Akaito's Topics (16)

Tbh this aint dark its js shit imo

LMAO two things can be true at once (it is dark and it is also shit).

YOU GET IT YES!!!! oh my god, some actual sanity here, i could cry. i keep seeing responses like “its just fiction” or “why are you reading it if you hate it” but no one is actually addressing the point lmao. its not about the fact that it has noncon or abuse, dark fiction has and always will exist, and thats fine. its the fact that people seem to want to pretend like something horrible wasn’t actually that bad and WE’RE the crazy ones for being like “oh that’s fucked up”. i personally have much more respect for people who just straight up admit they like messed up fiction, instead of those reaching for the stars for an excuse for liking it.
also the people acting like Dan was never raped and its his fault for signing a contract… is actually pretty concerning. but i know it would be exhausting trying to argue with them all so, i just hope for a better mindset for them.

Im not agreeing nor disagreeing (I myself am still unsure of where I stand on the question Im about to ask you, there are many differing opinions online), but this brings up a question.

Most would consider rape sexual coercion via threats, violence, substance use, or withholding things. Jaekung has laid out the terms clearly, and though in a tight position, Dan in no way HAS to say yes. (In fact I dont think I could ever imagine myself saying yes to exchange sex for money… I dont think my family would want that for me either.) Jaekung is a stranger who has the right to decide what he does with his money. Yes, it would be extremely tragic if Dan’s grandma does not receive the proper treatment for her illness. But unfortunately it is not something he’s owed by Jaekung or anyone else. In fact, most people would refuse the offer and find a way to deal with the loss. Dan is in no way FORCED to say yes. Jaekung is inflicting none of Dans financial struggles onto him. It is exchanging money for sex under Jaekung’s stipulations (though does get non/dubcon as he introduces toys). It at its core is prostitution. So this is the question, do you consider prostitution rape? Because they are exchanging their “consent” for money, do you consider it technically non-consensual?

(Im not trying to upset you, or say that you’re wrong for believing thats what it is! Id really just like to have a proper exchange of opinions snd ideas!!!)

Honestly I came to read this Webtoon because a video popped up on my recommended feed talking about how it romanticizes abuse. After hearing the premise I became suspicious of what the video might talk about/how it might talk about it because considering the sheer power differential, this type of relationship NOT becoming abusive would be more unrealistic. I wanted to see for myself what the problem really was—whether it was really romanticization, or if this person just didn't like fiction depicting dark topics period, or if maybe this particular Webtoon was leaving much to be desired, or if it was an issue with how the audience is receiving it...

Reading the first few chapters I was like no, actually, nothing is romanticized thus far—the topic of eroticized rape is a different discussion altogether but the Webtoon itself never really makes light of the situation, except for Jaekyung and Dan themselves. And even then it makes sense for their characters. Of course Jaekyung is the freak doing the abusing so LMAO, but we know that Dan has poor self-esteem and is a bit of a pushover. Of course he feels everything is his fault. Of course he feels indebted to Jaekyung despite the awful treatment. And even despite all that he did, at the beginning at least, acknowledge how awful his situation was.

So does the Webtoon depict abuse? Yes, absolutely. Acting like it doesn't is cope at best and deeply fucking concerning at worse. Does it romanticize it? No, at least not at first. Personally I'd even say it did great with portraying how these situations can come to be and how they play out for a time there. So I can somewhat understand people who might be upset with others portraying as purely a romanticized rape comic. Both its good parts and bad parts are complex and nuanced and it should be treated as such. But on the issue of rape like. No.

To me I would say in all technicality yes it's like. Very complicated. As sexual coercion often is, right. Hoo boy there's like a lot of threads here to unwind, I feel my brain knotting up just trying to think about this HAHA.

To get my answer out of the way first I would say that...consent under capitalism is a shaky thing. To use the simplest example—no, I don't HAVE to go to work to make money for myself. But if I don't work then, put simply it would be very hard if not impossible for me to have my basic needs for living met. I wouldn't be able to afford food, clean water, shelter, and healthcare. I can either work, or I can pretty much just die. Under those circumstances, can it really be said that I have the "choice" to work? Some would say yes, others would say no. I would say no, that's not a meaningful choice that I made truly of my own volition. It's not the same as me choosing whether or not I want to have vanilla or chocolate ice cream, which comes with no heavy consequences no matter what I choose. Or even a more serious decision like what career path I want to pursue. In my particular circumstances, choosing the "wrong job" might fuck me over for a little bit but I wouldn't be damned.

So that's kind of how I see Dan's situation. He may not have been out on the streets YET but he was on the brink. We saw where he was living. We saw that it was about to be demolished. We know his grandma was terminally ill and we know how important she is to him (and as a note, honestly I couldn't see myself doing something like that either but, also, as someone who has lost their grandma only two years ago, who, similar to Dan, had that person as an integral part of my life for so long...who's to really say what I would or wouldn't have done to prolong her life if I had the opportunity?). We know also that Dan had been unable to make any good money because his previous boss basically fucked up his job prospects. So just from that alone, while, yes, Dan didn't have to agree to Jaekyung's terms, you can see how, from Dan's perspective, he would feel he had/has no real choice in the matter, right? To give up such a genuinely life-changing amount of money. Like with no other real viable options, you tell me, would you tell Dan to just say no? And we KNOW Jaekyung knows it's a life-changing amount because of course the first thing that he does when Dan says no at first is to say oh well. Then you don't get to have it. Withholding things, as you said. Yes, it's not something Dan had owned already, but.

To add to the unfairness of it all, Jaekyung is someone with status and also a fucking MMA fighter. There is no reason why Dan wouldn't further feel that he has to comply with his wishes, no matter what they are—he has already experienced someone at a higher status than him (his former boss) fucking over his job prospects and reputation because they have status. HE was the one punished for being assaulted, not his boss. And then with Jaekyung's temper and strength, Dan has every reason to believe that if he doesn't comply he will get his shit rocked (and like, he does! Jaekyung does so repeatedly!).

All this to say me personally, I think it is non-consensual. Dan can't really make any meaningful/reasonable choice here considering his circumstances. On top of that, Jaekyung fully knows this and uses it to his advantage, to cement further ownership over Dan. Even if you don't believe it's rape, there's no question that Jaekyung's behavior is RIDICULOUSLY underhanded and in terrible taste.

Your comment raises important points about power dynamics, consent, and the portrayal of toxic relationships in "Jinx." However, it also includes several strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks that undermine the validity of your argument.

Firstly, acknowledging the unhealthy and abusive dynamics in "Jinx" does not equate to endorsing them. Readers can critically engage with the content without necessarily agreeing with the behaviors depicted.

You mention that Jaekyung's actions constitute rape due to the gross abuse of power and coercion. It is essential to distinguish between different forms of sexual misconduct accurately. Jaekyung's actions involve sexual coercion and manipulation, which are indeed severe and reprehensible. However, legal definitions matter, and it is important to use precise terms to discuss these issues. What you are describing is sexual coercion which is a form of sexual assault. Jinx does not fit the criteria form the legal definition of rape.

Your implication that anyone who doesn't see this as rape is uneducated or lacks understanding is a form of ad hominem attack. It dismisses differing perspectives without addressing the substance of those viewpoints. Constructive dialogue requires respecting differing opinions and engaging with them based on their merits.

It's also worth noting that different readers may interpret the story's themes and dynamics in various ways. These interpretations can be influenced by personal experiences, cultural backgrounds, and levels of education. Dismissing these perspectives outright doesn't contribute to a productive discussion.

If we are to have a meaningful conversation about the issues in "Jinx," let's focus on the specific behaviors depicted and their implications rather than resorting to personal attacks. We can agree that the story involves complex and problematic dynamics without misrepresenting the facts or belittling others' views.

I appreciate the opportunity to discuss these important issues and hope we can continue to do so respectfully.

Are you a bot?

And don't answer me with any logical fallacy shit, I just want to know whether or not to waste my time responding to you.

Your comment contains several strawman arguments and misrepresentations.

Firstly, the phrase "it's just fiction" is often used to highlight that discussing fictional content allows for exploring themes and dynamics that we wouldn't endorse in real life. Engaging with dark fiction can provide a space for readers to confront and process complex emotions and situations safely. Many times it is said because the other person is trying to make it real or equal to real. They trying to make the person wrong for liking this as if it says they support it is real life. It doesn’t.

Secondly, the argument "why are you reading it if you hate it" is about personal choice and recognizing that different readers have different thresholds for what they find acceptable or engaging in fiction. It's not about dismissing valid criticisms but understanding that personal preferences play a significant role in how we engage with media. That person is only harming themselves when they can go and enjoy their lives instead of letting hate control their lives.

The concern about people pretending something horrible isn’t bad and labeling those who call it out as "crazy" is a misrepresentation. Acknowledging different perspectives on the same content does not equate to downplaying serious issues. It’s possible to understand and critically engage with the problematic aspects of a story without agreeing with them.

Regarding the point about Dan and the contract, the story depicts complex power dynamics and coercion. Saying that people are dismissing rape is another strawman argument. Many recognize that Dan's situation involves severe manipulation and abuse. The discussion is about accurately defining these terms, as they have specific legal and social implications. There are people here that don’t use that contract as a point as you are claiming.

It’s important to engage in these discussions honestly and accurately, without misrepresenting the views of others. Constructive dialogue requires us to respect different perspectives and address the substance of arguments rather than resorting to personal attacks or mischaracterizations.

If we are to have a meaningful conversation about "Jinx" and its themes, let's focus on the specific behaviors depicted and their implications, and avoid distorting the viewpoints of those we disagree with.

No, I'm not a bot. I'm here to engage in a meaningful discussion about this topic. If you have specific points or arguments you'd like to address, I'm open to hearing them. Let's focus on the substance of the conversation rather than resorting to personal attacks or deflecting from the main issues at.

If I mentioned logical fallacies, it's because I'm committed to a rational and respectful discussion. Instead of deflecting by suggesting I'm a bot, let's engage with the points I've made. Avoiding logical fallacies is the best way to ensure a constructive conversation.

Also, I do believe that shows you read my other comments as I didn’t use logical fallacy here in this topic until this comment.

I think this is framed to be negative with some misrepresentations.
Jinx is non-consensual.

I understand that "Jinx" features non-consensual elements, but it's important to recognize that non-consensual acts can encompass a range of behaviors, not just rape. For example, non-consensual can include scenarios like prostitution under coercion, which, while problematic, are distinct from rape unless they meet specific criteria.

Addressing the nuances of these terms helps us have a more accurate and meaningful discussion. Misrepresenting the story can lead to misunderstandings and unproductive arguments. Let’s focus on the specific issues at hand rather than generalizing or misinterpreting the content.
I see you leaving out many important details.

Your replies are robotic and lack humanity, so I had to check. Because it's very weird to reply to some of the things I and others have been bring up with an "erm, acksually, you're committing xyz logical fallacy

God fucking dammit, it deleted the rest of my comment. Give me a moment.

To be honest I have no seen someone saying there is no abuse.
For what I know, I don’t know if you are misunderstanding or using a strawman argument.

I wanted to clarify that acknowledging "Jinx is not rape" does not equate to denying the abuse depicted in the story. Many of us recognize the abusive dynamics present in "Jinx," but we also believe it's crucial to accurately describe the nature of that abuse.
Saying Jinx isn’t rape does not change the abuse Dan endured. It is just labeling the abuse correctly.

Non-consensual acts can encompass a wide range of behaviors, including coercion, manipulation, and other forms of abuse that may not meet the legal or conventional definitions of rape. For instance, prostitution under coercive circumstances can be non-consensual without being classified as rape.

Critiquing the story for its portrayal of toxic relationships is valid, and we agree that such dynamics should not be romanticized. However, misrepresenting the specific nature of the abuse can lead to misunderstandings and unproductive discussions. Let's strive for accuracy and honesty in our discussions to ensure a constructive dialogue.

You could ask me why instead of assuming I am bot. No bot would behave like this. I am actually giving you replies not something off the wall.
It is not weird to call out people or saying they are using logical fallacies when they are using them.

I will address some of your other arguments later but I have to get across how psychopathic you sound when you argue this way. You're not making yourself look good, you're not making your arguments look good, and you're not making other fans of this Webtoon look good. And if you think it's fallacious for people to care about how an argument is presented—yes, it is. Sorry. That's how humans work. That's why we have Pathos, Logos, and Ethos.

You aren't even bringing up any real counterarguments, for one, just saying that I'm wrong and that I should focus on specific issues at hand. What specific issues, then? What the hell are you even concerned about here, then? Besides making sure that the Webtoon is accurately represented? I don't see you arguing about the things the Webtoon handles well OR poorly, you're just calling other people illogical and irrational for their dislike of it.

Like you keep bringing up this whole thing with the legal definition of rape. Why actually are you doing this? Tell me, if I wanted to recommend or talk about this Webtoon to someone, do you think it would make much of a difference if I said, "This Webtoon features rape" vs. "This Webtoon features sexual assault?" Or even more specifically, since that's the name of the game for you, "This Webtoon features sexual coercion and a wildly imbalanced power dynamic between characters, resulting in a toxic and abusive relationship"? Are these serious enough differences/misinterpretations to you? Tell me, if someone close to you, a friend or a family member, told you that someone touched their genitals without their consent, but nothing else really happened, and they expressed their discomfort and feeling of violation—would you go out of your way to split hairs about whether or not they were sexually assault or raped by the legal definition? Or would you do your best to acknowledge their feelings and comfort them and proceed from there?

Even you agree that at the end of the day, what Jaekyung is doing to Dan is, by your own words, "severe and reprehensible." So in this situation where rape/sexual assault/sexual coercion/sexual abuse are synonymous, interchangeable, what REALLY is your purpose in distinguishing between how people are referring to what's happening? Is it to make a point about severity? Because no one here is talking about the law. And even if we were—what law? WHOSE law? American law? Korean law? What do you call it when someone penetrates and ejaculates inside of you without your consent? Because even with the strictest laws defining rape in America, that would fall under it. Of course you factor in Dan's "choice" in the matter and the fact that they're two men and things get shaky but like, seriously. What is your actual point.

My point in saying all of this is that on the "legal definition of rape" thing in particular (but, to be clear, some of your other arguments come across this way, too) it looks and feels as if you ARE in fact trying to downplay the severity of what is going on in the Webtoon, or else the legal definition would not even be a topic of discussion you bring up, because it ISN'T and WASN'T EVER a topic that I nor anyone else (as I've seen so far) has brought up. That taken in with the broader context of other people just plain stating, with no explanation as to why they think this is the case, or with a very SHODDY explanation as to why they think this is the case, that there's no rape in the Webtoon makes you and your argument look downright AWFUL. That taken in with the examples I've provided above, of the real life fucking implications of what you're doing here, makes you look psychopathic. Yes, it's fallacious! Fine! Then don't bring up irrelevant arguments! I don't know what fallacy that one's called but it sure is a fallacy! Christ.

I read your first two paragraphs. I am not arguing. I am sharing information with you and trying to have a conversation. I don’t came across the way you framed it.
I have brought up many counters but you just want to discredit others. You assume I am a fan to attack other people.
Your criticism of me isn’t accurate. Genuinely people would not do what you just did. That is not a conversation. That shows you know you are wrong and trying to discredit me when you claim there is nothing there….

1: Never said that acknowledge the dynamics means an explicit endorsement. I even prefaced my statements saying that it's okay if you're into this shit + enjoy it as long as you understand what it is you're engaging with, and that I myself enjoy this shit.

2: Fuck off with the semantic game, you know what I mean, everyone knows what I mean, we're not talking about the law, we're talking about what's being depicted and how it is being received. Personally I'd prefer people to have an "inaccurate" understanding of what's happening here than no understanding at all (saying it isn't rape/it isn't violent).

3: Granted, I haven't gotten far into the comments here, but so far I haven't seen anyone present any real or substantive explanation as to why they believe that what Jaekyung is doing to Dan doesn't constitute rape. I'm not dismissing differing perspectives because I have not actually seen any real ones. Furthermore I came to the conclusion that people who aren't viewing this as rape may just have not been taught about the way coercion can figure into (non-)consent, because I am an American citizen, and I know that sex ed here is shit, and I know what the dominant and prevailing attitudes about rape are/tend to be. It was an assumption on my part, one that I don't believe it be unfounded, and it was not made necessarily to attack people personally, but to attack the systems that be that allow for people to come to the conclusion that any "yes" in any scenario means consent. My fucking bad about not being abundantly clear about that.

4: I know different people are interpreting the story and its themes differently. See the above.

I skimmed this one. It is illogical to think using c
My comments are objective reporting. There is no opinion.There are no “arguments”

While toxic, abusive, and problematic, Jinx does not meet the criteria for rape if all details and facts are considered.

Saying Jinx is not rape doesn’t minimize any abuse Kim Dan has endured. Jaekyung's actions are deeply problematic and morally reprehensible. My focus on differentiating between sexual assault and rape is based on legal definitions, not an attempt to downplay the severity of the abuse. That is a strawman argument saying that does downplay the severity of what is happening. That is your opinion because you believe it is rape. You can believe that but legally it is not rape. Saying something is or isn’t does change the abuse.
Why do you think “Jinx has no rape” removes the abuse Dan endured. It doesn’t.

