Guys, shit is way more complex than Doyeon taking advantage of the fact that Jinjoo is dependent on her. Jinjoo starts making weird demands starting from ch 8 to her to never leave her alone again. And then Doyeon kisses her mid argument annd that is FUCKED UP AND WRONG and then Jinjoo rejects that shit and then Doyeon puts distance annd respects that and then in ch 12 Jinjoo ASKS DOYEON TO SLEEP IN THE SAME BED????? WHY??????????? WHYYYYYYYYYYYY?????? Jinjoo is not a helpless teenager, she is a 40 year old woman who has had jobs before. There are women’s shelters she can look into to go there. She is devout and active in the church community, why not ask for help there?????? This 24 year old college student could not have been her only option.
First off she ask Doyeon to share the bed because her back hurt from sleeping on the couch because of how skinny she is and second she ask Doyeon to never leave her because she was alone in her own apartment for so long and being harassed almost everyday by thugs and 3rd if Doyeon was a guy you would then see and even agree that she did take advantage of Jinjoo when she stayed there,that time Doyeon Fucked Jinjoo in the kitchen she didn't even ask her and if that was man you would see how WRONG that was,the thoughts that crosses Jinjoo's mind i feel like some of y'all ignore it which is Jinjoo's true and honest feelings.
True and based
Cool.
Don’t be obtuse, the couch thing is bs and never leaving her alone again is crossing the line, she cannot ask that of Doueon, you can’t even ask that of a regular normal friend. The only answer Doyeon could have had after kissing her or even beginning to think those thoughts towards Jinjoo is to kick her out. That is the only ethical answer. Jinjoo initiated all that shit after for god knows what reason, even after Doyeon put space between them. And after Jinjoo’s dumb shit of a husband came back, the way she treated Doyeon was terrible. Once again, she is not a child. How do you justify ch 20 and Jinjoo’s vile behaviour towards Doyeon’s sister? How did she know Doyeon’s parents were rich and what position they held in society? She literally got off on the domination and making Doyeon’s sister feel disgusted and feel sick. And she used that energy to have sex with Doyeon right after. And this was before Doyeon’s sister went batshit crazy and did insane shit. I mean, lady, just go to your church and ask for help, srsly, what the frick. Or how about when she manipulated Doyeon’s guy friend by saying shit like Doyeon talks about him so much she thought on he was her bf, she said that to manipulate him into being ok with her staying with Doyeon.
Seems you're a bit slow,Jinjoo said anything to be able to stay at Doyeon's place,she was in survival mode and her sleeping with Doyeon after was her trying to make the entire situation just end already,she didn't want to discuss what happened but used sex as a distraction,she told Doyeon's sister that shit get her tp keep her mouth shut about her staying there and what would happen to her parents reputation if it got out that their other daughter fucked a 40yr old woman,are you even understanding anything in the story,are you even an adult maybe not and just like others you totally ignore Jinjoo's thoughts and focus more on her actions,have you even tried to understand how desperate Jinjoo was because of all she went through in that apartment all alone,she even said she had sex with Doyeon to get her to like her and i feel like she ment like her enough to let her stay safe at her home and to be her friend.
About Gunwoo...i could careless about him...look kid people use sex as a distraction when they feel hurt sometimes and when Jinjoo said what she said to Morae it was to hurt her feelings and breakdown her confidence,Jinjoo was affected by Morae's actions and that slap in the face from,you think that slap didn't bother her well it did and her revenge was to fuck Doyeon to make herself feel better it's why she told Doyeon to penetrate her even if it hurts,she wanted to feel pain physically because Morae's words and actions hurt her at heart.Seems you don't know much about sex and why in different situations people have sex huh.
You literally could not care less about Doyeon. You’ve said as much before. You justify everything Jinjoo does and empathize with her completely. Anything and everything she does, whether wrong or right, is justified and makes sense to you but you will not even try to give the same consideration to Doyeon. The revelation that Jinjoo wanted Doyeon to “like her” only came a couple of chapters ago and it was a big reveal, this was after the chapter where we saw that Jinjoo was indeed emotionally manipulating and hurting Doyeon by putting all of the baggage and anger she acquired from her 20 year marriage and resentment towards her husband on Doyeon. Let’s not mention the possessiveness and the controlling tendencies she has. It wasn’t that she wanted her to like her, she thought that her body was the only thing she could offer and someone enjoying her body without regards to her comfort meant that she means something to them which is fucked up and really sucks and is sad and it is what she thought. It’s more complex than her just wanting Doyeon to “like her”. It’s where her proclivity for rough sex comes from. Anyways, I get it, you want Doyeon to be a one dimensional character, you want her to be a villain, you want her entire purpose as a character to serve Jinjoo, as a protector, a sex object to rid her of her pain, a pursuer, a lover, a user, whatever Jinjoo needs. She doesn’t have a personality or a story outside of Jinjoo. Of course, Jinjoo has one outside of Doyeon but Doyeon does not. And whatever Doyeon went through isn’t valid. You don’t care about Doyeon as a character. That’s fine man, I guess. And of course, Jinjoo is a perfect victim who has never done anything wrong, and even if she did it’s ok because her trauma justifies her behaviour.
Never have i said that i dislike Doyeon i have said that she's a bitch and an asshole and here's why i said it and i know you read why from my previous comments,Doyeon should have not fucked Jinjoo,even if Doyeon started having same sex dreams and attractions she was wrong to put that onto Jinjoo,Jinjoo was in an emotional,mental and physical bad state and she felt lost and abandoned and because of that ofcourse she would go into survival mode and do and say whatever it takes to make it through another day to be safe and not alone,so okay yeah she used her body and ok yeah she might have manipulated Doyeon a bit but Doyeon still opened the door for all that,that stupid ass should have talked to Jinjoo just like Jinjoo tried to talk to her about it when she sat Doyeon down and ask her if she like women or is it that she likes her.
