massregrets October 1, 2018 7:00 am

Sho is that you?! When did they replace you with your stunt double?!

massregrets September 16, 2018 8:05 am

Echoing the sentiment that we all know how this webtoon will end but that the path there is cliche/ unrealistic. I think the issue as well is that the author had a cute concept "Male fan becomes sex friends with the cam boy he’s dreamed about! Drama ensues!" but utterly botched it on the personalities necessary to make that dynamic fun/ interesting and more importantly plausible. DG and Alex have one of the worst personality match ups I’ve ever seen in a yaoi to date.

Imagine instead if DG was a fan, but had a rich sex life/ experience base outside of Alex and was a likable, confident guy. After a night of drinking with friends/ fellow students, DG sees Alex’s birthmark and Alex offers sex to keep DG quiet. DG turns him down, says he’d never out him, he’s just a fan and promptly leaves with someone else that night. Alex becomes intrigued that someone, even a fan could so easily reject him and find another partner without a second thought. The next night, Alex imagines as he is doing a stream what type of face DG would make. He then becomes determined to have this fan who won’t have him. To see that face for himself. DGs secret is that since he became a fan, he thinks of Alex’s streams when with a sexual partner, but never would have considered making Alex a reality until the night before. They both ask for a casual sex trial run... which blows both of their minds. Sex friend agreement.

You’d have equality in experience, two people who have the same expectations (sex friends and no romance), but the chemistry is way more than either one had expected - both in the bedroom and out. They have preconceived notions about each other that are wrong, i.e. "Alex" is a persona, DG has far more to him than being a "fan." They’re both bigger than their initial impressions indicated. They both have commitment fears, keep Alex’s reason the same and maybe give DG a dislike of things that are complicated, so he seeks out easy arrangements where both parties are incredibly upfront.

And then you have a great dynamic of someone scared of emotional vulnerability but desperately seeking connection with the one person who has zero qualms telling them no. Let Alex deal with his fear of rejection yet realize no just means no, it isn’t always personal rejection of all Alex is, DG’s just completely comfortable laying out boundaries for himself. Add a reliability to DG that he always says what he means, making him stable and attractive to Alex after such a terrible betrayal. Let DG help Alex open up to him as a friend only to find he’s soft on Alex, fond of his complication on his life, and their bond as equals. Let them both realize they’re not seeking anyone else out because in the other they’ve met their match. Let the drama be in them uncovering and discovering each other and their surprise that they like this person beyond sexual chemistry. Maybe it’s scary for both of them to develop into this confidante-meets-sex-friend relationship when they realize they’ve never shown anyone else 100% who they were before and have it so readily accepted and they’re terrified of losing that bond by breaking their arrangement.

Just how I would fix this premise anyway. It’s a completely different story, but that’s kind of my point. Same premise, but with two personalities well suited for each other and thereby a different path because the two together have a believable future with actual chemistry. As is reading this webtoon is an act of willful suspension of disbelief.

    Anonymous September 16, 2018 8:36 am

    You're describing your fantasy and passing it off as a critique. That's not what this story is. It's one thing to say that you don't like it because you don't believe the characters or story are realistic/your cup of tea, or you wanted more curveballs or to FEEL like you couldn't easily guess what will happen or whatever (which is debatable considering the story isn't even finished yet and NO ONE saw Jiwon's proposal coming a second time). It's another entirely to super impose your ideas for the protagonists onto them because you think your fantasy is hotter. Maybe it is to you, but you'll have to go find that story and accept this isn't what you thought it was. This isn't about two self actualized people stumbling into a healthy relationship. This is about two people with a lot of growing to do stumbling into a sexual relationship that makes them question their desires as individuals and a couple. It's messy. It's their story. And maybe I got lucky because I picked up on this right away, but that's why I stayed. Because I knew I was reading a messy story about a kind-hearted emotional masochist and an asshole with baggage and a dick that won't quit. Everything else after that was me along for the ride watching realistic reactions to an outlandish premise.