To me you are claiming Jinx has incest and I am saying it is not. Then you say that removed all the abuse????? You represent a logical fallacy. Saying it is sexual assault, sexual coercion but not rape doesn’t change the abuse he endured. This is an argument made by a hate group that only wants to fight and argue to where they are degrading people who are not like them. I am not interested in this situation and that is presented in your comments to me. You are changing my words to attack.

1. I have to read my comments again to see where this is coming from.
2. I am not playing any games. Please stop assuming I am.

What is depicted here is sexual assault, sexual coercion, and abuse. You have it backwards. If people were taught they would know this is not rape. Some of the ones claiming it is rape thinks attempted rape is rape. My information comes from a rape crisis counselor and a few others. I use the legal term as that debunks rape in Jinx. While you can see it as rape but it is not.
You are dismissed and attacking people saying it is not rape because they understand rape and this story. You are saying “see rape or be uneducated”. That is wrong. You are dismissing the it is sexual assault pov and trying to make that view look like it doesn’t see any abuse because you think they are ignoring the rape you see. That is wrong.
If you know they interpreted the story and themes differently why are you trying to make them look uneducated and wrong. They are right from the legal perspective and from the actual story details.

I'm not saying it's NOT sexual assault or that it's NOT sexual coercion or that it's NOT abuse. All of these things are happening. Yes, those are the more specific terms. I do not take issue with people pointing those things out SO LONG AS THEIR INTENTION IS NOT TO DOWNPLAY THE SEVERITY OF WHAT IS HAPPENING. Because the truth is people DO have a hierarchy of what they think constitutes "real rape" vs. stuff that can/should just be dismissed as either not a big deal or even as entirely consensual. I am concerned with their mindset towards these things and how it may impact them and the people around them if they were to ever find themselves or someone else in such a situation. THAT is what I'm principally concerned with, and THAT is why I find it weird to split hairs over the specific language being used for what happens to Dan throughout this Webtoon. I am concerned that because some people are, for whatever reason it may be, refusing to acknowledge it as rape, that perhaps they are coming to that conclusion because of the element of coercion/because Dan "agreed" to Jaekyung's terms. Not because they want to specifically term it as you are defining it. Or, worse, that they're coming to that conclusion because Dan grows to "like" what's happening, or because he falls in love, or because Jaekyung treats him nicely sometimes...

Not everyone believes this but me personally I think there is a spectrum of "right" and "wrong" when it comes to interpreting art. All artists have their intentions when making their art, their themes they want to explore. And all stories only contain so much evidence of certain interpretations that can be claimed before you're beginning to make a stretch about what is or isn't happening in them. Besides that, like I said, I'm not meaning to insult people's general intelligence when I say, someone who reads this and comes to the conclusion that there's not rape/sexual assault/sexual coercion/abuse/etc must not have been educated. I am speaking specifically, again, about the tendency for American sexual education in particular to be wholly inadequate in properly teaching people about these topics with, again, the assumption that people are interpreting the events of the story as NOT being rape/sexual assault/sexual coercion/abuse (another reason to just call it rape: it's fucking easier than typing all this shit out over and over again).

I'm once again asking you which law you're specifically citing anyway. American law? Korean law? What is YOUR working definition of rape and how does it differ significantly enough from sexual assault that the term ought not be used altogether?

Like instead of just saying I'm wrong, why don't you supply me with the specific story details? I don't claim to be perfect. I was reading the Webtoon with a close eye and I'd like to think myself generally pretty good with reading and interpreting things, but I might have missed something. You tell me specifically why you think that this is sexual assault but not rape, what evidence from the story proves this, and why you think this is a meaningful distinction to make when it comes to day-to-day conversation of this topic.

Also earlier you said something about how many actions fall under non-consensual activities or something like that. So you understand what we mean when we say “umbrella term” then, right? I was/am using rape as an umbrella term here. I mean again I don’t see any meaningful distinction between the word rape and the phrase sexual assault, you will really have to enlighten me on that one, but like, yeah. That’s why I was like “oh! that’s weird and problematic” seeing you, amongst others, dismiss it as being rape altogether.

hm, i can see where you’re coming from, but the thing is i feel like anyone can see the author is showing the (many) noncon scenes in a graphic and sexual light that is supposed to be arousing. is the relationship romanticized? i guess we’ll have to find out next season. but as for the noncon, its clearly sexualized and made to look hot and thats what gets to me.

Yo, you blocked me or something? I’m asking you to give me a counterargument or “report facts” as you say you’re doing (you’re not, when you say that someone is wrong on their interpretation of the text/their interpretation is lacking or ignoring evidence, you are making an argument for a different interpretation of the text that you think is more correct). I want to know how you’re seeing this and why. I’ve explained myself thoroughly.

That’s fair, I can’t argue against that at all, really LOL. I just learned the term eroticized rape yesterday, I didn’t really have a term before for how to describe how…well, yeah, the rape scenes are made to look sexy.

But to me personally even despite how explicit they are and, yes, how eroticized they are, it’s hard for me to really like…feel that what’s happening is sexy, knowing all the circumstances around what’s happening each time, y’know? Even as someone who enjoys (FICTIONAL) rape/non-con scenarios. Unless I completely turned my brain off, which I did later on the more the Webtoon became Stupid, I could not personally stop thinking about how fucked up the situation was, I just felt so awful for Dan, man

But I think this starts to raise questions about how to depict these types of things in the first place. I’m not saying the author is right by any means per se (especially if it’s really the case that they genuinely believe they’re just creating merely a toxic relationship and not an abusive one full of rape djfhfh) but it’s also like, I guess I’m wondering, do you think it’s wrong in all cases to explicitly depict a rape scene? Or is it just in this instance, because it’s eroticized? For me there’s an extent to where I’m like, I kind of like that it’s explicit, because it shows exactly how violent Jaekyung is—it doesn’t beat around the bush about it. We know precisely how awful he is, we see how his abhorrent, controlling behavior of course extends to the bedroom. But at the same time we of course could’ve just gotten the aftermath and experienced a somewhat similar effect, maybe an even more intense one (because then what exactly happened would’ve been left completely up to our imaginations as readers, and that can provide its own type of horror).

To expand on this more because I’m realizing things about myself and how I read these things—I think many things can be true at once, and also, that just because the author Intends something or Does something doesn’t necessarily mean that they will automatically be Successful at doing that thing in the text.

For me it is both true that the rape is made to LOOK erotic AND that it’s not ACTUALLY erotic. There was an incident with a certain animation that I think is similar to this one, in that people were critiquing how the character’s sexual assault was being portrayed. They thought it was being romanticized and all that stuff. And out of context, yes! It does very much look that way. Of course I eventually went to investigate though and, similar to with this Webtoon, the context BEFORE that scene was so horrific that it made the actual scene feel even worse and not sexy at all to me (not in an “the author handled this badly” way but in a “the author handled this very well, actually, and has thus made me feel sufficiently uncomfortable and disgusted by the events on screen” way).

So to me I’m like well, it’s not great if the author doesn’t recognize what they’re doing, but at the same time, to me they haven’t done anything wrong (in the beginning, at least) with regards to the portrayal of rape. They may have intended it to be sexy but I don’t find it sexy/I find it very difficult to find it sexy, because I know too much about the characters and the context in which the assault is taking place to just turn my brain off and enjoy it as something sexy. Not only that but Dan of course is constantly reminding the reader of how awful it is for him, before, during, and after the experience. We see how it’s impacting him long-term. It’s just hard for me personally to find that sexy at all.

If we got like zero context to all this stuff or we didn’t see a “natural” progression to where we are now, with Dan becoming increasingly malleable to Jaekyung’s will due to the continued abuse, that would be one thing. But it’s like. I know too much LMAJDHDHFBD

It’s the same way that this author can intend to use the rare instances where Jaekyung is “nice” to convince me that he’s not irredeemable and I can just not believe them because they’re doing badly at it. The same way a certain other author can supposedly intend to show that a character is gay but can leave no real evidence of it, again, failing to convince me (and making me doubt their so-called intention altogether). It looks sexy but 9 times outta 10, it doesn’t actually Read as sexy.

lol you’re good. i actually have close friends who love super dark and twisted fiction, so we’ve talked about this and it really does come down to the portrayal and atmosphere of a story. it gets a little complicated to explain but i’ll try my best.

so for me, i have read dark stories like killing stalking and though it was intense and awful, it never felt as though it was supposed to be seen in any positive way. the intention is made clear without the author even having to say anything. but with Jinx, things feel different: the noncon is drawn out in a erotic way, the author will put little sparkles or colors floating around when something “cute” happens, and the atmosphere gets very lighthearted and silly at times and it doesn’t even feel like the last chapter Dan was terribly abused, like it never happened or its not a big deal.

as for the explicitly of the noncon, i think it depends on how it’s portrayed. i’m not sure if you've ever read Ouroboros but it’s another dark story about a kidnap/rape victim and their trauma. it has explicit scenes but i never once felt like the act was meant to be hot. so it’s definitely possible to do an explicit rape scene but not make it erotic.

sorry if that made no sense, it’s difficult to put into words!

No no you’re making perfect sense and I agree with you! Haha I wanted to make sure we weren’t having a fundamental disagreement because there would be some people who are like “no you can’t/shouldn’t depict these explicitly at all” and that would’ve had to be a whole other discussion but nah I agree with you completely, the framing and atmosphere contributes a lot to these scenes and how they’re ultimately received by an audience. Like I said I can’t argue that the scenes aren’t meant to be hot, that would be me. Lying and/or not having eyes You can see how much more detailed and shiny everything gets during those scenes and then of course focusing on the genitals instead of y’know. Dan’s face or something (and even then it could be focused on the damage Jaekyung would realistically be doing but then THAT starts circling into trauma porn, which is another thing that’s…shaky).

Killing Stalking is an interesting one to bring up though because I mean, I haven’t read it in a while honestly so I can’t say my memory of it is super intact, but it felt like certain scenes in there were kind of drawn to be sexy. I don’t know why I’m thinking about that one scene where they’re in the bathroom I think? But in which case I’d say the same thing of like, yeah, it might look that way but with the added context it doesn’t necessarily come across that way/it doesn’t feel as ambiguous as it could be to me personally. I think there’s a degree to which there’s like…a spectrum of right to wrong when it comes to this and part of it will have to do with audience reception/interpretation. Because, speaking of Killing Stalking, we both know you as an author can go out of your way to depict something perfectly and still have the audience come at it in a completely unintended way (a la shipping Yoonbum with Sangwoo, finding their bond to be genuinely romantic).

AGAIN NOT SAYING THIS AUTHOR IS HAVING THEIR INTENTIONS MISREAD by their own words it seems they think they’re merely writing a toxic relationship (they are, it’s just that. it’s also much much much more than that) just that audience reception and author intention are/can often be completely different and for a variety of reasons…

LMAO yeah i agree with you. i do think that framing is majorly up to the author, but also i know that even if the author were to perfectly show that something is wrong and not appealing, there will always be some people that perceive it differently. novels, webcomics, shows, doesn’t matter, there will always be a different interpretation since that’s how stories and art work.

and tbh it has been a hot minute (years) since i finished killing stalking so i may be wrong lol. but i do remember it being mostly horror based and not focusing so much on the sexual aspects.

i also wanna say, personally, my view on Jinx would have been different if it was like just a PWP. those types of reads are purely for smut purposes and while i don’t typically enjoy noncon or dead dove, its a whole other vibe when its like “oh this is just porn okay”. versus when there's a whole story being advertised and getting the reader emotionally involved, i think “what is the endgame here? what kind of story are you telling? does the plot and characters actions make sense? is the atmosphere consistent?”

at the end of the day though, i know authors can write or draw whatever they want and i don’t wish harm on them nor readers that enjoy the content (even if it squicks me out of existence). i WILL always judge the content itself though, but that’s probably a given lol.

YESSS THIS. I feel like a lot of discourse surrounding the depiction of taboo/dark themes wouldn't exist or be as messy as it is if people stopped to ask themselves whether or not the work is meant to be taken seriously or to be pure entertainment. I'm not saying you can't criticize porn or anything like that but the expectations there are completely different from a story that is taking itself seriously and meaning to explore something the author finds meaningful. That stuff is for just that; entertainment. People generally know and understand that when they're going into it, it isn't something they're going to continue carrying with them after they're done with it.

So similarly to you I wouldn't feel any type of way about Jinx if it were a PWP indeed. There wouldn't be much to analyze 'cause it would've just been pure jack-off material. I would've completely suspended my disbelief and expectations for good and responsible storytelling. It's part of why, to a degree, I think I'm still offering some levity with regards to the rape...because like. The author is just not serious about those scenes. They should be but they aren't. They're meant to be there for people to get horny over more so than to really contribute to the story and its characters and its overall themes in any real meaningful way.

Alas. It wants to be taken somewhat seriously and it wants to be taken seriously as a love story specifically when it...could've been great if it Weren't trying so hard to be that, and as such, it suffers for it, and risks perpetuating turbo weird shit for it.

As they were able to tag me I didn’t block them. I have a real life and that comes first. I find how they respond was concerning and sus. I wanted to read everything over again.
To address the issues with Aka's comments.
---

I understand their concerns, and I want to clarify my position. My intent is not to dismiss or invalidate the experiences and feelings of those affected by the story. I fully acknowledge the emotional impact that "Jinx" can have on readers, especially those who have experienced abuse or trauma.

My focus on terminology stems from a desire for precision in discussions about sensitive topics. Using accurate terms helps ensure that conversations are clear and constructive. However, I recognize that this could come across as detached or unempathetic to some people, especially in the context of emotional discussions. It is simply not the case.

It's essential to validate the feelings and experiences of those who feel impacted by the story's content. I hope we can continue to engage in a way that respects and acknowledges everyone's perspectives.

---

**Addressing Aka's Main Post:**

"Aka's main post stated, 'I need to see the story to completion before I make any final judgements.'
-From other comments, it seems this isn't accurate.
, 'But the fact that I am seeing several people in these comments trying to argue that what Jaekyung is/has been doing throughout this Webtoon WASN’T rape is deeply, deeply concerning to me.'
-This does not accept other logical perspectives and makes them wrong without addressing the substance of those viewpoints.

"The statement, 'That is the gross abuse of power being used to coerce someone otherwise completely unwilling to have sex with you—that is rape,'
-depends on the details and circumstances. In this case, it is sexual assault."

"’Some of y’all aren’t talking about this as if it is, some of y’all aren’t applying nuance to this for the sake of having a worthwhile conversation.' -This seems like a judgment and a lack of understanding of other people’s comments.

"It’s genuinely scary to me that some of you seem to be unaware of the precise nature of what is going on here,”
-implies making others feel wrong for having a valid standpoint."

"'Not that you’re reading the Webtoon, but that you don’t seem to be understanding it. It’s emblematic of many cultures’ poor sex ed and poor attitudes towards sex and consent. Because I don’t think anyone who has been educated enough should be able to walk away from this being unable to distinguish between rape and actual, consensual sex, especially when it is as clear-cut as it is here.'
-This suggests others are uneducated for not believing "Jinx" includes rape, which is disrespectful. Their comment makes it binary (rape or consensual sex) where it is not binary.

"'I DO have to worry about how you guys would react to hearing someone in your real life in this kind of situation, or, and I hope it is never, ever the case, YOU being in this situation. Would you excuse it? Because you “agreed” to it?'
-This is provoking an emotional reaction and suggesting that differing perspectives mean excusing abuse, which is a strawman argument.


The first comment and other comments dismisses differing perspectives, making them wrong without addressing the substance of those viewpoints.


**Aka's Comments to Me:**

"'Are you a bot?'
This was disrespectful and an attempt to discredit me.

"'And don't answer me with any logical fallacy shit, I just want to know whether or not to waste my time responding to you.'
-This showed condescension and that they have read my other comments to other people.

"'Your replies are robotic and lack humanity, so I had to check. Because it's very weird to reply to some of the things I and others have been bringing up with an "erm, actually, you're committing xyz logical fallacy."'
-This is rude and dismissive. It also goes against reality because many people calls out other people.

"'I will address some of your other arguments later, but I have to get across how psychopathic you sound when you argue this way.'

This is an ad hominem attack, a baseless personal attack. What arguments?

"'You're not making yourself look good, you're not making your arguments look good, and you're not making other fans of this Webtoon look good.'
-More baseless personal attacks.

"'If you think it's fallacious for people to care about how an argument is presented—yes, it is. Sorry. That's how humans work. That's why we have Pathos, Logos, and Ethos.'

This dismisses the importance of logical consistency and what I am doing.

Tell me, if I wanted to recommend or talk about this Webtoon to someone, do you think it would make much of a difference if I said, "This Webtoon features rape" vs. "This Webtoon features sexual assault?" “
-yes there is a difference. Someone with a sex ed would know this and not ask it.

“Or even more specifically, since that's the name of the game for you,”

-baseless accusation. What game?

“"This Webtoon features sexual coercion and a wildly imbalanced power dynamic between characters, resulting in a toxic and abusive relationship"? “
-some one with a sex ed would know the question to that followed is a profound yes.

