The fake activism on this platform is wild. Sexual abuse is only important if its the bottom otherwise it's yes queen when a bottom drugs, kidnaps and shoves his dick in someone's mouth. "It's just love, power bottom yeeeeh!!!" It's so hypocritical because this is just another abuser like all the fucked up tops.
Louder please. Power/dominant bottoms are badass only when they dominate their tops with consent not raping them.
Exactly. There is no power bottom here just an abuser.
EXACTLY LIKE IT'S crazyyy how people change things when it comes to bottom, like a rape is a rape nothing power abt it like dafuq
And that's why I don't partake in conversations about SA on here cz it's full of hypocrites who like to act like they understand the concept when they just pick and choose what's convenient for them.
Now I sound like I might be hypocritical too, you should’ve seen my comment I believe Yuta is a power bottom with his customers or at least in his nature. what I agree is SA/locking up a top isn’t what make it a power/dominant bottom move, or it should be consider an exception from the reverse role. both are worse in its own ways, yet a lot of people think it’s hot when a bottom does the assault.
This comment: https://www.mangago.zone/home/mangatopic/18935733/
Being a power bottom and rapist are not the same. I agree with what you've said but what he's doing to bbes is just fucked up. I don't think anyone is hot assaulting anyone, top or bottom. The reader who think this is it are hypocrites.
I only say Yuta is a dom bottom because of his nature and past. While some individuals think him doing the assault is what earns him a power bottom title. it’s unpleasant.
THANK YOU!
all i saw FB, X and here is like " we stan a power button yea let him suck your cock" bla bla
but if this were reverse people would hate the shit outta the seme.
SA is SA doesnt matter who did it.
//especially for our bebi Seunghyun i would have wished for a more sweet story v.v but lets wait and see how it turns out..
I saw that too. It's so weird and if he was on the recieving end it'd be ww3. All of a sudden its so sexy to force your dirty dick in someone's mouth. I hope baby boy beats him for this.
EXACTLY!
I hope there isn't a chase/regret arc. After this it's either break up or enjoy this freaky shit. I'm so over pretentious redemption arcs. I hope one day we'll read BLS where MCs choose self respect over romance cz wtf is this shit? How do you even make a healthy relationship from this fuckery??
Id prefer a regret/chasing arc over the bottom accepting his fake and/or becoming freaky and playing into the MLs hands … but same, I wanna see more strong willed MCs as well
No yeha same. I don’t think MC accepting all the freaky shit is the right course of action, bc then it seems like something he’s being manipulated into.
That study that showed post pandemic literacy levels are abysmal is so true and this fandom and other bl fandoms should already be case studies. I don't know where critical thinking skills disappeared to when it comes to reading even if it's porn fiction.Most readers don't even read in between the lines anymore. Y'all like parroting terms like manipulation to look like you understand what you are reading when most of you don't do research on the shit. I swear I bet none of you have psychology degrees to back your shit up with years of intelligence. Y'all don't even look up stuff you just say it na hope it sticks.
My question is how is nanjo being manipulated by blondie?? Manipulation always requires a power dynamic of sorts. And bfr someone even says it just because nanjo's a bottom that doesn't mean he doesn't have power let's get that out of the way. The blondie made a deal as a joke and guy just accepted it. He says he likes the redhead but how can you say yes to your cheeks being pounded to 'protect' your beloved?Even if they ain't dating isn't that micro cheating?? Y'all are obsessed with bottoms being victims that you'll pull anything out of y'all's asses. Nanjo is a grown man that could have said no especially to a man he doesn't even like. He wasn't held at gun point. He wasn't coerced. He wasn't even tricked he just accepted a very ridiculous deal and y'all are acting like that's blondies fault. You say blondie is manipulative but don't say red head is manipulative for telling him to have a threesome he didn't want? Is manipulation only applicable when nanjo's the one being penetrated? Manipulation involves power plays, how is the blondie exerting power on nanjo when nanjo can always do what he wants??? Y'all just can't admit that bottoms like him are just stupid.
Blondie has a crush on nanjo. He was being playful and even he thought he'd be shot down when he made that deal so how is he being manipulative???
