ravioli's Topics (38)

He doesn’t have a choice. His loyalty to the saintess is instinct, it’s like reason to live, it’s like breathing. He’s going to join the fl’s side soon, though. At least that’s what I’m reading from some of the comments.

Rather than him having a “loyalty” towards the saintess, I’d side with the thought it isn’t loyalty but instead fear. Ahuin admitted it himself that he feels a disconnect from the so-called saintess. Every time Ahuin is going to disagree and questions the saintess actions the saintess essentially intimidates Ahuin into whatever she wants done. An example is it’s clearly seen in the recent chapters how she wants to let the scorpion loose and as he’s questioning her choices she puts fear into and intimidated him in the next panel, thus making him agree to do it. So, what’s driving him isn’t a false loyalty but instead fear that he isn’t ready to face so he avoids it by giving in.

I agree. What people who defend Ahwin appear to forget is that Ahwin has prioritized his own selfish needs over Noelle's at least a couple times already. One example is when he scolds Noelle for wanting to die because HE couldn't stand it if she died. Except he knew how much Noelle suffered because she couldn't accept Josefina as all her other wings did. Yet in almost the very next breath he talks about he might just have to kill her himself. What? So it's okay for him to kill her when she probably won't want to die but it's not okay for her to kill herself when she does?

THIS!! I 100% agree with you, especially on the fact he often prioritizes himself instead of Noelle! Ahuin is indeed selfish and easily manipulated by fear in order to protect himself while Noelle stands for what she believes is right or wrong and is willing/capable of sacrificing herself for what she believes is the right cause (seen by Noelle dying for the mc in her past life) instead of simply giving into the wrong cause like Ahuin is for the saintess for self protection. I’m really hoping either Noelle finds better than Ahuin or Ahuin improves who he is for Noelle IF he really does love her.

I feel like you aren’t trying to see where Ahuin is coming from. Ahuin is also standing up for what he believes is right, not just because of “fear.” It’s true that there definitely is this fear in him, but rather than what would happen, he’s scared about why he doubts the saintess and why he’s beginning to think differently of her. But because she’s the saintess, and he’s her wing, he continues to follow her loyally. It’s not because of his own self-protection. It’s because he lives for the saintess, and is supposed to die for the saintess. Both Noelle and Ahuin are similar in the fact that they’d both kill and do anything in general according to what they feel is right/wrong. Noelle would kill the saintess cause she’s repulsed, and Ahuin would kill Noelle because he trusts in the saintess. Noelle isn’t much different from Ahuin in the selfishness aspect, either. They’re the same. As soon as she meets Leticia she prioritizes Leticia over Ahuin, just like how Ahuin prioritizes the saintess over Noelle. Additionally, it’s not even a question on “if” he loves her. He does love Noelle, and some of the love that he expresses is through him constantly warning her. Even Noelle understands that aspect of him. He can’t just suddenly give up the saintess because of his lover. Just like how Noelle couldn’t help but try to save the female lead. She couldn’t give that up just because of her lover. Brushing all of this aside though, according to spoilers, Ahuin does became the female lead’s wing in this life. I don’t think in the past life he and the fl ever met face to face, so in this life, when he does, he becomes her wing.

Wings have loyalty that is absolute, it overrides any other feeling of love, sadness, principles, morals, absolutely everything. Both of the characters have characteristics a wing should have. Even if Ahuin disagrees with actions the saintess does, he’s still her wing and would do anything for her. Just like how Noelle just about killed the saintess for the female lead. It’s because they are both wings. And again, Ahuin becomes the FL’s wing in this life.

… I take back what I said about “when they meet face to face”, it doesn’t look like it’ll happen right away after I checked the raws.

100% !!!

the things is, Noelle sided with MC because it's the right thing to do, Ahuin is aware of the Saintess' wrongdoings and continued to side with her so don't you ever compare that man to Noelle.

I will. Even if you don’t like him, it’s true. Because they’re both wings. Ahuin can’t just “choose” to disobey the saintess. It’s his instinct to listen to her regardless of what she does. Noelle was repulsed by the saintess from the start, so it makes sense that she chooses the female lead right away. There are similarities in how they act with fl/saintess. So I will compare because there are many similar aspects in their behavior. + Because of how he’s already doubting the saintess, I bet that the saintess used some sort of black magic to make every one of the wings obey her. That wouldn’t be very surprising, and I’m sure that’s the case, because she cursed the FL, so what’s telling she didn’t use black magic on the priests.

Just like how Noelle would do absolutely anything for the FL, so will Ahuin with the saintess. Similarities are there, even if you deny them.

And I just read a spoiler about the theory I made, turns out I was right. So.

