Laden's Topics (71)

he's*

Agreed like even the similarities between the two are insane some scenes put side by side are pretty much the same situation playing out like when they played games together, him getting drunk and taking him home, the jealousy with heesung, etc

cardboard*

Hey, you just reminded me a girl I see on tiktok. Let me try to rephrase her:

"Pretending to be happy because it WAS the end of the word when I got class consciousness and now I can't see anything in peace"

Lol
I got you

this describes my thoughts and feelings so well!! literally at first, or at least for me, rashta wasn't dislikable. she was literally just a former slave who got the admiration of the emperor. like she wasn't antagonistic, just a girl who was uneducated who suddenly became a concubine.

like i guess it's normal for her to have some character development because of all the things that happened, but it definitely feels like the author made her worse on purpose to make her more hateable.

I think it is a subversion, for what I see author is tired of the typical and nonsense Cinderella troupe when we all know that the "prince charming" has a wife who he was engaged or knew his whole life, whose marriage was political but was also about partnership, and to begin with no man is so crazy in love to the point of making a commoner a queen without some kind of circumstances, in Normal novels we all know she would turn up to be a saint, magician or suddenly missing NOBLE parents showing up desperate to claim her and I think it is very realistic that it was all fabricated.....cuz obviously
And of course a georgious and charming slave or poor girl reached adulthood as a complete virgin with no past or kid and was not noticed by no man.....but she somehow was well kept enough to be "fragile"(meaning she didn't do manual labor)
And of course a SLAVE GIRL who suffered her whole life ACTING LIKE A KID is no mental health issues and even if it is obviously she will only have the adorable parts of infantilism and be a kid in her heart....but she will also be smart enough to out of nowhere to "find", "plot" things.....in q place where no one has no reason to like her, she had her charm as a poor girl, author makes really reference other stories like "she was a bean of fresh air" and trying to be close to the with the one she just stole the life partner
To me remarried empresses is almost relieving cuz it makes sense of all the others Cinderella stories and "angel like" MC
PS: I do not hate Rasta cuz here her actions has consequences, even if she try to not deal with it, yeah she is a traumatized girl with infantilism but the point of this story is exactly "does it excuse her behavior?" Because of that the whole world should bend for her to be happy? Should people like her?

I don't know if you are that young or is not a romance reader for long but remarried empress was a pioneer in that sense of "why does this woman who studied hard and had endless etiquette classes is suddenly acting crazy?"
The truth is if both woman where satisfied with what they have and stayed out of each other way (like queen was trying to do) this story wouldn't be any different of the history of European nobles and their wife's and mistress, and everything would end like the man wishes,
queen showed her ambitious when she chose to marry Henry, her ambitious and what she wanted was being a queen, in this world there is no greater woman job, rasta being bad at something that demands a lifetime of dedication is obvious, there is no way she would be good at it

It's a subject def worth bringing up, this wouldn't be the first author who (unknowingly?) added this kinda subtext into the story. Like Sid said, more than anything they prob wanted to put a twist on the whole innocent/saintly peasant concubine trope, but int the end it does give "dumb peasants should stay humble"-vibes. Mangas with villainess MCs often stumble into that aswell, honestly someone (ME) could write whole essays about this. It's like a whole thing, pointing out the suffering of upper-class women while invalidating issues of lower classes.

Either way, they def missed out on making Rashta an interesting villain regardless imo. I was also hoping she'd have more bite and personality bc of her history, but in the end the story's focused on 100% indulgence by making the bad guys vicious dumbasses. I feel like she gets the most bad guy points than the Emperor, and I feel it should be the other way around, he's the main cause and issue of all this.
At the beginning of the story I was actually trying to relate and understand her, like ofc she'd try to gain the upper hand with the Empress after being powerless and abused bc of that powerlessness all her life.