Another thing y'all need to stop learning about sex from porn. Saying nanjo is being raped is wild. We know he's never bottomed so why would y'all think it wouldn't be uncomfortable even when consent is given?? Penetrative sex for the first time ranges from uncomfortable to pain oftentimes depending on the receivers ability to relax. Nanjo is not relaxed at all through this and it's not blondies or his fault. His body is not used to getting dicked down yet and that's just normal first time things. Penetrative sex is a process tbh it takes time for the body to adjust just like so many things. Also the heteronormative sex positions for the first time in most BLS ain't it. For anal sex spreading your legs is really for the pros. For beginners the legs need to be closed so that the anal muscles can be stretched and open up the hole more so it's less painful during penetration. Doing missionary on an anal beginner is just terrible but that's the creators fault and all other bl creators for their lack luster interpretation of homo sex.
I know I'm about to be called a rape apologist and told to kill myself for thinking like this but do with this information what you may.
"If you don't do X I will do Y" and "If you don't want me to do X, then do Y" is manipulation.
Nanjo think blond head is mistreating red head. Read this twice. Read this again. And again. And rethink about what you've read. Then about what you say.
Blond head say he will mistreat red head if Nanjo doesn't let him f*ck him.
Nanjo let blond head f*cking him to prevent red head to have to deal with blond head and being mistreat.
That's manipulation.
Nanjo doesn't like blond head. He doesn't want sex with blond head. Being forced to have sex with blond head because if not, blond head will mistreat Nanjo loved one's, is r*pe.
You don't need to have a knife on your throat to be manipulated.
You should apply everything you say to yourself.
Redhead takes nanjo to blondie to show him how he likes it. Nanjo thinking blondie is mistreating redhead is his own interpretation of things. He is a closet kink shamer and doesn't want to admit it. Has he asked the redhead if he's being violated? No. Is he making his own conclusion without involving the person that he's claiming to protect? Yes. Is this his own saviour complex driving his actions and not him being manipulated? Yes. He can say no. When has protecting someone meant giving up your own ass? What is on the line apart from the ass of a man that didn't mind disrespecting him like that? Love is not self sacrifice. If he wanted to protect redhead wouldn't telling him to stop fucking with blondie a better solution? Is expressing his discomfort about the whole shit and telling him about the threat not a solution??? All I see is a grown man being abominably stupid. Not everything is manipulation.
Another thing, let's stop enabling emotional fragility and act like it is not imperative that we say no even in tough situations. Being so mentally weak that a ridiculous deal made as a joke can make you feel that giving your ass is the only solution is weird. Saying no was always on the table.
You just prove you don't know what you're talking about.
I'm just going to assume you had nothing as a comeback and leave it at that. Great day.
I don't have time to make big text like you and don't want to entertain immature people like you. Not everything is about win or lose you know? How old are you? 12 yo?
Is trying to insult my age the best you can do?? what a loser!!! I'm not 12 just petty. I do like winning so you're right about that.
like winning but calypso ate you up by being correct as well as mature. you might not be 12 but you act it. you can like a character AND admit that they’re manipulating a situation btw:)
Ate me up where? I don't have to admit to anything I don't believe in just because the masses accept it. I'm not blown by anyone's winds. If not pandering is acting 12 then I'll be 12 for a very long time
acting 12 is being completely stubborn and convinced ur in the right like lmao nanjo is stupid and naive that’s literally the easiest group to manipulate but dw sweetie you can have your own personal opinions! ur just a bit hypocritical and funny
You accept I can have my own opinions yet you want to force me to accept something I don't believe in?? Who's the hypocrite here eh? If I want to change my mind I'll do it at my own time thank you very much. I don't know why y'all forget this is a public forum where we are free to express our opinions. It's not a forum for policing people's thoughts and ideas. Don't try to smother me with your own interpretation of the story.
Projecting much ?
I count no less than FIVE projections at least.
I will make you happy : You win at that
I think I overestimate. It's more like they're 8 yo
Thank you so much for making an appearance.
I called it. Y'all use terms you've heard on the internet to sound intelligent when it just shows you can't read for dear life. I know you have a hard time with paragraphs so practice some bbe. Please look up what projecting means. Where is the correlation in all this? It's so idiotic but I have time it's the weekend anyway
Interesting, you found an excuse for taking so much time writing sh*t. Took you some times!