Jinjoo was the one who tried talking about things more than Doyeon had tried,all Doyeon ever wanted was sex not to talk but sex then got all made saying she hates the fact that sex was on her mind all the time and as she fucked Jinjoo in the kitchen she was the one who asked Jinjoo if she thought about what happened that night a lot too and ofcourse Jinjoo said yes,that woman was just doing dishes and that asshole came home and fucked her without asking permission as if Jinjoo was her woman,look fact is Jinjoo was there in that house for safety and Doyeon made the whole thing about her desires do you even get that.....geez come on now......let me break it down a bit more for you in a scenario,woman goes to the police for help because her husband abuses her and then the police says i can help you and along the process of doing so the police fucks the woman then wants her to fall in love with him just cause he helped her out so what she does is do whatever he days because he's the safer choice or so she thinks until he realises she's using him and he gets all crazy on her...sighsss Doyeon is WRONG SO DARN WRONG man she is.
I said Doyeon needs to accept that she isn't a good person as much as she always thought she is and then she can work om herself i even said that in one of my comments and yes i feel like Jinjoo needs understanding because her whole life has been shitty while Doyeon has choices,she has opportunities while Jinjoo only knows how to be a loyal wife since out of highschool,Jinjoo said she never shinned as much as Doyeon at her age which ment she didn't live the life she should have which means she has a lot of regret.
I’m not sure why Doyeon being young and really being an excellent student by working very very hard (every character has confirmed this) means that she receives less empathy from you. I’m sure she has scholarships to go to vet school because she is literally their number 1 student academically, the only thing her adoptive parents help her with is housing and groceries, which is a huge fucking help but she didn’t have that help most of her life anyway and she’s always been an excellent student and hard worker. She isn’t a cop though, why are you holding her to the same standards as a cop? Once again, the minute she caught on feelings the only ethical thing she could have done was to kick Jinjoo out. And that would have been fine. Why? Because once again, Jinjoo is a 40 year old woman and not a teenager. She had other options. She was not trapped. Doyeon, the 24 year old college student (22 actually) was not her only option. I don’t know why Doyeon having choices and opportunities ( largely because of her hard work, would her adoptive parents chosen her if she was not an excellent student?) means that she has to be the perfect saviour to Jinjoo or be subservient to her. As if she is obligated to give some of her opportunities and freedom to her because she is young and has choices. That seems resentful and sad. Once again, Jinjoo still has choices to her because she isn’t a teenage child. She is a grown ass woman. Tell me the ch where Doyeon comes home and just does weird stuff to Jinjoo because Jinjoo did that weird terrible dominating stuff to Doyeon in ch 20 but in your eyes that was justified because Jinjoo is a helpless teenager with no other place to go and she can use this 22 year old for sex and that’s ok, OH WAIT, SHE ISNT, SHE IS A 40 YEAR OLD WOMAN. WHO HAS OPTIONS.
I can see you are all about defending Doyeon,guess you're the type to defend someone if they are your friend even if they did something wrong and i used the police reference because currently it's an actual case load i'm reviewing of which the policeman will have to pay dearly for,you know what,i feel like you so want to defend Doyeon about her age and talk about Jinjoo's age that you and even others clearly forgot that Jinjoo got married straight out of highschool,you never met a girl who lived as a married woman to an older guy i bet....i'll tell you,there's a woman in a domestic case that went unreported for many years,as a young girl of 14yrs her parents married her off to a 24yr old guy which is their cultural way,in an old pic that girl was seriously beautiful but when the case was finally picked up her beauty was gone,her face had many cuts and her body bruised and battered,when questioned they way she spoke it was as if her understanding and knowledge was not equal to her age but way below,fact us all she learnt is what her husband put in her head so when you say Jinjoo is a 40yr old and has or had OPTIONS,clearly you never dealt with a person like Jinjoo's character,Doyeon's problem is that she doesn't know how to form real connections with people and expect people to love her,she thinks just cause she does things for people warrants that they love while she doesn't allow anyone to truely know her because she keeps doing what she wants in her own way them gets mad if she doesn't get her way.
I bet Jinjoo eventually will create space between herself and Doyeon and try to figure out herself and who and what she wants,Jinjoo is introverted yet tries and Doyeon is extroverted and has a temper,selfish,needy and attention seeking,what did she think A FUCK or fucking Jinjoo would make Chanyang vanish or the fact that she's married,that asshole husband maynot just walk away and give his wife to Doyeon after 20yrs so yeah Doyeon is dululu for sure.
How tf does everyone think Doyeon is on the ASPD spectrum? Someone with ASPD would never self harm to punish themselves or feel guilt and punish themselves to somehow alleviate it. I also theorise Doyeon is demisexual since she could only feel sexually attracted to someone when she could form a deep emotional bond/connection and that’s why she could get attracted to Jinjoo in the first place. She was able to relate the deep loneliness she felt since her young childhood to Jinjoo’s weeping she heard every night. She saw her own deep loneliness in Jinjoo and therefore wanted to give her the comfort and love she never had, and that enabled her to finally deeply emotionally connect enough to have sexual attraction. I don’t think people with ASPD can be demisexual like this.
I sincerely would like to understand how this narrative of Doyeon having low empathy came about because I can’t see it at all. I’m convinced ppl who think that have only focused on Jinjoo as a character, maybe the main main character, and not on Doyeon at all. It’s crazy. Nothing about Doyeon shows low empathy, superficially or otherwise. Everyone is crazily focused on Jinjoo and her plight but literally no one extends that same understanding to Doyeon. I just don’t understand why. And the reluctance to admit that Jinjoo did use Doyeon and her feelings of love and devotion, and did indeed use her for sex. Jinjoo threw so much baggage on her, baggage of her marriage, her resentment towards her husband, her wanting to be rescued and when that didn’t happen perfectly, the betrayal and subsequent emotional punishment inflicted on Doyeon, and everyone forgets this is Doyeon’s first sexual experience, first love, she is naive, she is desperate, she did not have any control and she was out of her depth with an older woman, she was self harming more due to the stress, she was put in a state of more instability, she did beg Jinjoo to not reach out to her again for sex and Jinjoo had sex with her then and there.
