how write you were and then slid in tgat you are a artists/writer, like that was supposed to secure why we should think your right. Even if we weren't discussing, make believe I would still say you're wrong. As a creator, YOU of ALL people should know people create for a myriad of reasons, and not just because that is their true nature, as you stated in your og and preceeding posts. And if you don't understand tge concept of everything is not always black and white and that life deals in a variety of colors, even metaphorically speaking, then I would encourage you to go back to the drawing board but first come out of that bubble you appear to be living in. I'm not saying you're a lost cause, but what i will say is that you can't help those like you until they are ready to open their minds and see how vast the world and it's inhabitants are. As I previously stated, there are definitely some gross and twisted people in this world, (there is a long list of media publications about them,), but you definitely shouldn't say that is the majority. There are so many factors beyond manwha that mold the minds and values of people. The start is said to be the parental, home, and in the immediate environment. Some would argue it's the womb, which I low-key kind of agree with. But that is a whole other conversation. I refuse to entertain you because your posts have shown me what I need to know at this point.
Regardless, I didn't mean to go on a tangent but to merely point out, for those who don't really understand or know, that when you are apologizing, there shouldn't be any "but" or "however". The start was decent, explaining the misunderstanding and apologizing. But the moment "however" began was where the decline in sincerity started. That is a form of manipulation. If you don't understand, do your due diligence to get an understanding of what I'm referring to. I'm going to enjoy what's left of this weekend. I feel slow for continuing to entertain a person whose only goal appears to be, not to understand but wanting to be right and/ or seem intelligent. Rather, they are or not remains to be seen. I really have no clue. I initially posted sharing my thoughts on posts and comments I've seen over the years, not with the intention of offending blah blah blah (refer back to og post, lol). Enjoy mangago as this is a safe place to explore and enjoy ANYTHING without anyone being hurt as this is the land of make-believe! You have a choice to move on to something you can enjoy if a manwha makes you uncomfortable or doesn't align with your RL moral compass. ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~ ε=ε=(ノ≧∇≦)ノ

I don't see these characters as real people, I can't fully empathise because I know some of them are pretty much just fetishised or obviously made to evoke certain emotions or feelings. Idk I can be intrigued and enjoy their romance because I love obsessive pairs, but I certainly don't feel the same in real life.

Irl people are much much more complex. Fictional people on the other hand, in BL manhwas especially, are extremely simple and live in a world where many real life consequences won't happen. You know they're just built different because that's how we made them lol

Of course there's a ton of fiction that are literary masterpieces meant to show complex characters and realistic situations, but this is Yaoi/BL/manhwa. It's not made to be on par with Shakespeare, many of them are even just straight up porn.

I see a lot of personal attacks and assumptions about my intentions here, but not much engagement with my actual argument. If you disagree, that’s fine, but let’s focus on the ideas rather than making it personal. I never meant to claim that every single piece of fiction someone enjoys is a direct reflection of their true nature. I did realize my mistake and I did try to make amends to it by explaining my point rather than appearing manipulative. I realize how that might seem and i do apologise as that was not my intention. I am not entirely sure whether or not you understand my initial point (which is why I took the liberty of explaining myself) , which I understand I had missed/misguided which was that not all fiction can be justifiable as make believe in case of the artists and in some cases the reader in context to said gross and disturbing media or media with tones of existing stereotypes in a harmful way. If you are not interested in so you may skip said justification: "" My point was that patterns in media consumption can reveal underlying and existing interests, values, or psychological tendencies. (Obviously not for everyone) That’s very different from saying ‘everything you read is who you are. You mention that some people are ‘gross and twisted’—so would you agree that for those individuals, in some cases, their media choices could reflect existing darker tendencies? If so, then isn’t it fair to say that, at least in some cases, what people consume does have meaning beyond just ‘make-believe’? The content which mangago does contain (as in there are plenty of said distrubing and gross media here) . I am and wasnt aware of this manhwa but rather speaking on a broader term of dismissal. I’m open to discussing different perspectives, but I think we need to be clear about what’s actually being argued. Fiction doesn’t define a person, and to differentiate between fiction and reality is necessary, but it’s not meaningless either. The addition of my statement of being an artist was merely to add my own personal opinion, that I am aware is not the case for all people (even myself sometimes) , but in a sense of metaphor or symbolism rather than an exact fact. I am aware of how grey this world is and that everything and everyone has a variety of layers underneath be it in media or rl. Even artists who do not mean to create works that are questionable (as in underlying tones of misogyny, racism) because of existing stereotypes and prejudices in case of which said media should at least be questioned rather than dismissed. ""
If you’d like to engage with the argument rather than my character, I’d be happy to continue this conversation.
That was the entire point of my whole argument and I never meant to say something offensive. Once again, i apologise for that.
I am aware of how fiction does not entirely define a person's nature and i do understand how my wording may have seemed. I was hoping to clear up any misunderstandings I had caused by saying the wrong thing rather than appear manipulative or "humble" in the argument. I do realise my mistake and how that might've seemed. For that, i offer my sincere apologies. I understand how this is me trying to prove myself right but I am genuinely unsure whether or not my actual point is being understood because I don't necessarily disagree with anything you've said. I once again don't mean to offend anyone but to offer my own opinion. I don't disagree on your argument but rather am trying to add that is not true/justifiable in every case. So...hope you enjoyed your weekend? :) I would appreciate less assumptions about my personality ty. Once again i truly don't mean to offend anyone and I am sorry if I did.

Actually I see myself still trying to justify a missed point and a certain personal opinion only applicable in some cases, so uh, sorry for that ig. I hope I didn't offend you. And for when/if I did, i apologise.

Yesss you're right, i just failed to express my point haha. When I said yaoi I meant romanticized abuse (as normalising, while failing to understand, abuse in media is kinda disturbing as it contributes to a bigger problem of real life abuse)