I don't understand why it's to McQueen to apologize. He apologized more than Ed. But Ed was the unfair one. I know he's in a complex situation from the very beggining but he chose to do porn at some point. I get he was totally naive about the consequences but what do you expect in filming porn ? I think I can still remember he allowed the film to come out and yet was he the one surprised about it. Maybe he did hope that McQueen won't release it but well... Ed was the one who insulted McQueen. McQueen just fought back. He may have been mean. But Ed literaly insulted him for free and threw up his anger in life on McQueen's face.
I either didn't get a thing or something is wrong. I don't know.
Does someone see it that way too ?
EDIT: no rage, I'm just trying to figure this out with a peaceful debate :)
Me, everyone says Ed was manipulated by mcqueen. I never saw that. I read this webtoon from the very first chapter and every time I finished one I was reading the comment section. I haven't found a SINGLE comment about mcqueen manipulating ed while he was supposedly doing it. the funny part is the only comments I remember from that time was how everyone wants to see ed and mcqueen fuck and coudn't wait for it even though supposedly it was at cost of manipulating ed into filming a porn XD That only prooves to me how much of a hipocrites people are XD
Think you are missing the point, it's a power imbalance here. Glen has capital, he has awards from his non-sex work film, he owns multiple companies of different porn genres and a fantastic property in New York. He comes out of this "scandal" fairly unscathed. He never has to deal with the problems Ryan and Ed face, about being spotted on the street by a fan, feeling uncomfortable and paranoid that the person on the train could have seen him have sex, that Cecil might be witness to a fan telling his Dad about xyz scene.
Ed loses his job as a result of Glen, call it direct or indirect if you want, but Glen never safeguarded Ed, nor did he try to contact Ed when Ed was fired and struggling alone. Glen's actions traumatised Ryan, a man he has taken advantage of due to Ryan's frail mental state due to being an abuse victim, an addict, who is desperate for money for his dependent. Glen even lives with Ryan for 4 years, a complete crossing of boundaries, which is just sick when you consider Cecil only calls Creed by his porno stage name, Glen. It could have been an interesting story about how straight men like Ryan and Ed get trapped into the world of sex work, be it straight or same-sex.... but then we get a whole load of yaoi logic, and as other have pointed out, be it the rapes or the pairings... made it such a let down.
I get where you're coming from. In the previous episode when Mq apologised, it kinda pissed me off because if you look back at the story as you said, the one who went completely overboard in his words was Ed. He was panicked at hurt at his own world crumbling, and took it out at 100% on Mq. So it felt unfair that Mq was the one who apologised, and on top of it got brushed off by Ed after apologising. But this episode kinda served as an epiphany. And I love it for that. Yes, it is Ed who should be apologising. But Mq having the courage to reach out first enabled them to open the dialogue up again and give Ed the occasion to do just that. Mq put aside his pride for a minute to salvage what was really important to him, which was their relationship. Having the courage to apologise in that situation is no small thing. I guess you either expect your partner to show that courage and refuse to take a step towards them until that's the case, in which case you very well risk losing your relationship because of your pride. Or you give them a chance by easing the stage for them, which in this case was rewarded by the most heartfelt of apologies. That kind of courage is something that can be built slowly, so reaching out to the other is a way of also helping your partner build up that courage. Of course if it is always the same person that apologises for everything whatever the circumstances, it is quite an unbalanced relationship, bordering unhealthy. But this feels more like a situation of compromise rather than a habitual one way thing. Don't know if my rant helped ^^' But feels good to see that I was not the only one feeling weird about the Mq apology :D
Me, everyone says Ed was manipulated by mcqueen. I never saw that. I read this webtoon from the very first chapter and every time I finished one I was reading the comment section. I haven't found a SINGLE comme... VioWizka
I agree with you. I never felt like McQueen manipulated Ed. Ed may have been desperate but he chose his fate. I mean, you don't go play porn and don't want to deal with the results ! I just felt like McQueen did his job. Ed wanted an opportunity to earn more money by filming porn, he got it. He wasn't just honnest enough with himself or just to naive to deal with the consequences.