At the core of Doyeon’s character is deep deep loneliness and sadness and a desperation of wanting to belong and truly be needed. This results in her perfect people pleaser superficial personality which makes her seem like an NPC with no needs. But that’s on purpose and her wants and needs were stored deep down within her because her wanting anything and not being actively helpful never got her close to truly mattering to someone, something she was shown and was reinforced time and again throughout her childhood. If she doesn’t want or need anything she also won’t have to contend with being disappointed and abandoned. Again. And here she is, perfect, without any flaws, trying to be indispensable to anyone but also keeping a distance between everyone.
LITERALLY omg omg like ppl r treating doyeon like a monster pls
He can finally consume the gun devil who did what it did to beloved Aki… I mean he already erased snow and so the snow ball fight… Anyways…
How is everyone expecting more emotional maturity from the 24 year old than the 42 year old here??? Also did everyone forget ch 20, ch 59?????? How creepy, weird, and controlling Jinjoo can get? Doyeon also has her own set of trauma, real bad shit since she was a very young child, even her place rn is very unstable vis a vis her adoptive parents and sister since the adoptive parents adopted her for the sis and the sis clearly fucking hated her. The only reason she was even able to be sexually attracted to Jinjoo is because she could emotionally relate to her since she projected the deep loneliness and sadness she felt onto Jinjoo due to hearing her weep every night. She’s probably demisexual or smth. What Doyeon is doing now is literally what Jinjoo was doing before, Doyeon could only meet Jinjoo at a time and place she requested and when she was available, and a lot of the time it was for sex, and for her she had the excuse of having an affair, but it’s more shocking that Doyeon is doing this because she doesn’t have that same cover and it is more blatant, I’m not sure where everyone is getting the idea that Doyeon only wants Jinjoo for sex etc, that’s clearly not the case, she wasn’t even wet and she only got a little wet because of the normal biological response to someone physically stimulating her. Based on the idea that Doyeon thinks Jinjoo had sex with her husband (and her not clearing it up) Doyeon doesn’t think Jinjoo really cares anymore and that Jinjoo just wants sex from her so what’s the point, this probably won’t phase her anyway
Lets be clear about somethings,Jinjoo never came onto Doyeon from the beginning...it was Doyeon who forced herself and her feelings onto a woman who Doyeon clearly knew had a lot of problems and by Jinjoo's appearance anyone in their right mind would have not done what Doyeon did,Jinjoo said from the start that she has nothing to repay Doyeon with as all she has was her body and what did Doyeon do she started coming onto Jinjoo while Jinjoo clearly knows it's all she has to give to Doyeon to repay her for letting her stay and be safe so ofcourse she would give her body to Doyeon in the hopes that Doyeon would like her and allow her to stay.
Jinjoo never once told Doyeon that she would offer her heart and yet Doyeon expected that sex came so love would follow and that's where Doyeon was wrong again,Doyeon kept and keeps on thinking about her own fucking self and it's disgustingly selfish,i mean does Doyeon even really take a close look at how tired and burdened Jinjoo looks...i think not....Doyeon needs to chill and support Jinjoo by simply talking to her ask her questions,try to figure out who Jinjoo is or what she likes,what the fuck,i cannot feel bad for Doyeon because she grew up in a orphanage gives her the right to act like that,nah fam fuck NO,Jinjoo needs to leave Doyeon alone and her dumb ass husband and make a life for herself,she was a great student with alot of potential and i hope she develops a friendship with the teacher and gets her University degree and get a job and support herself and in time fall in love with someone new.
I literally don’t think this accurate man, idk
All of it is...
I love the art, I’m waiting for a good story with this artist
1) Seth tried to rape Horus, Horus then raped Seth.
2) Horus then SA’d Seth multiple times after.
3) Seth, even till this point in the story, seems to be asexual and disinterested in sex, with any gender. He might even be aromantic. Sex seems to be a means to an end, to create a family. The one kiss he gave Horus was because of an overwhelming wave of emotions, grief, sadness, relief, etc. It was not sexual. Kisses aren’t always sexual. If they do end up together in a sexual relationship, it would disregard everything we’ve seen about Seth, even before he met Horus. That would be inconsistent and would warp the story to fit an ending that I do not think fits.
4) Horus still calls Seth uncle. WHY ARE YOU CALLING YOUR SUPPOSED LOVE INTEREST UNCLE? Some real Freudian shit is going on here.
4) That's Asian language for you... or at least, that's what readers of Asian descent told us). This webtoon is Korean, so. They reasoned he began calling him the "uncle" at first because not doing it would have been disrespectful (being enemies apparently doesn't give you the green light not to address someone respectfully). It gets even more complicated when you take into account how in many Asian languages they can call even practical strangers with variations of "brother, sister, uncle, aunt, granny" merely to indicate respect, depending on the other person's age in relation to yours.
broo, all the Egyptian gods are related , just like the greeks lmaooo
Actually in the next chaps we'll see that Seth did enjoy doing the deed with his ex wife and loved her romantically too
That’s what I’m saying, 165 ch gone to garbage to change what the author has shown and portrayed till now, but why do I expect more when the author clearly has a rape kink
Why does no one call the sun god aunt or mother?
Hathor does call her "mother", though? "Sun god" is probably even more respectful than "mother", I think. Moreover, her gender's a mystery: mythical Ra had both male and female forms (and this Ra does give birth all by herself)
That what I mean, only Hathor does, why not call Seth War god then?
Well, his mother Isis was the one who raised him, and she is one of the four gods that Ra berated for "wanting to live like humans" and being "obsessed with family relationships"... According to Ra, family relationships shouldn't be THAT important to gods... (aside from the fact that, according to god Anubis, "all gods instinctly know who sired them"
Yessss, so if ya wanna get with your uncle, stop calling him uncleeee, and Horus does treat Seth as an uncle and vice versa many times
It's definitely Isis' influence: Horus said he learned of Seth's "good guy" past as defender of Egypt through his mom's tales about him, in the form of illustration's that covered Isis' entire temple. Back then, she even used to refer to Seth as "little bro", so if Horus read that stuff, it's obvious how he came to see someone he'd barely seen as his "uncle".