I think rastha is a really Interesting character, and the story tried to show that, her conflict with her first baby, the second one, her relationship with sovieshu, Duke Ergy, her first lover, Henry and empress, she is a victim, even when she is also a vicious bitch a victim is a victim and BECAUSE she is a victim she is unstable, vicious, clingy and abusive
The truth is most victims does not fit the perfect poor victim imaginary and I think it is interesting how like in real life when rastha was not fulfilling everyone's ego they had no use for her
I even like the social dynamics where it is also very common that the lowest in that chain when "climb up" think they are so much better than everyone with a meritocracy mind set "what I got was fully my efforts but what I couldn't get was fully the words fault" the same way everyone above this people are inferior cuz they didn't had to climb there while the ones bellow are inferior cuz they couldn't get there, cuz rastha didn't get a face to face help from other commoners who she knows doesn't had enough to help her she failed to see the path they made so she could get there, like the commoners journalists, assistants, maids and magicians because someone before her made that climb first the distance between commoners and nobles where not impossible to reach.
Actually I see that both the people totally hating on rastha (with reason) asking themselves why they have to show her and her "drama" so much and the people pitying her claiming she was not well done or didn't have a personality both failed so see why remarried empress is the fingerprint that other basic soap opera comics try to copy
The only way rastha could ever had a better life was staying forever as a mistress....but just as you and other readers, rastha herself had her prejudices and pride to keep, no one beats a system alone not even empresses that without help would also have to make the same decision of letting all she ever believed, her pride and humiliation go or risk to lose everything
And I liked sovieshu end not one more tyrant dying while being tortured but as a forever remembered

+as a foolish education infertile emperor who died pathetically after being declared unfit to rule for nobles and commoners alike

I mean, all the things that happened to Rashta made sense and were deserved in my opinion, and I side with Navier more for mostly one reason: their personalities. I personally feel like if you were to switch their backgrounds/situations I'd still root for Navier because of the type of woman she is.
Because yes Navier is an aristocrat who got a good education, a loving family and all of that stuff but she still took her job seriously. She took her lessons seriously and studied and she made sure she was up to date on the affairs of her country. She did her best to be respectful to everyone even if she didn't like them. She went above and beyond in those aspects because she knew her position came with certain responsibilities and she took pride in the work it took to maintain herself to a certain standard.
Meanwhile, Rashta takes pride in her *position*. When she was a slave she was resentful because she was of the lowest position in society, but once she climbed up to Emporor's mistress what did she do? She started thinking less of the people that used to be "above" her and abusing her power. When she was told it would be difficult to become Empress, her top priority wasn't learning about the country she was going to be leading - all she cared about was spending time with Soveishu. And her not learning how the country operates ends up being the thing that tears her down a lot of the time: her not knowing how the promissory notes worked, her not knowing the significance of her dealings with Duke Ergi, her not knowing that she can't just cut a maid's tongue out willy-nilly "because she's the Empress", all of those occurred because she didn't make any attempts to learn or check on what the laws or affairs of their country had to say.

Now obviously their upbringing played a major part in shaping who they grew up to be, but I definitely think if the roles were reversed Rashta would still be a stuck up noble and not a very good Empress given how impulsive/rash (and sometimes bratty) she tends to be. Whereas Navier would probably be a quiet reserved slave girl, and might even have made her own attempts to learn how to read/write or try and find her own way to pay off her slave debt. I honestly doubt she would even have wanted to get with Soveishu. Because if she went through what Rashta went through (being abandoned by Alan iirc, cuz I think he promised to free her and then didn't) then I doubt she would want to be the reason another man betrays his wife in some way, or would at the very least understand why a woman in the "wife" position in this scenario would probably dislike her.

So yeah I don't think it's classist.

I think we can say with certainty that like 90% of shoujo writers don't even consider bringing up classism. I personally agree with you on that, 0 doubts.

But, wouldn't it make the story and especially Rashta as a character not much better if it came up? As you said, this story is more so character-driven, imagine Rashta as a Marxist villainess who's still very egoistic and dumb but at least she has a point to make. At least I think that would've been nicer than a powerhungry bimbo with no substance.
You have to admit, at the start she was certainly a bit smarter than in later chapters.
She becomes solely dumb and powerhungry, yes perhaps bc of her personality, but I felt it was written more so to satisfy the readers, if you get what I mean. For the fun of seeing her dig her own grave.
The story's STILL fun regardless, but it's a missed opportunity imo, like in many shoujo stories.

