AbbyChan's Topics (85)

Yes, he's really strong and that has put him in many situations growing up that have had him ostracized. He didn't get to socially interact much with everyone avoiding him, so now he is socially awkward and has no filter.

It's not that he has abnormal strength, but he cannot control his muscles. For example he doesn't have break on his grip so he cannot grip something lightly or gently. He cannot control his strength. Basically since he has no break = he has no limit, and we all have a limit to when we stop the grip. He doesn't. Funny example, know how in many zombie mangas zombies are way stronger than humans? That's because their nerve in brain for strength control is dead and they don't have the limitation.

I see what you're saying and appreciate the trivia, but that really seems like semantics. You say it's not that he has abnormal strength, but then go on to say he can't control his muscles and so has no physical limit. If the limit is normal and it causes the normal person to exhibit less strength than him, then he has abnormal strength. His strength isn't normal, abnormal strength. That's like arguing that the human giants with Gigantism aren't actually taller, they just have glands that produce too much growth hormones. It's like, yeah, but they're physically bigger. Yeah, but he is physically stronger.

I interpreted it more in terms of difficulty understanding and judging of situations generally. A previous comment suggested he may have Autism, which would definitely fit (although it may not have been the intention).

Therefore, he has trouble judging what is appropriate in terms of behaviour AND strength in different situations, and difficulty seeing things from someone else's perspective. He was told to give it his all when throwing the ball, so he took that literally, and wasn't able to judge what was actually appropriate in the situation. He gets absorbed in his own perspective and has difficulty noticing when he is too enthusiastic, too strong, too focused (not aware of things around him) etc.

That is how I understood it, anyway. The strength was just one manifestation of that.

It's not trivia it's an actual neurological difference. Think of it as water in two containers of the same size. The "A" container has a cover with an adjustable opening and B is completely uncovered. That's a difference in *function* not *capacity*. Other persons can squeeze just as hard and destroy things just as well as Tatsumi can but they have the ability to restrain themselves and adjust according to what a situation requires.

A vaguer phrase like "abnormal strength" is open to a lot more confusing and misguided interpretations (like comparisons to Gigantism, which in my example, would require a different size container entirely and the presence or absence of a cover wouldn't matter). Semantics--meaning--is important.

All the same, if Tatsumi is supposed to be autistic that kind of aggressive behaviour is usually explained as a reaction to emotions, behaviour or situations they don't understand. I wouldn't describe it as him having no limit--he just has more trouble figuring out what the limit is.

I guess i can see what you mean now that you clarified that it's a difference in capacity rather than function, which is how i was looking at it. As you said, i think it was really just your wording that was confusing as what i said in response was valid within the context of your original statement.

That's more of just fanon, the actual reason that the manga has given for his behavior is just that he can't control his strength and that ostracized him making him socially awkward. I mean, maybe he is autistic, but who knows. The author makes a lot of their characters like that.

Wait, you've got point there.

Aye, I didn't know how to explain what I meant on English... XD

Oh, i thought "Kiki" was you Nao Ren. Weird for a 3rd party to come in and correct you, but i guess it doesn't matter as they worded what you meant in a way that fits. My response was just to what you had originally said, that being "abnormal strength", but Kiki clarified capacity is the difference.

Yeah, I noticed ^_^

I wouldn't know how to word it out.

Anyways, i think it makes sense to word it as that he "can't control his strength", though i'd like to clarify that that is what i'd been trying to say in my original response to the OP. The context here is that we've all read the manga, seen the evidence and are now discussing what we saw. What was shown is him using excessive force, not him displaying strength too great for a human. So if i say that he's "really strong" while discussing what we saw, the implication should be that i was saying he used great strength. Which he did. If i look at a guy push a heavier guy out of the way and say "he's really strong", the logical thought is just that i mean he can display great strength, not that he's superhuman.

I think Nao Ren, you just got confused and took it to mean that i was saying he has superhuman strength when i said he's "really strong". You corrected me saying he doesn't have superhuman strength, but you worded it as "abnormal strength", which made me not realize you meant "superhuman" as his situation can definitely be labelled "abnormal".

