The other way it could go with Scholar Inhun’s poem and its plot relevance is that it is a very romantic poem — if Inhun were to publicly condemn Lord Yoon over his homosexuality, all Lord Yoon would have to do is produce the plagiarized poem Scholar Inhun gave to his student, the lowborn painter of erotic homosexual acts from a kisaeng and Inhun’s reputation would be destroyed. Turning the poem Nakyum treasured into the poison tipped arrow that killed his first love.
Truly depends on how fucked up this story aims to be. Does the author want Lord Yoon and Scholar Inhun to destroy each other and in turn ruin Nakyum’s heart beyond repair and end in tragedy? Or do they wish to begin revealing one monster only to unveil the real monster as the one who hides behind letters and virtue? Having Nakyum lose his innocence, but not his hope?
We’ve got no choice but to wait and see.
This was so beautiful like poetry
This is the type of synopsis I want in my life
What...? This poem that the teacher gave to Nakyum was plagiarised by him?
Yup, scroll down in the comments page for more discussion. I believe this is revealed in Chapter Four when Lord Yoon discovers the poem Scholar Inhun plagiarized in Nakyum’s painting materials.
And for clarification it’s on: iweb7.mangapicgallery.com/imgfiles/yahwacheop/4/049.png
iweb7.mangapicgallery.com/imgfiles/yahwacheop/4/050.png
Yep, I've seen it, thank you. And thanks for the links, I'll look at them.
So I re-read this and noticed a key detail about the poem written by Scholar Inhun Nakyum treasures that I missed the first time. Lord Yoon, the second he sees it, recognizes it as plagiarism of another scholar/ poet’s work to the extent you couldn’t even call it an homage. Later, when he visits the Scholar in the mountains, he picks up one of Inhun’s books Inhun then snatches away.
I firmly believe Lord Yoon’s trump card over the Scholar Inhun isn’t withdrawing his financial support, but revealing his acts of plagiarism, utterly destroying his future as a scholar of merit or worth. Moreover, revealing the plagiarism will destroy the worth of the poem in Nakyum’s eyes as he believed it to be the original words of a man he admired and loved. And now those words are empty mimicry. Who hates a plagiarist/ copycat more than an artist?
Scholar Inhun may claim he deserves position and power due to his moral integrity — to the point he disparages Lord Yoon’s fortune because of his homosexuality —but he too is guilty of deviating from the "moral" path in claiming other’s work as his own to bolster his reputation. Moreover, his acts of service to the poor are nothing but calculated ambition. He knows that by *appearing* to care for them and teach them to be literate he comes off as kind, enlightened, and generous to any Lord or government official. But he has already admitted to Lord Yoon he does little if any teaching because the place of the poor is in the dirt.
I will laugh so hard if Scholar Inhun’s downfall will be the plagiarized poem he gave as a throwaway to the infatuated child of a kisaeng house — thinking the boy, his art, and the poem were nothing.
I can't even all I can say is BIG BOY BRAINS (⌒▽⌒)
I talked about this on twitter and I'm glad someone else caught that too!! (I've re-read this manhwa 1,000+ times analyzing every detail and hint). But its so fucking funny highkey that he thinks he is all that- but yoon definitely knows he is full of shit and he may just keep him at bay for that gov job just for that.
Omg you're a genius !
Could also explain why he asks the uke not to draw anymore, maybe he's jaleous of the uke's talent.
Damn y'all are smart af
I’d assume the reason he doesn’t want the boy to paint anymore is because he was his student. Nakyum is so vocal about Scholar Inhun’s greatness and is so proud of being his student, one would question if Scolar Inhun’s education extended towards the sexual as well, tarnishing his reputation.
That and I assume he’s *fully* aware of Nakyum’s infatuation and finds it repulsive. It’s clear that once he discovered the paintings, he took advantage of Nakyum’s devotion to get him to promise never to make them again and fled. I’d assume Inhun is concerned about being tainted by association.