It's worth looking at, how unexpectedly classist some shoujo manga/manhwa are, the subtext is almost always there, even if unintended, especially your typical villainess reborn plots fall into it.
It's almost a reflection of how slowly the public thinking is becoming less liberal, like the female nerd parallel to the sigma male grindset content on tiktok and so on. We could also bring up how shoujo content is very white-women coded, thus eliminating the struggles of discriminated peoples aka lower classes again. Don't even get me started on the way peoples with any amount of melatonin are coded in most shoujo content.
And so on, and so on- You get the gist, it's simply interesting to take a closer look and over-analyse.

I agree with you rastha would still be a bitch but she would surely be a smarter bitch, as I said in my comments she has infantilism, it is a disease where when presured and in stressfull situation the mind "regress" to a children behavior(I think author says she has botherline sinse she lets her emotions control her...my mother has it and she does also act like a child sometimes) this behavior was surely "rewarded" with sympathy, rastha was abused, used and traumatized as well as deprived of education and a uneducated person don't know the power of education, a person with her background would have trust issues, she can only depend on thirsty man cuz until now it is the only way she got anything, she hates everyone at the same time wants everyone's approval, without considering the difficulties of a late alphabetized person, that in real life most after years can't read fluently a single page imagine a old book about politics or laws
Rastha is a fast and adaptable learner, we see that when she tries to imitate Navier, she is also sensitive to her surroundings, has good intuition(in her mind most of the time she is right but it doesn't translate to her actions) and is highly sociable these kind of things shine on her even in the situation she finds herself, as a noble she would probably be satisfied with her position (as she was in the beginning of being a adored mistress, she would know that higher positions would demand a boring life style and she clearly is a outgoing and bratty person) she is a attention seeker so she was going to be the most annoying kind of pick me, white flower for sure but she would most likely be a winner, having a stable circle of bitch friends and casually creating small scandals for diching a lower class person or for flirting with a guy, popular girls are good marriage material(politically for connection with oner nobles) even more a pretty one (who is a status) and have the luxury to choose a partner so she would be set for life even more if she direct her ambition to being a envied prize(getting a good marriage) if we believe her goals to be the same as now "living in luxury and leisure, receiving attention, being in center of society"
still a bitch, most likely would ruin lots of people life's for dump and vain things, surely be a cheater, a warfull mom (most likely use them as status and extensions of herself a narcissist mom for sure besides not wanting to deal with the harsh parts of motherhood) and a commoner hater

I can't with you rashta defenders. the problem isn't her being "poor" the problem is her being a hoemwrecker (Sovieshit is a cheater too ik but so is she no matter her status, WHICH DOES INDEED MAKE HER A SL*T). also her leaving her baby daddy was her making her own bad choices. i truly don't understand u guys acting like she could never do no wrong when she littlerly killed someone without a second though meaning she always had it in her. And just because Navier is rich and high class doens't mean she doesn't experince her own hardships. She got publicly umilaited and heartbroken

I AGREE

"Rashta at the beginning" was worse than Trashta now lol because she always seemed so rash (as her name sake) and stupid. Also have you seen official art? In an official art there was Navier laughing with trashta as she petted trashta's head at the western castle gardens, showing that if trashta wasn't so vain Navier would have taken her under her wing (even though Navier, more than any one deserves her happy ending with Hienry).