“ Tell me, if someone close to you, a friend or a family member, told you that someone touched their genitals without their consent, but nothing else really happened, and they expressed their discomfort and feeling of violation would you go out of your way to split hairs about whether or not they were sexually assault or raped by the legal definition? Or would you do your best to acknowledge their feelings and comfort them and proceed from there?”
- this is no reason to be said. It was wrong to do this. It is a strawman argument too

“So in this situation where rape/sexual assault/sexual coercion/sexual abuse are synonymous, interchangeable, what REALLY is your purpose in distinguishing between how people are referring to what's happening?”

-someone with a sex ed would know they are not synonymous or interchangeable. Rape and sexual coercion is a form of sexual assault but they are all different.

“Is it to make a point about severity? Because no one here is talking about the law. “
-I am and it is showing it is not my opinion. I am saying something factual.
“ What do you call it when someone penetrates and ejaculates inside of you without your consent? “
-this is rape but that isn’t in Jinx. By saying that is rape does not say that equals to rape being in jinx. That actually debunks rape in Jinx.

“Because even with the strictest laws defining rape in America, that would fall under it.”
- no. That is false.

- “Of course you factor in Dan's "choice" in the matter and the fact that they're two men and things get shaky but like, seriously. “
-that is disturbing. One it is his choice, not his “choice” and second they being two men don’t change anything. What is the point here?

- What is your actual point”
That shows my points are not acknowledged.

"'You aren't even bringing up any real counterarguments, for one, just saying that I'm wrong and that I should focus on specific issues at hand.'
-I have not said they were wrong in a view point ; I am distinguishing between rape and sexual assault factually. Now I don’t have a counter arguments when I am not arguing. I am just presenting facts.

This taken in with the examples I've provided above, of the real life fucking implications of what you're doing here, makes you look psychopathic. “

This is trying to make the truth wrong by attacking me with baseless accusations. What is the goal here. Trying to be right in an opinion even if it harms others and makes them wrong to have only one valid opinion. This is a story not real life that is why I said that one comment that was vastly misunderstood. This person is deflecting. “1. Never said that acknowledge the dynamics means an explicit endorsement. I even prefaced my statements saying that it's okay if you're into this shit + enjoy it as long as you understand what it is you're engaging with, and that I myself enjoy this shit.”
-if they were not busy attacking a version of me that doesn’t exist and making me an opponent they would see what I said was acknowledging what they said. It was an attempt to get on solid ground and show I understood them
“. 2: “Fuck off with the semantic game ….] There is no game. Baseless accusations. I am defending the people they make wrong by trying to force rape to be the only valid opinion. Those people saying it is not rape is accurate. Those people saying it is not violent that is their opinion and they could explain it. Their opinions are valid. However those two statements are not the same. It is a strawman argument to make those two statements the same thing.

3: “Granted. “
- people can present people who is closed-mind real and substantive reasons why they know that what Jaekyung is doing to Dan doesn't constitute rape but they would dismiss it like they are doing with me. Aka is dismissing differing perspectives and it is thir opinion that they not actually seen any real ones that is dismissing others vaild opinions. Furthermore I came to the conclusion that people who are viewing this as rape may just have not been taught that sexual coercion is sexual assault and non-consent, has a scope to where not everything non-con is rape.

4: “I know different people are interpreting the story and its themes differently.“ yet they are dismissing everyone’s perspective than their own and saying they are uneducated as they show they are misinformed on the subject.

“s. I do not take issue with people pointing those things out SO LONG AS THEIR INTENTION IS NOT TO DOWNPLAY THE SEVERITY OF WHAT IS HAPPENING”

Firstly, distinguishing between rape and other forms of sexual misconduct is not the same as dismissing the severity of those actions. An attempted rape is indeed a serious form of sexual assault, but it is legally and definitionally distinct from rape. Acknowledging this difference does not minimize the harm or wrongness of the behavior; it is simply about being precise with terms.

Would you call a square a rectangle just because they both have four sides? Exact terms matter to ensure we understand the distinctions between different concepts. I am done vs I am finished. But refer to the same thing and used interchangeably. But to be more specific, It is cakes, bread, and food are done, we use finished when we eat something.

“What is YOUR working definition of rape and how does it differ significantly enough from sexual assault that the term ought not be used altogether?”
It is not my working definition. This is not their opinion vs my opinion. This is them vs facts. Don’t ask for my opinion or my working definition as you will not get it. I am objectively reporting. This person is dismissing what I say and trying to change my comments for me to argue with them.

“Like instead of just saying I'm wrong, why don't you supply me with the specific story details? “

While it is not rape, I accept people viewing it as rape. Where you are wrong no story details will show how you are wrong. The people who you are making wrong isn’t a story.
My friends and I have read the story countless times and analyzed many parts.

“You tell me specifically why you think that this is sexual assault but not rape, what evidence from the story proves this, and why you think this is a meaningful distinction to make when it comes to day-to-day conversation of this topic.”
Should I try to talk to them? with how they are assuming making me their enemy and accusing me of baseless claims?

There is a meaningful distinction between the word rape and sexual assault. Rape is a form of sexual assault but not all sexual assault is rape.

“dismiss it as being rape altogether.”

We are not dismissing it being rape. Your opinion it is rape when it is not rape. It is odd how you are dismissing others to be right about having rape in the story that doesn’t have rape.


I’m asking you to give me a counterargument or “report facts” as you say you’re doing (you’re not, when you say that someone is wrong on their interpretation of the text/their interpretation is lacking or ignoring evidence, you are making an argument for a different interpretation of the text that you think is more correct). “
- that is using strawman arguments here. I am objectively reporting and standing with facts. They are the one saying people are wrong for not seeing rape. They made it sound like they were uneducated without understanding them. This person just deflected their behavior on to me. I am not making an argument for a different opinion of what I think it more correct. Don’t make it about me. What is actually happening is I am telling them why those people have valid points and the facts are on their side and the are in the wrong but make sure them wrong or uneducated for not having their opinion.

“ I want to know how you’re seeing this and why. I’ve explained myself thoroughly.”
Would anyone be open or interested in talking to some that is treating people like this? l

**Clarification on Terminology:**

Again, there is a meaningful distinction between rape and sexual assault. Rape is a form of sexual assault, but not all sexual assault is rape. Distinguishing between them ensures clarity and avoids misunderstandings. It is not about downplaying the severity but about being precise. Terms matter to ensure accurate understanding.

**Addressing Strawman Arguments:**

‘Interpreting the events of the story as NOT being rape/sexual assault/sexual coercion/abuse' is incorrect.
-It is about using the correct terms. Saying it is not rape but sexual assault and abuse is accurate and not what they just said. Their perspective on this is not dismissed, but imposing it on others as the only valid view is concerning. How they are attacking me is concerning.

**Respectful Engagement:**


I hope we can engage in a respectful manner, acknowledging different perspectives and maintaining precision in our discussions. Understanding and empathy are crucial in these conversations.

It's why at the end of the day I can't even find it in myself to hate the story itself all that much. I can only really be disappointed. I don't know if or really feel like it in and of itself is doing Great Harm to people merely by existing, as I said, I'm more so worried about how people are receiving it and how a lack of understanding of sexual coercion due to our (America's) poor sex ed is playing into that, so I can't blame this Webtoon alone. But I do feel the Webtoon is just...wasted potential, gone stupid for no good reason.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/sexual-coercion#examples


“ Sexual coercion is when a person pressures, tricks, threatens, or manipulates someone into sex. It is a type of sexual assault because even if someone says yes, they are not giving their consent freely”


Examples of sexual coercion
The page gives 8 examples. The last one is clarified to be rape. The rest is sexual assault.


https://florinroebig.com/sexual-assault-guide/

Is Sexual Assault Considered Rape?

Rape is a form of sexual assault. However, not all forms of sexual assault will be considered rape. Rape is penetration of the anus or vagina, in any capacity, with any object, that is unwanted or forced.

Types of sexual assault include any unwanted sexual activity:

attempted rape
fondling
unwanted sexual contact or touching
forcing victim to perform sexual acts (i.e. oral penetration or other forms of sex)
rape: unlawful sexual intercourse or penetration of the victim’s body by a body part or object

Fondling isn’t rape. Attempted rape is not rape. Rape is a form of sexual assault. They are different terms with different meanings.

Why did you send this comment? Why do you respond to people's comments in general? If not to have a conversation or an argument then why? Because you still haven't really addressed anything I've said. And when I say "really address" I mean, as I've already asked, give me YOUR definition of rape, give me YOUR definition of sexual assault, tell me HOW these things are significantly different enough that it is IMPERATIVE that I AND EVERYONE ELSE ALSO make the distinction while talking about the events of the story, give me YOUR EVIDENCE as to how I came to the WRONG CONCLUSION about the FACTS, which you say I'm fighting against here, USING DETAILS FROM THE STORY. TALK TO ME LIKE A HUMAN BEING. PLEASE. I AM BEGGING YOU. I AM trying to be respectful and I'm finding it incredibly difficult not only because I disagree with you but also because you genuinely keep giving me non-answers. How can I engage respectfully with someone who continuously tells me I'm wrong about my interpretation of this story and its implications, but then does not actually supply counter-evidence, even when I more explicitly and politely ask?

And also, I know you're using ChatGPT for sure now, likely the 4o model, right? I've used it a lot myself. So I know you've copy-pasted our conversations into it and asked it to analyze my responses and come up with counter-arguments and name whatever logical fallacies I may or may not actually be falling into based off of certain parameters you've fed it. Likely, you've been asking it to write it as if it were you, and it succeeded at times and failed at other times, so you had to manually go in and change and add things yourself to make it sound more human.

That's part of why "your" language (the jumbled mess of pronouns used to refer to myself and yourself, the broken, grammatically incorrect syntax interspersed with more correct, albeit robotic syntax), and why "your" own arguments are becoming increasingly disordered and non-specific, and why "your" statements all sound exactly the same almost every time, no matter who you're responding to or what has actually been said or not said before. ChatGPT has a hard time understanding and utilizing context, especially when you overload it with too much data at once. I've seen how it breaks down with my own eyes. I've also seen how weird it can be with pulling out specific quotes from a piece of text you've fed it and asked it to analyze. I know how it will, as its done here, pull out the middle of a sentence rather than a full sentence, how it will invent quotes altogether. But the biggest giveaways are the topical headers in your responses, which are surrounded by asterisks. This is of course how ChatGPT organizes topics in its responses when you've asked it to do multiple things at once, such as asking it to analyze different parts of a text, or analyze the text in different ways. It bolds the headers using those two asterisks as is custom in HTML and it also tends to make that text bigger than the following text.

Either you give me your next response in your own words, or I ignore you from now on. You've made the mistake of chatting with someone who has extensively played around with ChatGPT's several models, for the express purpose of analyzing how it works and what it is capable of. I have written a paper on it. I have seen right through you and you can't fool me anymore.

"Rape is penetration of the anus or vagina, in any capacity, with any object, that is unwanted or forced."

Hm. So I do recall Jaekyung repeatedly forcing an object (his penis) into Dan's anus in a way that was unwanted and forced. Several times. Throughout this Webtoon. Please tell me what ChatGPT thinks about this, I'm very interested in knowing!

yeah omg!! its funny you say that since a friend of mine who read this had the same response. like the potential was there but it just fell flat. honestly i feel that way about a lot of BLs currently but thats another conversation.

but yes, it’s really frustrating when people say nothing is wrong because Dan “signed away his rights to say no” since someone could get trapped irl by thinking they have no power because they signed a contract. i think there was also similar discourse about this in the Fifty Shades of Grey fandom.

alas all i can do is sit back and shake my head in disappointment. maybe the author will surprise us all next season with something amazing, but i won’t be holding my breath.

btw sorry if this sounds weird but do you have a social i could follow? our discussion was just so refreshing and you seem like a cool person! of course it’s totally fine if you don’t want to tho :)

not just frustrating but again, really really sincerely concerning. people unironically will use these exact arguments to say that sex workers deserve any mistreatment they get. or like, hell, victim blame Anyone who got into Any type of relationship where mistreatment happens that they couldn't forsee happening beforehand :/// "just do a different job!" "you should've been able to tell!" "but you said yes to cuddling with them, didn't you?" and so on.

it doesn't sound weird at all, i'm glad i left that impression on you. you seem cool, too :D!!! mmm but i do kind of want to keep my accounts separate for now, at least. part of it is not really wanting my Me associated with this account (although tbh. do i really care that much) but the other part of it is i don't want the bot bozo i've been arguing with or anyone else who might disagree with me here to go stalk my other accounts LMAOOO but we'll see. the third part of it is i'm gonna be so honest with you i only really post about minecraft on my tumblr and minecraft fanfic on my ao3 so if you do want to go searching...i will say that under a certain very niche, non-rpf gay minecraft ship tag, i have a fic called "desire" ehehe. i will think about whether or not i want to eventually share my accounts more directly, though ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~

no worries!! do whatever is comfortable for you. there is a DM feature on this site also, in case you were unaware lol. but its all good either way! rn I’ll just follow you on this site.

btw i did witness the debate with the other user and i will say you cooked that mf. flam bayed, roasted and served. they reply to like every single comment that criticizes this story and i know they replied to me but i didn’t even read it LMAO. you really killed it though i was cheering in the bleachers.

WAAAAHHH WHERE i was trying to find it but couldn't!!! anyway yeah taking apart the ChatGPTisms was really satisfying. they really picked the wrong one to do that shit with. we'll see if they actually respond like a human being but i'm not holding my breath.

PQ, I want to acknowledge the harassment you've faced and assure you that I will follow your lead regarding Akaito. It seems Akaito is aware of you and some of your comments, but I am questioning if there might be a misunderstanding of your comments or potentially bad faith at play. Let me explain your intention here with your last comment. When we shift from writing to a person to speaking generally to others reading our messages, it indicates that we recognize there is no productive conversation possible with them and giving a situation we could be merely facing harassment from them.
When a conversation shifts from directly addressing a person to speaking generally, it often indicates a recognition that a productive discussion isn’t possible with that person and that harassment may be at play. It's disappointing to see that the conversation, which you sought to be constructive, devolved into personal attacks and name-calling from the beginning. When a discussion turns to such behavior, it typically signifies a lack of valid points and an attempt to undermine the dialogue through personal attacks. This is not productive and certainly not a debate.
It appears that Akaito has mischaracterized your intentions, accusing you of being a bot bozo and claiming you could stalk them, despite your clear disinterest and their fixation on you. This narrative aligns with tactics used by certain hate group.
You aimed for constructive dialogue, but Akaito's responses were more about forcing a debate or argument rather than engaging in a meaningful discussion. Many of their claims has no evidence or productive conversation. Akaito's focus on personal attacks rather than addressing factual information shows a lack of willingness to engage respectfully. How does one cook to serve in a debate when there is no debate? It’s hard to engage in a debate when no real debate exists and when Akaito refuted nothing.

Constructive dialogue should be based on facts and respectful discourse, not on personal attacks. It’s evident that Akaito conflated objective information with subjective opinions and tried to frame factual reporting as debatable. Their attempts to force a debate and misinterpretation of your method of communication suggest a misunderstanding of the nature of your conversation or trying to discredit you by a foolish argument. When you look at their comments they have been trying to discredit you because you have ask for a conversation in many of your comments and Akaito ignored that in many ways. I am referring to this comment, “If not to have a conversation or an argument then why?”
You put “It is not my working definition. This is not their opinion vs my opinion. This is them vs facts. Don’t ask for my opinion or my working definition as you will not get it. I am objectively reporting. This person is dismissing what I say and trying to change my comments for me to argue with them.”
Akaito’s response focused on demanding your definitions and disputing them, which seems to miss the point of your factual reporting. From Akaito’s comment you can tell there is not debate and so when they claimed Akaito cooked to served in a debate it was funny because it went against this conversation and even Akaito’s comments. Another example is how Akaito saying you keep saying they are wrong in their interpretation and you are saying something different.
AI tools, like ChatGPT, are meant to enhance clarity and effectiveness in communication, not to deceive. Your focus on content rather than methods is the right approach. A respectful dialogue should be grounded in understanding and factual discussion, not in attempts to undermine or demean. It seems Akaito preferred to challenge the refinement of your messages rather than the substance, possibly to create emotional conflicts and feel superior. AI is a valuable tool that helps many people enhance their language skills and express themselves more effectively. It’s all about continuous learning and growth, no matter the age or starting point.
Your efforts to keep the conversation fact-based and respectful were clear, and it’s unfortunate that Akaito's responses were dismissive and combative. It’s important to prioritize discussions with those willing to engage constructively. If someone disagrees with established facts, they are disputing the facts themselves not someone’s opinion.

Given these issues, it seems wise to step back from further engagement with Akaito. Your approach to seeking understanding and maintaining respectful dialogue is commendable, and avoiding further conflict with those not open to it is a sensible choice.

We believe that open and honest communication is key to resolving misunderstandings. However, the current discourse has devolved into name-calling and unfounded accusations, which is not conducive to a constructive resolution. We advocate for a respectful dialogue that seeks to understand rather than to accuse.
Also, it is interesting to see this one reusing words ( I have seen right through you and you can't fool me anymore) used against the hate group, it must have been the truth. When it is false it has little to no effect. No, they don’t see right through you and you were not trying to fool anyone. Akaito only has assumptions. You made the right choice to start avoiding Akaito.

okay bot! okay second account! pop off!!!

