—-'s Topics (147)

reading this made my day. The friendship between Seunghee and Inbeom is precious for exactly those reasons; Seunghee gets to finally act his own age around someone and have fun while doing it, too. I love Suhyeok, but because he is somewhat mature himself, their relationship tends to be more serious than playful which is why I'm glad Inbeom exists and brings out that side of Seunghee.

I couldn't have explained this any
better! They form an amazing trio. Also the author brings out so many subtle emotional dispute one can have in their daily lives. This is why I'm still reading this manhwa. The characters are well developped and it is nice to see them grow in their situations.

I couldnt have explained this any
better! They form an amazing trio. Also the author brings out so many subtle emotional dispute one can have in their daily lives. This is why I'm still reading this manhwa. The characters are well developped and it is nice to see them grow in their situations.

... idk sis maybe that’s just how the author wants to conclude inbeom’s arc by showing someone is actually there for him... i don’t think it is the author’s intention to purposely make seunghee neglectful in this particular chapter, it’s just to highlight his friendship with inbeom... i can see where you come from bcs we barely got seunghee x suhyeok interaction the past few chapters but we’re going to get more for the next ones so there’s that.

i’m not saying let’s not blame seunghee or anything but the author wrote it as such anyway, without any clear implication or intending to highlight that seunghee is a bad bf. the author is obviously not making this an issue, and it’s just how it works between both of them... they love each other but not every panel that features them both together has to portray that, i guess? maybe you’re reading too much into it? and since they’ve agreed to be honest with each other, i’m sure suhyeok would’ve mentioned his dissatisfaction over seunghee continuing to hang out with inbeom? but from now on until (spoilers) the end of the story he made no mention of having a problem with the two’s friendship, almost like he doesn’t even care abt it except maybe a few instances when he’d become pissed over inbeom teasing him with seunghee... though maybe if you still have a problem with that then you can criticize the author’s writing i guess. after all no one is perfect in their craft

i do agree that suhyeok’s getting backlash for doing nothing but being himself is too much and wrong for this fandom though. he’s a lovely character and he’s the babiest baby of them all tbh.

also food for thought: seunghee’s the one who confronted inbeom to stop stealing his clothes anymore, and suhyeok isn’t one to let himself be bullied anyway, since he can put up a fight against inbeom if he wants too (back when they fought for the remote and inbeom lost) but he’s prob too lazy to confront the guy every time bcs of how frequent his clothes keep disappearing... but idk... just putting my feedback out there

okay, i get what you mean, but just because the author seems to not be making it an issue doesn't mean that it's not an issue? in that case then a lot of crappy stuff that people do in these mangas can be overlooked, no? there's that one manga where the MC was locked in the house because his boyfriend had insecurity issues, that was made to be romantic and a show of pure love when he finally released him. would you say that because the author is not making it an issue, it's not an issue? or all the rape that goes on that's romanticized, would you say too that becaues the author seems to be equating it to love, we shouldn't point out any problems with that? (not that seunghee committed a sin but just to show that your logic is pretty easily overturned)

he did mention his dissatisfaction, it was just made to sound like petty cute jealousy. and the thing is that many people here have complained about suhyeok being shady and slutty when the author has never explicitly portrayed him as that, just that he's introverted and has several gfs, yet i don't see this argument being used that people are reading too much into suhyeok when he's just quiet.

"maybe that’s just how the author wants to conclude inbeom’s arc by showing someone is actually there for him"

okay, i get this, but if you read my topic carefully, i said that it's a small thing to add. do you think it's hard to add a few scenes of seunghee staying for a while and confiding in suhyeok? like i've posted, please go through that hypothetical scenario again. would you not find it disrespectful? if you don't, i feel that you're doing a top-down argument (deciding that you like seunghee and want to defend seunghee and then cherrypicking evidence to do so, instead of looking at the evidence that making your decision)

look, i love seunghee as much as you do. but characters are flawed for a reason, and just because i like characters, doesn't mean i won't point it out and brush it under the carpet. inbeom's my favourite character but never would i say that "ohh yeah he bullied seungtaek but he's turned over a new leaf, so let's just forget about that". i'm not saying that you are trying to defend seunghee without any thought whatsoever because you've put up some arguments, but i'd be concerned if people really didn't find anything remotely weird about seunghee's behaviour as a boyfriend.

and i also think you might be wrongly interpreting how i feel about what seunghee does. i'm not telling him to go formally apologize to his boyfriend or that seunghee is trash. i'm saying that it bugs me because readers here, maybe even you, tore apart suhyeok for the smallest things yet turn a blind eye to such transgressions when it comes to seunghee. it's this hypocrisy that bothers me.