I can't with you people with smooth brains who can't see any sort of nuance in the media you consume. Imagine being this unintelligent to write something like this "the problem isn't her being "poor" the problem is her being a hoemwrecker" that's some clown shit.
Anyway I'm not a "Rashta defender" but I guess for someone like you my post may read like one. I was actually really interested in other people's opinions on this matter but I forgot there are people like you.
Here I'll give you what you want:
OH MY GOD YOU'RE SO RIGHT Rashta is such a stupid HOMEWRECKER and her being "POOR" has absolutely nothing to do with this. THANK YOU THANK YOU for making me see reason HAIL OUR QUEEN NAVIER!!1!!!
I hope this satisfies you now you can go on and continue with your brainless consumption somewhere else <333

"OH MY GOD YOU'RE SO RIGHT Rashta is such a stupid HOMEWRECKER and her being "POOR" has absolutely nothing to do with this. THANK YOU THANK YOU for making me see reason HAIL OUR QUEEN NAVIER!!1!!!
I hope this satisfies you"
That does satisfy me thank you :D
Also something tells me u wouldn't be willing to listen to other opinions because of how u replied to me as I don't care how you replied to others lol. Ur yapping about this story being "classist" tells me all I need to know about every comment ur gonna make and the brain rot angry comment ur definately gonna make to reply to this one. Also, just cause u don't agree to my take on this doesn't make me "smooth brained" lol

At the end of the day she is a homewrecker and her stupid descions led her to where she is now. If she would atleast been decent towards navier no one would be nearly as angry. But she is a stupid, homewrecking, murderer at the end of the day stay mad :)

So reading comprehension isn't your strong suit ig? No one is or was trying to defend her actions or character, it's more so about how she was constructed by the author.. since yk, this all ain't rl or whatever. Just making sure the gears ain't getting rusty. By taking a closer look at the story, it's lowkey classist even if not intended, that was the whole point, that's it. Who the fuck reads this and defends Rashta's in-universe actions? No one, so sit down child.

You know that I wouldn't be willing to listen to other opinions because of how I replied to you but at the same time you don't care how I replied to others? Yhm that makes sense. I know it's hard to accept that we're stupid sometimes but what can you do?
People here made some really nice and thought-out arguments about why they like the story, Navier, why they hate Rashta and think she deserves what's coming to her, and most importantly why they think the author wrote this the way they did then you came here and wrote your "me vs those Rashta defenders" completely lacking any depth "take". People like you are annoying and ruin nice conversations with your lack of understanding of complexity. This is going to be my last 'brain rot angry reply" I'm going to give you since you're clearly looking for some mindless fight. Please go somewhere else because it's embarassing reading whatever next rubbish you write. I'll be "staying mad"

That official art was from rastha delirating while dying in jail, that was all she ever wanted

"sit down child" lol u really though u did something and I mainly just said this to make the other person mad cause they got so angry at my last reply lol

"I know it's hard to accept that we're stupid sometimes but what can you do?" lol this is so extremely funny and ironic coming from u and obviously im not gonna spend time reading ur other reply cause my impression of u from how u replied to me is all i need to know. And its so sad that ur content with being so mad but okay if this is ur last reply :)

Damn then she shouldn't have acted so bratty and maybe she would have gotten it. I feel bad for Nvaier cause she even left all of her saving to Trashta and Trashta just gave it all away :(

This isn’t classist at all. These days too many are constant VICTIM mongers. Nobody is responsible for their own behavior. Let’s take those who grow up poor, in the projects, surrounded by absent fathers, drug addict mothers, etc. some choose to use that excuse to lead a shitty life. However, many others work their asses off and fight their way out. It’s a choice. Now let’s say you come from a family with everything. You have it all, but parents are too busy for you. Some decide to be rich brats, do drugs, drive their $80,000 cars from mommy and daddy, too fast and kill people. Others choose to overcome.

Rashta had choices. Navier wanted to teach her, she refused. Navier gave her important advice, she ignored it. Did she have stupid ass fucking men giving her bad advice all her life? Yes, but she kept listening to them. At some point people become responsible for their own behavior. You can’t play the damned victim card your entire freaking life. Learn from your experiences or pay the price. She paved the road that she took. In the beginning I can see a person in that position, faltering, but at this point it’s all on her. Not a classist thing. It’s a stupid person too damned lazy to take the hard road.