There is your proof they can't tell when it is chapgpt or not.
Calling people bots just shows they know they are wrong and they are here to fight. That took hours to read and write. At least I did not waste my time I wrote to you. Keep up the good work.

nah i checked yours and PQ’s activity pages and they’re very similar to one another. chatgpt used over there, too. i don’t care what you have to say anymore, keep responding, it’s funny. i’ll treat you like the word vomitter you’re committed to being. why don’t you ask chatgpt to spit out some jinx fanfic? though since jinx came out so recently you’d have to feed it a lot to get anything even halfway decent. plus i don’t think it would really be able to talk about the subject matter and themes presented in this webtoon. probably why there are all the non-answers.

like what you thought you would make me feel bad? feel ganged up on? nah bro this shit is fucking hilarious. yeah i’m sitting pretty on my moral high ground you are damn fucking right. i tried to engage in nuanced discussion with you, thinking you were a real person, about something that is deeply fucking important to me, and you chat back to me with shitty AI generated non-answer responses because you can’t articulate your own original thoughts, if you even have any to articulate to begin with. then you show up with an alternate account. you’re fucking pathetic bro. i’m here able to passionately and with well-formed opinions and research under my belt talk about rape culture and capitalism and art and shit. you’re using chatgpt. ad hom ad hom ad hom ad hom.

My comments are tagged to one person here, my friend. It is odd how some people will think those messages are for them to where they would respond when no one is talking to them for how they treat others.

if you read what i said you’d have seen i said you were using it to help you not that it consisted of your entire responses. but i guess that’s what happens when you’re too used to just copy-pasting shit into a glorified predictive text generator, giving its response a once-over, and then copy-pasting it back into people’s comments. you lose your ability to read, you lose your ability to critically think.

PT,

It seems several assumptions are being made about us including the claim that we are not "real" people. This tactic appears to be an attempt to discredit us rather than engage with the actual issues.. The laughter and insults suggest frustration rather than a genuine attempt at meaningful dialogue. The use of AI tools like ChatGPT was intended to enhance clarity and ensure our messages were not misinterpreted emotionally, especially given our experiences with harassment and cyberstalking from a hate group. There’s no real argument against using ChatGPT—it was about improving communication, not hiding behind technology.

The repeated personal attacks and lack of substantive responses are not productive. Constructive discussion should focus on ideas and evidence rather than resorting to ad hominem arguments. If Akaito had engaged in meaningful dialogue and asked questions rather than attacking, the conversation might have been more constructive. Claiming moral high ground while dismissing others’ perspectives and employing toxic behavior undermines productive conversation.

Open and respectful engagement is crucial for meaningful dialogue. Personal attacks only hinder progress. Akaito’s actions, characterized by constant attacks, are what derailed the conversation. When has Akaito engaged with you without resorting to attacks?

To reiterate, our use of ChatGPT was to clarify and refine our communication due to our specific circumstances, not to deflect from the conversation. Akaito’s focus on personal attacks and deflections from the main issues are why the discussion hasn’t progressed constructively.

i asked you clarifying questions several times and you did not answer. you were not even up front about the fact that you were using chatgpt and you could’ve been at any point during the conversation. i picked your shit apart and you left and came back and now you wanna continue to act like i’m the one acting in bad faith. well now i am, specifically towards you, bitty-bot (づ￣ ³￣)づ

Ain't 20-v-1, it's 1-v-20 if I gotta smack niggas that write with you
Yeah, bring 'em out too, I'll clean 'em out too
Tell BEAM that he better stay right with you
Am I battlin' ghost or AI? Nigga feelin' like Joel Osteen
Funny, he was in a film called "AI"
And my sixth sense tellin' me to off him

PQ,
It seems there are several misunderstandings and assumptions regarding our use of ChatGPT and how we use ChatGPT. The claim that we’re using ChatGPT to generate counter-arguments or analyze responses with the intention of manipulating the conversation is not accurate. While ChatGPT is a tool we use to ensure clarity and coherence, it does not create arguments or responses independently. It helps refine our messages to be more precise and clear, not to craft responses on our behalf or to engage in deception.
The comments about our supposed inability to read or think critically are personal attacks rather than constructive feedback. Such remarks do not contribute to a meaningful dialogue and distract from the actual issues being discussed. That suggests the person is upset instead of "laughing". Akaito misunderstood their assumptions are wrong but what is stated sounds like Akaito was saying the whole message was made then you edited it after you asked it to come up with counter-arguments, that is non-exist to Akaito. " Likely, you've been asking it to write it as if it were you, and it succeeded at times and failed at other times, so you had to manually go in and change and add things yourself to make it sound more human." It comes off that you were accused of using it to create your entire response. That is wrong.

PQ,

It seems there’s been some confusion, as it appears Akaito might think I am you. To clarify, I was not asked any clarifying questions, and from my perspective, it doesn’t seem that you were asked any either. While you did provide responses to nearly all queries, there may have been a few points left unanswered due to the nature of the discussion. I know you did not anwser one or two but you did not think there will be productive dialogue. I am glad Akaito has proven you right.

It’s important to emphasize that our aim has always been to engage in good faith and constructive dialogue. However, the comments suggest a shift away from this goal, with a tone and language that reflect frustration rather than a commitment to productive discussion. Akaito’s claims of “picking things apart” do not seem to address or counter the points made, which suggests an attempt to win the argument rather than engage meaningfully.
The personal attacks and references in the comments do not contribute to a constructive dialogue. We are here to discuss the issues at hand respectfully, not to engage in personal conflicts or confrontations.

Let’s focus on addressing the core issues with respect and openness, rather than allowing the conversation to be derailed by personal attacks or misunderstandings.

Ain't 20-v-1, it's 1-v-20 if I gotta smack niggas that write with you
Yeah, bring 'em out too, I'll clean 'em out too
Tell BEAM that he better stay right with you
Am I battlin' ghost or AI? Nigga feelin' like Joel Osteen
Funny, he was in a film called "AI"
And my sixth sense tellin' me to off him

Ain't 20-v-1, it's 1-v-20 if I gotta smack niggas that write with you
Yeah, bring 'em out too, I'll clean 'em out too
Tell BEAM that he better stay right with you
Am I battlin' ghost or AI? Nigga feelin' like Joel Osteen
Funny, he was in a film called "AI"
And my sixth sense tellin' me to off him

You probably already figured it out but Persistent Quill and Shielded Guard are the same person. They're a weirdo who gets really offended when you see through their "intellectual" mask. See how the second account showed up when you pushed back? They used to copypaste the first thing they googled to support their brainrotted argument that JK is not a rapist. Now they use chatgpt to write for them. Even their names are AI generated. I've got albums full of the crazy shit they've said and done.

Yeah 100%, see page two of this thread, I completely picked them apart. Also DM me the pics I'm so curious.

Hey,

As discussed with our friend, I decided to reconsider Akaito based on their recent approach, which shows a significant shift in tone. Their message to Manhwascipy indicates they are open to a more structured and respectful dialogue, which is what I had hoped for. I appreciate Akaito's willingness to engage in a structured and respectful discussion with Manhwascipy.

However, Akaito's treatment of me has been quite different, often feeling impersonal and dismissive.

It's puzzling how Akaito interacts with us, especially since they respond like a bot to you when not directly addressed. This behavior, combined with recent harassment from the sock puppet account (BaileyBot), makes me question whether this is a deliberate attempt by the hate group to escalate the situation.

I'm unsure if giving Akaito another chance is the right move. Their treatment of us has been confusing, particularly since they've shown little regard for me personally and have appeared to have preconceived notions without giving me a fair chance. Akaito never treated me or you as a human.

As our friend pointed out that Akaito seemed defensive and missed my points, which aligns with my experience of their dismissive and aggressive responses. This has made productive dialogue challenging from the start.

Another factor might be their view on AI tools. I use tools like ChatGPT to refine my responses for clarity, not to replace personal engagement. My responses are genuine, and I use AI to enhance communication, not to deceive.

Another reason could be this:
"The distinguishing between the two felt to me like it was implying a difference in severity." and it is not.

Another reason was I was calling people with different opinions and perspectives uneducated. That is just wrong.

Overall, it's been difficult to navigate these interactions, and I'm weighing whether to continue engaging with Akaito under these circumstances.

@SG,

I should have reviewed the topic before I posted my last comment. It seems Akaito quickly believes misinformation, which has influenced their treatment of me. They never gave me a fair chance and seemed to push me into conflict. Akaito might be another alt account of the haters, possibly a catfish.

That sock puppet using debunked information still.

The claim that “Persistent Quill and Shielded Guard are the same person” is a tactic to intimidate and is part of a hate group narrative.

The description of me as a “weirdo” who gets offended when others see through my “intellectual” mask is a deflection and doesn’t accurately represent the situation.

The suggestion that “the second account showed up when you pushed back” is misleading. I don’t recall Akaito pushing back; rather, I saw a tantrum over AI tools and attempts to control me through harassment. Shielded Guard appeared after I left the conversation but was trying to de-escalate the situation. Akaito’s responses have been childlike compared to their more respectful approach with Manhwascipy.

The accusation that “they used to copypaste the first thing they googled” is likely a reaction to being proven wrong, with targets being misrepresented by the sock puppet.

The claim about using ChatGPT to write responses is false.

The idea that “their names are AI-generated” is new to me and seems speculative.

The statement “I’ve got albums full of the crazy shit they’ve said and done” is misleading and spreads misinformation about their targets. The sock puppet has been debunked for months and continues to spread falsehoods. It shows how absurd their behavior is and how angry they are that they are wrong.

The claim that “see page two of this thread, I completely picked them apart” doesn’t reflect reality. It shows a desire to attack rather than understand. This seems indicative of a hate group with preconceived notions trying to harm us.

The request to “DM me the pics I’m so curious” seems to be an attempt to perpetuate lies and gaslight.

Overall, this situation appears to be driven by a sock puppet’s and a catfish account vendetta rather than a genuine discussion.

I see that you (ChatGPT) see how I have been more than willing to be civil elsewhere with other people. I'm offering you one more olive branch before I completely quit engagement with you. I have already given you my terms for continued engagement. Stop using ChatGPT. I cannot have a real discussion with ChatGPT aided messages, ChatGPT is not a good tool to use for complex discussions such as these, nor for any discussion between people, period. It doesn't have a good working "memory" and you have to supply it with far too much context in order to make its messages make sense in the broader context of the conversation. It breaks down when you feed it too much data, I know that from experience, and I know that a vast majority of my responses have too much going on in them for ChatGPT to properly handle. It's in both of our best interests, but especially yours, to stop using ChatGPT. It is genuinely making you incoherent and it is very strongly dissuading me from engaging with you.

Look, if you're a non-native English speaker and you're worried about being misunderstood or coming across wrong, I understand that. It doesn't really change that right now, I think that you're very wrong, and that you haven't said anything to really make me believe otherwise, but I can understand being worried about properly communicating. My friend tells me that DeepL is a good translation tool that you can use. Feel free to type in your native language and translate it, or just do your best with English, I will try my best to in good faith interpret what you're saying, and ask questions where I think something is unclear, as I've been willing to do elsewhere. But I seriously can't continue to talk to you while you're using ChatGPT. It honest to god gives me a goddamn headache with all the noise that it's adding to your responses, not to mention, because it can't account for context, your responses have been lacking substance altogether.

I don’t address anyone in this comment, and it was intended to be my last. Was the reply ‘see page two of this thread, I completely picked them apart’ in response to my decision to stop talking to Akaito?

Regarding the comment that followed, I see no productive value in it. It seems to be a tantrum about ChatGPT, filled with assumptions, baseless accusations, and aggressive claims. If it was meant to pick someone apart, it wasn’t me, and it didn’t contribute constructively to the discussion I wanted to have. Akaito has never seen me.

I am willing to give anyone a second chance. But are you?
I explained to give understanding, yet you kept your assumptions “I see that you (ChatGPT) “
That was uncalled and this is not going to work if what I said is dismissed. My messages are coherent, and I believe there might be some stigmatization or assumptions affecting how this is being interpreted. l've noticed some personal attacks and unfair judgments in the responses, which makes it hard to have a constructive conversation.

I have to read the terms again but I will add some of my own because I prefer a respectful discussion which o don’t feel many of your comments have not being respectful. You want to be treated like a human but I feel you did not treat me like a human.

I will use ChatGPT again, if you continue to attack me.
You had two paragraphs. I don’t agree with your opinion on ChatGPT. I am seeing many assumptions and what you are thinking isn’t correct in how we use it. Your first paragraph had me strongly dissuading me from engaging with you. BaileyBot is only here to harass us and spread falsehoods. It is a sock puppet of a hate group that is targeted and harassing many people.


Your second paragraph… the first part seem caring. Then I am reminded what has been shared with you and that should getting you an idea of why ChatGPT is used. With that being said… “you're worried about being misunderstood or coming across wrong, ”. I could come off aggressive or confrontational but many times I don’t mean it the way it sounds.

“I think that you're very wrong, and that you haven't said anything to really make me believe otherwise, but I can understand being worried about properly communicating.” Is this about using ChatGPT. Is so, that’s your opinion but I understand you don’t have the full picture and keeping your assumptions instead of the truth.
At the moment, I believe you are under many assumptions and it feels since you kept them, you want to believe you are right in those assumptions about other people’s actions regardless of what they explained to you. That is unfair. I think you are unfair with ChatGPT and I understand you are misunderstanding what is happening and what has happened. In understanding that I am giving you a chance.

“I will try my best to in good faith interpret what you're saying, and ask questions where I think something is unclear, as I've been willing to do elsewhere.””

That is another one of the reasons I am writing this reply to you. But things like this “It honest to god gives me a goddamn headache with all the noise that it's adding to your responses, not to mention, because it can't account for context, your responses have been lacking substance altogether.”
You are personally attacking me when I know it is a baseless accusation. Why do you want to attack someone and pick them apart. And on assumptions.

Which one is it Akaito? Are you going to give me a real chance as I am with you? Or keep your assumptions and personally attack me with more baseless accusations? Calling me ChatGPT and other things says I feel you are not going to give me a fair chance or be civil to me. I had enough of people harassing my friends and me.
Honestly, you accused me I will stalk you and you have treated me awful yet you think I am in the wrong for using tools to help? Do you care to reread some of your comments to me? I have never attacked you or anything negative yet you have me to be the enemy with a death sentence when my only “crime” is using a tool where you have degraded me, attacked me, made baseless accusations, name called, incited I would stalk you. Many people would not gave you a second chance. It should be me laying down terms instead of you but I am saying clean slate. The choice is yours. You can’t control others but you can control yourself. Your behavior is on you. How you treat others is on you. Your judgements say more about you than the one you are judging or attacking.

You're right! I'm not giving you a second chance, your attitude is fucking annoying.

I'll be honest, I was aggressive with you at first because not only did I find your responses to be repulsive, but also because I did immediately have the feeling that I was speaking to someone generating responses rather than someone actually using their own words. Hence why my first question to you was: are you a bot. After you clarified that that wasn't the case, I proceeded to treat you like you were a human—one that I disagreed with strongly, and one that was not actually engaging with my points. One that I thought was arguing in a very soulless way about something so incredibly personal, so incredibly important, like rape and sexual assault. I went out of my way to explain how you were coming across, not just because I wanted to be a little mean, and I'll admit, I did want to be a little mean, but because I wanted you to know and understand how you were sounding so that you would have the opportunity to change tactics.

Several times I asked you clarifying questions, not because I was trying to be annoying or shut you down or immediately just to prove you wrong, but because I was trying to understand where you were coming from, because I was having genuine trouble understanding where you were coming from and why. So that I could more accurately respond to what you were saying. Almost every single time I did this, and explained MYSELF thoroughly, you responded by only continuing to point out the logical fallacies I was supposedly falling into. You never explained why you were thinking the way you did, you never clarified your definitions of things up until the very end when you FINALLY provided resources with quotes which decidedly proved you wrong, you only continued to say that I was wrong without providing any evidence from the text of Jinx itself. And I asked you several times to please do that. Because I sincerely wanted to understand you. Of course I became frustrated. How could I not become frustrated when I am earnestly trying to engage in a topic that I am very invested in and care a lot about, and the person I am talking to keeps just telling me I'm wrong without really explaining why, and on top of that they keep throwing at me, at the end of their ChatGPT generated messages, useless platitudes about addressing the "substance" of a conversation with no substance, about being respectful? It's only natural.

You had several opportunities throughout our conversation to clarify that you were using ChatGPT. I didn't know for sure that you were using ChatGPT up until the moment you made your big blunder, and I thoroughly, thoroughly picked it apart. And instead of you finally just being upfront and honest about it, instead of you finally agreeing to stop using the tool, you decided to come at me from an alternative account of yours, continuing to do pretty much the same thing. Why why why why WHY on god's green earth would I try to continue being civil with you? Why would I not disengage at that point? Why wouldn't I think negatively of your use of it? Why wouldn't I think that you were using it for deceptive purposes, at the very least, when you didn't inform me that you were using it, and then continued, in multiple other posts, to try to act like you WEREN'T using it when you, in fact, were? Like you do understand that it's incredibly abnormal to use ChatGPT to have a conversation with another living, breathing human being, right? I would have been more than willing to grant some grace if you'd been up front about it from the start, but you weren't. I have several non-native English speaking friends, I understand this shit is fucking hard, I'm the last person who is EVER going to fault you for using tools to make it easier for you. But not when the tools aren't even helping you and are only serving to frustrate further.