" they love each other but not every panel that features them both together has to portray that"

i agree with you, but yeah i'd just like to make it clear that i've never asked for them to always be lovey dovey. this is what i complained about: "I’m bothered that nobody here brings up that Seunghee can be a bit insensitive of Suhyeok’s needs yet bags on Suhyeok for the littlest things. :("

i'd be concerned if anyone really doesn't think that what Seunghee did was a bit insensitive. and like I've stressed, I've never said that Seunghee is satan or he needs to be kissing Suhyeok's feet for me to be pleased. i'm just mentioning that he was and has been rather insensitive towards Suhyeok, not that I doubt that he loves Suhyeok. and it's annoying because people tear suhyeok apart for the smallest things. even you acknowledge that. case in point is your reply, people are quick to defend seunghee but would gladly rag on Suhyeok. and i'm not saying you specifically do that, i'm saying that because this is seunghee, we have instances of people defending him and few that readily call him shady or trashy.

"though maybe if you still have a problem with that then you can criticize the author’s writing i guess. after all no one is perfect in their craft"

i hope you don't take any criticism i have that you don't agree with or don't understand as equal to insulting the author. no author is perfect, but i've never suggested that this author be perfect. this is my favourite series, ya know? :)

"i can see where you come from bcs we barely got seunghee x suhyeok interaction the past few chapters but we’re going to get more for the next ones so there’s that."

again, this is not my point... i like their interactions but i'm not asking for more. but i've already explained it a lot of times in both this reply and the previous reply so i won't unnecessarily repeat it. maybe you can read my clarifications and get a clearer view of what i was saying and then reply? cuz there's nothing i can really go off on in your reply when it's in response to things you didn't raise and ofc i'm interested to know what you think!

TL;DR you misread/exaggerated many of my points, i cannot reply properly because i didn't raise those points that you are refuting. e.g. you seem to think i want more seunghee/suhyeok moments, but i never mentioned it or suggested it. (now that i think abt it, could you explain why finding seunghee to be insensitive means i want seunghee/suhyeok moments?)

i'd appreciate if you could read my clarifications and reread the original post before replying, i'm still interested in what you think!

yeah, that kind of thinking makes me think that you are the kind of person who can be very sensitive to the simplest of things. I'm not sure what kind of relationship you want in life but I will very anxious if my other half thinks like you. The reason I like their relationship very much is that it isn't that obsessive as what most common comics like to enforce to its readers. Their worlds do not strictly revolve around each other and I certainly think that it is a healthy kind of relationship.

i agree

sis look i’m not trying to attack you, i’m just posting what i think abt the situation you’ve decided to make a meta on... and it seems like you exaggerated a lot of what i’ve said too... like girl i’m not here to defend seunghee, i thought i’d share that maybe the author is not focusing on seunghee x suhyeok in the conclusion of this inbeom’s arc hence why they haven’t thought of adding a scene where seunghee decided to stay and confide with him... and maybe we just have different outlook in life so we can’t see eye to eye with this. bcs if you think that what seunghee did was crappy to begin with and the author is enabling him then who am i to stop you? i just personally thought it wasn’t actually planned deliberately by the author to make him seems neglectful towards suhyeok so if you think it is then sure? the author is at fault then for making a crappy mc to begin with who does nothing good from a - z even when he have a bf and the story is ending , if that what you think it is. just pls don’t think i’m here to refute your commentary and saying your opinion is invalid, i’m just adding my thoughts that may not be in line with yours. the readers have every right to criticize so if you think as such then go on. i just thought that maybe you’re reading too much into this but since you’re actually commenting on the author’s ignorance of issues like this then yay you go sis. i just didn’t see it that way bcs i don’t believe in having to devote my whole life for a lover and paying every second of my attention to him 24/7. i have my own life and social circles, and just bcs i didn’t stop longer than necessary for him then that doesn’t mean i love him less, and if your personal standing differ from mine then sure! we live differently! your opinion is valid as much as mine! if you feel that my ideals and the way i see this as stupid then carry on! who knows i might actually lack braincells to construe your commentary properly bcs i didn’t see that deep! i only read manhwas like this as a form of escapism so forgive me for not appreciating it in a deeper sense as most of yall. (no this is not sarcasm, i genuinely meant all this and not bcs i’m not taking you srsly)((ppl actually said i dont have a deep sense of appreciation over this author’s writing style before so maybe thats why im unable to see as deep as you))