Not understanding where you're projecting is precisely the point of projecting. That's what's called cognitive bias.
I understand those words are too difficult for you, here is a synonym : mirroring. Or maybe that's more complex for you...
As a last attempt to help you educate yourself :
"A cognitive bias is a systematic pattern of deviation from norm or rationality in judgment. Individuals create their own "subjective reality" from their perception of the input. An individual's construction of reality, not the objective input, may dictate their behavior in the world. Thus, cognitive biases may sometimes lead to perceptual distortion, inaccurate judgment, illogical interpretation, and irrationality."
You’re pathetic and so is your reading comprehension—and it’s ironic you think you’re above the poor post-pandemic literacy rates when yours is in the gutter. Get a life and common sense before you subject yourself to something you, apparently, can’t comprehend. As you said to someone else, good day lmao.
Y’all need to calm down. Nanjo can be stupid and Monkyeon can be manipulative at the same time. Both things can be true at once. And for one, we don’t even know for sure what’s running thru Nanjo’s mind throughout all this. Monkyeon openly admits in his head that he’s taking advantage of Nanjo’s naivety to get what he wants from the situation and that’s OKAY. Characters can be manipulative, characters can be hypocritical and characters can be stupid. There’s really nothing we can do if some people are annoyed by it and some people find it compelling. I personally fall on the latter camp. I love Nanjo to bits but he oh so clearly has a savior complex making him vulnerable to Monkyeon’s scheming. I also really enjoy Monkyeon as a character more so by the fact that I find it interesting that he’s deluding himself. This is not a perfect perpetrator-victim dynamic and one could argue that it isn’t one at all but I think we all need to admit that no side is completely blameless here.
No. Since there is manipulation, it's not ok and it's important to say it. Some people here are young and need to know as earlier as possible that you CAN'T be blamed when you're manipulated. If you're manipulated, you're a VICTIM. And manipulating behavior cannot be justified nor excused.
It being a fiction doesn't give a special treatment. It being a "love story" doesn't make it romantic, acceptable, normal or less manipulative.
You can love blond hair all you want, it doesn't take away the fact he IS manipulative. You can ship for him being with nanjo all you want, it is never normal to coerce someone. It. can't. be. love.
No one is saying it’s not okay that he’s manipulative—they just said he was. Characters are not intended to be something/someone moral the entire time, and I’m sure the author is gonna have either some positive or negative character development. I actually only like the ML here—Nanjo has no personality, and the ML has a terrible one but, he’s interesting, "compelling" as you said. But it was clearly what Tima said— how they don’t seem to understand the concept of manipulation and coercion even though they can use them in a sentence (a stupid sentence, but I digress). How they are willfully obtuse to the fact that yes, it was rape—and even the ML admitted as much a few chapters ago when he said "next time, I’d like to have sex, not rape." And despite my last comment, I’m not upset, I’m more amused. I find it funny how Tima complains of literacy rates and has no media literacy or critical thinking skills in sight.
You’re right and you should say that.
You’re right and you should say that.
.
Girl, sorry about these extra replies, I don’t know what’s going on w/ my tablet, but omg.
I accidentally replied to myself, but this was for you: sorry about the extra messages, my tablet is a mess, and clear,y it’s time for me to get off this site lmao
I’m not saying it’s okay as in it’s okay morally. It’s okay from a story POV and that two sides aren’t completely blameless in this situation. We see, for a fact, that Nanjo is completely wrong about his believes about Seonhwa. He is being a bit dumb and naive and that’s okay with me since I wanna see him grow as a character. Anyways, you shouldn’t be on a porn site anyways if you’re not at the age where you can’t identify a toxic relationship when you see one. And I said I love Monkyeon as a character and not as a person for obvious reasons. I hope you understand.
Understandable. I just wanted to point out that this isn’t a black and white situation. And yeah, I think Monkyeon himself acknowledges that he’s being a piece of shit and the story itself kind of also points this out. I mean it’s not like Nanjo is falling for him even after Nanjo’s body started to react to the sex. This is a compelling story and it works better at the perspective of viewing it in various shades of gray rather than anything.
