Everyone keeps complaining about the ending say stuff like " he only went back to the uke cause he couldn't have children" but that is just wrong... Did I see a different manga?
1. The girl broke up with him cause he couldn't have kids, but just cause that girl broke it off didn't mean he had to date a guy. I'm sure there are plenty of girls that don't want kids that he could have dated if he wanted to and we must also keep in mind that he was only dating her to please his parents.
2. The seme came out to his parents. Most BLs do not feature people coming out to there family's and many even hiding there relationship. And the ones that show people coming out depicts the family's unrealistically. His coming out shows how seriously he takes his relationship now and I truly appreciate that.
3. He father found a cure and told him about it. He new about the cure and could have gotten married if he wanted too but instead CHOSE the uke so he didn't just sleep with the uke for convenience in the end but CHOSE him out of LOVE.
I hope this jogs your memory and proves his love(づ￣ ³￣)づ like if you agree
so we're only allowed to shower praise on manga we read? ok.gif.
and yeah obviously he could've ended up with a girl if he wanted but the story definitely makes ME feel like his gay relationship was a fallback plan. speaking as a man who likes men, i would never want to be a consolation prize or substitute for a guy who presented as straight. we can pat the author on the back for depicting a nice coming out without trying to muzzle criticisms. you're welcome to think my viewpoint is invalid, but LGBT representation is important and it's kinda rude to be dismissive of such opinions.
i've noticed that criticisms of a manga, no matter how valid, are always met with a downpouring of thumbs down... unless the criticism is about the ~correct seme-uke ordering or the lack of sex in the story. BL fangirls sure have their priorities straight~~~~~
haha. dude, the thing is, you gotta know history first. Yaoi has never been intended for men/gay men. Their target market is women. I am a straight woman and I like reading yaoi because of the hot guys in it. But you if you can't see LGBT representation in there, then I am not surprised. Coz, it's really not supposed to be there. You forget to think that Japanese mangaka have different way of thinking than American comic book writers. If you dont like it that yaoi is for women, then Im sorry, it sucks for you. I kinda think yaoi storylines have totally improved now, compared to stories from 10 years ago. Most of the stories were simply "chick-wth-a-dick" themed...
I agree with both of you, as you both make valid points.
To me the problem is, that the crucial time of choice comes a bit early in their relationship, before they themselves are quite sure of their own and each others emotions. Not enough to the kind of sacrifices both might have to make. Not to speak of disappointing Sudou's family. But it is definitely something of a cop-out, to resolve the issue through infertility probs. In the end Sudou looks passive, and like he went with the flow of events instead of making an active choice till the very end.
I have definitely also noticed this trend to be intolerant towards anything the least bit critical of a manga someone likes. Don't really get that, as there are many mangas I love, but I will be the first to admit that they have their flaws, and see no issue in having a discussion them. I wouldn't want to bother if I didn't care about the manga. And before someone says that you can only be a bit critical if you think you can do better (you only have to read a few posts to know that they do)- c'mon please!!
yaoi is for women but that doesn't mean it should promote toxic relationships or dubious social attitudes? it's not like women are better represented in these manga - they're almost always faceless characters that only get in the way of gay love. i think it's pretty depressing that women hate other women enough to view them only as sexual rivals and witches.
yaoi may be better about social issues than it was 10 years ago but that's not saying much. and i have no problem with yaoi being women-oriented, because i'm not a misogynistic asshole. but just because yaoi is supposedly women-oriented doesn't shield it from criticism.
yeah i'm not hugely bothered by this story actually. i just don't like how this parent comment is titled STOP COMPLAINING, as though any complaints about this comic are invalid. sexuality can be confusing and obviously i understand how scary it is to come out for sudou or anyone else. but i think people saying that this relationship is not very romantic have a point because ultimately it appears as he prioritized other things over love.
I agree with you. I also felt that Maki was just a fallback plan. If he really loved him he would not have let him go that easily. I really felt for maki. Who says gay men can't read yaoi, that is just bullshit. Yoai is there for everyone to enjoy no matter which gender the reader is. As long as you enjoy Yoai that is all that matters. (づ￣ ³￣)づ
This is annoying.... LGBT is LGBT. Yaoi is Yaoi. The end. Stop comparing kids.
lmao yikes. and yaoi fangirls wonder why most people hate them.
I don't really care about this discussion, but no ones said gay men can't read yaoi. Reading comprehension problem?