So long as he keeps Nakyum from painting and developing notoriety, his paintings will die in obscurity as Scholar Inhun safely builds his own career. However, if Lord Yoon’s reputation falls too low due to his association with the lowborn painter joining him in bed, Scholar Inhun runs into the danger of being unable to use this position to catapult his political future.
This I like. It's going to make Nakyum hate Inhun more and make Yoon more protective of Nakyum.
Honestly... Same. Big boy brains to the max.
Hah, well I’m a woman, but I’ll take the compliment lolol
Haha thank you~ I love analyzing stuff xD
I agree!
That was a great analysis and thank you for sharing it with us.
What it shows also is that the Lord is not just some noble by statut, he's highly educated and knows litterature; he's not only a barbaric spoiled brat of noble, but is rather a stratege that leads his empire. I knew he's sharp, but wasn't attentive to that detail about the poem.
What are your theories about Jihwa's futur actions?
Depends, we could see Jihwa and the Scholar Inhun join forces because Jihwa claims Lord Yoon’s family is falling in social status, but Jihwa isn’t exactly the most reliable source of information as it concerns Lord Yoon. His own hatred and jealousy towards Lord Yoon combined with his lust and desire to monopolize him makes his judgements about him unreliable at best. He’s been caught in these inaccurate assumptions before by Yoon himself.
Moreover, with Scholar Inhun’s disgust at homosexuality and finding the display of Jihwa’s humiliation at the hands of Lord Yoon distasteful, such an alliance is unlikely unless Jihwa truly has the political power and influence to offer him something more than Lord Yoon. Jihwa appears to be Yoon’s equal in standing so unless some deal is worked out with government mucky mucks in future chapters, this seems dubious.
Jihwa outing Lord Yoon as a homosexual wouldn’t accomplish much as he is a known bed partner of Yoon’s and frequent participant in his orgies. At most he’d be laughed at for being a scorned lover who was so poor a partner Lord Yoon chose a low born over him. Like Jihwa himself said, Yoon choosing to bed Nakyum would cost Jihwa face, and he begged him not to sully him further.
So we’re pretty much waiting for Jihwa to present a card of his own worth playing against Yoon because he has a pretty garbage hand at present not worth worrying about. He’s already tried destroying the Nakyum’s paintings. He’d be stupid to hire an assassin after being caught redhanded attacking Nakyum and planting a hired spy in Yoon’s household. Unless Jihwa is hoping to kill Nakyum knowing it will lead to Jihwa’s death at Yoon’s hand in peak yandere drama, his hands are tied for the time being.
That's plausible and totally pertinent. Once again I applause you for your sharp analysis on this particular intrigue.
I was leading, surely like some others, towards a possibility where Jihwa will effectively hire some assassin to kill the painter, knowing his honor is sullied and how he's ravaged by anger, though it was to forget the kind of person is the Lord Right, he has to play this time more more subtul, even though the guy is not very subtul in this domain.
About the opportunist teacher, you're not wrong either to tell he'll only move a finger to go against the Lord only if he has more to gain by collaborating with Jihwa. Though, even he has his weak points (this trump card you mentioned...).
Who knows what Jihwa may resort to?
I'm waiting from Author-Nim to surprise us again.
I’ve been trying to articulate for months what the pacing issue is with this story and, beyond the recent cliche misunderstandings, it’s the play-by-play presentation of time. Instead of focusing on key moments of interest with meaningful transitions, each chapter feels like you’re seeing anywhere from 5 minutes to 3 hours of in-story world time and that begins to make the chapters feel empty or airy because not enough is happening.
There’s nothing wrong with slow romantic burns if there is communication, understanding, and a greater appreciation for the other person as a human being unfolding through the slow march of time. These usually don’t go play-by-play but relevant moment to moment, the pace is leisurely but the scenes shown are vital in the emotional development if the characters at play. There’s nothing wrong with long format if you’re utilizing the chapter time to further the narrative and present new information. Play-by-play is fine when there is little retread ground or cyclical plot and/ or character issues.