For me, Ed was just thinking that McQueen was the responsible of this disaster even thought McQueen just did his job... To earn money by filming porn you need people watching it... Simple as that. No surprise.
Think you are missing the point, it's a power imbalance here. Glen has capital, he has awards from his non-sex work film, he owns multiple companies of different porn genres and a fantastic property in New York... @Anonymous
Thanks for this interesting point of view.
Actually the only answer I can find to that is that if you don't want to get caught, you don't do what you were going to do. They desperate. Ok. But no one forced them to play gay porn. They just accepted it. They came by themselves. This is why I don't get this situation.
I agree with you when you say McQueen didn't protect Ed from the consequences of this scandals. But he did his job. You can't wait for people filming porn to stay anonymous. Well that's my point of view. Ed just seemed to forget about the possibles consequences on his life.
The background story with Ryan is for me not clear enough. I do get that he's devastated about the mistake he did by filming porn. And here to, I can only say I don't get why this is McQueen's fault. He did his job... It's only the world that is harsh.
I get where you're coming from. In the previous episode when Mq apologised, it kinda pissed me off because if you look back at the story as you said, the one who went completely overboard in his words was Ed. H... @Anonymous
You said everything I guess, thanks :)
That's true, it's often the same people saying they're sorry. Love is never 50-50 but more variable.
I think unfortunately that the story misses some details, some background story details or more clear thought instead of hypothesis and doubt of Ed we are always reading.
I'm glad I'm not alone to be a bit upset about this situation :)
You said everything I guess, thanks :)That's true, it's often the same people saying they're sorry. Love is never 50-50 but more variable. I think unfortunately that the story misses some details, some backgrou... Zazou
that was not a 100% consent. i guess you can call this dubious consent. because Mq played his cards right. That is why there is manipulation that was going on. mq took advantage of it.
this is my take why mq apologizes so much to Ed. mq knew the one who will take the blow in the scandal would be ed. he knew he was dependent of him on income and he chose not to contact Ed for a while.
yes, ed’s words were so painful, but personally, compared to that, the result for Ed from which the scandal came out is much more worst... and mq knew he also played part of it and was taking responsibility of it.
that was not a 100% consent. i guess you can call this dubious consent. because Mq played his cards right. That is why there is manipulation that was going on. mq took advantage of it.this is my take why mq apo... RecessiveGene
Right, interesting point of view here as well. It's true that McQueen may have taken some advantages or opportunities.
But in the mean time, did you felt like McQueen was really playing with Ed's feelings (for example when he took distance, does it mean to you that he was just playing in the beggining ?) ? I felt more like it was a normal relationship going on. McQueen even asked Ed if it was ok to release this DVD. Yes Ed may have been felt pressured because he doesn't seem to be really able to say no to McQueen. Maybe it's there that I got lost. But I never felt like McQueen wasn't sincere. I just feel like the whole thing is a big misunderstanding. Ed let the choice to McQueen and McQueen took the wrong decision. But once again, Ed should have said no... What's your feeling about that ?
Right, interesting point of view here as well. It's true that McQueen may have taken some advantages or opportunities. But in the mean time, did you felt like McQueen was really playing with Ed's feelings (for ... Zazou
yes, I also feel that mq’s love was genuine, but that was not like that at first, afterall Ed was the first to fall in love with him so it was all about work to him.the moment he released those DVDs, I think Mcqueen failed here as a lover, his passion as a porn director and to create quality porn paved more.