i am offended with one thing though. i may have just made this account bcs i felt compelled to reply to you and couldn’t do it on anon but pls don’t lump me with the rest of ppl who hated on suhyeok before. you may not believe me but i’ve been on his side since the beginning and still put my hopes on him during his temporary fall out with seunghee. he’s my fav character and i would die for him, and if ppl ever suggest otherwise then they better shut their mouths :)

DUDE, YOU CALL ME SENSITIVE BUT THEN IN ANOTHER POST YOU GET OFFENDED BY ME TELLING PEOPLE TO NOT HATE ON OTHER COUPLES

Just say you're a petty kid and go, dude. You're pulling as much stuff as you can out of your ass because you have some weird worship of Seunghee (and your topics do show that), as if you're some idol fan who has to support oppa from all negativity. Have you actually ever been in a relationship? Because what you claim in this post seems like nothing you'd do when you get offended that people dare criticize your beloved oppa. Talking about healthy relationships when you're the type who sees in black and white and would probably rave at your partner for not being lovey dovey towards you 100% of the time

Since we're making up shit, let me do a more educated guess: you're a 7 year old fujoshi that projects herself onto the relatable "uke" and reads yaoi/shounen ai because gay relationships are sOOO SEXY sINCE thEY ArE wRooOng. That's why you get offended when people remotely criticize the "uke", because that's you in your weird gay-fetishizing fantasies. Weirdo.

hey hey, i'm not trying to hurt your feelings and neither did i feel attacked, it's weird to be upset over some online discussion, you know? i'm a curt person so i hope your feelings weren't hurt, i feel bad if they were. it's okay to refute my points, that's why you replied and that's why i'm interested. it's a discussion about manhwa so feel free to say your opinion and tell me why you disagree. it's just that you misconstrued some of my points so halfway i realized i just couldn't reply properly even though i was trying to engage you. and i type a lot because i'm excited since this is my favourite manhwa, so i can go overboard just typing whatever comes to mind with no filter, making it sound rude at times.

i know i come off as nitpicking. i agree, actually seunghee's behaviour doesn't bother me. i genuinely do not care about him walking off without caring about suhyeok (i mean, it is seunghee LOL) but i get why you mistook that i seemed upset he wasn't lovey dovey with suhyeok.

i'll explain why i brough it up. i'm pointing this out only because the readers are hypocritical and it annoys me. i've never cared or been angry about seunghee being hostile towards suhyeok or anyone because that is his character, it's a fault but i don't expect anyone in the story to be perfect, it's what makes the story interesting. just check my topics. i remember a few where i was cooing over seunghee being an angry birb. people like inbeom/seungtaek/kyubin/seunghee/suhyeok are flawed and i enjoy reading about them bcs the author does a good job in realistically portraying them.

i *only* bring up their flaws because the readers can be stupid and are often very biased in seeing some characters. that makes me annoyed, i can't lie about that. it's silly but it makes me annoyed that some characters aren't appreciated because people don't read or bother enough, so they end up just bagging on them so ridiculously.

e.g. they forgive inbeom for sexually harrassing seungtaek because he's nice now but they bag on seungtaek for hitting him unconscious, completely ignoring that he's a victim. they also hate kyutaek because they came in expecting that seunghee will be loved by kyutaek, which is so stupid since they carry their irrational hatred all the way up till now. how can authors experiment if readers are so against any structure unlike the usual SHOW ME EVERYTHING AT THE START? and it's more so annoying that they keep bagging on suhyeok for every little thing because of their bias to seunghee.