I wasn't correcting you, by the way. I understood your explanation very well. In the last paragraph I only offered my own opinion (*not* to correct yours) because, as youraedthiswrogn observed, the mangaka did leave it open to interpretation, even though Tatsumi-san does seem to be coded as autistic.

Okay. I guess the "really strong" didn't work for me because there's nothing to suggest that the other kids when he was young--or anyone else as he got older--were any weaker than him. It plays into the negative stereotype that made others avoid him in the first place: "He's this strong bully don't play with him!" (Even your example plays into it.) The mangaka went to great efforts to show it was a mental rather than physical issue, so I thought it best to focus on the source: his different way of understanding the world and how that it impacted his development. Won't get into the stigmatisation in English around using the word "abnormal" to describe humans. Agree to...slightly disagree? lol ╮(￣▽￣)╭

Aye, I know, I just agreed with you (I meant the same thing but didn't know how to explain) XD

Aye that's what I meant XD

I think you're stigmatizing the word "abnormal" in your head, it just means out of the norm. You seem to be loading it with moral meaning.

Okay (´ڡ`)

You're drawing a lot of conclusions from what i said that i didn't draw myself and you're sounding super hostile while accusing me of having issues with the mentally disabled based on nothing, if you can't have a calm discussion like the rest of us you can leave.

You could be right, however the character is clearly shown as having other social cognition difficulties (i.e. difficulties interacting and understanding situations), which form the main part of the story. No explanation is given for that, so it may only be intended as a milder aspect of his character that has never been appropriately addressed in his upbringing. It's true the only thing clearly spoken about is the strength, but the main problem in the story is not his strength but his understanding of others and situations.
Furthermore, the strength story seemed like it was largely to show how adults and others throughout his life had interpreted things based just on his strength rather than trying to understand what he was thinking and that the problem really lay there rather than in strength or violence.

But it's interesting how that seemed obvious/unquestionable to me, while other readers saw it differently.

In addition to what i said about you stimgatizing the word abnormal, i'd also like to say that i find your assertion of "the mangaka went to great efforts to show that it was mental rather than physical" unfounded. It explicitly just showed that he was ostracized because of his physical strength, because he wasn't able to control it. He kept accidentally exhibiting excessive force until he was ostracized and then became socially awkward. You saying that it is a mental issue can lead into it being autism, there is nothing in the manga supporting that he has any mental issues. He's not on medication, there haven't been any therapists or doctors shown, just him accidentally using too much strength in scenarios where he would've normally used less.

It has explained everything, he is socially awkward, that's why he interacts with people the way he does and needs that extra help. He never got the social interaction he needed to understand things that we view as basic knowledge. His strength is the real issue, it's why he was ostracized in the 1st place, that's what that scene was showing.

In Australia, a mental health or medical professional would never call a person abnormal because the common understanding of the word has strayed from its basic meaning to be associated with things like "crazy" or not how one is supposed to be. Even though the professionals themselves might be using it neutrally. In fact, when I was studying Autism research, we even used "neurtypical" instead of "normal" just to avoid any suggestion that not in the "normal" group were freaks. (Even though neurotypical basically means the same thing!)

So, it's very true that the word abnormal may be literally correct, but in many societies it's basically synonymous with crazy or freak, so it's more sensitive not to use it (why hurt people if we don't have to?)

That just sounds like social justice, i find that it makes more sense to explain the meaning of words and why the person shouldn't be upset by it rather than just catering to the individuals. If i start with "abnormal", where do i stop? People keep finding more and more words to be offended by that don't even have any loaded meaning or history. This isn't like saying the "N word", which has historical significance as a slur, "abnormal" literally just means "out of the norm". For example, being gay is "abnormal" as the majority is composed of straights, but that doesn't mean the gay sexual orientation isn't normal. The norm and normal aren't the same thing, i believe this is where that misunderstanding is coming from. The norm is a numbers game, normal is a more loaded statement as it's more of just personal opinion while as the norm is factual numbers.