There are few things more frustrating as a reader than the Battlestar Galactica problem wherein the middle of every major story arc the protagonist goes through the exact same character meltdown/ arc they went through the season before. It only leaves the audience questioning why we were shown this character arc multiple times if the lessons learned are immediately forgotten by the characters who experience them and have no lasting impact on the story.
TL;DR: There’s no shame in snail pace if every moment is truly relevant or revelatory, there’s no issue with slow burn if the moments are poignant. The issue arises in minute-to-minute story delivery lacking in "meat" and cyclical character issues introduced for drama’s sake/ length but not actual lasting character growth.
A healthy editing of scenes, compression of time, and light culling of the supporting cast would work wonders on this story. It’s a pity because there are promising, heart aching moments — Yuyang’s trip home and their phone call — there’s just too much fat in this particular steak for it to be called a good cut of narrative meat.
*sigh* why can't I like a topic more than once :(
You explained this perfectly! Even before the outrage with the repetition of cliche misunderstandings, this manhwa had a major problem with pacing to begin with. There are so many unnecessary scenes, that DJun could've cut out half the chapters and the story would not have lost anything.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Taku’s ultimate goal was to get both step-brothers as the subject of his camera shoot because the illicit, taboo, and toxic nature of it is so twisted, human, and intimate.
Looking at Taku as an artist who “undresses" his models with his lens (be it his eyes or camera), laying them bare emotionally or physically, he’s already seen through to the truth of Haesoo’s article and his enmeshed relationship with Jowoon. It clearly both excites and inspires him. (See his dogged pursuit of Haesoo as a model and sexual partner, whom he presses for details of losing his virginity to his step-brother during their first sexual encounter).
Haesoo as a subject isn’t complete without his equally dishonest and obsessive counterpart, Jowoon. They both made each other what they are. And I think that’s what Taku is drawn too — this obsessive desire both of them have to control, wound, and hold the other that leaves them distorted and hurting, but ever circling.
Taku’s behavior thus far isn’t that of someone who wants to break that cycle, but of someone who wants to observe and potentially participate. And while I don’t think this is an appropriate relationship between a professional artist and his living subject and makes me very uneasy from an art industry perspective, it’s just twisted enough to match the twisted relationship of the two brothers.
Love and Hate is shaping up to be one of the most literature adjacent webtoons to date for its pacing, character flaws, motivations, and relationships. It’s gonna be *peak* messy and I am l i v i n g for it.
*reads your comment about Taku trying to get the two to be his subject*
I would like to see that ...
This is why I made the prediction that Jowoon would end up doing the photoshoot with Haesoo, Taku is just much too interested in their relationship through subtle questions and behaviours to play it off as a passing interest. There was also the talk in the earlier chapters I believe where Taku talks of photographing Jowoon but it fell through, so there is an interest in having Taku as his model.
Either way all I want is 3P ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
Jowoon as his model*
oops correction
Oh man, right! This is sort of his way in to capture two men he's desired to photograph in the most revealing of ways? I'm surprised Haesoo hasn't realized what Taku's work as an artist is about: unveiling, undressing, and straight-eyed observant voyeurism. Figuratively and literally stripping his models. And that's also what this webtoon is as well, the laying bare of two very complicated people and their motivations and the lies they tell themselves and/ or others?
I am so not expecting this manga to go any predictable direction and I'd honestly be disappointed if it did. They could give me a 3P, a 2P, or a very open 1 1 1 ending and I'd be pleased as punch. My only hope is that the author keeps being as deep/ honest about their twisted co-dependencies rather than rallying behind any of them as a woob or a sociopathic villain or a smol boi who must be protected. They're more fascinating as complex people with "ugly" sides to them.
Gimme some grown ass men with deep seated issues that may never be resolved.