    They don't need to be likeable or have what you deem chemistry in order for them to be LIKED and have chemistry in the eyes of others. That's why each couple and each story is different. If there were all meant to be be the same what would be the point of having more than one couple type, more than one story type. It'd all be gold but sometimes you have to make room for copper.

    Maybe you're just in the mood for an act of willful disbelief. Maybe you're forcing yourself to read this because a lot of other people are and you want to be in the conversation. But the story you're describing, the one you want to read, is ironically a story I've read 1000 times before. They're called friends to lovers stories, where each party is on equal footing and equipped to lay out boundaries and push boundaries because of knowledge and respect with a pinch of the excitement that sex can bring as it changes that dynamic. This is not that, so maybe that's what you mean by "predictable". It's far more common for people to try and use each other to fill a void than it is for them to enter a relationship built on trust, mutual respect, AND sexual chemistry rooted in complementary personalities. The latter is often a fantasy though. And in stories it often reads as sweet and safer, which this story never gave people the impression it would be. It has sweet moments and elements, but it's a story about sex, sexuality, and how to navigate it when feelings get involved.

    There's a reason they say opposites attract. And there's a reason they say "it ain't over till it's over." For all any of us know this story has another 10 chapters if not more to come to a "realistic" conclusion -- you know, for a story about an introverted self-proclaimed pushover who just happens to stumble onto the secret identity of the most popular gay sex-worker in South Korea, who also happens to be in his class, who also happens to be enamored with him enough to propose sex despite him being his literal opposite in human form and a liability to his side business. If you weren't playing around with suspension of disbelief in chapter 1, I don't know what to say other than you might have played yourself.

    massregrets September 16, 2018 6:05 pm
    You're describing your fantasy and passing it off as a critique. That's not what this story is. It's one thing to say that you don't like it because you don't believe the characters or story are realistic/your ... Anonymous

    Hey, thanks for the response! I appreciate the time you took to state your viewpoint and share your passionate opinion. I agree!

    You’re right, what I listed was an entirely different story with the same premise with completely different themes from the existing work. Which was the point. What you described is what this story is as it is and you clearly listed the multitude of coincidences we are asked to accept/ suspend our disbelief over. Which was also the point! All stories ask you to accept certain things that couldn’t possibly be in their setup, the issue arises when repeated suspension of disbelief is required to comprehend character emotional responses and behavior.

    It’s great that this story became what you were looking for and expecting! Please understand that for others it’s been a repeated disappointment, a train wreck you can’t look away from that you see so many other paths/ ways out of as a storyteller when you see standard shoujo arcs manifesting themselves despite the adult content. I think voicing that frustration is perfectly alright, same as you doing the same here with me!

    Anonymous September 16, 2018 6:45 pm
    Hey, thanks for the response! I appreciate the time you took to state your viewpoint and share your passionate opinion. I agree!You’re right, what I listed was an entirely different story with the same premis... massregrets

    Thanks for your mature response in return. I think the reason I responded to you is because I see a problem with the ideology that a story has to provide something new in order to be worth being told. There are only so many stories in this world, and yes, voicing opposition to the way it's told is our right as readers/viewers. But I do think we are just as responsible for assessing our own biases as we are the stories we're critiquing.

    The problem I see a lot of the time is people blaming a story for not giving them what they want, rather than their rampant ingestion of derivative material with the mindset that each derivative story was supposed to provide something fresh. So a grudge forms, causing each subsequent story after that to be another in a long line of badly drawn tropes, rather than the an entry in their catalogue of dissatisfaction with searching for and not finding what they crave. It's like going the fridge craving and apple and finding only oranges. If you keep eating oranges when you want apples, it doesn't matter how good the orange is. It will just taste like more of the same citrus you didn't want in the first place.