Hopefully, he'll become a god and stop all that. I think marital relationships probably override prior ones, since I noticed that while Seth did call Osiris "brother", he never called Nephthys "sister": it was always "my wife" (even though Nephthys WAS, also, his sister). Same with Isis and Osiris: to Isis, Osiris was always "my husband", and never her "brother". ...Weird how kid Anubis never called Osiris and Isis' his "uncle and aunt", though. So it's probably Isis' influence (she was the one who cared about that stuff).
You forget that all the gods in this time in Egypt are basically siblings and some ended up pairing with another so I don’t think being siblings or uncle and nephew applies here. Cause who are the gods supposed to be with and make more gods if not themselves right? They’re basically keeping it in the family.
Did you mistook the AU stories in 2 ? That's not a part of the main story. After Horus was under the influenced of Sekhmet, he never touched Seth with the intention of wanting to fuck him, he does take care of Seth because he actually care about Seth.
Pensar é difícil né
honestly what exactly did we see about seth that made you believe he's aromatic or disinterested in sex? what he is now is the result of the multiple sexual assault he experienced that happened to be all under men. I think those experiences imprinted the idea that sex between men is just a means to subdue the other. also, just because this manhwa hasn't depicted the sexual scenes between him and nephthys or any other character doesn't mean he's never been sexually interested to them or did it. remember, he believed that anubis is his son so from this we can say that they did it before. there's also that scene way before where he attempted assault horus but sekhmet intervened. SO there are already hints WAAY BEFORE that Seth is not completely disinclined to do sexual things.
you do you! but mind you this is based off the real gods of egypt (since you were questioning why its there) and the author is just using some of the real mythology then creating a story from those legends
i think the scariest thing about readers nowadays is how yall tend to ethic police everything. when you can be uncomfortable with a work + also not support or enjoy irl the things done in the story. its okay to find this story entertaining or interesting!! it’s very possible to criticize these things outside the story but still see it as a fictional work of art that has an origin as well. also i wouldn’t call it so much as a rape kink for writing about rape lmao? im not saying its necessary but it played a role several times throughout the story (loss of power, gaining power, betrayal, complete control and submission). and lastly these were gods who don’t have any moral compass or humanity
seth is not aromantic or disinterested did you not read the isis temple arc?
Are we reading the same manhwa? Just genuinely asking.
What do you think the kiss i reference is from?
Yeah, that’s what I mean, he thinks of sex as a means of getting a family. A means to an end. And even before Osirishit mentioned he stole Anubis’s soul he literally didn’t care about Nephthys potentially sleeping with someone else or using someone else’s sperm, he was always more worried about Anubis not being his bio child, he hasn’t really shown he cared for her more than her being his family and partner, his wife, he never seemed deeply in love with her at all. He just seemed to want companionship and family. And now he is just neutral, he doesn’t care at all. Now, if the author starts somehow going back and portraying his relationship with Nephthys differently, as some sort of retroactive change, it will be that, a retroactive change, because what we have seen of Seth, what we know for sure and what has been shown is that he always wanted a family and he was so deeply lonely because he didn’t have that. Mostly, a family with his son. Yes, he attempted to rape Horus but not to sexually satisfy himself, it was to humiliate him, even in the original myth, it is humiliation. And that is what Seth himself said, no hard feelings, this is what has to happen. Just because he has had sex before doesn’t mean he is inclined to sex or is not ace. Asexual people do have and have had sex.
What would you call a rape kink? He’s been raped so many damn times. All of that was not necessary, if the author thinks it’s necessary to portray all of that through rape then I think that’s lazy because many stories are able to portray the same things in many different with higher impact. The author has not shown even when sexual experience of Seth that is not assault or anywhere Seth has enthusiastically consented. And it’s drawn to be yaoi, those scenes. How can you not call it a rape kink? And all I said is that I don’t see them together, I’m not the morality police here, I am still here reading it, hoping that Seth gets a good ending with someone who has never sexually assaulted him and in a way that is consistent with the character we’ve seen till now
rape kink is having an actual, real life fetish to rape scenarios?? as in the play gives them sexual gratification. this generalization is not a healthy mindset to have with dark/dead dove media. think of people who write about murderers, torture, or creators of horror in general: these people don’t have kinks for it by creating works with triggering scenes. while yes any of this is considered unnecessary, you don’t have to consume it… its literally just fiction and none of these characters or stories are real nor have an affect on real people. btw im not telling you to drop this either, but im confused why you read dark media and then complain about said dark media
also idrc if u dislike seth and horus or not, that’s 100% personal preference. but you can’t just take out the context for the sa/rape as if these are humans + horus wasn’t controlled for the worst of it. while its great u think seth should have a fairy tale ending, i only called you the morality police because i saw you criticize someone for shipping seth/horus and also keep calling out the problematic content when that’s literally the entire webtoon (all of it is dead dove)
How and when is point 2 true? I only recall the 1st encounter and the unofficial fanservice that's not canon
and? did you not see what happened after that? how does that show he is asexual? I mean yeah he's been through a lot but that doesnt show he's not interested in anything romantic
Okay and, why are you still here reading this FICTION up to the latest chapter if you're going to hate? It is not the author's fault if their readers does not know how to seperate FICTION from REALITY.
Yeah I also think that what they feel for each other wasn't that deep, not as much as how Isis felt with the green bastard. But can't Seth see it as a duty to his family while also enjoy doing the deed? With how harmonious they are, it doesn't seem like Seth have rejected her before. There's just no clear indication that seth has a problem with it.
This story is clearly not for you . Go away
Jfc, relax, all I said is that I don’t want them together, them not being together is not a fairy tale ending, how could that be? You thinking that them not being together is a fairly tale ending shows you think it would would be terrible that Horus and Seth end up together. And I wasn’t criticising a Horus and Seth shipper, I was criticising how they glorified Horus’s infantilising behaviour while disregarding his total lack of boundaries and his subsequent feelings of entitlement towards Seth.
Bro all I said is that I do not want Horus and Seth together and have my reasons, how is that hate??? Why is everyone personally offended by this??????