You had some good takes and almost understand how the world works but failed in the meritocracy discussion,
As someone who grew up poor, surviving by governments projects, with a absent father, adicted mother and surrounded by people in the exact same situation and "fight my way out" and made it I feel the extreme need to defend the ones who didn't made it, Don't take me wrong I believe everyone should deal with the consequences of their actions and that when a person chose to willingly do harm she automatically already acepted the punishment,
BUT let's not be hypocrite here, it's not fifty-fifty disproportionately a poor kid will most likely not make it and a rich kid will make it, the system works this way, you can't point at the 1 in 100 and say "he made it so you didn't cuz you didn't try hadder" I won't let you, don't talk about the choice between the knife and the gun
For some of the people I grew up with "the easy path" consequences was way better than the life of their hard worker parents/sisters/brothers who lowed their heads gave their all, endured it, studied, made everything right in the path society tells them and still got nowhere, while others never had a choice in the first place and don't say "die of hungry with your crying kid" is a choice
most poor people are hard workers, if they don't work they die if they want any kind of leisure or confort they HAVE to work harder, but the one in 100 didn't made it cuz they "work while others slept" this statement is so funny cuz most poor people work/study from 7 to 18 + 2 hours to come and go from work + domestic labour if they want to have a chance in moving up to a better job of course they will study while others sleep....if they manage to stay awake, they get one free day in a week...if they work legally....and most likely have to do all what they couldn't in a week to get SOME leisure time and you know most won't go anywhere, what diferenciate the ones who do to the ones who don't is pure lucky, try hard will help you get a chance that's all, and maybe you get a chance maybe the one who didn't try that much get this chance instead, maybe he let it go and you take it maybe someone else who tried even harder get it, in the neighborhood I come from you get more chances of dying of a "missing bullet" than moving up on life
While all the junkies and murderers rich/upper midle class kids will pay money, go to therapy and live comfortably, well maybe a small percentage will end up in psiquiatric houses or end their life
If we bring it for these types of stories the "Cinderella" (Rastha in this case) got lucky she was in the right place at the right time, she got a chance, "leave slavery with this charming man who wants to form a family with me" she took it, for her inate social ability and trying hard to please she got good attention from nobles, she tried to be friends with the highest ranking lady someone she thought would be her family, in her mind someone who would be a official mother to her children, remember she doesn't know anything about nobility all she heard is that they are forced to Mary and often have mistress, for her it was normal, and she failed for lack of knowledge, had her being a noble lady or someone who received a formal education as any other mistress she would know to stay out of the queen and her followers eye, but she didn't as well as she didn't know anything about finances, nobility or how to be a mistress or a paper queen and she didn't had how to learn cuz SHE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO FUCKING READ and that's why she fall this is what people are criticizing even if she had been a pure and innocent quiet girl who didn't do anything she would still fall anyway cuz sovieshu is infertile, and duke ergy was there to set her up, she could have a better end once she already had noble parents and could have appealed to sympathy to get her way? Probably but not because she tried har but because she was given a certain status and power
In the other hand a noble lady in her place would know exactly what to do, how to do to not suffer backlash and would have the support to fight back and even if she losed in the end she would still live comfortably

NO ONE no one chooses to lead a shitty life. Poor people most often work multiple labour-intensive jobs. Poverty is generational and not just something that you can get out of by simply setting your mind to it and "working hard", poor people are already working hard and they are exhausted. Grandparents, parents, and kids so they give up. To say that someone in these kinds of circumstances just "chose" to live an unhappy poverty-ridden life is extremely obtuse.
Also, it's kinda redundant to compare our current social structures to those of a story with an European-inspired aristocracy setting. It's a weird comparison to be like "Well in our modern times there are poor people that "choose" to be bums so this slave character here who doesn't know the etiquette of the high aristocracy of this fantasy world, can't read and was just picked up by the emperor to be his baby machine is also choosing to be a bum and that's why the story isn't classist"
I'm not excusing Rashta's actions or thinking that the harmful acts someone commits shouldn't have consequences simply because they are poor.
I think the story is classist because the narrative seems to be treating Rashta like a clown for things this character has no control over. You don't choose to be a slave (literally you don't get a say) so for the story to constantly be like ''look at her she doesn't know how to read what an idiot"," oh she doesn't know how to properly address this aristocracy she's so embarrasing" etc etc is weird. All the things that are supposed to make us readers laugh at her for being an idiot are a direct result of her being a former slave and that's just as tone-deaf as you saying that poor people are using the awful circumstances they were born into as excuses to be lazy and stay poor.