The best of the best comments I've read here so far, even the some of the replies damn. I wasn't able to see that kind of perspective
I feel like multiple manga artists hide the character’s facial hair on the cover because they know it looks like shit and it’ll sell better without it being revealed. So then you make it two pages in, get broadsided by patchy facial hair and bitter disappointment. No one wants nasty ass chin straggle. Hard pass.
??? i mean it's really not that bad of facial hair and until you read his reasoning at the endof this chapter (finding out that he cant be a "princess" like all the girls around him and accepting that he's a male) it kinda makes you understand why he would hide it for his future "prince"
what’s so bad about facial hair?? it’s literally a manga character sis
A good beard is different. This isn’t a good beard. Libeling is a great example of facial hair done right.
Liebling*, my bad, auto correct.
You're right but it's not bad lol I was a bit surprised but that's okay
well i for one, like it. i actually would've clicked on this faster if i knew he had it. everyone has their preferences and opinions and yours is not more correct than anyone else's.
I’m totally beginning to suspect that the real target isn’t the main character, but his step-brother. Taekyung said he read the column, so he knows the article/ short story about being in love with the step-sibling. And the way to him is through the MC.
I’ll be real, Taekyung gives me the heebie jeebies and not in a good way.
Same same. What if K actually likes the stepbro or hates him he wants to destroy his career...
Everyone's cunning we can't really predict what'll happen next the author really did a good job portraying each character's personalities here.
Characters' *
I’m totally beginning to suspect that the real target isn’t the main character, but his step-brother. Taekyung said he read the column, so he knows the article/ short story about being in love with the step-sibling. And the way to him is through the MC.
I’ll be real, Taekyung gives me the heebie jeebies and not in a good way.
This is the most horribly paneled/ paced comic start I have ever seen. It's like whole pages are missing, but they're not. There are whole leaps of days, locations, character introductions without a single establishing shot. You have no idea where you are at any given time. How many days have passed? How did we get here? Where even are we? Does anyone know? Does the author know?!
Colorizing manga in this context, while a cute tumblr pastime, is honestly disrespectful to the medium of manga and the original artist. It is *especially* so since you're trying to issue a translation of their work. You are not the original creator, your color choices and color moments are not what they would choose. You're altering the original work without their consent and forcing those who must rely on your translation to ascribe to *your* interpretation rather than the original.
Moreover, you're disregarding a medium that is BUILT upon black and white compositions and drawings, inserting your vision above the original work. It'd be like colorizing Casablanca, The Maltese Falcon, Brute Force or any other black and white film. Actors, Directors, and other film artists from the black and white period met with CONGRESS to prevent the destruction of their work by those determined to colorize it. It's one thing if the film was meant to be in technicolor or had hand-painted cells, it's another to do it post-publication to a work never intended for it.
Have respect for the original artist and medium and leave the pages alone. Save your colorized pages as one off fanart posts on tumblr for your followers, they have no place in the translation. Never, ever touch an original in this way. It's distracting, disrespectful, and tone deaf to what good translation work looks like.
https://www.nytimes.com/1987/05/13/movies/film-stars-protest-coloring.html
Why are you still here trying to force your opinions on everyone? Everyone already knows you’re just looking for attention because if you really believed in what you’re saying, you would’ve bought the original work instead of being immature and roasted to the point you want to creat multiple accounts to force people your opinions
This is getting boring and if you’re seeking attention, do something that deserves attention
Making multiple accounts to say your opinions is useless
We already know it and we don’t want more of this drama anymore
Ya siéntese señora.
Woah dude, I've never even spoken to you before this moment. Maybe check my profile to see that I've been a user for a while with a bunch of manga read and that maybe ACTUAL INDIVIDUALS disagree with you?
So wait. When MAJORITY of scan groups redraw penises that are WHITED OUT in BL, isn’t that also adding to the author’s original image that wasn’t initially there?? Isn’t THAT disrespectful too?? Isn’t that a scan group’s “ART” too? DISRESPECTFUL? Isn’t doing scanlation DISTESPECFUL period since MAJORITY of scan groups never got the author’s CONSENT in the first place??