Jfc, why has looking at things critically become hate? If I don’t fully agree with the story and I want to analyse it then I’m not allowed to read it? Only non critical opinions and analysis are allowed? How boring
Oh wait, shit, yeah I said some fairytale ending shit in my reply comment, sorry about that, in my original comment though I just don’t see them together, that’s all. I’m fact, I don’t see him with anyone, maybe just reconciling with family, that’s all
ew why are u telling me to relax when there was literally nothing overly dramatic about my reply… it was a normal response to what you said. you gotta chill with this pretentious holier than thou attitude
me saying “fairy tale” was a figure of speech bro. idk if you are truly reading the same story as all of us but it was simply a jab at you for expecting an off-course ending. the romance in the story has revolved around horus and seth starting to see eye to eye, so it genuinely wouldn’t make sense to add in a random love interest after all that’s happened between them. i really don’t know how u jumped to those conclusions?? but i was essentially pointing out how the you’re kinda ignoring the story/plot, then applying regular romance ideals. does that make sense. ofc no one would actually want a rapist and victim together but in this story incest, genocide, violence, and otherworldly beings are heavily present so it’s not really THAT insane for people to enjoy chemistry and genuine fondness between seth/horus
also im begging webtoon readers to stop using therapy terms for things you just find annoying or just want to criticize. “glorified” “infantilizing” “boundaries” “feelings of entitlement” i don’t think you even understand how to apply these terms. while it’s valid you don’t like how horus treated seth or don’t ship them, ur jumping great lengths to minimize seth’s character and also wrongly label these behaviors
Perhaps the term boundaries can be described as “therapy speak” but the other words are just descriptive vocabulary for what is happening, how would you describe them? Glorified is literally a regular word bro, so is infantilise. “Feelings of entitlement” has started to be regularly used and is in the zeitgeist to articulate things that used to be hard to articulate before. It feels like you zoned out when you read that last sentence, that’s the easiest and fastest way to convey what I wanted to say. It’s succinct, I could’ve gone a roundabout way to avoid the words that you immediately dismiss upon seeing and you don’t like.
There ain’t no romance here bro, idk what you are reading, on one hand you call shit dead dove (a term I literally never knew existed before your comment) on the other hand, readers aren’t prepped with the expectations that come with that term here. Literally. Seth has never once truly given in or shown any type of reciprocation to anyone throughout the entire story. What chemistry???? Seth ending up without a romantic partner with strengthened familial ties in the end isn’t off course.
Perhaps the term boundaries can be described as “therapy speak” but the other words are just descriptive vocabulary for what is happening, how would you describe them? Glorified is literally a regular word bro, so is infantilise. “Feelings of entitlement” has started to be regularly used and is in the zeitgeist to articulate things that used to be hard to articulate before. It feels like you zoned out when you read that last sentence, that’s the easiest and fastest way to convey what I wanted to say. It’s succinct, I could’ve gone a roundabout way to avoid the words that you immediately dismiss upon seeing and you don’t like.
There ain’t no romance here bro, idk what you are reading, on one hand you call shit dead dove (a term I literally never knew existed before your comment) on the other hand, readers aren’t prepped with the expectations that come with that term here. Literally. Seth has never once truly given in or shown any type of reciprocation to anyone throughout the entire story. What chemistry???? Seth ending up without a romantic partner with strengthened familial ties in the end isn’t off course.
Good awayyy. You're in here acting like a faux intellectual when really you're just an annoying cvnt. Non of your points make sense, you build two thirds of them based off of assumptions and your bird brain deciphering of the plot written by an Eastern author with your stupid Western mindset.
You want to analyze but you suck at it and now the comment section is subjugated to your bonus chromosomed takes
the amount of flowery language is astounding. it’s weird, since i genuinely hate the anti-intellectual movement happening within modern culture. so you’d think id enjoy seeing someone thoughtfully rant, but you explained your side using every word in the thesaurus to explain such simple opinions
its not a regular term in this context bro. again, u paired it with therapy speech which changes the connotation it’s in. for you to say i wasn’t digesting your paragraph at all or purposefully skipped it because i pointed out how you incorrectly diagnose actions and behaviors is completely disingenuous ? it makes our convo redundant when you do that. to further explain, i called out the use of those phrases because there is a better way to identify what horus does without inflating the action itself. you mischaracterize them but cover it up by using that vocabulary instead of digging deep into what truly bothers you about these scenes. horus does lack boundaries (not in this ch) i agree with that but saying he feels entitled to seth and infantilizing him is where i was lost. it goes against their characterization + ignores the context for why he takes care of seth. it’s not because horus believes he’s incapable; when he takes the reigns its only because seth needs it and doesn’t realize how he’s now incapable of doing things like before. he can fall ill, he can bleed, and it’s possible for him to be weak against humans. horus worships seth!! and rather than entitlement i thought we were just seeing him heavily pursue and court someone he’s admired for as long as he can remember. on the flip side seth is unable to accept being taken care of. he’s been a strong and powerful ruler, so his reluctance/dislike of doting stems from his own complex + dominating nature. rather than boundaries, his heavy denial is more of a response out of anger and frustration because he thinks getting any assistance = weak
i don’t think you’ve experienced fandoms for long or read enough media if you didn’t know what “dead dove” was before. ofc there’s tw on the official site however an illegal one won’t coddle ppl. if someone is old enough to read adult mature fiction, the least they can do is look at the tags/tw/genre/etc. that’s basic media consumption etiquette. also something tells me slow burn is not really a genre you enjoy, within this season we are seeing more of seth softening with horus’s presence?? it’s hard to explain chemistry to someone who only views chemistry as overt words instead of seeing subtle development through actions or details during newer interactions. to bring it up again, seth’s role as a leader and omniscient entity stunts his way of showing affection. he genuinely loved his wife until everything that went down. but also i wouldn’t think his priority right now is to pursue a relationship when egypt is destabilizing, his son is under osiris’s control, he needs to soothe the unrested souls, and much more needs to be resolved
*correction: when i said “it’s not because horus believes he’s incapable” i misspoke so the whole sentence sounds off
to rephrase, what i meant was: “it’s not because horus believes an extreme that seth is a child always in need of saving”
All of these mfs are related so I should be seeing “aunt”, “mother”, “father”, and “uncle” a whooole lot more than I’m seeing now. Hathor is literally aunt/sister to some of the gods we see. Can you explain why that is not happening but somehow Horus never fails to call Seth uncle?