    Yet people continue to seek out the same tropes, the same premises, not taking into account that their tastes again and again land them in the same swamp of dissatisfaction. It can cause us to be unfair to a story that is well crafted because we mistake "done before" for "done poorly". I tend to branch out, if I'm not invested I leave because I don't spend a lot of time trying to force a piece of art to work for me. So I end up butting against fewer and fewer stories that read as tropes and more and more stories that read as explorations of the human condition that make me think. Or in the case of smut get you off and make you think. Whatever.

    All this to say, the story you're reading -- at first -- required suspension of disbelief. That was the hook. But once it got going, what seems to have put people off is not that it's shoujo #145688 of the same old shit. But that it's a realistic and frustrating exploration of what real people would do if in this situation. They act like idiotic train wrecks that make the same mistakes until the universe gives them a swift kick in the ass. Alex does not become a compassionate love smitten hero thanks to DG's gentle love and willing body. DG does not become the man with the iron spine over night who will resist Alex's cruelty. That is actually much more tropey than what we've gotten so far. There is consistency of character rather than innovation of themes. And that's why I criticized your comment. You want the latter, but you're ignoring the former in the process of articulating your wants and it kind of seemed like the way you wrote made me think you're smart and might see my view if I pressed.

    There's a story on here that I'm reading that I feel a similar way about. I feel it's lost some of it's verve, but my displeasure with it is not the story itself. I know if I wrote it I would do so differently but that's not my gripe. If I wanted to do that I just would. It's the mechanics of the narrative and the pacing that has me frustrated. I still believe that in the end the author is telling something unique to their voice, but it absolutely falls into tropes that have been done in psych horror before. There are no new stories. But I don't need there to be in order to enjoy them. I need them to be well written and for the author to be in control. And if they keep me coming back, they are, they have me. So if people don't like this one, it tends to be because they just don't like this author's voice, and not necessarily because she hasn't carefully constructed a narrative that keeps you 1. coming back and 2. watching characters progress from one conflict/arc to the next. Count them out by 10s and you will see that on each 10th chapter or so a major progression happens. That's not an accident. And I don't think this story as it's been written was an accident either. Not perfect, but not as bad as people make it out to be because they want to smack the characters.

    Anonymous September 16, 2018 7:05 pm

    Also I fully admit and own that I have my own biases regarding this story and am bothered by some of the comments, so I want to say I'm by no means perfect. I always reserve the right to change my mind and if I see a well crafted argument in opposition to my own I do. I just haven't seen one regarding this story that doesn't seem to be rooted in judging the characters for their behavior rather than trying to empathize with it. Perhaps that's some of the appeal. People get to be high and mighty with the characters while in real life they struggle not to be like them. I'm mostly here to comment when I see an angle that I think someone might have missed and to see if I'm missing some myself. Anyway, thanks again for the response and reading mine. I do appreciate that you took time out to write something that took some thought and evaluation. :)

massregrets August 27, 2018 7:16 am

Chanwoo and MD are the only reason I am sticking with this story because Alex and DG are insufferable. I don’t even care if they get back together because they are so toxic for each other, so diametrically opposed in terms of personality and conflict resolution there is zero hope for this relationship long term. Even if they hook back up as the "end game’ to the series, they’ll just break up 6 months to 2 years later and... it’ll be a hellfire and brimstone break-up for the ages.

They’re simply incompatible. It will *never* work. There is not enough couple’s therapy in the world for these two men. It cannot be done. They need to hedge up there bets, lick their wounds and move on. There is nothing to mourn because I honestly don’t see what either of them could possibly like about the other person at this point. What attraction or interest could possibly remain? They don’t even like each other as people. They’re not even friends. They have no similar interests. What have they even *spoken* about?

I’m sure the author will find some sort of reason why these two characters will hook back up, maybe some shoujo quality rival arc... But why? These characters have zero chemistry beyond some initial fuck buddy shit that honestly fizzled out into cringeworthy sex with no consent real fast. Hell, it occurred to me that DG had sex with Alex while he was too drunk to consent either and even if "he wanted it" did he even know who he was fucking? Like... I just cannot being myself to care about either of these men and cannot see any believable future in which they remain together.