and worse, what people (like that nathaniel delulu) think that just because i point out the bias towards seunghee, it means that seunghee is a bad person/i hate seunghee. no, readers are the ones who have this bias, why would it be seunghee's fault? (and he's a fictional character?!)

i hope it's clearer now. one clear example is that i love inbeom, but i always went around telling people that he was a piece of shit to seungtaek. just because seungtaek didn't control his strength in self-defense and inbeom is pitiful, it negates nothing about what he did. seunghee is driven, independent, and i love how hypocritical he can get with being annoyed by his peers' "immaturity" but expressing that immaturity with inbeom (e.g. annoyed that friends drew on seungtaek's cast but doing the exact same). it's how he was shaped due to his experiences. it shows that he has a front that's crumbling with his first true friendship, with inbeom. deep down, seunghee who fancies older men desires to be like his peers, but because he fears rejection from peers, he puts them down instead.

also i don't think the author did it on purpose. i agree with you. she did it half because of fanservice and half because she's rushing to finish the series, since i follow the korean version and the korean fandom. it's not as cute if suhyeok doesn't get jealous from seunghee ignoring him, and how will sexy time arise if not from some hot "jealousy" premise, you know? ;)

so yeah, TL;DR I'm not bothered about Seunghee being insensitive, it's his character. Yeah he can do better and it'd be nice if he did, but it's a minor thing. I brought this up because readers are hypocritical and it annoys me.

Oh please don't put words into my mouth. I was not offended because you presumably said in a post that people should not hate on other couples. If you understood what I said, you'd understand that I was offended because you wanted to enforce the idea that it is not right to like on a couple more than the other which by the way you were quite insulting to begin with.
And you call me a petty kid when you are the one being petty and childish here. If you want proof of that, just read your post here again. As I clearly mentioned in my initial response to you, your post worries me because it feels you are being too sensitive over a trivial subject. And yes, I do like Seunghee's character but that's what you are supposed to do regarding a fiction. Why read something if you're not going to be invested in the character/s or the plot? I like to imagine that the world that I read is real so that I can become more involved with the story. I shouldn't be saying this considering the fact you are ultimately doing the same thing. I find it sad that you'd attack me with this idolization of a character when this is something integral in the world of fiction. I would have been fine if you instead talked to me more about the flaws in Seunghee's character rather than belittle me. See how mature you are there? Very mature. For the record, what I claimed in my initial response is truly something I would feel in reality. I will stand with what I said. There is nothing more worrisome for a partner who gets worried over small details like you do.
Finally, your conclusion is the most childish insult I've ever heard in my life. You literally made some things about me just to boost your superiority complex. I don't even know what fujoshi means which makes it more laughable. Since you don't know a thing about me, let me share some things about myself. Whether you believe it or not is up to you although I'm quite certain you wouldn't care because that might be the type of person you are. A sensitive and childish person who cannot handle other's people view. I admit that I tend to get very emotional when it comes to characters that I dearly love. But that's what makes reading fun and amazing. While I hold the flag for these characters, I don't know what you do except for the fact that you like to complain that people shouldn't be telling others what they think.

"A sensitive and childish person who cannot handle other's people view"

This is a really apt descripting of yourself. Is that why you got mad at me for somehow taking away your rights to rant that the other couple is worse, nathaniel? I really cannot imagine a person getting mad at someone for telling others not to be rude. Come on, just admire that you're petty already because SEUNGHEE IS GOD SEUNGHEE HAS NO FLAWS. Seunghee has flaws and that's what makes him a great character, dumbass. stop being a rude kid and let people enjoy what they want. and stop contradicting yourself too.

What is wrong with that exactly? They announce who they like more. Whether it is objectively right or wrong shouldn't matter, at the moment, because that is how they feel. They have every right to share their opinion as you have every right to criticize theirs. I am tired of people like who thinks their words are gospel. Rather than expect people to follow what you want, why don't you do what you preach. Be quiet and enjoy the things you like. We should be the one saying how-self absorbed are you? If there is something you don't like or you don't agree with, go ahead and feel free to start an argument. However, don't ever think that your words are law. Besides, I'm quite certain that you have an ulterior motive for posting this ridiculous complaint considering your other post.