Your crime was not just using a tool. Your crime was talking about rape and sexual assault in an insensitive manner. Your crime was not being upfront with me. Your crime was not taking this conversation or any others you've been having with anyone else thus far seriously enough to engage with your own words and thoughts.

Jaekyung raped Dan. ChatGPT is a terrible tool to use to engage in nuanced discussion. If you do not understand these things, I can only wish you luck in this life.

I see deflection “your attitude is fucking annoying.”

My replies are repulsive? Baseless accusations especially compared to Akaito’s. Wait more deflection.

“ I did immediately have the feeling that I was speaking to someone generating responses rather than someone actually using their own words.”
That is inaccurate. Akaito kept their lies.

“ I proceeded to treat you like you were a human—one that I disagreed with strongly, and one that was not actually engaging with my points.”

Akaito never tried me like a human. And I was engaging with their points.

“One that I thought was arguing in a very soulless way about something so incredibly personal, so incredibly important, like rape and sexual assault. “

- I wasn’t.

“you were sounding so that you would have the opportunity to change tactics.”
That is Akaito’s opinion and it is not shared by many.

“Several times I asked you clarifying questions, not because I was trying to be annoying or shut you down or immediately just to prove you wrong, but because I was trying to understand where you were coming from, “

- hard to talk to someone always assuming and attacking.

“because I was having genuine trouble understanding where you were coming from and why.”
-this is the problem that lead to me being attacked and never listened to.


“So that I could more accurately respond to what you were saying. Almost every single time I did this, and explained MYSELF thoroughly, you responded by only continuing to point out the logical fallacies I was supposedly falling into. “

It is called a call out. Using my friend’s words “Calling someone out isn't meant to harm someone–it's meant to point out where someone went wrong in hopes of them correcting themself and apologizing. Being called out isn't the same thing as being attacked. Being attacked is a malicious intent to hurt

Tora called out and blocked on a conversation going nowhere. Isn’t not the same as attacking and blocking. You can’t compare. Can’t you differentiate between a call out and an attack?”


“You never explained why you were thinking the way you did, you never clarified your definitions of things up”

-Aka’s attacks derailed the conversation.

“ FINALLY provided resources with quotes which decidedly proved you wrong, “
This resource decided shows there is no rape in Jinx. I thank Aka proving my point. Nothing would be good enough answer for them. They will make anything wrong.


“you only continued to say that I was wrong without providing any evidence from the text of Jinx itself.
- yikes! A baseless accusation. What?


“And I asked you several times to please do that. “
Aka’s attacks derailed the conversation.

“Because I sincerely wanted to understand you.”

- If that was true we would never got here. Aka would never attacked me.

“Of course I became frustrated. How could I not become frustrated when I am earnestly trying to engage in a topic that I am very invested in and care a lot about, and the person I am talking to keeps just telling me I'm wrong without really explaining why, and on top of that they keep throwing at me, at the end of their ChatGPT generated messages, useless platitudes about addressing the "substance" of a conversation with no substance, about being respectful? It's only natural.”

- that is all baseless accusations.

“You had several opportunities throughout our conversation to clarify that you were using ChatGPT. I didn't know for sure that you were using ChatGPT up until the moment you made your big blunder, and I thoroughly, thoroughly picked it apart. “
- Aka never did pick anything apart. And Aka is keeping to that false narrative. I was not using ChatGPT as Aka excuse me of.
“ you decided to come at me from an alternative account of yours,”.
- I have not responded with my main account. My friend is my friend and not me.

“continuing to do pretty much the same thing.”
-SG didn’t and didn’t even talked to aka. What pathetic behavior.
“
Why why why why WHY on god's green earth would I try to continue being civil with you? “
-continue? Where was civility?

“Why would I not disengage at that point? Why wouldn't I think negatively of your use of it? Why wouldn't I think that you were using it for deceptive purposes, at the very least, when you didn't inform me that you were using it, and then continued, in multiple other posts, to try to act like you WEREN'T using it when you, in fact, were? “
- Huh? What? Aka is not understanding how it is used. I feel sorry for Aka.

“Like you do understand that it's incredibly abnormal to use ChatGPT to have a conversation with another living, breathing human being, right? “
-it is not and I am not using as Aka thinks. Aka the one that never gave me a chance, a living breathing human that tried to talk to them as they harassed me.

“ I would have been more than willing to grant some grace if you'd been up front about it from the start, but you weren't.

-It is irrelevant. What a dumb argument to fighting. It is trivial.

“I'm the last person who is EVER going to fault you for using tools to make it easier for you. But not when the tools aren't even helping you and are only serving to frustrate further.”
- yet I been “picked” apart and bragged happen when all that was said was assume. This means it was not accurate analysis and yet Aka keeps repeating it.


- your crime was talking about rape and sexual assault in an insensitive manner.
- whoa! I don’t. What a disgusting thing to claim.

“Your crime was not being upfront with me.”
- I have been upfront but the reason this is being said. It trivial.

“Your crime was not taking this conversation or any others you've been having with anyone else thus far seriously enough to engage with your own words and thoughts.”

- I take all my conversations seriously. I do use my own words and thoughts. Aka is inaccurate. Aka has this wrong and not listening.

“Jaekyung raped Dan.”
That is an opinion. By facts and evidence Jaekyung never raped Dan.

“ChatGPT is a terrible tool to use to engage in nuanced discussion.”
-trivial and irrelevant as it does not apply here.

“If you do not understand these things, I can only wish you luck in this life”

- I hope aka learns this is not how you treat others. I am a SA survivor and I don’t take this subject lightly. I have always taken my conversations seriously until I know they are in bad-faith. Aka showed they are in bad-faith and nothing they said was honest or correct.

With my friend’s words, I didn’t omitted everything. I left a paragraph that need to be omitted and I thought I did omit it.

I don’t know who Aka is attacking but it is not me or my friends. Aka is taking their anger out on me and my friend but they need to take their anger out in productive ways.

I can only feel sorry for someone acting like that. It was pathetic and disgusting behavior.

chapter 1
- dan witnesses jaekyung uncontrollably beat the shit outta someone off the bat in ch. 1, contributing to preexisting fear of physical violence from him. granted though this was not jaekyung’s intention (debatable honestly) and does also count towards why dan could’ve/should’ve known to say no to the agreement
- jaekyung is just overall physically intimidating whether he’s trying to be or not. this isn’t his fault but there’s no question that he uses this to try to get his way in situations
- uh. dan was hired as a pt. not even by jaekyung himself but by his manager? ch. 1
- dan is there for the conversation about jaekyung having knocked the previous pt out. point for he should’ve/could’ve left earlier, but also point for jaekyung (inadvertently here, granted) using threats of physical violence to intimidate, which could contribute to a coerced yes later
- dan comes to the conclusion that if he doesn’t do well, he will have physical violence used against him. jaekyung’s manager basically confirms this saying as long as dan doesn’t do anything to get on his nerves, he’ll be fine
- dan has a history of being physically abused, as such he will do anything he can to avoid it happening. that said jaekyung doesn’t know about this at this point (ch. 1)
- personally this…i feel like jaekyung picks out dan as his next target precisely because he’s a “little wimp” as he describes him after that first sesh
- as stated before dan is having to work multiple jobs to maintain himself which again highlights the sheer power differential between these two (can i clarify and say—jaekyung is not solely responsible for the sex being ultimately nonconsenual if that makes sense and i feel like this is what i was really trying to argue. we’ll see)
- dan is just so. self-blaming nothing to do with jaekyung yet but brother
- dan’s job prospects got fucked because of his previous boss, who was caught sexually assaulting him, but ended up getting him fired and spreading rumors about him. this contributes further to how desperate dan’s situation is hence why he is not given a meaningful choice (again, not ALL jaekyang’s fault)
- dan can’t afford to up and move somewhere where he might have better prospects idk how many times ill list down “he doesn’t have a real choice because he’s poor not because of jaekyung specifically although jaekyung doesn’t help”
- dan feeling unsafe everywhere. nothing to necessarily do with anything yet just an interesting detail
- dan is/would’ve been stuck between a rock and a hard place, getting beaten up by the loan sharks or getting raped or assaulted or whatever by jaekyung
- jaekyung lies to dan about his treatment to lure him to his appointment i guess you can argue dan should’ve used his common sense here but that feels victim blamey and if we can critique dan for lying about his experience we can certainly critique jaekyung for lying about why he was calling dan to his house
- dan says no to going to the apartment, jaekyung offers him more money for him to go (bribery more than coercion though lol but…considering that this is kind of a trap,)

chapter 2
- jaekyung…had someone else he was fucking already? who was willing? why switch to dan all of a sudden?
- dan again witnesses jaekyung use an disproportionate amount of physical violence (slamming guy’s head into a wall) AND a death threat against someone because of a slight provocation. again, this counts towards both “dan should’ve known better and left” and “dan likely (rightly) felt too intimidated to say no”
- jaekyung definitely does find dan physically attractive but we still don’t know why he decided to quit his previous partner for him
- jaekyung does try to get a vibe check on what dan might think/how he might feel about being propositioned
- the jinx in and of itself is a fundamentally fucking stupid plot device so let’s start there. we don’t know if it’s real or not we don’t get any real explanation for it other than that it exists. it exists to justify jaekyung’s sex-pesty behavior though, that’s for sure. you can interpret it as also another method of coercion—what he’s saying is that if he loses, it will have been dan’s fault. this of course puts a disproportionate amount of pressure on dan but maybe im getting ahead of myself
- jaekyung physically grabs dan. nothing violent yet though but this is yknow. erm
- jaekyung does indeed give dan the choice to leave if he doesn’t want to have sex But the added consequence is no money. as noted before this guy lied in the first place. also note the language use: “guess you don’t **need** that five grand after all” just…interesting
- again, dan’s circumstances make his yes not a meaningful yes. that isn’t specifically entirely jaekyung’s fault but ***jaekyung does not help.***

chapter 3
ch. 3
- jaekyung does indeed ask if dan has been with a man before. he follows up with “i suppose it doesn’t actually matter.” now again dan should’ve been honest he is responsible for that but also, jaekyung, if he actually gave a fuck, wouldn’t just assume things—especially with the non-answer dan gives, the hesitance he shows
- dan did just lie though. stupid bitch. you could say this counts against him but you could also attribute his feeling of having to lie to not only his own personal psychology but, again, the various shows of violence and intimidation jaekyung had performed beforehand
- jaekyung uses physical force on dan to get him out of the shower and throw him onto the bed after he takes too long in the shower. again dan ain’t sign up for allat. again jaekyung could’ve/should’ve checked in properly here but whatever it’s his character
- threatens to break dan’s ankle when he struggles and asks him to wait
- I GET THIS IS FANTASY BUT I DON’T CARE HOW EXPERIENCED SOMEONE IS YOU DO NOT SHOVE A COCK UP THEIR ASS NO PREP ESPECIALLY NOT A MONSTER COCK. THIS GUY JUST WANTED TO HURT HIM. “DISCOMFORT” DURING SEX MY ASS? NO PUN INTENDED?
- threatens violence again (“if you waste my time like that last little bitch, don’t expect to be sent home safe and sound”) when dan says he can’t actually go through with the sex, prompting dan to think of. the guy getting his face smashed into a wall.
- dan explicitly asks jaekyung “then how do i do this? if you just put it in, i think i’ll tear.” personally i once again think that this should have been a red flag to anyone who cares about the virginal status of their partner but. ok
- jaekyung says “last chance, no more mr. nice guy after this” which is another threat/intimidation tactic. he does tell dan to leave if he can’t handle prep. but this followed after the threat of getting his shit rocked if he’s too slow.
- do you really read all this and then read dan going “well i asked for it” and think “yep he sure did!” and not feel bad. at all. and like something isn’t right here.
- again jaekyung uses physical force on dan when he’s going too slow for his liking
- dan sure does ask for jaekyung to fuck his ass. after being roughly fingered
- dan tells jaekyung that it hurts and asks jaekyung to stop, jaekyung does not stop. jaekyung in fact proceeds to shove dan’s head into the mattress and say, “keep testing my patience, and i’ll smash your head in” followed by “just shut up and take it”

chapter 4
- dan tries to crawl away from jaekyung, jaekyung slams into him
- very hard pressed to read jaekyung’s response here as being one of concern/sympathy (“what the, are you crying? over that? i barely even put it in!”) it is if anything belittling. again dan is responsible for being honest but jaekyung is responsible for creating a space where he feels safe to be honest. besides that, jaekyung would’ve actually asked if he was okay instead of pounding into him
- jaekyung pounds into him, explicitly saying that he likes seeing dan cry, and that the tears won’t make him go easy on him
- jaekyung does…”check in” on dan, dan foolishly says he can take it.
- speaking of dan lying, when jaekyung says he’s had a bunch of cocks before, dan says that isn’t the case
- dan asks jaekyung to be gentler, jaekyung tells him to shut up and then goes harder and even covers his mouth so y’know even if he wanted to say no he couldn’t that’s very consensual to me

several different websites define rape, legally, to involve nonconsensual sexual intercourse (penetration) being done to another person by means of force—force being psychological coercion, threats, use of drugs, and/or use of physical force.

several websites define sexual assault (if/when there is a distinction between it and rape) as generally making contact with someone’s intimate body parts without their consent.

given that jaekyung used deception and intimidation (coercion) before if not also throughout their first interaction with one another, given that jaekyung repeatedly threatened physical violence and also used physical violence on dan, given that jaekyung penetrated dan, and given that dan repeatedly expressed, physically and verbally, his non-consent to jaekyung, only to have them all completely ignored if not responded to with even more threats and/or uses of physical violence—why would jaekyung’s actions against dan in at least these very first four chapters not fall under even the legal definition of rape?

you see, your friend PQ blocked me, so i felt that i should reach out to their friends. i just wanted to ask one more time, given all of this evidence, why they thought that dan was not raped?

"Jinx is non-consensual"
So you're acknowledging that it has rape? Cause that's what "non-consensual" means. Good to know you acknowledge that Jinx has rape! Debate over!

There are several people who simply call Jinx "toxic" and use mental gymnastics to excuse the abuse and rape that Dan DOES go through. I'm actually surprised you claim you haven't seen any of them because I feel like I trip over those people in every chapter's comment section

Can you point out these logical fallacies specifically? Are the logical fallacies in the room with us right now?

Dude Jaekyung literally penetrates Dan while Dan is saying "no". That is the legal definition of rape according to the FBI.

Are the rape crisis counselors in the room with us right now? And do they know the FBI's legal definition of rape? I would think that would be one of the first things they would learn as a crisis counselor.
Also why is it so important to debunk the idea that it is rape rather than sexual assault/non-con? You seem really determined to prove it's not rape. To my mind, that indicates that you love this bl because you're trying to ignore reality and the law to say "oh for sure it is not rape".

Okay so in Jinx, Jaekyung penetrates Dan without his consent. Thus, raping him. Good to see you debunked yourself, yay!

Omg this comment reminded me of something funny. PQ and his alts threatened to report his trolls to the FBI's Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3). Old man didn't even read the FAQs because IC3 only deals with fraud and scams involving MONEY. Gramps really thought the FBI would GAF about how he was being trolled on an illegal manga reading site.

My good friend @ANG3LG0R3 directed me here and good to see that brain rotting is still alive and kicking. I am so confused on why people go to such lengths to insist that Jinx has no rape. I am also disappointed in general with people about how they seem to think that rape is the worst type of sexual assault period and thus this stupid fictional comic must be defended to the death.

As someone who's experienced a "low level" form of sexual assault that cannot be legally defined as rape and has been traumatized by the experience, I find Persistent Quill to be not only a hack and a lazy writer but also, the point that they are defending is pretty pointless which is too bad because their name is "quill".

Jinx does have rape but if it didn't, I would still find Jaekyung's behavior reprehensible and I would find the people doing backflips to say that he is totally not abusing Dan to be very uneducated people who feel they have to perform social justice in their fandoms to be considered good people which is pretty sad. Just enjoy your problematic fiction and admit it's problematic fiction (with rape) and we are all good!
Anyways, Akaito, you're a real one, stay strong!

BRUH (≧∀≦)

You COOKED and you ATE here. My friend and I have been laughing with joy and glee at your responses because you are in many ways approaching this person as she would if she had an account on here so thank you for that. That really sucks that that happened to you though, man. It is genuinely with people like you in mind that I’m going so hard and I’m glad that I’m (hopefully) doing well in trying to communicate…well, all that I’m trying to communicate.

"
I understand that "Jinx" features non-consensual elements, but it's important to recognize that non-consensual acts can encompass a range of behaviors, not just rape."

Let's make it simpler.
Non-consenual is an umberalla term, not just rape.

Rape is non-con but not all non-con is rape.

PQ I hope you look back. Haha.

Aggressor 1 : PQ replies to every comment
Aggressor 2: PQ has not seen it in the comments because I have always seen them.
You cannot have it both ways. And neither is true because PQ is not every comment looks at the topic pages and the aggressor framed it wrong showing their lack of comprehension.


Saying Jinx is toxic does not excuse any abuse Dan has suffered. Same strawman arguments.

@ PQ
This is immature. This is saying they hate the callouts because it makes them look bad.
You know they could stop using them.
This behavior from this aggressor is petty and pathetic.