Also, your wording is a little off there, "calling" someone abnormal is offensive, observing that something is abnormal within a professional context isn't offensive. You don't just go up and say "you're abnormal". An example of valid context would be: Hey doc, is my being gay abnormal?" doctor: "Being gay is normal, it is one of 3 scientifically acknowledged sexual orientations, however if we're discussing numbers it is true that straight people outnumber gay people so being gay is "abnormal", but just in the sense that it isn't the norm as the gay sexuality is the minority. There is nothing wrong with being gay, if that is what you're asking. If so, what you meant was 'is my being gay normal'?".

I think another thing that confuses people is that "normal" and "the norm" are used interchangeably, but only if "normal" is being used to mean "the norm". The english language is confusing...

Yes, I actually agree with you in theory! Your points are very reasonable.

In a health profession, however, the focus may be more on using what little time they have to explaining the condition and providing support/intervention. Trying to also re-educate people one-by-one regarding terms like abnormal may not be a priority (even if desirable), and may not take away any feeling of stigma successfully anyway.

When communication is not face-to-face and one-on-one, such as written reports that may be seen by relatives, teachers etc. who mightn't have the same type of education, there is greater risk of misunderstanding. And, of course, in apublic commentlike this, you can't kmow everyone's background and how they'll interpret things.

And it's always ignorant/nasty people who turn a word negative, but it's the people saddled with that label who get hurt.

Unfotunately.

We use words to express morality and, depending on how they are used, words are weighted with meaning, moral and otherwise. There have been entire movements centred around this fact, in so many different parts of different societies, around what we consider "normal" and "abnormal" (including the medical community). It's surprising that anyone could be a BL reader, with all the storylines involving characters being punished for not fitting into "normal" society, and miss such an obvious reality. I do you the courtesy of assuming English is not your first language to excuse your ignorance--and your rude assumption that I made it all up somehow. (The Japanese equivalent for "abnormal" to describe persons may not carry quite the same burden but this is clearly not the thread for that kind of nuanced discussion.)

My last comment. Ta.

I'm not sure why you're upset? And what do you mean i implied you "made it up"? You honestly lost me. English actually is my 1st language, i think you're misunderstanding something, i was making a distinction between "normal" and "the norm" in relation to the word "abnormal". I feel that the word "abnormal" is stigmatized through misunderstanding rather than through any type of loaded history.

Written communication is always between professionals, the likelihood of a professional getting upset at the proper use of the word abnormal is unlikely as they know the word is being said within a professional context. Doctor/patient interactions are always done one on one. As it is more of just the consumer that you have to worry about, i don't think the problem lies outside one on one encounters as that is where the highest likelihood of offense being taken lies. I don't view it as necessary to avoid the use of the word abnormal in one on one communication with the consumer as if any offense is taken you can just apologize after explaining the word if explaining doesn't pacify them. I think you'll find that within healthcare specifically they're less worried about the person's feelings and more about making them healthy so language isn't really a factor. My experience in hospitals is that they're very brisk and professional, they don't cater to people, they just do their jobs.

I suspect we are not in the same part of the world? Your experiences are different from my professional experiences (I'm a primary teacher with a psychology degree, and I'm in Australia). I can't say what it is like in other parts of the world, so I'm NOT saying that your experiences are incorrect. However, it sounds like you are stating this is how it is in the medical/professional world everywhere, but it is not the case here.

(For instance, reports about minors by professionals such as psychologists, speech pathologists etc. will be read by their family and possibly their classroom teacher (depending on the situation). Neither family nor teachers are necessarily as knowledgeable about the terms used by medical/mental health professionals (and, often, there are terms that are used in common conversation but have a slightly different meaning in a medical/psychological context). Teachers often don't meet with the person who wrote the report, and not all family members may meet the professional in person, either. On top of that, where I live and work is not a highly educated area and is also has a high migrant population, which means there is even more chance of misunderstandings occurring, or even cultural stigmas that we from the mainstream British culture aren't aware of.)

Well, my point with all of this is merely that where I live things seem to be different, so I guess we are discussing this basing our opinions on different situations.

I think you're right, i live in America btw. It seems as though we might just have different experiences. Also, i can imagine the healthcare in Australia being different what-with the difference in dangers posed there, healthcare is probably a more prominent and focused- on thing. (´ڡ`)

he can read fluffy air!!! he's the best!