I think Ed was drunk in love to not agree, leaving it mcqueen is the same as “yes”. i think he was not really in full capability to agree at this point, thats why i used the term “played his cards right” because Mq did not really plan for this to happen but he did Seize the chance, discovering that sensual porn was such a hit etc. I think Mq was baiting for him and it was unfair of him to ask of this after all the porn was finished, because ed was so indebted to him to say “no”. I wish he should have said no. but with his standing... i understand that he left mq with the decision...
which was heart breaking that mq still went on with it despite knowing the consequence of it (ryan’s ordeal). as a lover would you really be willing to show the world of your lover that is naked and vulnerable?...
personally, what will make this feel all right is if only he asked Ed before making series of porn that it will no longer be just an “amateur”. he did kind of change the title of the DVD...
I don't understand why it's to McQueen to apologize. He apologized more than Ed. But Ed was the unfair one. I know he's in a complex situation from the very beggining but he chose to do porn at some point. I get he was totally naive about the consequences but what do you expect in filming porn ? I think I can still remember he allowed the film to come out and yet was he the one surprised about it. Maybe he did hope that McQueen won't release it but well... Ed was the one who insulted McQueen. McQueen just fought back. He may have been mean. But Ed literaly insulted him for free and threw up his anger in life on McQueen's face.
I either didn't get a thing or something is wrong. I don't know.
Does someone see it that way too ?
EDIT: no rage, I'm just trying to figure this out with a peaceful debate :)
Me, everyone says Ed was manipulated by mcqueen. I never saw that. I read this webtoon from the very first chapter and every time I finished one I was reading the comment section. I haven't found a SINGLE comment about mcqueen manipulating ed while he was supposedly doing it. the funny part is the only comments I remember from that time was how everyone wants to see ed and mcqueen fuck and coudn't wait for it even though supposedly it was at cost of manipulating ed into filming a porn XD That only prooves to me how much of a hipocrites people are XD
Think you are missing the point, it's a power imbalance here. Glen has capital, he has awards from his non-sex work film, he owns multiple companies of different porn genres and a fantastic property in New York. He comes out of this "scandal" fairly unscathed. He never has to deal with the problems Ryan and Ed face, about being spotted on the street by a fan, feeling uncomfortable and paranoid that the person on the train could have seen him have sex, that Cecil might be witness to a fan telling his Dad about xyz scene.
Ed loses his job as a result of Glen, call it direct or indirect if you want, but Glen never safeguarded Ed, nor did he try to contact Ed when Ed was fired and struggling alone. Glen's actions traumatised Ryan, a man he has taken advantage of due to Ryan's frail mental state due to being an abuse victim, an addict, who is desperate for money for his dependent. Glen even lives with Ryan for 4 years, a complete crossing of boundaries, which is just sick when you consider Cecil only calls Creed by his porno stage name, Glen.
It could have been an interesting story about how straight men like Ryan and Ed get trapped into the world of sex work, be it straight or same-sex.... but then we get a whole load of yaoi logic, and as other have pointed out, be it the rapes or the pairings... made it such a let down.
I get where you're coming from. In the previous episode when Mq apologised, it kinda pissed me off because if you look back at the story as you said, the one who went completely overboard in his words was Ed. He was panicked at hurt at his own world crumbling, and took it out at 100% on Mq. So it felt unfair that Mq was the one who apologised, and on top of it got brushed off by Ed after apologising.
But this episode kinda served as an epiphany. And I love it for that. Yes, it is Ed who should be apologising. But Mq having the courage to reach out first enabled them to open the dialogue up again and give Ed the occasion to do just that. Mq put aside his pride for a minute to salvage what was really important to him, which was their relationship. Having the courage to apologise in that situation is no small thing. I guess you either expect your partner to show that courage and refuse to take a step towards them until that's the case, in which case you very well risk losing your relationship because of your pride. Or you give them a chance by easing the stage for them, which in this case was rewarded by the most heartfelt of apologies. That kind of courage is something that can be built slowly, so reaching out to the other is a way of also helping your partner build up that courage. Of course if it is always the same person that apologises for everything whatever the circumstances, it is quite an unbalanced relationship, bordering unhealthy. But this feels more like a situation of compromise rather than a habitual one way thing.