Bro... ulterior motive? It's a manhwa, how old are you to legitimately think people would have ulterior motives about telling people to stop? The truth is simple: you're offended because you're exactly the type of person I described. All I said was to stop comparing the couples when you know it does nothing and just makes people annoyed. Yet you yap your head off as if I wrote it in the bible and demanded God to make you stop.

Are you the sort that like to pit the couples against one another because you have some warped delusion that fans of the manhwa are split into two "factions" like you're in some EXO vs BTS fanwar on Twitter? That's why you're so offended, because you're one of those children that probably likes to hate on certain things and then yell "BUT I HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO SO!!!!". Look, I'll make it easy for you to understand: what you're doing isn't a sin but it's an asshole thing to do. You can be rude and continue stomping around angrily but what does it do for you, kid?

And boy, you sure are dense. You get mad at me saying that we should all be quiet and enjoy what I like, yet you say that I should be quiet and enjoy what I like? Did you think before writing this post or are you that brainless?

Look, if you're offended because you act like a petty child, maybe don't get mad at me for pointing it out and try to change your behaviour?

Oh okay, now I remember. You're that Seunghee fan. It's sad that once you like a character, you believe you have to worship their every move and defend them from any sort of criticism. It must be suffocating to have you as a fan, I hope you're not a fan of idols, else you'd excuse them from every mistake they make. Dear god, I have the feeling you're one of those oppalogists who pretends gender discrimination doesn't exist against women idols.

Look, kid... People can generally like things and also point out things that are wrong or that they don't particularly like. Do you have friends who do things who are annoying, or toxic? You don't have to love every aspect of them, okay? Things are not black and white in life and aren't easily categorised into GUD and BAD. Carry that life lesson with you.

Also, you seem to think that I'm against Seunghee or maybe the second couple, but if you stopped being so irrationally offended for a few seconds, you'd notice my post points out KyuTaek fans also. But that doesn't fit into your narrative, does it? Because it's easier to go HOW DARE THEY SAY THAT ABOUT MA FANDOM!!!! HE MUST BE BAD KYUTAEK FAN ATTACKIN MA SHHHHIIIIPPPPP!!! IM SO ANGERY

I have no idea how you went to include the topic revolving around gender discrimination. That tells me again that you have a weird view of things. As I mentioned in my other post, I admit that I like Seunghee as a character which is why I can be emotional when I see posts that demean his character. When I read, I like to be immersed. That's the gist of it. Besides, what is wrong with defending his character from criticism, exactly? Shouldn't you be open to it? That is literally what they do in class which I'm going to assume you went to despite the fact that you present yourself in an obnoxious way. Again, as a reality check, I don't tend to idolize real people. They bore me which is probably another reason why I get so invested in fictional characters so you don't have to worry about me suffocating someone.
Look, immature person... if you are going to criticize something, make sure that you criticize the idea that is being presented. Don't criticize the fact that people do certain things which they are free to do. And please, don't lift up yourself now when in your very own post, you suggested the idea that people shouldn't do things which is most likely why you didn't include that thought in your response. You know you are in the wrong here. How about you carry that life lesson with you instead?
Finally, stop writing things that I wouldn't write or think about. You're the only one here who keeps degrading himself/herself whenever you do that. Just to reiterate my thoughts, I am not offended because you have an ulterior motive that I'd like to think you have (whether that is true or not is on me); I am offended because of what you said in your post.

Nah, you're offended because you think I have some kind of ulterior motive. IDK what that is but apparently you were offended enough to accuse me of having that, when we are just have a dicussion on MANHWAS. What, do you think I'm about to hatch a nuclear plot or something, kid?

"I admit that I like Seunghee as a character which is why I can be emotional when I see posts that demean his character. When I read, I like to be immersed"

No, that shows that you are pretty much the kind of person that thinks in black and white. No one is allowed to criticse your character. You are the kind of shallow reader that thinks that a good character is one with no flaws.

