ｋｉｔｔｙ's Topics (117)

PREACH

Sis you speak nothing but the truth

*BJ in BJ Alex starts crying*

I guess Jiwon started doing it to get over his destructive phase after having his heart broken, so now that’s hes happy he doesn’t need to do it anymore. And he probably doesn’t wanna get found out. Maybe they’ll bring it back at the end and he gets caught, for more drama

Yeah,and I think Alex's beanie friend who had found semen on the couch will play a crucial role then

Ohhh yeah forgot about him. If he doesn’t come back I’m gonna be confused

Oh boy, Idk about that, for what I've seen in Yaoi/Shonen Ai if the author do sex scenes they don't hold or drag for so long. I hope there's one, cause I endured a lot in this story. And I don't even can like Siwon at this point, so is just gonna be less thrilling.

We have seen enough rape tropes/non consensual relationships in yaoi. Most of the best yaoi out there are all about consent. Using and abusing of that kind of plot nowadays is just too cliché...

Consent, especially in real life, is taken lightly, so i think it's a good thing that people can identify it as a violent even in fiction. I think that once you understand this as a violent act is that you can identify and appreciate the fiction objectively. Just my opinion.

Your first point just proves my statement. This troupe is commonly used in BL and doesn't appear to be going away, so why are you reading them? Your comments here on this illegal publication of the manga also fall on deaf ears because the mangaka has no incentive to try and please the this audience. So not only are you wasting your time getting upset reading something that commonly found in this genre, but you're also wasting time critiquing their work of which the mangaka will probably never see and acknowledge. Just saying lol.

But most of the intended audience IS aware that this was not consentual. If you read yaoi in general, then you're mostlikely accustomed to non-consentual troupes. Dozens of comments telling people what we already know is unneccessary in my opinion.

Speech

i agree. if we are reading this kind of fiction we should already know the rules of the genre. I think that they are just comments from people who perhaps do not have a critical reading and maybe they still fell uncomfortable with reading not consented relationships. I mean, it's not a light issue.

What I implied was that it was outdated or used in mediocre works. Of course it is still used, but it is going against the actual trend that tends to do more original, complex, or real-like stories. Apart from some exceptions like Harada who has a strong style and push things to the extreme which appeals to people, but you love or hate it. There is no "rule", we don't read the same yaoi that were made ten, twenty years ago. Do you still think the "yaoi hand" is the usual drawing style for example and that you should expect it when reading yaoi?
Also, I was talking to you, like you do on forums. My wallet is the one talking to the authors (is yours talking?). Yoneda Kou, Ichikawa Kei, Asumiko Nakamura, Zakk... are amazing authors that don't fall in the tropes and are, wether you like it or not, representative of today's yaoi scene.

I want to politely point out that it wasn't a "violent" act, i think you're using the wrong word. Here:

Violence: the intentional use of physical force or power, threatened or actual, against oneself, another person, or against a group or community, which either results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death, psychological harm, maldevelopment or deprivation.

There was no physical force used, he was asleep so there wasn't even a struggle and technically he came to no harm. "violent"/"violence" is being misused here. You should say something like "disgusting" action as you're trying to describe the severity of the action and no physical force was used. A "violent" act would be something like hitting someone. Rape CAN be violent, but isn't inherently.

I can't disagree more. Violence is not only physical. There are many forms of violence. And without doubt going against the will and the choice of a person is something that violents not only it's body. Rape is always violent.

No, that's factually incorrect, that's why i brought it up at all. To put this blatantly, and i want you to know i don't mean this to be rude, it's not a matter of whether or not you agree. I agree with the sentiment of what you're saying, but the wording is wrong, is all. Violence is a specific thing, it's not "many things" as you're saying. Violence has to involve physical force. If you're talking about "violation"/"violate", that's more accurate.

Abuse is violence. Harassment is violence. Verbal abuse is violence. The abuse of power is violence. Sexism is violence. Discrimination is violence. Labor inequality is violence. And rape is always violence.

No, that's factually incorrect. Do you realize that you're literally just saying something that just isn't true, what you're doing is the same as if i came up and said all rapes happen in burger king. It's like, yes, SOME happen in burger king, but factually not all do. Something, anything, is only violence/violent if physical force is used. That is indisputable. That's not for you or i to argue as it's information available to everyone. Violence is a specific thing.

I guess maybe you could count all rape as violence if, in situations like in this manga, you counted them sexually assaulting the victim as "physical force" as it leaves psychological harm. The thing is, the definition specified physical force AND injury with psychological harm being an after thought. The implication here being that whether something is "violent" or not being determined by actual physical trauma. Not emotional/psychological. "hurt" most likely being mentioned as it accompanies physical pain. Obviously, if the victim woke up in pain, it means there is injury, i.e. violence.

You can even call it "sexual violence", this is an established blanket term for a certain amount of sexual crimes.

Obviously, not all authors are going to fall these sort of troupes, but whether or not these authors are considered to be "amazing" or not, is highly opinionated and up to the individual themselves to decide(as well as the actual talent of the author). And too many times have I stumbled across works that try deviating from the norm, but end up lacking in quality or resort to using a generic troupe to resolve their conflict. Much of what you're talking about seems to be straying farther from my original point, which may or may not have been my fault due to my previous reply, which I apologize for. However I digress by stating that I still stand by my original contemplations over why people choose to read something a genre that is full of scenarios that stress them out.

I'd also put up for consideration that some people actually enjoy these troupes, and trying to see it dissipate from the genre due to one's own negative emotions over the troupe is ultimately cutting off someone else's enjoyment, when there are other mangas that do not involve such content.
(sorry if this was TLDR or hard to understand lol)

-different person- I just wanted to say that your argument seems sound. The obvious reason is simple enjoyment. You (not you) can complain about the content of any piece of literature/media, but the moment you CONTINUE to partake it's clearly because you're enjoying the story either despite or maybe even because of the content. It's like, why do people watch scary movies even though they're scary? You can even take it outside of literature/media, adrenaline junkies do crazy things to satisfy an urge. There are many everyday examples of people partaking in subject materials they deem problematic/scary. It's normal.

-possibIy on a tangent- i know people like to argue that portraying these things in literature can somehow notably alter a person's moral code, but that theory is entirely unfounded propaganda being pedalled all over the place. It's "games are making kids violent!" all over again, the thing is, that (about gamers) has already been disproven. In fact, gaming has a positive impact, gamers show hightened intelligence and problem solving skills. The same will be said for this soon, i'm sure. What people don't realize is that people are very opinionated unless given solid evidence against their beliefs, what this means is that, when you read something you view as "wrong" within literature it'll only serve to reaffirm your beliefs. You'll see it, react according to your beliefs and make you feel stronger about it. For example, a normal person knows rape is "wrong" and will react accordingly when seeing it, if you see rape you're going to feel sorry for the character as you recognize this is bad and seeing the toll it took on the character will reaffirm that rape is "bad" to you. Of course, all of this is very subconscious and has no REAL impact on your beliefs. Only information portrayed as facts tends to change perspective.