Maybe you should read all your replies and try to find something you said that is not about hating this manhwa. As I've said, it's a YOU problem if you can't seperate FICTION from REALITY, and cocopuffs is right, this story ain't for you. If you don't like psychological, disgusting, etc stories like this, then go read your fluffy BLs.
Just to be clear, my recent comment was supposed to reply here.
Nah man, any comment just not liking Horus and Seth together or any comment disliking the rape or the rape or non con SA to lovers pipeline and it’s just not digested or tolerated. You guys become like those right wing anti immigrant ppl saying “go back to where you came from” or “criticism isn’t allowed” btw, my like to dislike ratio on the comment I wrote is 31 likes to 32 dislikes, that’s hardly an overwhelmingly disliked comment, many people reading feel the same and agree with my reasons and analysis. I am critical of the rape and the fetishisation of the rape, is that a crime? Like why won’t a lot of people in the comment section tolerate such criticism? What is going on? “It’s a dark story, go away if you don’t like it,” like are you contributing to the analysis or discourse, or are you just butthurt? I’ve been here for 165 chs man, I really like the art and the myth, I like Seth’s complex character, I want to see him atone and for those who’ve done him wrong to also atone, there is more to this story than the elements that I dislike.
Ok, the author probably does have a rape fetish. Why? Because rape is fetishised in this manhwa, it is added to this manhwa indiscriminately and is added in places not needed and yes the depiction is fetishising it. If it was simply rape that is treated as that, rape, it would be depicted a lot differently, we both know that.
And to your other pints, we just fundamentally differ in
We just differ in thoughts here. I do think it is infantilising because if someone is not listening to the words coming out of my mouth when I say something because they think they know better than me about my own body and my own safety, I’d be pissed. I don’t how you guys think Horus doesn’t think he knows better about Seth and his safety when he continually does stuff like this. “Yes, I know you can, but let me do this for you anyway,” is something an adult says to placate a child because they think they know better and they do know better. Seth is a grown ass god and now demigod, he still isn’t killed easily. He has had his autonomy taken from him so many times in so many cruel ways, I’m just tired of seeing that in all types of ways even in such innocuous parts of the story. “Oh, he won’t accept such help even though he probably needs it because he’s weaken,” that doesn’t matter to me. Personally, it is disrespectful when someone forces me to do something or not do something that I explicitly say I don’t want or want to do. That’s it, we differ here and we cannot change each other’s minds. And courting does not mean you are entitled to make Seth tell you where he’s been and with who and what he’s done. He cannot act like a jealous lover because he isn’t one. He is no lover. So this is just dumping unwanted emotions on Seth and now Seth has to deal with this BS. No, he should not have to deal with his insecurity or his advances especially if Seth made it clear he doesn’t want any of it. Leave him aloooone, just help him out without all that junk if you truly love him.
Look man, the author has portrayed Seth till now as somewhat aroace, maybe the author realised this and that’s why before they can make Seth and Horus make sense they have to go back and make it look like Seth is able to have romantic feelings like portraying that he could have them with his wife and that he did enjoy and seek sex outside of wanting to grow the family. 164-165 chs in. I never said he didn’t love his wife, especially as his precious family and partner, I just doubt he had romantic feelings for her. Literally never shown. No jealously, no deep betrayal at her possibly being with someone else, no forlorn looks after seeing her again, only focus on if his kid is not his bio kid before he knew his kid was in danger, because what matters to Seth is his family and his number one priority is his kid. It’s some retroactive correction stuff going on here and it is what it is. It needs to be done so Seth being into Horus makes sense. When I searched up dead dove I saw that the term is predominantly used in and has originated in the fan fic community. I literally have never read fan fic so that’s why I have never seen it. It is not widely used anywhere else. Yes you can have trigger warnings for rape but that’s it, you don’t get trigger warnings for “hey, this story will depict rape as something that is hella sexy and also it may be traumatic for the victim but they actually secretly like it too while it’s happening, hahahaha, very sexy stuff here, and also the rapist and victim will get together haha so beware” like bruh. That is all there is in the trigger warnings, all of the rest you need to read to see if they do that.
that is not a good comparison, that’s really insensitive. but the problem isn’t you disliking rape or sa… everyone does?? its that this story does have proper triggers had you looked them up + no one glorifies nor romanticizes the rape that happens
readers can acknowledge shitty or bad behavior AND still ship bc it literally doesn’t reflect morals or values since they’re drawings. people are commenting those things because you’re essentially giving such a watered down and basic take and doesnt acknowledge any of the complexities of the story. it literally starts off with incest; it wasn’t going to be a normal or wholesome webtoon from the start. the only truly reflective and interesting statement about the content you said was about seths sexuality
again you don’t know what a rape fetish is why do you keep calling the author that omg what ? i explained what it was to you too. its up to the readers to acknowledge when a behavior is immoral and have media literacy
an author can write about horrible shit but they don’t have to say “HEY THIS IS BAD DONT SUPPORT THE CHARACTER OR SHIP” because that responsibility lies on the consumer. you don’t know these people and a fictional work doesn’t = a persons own thoughts about REAL rape. when people watch horror movies the director doesn’t need to break the forth wall and shout “murder is bad!!! these characters are bad so you shouldn’t like them!!”. that discretion is up to viewers and enjoying characters (who do bad things or are bad people) translates to nothing in the real world! you come off really entitled and lack experience in reading culture by being unable to separate media from reality
we really do defer… i think you have some form of projection going on. because you see all that seth goes through and think its wrong that someone wants to take care of him or acknowledges he should be treated better/have it easier. he’s been brutalized, stripped of his title, left to fend for himself, hasn’t had a moment of peace and so much more so idk why you’re having so much dissonance with this scenario. horus doesnt strip seth down to some helpless being or infantilize him- im confused why you think assistance in any form means horus is enforcing a power dynamic. do you feel uncomfortable being taken care of or something? you know u deserve breaks and rest too right especially if you rule egypt for as long as seth has but also experienced half the stuff he’s been put through…
but again seth doesn’t get how different he is from before!!! he thinks he can do everything himself; when the reality is he does NOT know better about his safety and health because he’d rather die than ask for help. like him being sick or not realizing he was hungry. and i don’t like how you’re implying acts of service that horus did falls in line with the loss of autonomy from his assaults when those are completely incomparable situations
i keep circling back to this but him being an outer worldly being influences how he displays love and affection. you’re applying your ideas of romance and omitting how he’s a god of war and was even terrible at showing his own son how deeply devoted/loyal he was to him. so i don’t find it too odd he doesn’t seem “in love” with his wife when the very same guy ignored, hurt, and pushed away his son knowing full well he’d do anything for anubis. im all for you having that headcanon though but not when you mix it up with confirmed content
BRUH again that’s an entitled and pretty fallacious reasoning because it’s up to the reader to not consume content that they don’t like. you and others should have the capacity for identifying when bad things happen when seeing tw? what do you think they’re for? authors mean it when they use it wtf. the responsibility is up to you to drop a story but also look into official tags or warnings in general. and also tw and dead dove are congruent, they mean the same thing one is just for a gag lol. a webtoon wont ever be labeled dd. it comes from an american tv scene where a bag was labeled “dead dove” and someone opened it and surprised there was actually dead doves in the bag. the guy who opened it is offended but then people asked him what did he expect when the label was clearly there… which brought me to say why read dead dove (aka stories with heavy tw) but then be heavily critical it exists in the story
Yo, I never said the problem was me disliking SA, I said the there is a problem with me pointing it out. Simply pointing it out is enough to garner vitriol. Pointing it out and analysing Seth’s character and why the behaviour or people around Seth is somehow disturbing is 2 D analysis for some reason. What is the complexity that I am missing out?