I rest my case. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

(￣∇￣") AAA I just saw all the replies under this thread, so my bad for this late response— Anyways though, I absolutely disagree on your view that Ahuin loves Noelle. Ahuin KNOWS that despite Josefina being the saintess she is FAR from a saint in any way, shape, or form. Ahuin KNOWS that some, if not all, of her actions are wrong to some degree. I know you’re aware of this since you’ve noted in your second response to me claiming his fear rather sprouts from his inability to understand why he feels conflicted with the saintess. If you’re questioning someone’s judgement and your so-called loyalty to them yet STILL choose to pick their side over all else then that’s not love, and it’s not because of an “instinct”. Ahuin doesn’t have an instinct to follow Josefina, Ahuin doesn’t have an inborn impulse nor motivation to help Josefina, he chooses it consciously which is a HUUUGEEE difference. If anything his instinct are disconnected from Josefina which is why he feels conflicted. Ahuin doesn’t have some deep wing loyalty towards the saintess. As of right now, since you’ve mentioned later Ahuin will change, any loyalty towards the saintess is simply Ahuin just choosing to follow along since he cannot properly face his conflicting feelings unlike Noelle. SOOOO much of what you’ve said I agreed with until you brought back your main thought of the root of Ahuin’s actions: loyalty. Noelle’s loyalty IS an instinct, Ahuin’s loyalty is NOT. You’ve managed to convince me that Noelle is selfish as well because before I thought she wasn’t. You’re absolutely right that Noelle is also selfish, but I very much disagree that their selfishness is the same. It’s undeniably present, but it’s not the same. It’s the very part that Noelle’s loyalty is instinct and Ahuin’s isn’t that makes their selfishness differ and not the same. For me, the part that Ahuin’s actions towards the saintess aren’t instinct but instead is his voluntary choosing shows me that he doesn’t love Noelle. You’re right that he can’t just up and leave Josefina for Noelle, but Ahuin could’ve still picked Noelle even if it were baby steps. Ahuin does not love Noelle, and it isn’t because of loyalty like you’re claiming.

Ah, also about that whole don’t compare thing earlier in the thread I think comparisons are necessary to make an argument. By your comparisons of Noelle and Ahuin I was able to realize that Noelle is selfish (though I disagree that her selfishness is the same as Ahuin). So yeah, comparison is a good thing and I’m happy to see you stood up for that (●'◡'●)ﾉ

Agreed, but to a certain extent~! I think comparison between Noelle and Ahuin was a good thing, LatteGratte’s comparison of the two showed me that Noelle is also selfish so I don’t 100% agree on Noelle siding because it’s the right thing. Instead I think Noelle sided with Leticia because of her instinct and in a way her own selfishness. I 100000% agree with you on Ahuin though!! Especially on the fact that Ahuin knows the saintess is far from a saint (as seen through her actions) yet he still consciously sides with her!

I don’t really see how you can claim he doesn’t love Noelle when it’s explicitly stated in the story that he does. It’s not something that should even be debated. To me, it just looks like you unconsciously have certain ideals of what you think is love and how people should specifically show it. Anything other than that, that’s out of your view of love, you reject as love. You may think that he doesn’t because of how you view his actions, but he does love Noelle. You may not think of it as love, and it goes against what you think a lover *should* do. But for him, it is his love. The common sense that you think of isn’t common sense for him, and how you think it should be somewhat easy for him to tiptoe slowly but surely to Noelle doesn’t isn’t easy for him. You may disapprove of how he shows his love, so much so that you say it’s not love at all, but he does love her. This is a fact that the author has put in place. Even the female lead admits it, she even says this directly to Ahuin on later chapters. (I read the raws.) His love for Noelle and how their stances differ is a device the author has put in place. It hasn’t been implied that he secretly despises Noelle. Or that he’s doing shady stuff and wants to get rid of Noelle. He is showing his love and is trying to do his best for his lover despite their differing ideals. If he held no love for her at all like you’re claiming, he wouldn’t have shed any tears when he had to kill her or try to warn Noelle the many times when she expressed murderous intent towards the saintess. And the information I had with Ahuin “choosing” the FL, wasn’t quite right. I’ve read updated spoilers, and it’s said that the saintess had everyone in the temple was brainwashed by her, so they had no choice but to follow her. (3 of the saintess’s real wings were brainwashed. Ahuin is a real wing.) That proves that Ahuin really did have no choice in his actions when following the saintess due to the brainwashing, and he was doing his best as Noelle’s lover despite the restrictions he had due to the brainwashing. (Ahuin was not aware of the brainwashing. Nobody was.)

So Ahuin doesn’t consciously side with the saintess. He is forced to.

‘Coz the brainwashing entails that the people in the temple have to obey everything the saintess says.

Yaa at first she only wanted to survive so she was good to him, but soon she really came to care for him.

I dun read this manga, but by chance I saw this on feed and dem istg you might as well stab my stomach cause dem this is a lit comment

Ahaha, his eyes did seem like they were gonna pop out any moment(￣∇￣")

ikr and they never even consider they might make things worse and have a god complex

not to mention the smell of the blood

I FORGOT ABT THAT, THAT MAKES IT EVEN WORSE