And stop contradicting yourself, oh my god. It's so brainless I'm getting a migraine from wondering how stupid you can be to not even notice it. You get mad at me for suggesting that people do things, and then say "stop writing things that I wouldn't write or think about". Also, you get mad that I criticise your character, but say that I should take it in good stride that you criticise me for whatever.

And worse, your criticism makes absolutely no sense! It's just you babbling and getting mad over something stupid while completely avoiding the point. Only a baby like you would actually get mad that I suggested we stop comparing the couples and making people upset in the comments. But of course, you're young and clearly, you don't have much of a brain if I keep explaining this to you and you fail to get it.

I'll make it simple: Bad to compare and make people unnecessarily angry. Be nice. OK> Did Mommy teach you how to be polite? If she didn't have the time to teach you, well, I understand why you're so mad about me somehow taking away your rights to be a brat. If you need lessons on manners your Mommy didn't teach you, ask your Daddy or something.

Oh well, talking to you is like talking to a goat. You're the one avoiding the very issue you presented. I literally stated in my initial response that I think you are wrong to tell people what to do and what not to do. Me theorizing that something else is behind is the scene is more or less an afterthought. Regardless of whether that theory is right or nor is irrelevant. My main point stands. Don't worry, I certainly don't think you have a nuclear plot or something similar. You wouldn't be that smart to come up with something as complex as that. Furthermore, comparing things isn't unnecessarily bad. You keep telling me that I see things as black and white yet you are the one that falls in this deluded state. And please, don't start saying things to be polite. You weren't polite in your post either, you hypocrite. You are so deluded that you can't acknowledge the fact that you are just a mean person. My mother taught me to always place my feet on someone's else's shoes before I speak. Your parents might have taught the same to you but you probably forgot or ignored it. I couldn't for the life of me try to insult someone's parents like you can so easily. You think I'm the bad guy here? Try reading your responses again. You may think you sound smart by talking like a crass individual but it only shows your degenerate side. Before telling others to mind their manners, how about minding yours? You can keep telling yourself that I'm the one acting like a kid here but you will never change the fact that you are just a petulant child regardless of your actual age. Let's not talk to each other anymore since it is not going to bear any good fruit. Enjoy what you like to enjoy because that's what I've been promoting since the beginning. Despite the fact that you are crass, childish, and presumptuous, you have every right to think what you think. I was expecting a somewhat decent discussion but you felt the need to insult someone you don't even know personally. That, my dear friend, is the level that you are in.

A long long response that still doesn’t answer the points I brought up. Wouldn’t it be easier to just admit that you were offended, you started spouting contradictions in your weird fury over “HOW DARE SOMEONE INSULT MY FAVE CHARACTER HE IS GOD” and then when I pointed them out, you refused to answer and just went on some dumb rant to hide this obvious fact: you can’t take criticism?

LMFAO there’s so much shit in this comment I really feel like ignoring it because it makes my brain hurt at how stupid you are. I’m mean? You’re the one stomping your feet, screaming like a 3-year-old that got told off by his mother that he should stop raining on people’s parade. You’re brainless, that’s the conclusion I’ve gotten. You get mad that people tell you not to ruin the experience for others, pretty much like a neckbeard who thinks it’s edgy to be rude because your mother neglected you. Then you act like a child and project everything that is you on me. Your parents really did a bad job with you, is everything okay at home? How self-contradictory can you be? You’ve one of the lowest intelligence i’ve seen.

A list of shitty things Inbeom has done that I acknowledge even though he's my favourite character (and everyone should too):
- Continuously mocked and harrassed Seungtaek
- Terrorised other children too
- Ordered Kyubin around because he "saved" his life by asking Kyubin to miss the family outing (that led to the car accident), even though Kyubin was going through a hard time as his whole family died
- Beat Seungtaek with a helmet till he passed out
- Sexually abused Seungtaek by kissing him while he was unconscious (idk why people keep glossing over this when you'd be livid if this happened in real life)
- Beat up his FRIEND, Kyubin, for being close to Seungtaek
- Stole someone's phone to blackmail him into bringing Seungtaek to him
- Beat Seungtaek with a helmet till his ear bled and he was on his knees
- Sexually abused Seungtaek a second time by forcefully kissing him
- Stole Suhyeok's money and uniform + other things

Let's go through a scenario. A boy hits you with a helmet till you're bleeding from the ear and you're on your knees. Your head hurts like crazy. He's taunting you, and then he tells you that he sexually abused you the last time he hit you and you passed out. He says he would have done more (maybe undress and assault you) if some guy hadn't intefered.