You’re right. I tried to make a quick catch-all reply on a subject that requires more in-depth discussion. You’re reply is spot on and I appreciate the time you took to delve deeper.

I never felt the story made her a clown quite the opposite to me the story is always painting her as pathetic, as any person who went straight out of extreme poverty (poverty of human rights like food, clothing, education, health etc) to a high class life, where every little habit, rule, what they wear, how they speak etc is made to "differentiate" themselves as superior, as "noble"
To me this is just another prove this was all a well trough subversion of the genre, even to the detail of the "Cinderella dress" full of sparkle and jewelry, cuz first who chose this dress? Why? In a normal Cinderella story taking in consideration MC would not know the dress etiquette nor the "meaning" everything she would chose for her big day would be a quimera aberration in the eyes of the ones who spend their lives studying what each gem in a jewel means, if someone else chose it obviously this would just highlight how she is just useless to beginning until the end, and most importantly the "pure and fresh" image that "moved" both nobility and commoners doesn't fit into a elaborate dress, authors usually make their Cinderella or a pushover who just go with the flow or a hypocrite saint complaing in their heads how nobility is so vain for a hot shower (hence the famous bathtub scene of the "beast" being turned into human) in both cases they will likely let others decide everything or author will make the world bend to the MC who will be a fashion icon for her "fresh take" on fashion.....like noble people would find beautiful the clothing associated with dirty slaves, or even the famous flowy white dresses.....like this wasn't a trend between nobility in real life exactly cuz it was super elitist and impossible to a commoner but more importantly a commoner interested in clothing wouldn't be different of rastha or any new money or even "ghetto girl" they eyes will shine wearing what they could never had before, they want the jewelry they want the "brand logo"(in real life) they want the princess dress who got out of bridal fashion years ago and is considered super tacky for anyone into fashion, it's like so obvios exactly what author is doing cuz he uses real life "situations" new money are aways the rude ones, they show-off, they are always thinking they earned it and they are better, they don't want to be humble, and the old rich HATE them for it, they will make fun and think they are ridiculous but the truth is aways that it bothers them seeing all their "culture" being shaken and used by these nobody once these nobody doesn't follow their rules and lick their feet anymore
The poor people will aspire to be like the Cinderella will support Cinderella, and think she is going to be there for them cuz "she knows what they went through" but they don't even know Cinderella and chances are Cinderella is a bitch
And new money are just exploiting the workers, that's how they get there

To me the story is elitist cuz it gives of the "poor people will always lose and make a fool of themselves" it would be perfect if the riot ended up in a democracy or a over trown but the fact it all still ends in the hands of nobles was kinda meh to me, realistic nevertheless and I know there was commoners characters who were of importance and all but as the story focuses on navier and she is a queen it really feels kinda empty on that side, even more cuz we find out it was all ploted by nobles and in the end nobles move the world by themselves

This is why I was holding out for Rashta to be so much more than she ended up being. Her greed for power could've been so well-justified, but nah, bc she's the bad guy she needs to be nothing but a conceited bitch. When the mc in these kinda shoujo stories needs cash and influence there's always an excuse for it, but when the bad guys want the same things it's a vain and selfish thing to do, and any potential depth on that part goes flying out the window.

It’s refreshing to see this take. I remember how uncomfortable this manga made me back in the day but everyone loved it. It’s meant to be a comedy but theres something sinister about it. The way his sex is changed and he’s bullied and pressured into accepting it.

I mean he's not rlly mean to the FL, and yes this trope will never die out as long as manga and anime exists.