What would be the reason that someone without a rape fetish would draw fetishised rape?
Your horror movie comparison sucks bruh, rape in horror movies is usually implied and is surrounded by horror elements, or that is part of the horror itself, or if it is shown completely then it is scrutinised as to the reason why it was shown and what it added to the story, like was it necessary. There is also a whole sub-genre of horror called rape-revenge where that is literally the premise, revenge after rape because it shows and treats rape as a violation and depicts the resultant anger, grief, fear, and hopelessness felt by the victim. And when these movies show the actual rape- surprise surprise!! They are scrutinised and reviewed to see, if it is some gratuitous portrayal of rape or if the rape is sexualised or if it instead focuses on the pain, the fear, the anger, and dissociation of the victim in the scene. There have been many instances of both and you should bet that when those directors and writers portrayed rape as sexualised and the victim secretly wanted it, their morality comes into question.
Seth was literally cursed by Osiris to be as weak as he thought he is or as weak as felt. It is depicted again and again that it is odd that he was able to be maimed by humans or other demigods or even be held down by them because he should still be stronger than the regular demigod given his history etc. Man, they didn’t even want him to fight against the caravan army people but he knew he could do it and he did do it. So all your stuff about needing to force Seth to be helped for his own good doesn’t hold up. And it is disrespectful to Seth that they behave like this with him. Let’s agree to disagree.
Yeah man, I just found out that’s from arrested development ( I love that show), but it’s used predominantly in fan fic circles so I just didn’t what it meant. Once again trigger warnings are different, I have no problem with rape in a story, I would just like to point out and criticise the use of it and the reason behind why it’s included in the work and for what. For example, one of my favourite horror movies is the nightingale which is a rape revenge story and where the rape scene was in full view, but in this case it wasn’t depicting a sexualised rape or a fetishised rape, instead it showed the horror of the scene and focused on the victim.
U GUYS HAVE BEEN ARGUING FOR AGES
Or not arguing? Idk
mb im not getting anywhere with this conversation so it’ll stop now hopefully LMAO
oranges to apples type beat unfortunately
All of these things were explained to you numerous times. You're a miserable troll go get laid or something idk
no that’s not the issue actually?? last thing ill say is there’s a systemic issue with rape against women. while yea i completely agree that’s a real issue within the horror industry and 100% have been disgusted with it/fought for it, you are not making a sound argument and using horror movie portrayal of rape as a scapegoat. real and graphic depictions of sexual assaults using real people as actors are COMPLETELY different from mf yaoi. so yea!!! not the same!! there’s a sinister motivation behind male directors who use women’s suffering as a punchline or for shock value vs written media that 1. has no backing for morality and 2. Isn’t even trying to normalize or justify rape?? if a person draws torture does that mean they have a torture fetish???? if a person draws graphic gore, do they have a gore fetish?? NO, its only an art decision that serves a purpose (even if it isn’t a sound or good one)
ur branched the topic out wrong.
Except for mat and thoth, they're not related and are also the most iconic and healthiest couple in ennead that we BARELY see
And you’re obtuse
Those were some cope answers man, apparently there isn’t a culture between gods for showing respect through familial ties but somehow Isis influenced Horus to do that but only with Seth but also somehow Horus does not do that with any other god other than maybe Nephythys, mayyyybe, and that is also Isis’s influence and does that make any sense to you? Even you couldn’t articulate it, you relinquished to saying “shut up idiot, you’re wrong”
You can’t just say I’m wrong and then proceed to say another version of what I said. First of all you brought in horror movies and then said something like if a director puts murder in a horror movie does that mean they like murder? So I gave you an example that’s comparable and takes nuance into account and then you proceeded to say the same thing I said and then idk, is men’s suffering in sexual assault not supposed to be taken seriously or smth? Is that why it’s prolific in yaoi? Why is yaoi held to different standards? Seth’s suffering in these overblown scenes is shown in a distasteful and sexualised way like how those directors portray sexualised rape. Are you saying you can’t cross examine different types of media? When you are the one that brought horror movies in to this comparison in the first place? Here it isn’t trying to normalise or justify rape, neither are those directors who portray rape, it is instead sexualising it and trying to show a narrative that says the victim enjoys it or it portrays the suffering in a way for people to get off to, ie, sexualised rape.