PQ this comment is immature. This behavior is petty and pathetic.

This is saying they hate the call-outs.

hey answer me. here are the facts you’re so obsessed with.

chapter 1
- dan witnesses jaekyung uncontrollably beat the shit outta someone off the bat in ch. 1, contributing to preexisting fear of physical violence from him. granted though this was not jaekyung’s intention (debatable honestly) and does also count towards why dan could’ve/should’ve known to say no to the agreement
- jaekyung is just overall physically intimidating whether he’s trying to be or not. this isn’t his fault but there’s no question that he uses this to try to get his way in situations
- uh. dan was hired as a pt. not even by jaekyung himself but by his manager? ch. 1
- dan is there for the conversation about jaekyung having knocked the previous pt out. point for he should’ve/could’ve left earlier, but also point for jaekyung (inadvertently here, granted) using threats of physical violence to intimidate, which could contribute to a coerced yes later
- dan comes to the conclusion that if he doesn’t do well, he will have physical violence used against him. jaekyung’s manager basically confirms this saying as long as dan doesn’t do anything to get on his nerves, he’ll be fine
- dan has a history of being physically abused, as such he will do anything he can to avoid it happening. that said jaekyung doesn’t know about this at this point (ch. 1)
- personally this…i feel like jaekyung picks out dan as his next target precisely because he’s a “little wimp” as he describes him after that first sesh
- as stated before dan is having to work multiple jobs to maintain himself which again highlights the sheer power differential between these two (can i clarify and say—jaekyung is not solely responsible for the sex being ultimately nonconsenual if that makes sense and i feel like this is what i was really trying to argue. we’ll see)
- dan is just so. self-blaming nothing to do with jaekyung yet but brother
- dan’s job prospects got fucked because of his previous boss, who was caught sexually assaulting him, but ended up getting him fired and spreading rumors about him. this contributes further to how desperate dan’s situation is hence why he is not given a meaningful choice (again, not ALL jaekyang’s fault)
- dan can’t afford to up and move somewhere where he might have better prospects idk how many times ill list down “he doesn’t have a real choice because he’s poor not because of jaekyung specifically although jaekyung doesn’t help”
- dan feeling unsafe everywhere. nothing to necessarily do with anything yet just an interesting detail
- dan is/would’ve been stuck between a rock and a hard place, getting beaten up by the loan sharks or getting raped or assaulted or whatever by jaekyung
- jaekyung lies to dan about his treatment to lure him to his appointment i guess you can argue dan should’ve used his common sense here but that feels victim blamey and if we can critique dan for lying about his experience we can certainly critique jaekyung for lying about why he was calling dan to his house
- dan says no to going to the apartment, jaekyung offers him more money for him to go (bribery more than coercion though lol but…considering that this is kind of a trap,)

chapter 2
- jaekyung…had someone else he was fucking already? who was willing? why switch to dan all of a sudden?
- dan again witnesses jaekyung use an disproportionate amount of physical violence (slamming guy’s head into a wall) AND a death threat against someone because of a slight provocation. again, this counts towards both “dan should’ve known better and left” and “dan likely (rightly) felt too intimidated to say no”
- jaekyung definitely does find dan physically attractive but we still don’t know why he decided to quit his previous partner for him
- jaekyung does try to get a vibe check on what dan might think/how he might feel about being propositioned
- the jinx in and of itself is a fundamentally fucking stupid plot device so let’s start there. we don’t know if it’s real or not we don’t get any real explanation for it other than that it exists. it exists to justify jaekyung’s sex-pesty behavior though, that’s for sure. you can interpret it as also another method of coercion—what he’s saying is that if he loses, it will have been dan’s fault. this of course puts a disproportionate amount of pressure on dan but maybe im getting ahead of myself
- jaekyung physically grabs dan. nothing violent yet though but this is yknow. erm
- jaekyung does indeed give dan the choice to leave if he doesn’t want to have sex But the added consequence is no money. as noted before this guy lied in the first place. also note the language use: “guess you don’t **need** that five grand after all” just…interesting
- again, dan’s circumstances make his yes not a meaningful yes. that isn’t specifically entirely jaekyung’s fault but ***jaekyung does not help.***

chapter 3
ch. 3
- jaekyung does indeed ask if dan has been with a man before. he follows up with “i suppose it doesn’t actually matter.” now again dan should’ve been honest he is responsible for that but also, jaekyung, if he actually gave a fuck, wouldn’t just assume things—especially with the non-answer dan gives, the hesitance he shows
- dan did just lie though. stupid bitch. you could say this counts against him but you could also attribute his feeling of having to lie to not only his own personal psychology but, again, the various shows of violence and intimidation jaekyung had performed beforehand
- jaekyung uses physical force on dan to get him out of the shower and throw him onto the bed after he takes too long in the shower. again dan ain’t sign up for allat. again jaekyung could’ve/should’ve checked in properly here but whatever it’s his character
- threatens to break dan’s ankle when he struggles and asks him to wait
- I GET THIS IS FANTASY BUT I DON’T CARE HOW EXPERIENCED SOMEONE IS YOU DO NOT SHOVE A COCK UP THEIR ASS NO PREP ESPECIALLY NOT A MONSTER COCK. THIS GUY JUST WANTED TO HURT HIM. “DISCOMFORT” DURING SEX MY ASS? NO PUN INTENDED?
- threatens violence again (“if you waste my time like that last little bitch, don’t expect to be sent home safe and sound”) when dan says he can’t actually go through with the sex, prompting dan to think of. the guy getting his face smashed into a wall.
- dan explicitly asks jaekyung “then how do i do this? if you just put it in, i think i’ll tear.” personally i once again think that this should have been a red flag to anyone who cares about the virginal status of their partner but. ok
- jaekyung says “last chance, no more mr. nice guy after this” which is another threat/intimidation tactic. he does tell dan to leave if he can’t handle prep. but this followed after the threat of getting his shit rocked if he’s too slow.
- do you really read all this and then read dan going “well i asked for it” and think “yep he sure did!” and not feel bad. at all. and like something isn’t right here.
- again jaekyung uses physical force on dan when he’s going too slow for his liking
- dan sure does ask for jaekyung to fuck his ass. after being roughly fingered
- dan tells jaekyung that it hurts and asks jaekyung to stop, jaekyung does not stop. jaekyung in fact proceeds to shove dan’s head into the mattress and say, “keep testing my patience, and i’ll smash your head in” followed by “just shut up and take it”

chapter 4
- dan tries to crawl away from jaekyung, jaekyung slams into him
- very hard pressed to read jaekyung’s response here as being one of concern/sympathy (“what the, are you crying? over that? i barely even put it in!”) it is if anything belittling. again dan is responsible for being honest but jaekyung is responsible for creating a space where he feels safe to be honest. besides that, jaekyung would’ve actually asked if he was okay instead of pounding into him
- jaekyung pounds into him, explicitly saying that he likes seeing dan cry, and that the tears won’t make him go easy on him
- jaekyung does…”check in” on dan, dan foolishly says he can take it.
- speaking of dan lying, when jaekyung says he’s had a bunch of cocks before, dan says that isn’t the case
- dan asks jaekyung to be gentler, jaekyung tells him to shut up and then goes harder and even covers his mouth so y’know even if he wanted to say no he couldn’t that’s very consensual to me

several different websites define rape, legally, to involve nonconsensual sexual intercourse (penetration) being done to another person by means of force—force being psychological coercion, threats, use of drugs, and/or use of physical force.

several websites define sexual assault (if/when there is a distinction between it and rape) as generally making contact with someone’s intimate body parts without their consent.

given that jaekyung used deception and intimidation (coercion) before if not also throughout their first interaction with one another, given that jaekyung repeatedly threatened physical violence and also used physical violence on dan, given that jaekyung penetrated dan, and given that dan repeatedly expressed, physically and verbally, his non-consent to jaekyung, only to have them all completely ignored if not responded to with even more threats and/or uses of physical violence—why would jaekyung’s actions against dan in at least these very first four chapters not fall under even the legal definition of rape?

Thank you for fighting the good fight. As SA survivor this weird "what constitute rape and sexual assault " is mad weird especially when it is used to downplay what happened to a victim. Might I add is the majority of the time use to downplay victims( survivor) own abuse.



As someone who really loves correcting people; rape is rape and sexual assault is sexual assault, if you are in no position to say no and are obligated to say yes your yes is as good as a no and it is rape ( if it's penetration in either way - forced to be penetrated or penetrate)
Sexual assault excludes this act, but it is not better or worse than rape in either cases its a violation of your bodily autonomy.

In the case of Dan it's rape pure and simple and saying otherwise can potentially feel like downplaying a survivors experience and make them feel like of they were "only" coerced it's not as bad and shouldn't seek justice or wouldn't be taken seriously. Honestly how it works in the justice system that's how they think and it's already hard enough for rape let along sexual assault.

So to anyone reading, if you were made to be put in a position where your no was not an option or important, no matter that you are male, female, non-binary or anything no matter if the perpetrator was male,female, non-binary or anything and even if you said yes, if no wouldn't matter you were RAPED.
Coercion to sexual penetration is rape. Don't downplay it because you said yes or don't conform to the perfect victim narrative. It was not right for you to be placed in such a situation and it was forced upon you( literally coercion is force no matter how gentle it seems). Having no way to properly inform yourself on what you are consenting to is forcefully putting you in a position of ignorance to your detriment, feels forcefu l because it is. If you can't consent for any reason, it's forcing you. The yes is forceful therefor not consent and if it's penetration it's rape( literally the definition bro posted).
If you are a SA victim you are valid and it's not because you weren't full on raped that what happened wasn't a serious and terrible thing that happened to you.


I know this all fiction and we have a right to explore different emotions and experience through art, but my problem with jinx( and a lot of bl honestly) is the lack of awareness and care that comes when dealing with these serious subject and the frankly disgusting portrayal of them, but because it's two men it doesn't matter as much and people have 6 thousand excuse for them. If it was mindless porn so be it, but there's obviously a push for a relationship being push and probably a "redemption" arc coming up. The author is obviously pushing for Dan not be seen as a victim of rape because it's almost practically unforgivable offense and demonstrate a lack of respect for the person, but that hasn't stop other bl so I don't get it.

I'm assuming obviously so take it with grain of salt because there can be other factors. But my point stands and the downplay of sexual violence when it comes from two men us downright horrific. Remember art imitates life. Criticizing art is important and doing some self reflection on the media we consume is essential. Asking question on what we are reading and why is good to catch bad trains of thoughts and biases.

To sum it all before I go on a another ADHD rant, you are valid your experience is valid and try your best to not be an obtuse dickhead that can't comprehend a definition that you yourself posted.

Sorry for anyone who has experience any form of sexual violence, kick anyone who tries to downplay your experience and art is meant to be viewed so it will automatically be criticize. Also it's not because something is common that is good or free from criticizing. This is getting long, but that's why I'm scared to read manhua's and Mangas these days lol.

Note: People who have been previously abused, have a difficulty expressing discomfort, have a lack of boundaries, pushovers, in difficulty situations( mentally, physically or financially), have a lack of self worth and struggle with mental disorders are more likely to end up I abusive relationships of any kind.
Bringing it up as an excuse to downplay their experience and point to say it's their fault because there's something "wrong" with them is downright evil and I hope you get some help if you think that disrespectfully,
Me

PQ,

It is disheartening to see how certain individuals resort to bullying and harassment, using flawed arguments to do so. They engage in abusive behavior and seem to believe they have succeeded, though their efforts have ultimately failed. Akaito, in particular, failed to engage in good faith. These aggressors continue to employ tactics like deflection, personal attacks, and harassment, which have derailed the conversation.

You blocked Akaito due to their persistent bad faith and paranoia, despite their numerous accusations against you.

A living, breathing human being should not have to endure continuous personal attacks and harassment. Akaito pretended to engage in good faith, but both of us anticipated that any attempt to engage would lead to further attacks and provocations from Baileybot and others. I’m relieved to see that they continued their behavior without a response from us.

Akaito, Haileybot, and the others here are harming people and abusing you. You are Dan, and they are Jaekyung. When you analyzed Akaito’s comments and suspected a trap, it became evident that the intention was to provoke and attack. Their actions are deeply troubling.

You write politely, and they respond with hostility. Each attempt to communicate respectfully is met with further aggression. They are trying to force you into submission through relentless attacks.

Their harassment continues unabated, and they seem proud of their actions. They have succeeded in embodying the worst traits, much like Jaekyung, who will never redeem themselves.

i’ve done the work for you. these are my notes, observations, and interpretations of the events of the first four chapters of this manhwa. i even include legal definitions like you wanted. point out specifically where i’m wrong. i’ve made it easy for you. answer me.

chapter 1
- dan witnesses jaekyung uncontrollably beat the shit outta someone off the bat in ch. 1, contributing to preexisting fear of physical violence from him. granted though this was not jaekyung’s intention (debatable honestly) and does also count towards why dan could’ve/should’ve known to say no to the agreement
- jaekyung is just overall physically intimidating whether he’s trying to be or not. this isn’t his fault but there’s no question that he uses this to try to get his way in situations
- uh. dan was hired as a pt. not even by jaekyung himself but by his manager? ch. 1
- dan is there for the conversation about jaekyung having knocked the previous pt out. point for he should’ve/could’ve left earlier, but also point for jaekyung (inadvertently here, granted) using threats of physical violence to intimidate, which could contribute to a coerced yes later
- dan comes to the conclusion that if he doesn’t do well, he will have physical violence used against him. jaekyung’s manager basically confirms this saying as long as dan doesn’t do anything to get on his nerves, he’ll be fine
- dan has a history of being physically abused, as such he will do anything he can to avoid it happening. that said jaekyung doesn’t know about this at this point (ch. 1)
- personally this…i feel like jaekyung picks out dan as his next target precisely because he’s a “little wimp” as he describes him after that first sesh
- as stated before dan is having to work multiple jobs to maintain himself which again highlights the sheer power differential between these two (can i clarify and say—jaekyung is not solely responsible for the sex being ultimately nonconsenual if that makes sense and i feel like this is what i was really trying to argue. we’ll see)
- dan is just so. self-blaming nothing to do with jaekyung yet but brother
- dan’s job prospects got fucked because of his previous boss, who was caught sexually assaulting him, but ended up getting him fired and spreading rumors about him. this contributes further to how desperate dan’s situation is hence why he is not given a meaningful choice (again, not ALL jaekyang’s fault)
- dan can’t afford to up and move somewhere where he might have better prospects idk how many times ill list down “he doesn’t have a real choice because he’s poor not because of jaekyung specifically although jaekyung doesn’t help”
- dan feeling unsafe everywhere. nothing to necessarily do with anything yet just an interesting detail
- dan is/would’ve been stuck between a rock and a hard place, getting beaten up by the loan sharks or getting raped or assaulted or whatever by jaekyung
- jaekyung lies to dan about his treatment to lure him to his appointment i guess you can argue dan should’ve used his common sense here but that feels victim blamey and if we can critique dan for lying about his experience we can certainly critique jaekyung for lying about why he was calling dan to his house
- dan says no to going to the apartment, jaekyung offers him more money for him to go (bribery more than coercion though lol but…considering that this is kind of a trap,)

chapter 2
- jaekyung…had someone else he was fucking already? who was willing? why switch to dan all of a sudden?
- dan again witnesses jaekyung use an disproportionate amount of physical violence (slamming guy’s head into a wall) AND a death threat against someone because of a slight provocation. again, this counts towards both “dan should’ve known better and left” and “dan likely (rightly) felt too intimidated to say no”
- jaekyung definitely does find dan physically attractive but we still don’t know why he decided to quit his previous partner for him
- jaekyung does try to get a vibe check on what dan might think/how he might feel about being propositioned
- the jinx in and of itself is a fundamentally fucking stupid plot device so let’s start there. we don’t know if it’s real or not we don’t get any real explanation for it other than that it exists. it exists to justify jaekyung’s sex-pesty behavior though, that’s for sure. you can interpret it as also another method of coercion—what he’s saying is that if he loses, it will have been dan’s fault. this of course puts a disproportionate amount of pressure on dan but maybe im getting ahead of myself
- jaekyung physically grabs dan. nothing violent yet though but this is yknow. erm
- jaekyung does indeed give dan the choice to leave if he doesn’t want to have sex But the added consequence is no money. as noted before this guy lied in the first place. also note the language use: “guess you don’t **need** that five grand after all” just…interesting
- again, dan’s circumstances make his yes not a meaningful yes. that isn’t specifically entirely jaekyung’s fault but ***jaekyung does not help.***