The other user just stated the truth; yaoi is targeted for female, and she/he didn't said gay men can't read it, of course they can. Just like, shounen manga, shounen (it's actually a demographic not genre) manga is targeted for male teenagers, but many female read it.
Gay be gay guy be guy girl be girl woman be woman. There's nothing wrong unless seen and opinion otherwise. You are not limited or label because of what, who u r, u r u as long as people in this world. So stop comparing and complaining of such... It's irritating and annoying.
Yup....
Dude I am a bi, and I am a full Fujoshi!
um lmao except no one has conflated the two concepts except for you. i mean go ahead and read your fetishistic manga, it's cool. but gay people are allowed to comment on how they view the comic considering the story is, y'know, ABOUT GAY PEOPLE.
cool story sis! i'm bi too and i've already said i don't have a problem with straights or women co-opting gay couples for their purposes. it's when they say shit like gay or bi men can't criticize a comic that riles me up. but ~u do u~
Wow, so defensive.... I think u got a whole idea tooooooooo into ur mind and ur sensitivity. I'm not saying u can't but at this moment I am saying this even if u already know, I am rude to say that ur bullshitting the fact that u personally can't get ur head around this topic and opinion and go deep into ur personal and be sensitive because what? Ur Gay? Dude I am a BI. So what? We are both the same in the end, if we strip down this label and identity in which we develop we are nothing more than people. So I want to ask y u r taking it too far. Please think about it before responding me to it. I will also dog he same. There's no black and white only... In the middle which no one see is the middle grey where I stand.
i legit have no idea how anything you said relates to anything i said, but lol k.
Sorry I am the one who is actually mirroring self.... Sorry I thought it out on ya
I wanna die!
Why did I do that? TT TT I've done it. I apologies deeply (Kanye west) I am sorry. I am not in my right mind. I am sorry. I've learnt my lesson to shut my mouth
lol i didn't press the "annoying" button on you, just fyi.
and i'm too tired to argue tbh. And I don't want to shame people for whatever kinks they have even if they're fetishistic. I just want people to be able to handle criticism of a manga they like even if they disagree with it. Otherwise you have an echo chamber.
No worries though.
It's not kink and it's not fetishistic. You're one heavy labeler here. It' s just Yaoi, it's just good and it may serve different purposes than representing your ideas of a perfect gay identity. So if you're tired of discussing it as soon as someone talks back to you, don't start a discussion at all. Because like this it is none.
except i engaged the person i replied to in a back-and-forth, until she started talking about things that had nothing to do with my original point. she acknowledged this herself. nor did i say anything about this particular manga being kinky and/or fetishistic - i'm talking about yaoi in general, which does contain a lot of gay fetishism and kink. if you wanna debate this you're welcome to do so.
Hi I wrote the parent comment. I didn't mean to offend anyone and l will not aplogize for the comment but I will say that I'm sad that people have made it a LGBT issue. I did not reply to someone else's comment but made my own to vent my frustrations. I'm not going to state my gender or argue sexuality I just thought in MY PERSONAL OPINION that the seme loved the uke... Yes there where circumstances and complications in there relationship but that's just how the story went and I appreciate the author for creating a story with interest and flavor. Sure it could have used an extra chapter to deepen there relationship and hopefully there is. But don't misunderstand and think that I was using my comment to attack anyone or was being overly sensitive, I was using my free speech to evoke how I felt about what I saw as anyone should... And thank you for reading my option even if you don't agree (cause it's really long) ╮(￣▽￣)╭
I didn't mean the manga either. I mean Yaoi- fandom in general. You just called it that. Why? Cause some yaoilovers are pretty emotional? I call that generalization.
And I really read your first comment above there as a very personal stated opinion about how same-sex-relationships between men should be represented. And just like someone else mentioned, that's not the point of Yaoi at all. So your critic may be right and all in general reality but general reality is clearly not, what these manga are about. I mean no one goes to little girls telling them their beautiful pink furry winged unicorn toys should be black or brown without any wings at all just to fit reality more. Or do you actually do that?I really wonder now :)
"Yaoi has never been intended for men/gay men." I just comprehended is how I read it. Did not mean any harm in what I said. Moenie op jou voken hoog perdjie klim nie.