“It's not a forum for policing people's thoughts and ideas.“ you’re literally so silly please reread your own comment. That’s why there’s 3 people who replied to you. You sound arrogant and pretentious
No one said it’s not okay but Tima’s interpretation does paint Nanjo (the victim) in a way that is COMPLETELY victim blamey (at least it did the way i read it)
This is not really a p*rn site (even if there is sooo much porny stuff right on the home page) but yeah I agree, too young people shouldn't be there. However, when I think about "young", I don't particularly think about 12 yo people but more like 20 yo. This is young, this is the age where you have a sex life but this also is the age where you can be more manipulated because yet too naive and inexperienced. Brain is not even fully developed yet.
Also, I agree this is okay to depict a manipulative character. We are not on Care Bears Land and that's precisely what I like about mangas from last years, they're more modern and realistic! What's not okay is trying to stand up for blond hair (I just can't remember or write his name ), saying he's not manipulative and dismiss reality.
And let's not even talk about victim blaming like @softylily say, the last thing okay here.
Anyway. Tima speech is dangerous and it's a collective responsability to say it, show it and not let it pass. Because young people identify them self and fantasize about those "love story". That's all I wanted to do initially
Haha no problem! You make me laugh and that's a good thing
Daddy chill
I mean, I agreed with you, not sure why you replied that to me but yes, she was very "victim blamey", to say the least.
I don't post here to have my opinions and thoughts policed by random strangers. Calypso insulted me and when I pushed back I'm the problem. The moment they saw I wouldn't agree with them they could have moved along. When I say post pandemic readers don't have comprehension skills I don't just mean inability to understand the story as it is I also mean the inability to understand that other readers will have diverse opinions and that's fine. Y'all can't even acknowledge that. When was thinking like everyone else a flex?? There is beauty in diversity of thought and just because you don't agree with it doesn't give you permission to smother others with how you interpret things. I've not forced anyone to think like me. I said what I said and you interpreted how you wanted which ain't a me problem. Just so you know I didn't start this. It's some of the goons in the comments. I don't often partake in these arguments but calling me 12 and insinuating I'm stupid ain't going to slide with me.I like posting to see if there are other like minded people who think the same. I could care less about the people who disagree with me. You are not the target audience. I am allowed to have my own thoughts and protect them from dilution. To me nanjo is a grown man in a position to choose better. If he really wasn't on some freaky shit he'd be the one to protect his relationship with redhead. Y'all saying he's a victim when he's consciously choosing to cheat(micro cheating)is wild. By some of that logic it's better to fuck your opp than have a conversation with your love one. It's ridiculous. He didn't think through this properly and that's on him. I don't know why stupidity and idiocy is so protected by readers when it comes to bottoms?? Imagine saying you understand the stupidity of a character and you see nothing wrong with that. But am the bad guy for not trying to make being dumb fetch? Okay at least I've seen the things y'all cheer for so your boos really do nothing for me. I think I've vented enough. I hope some dumbass doesn't say ' yOu woUdn'T be posting all this if you didn't care." It's old do better. Thanks for the updates they mean a lot. Bye.
Upvotes**
sorry i think i replied to the wrong person
ok u still don’t understand how ur original comment sounded and that’s okay! have a good one i think we all know this conversation is over. you can’t fix hypocrisy
LMFAOO
I’m not reading all of that, you didn’t even depart your paragraphs babe. Bye.
You are right about manipulation.
But the thing is Nanjo really being manipulated here?
First red head tries to manipulate him by showing he is some kind of poor guy with nothing and recieves gifts.
Second, blondie says he'll have sex, and Nanjo without even talking to red head agrees, is he really that naive? There's a fault in writing because like Nanjo is not supposed to be that naive of a character with how he is displayed.
So we don't know until we go later into the story.
And also I hope you don't think he was raped? Because I don't think that was rape, because consent was present and it hurting is something that might happen.
Don't attack me I'm just saying
Honestly THIS. Love you for calling dem out oml
I don't "think", i'm sure. There is legal definition about r*pe and that's exactly what it is. There is no matter of thinking here. This is not an opinion. Nobody's allowed to disagree on something like that.
I can't comprehend how you can find consent here? Consent under blackmail is not consent. I know it's not said enough and that's why I insist so much on saying how much blond hair is problematic and manipulative.