chapter 3
ch. 3
- jaekyung does indeed ask if dan has been with a man before. he follows up with “i suppose it doesn’t actually matter.” now again dan should’ve been honest he is responsible for that but also, jaekyung, if he actually gave a fuck, wouldn’t just assume things—especially with the non-answer dan gives, the hesitance he shows
- dan did just lie though. stupid bitch. you could say this counts against him but you could also attribute his feeling of having to lie to not only his own personal psychology but, again, the various shows of violence and intimidation jaekyung had performed beforehand
- jaekyung uses physical force on dan to get him out of the shower and throw him onto the bed after he takes too long in the shower. again dan ain’t sign up for allat. again jaekyung could’ve/should’ve checked in properly here but whatever it’s his character
- threatens to break dan’s ankle when he struggles and asks him to wait
- I GET THIS IS FANTASY BUT I DON’T CARE HOW EXPERIENCED SOMEONE IS YOU DO NOT SHOVE A COCK UP THEIR ASS NO PREP ESPECIALLY NOT A MONSTER COCK. THIS GUY JUST WANTED TO HURT HIM. “DISCOMFORT” DURING SEX MY ASS? NO PUN INTENDED?
- threatens violence again (“if you waste my time like that last little bitch, don’t expect to be sent home safe and sound”) when dan says he can’t actually go through with the sex, prompting dan to think of. the guy getting his face smashed into a wall.
- dan explicitly asks jaekyung “then how do i do this? if you just put it in, i think i’ll tear.” personally i once again think that this should have been a red flag to anyone who cares about the virginal status of their partner but. ok
- jaekyung says “last chance, no more mr. nice guy after this” which is another threat/intimidation tactic. he does tell dan to leave if he can’t handle prep. but this followed after the threat of getting his shit rocked if he’s too slow.
- do you really read all this and then read dan going “well i asked for it” and think “yep he sure did!” and not feel bad. at all. and like something isn’t right here.
- again jaekyung uses physical force on dan when he’s going too slow for his liking
- dan sure does ask for jaekyung to fuck his ass. after being roughly fingered
- dan tells jaekyung that it hurts and asks jaekyung to stop, jaekyung does not stop. jaekyung in fact proceeds to shove dan’s head into the mattress and say, “keep testing my patience, and i’ll smash your head in” followed by “just shut up and take it”

chapter 4
- dan tries to crawl away from jaekyung, jaekyung slams into him
- very hard pressed to read jaekyung’s response here as being one of concern/sympathy (“what the, are you crying? over that? i barely even put it in!”) it is if anything belittling. again dan is responsible for being honest but jaekyung is responsible for creating a space where he feels safe to be honest. besides that, jaekyung would’ve actually asked if he was okay instead of pounding into him
- jaekyung pounds into him, explicitly saying that he likes seeing dan cry, and that the tears won’t make him go easy on him
- jaekyung does…”check in” on dan, dan foolishly says he can take it.
- speaking of dan lying, when jaekyung says he’s had a bunch of cocks before, dan says that isn’t the case
- dan asks jaekyung to be gentler, jaekyung tells him to shut up and then goes harder and even covers his mouth so y’know even if he wanted to say no he couldn’t that’s very consensual to me

several different websites define rape, legally, to involve nonconsensual sexual intercourse (penetration) being done to another person by means of force—force being psychological coercion, threats, use of drugs, and/or use of physical force.

several websites define sexual assault (if/when there is a distinction between it and rape) as generally making contact with someone’s intimate body parts without their consent.

given that jaekyung used deception and intimidation (coercion) before if not also throughout their first interaction with one another, given that jaekyung repeatedly threatened physical violence and also used physical violence on dan, given that jaekyung penetrated dan, and given that dan repeatedly expressed, physically and verbally, his non-consent to jaekyung, only to have them all completely ignored if not responded to with even more threats and/or uses of physical violence—why would jaekyung’s actions against dan in at least these very first four chapters not fall under even the legal definition of rape?

Thank you so much for your contribution and saying so much of what I haven’t been able to say/get to because of the way these people are talking about this. I’m glad that I can help with breaking down these harmful narratives in any way I can.

Akaito August 2, 2024 11:31 pm (This comment).

Opens on DM to PQ,
Hey PQ,
Akaito recently posted a detailed analysis of the first four chapters. From what I saw, their analysis displays an advanced level of analytical writing. However, I didn’t read it all because I anticipated the same outcome as has been for months. Quickly, From my brief glance, they missed some details that would help and included extraneous information that wasn’t helpful.

Anticipated outcome.
I’m considering whether I should respond. Given your previous decision to avoid engagement with Akaito again because of how they treated you, No one wants to talk to someone who is always insulting them. I understand why you might prefer not to get involved. I know that any response will likely lead to the same issues as before—Akaito dismissing our points, attacking us, and making false claims about our statements.

Then, as usual, another aggressor will join in, leading to further attacks and harassment. Baileybot will likely return with more falsehoods, and the cycle will continue. It’s disheartening how they seem to take pride in harassing us, as if they’re boasting about their ability to undermine and belittle. Then pretend we caused it when they are the aggressors who are harassing people to have rape in a story. yikes. That is deeply troubking they would do this over and over just to harass people because they want rape to be in a story. shiver.

The pattern is clear: they seek to provoke and wear us down while boosting their own egos. Their behavior remains deeply troubling and toxic..

PQ,

I wonder if they will ever think what they are missing or leaving out. Maybe they should analyze it better.

what details did i leave out. what is the extraneous information. point it out. word for word. it’s all right there for you. tell me.

Shielded Guard said in reply to my comment “Saying Jinx is toxic does not excuse any abuse Dan has suffered. Same strawman arguments.” Let me clarify, shielded guard: I was saying that people were saying that Jinx is toxic AND DOES NOT CONTAIN abuse. Thus, excusing the abuse.

Shielded Guard also said “It is disheartening to see how certain individuals resort to bullying and harassment, using flawed arguments to do so”. I do not know how what I said constitutes bullying or harassment, we are in an open forum you can leave at any point and I have not used any threats or swear words. Belittling language: sure but that’s because PQ’s argument is literally collapsing in on itself THEY LITERALLY DEBUNKED THEMSELVES WITH AN ARTICLE THEY LINKED. Dan is a rape victim ACCORDING TO YOUR DEFINITION PQ!

I find it incredibly funny too that both PQ and SG (who I am going to pretend are two different people for the sake of argument) consider this a “serious topic for debate” when it’s literally just a rape fetish bl comic at the end of the day.
Shielded Guard said “These aggressors continue to employ tactics like deflection, personal attacks, and harassment, which have derailed the conversation.” No, the flimsy argument that has no basis in reality derailed the conversation.

Shielded Guard said “A living, breathing human being should not have to endure continuous personal attacks and harassment” okay then that living, breathing human can leave the forum if they can’t stand it anymore, it’s literally called the back button. I’m not standing on the street with PQ pointing a finger in their face, I am typing words into a puter system.

Shielded Guard said “Akaito, Haileybot, and the others here are harming people and abusing you”. Please explain how we are harming and abusing in a voluntary comment section. I am so confused. Also I have not used threatening language or that many curse words except in an exclamatory fashion. I simply called this person ridiculous in so many words and that somehow constitutes abuse? Why should I take their argument seriously when their argument is eating itself?

Shielded Guard said “You write politely, and they respond with hostility. Each attempt to communicate respectfully is met with further aggression. They are trying to force you into submission through relentless attacks.” They may write politely but what comes out is preposterous. You can tell someone that they are a human piece of feces whose race deserves a total and thorough elimination through “polite wording” it does not negate the fact that you told them they deserve genocide for being who they were born to be. The MEANING and INTENTION of your polite words matter and PQ is using “polite words” to try to claim that Jaekyung is not a rapist and I still don’t know why. Seriously, why is that important?

And I’m not really trying to force anyone into submission, I’d actually love it if PQ and SG unblocked me and actually replied to my comments instead of repeating their ChatGPT generated replies of “strawman argument” and “logical fallacy” over and over and expecting it to work. What is the definition of insanity again? LOL
Shielded Guard said “They have succeeded in embodying the worst traits, much like Jaekyung, who will never redeem themselves.” So you agree that Jaekyung is a terrible person? THANK GOD THAT’S ALL I WANTED

Also this is the link from PQ’s post about rape https://florinroebig.com/sexual-assault-guide/ and from PQ’s post: “forcing victim to perform sexual acts (i.e. oral penetration or other forms of sex) rape: unlawful sexual intercourse or penetration of the victim’s body by a body part or object” ← this is what Jaekyung does to Dan, PQ!!!! EXPLAIN YOURSELF!!!!!

PQ,
Since they think you are determined to prove it is not rape they think you love it.
They have to make you a lover of Jinx to attack you.
I guess the strawman, oh, the logical fallacies in the room with this aggressor right now.
It is okay I know Jinx is not your cup of tea. We are dealing with children who want to be right and think forcing you into submission through relentless attacks and failed arguments is "winning"

PQ,
The definitions effectively debunk the claims of rape in Jinx. It seems that in order to "win," they resort to personal attacks against you.

How does it debunk the claims. Answer me. Specifically. I gave you chapter summaries and details tell me specifically what I missed. Tell me how I’m wrong.

Let me also just say, I was talking to a friend from another country about this stuff and he mentioned that in his country, the term rape encompasses pretty much all forms of sexual assault/sexual abuse/rape INCLUDING fondling someone without consent and personally, I think that energy is a little better because I've had people respond to me opening up about my own sexual trauma with "well at least you weren't raped" and it was the worst thing anyone could say to me and multiple people have said that to me.

Please stop placing "rape" at the top of the totem pole and not the umbrella term of "rape" but the term that defines rape as "sexual penetration without consent". There are all types of sexual assault and abuse and they are ALL not okay and can cause ALL kinds of trauma in a person depending on the circumstances, environment, and age the person happens to be.

Why it's so important for Persistent Quill to argue that Jaekyung is "not" a rapist (when he actually is by their limited definition) is beyond me. I can only conclude it's because they think "rape" by their definition is the worst type of sexual assault and thus it's not fair to label Jaekyung as a rapist because maybe they're hoping Jaekyung can be redeemed. I can only wonder though, cause they blocked me :P

they're just saying words without actually showing evidence. How DOES it prove Jinx DOESN'T have rape?

Persistent Quill, Shielded Guard, how does Jinx not have rape and how does the article you linked prove that Jinx does not have rape and also, why is it so important to prove that Jinx does not have rape? Is there something significant to the world you're accomplishing by proving that Jinx doesn't have rape?

This was why it pissed me off so much when they kept bring up the legal definition like no one is talking about the legal definition we’re talking about CONNOTATIONS used by people and how it tangibly harms people and even if we’re trying to go by legal definitions, the language of the law is directly shaped and impacted by culture, it isn’t unshakeable or infallible, it is/can be just as fluid as anything else, and it can also fail to fully encapsulate people’s lived experiences. LIKE

I’m having a good laugh at the Baileybot nonsense. It’s funny how some people simplify things to the point of absurdity—like lumping all targets into one person. For the record, it was MD who actually mentioned the FBI over cyberstalking and not you, and it’s clear that the sockpuppet didn’t bother to research properly or can't handle many targets at one time.

Cyberstalking, just like in-person stalking, has legal consequences, and it’s taken seriously.

https://us.norton.com/blog/how-to/what-is-cyberstalking
Why is cyberstalking a crime?

Harassing or threatening someone in person has legal consequences, and so does committing these acts online. Stalking online is legally distinct from stalking in the real world, but both have laws preventing them.


How to report cyberstalking
If you encounter someone who’s cyberstalking another person, or you’re receiving threats, report it to the police immediately. Many police departments have cybercrime units that are trained to handle online crimes. In other instances, before contacting the authorities, here are a few steps to take:

Scan your device for spyware or other malware installed by a hacker.
Keep copies of any messages or images that prove the harassment.
Log the dates and times you received messages.
Report the cyberstalker if they escalate or you feel your safety is threatened.
The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) runs the Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3).
If Baileybot took a moment to search "How to report cyberstalking," they’d find that IC3 is indeed a resource for this kind of issue. But I think BB is acting that way because she is sockpuppet of the cyberstalkers.

Just wanted to clear that up. MD’s concern is legitimate and they are serious.

Shielded Guard said "Cyberstalking, just like in-person stalking, has legal consequences, and it’s taken seriously."

From the article they linked:
"Cyberstalking is when a cybercriminal uses email, direct messaging, or other electronic means to harass, scare, or threaten someone with physical harm. It takes different forms, including:

Tracking someone’s online activity or physical location

Stealing someone’s identity for financial gain

Making death threats or other overt threats of violence

Blackmailing a victim using personal information or photos

Making false accusations about a victim online

Doxxing a victim by publishing their private information online

Destroying or manipulating incriminating data by sending a virus to a victim’s devices

Posting derogatory statements about a victim publicly

Posing as a victim online to cause harm to their life or career

Sending threatening doctored photos or deepfakes of the victim or their family

^^^^^^ Which one of these things have we done? Please do post our comment and explain without ChatGPT generated words why it constitutes cyberstalking. Only thing you could claim is "making false accusations about victim online" and even then, we're not accusing, we're just speculating what the deal with Shielded Guard and Persistent Quill is. Who btw have blocked almost everyone in this comment forum but is still posting comments and replies. They can voluntarily leave.

If we're posting "derogatory statements", please point them out specifically. Have no idea what could be considered a "derogatory statement".

Other than that, I think we're good! No cyberstalking here, please go back to your scheduled program!

Also no one here has threatened physical harm, no one has your location, no one even has your ip or accounts or passwords etc. I haven't even looked at PQ or SG's profiles explicitly. What about what's going on in this public thread constitutes cyberstalking?

PQ,
You have another fan. Who loves you so much to be spreading misinformation and making some pretty harsh claims. Their argument seems to be rooted in misunderstanding and personal bias. They’re criticizing you and the fandom for defending a piece of fiction that they believe is problematic, but their approach and arguments don’t address the actual points of contention accurately.
The person criticizing you appears to be misunderstanding the arguments and focusing more on personal attacks rather than engaging with the actual points being discussed. The person making these claims appears to be using their own experience to invalidate others' views and contributions, which can be really damaging and unproductive. It’s also clear that they’re not engaging with the actual arguments being made but rather attacking individuals personally.
But they cooked and ate.

DarkenedHowl grabs a whip.

"My good friend @ANG3LG0R3 directed me here and good to see that brain rotting is still alive and kicking."
Swing the whip to harm someone. Slash.

"I am so confused on why people go to such lengths to insist that Jinx has no rape."
Maybe a respectful dialogue with help with that.

" thus this stupid fictional comic must be defended to the death."

Darkenedhowl gribs the whip in their hands, I have to pretend they are defending this to death as I beat someone into submit as i defend my opinion because I need rape to be in the story I hate so much.

"As someone who's experienced a "low level" form of sexual assault that cannot be legally defined as rape and has been traumatized by the experience, I find Persistent Quill to be not only a hack and a lazy writer but also, the point that they are defending is pretty pointless which is too bad because their name is "quill".
Slash. Slash. Slash. Slash. PQ you must be a good writer and they hate it. Why do they think you are defending this? They are beating you into submission because they are defending to have a story be labeled rape. I think it is lazy to attack people instead of enanging in a meaningful converstaion as it is harder to be productive.

" he is totally not abusing Dan to be very uneducated people who feel they have to perform social justice in their fandoms to be considered good people which is pretty sad. "
I never seen that but their opinion about othes is awful.

"Just enjoy your problematic fiction and admit it's problematic fiction (with rape) and we are all good!"

Again making you a fan to attack you. They are trying to control you. All the targets say it is problematic, so they are using a strawman here. But they are forcing their opinions on people. It will not be rape no matter how much they beat someone with a whip.

This is the one that Akaito says they cooked and ate? It’s unfortunate that instead of having a respectful and productive dialogue, they resort to harsh criticism and personal attacks to harm others.

PQ, This comment took me about 4 hours to write. It was up to 4 pages in Word. I am glad I wrote to you. I would have wasted my time otherwise. The discussion seems to be driven by personal bias, with individuals using their frustration to attack you rather than engaging in a fair dialogue.

It’s unfortunate that they’re resorting to bullying and trying to undermine you. Their approach seems to be more about tearing you down than addressing the actual issues. This kind of behavior is not only unproductive but also quite distressing to witness.

Please know that their attempts to harm you are failing, and their actions reflect poorly on them rather than on you. Keep doing what you’re doing and stay strong in the face of this negativity.

You keep not answering me. Answer me. Use specific evidence. What events of the story prove that Jaekyung did not rape Dannin the first four chapters of this Webtoon. Do you need me to copy paste my notes again?

"When we shift from writing to a person to speaking generally to others reading our messages, it indicates that we recognize there is no productive conversation possible with them and given a situation we could be merely facing harassment from them."

We will address the misinformation from the aggressors but we will not talk to them. We will not engage people in bad faith.

I’ve given you my analysis of the chapters. I’m asking you to clarify your viewpoint too, now, with evidence. Explain it to me. Let’s address the actual issue of whether or not there is rape in Jinx. Prove to me that there isn’t rape, prove to me that I’m wrong.

Again, Shielded Guard, how does Jinx not have rape according to the article you posted? Why is it important to prove Jaekyung does not commit rape? I will continue to ask every time you post your long posts trying to debunk me or others disagreeing with you.

It's very interesting that Shielded Guard is continuing to post in a topic thread while blocking almost all commenters including the author. Are they going to keep talking to themselves or will they actually engage in a discussion finally? I'm willing to talk with them, and I promise I'll only make one (1) joke at some point at their expense.

THEY BLOCKED ME?

I've provided you with the legal definition of rape and a summary of events that I think are relevant to the discussion at hand. Tell me if and how the events disagree with the legal definition of rape.

@PT did Akaito forget what happen?

"When we shift from writing to a person to speaking generally to others reading our messages, it indicates that we recognize there is no productive conversation possible with them and given a situation we could be merely facing harassment from them."