I personally am fine with people stating their opinion, even if I disagree. Sadly, it seems like people are all too happy to argue over something I'm beginning to suspect is a miscommunication piled on top of side issue.:)
a few points:
1) comparing gays to unicorn toys is a completely false equivalency, and i think you know that. i mean... we are real people, not some abstract concept or fairytale. stereotypes about minorities that are perpetuated through media can be harmful at worst and annoying at best. i've met many fruit flies who only want to be acquainted with me because of their misconception about what gay people are supposed to look and act like, and who expect me to fit some kind of norm because of the gay love novels and BL they read. so even if you say "general reality" is not what BL manga is about, a lot of people DO take it at face value.
2) uhhhh yaoi fandom IS fetishizing. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fetish yaoi fans co-opt gay characters and gay intercourse for their own sexual pleasure - that's pretty much the textbook definition of fetishizing. which is FINE, but let's not pretend that's not true.
3) of course it's a personal opinion and i do not claim to be a spokesperson for all LGBT people. nor do i object to yaoi being women-oriented, that's fine, and i get that yaoi is a fantasy for many people. but i think the people who are being fetishized in a medium should be allowed to express their opinions about how they're being portrayed, even if they're not the target audience for that medium.
Thank you for your sincere reply even if we did not see eye to eye I'm happy someone is understanding of this predicament. I am thinking about "muting" this comment thread or even deleting it to keep the peace. I didn't foresee this happening (wrote the OG comment at like 3 am) and it leaves me very troubled... We are all Yaoi lovers and I don't like long conflict... Thanks ╥﹏╥
Well, "Yaoi has never been intended for men/gay men." ≠ "gay men can't read yaoi"
:^)
True. I read wrong when I wrote that.
Ignore the last sentence which is not in English. It was meant somewhere else, did not see It was in the message.
Yeah I did it to myself...
People you need to understand that Japanese culture is different than our own. They dont even take rape seriously unless it was violent and you ended up hurt in other places other than your
vagina. Most yaoi consist of girlish men with handsome men that fight over who is the uke and dont ever switch positionsand most ukes have to be susubmissive. So over there this manga is well received. He came out to his parents, found out he couldn't have children then his father found a cure but he still went back to his uke. Some one commented that yaoi is yaoi and LGBT is LGBT and they are 100% right. I personally didn't like the manga but i dont really expect much of yaoi to keep with my own views nevertheless i do greatly enjoy a lot of yaoi.
Amen!!
Calm down
I m not straight either. And all i can say yaoi isn't represent any lgbt in it. Most yaoi or yuri ARE NOT represent lgbtq. It's not like we are supporting dubious attitude or toxic relationship by praising this manga. We read it because it's fiction and it's for fun. Example : rape theme are the still favorite. But that doesn't mean these fans want to rape people or support rapist. What I don't support is btw underage people reading yaoi. So they can misinterpreted the meaning of fiction. And use it as guide lol. End of word, don't take it seriously :)
Nah, I'm not comparing gay people to unicorns. I'm comparing unicornes to yaoi-manga. Both are just a work of fiction. And if anything they represent a lot of female approach to the world, but I'm not really sure about that. That may be only MY impression. But I'm very sure they're not ment to represent actual males, gay or not.
I don't know, where you get your experience with all the crazy BL fangirls from though. But not everybody here is a fetishist or going crazy over some juicy pictures. Some just enjoy reading these manga. In a relatively composed way ;)
Your explanation clusters are very nice :) I'm not that kind of a structuralizing person, so I hope you can get along with my text anyway.
I don't mind the opinion, but age is just a number and mentally understanding is a different point u got to keep in touch. I started reading underage. Don't know about u but everyone grows up differently so I would keep in mind for what I am saying. Awareness is a good thing u know.
The beginning of this manga was totally like an episode of "Locked Up Abroad"... Loved it ٩(๑❛ᴗ❛๑)۶... Btw anyone know what I'm talking about? If not then google it... Vary scary real life stuff.(⊙…⊙ )
Love the different art style... Sometimes I need a bit of different to make a story interesting ٩(๑❛ᴗ❛๑)۶ and I love dark story's there so deep and thought provoking .(๑•ㅂ•)و✧ Can't wait!
I wish more authors would make Pansexual characters, I'm pan and I loved ever minute of this manga although I would be totally cool if the seme stayed in girl form. Also it's so awesome to see a tall, short haired uke, it's something we don't get to see all the time and feels like an extra treat.