>>Consent doesn't exist under force, influence, threatening, blackmail, manipulation, etc. Non-exhaustive list of course.
R*pe doesn't need force nor violence to be characterized.<<
Also, we were talking about blond hair, not red hair because we didn't see him so much anymore. But the very start of the story is problematic and the cause of all other problem afterward. Nanjo is a victim all over. From blond AND red hair.
But no, he's not naive. He's obtuse. He's stuck in his interpretation of what his loved one want and don't want. He's convinced red head is manipulated and in danger. He know what he's doing. He's protecting his loved one. He doesn't want to have sex with blond hair, pretty obvious, but he "agree" in order to protect red hair. Blond hair is literaly saying he will do bad things to red hair if Nanjo doesn't accept to see him, to eat with him, and one thing lead to another, if he doesn't accept to have sex with him. Blond hair KNOW Nanjo will do anything for red hair because he's too vanilla to accept his loved one is a masochist. Blond hair use that to have what he want.
So, tell me HOW this is consent, HOW can this not be r*pe. "If you don't do that I will do this bad thing - ok you can do it" is consent?
That's exactly because there is people who think, like you, that a simple "yes" is good enough to characterize consent, that victims have so much hard time to be recognized and r*pist to be sentenced.
I know it's messy but I love that finally there is a story about the two tops fucking and not just chasing a twink.BEEFY DADDIES SUPREMACY!!! I don't know why he introduced nanjo to the blondie just to tell him he isn't his type sexually. I would never introduce such a fine bbe to someone I know fucks everyone. I relate to the blondie cz I too would be cooking plans to completely monopolise that fine daddy. The redhead uke is probably into the blond and will hate to know bbes has been stolen by the man he just likes for the aesthetics. This is the drama I want. It's so refreshing than the typical love triangle shenanigans we see in most BLS.
I have a theory on why SEO in has such a fucked up relationship with sex. Like it's not normal that his default setting when it comes to sex is just sadism especially now that we have a backstory. Considering how the nasty ass step bro is obsessed with seo ins attention even if negatively I would not be shocked if he sexually assaulted him by for forcing himself on him. We see it with disgusting kiss and his insistence to brand himself onto seo in so to me it's not out of the realm of possibility. Also seo in possibly being a sex addict is also a sign cz sometimes victims tend to become hypersexual after sexual assault.
Just so you know I'm not dismissing what we already know that seo ins taste of punishment is because of the desire to hurt yw because yw hurt him with the whole ghosting thing. I don't justify that at all. I'm just adding my own other takes.
Oof I was sort of zeroing in something like this too but I didn’t way to say anything because I take it seriously. Seoin has a drug addiction and is hypersexual. I don’t remember where I saw it but I think drug withdrawals can also cause hypersexuality I am not too sure because it’s been a while since I’ve seen it.
You aren't wrong at all. Hedonistic tendencies such as sex addiction and drug abuse often go hand in hand. They feed off each other and for example when seo in starts having drug withdrawals he just gets super horny. We see it in the early chapters already.
Yes, it’s definitely a pattern I’ve noticed too. He reminds me of Ian from Wet Sand who also displays hypersexual tendencies and has a history with drug abuse. This is where I’ve sort of built an understanding of it lol
Maybe it's because I'm emotional after reading this chapter but I hate that bitch. I don't care if you think it's misogynistic but I hate her. As someone who has watched the evil step mother at work in real life as a child maybe I'm being triggered but this was an adult woman. She had so many ways to alleviate the situation she put an innocent child in. She could have even taken him back to the orphanage ffs but she chose her delusions over the physical and psychological safety of a child. She was so obsessed with the aesthetic of a "happy family" that fucking up a child was a small price to pay. Her husband didn't even want seo in. It was just forced on him and he had to deal with it. Some y'all act like women cannot coerce men into accepting fuckshit conditions they don't want. Even by the small dynamics we've seen she clearly is the one controlling things.
I'm being emotional but as a woman I feel a deep sense of betrayal from women who hurt children and other women. I just can never get past it.
I don't know why people wanted top guy to be with an old man that never wanted him. I get he wanted him but I truly never felt gay vibes from the blond man. He's found love with his beloved, he's happy, let him be. Bl fans need to stop thinking all the characters introduced are gay. I like this ship way more
I mean can you blame them, people jst ship everyone with everything even with someone with 0 to no chemistry or even if they're trying to kill each other
Straight/ bl that's jst happens everywhere.....