Don't know if my rant helped ^^' But feels good to see that I was not the only one feeling weird about the Mq apology :D
I agree with you. I never felt like McQueen manipulated Ed.
Ed may have been desperate but he chose his fate. I mean, you don't go play porn and don't want to deal with the results !
I just felt like McQueen did his job. Ed wanted an opportunity to earn more money by filming porn, he got it. He wasn't just honnest enough with himself or just to naive to deal with the consequences.
For me, Ed was just thinking that McQueen was the responsible of this disaster even thought McQueen just did his job...
To earn money by filming porn you need people watching it... Simple as that. No surprise.
Thanks for this interesting point of view.
Actually the only answer I can find to that is that if you don't want to get caught, you don't do what you were going to do.
They desperate. Ok. But no one forced them to play gay porn. They just accepted it. They came by themselves. This is why I don't get this situation.
I agree with you when you say McQueen didn't protect Ed from the consequences of this scandals. But he did his job. You can't wait for people filming porn to stay anonymous. Well that's my point of view. Ed just seemed to forget about the possibles consequences on his life.
The background story with Ryan is for me not clear enough. I do get that he's devastated about the mistake he did by filming porn. And here to, I can only say I don't get why this is McQueen's fault. He did his job... It's only the world that is harsh.
You said everything I guess, thanks :)
That's true, it's often the same people saying they're sorry. Love is never 50-50 but more variable.
I think unfortunately that the story misses some details, some background story details or more clear thought instead of hypothesis and doubt of Ed we are always reading.
I'm glad I'm not alone to be a bit upset about this situation :)
that was not a 100% consent. i guess you can call this dubious consent. because Mq played his cards right. That is why there is manipulation that was going on. mq took advantage of it.
this is my take why mq apologizes so much to Ed. mq knew the one who will take the blow in the scandal would be ed. he knew he was dependent of him on income and he chose not to contact Ed for a while.
yes, ed’s words were so painful, but personally, compared to that, the result for Ed from which the scandal came out is much more worst... and mq knew he also played part of it and was taking responsibility of it.
but that’s just me talking...
Right, interesting point of view here as well.
It's true that McQueen may have taken some advantages or opportunities.
But in the mean time, did you felt like McQueen was really playing with Ed's feelings (for example when he took distance, does it mean to you that he was just playing in the beggining ?) ?
I felt more like it was a normal relationship going on. McQueen even asked Ed if it was ok to release this DVD. Yes Ed may have been felt pressured because he doesn't seem to be really able to say no to McQueen. Maybe it's there that I got lost.
But I never felt like McQueen wasn't sincere. I just feel like the whole thing is a big misunderstanding. Ed let the choice to McQueen and McQueen took the wrong decision. But once again, Ed should have said no... What's your feeling about that ?
yes, I also feel that mq’s love was genuine, but that was not like that at first, afterall Ed was the first to fall in love with him so it was all about work to him.the moment he released those DVDs, I think Mcqueen failed here as a lover, his passion as a porn director and to create quality porn paved more.
I think Ed was drunk in love to not agree, leaving it mcqueen is the same as “yes”.
i think he was not really in full capability to agree at this point, thats why i used the term “played his cards right” because Mq did not really plan for this to happen but he did Seize the chance, discovering that sensual porn was such a hit etc. I think Mq was baiting for him and it was unfair of him to ask of this after all the porn was finished, because ed was so indebted to him to say “no”. I wish he should have said no. but with his standing... i understand that he left mq with the decision...
which was heart breaking that mq still went on with it despite knowing the consequence of it (ryan’s ordeal). as a lover would you really be willing to show the world of your lover that is naked and vulnerable?...
personally, what will make this feel all right is if only he asked Ed before making series of porn that it will no longer be just an “amateur”. he did kind of change the title of the DVD...