You snap and beat him till he's unconscious. Instead of acknowledging what the boy has done to you, I blame you for not controlling for strength in a hectic situation where you can barely even see straight. Yeah, so he did those things, but you didn't have to hit him THAT hard. I ask you why you didn't talk it out with him, as if it was a great option while you were on your knees and bleeding. Then I call you a bad person for hurting your attacker.

^ This is the ridiculous thing that a lot of you guys are doing in the comments. You are victim blaming Seungtaek with no regard for how you yourself would have reacted in his situation. Seungtaek has done wrongs, but nothing changes the fact that Inbeom did some horrible things to him. You can't give Inbeom a pass just because Inbeom has had a change of heart and Seungtaek seems fine. That's a big fuck you to all victims of bullying, physical and sexual abuse. You clear the slate of abusers because they had a bad childhood and are different now. Who undoes the trauma of the victims?

Thank you for this :)

╥﹏╥ thank you

BLESS U and ur comment

dunno i kinda like that senior is, cause he's older and has so much pride, that its nice to see him as an uke. ╮(￣◡￣)╭

Meh, that’s just cliched and almost giving off tsundere vibes. I don’t see legitimate delinquents being ukes often because the uke has to be more proper and innocent. But that’s my opinion. :

lol, I think its really suprising that senior is the Uke. He gives off seme vibes. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

he does, doesn't he? Personally I'm disappointed. In the raws, Xu Ze is taller than senior and I feel like the senior's personality somewhat changes too but since I can't read the raws I can't say for sure.

YES I was just about to comment on this. He's being unnecessarily cold but it's so funny to me too. "Don't speak" SEUNGHEE ahsgahs that's better than "Don't talk to me"

Now I love Seunghee more. He's brilliant

There is a difference between willing to help and being able to.

Saegye actually tried to help in his own way. He thought about helping Han as the first thing and then he checked if it was sensible and possible. Even a person more powerful than him, the criminal's brother, is powerless against the top, how could he be able to do anything?
He was burdened with a problem way bigger than an high schooler could handle, and Han probably knows too.

About the Holocaust, both the persecuted and the ones forced to persecute or witness are victims for me. About the second ones, as long as they did not do it willingly and did not find any pleasure in doing it, I don't see them as anything more than victims. It's useless and stupid to become martyrs and not change anything. I don't think it's wrong to value one's life and the loved one's as priority. We're humans, we have to make a choice sometimes.

And thinking about it, isn't Saegye position actually the one to pity.
If he does something to save one person, a close one, he could destroy the lives of so many more people. Would you be willing to send to death or to live as an outcast not only yourself but also a thousand people just to save one?
If I were to witness someone make the same choice as Saegye I wouldn't blame him. The one to blame is the system, not the person, no?

I think so, too. The fact that Saegye got into this kind of situation is atutomatically a lose for him, no matter what he does, no matter who he decides to save, he'll hurt many other people or even himself. It actually demonstrates real-life situations you can really sympathize with, because those things happen and we need to make a choice. That's why this manhwa is so thought-provoking and at the same time there's a level of difficulty to read it, since his situation reminds me of mine somehow, so it's kind of an anxiety trigger (not on topic but I think many people can agree). It really is the system to blame because, in this story, I can't seem to find "the bad one" (at least for now, but my guess is no one will be fully "bad" or "good", because, at the end, that's how people MOSTLY work.

As for the Holocaust case, you said it very well and I don't think I have anything to add.

You missed the point since you sort of went in a circle... I'm pointing out that some people may have one answer for a certain situation but when another similar situation comes by, they have a different answer. Not that the right answer is that Saegye is a bad person. You can read from the start again where I said that there's no easy answer.

Essentially, apologies if it comes off as offensive and it's not my meaning, but it's not about your personal opinion. If you're consistent in how you feel about the two situations, then that's good for you. But that's not the point here, no? It's that we may feel one way about a situation but feel another way about a similar situation.