And here especially the girl jst came out of nowhere and they suddenly got married, they're jst disappointed after all their cutesy moments and shipping them so hard this happens, but yeah me too I like this ship more... Black hair deserve someone younger...
Atp do people understand the stories they are reading? What is it with all these shit takes like I know comprehension skills and critical thinking skills are on zero with bl manhwa fans but stop bringing y'all's emotional fragility here. These stories are not meant for you and it's very clear you aren't the target audience so please fuck off!!! It's been so normalized to drag stories simply because they don't meet delusions and illusions of some fans but it's so annoying when you yap always instead of just dropping it and investing in stories that are y'all's taste. Bl manhwa fans have severe case of "what about me" as if creators need to cater to all the wants and needs of readers. Be so fucking for real!!! Just leave!!
I don't know why people are obsessed with jae begging crying and grovelling in general. Doesn't that seem fake especially for a man like him who is basically an apex predator? Shouldn't his apology be more of him holding himself accountable and taking responsibility for the the impact of his actions on Dan. An apology is about changed behaviour not performing like you are sorry. I think the whole crying is performative asf in both fiction and reality. I hope y'all don't think tears are apologies cz I tell you so many men fake that shit and those tears you like seeing so much on them end up being a leash you can't escape from cz you are obsessed with seeing him cry to get you.
Same, it would be so out of character for him. I would more expect him to be super possessive of his things (in this case Kim Dan) and toxic levels of jealous over anyone else touching Dan moving forward, like asshole levels of jealousy possibly even blaming Dan for others being interested in him. That's just the vibe of how he's been written so far and if he does a 180 instantly it'll just be shit writing imho, but I could be wrong just have to wait and see.
I'm sorry but I don't know why people want villains to have depth. What you want?? The story is already there. Ml is a psychopath who is obsessed with MC. It's that simple. He will do villainous shit to keep the MC by his side. He doesn't care how fucked up he is. If you stand in his way you'll get it, it's that simple for him. I don't know why y'all thought he'd go easy on the director who's only fatal mistake was showing interest in the MC. I'm sorry for death of director but psychopaths don't care about morality. They are mentally ill so it's often the job of the potential victim to get away. You will not be spared if you are in their line of vision. Remember death is game over for everyone. Don't try to even antagonise them just get away.
because depth makes a character more interesting, more complex, more real. and also as humans we seek to understand abnormal human behavior, nothing is ever black and white, psychopaths can be very different from each other in terms of action and their thought process is fascinating.
i havent actually read this story so i cant comment on the writing, but your first sentence sounds very general speaking, so here is my very general answer.
Some of the best villains in all of fiction don't have depth and they're great e.g Joker, Sosuke Aizen, Ywhach Bach to give a few. We don't need morality to explain killing people for selfish desires.
i never really liked bleach so im not going to go down that rant, but if you want to talk anime/manga, Johan and Griffith are much more interesting villains to me
and joker doesnt have depth? are you being fr?? his character has many different versions, many different interpretations, the evolution and the idea itself of joker has gone way beyond the 60s camp batman show type of character writing.
"We don't need morality to explain killing people for selfish desires."
what does that have to do with having or not having depth? its not mutually exclusive yk.
and dont misunderstand, i like my villains who are evil for the sake of it and nothing more, that can be fun.
but there is a reason why a villain like Hannibal is so compelling and fascinating.
The most iconic joker is heather ledger. Why? Just an unhinged nutcase. Other iterations have depth but the ones where he's just psycho are the best.
well ledger also put on a really really good performance, he truly immersed himself in the unhinged psychotic aspect of the character (and there is also his untimely death forever associated).
i still stand by my words tho,
ledgers joker is fun, but a villain like homelander for example is much more interesting.
i would even go as far as to say homelander is the best villain of the superhero genre tv/movies (but thats also partially due to phenomenal acting).
all in all, characters work within their context, sometimes depth is necessary, sometimes its good ambiguous, sometimes the whole purpose is just evil.
if people are complaining here, maybe something isnt working, i wouldn't put it past a yaoi to have bad writing.