Does it matter if you’re a different person when the words are the same
It’s hard for me to believe that this many people are EXTREMELY triggered over some colored pages, while they don’t care about what other teams do, it’s unbelievable that you all are making a big drama over some colored pages
Again, my response to you or both of you is the same
If you really don’t want to disrespect the author, just buy the original work
And please understand that we already know what you think , do we really need to watch this drama going on and not stopping? I don’t even care about anything else anymore, but people are annoyed because you all can’t stop making drama and keep it going because of some colored pages
I understand you dislike them, just get over it
There are much more important things to do in life
Do something else
Idk, read something, cook something, anything but please stop making us see the same thing over and over again
You're right, it is! You're altering the work post-publication with stuff that wasn't there. For all we know, someone should have had a curved dick and you gave them a straight one or vice versa. And I'll be real... most of the dicks drawn by translation groups suck. Nine times out of ten it's a shroom abomination a real dick has nothing in common with beyond a shaft.
The purpose of good translation work is to touch the original as little as possible so the content is as close as possible to what the author intended. Whether or not translation should be done when access to the original is not possible in another language is another discussion entirely.
I'm sorry if respecting an author's work offends you.
There are people who dislike the colored pages and don’t make a drama
They simply suggest ideas for example putting the colored pages at the end of the chapter or they just simply express their opinions instead of making a drama and trying to explain and justify themselves by these stuff which aren’t logical because you’re already reading something which the author doesn’t want you to read and yet you’re talking about disrespecting the author
So you’re respecting author while you think her work isn’t worthy paying for?
Have to agree. It is fan art, as you say and spoils the authors intended aesthetic. I guess we are just used to translating teams being a bit more respectful, and adding their own "stamp" in their credits pages rather than in the actual manga. As pointed out in your post, these comics aren't webtoons, but manga which are generally printed on paper in B&W and have a distinct style.
I'm pretty sure I just expressed my opinion without making drama, the one who made this into drama is you? I don't even know you and given your extreme dog piling of me for posting in support of the author's intended presentation of the work, I don't care to.
And again, whether or not the work should be translated is another discussion entirely separate from the alteration of pages with the addition of color. I refuse to interact with you concerning this point.
Good day.
Do you not understand how contradicting you sound? You’re respecting the author’s work, by reading it illegally? I’ve seen author’s rant & be upset about their work being translated, PERIOD. I’ve NEVER seen an author specifically complain about a scan group’s lettering, cleaning, redraw of penis, coloring, etc. so you’re REACHING big time.
Thank you so much for your reply. This is entirely the point. These are not webtoons, many of which were purposefully designed to be in color. If you wish to interact or add your stamp to the comic you're translating or love, add it at the end of the work in the credits at the end or on your translation webpage/ tumblr as a fanart post. Respect the author and the medium by retaining the original style of the work that was clear in publication.
If you're talking about paying for something you two-faced hypocrite wtf are you doing on Mangago?
YOU are doing what you're accusing him/her of. He/She is clearly in the right. Everyone on here has a right to express their opinions. Nobody here made multiple accounts except you. You're piece of work aren't ya?
Wouldn’t maiming the medium & original style mean not to do scanlation at all? Since it was pointed out that scan groups are erasing “cleaning” everything off & putting their own “art” lettering/typing, font, translation on it? You trying to differentiate “colouring” with what scan groups do in general is entirely contradicting
I have to disagree. Changing the text really isn't detracting from the authors aesthetic or comparable to adding your own coloured pages throughout the text. There was a poll by Renta a while back, where they asked if "western" readers would prefer their staff to add coloured pages, and the result was obviously a big no. Manga is manga, it's B&W, unless the artist themselves adds some special coloured pages for the cover and first pages. If you go on lezhin for example, you can see webcomics translated into a few languages, none of which destroys the authors art. On another note remember how anime for the USA market used to be awfully overdubbed by American voice actors, rather than just subtitling the Japanese as is common today?
Dues ex Chicken Mascot?