E.g. Korea's current huge controversy. We may have a kneejerk reaction when we hear about staff and friends who keep quiet about the higher-ups who r*ped women, saying that they're horrifying cowards even though they may have kept quiet to protect their families, but they sympathise with Saegye here.

I'm not sure if you missed the point, but well, just in case, read this reply to the other person:

You missed the point since you sort of went in a circle... I'm pointing out that some people may have one answer for a certain situation but when another similar situation comes by, they have a different answer. Not that the right answer is that Saegye is a bad person. You can read from the start again where I said that there's no easy answer.

Essentially, apologies if it comes off as offensive and it's not my meaning, but it's not about your personal opinion. If you're consistent in how you feel about the two situations, then that's good for you. But that's not the point here, no? It's that we may feel one way about a situation but feel another way about a similar situation.

E.g. Korea's current huge controversy. We may have a kneejerk reaction when we hear about staff and friends who keep quiet about the higher-ups who r*ped women, saying that they're horrifying cowards even though they may have kept quiet to protect their families, but they sympathise with Saegye here.

Well, that's mostly what I said. There are too many factors to situations as a whole to be able to have the same answer every time in a similar situation, but I still stand by what I said in the last response. For example, in the case of this manga, there (yet, maybe) is no clear answer as to who is the "bad" person and there likely will no one, because that's human nature, but in the case of Holocaust, you can clearly point out the bad one. But that happens very rarely in real life. I don't think Saegye is a bad person, but I also don't think Han is a bad person. They have their own dilemmas and motives, but ultimately, not matter what they do, it's always a lose for someone who hasn't done anything wrong. Same for the controversy about raping women, no matter what people who know about it do, it's either a lose situation for them or the women. The problem is, depending on the situation, it's going to be worse either for the victims, or themselves, so it's not always about the morale.

It's not rather that I disagree with you or missed the point, I just added another perspective to such situations, which shows how complex human thinking process is and there's rarely a clear answer.

I know. That's what I said in my reply: that there's rarely a clear answer.

Hm, I think you may be trivialising the Holocaust. Many of the privileged people had no choice. They would be killed and treated the same, so I'm not sure why you say that you can clearly point out the bad one.

"The problem is, depending on the situation, it's going to be worse either for the victims, or themselves, so it's not always about the morale."

This is interesting. What you seem to be suggesting is that when it comes to these kind of moral dilemmas, it's about utilitarianism: the best outcome is the outcome with the most utility. And that itself has its problems. It is easy to say, "let the person who has to suffer least suffer", but is it fair for that person?

I'll just emphasise again, because I know a lot of people skim lengthy comments: I don't have an answer, neither am I saying that you disagree, but I do think you may have skimmed so you missed sort of what I'm saying. I'm here to have a discussion, as you can see in the topic below.

Errr I don't get this reply. I mean yeah it makes sense but not in reply to what OP said? Like I got the idea that OP is saying that people may think this way about Saegye but not the same about genocides? That the change their thinking?

TBH I think it's childish to always try to find one answer. To say that it's the system's fault, ok... but the system is made up of many "person"s. Saying it's the system's fault, duh, it's obvious and the dumbest way to shirk any personal responsibility. That doesn't sovle anything.

YES, thank goodness. I was wondering if I read it confusingly that it made it sound like the questions I wrote were my opinion. Did I word it weirdly? I wasn't sure why Eva Mark 06 would reply with "There is a difference between willing to help and being able to" so I kind of assumed they didn't read properly.

Oh that's interesting. I also read about this recently, Space Shuttle Columbia that crashed. People blamed the system, others wanted particular people held responsible. It's true, now that I think about it. Sometimes we just brush it off as that the system is the problem and we have to change the system, but it can be meaningless words as nothing is really done. Not that Eva Mark 06 meant it meaninglessly.

It wasn't confusing? was straight forward to me. Don't know if you're new, but people don't bother to read here. We're discussing mangas. lots are young kids that are just horny for yaoi and get hella angry if you say anything that doesn't worship their opinion lololol. Yea that's what I hate the most. like ok it's the system's fault, not the people? well find me that damn system and dismantle it. and i oop- system's made up of p e o p l e.