Now, if a person draws sexualised or fetishised torture, yeah, they may have a torture fetish. Why? Because the intent behind portraying these two scenes is different. Torture depicted that actually is vital to the story and has a reason to be there to move the story along vs sexualised torture that has another more creepy purpose. Same goes for gore vs sexualised or fetishised gore.
They do be excellent thooooo you’re right
Lmaooooo, idk either, I think this has been going on for like 3 days
No, that wasn't a "cope", that was an honest speculation. Argue all you want with the other person but don't offend me and drag me into it, please. It is enough to say you were not convinced by my argument
Omg noooo you are right, it was an honest speculation, I’m sorry about that. I thought no one was reading this thread anymore except the other person, this was out of line, I respect your opinion. But truly, does he call Nephythys aunt? Or Hathor great aunt? Or any of the other elders great aunt or great uncle? Because that is how everyone is related based on the family tree that was shown in the first few chapters. He deliberately only calls his parents, mother and father, Seth, his uncle, Nephythys isn’t even called aunt, neither is any other god called a familial name, and even Hathor calls the sun god mother despite Ra not believing in familial relationships between gods.
You reading the whole thing is your decision. Mind you, before going through the whole chapter, there is a trigger warning or notes at the very top. If you still choose to proceed, then it's already a YOU problem.
The thing is, chap. 144 only says kid Horus read Isis' old letters exchanged with *Seth*, NOT her letters with Nephthys or anyone else... Horus says to Seth in chapter 144: "Besides those cravings (depicting records of your victories as the guardian god who protected Egypt, in the walls of my mother's temple) I ALSO read the letters you and my mother exchanged, It seems she stored them in the temple to keep records of the weapons and military strategies you both devised. The reason I wished for you to reconcile... was because I knew of your relationship."
In other words, that Horus only found his mother's letters with Seth, which means, he only ever got to learn about the past familial relationship between his mother and Seth, not about her relationship with Nephthys or anyone else: the letters and her temple's carvings only depicted how the Isis before Osiris' death had a brocon affection for her "little bro" Seth, they didn't include Nephthys (probably because she didn't work together with Nephthys as much as she used to work with Seth). In one of the censored chapters that gives a PG-13 version of this story appears a different scene that I don't think was included in this "mature" version (the one we have access here): it is a flashback of when Isis had just heard from Nephthys that Seth had gone to confront Osiris after learning Anubis' was his bilogical son, and Isis made the decision to go there in order to stop Seth from trying to fight Osiris, since he'd only get manipulated by him. Isis said something about: "Stupid little bro, always rushing head first and not thinking things trough, and since he didn't even try to consult with me first, this impulsive move is only going to succeed in getting himself manipulated by Osiris YET ANOTHER TIME!" So, back then, she saw him as her beloved little bro. And that was due to the special relationship she had actively built with him, not merely because of their biological relation.
...And Ra? How could Isis have ever called her grandmother or whatever, when she has ALWAYS distrusted her because she knows Ra tried to prevent her and her siblings all from being born, due to Thoth's prophecy that "the children of Nut would destroy Egypt"? Isis never allowed Ra to get close. Besides, she also distrusted Ra because she was aware that Ra disliked her own husband, Osiris (even if she was mistaken about WHY Ra disliked him: she thought it was because Osiris had dethroned Ra, when the real reason was that Osiris was secretly turning Egypt into a desert, which is explained in chapter 35. That distrust for Ra caused Isis to equally distrust all the other deities around Ra (Hathor and co.) since when Hathor gives the mirror to Horus, Isis says not to trust Hathor and her gifts, since Ra must be behind them. As for Isis' own parents, Isis was not close with them either, since she says to her father Geb in chapter 64: "Why did you intervene? You were never fond of humans, NOR OF ANYONE ELSE BESIDES MOTHER, for that matter", implying her father never paid much attention to anyone besides his own wife (and Seth says the same thing about their mother Nut, in chapter 160). So yeah, that's how we know
That's why I said, before, that Horus calling Seth uncle is because of Isis' inluence: both the influence of her temple's carvings and of her letters, together with the fact that they lived DIRECTLY among humans while Horus was growing up, and even pretending to be humans, so what's so strange about a human-raised Horus adopting the humans' way of thinking about family members, and that having read his mother's letters with Seth, Seth is the only one he recognizes as an important family member of his mother?
To sum up, that aside from mere blood bond, the degree of good, bad, or nonexistent relationship these relatives and family members have with one another, and how they actually *feel* about any particular relative, DOES affect how they address one another, and that when they call each other "mother, father, uncle, etc" it can be either on a personal level, or on a formal one (or BOTH): on a personal level, it's to express an actual closeness they feel towards that particular relative; on a formal one, it's to ask collaboration in recognition for being deity from the same territory (Egypt) and/or family or clan as the one they're talking to (meaning, "I'm not a foreign god, I'm also a god from Egypt and I'm your son, nephew, etc, so please grant me attention, hear me out, and cooperate with me!)"
But ye, I would have cried if I saw that statue underwater in the dark
How beautiful, a temple for amphibians before humans. An ancient deity. The priest was a frog SO CUTTTTEEEE. They better not mess with the temple and leave it as it is, it is not for them, these human centric deities
I’m glad we are going the route of ‘Hikaru’ truly being an incomprehensible, monstrous, chaotic entity, that has never had and has no purpose, all of this was just some random stuff. I’m tired of humanizing monsters, and oh they feel too, just like us humans omgggg, they’re just like us, NAHHHH gimme ‘Hikaru’ the mimic, the walking corpse, the entity, the entity with no human desires or feelings because it is so so different, even if ‘Hikaru’ seems like he has such desires and feelings it’s always slightly different and unrelatable because it simply isn’t possible to relate to a fully random chaotic entity whose concepts of death, love, intimacy, and relationships aren’t even on the same plane as ours. Though I am sad the story has lost a little bit of the magic from the beginning that only comes from deep dark haunting grieving longing and love, unrequited or otherwise.
The last few chapters starting from when they entered the school has been pretty good horror. The demon creature thing is excellent, timing of the panels and scenes is really good, it’s very creepy. Also the last panel of this chapter was so lovely