Maybe the author will have mercy on us and realize what her characters already know: there is no path for them and give us actual chemistry couple Chanwoo and MD. Otherwise this is just mind numbing to read.

massregrets August 19, 2018 11:35 am

It’s a goddamn train wreck. I think they’re both assholes. One for entering into a sex friend relationship when he *knows* he is already up to his eyeballs in feelings. The other for treating him as both brutally and violently expendable. But getting shit faced and publicly fucking with someone’s *job* because your sex friend doesn’t love you like you do? GTFO DG.

That’s so low. This person has a life outside of you, you don’t get to fuck that over because you’re upset it’s not exclusive. The terms you both agreed to explicitly stated otherwise. DG should have realized you should never bang your fantasy, especially when you know next to nothing about them beyond their sexual experiences recounted to a stream of hundreds or thousands. Nothing about Alex says relationship material. Not a damn thing! He’s got more red flags than a communist parade!

Best thing for both would be separation and complete failure of the relationship. Alex has to learn he can’t treat people this way. DG needs to learn he can't treat people this way. Alex needs to learn not to leap light years down a sex act *when they’ve already said no or they are frightened.* DG needs to learn not to push his emotions/ attachments on others like a 2 ton boulder from a cliff *when they’ve already said no or told you they aren’t interested.*

I want all these two losers alone and in therapy for a solid year before they even attempt a relationship with another (new!) human being. Alex should learn about consent, resolving never to do what he did again. DG should examine his shit boundaries and poor decision making skills. They’re both hot messes slapping each other with immature bs nobody deserves to put up with. It’s like daytime soap Degrassi with vaping, smart phones, and adult streamers. Or Hate Mate: Cam Boys and Regrets edition with equally insipid protagonists.

Again, I can’t tell if I should feel like this is dramatic or comedic. It keeps going for jokes/ the incredulity of the situation, but then it’s throwing backstories, traumatic sex, lost jobs, and live-broadcast drunken tirades at me. It’s tone deaf as hell. It’s like buying tickets for a slapdick comedy and getting a lecture in Assholes: He’s Just Too Immature for You (or Anyone) 101 with a weekly seminar in This is Why You Leave Him 150 and a weekend workshop in Delete His Damn Number and Love Yourself 222R.

Now Chanwoo and his BDSM Daddy, however? They can takeover as MCs anytime.

    lerahstanley August 19, 2018 11:53 am

    SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK

    massregrets August 19, 2018 12:03 pm
    SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK lerahstanley

    THESE FUCC BOIS BE DUMB AS HELL AND NEITHER SHOULD TAKE IT ANYMORE.

    Unless you’re Chanwoo, in which case carry on being a goddamn king.

    Diamond August 19, 2018 12:41 pm

    Thank you for realizing that they both have issues. The new posted comments need to read this and take the stick out their asses.

    massregrets August 19, 2018 1:06 pm
    Thank you for realizing that they both have issues. The new posted comments need to read this and take the stick out their asses. Diamond

    They’re both terrible people who need to grow up. Alex was physically and emotionally traumatizing to be with, and DG was overbearing as fuck and repeatedly lied to maintain a relationship he couldn’t handle. But this act is the icing on the WTF IS WRONG WITH BOTH OF YOU cake. I truly hope they don’t end up together. You can’t apologize your way out of "I drunkenly cost you your job on a live stream because I hate not being able to monopolize your romantic attention." Not even in a committed relationship would that be acceptable.

    lerahstanley August 19, 2018 6:56 pm
    They’re both terrible people who need to grow up. Alex was physically and emotionally traumatizing to be with, and DG was overbearing as fuck and repeatedly lied to maintain a relationship he couldn’t handl... massregrets

    (⊙…⊙ ) I think, if the author saw this, they'd take it with a grain of salt. This is spot on!

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