We will address the misinformation from the aggressors but we will not talk to them. We will not engage people in bad faith.


Akaito picked up the whip.

"I'll be honest, I was aggressive with you at first because not only did I find your responses to be repulsive, but also because I did immediately have the feeling that I was speaking to someone generating responses rather than someone actually using their own words."
Akaito starts to beat PQ with personal attacks and misinformation.. Slash Slash. We have explain they are not generating responses how many times. Akaito dismissing our words. Slash.

"One that I thought was arguing in a very soulless way about something so incredibly personal, so incredibly important, like rape and sexual assault."

Slash


"I went out of my way to explain how you were coming across,"
Slash with bias opinions.

"I wanted you to know and understand how you were sounding so that you would have the opportunity to change tactics."

Tones are subjective and determined by the reader's feelings That is their feelings and not the truth. SLASH.

"Several times I asked you clarifying questions, not because I was trying to be annoying or shut you down or immediately just to prove you wrong, but because I was trying to understand where you were coming from, because I was having genuine trouble understanding where you were coming from and why."

Slash with lies. Trying to make PQ the one in the wrong when Aka caused the problems with how they feel about things. Instead of talking they attacked.

"you responded by only continuing to point out the logical fallacies "
To stop the conversation from derailing and to be treated like a human.

Slash.
Slash.
Slash with a foolish argument on ChatGPT that don't reflect PQ behaviors.
Slash with a condictiory line.

"Your crime was talking about rape and sexual assault in an insensitive manner."
SLASH! what a lie. Does aka understand objective reporting? They seem like they have some undergrad experience. Their personal biases are getting in the way.


"Your crime was not being upfront with me."
Slash

"Your crime was not taking this conversation or any others you've been having with anyone else thus far seriously enough to engage with your own words and thoughts."

SLASH SLASH You are serious and you did engage with you own words and thoughts. Again, how many times should something be said to an English major for them to get it? it should not be as many times as it has been.

"Jaekyung raped Dan. ChatGPT is a terrible tool to use to engage in nuanced discussion. If you do not understand these things, I can only wish you luck in this life""

Slash Slash

Akaito is so wrapped up in that ChatGPT nonsense that they do not see what they are saying to a SA survivor. I am sorry for the harassment you are facing for being so thoughtful and polite. If this was reversed I don't think Aka would stay as calm and respectful as you have been dealing with harassment from them. They would probably attack and leave instead of trying to get some common ground and have a conversation.

Two other survivors of SA have agreed with me so far. 1 vs. 2. The ball is in your court. Answer me. Tell me why there is no rape in Jinx. I've provided you with the definitions. Here I am asking for the substance of your argument. Give it to me, use that whip of yours, bleed me out with it.

I thought they said they did but I guess they didn't lol

Persistent Quill did, Shielded Guardian hasn't yet.

Okay. I cleared some misunderstandings. I stopped on page 6. I read some of it but it sesms to be the same. I’ve spent a lot of time reviewing the comments and trying to address the misunderstandings, but it seems like we’re dealing with individuals who are more interested in personal attacks than in genuine dialogue.

I get they don't understand we don't talk to people acting in bad-faith. They need to address the issues without resorting to personal attacks and harassment. They need to show they are acting in good faith before I start talking to them. Furthermore, I think they should apologize to us to acknowledge how harmful and creepy they are being. I don't feel comfortable talking to them.
If they want answers they need to begin the process of restoring trust and respect. They lost that.

And I have to say they take anything to attack you. DarkenedHowl is taking where I corrected the sockpuppets misinformation and trying to apply it to now.

Baileybot page 4. "reminded me of something funny. PQ and his alts threatened to report his trolls to the FBI's Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3)" Reminded. Threatened. Past tense.

My comment page 5. mentioned. part tense.

The harassment started over a year ago.
The cyberstalking with stealing identities happened in February.
MD said this in March? The cyberstalking has been ongoing and Baileybot is a sockpuppet for the cyberstalkers.

Maybe that would help their confusing. They could had asked instead making foolish comments trying to debunk anything. That is when you know they are only here to fight and degrade others to feel about themselves.

Really? "Two other survivors of SA have agreed with me so far. 1 vs. 2." The argument about comparing survivor experiences is unproductive. It’s not about winning or having the most survivors agree with you; it’s about addressing the issue respectfully and accurately. Using survivor experiences to argue who is “right” is not only harmful but also bizarre and counterproductive.
If that is things are decided, which is not, thankfully, I wished Rose was here. Then they would have a rape survivor saying this is not rape. She was raped. That is so bizarre. Wait Rose would never use her experience for this. I am leaving this conversation until i see them acting in good faith but this may bring in more bad-faith actors. I am not interested in being harassed for them to feel better about themselves.

Oh so you didn't even READ Jinx! Gotcha
Cool, take some time away from the thread, do that.
Anyways, Jinx does have rape in it and PQ literally debunked themselves. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

All the other times I asked you to respond to me directly, respond to my questions, and you pick the one time I say something slightly off-beat but true to try to discredit me. That's disingenuous. Here is my chapter summary and my definitions again. Rather than using respectability politics and tone policing me, point out to me where and why and how I am wrong.

chapter 1
- dan witnesses jaekyung uncontrollably beat the shit outta someone off the bat in ch. 1, contributing to preexisting fear of physical violence from him. granted though this was not jaekyung’s intention (debatable honestly) and does also count towards why dan could’ve/should’ve known to say no to the agreement
- jaekyung is just overall physically intimidating whether he’s trying to be or not. this isn’t his fault but there’s no question that he uses this to try to get his way in situations
- uh. dan was hired as a pt. not even by jaekyung himself but by his manager? ch. 1
- dan is there for the conversation about jaekyung having knocked the previous pt out. point for he should’ve/could’ve left earlier, but also point for jaekyung (inadvertently here, granted) using threats of physical violence to intimidate, which could contribute to a coerced yes later
- dan comes to the conclusion that if he doesn’t do well, he will have physical violence used against him. jaekyung’s manager basically confirms this saying as long as dan doesn’t do anything to get on his nerves, he’ll be fine
- dan has a history of being physically abused, as such he will do anything he can to avoid it happening. that said jaekyung doesn’t know about this at this point (ch. 1)
- personally this…i feel like jaekyung picks out dan as his next target precisely because he’s a “little wimp” as he describes him after that first sesh
- as stated before dan is having to work multiple jobs to maintain himself which again highlights the sheer power differential between these two (can i clarify and say—jaekyang is not solely responsible for the sex being ultimately nonconsenual if that makes sense and i feel like this is what i was really trying to argue. we’ll see)
- dan is just so. self-blaming nothing to do with jaekyang yet but brother
- dan’s job prospects got fucked because of his previous boss, who was caught sexually assaulting him, but ended up getting him fired and spreading rumors about him. this contributes further to how desperate dan’s situation is hence why he is not given a meaningful choice (again, not ALL jaekyang’s fault)
- dan can’t afford to up and move somewhere where he might have better prospects idk how many times ill list down “he doesn’t have a real choice because he’s poor not because of jaekyung specifically although jaekyung doesn’t help”
- dan feeling unsafe everywhere. nothing to necessarily do with anything yet just an interesting detail
- dan is/would’ve been stuck between a rock and a hard place, getting beaten up by the loan sharks or getting raped or assaulted or whatever by jaekyung
- jaekyung lies to dan about his treatment to lure him to his appointment i guess you can argue dan should’ve used his common sense here but that feels victim blamey and if we can critique dan for lying about his experience we can certainly critique jaekyung for lying about why he was calling dan to his house
- dan says no to going to the apartment, jaekyung offers him more money for him to go (bribery more than coercion though lol but…considering that this is kind of a trap,)

chapter 2
- jaekyung…had someone else he was fucking already? who was willing? why switch to dan all of a sudden?
- dan again witnesses jaekyung use an disproportionate amount of physical violence (slamming guy’s head into a wall) AND a death threat against someone because of a slight provocation. again, this counts towards both “dan should’ve known better and left” and “dan likely (rightly) felt too intimidated to say no”
- jaekyung definitely does find dan physically attractive but we still don’t know why he decided to quit his previous partner for him
- jaekyung does try to get a vibe check on what dan might think/how he might feel about being propositioned
- the jinx in and of itself is a fundamentally fucking stupid plot device so let’s start there. we don’t know if it’s real or not we don’t get any real explanation for it other than that it exists. it exists to justify jaekyung’s sex-pesty behavior though, that’s for sure. you can interpret it as also another method of coercion—what he’s saying is that if he loses, it will have been dan’s fault. this of course puts a disproportionate amount of pressure on dan but maybe im getting ahead of myself
- jaekyung physically grabs dan. nothing violent yet though but this is yknow. erm
- jaekyung does indeed give dan the choice to leave if he doesn’t want to have sex But the added consequence is no money. as noted before this guy lied in the first place. also note the language use: “guess you don’t **need** that five grand after all” just…interesting
- again, dan’s circumstances make his yes not a meaningful yes. that isn’t specifically entirely jaekyung’s fault but ***jaekyung does not help.***

chapter 3
ch. 3
- jaekyung does indeed ask if dan has been with a man before. he follows up with “i suppose it doesn’t actually matter.” now again dan should’ve been honest he is responsible for that but also, jaekyung, if he actually gave a fuck, wouldn’t just assume things—especially with the non-answer dan gives, the hesitance he shows
- dan did just lie though. stupid bitch. you could say this counts against him but you could also attribute his feeling of having to lie to not only his own personal psychology but, again, the various shows of violence and intimidation jaekyung had performed beforehand
- jaekyung uses physical force on dan to get him out of the shower and throw him onto the bed after he takes too long in the shower. again dan ain’t sign up for allat. again jaekyung could’ve/should’ve checked in properly here but whatever it’s his character
- threatens to break dan’s ankle when he struggles and asks him to wait
- I GET THIS IS FANTASY BUT I DON’T CARE HOW EXPERIENCED SOMEONE IS YOU DO NOT SHOVE A COCK UP THEIR ASS NO PREP ESPECIALLY NOT A MONSTER COCK. THIS GUY JUST WANTED TO HURT HIM. “DISCOMFORT” DURING SEX MY ASS? NO PUN INTENDED?
- threatens violence again (“if you waste my time like that last little bitch, don’t expect to be sent home safe and sound”) when dan says he can’t actually go through with the sex, prompting dan to think of. the guy getting his face smashed into a wall.
- dan explicitly asks jaekyung “then how do i do this? if you just put it in, i think i’ll tear.” personally i once again think that this should have been a red flag to anyone who cares about the virginal status of their partner but. ok
- jaekyung says “last chance, no more mr. nice guy after this” which is another threat/intimidation tactic. he does tell dan to leave if he can’t handle prep. but this followed after the threat of getting his shit rocked if he’s too slow.
- do you really read all this and then read dan going “well i asked for it” and think “yep he sure did!” and not feel bad. at all. and like something isn’t right here.
- again jaekyung uses physical force on dan when he’s going too slow for his liking
- dan sure does ask for jaekyung to fuck his ass. after being roughly fingered
- dan tells jaekyung that it hurts and asks jaekyung to stop, jaekyung does not stop. jaekyung in fact proceeds to shove dan’s head into the mattress and say, “keep testing my patience, and i’ll smash your head in” followed by “just shut up and take it”

chapter 4
- dan tries to crawl away from jaekyung, jaekyung slams into him
- very hard pressed to read jaekyung’s response here as being one of concern/sympathy (“what the, are you crying? over that? i barely even put it in!”) it is if anything belittling. again dan is responsible for being honest but jaekyung is responsible for creating a space where he feels safe to be honest. besides that, jaekyung would’ve actually asked if he was okay instead of pounding into him
- jaekyung pounds into him, explicitly saying that he likes seeing dan cry, and that the tears won’t make him go easy on him
- jaekyung does…”check in” on dan, dan foolishly says he can take it.
- speaking of dan lying, when jaekyung says he’s had a bunch of cocks before, dan says that isn’t the case
- dan asks jaekyung to be gentler, jaekyung tells him to shut up and then goes harder and even covers his mouth so y’know even if he wanted to say no he couldn’t that’s very consensual to me

given that jaekyung used deception and intimidation (coercion) before if not also throughout their first interaction with one another, given that jaekyung repeatedly threatened physical violence and also used physical violence on dan, given that jaekyung penetrated dan, and given that dan repeatedly expressed, physically and verbally, his non-consent to jaekyung, only to have them all completely ignored if not responded to with even more threats and/or uses of physical violence—why would jaekyung’s actions against dan in at least these very first four chapters not fall under even the legal definition of rape?

@Sg. I love their stories they make up.

I have not read all your comments but don’t hold your breath. As soon as you say something they will insult you

** As a reminder someone tried and Aka told them they are full of shit. They want to be right and the facts don’t matter to them.

and Persistent Quill is back right when Shielded Guard left. Yaaaay......

So curious how that works, isn't it. What a wonderful friendship they share, covering each other's backs. Shall we write a BL about this lovely couple?

Hey, Shielded Guard, I see your friend Persistent Quill has returned, even though they've blocked me. Can you please ask them to go read and evaluate my notes on the first four chapters of Jinx, point out to me specifically where I'm wrong/what details I've missed, and have them answer my question as to how and why what took place between Jaekyung and Dan wasn't rape? I'd also appreciate it if you clarified to them that I do in fact care about the facts of the matter. I think that is made abundantly, evidently clear by the fact that I was willing to go out of my way to go reread the first four chapters in case I forgot anything, take notes on those first four chapters, and research several different legal definitions of both the terms rape and sexual assault. Here, I will paste my notes and my question again, so you can forward it to them for me. Eagerly looking forward to your replies.

chapter 1
- dan witnesses jaekyung uncontrollably beat the shit outta someone off the bat in ch. 1, contributing to preexisting fear of physical violence from him. granted though this was not jaekyung’s intention (debatable honestly) and does also count towards why dan could’ve/should’ve known to say no to the agreement
- jaekyung is just overall physically intimidating whether he’s trying to be or not. this isn’t his fault but there’s no question that he uses this to try to get his way in situations
- uh. dan was hired as a pt. not even by jaekyung himself but by his manager? ch. 1
- dan is there for the conversation about jaekyung having knocked the previous pt out. point for he should’ve/could’ve left earlier, but also point for jaekyung (inadvertently here, granted) using threats of physical violence to intimidate, which could contribute to a coerced yes later
- dan comes to the conclusion that if he doesn’t do well, he will have physical violence used against him. jaekyung’s manager basically confirms this saying as long as dan doesn’t do anything to get on his nerves, he’ll be fine
- dan has a history of being physically abused, as such he will do anything he can to avoid it happening. that said jaekyung doesn’t know about this at this point (ch. 1)
- personally this…i feel like jaekyung picks out dan as his next target precisely because he’s a “little wimp” as he describes him after that first sesh
- as stated before dan is having to work multiple jobs to maintain himself which again highlights the sheer power differential between these two (can i clarify and say—jaekyang is not solely responsible for the sex being ultimately nonconsenual if that makes sense and i feel like this is what i was really trying to argue. we’ll see)
- dan is just so. self-blaming nothing to do with jaekyang yet but brother
- dan’s job prospects got fucked because of his previous boss, who was caught sexually assaulting him, but ended up getting him fired and spreading rumors about him. this contributes further to how desperate dan’s situation is hence why he is not given a meaningful choice (again, not ALL jaekyang’s fault)
- dan can’t afford to up and move somewhere where he might have better prospects idk how many times ill list down “he doesn’t have a real choice because he’s poor not because of jaekyung specifically although jaekyung doesn’t help”
- dan feeling unsafe everywhere. nothing to necessarily do with anything yet just an interesting detail
- dan is/would’ve been stuck between a rock and a hard place, getting beaten up by the loan sharks or getting raped or assaulted or whatever by jaekyung
- jaekyung lies to dan about his treatment to lure him to his appointment i guess you can argue dan should’ve used his common sense here but that feels victim blamey and if we can critique dan for lying about his experience we can certainly critique jaekyung for lying about why he was calling dan to his house
- dan says no to going to the apartment, jaekyung offers him more money for him to go (bribery more than coercion though lol but…considering that this is kind of a trap,)

chapter 2
- jaekyung…had someone else he was fucking already? who was willing? why switch to dan all of a sudden?
- dan again witnesses jaekyung use an disproportionate amount of physical violence (slamming guy’s head into a wall) AND a death threat against someone because of a slight provocation. again, this counts towards both “dan should’ve known better and left” and “dan likely (rightly) felt too intimidated to say no”
- jaekyung definitely does find dan physically attractive but we still don’t know why he decided to quit his previous partner for him
- jaekyung does try to get a vibe check on what dan might think/how he might feel about being propositioned
- the jinx in and of itself is a fundamentally fucking stupid plot device so let’s start there. we don’t know if it’s real or not we don’t get any real explanation for it other than that it exists. it exists to justify jaekyung’s sex-pesty behavior though, that’s for sure. you can interpret it as also another method of coercion—what he’s saying is that if he loses, it will have been dan’s fault. this of course puts a disproportionate amount of pressure on dan but maybe im getting ahead of myself
- jaekyung physically grabs dan. nothing violent yet though but this is yknow. erm
- jaekyung does indeed give dan the choice to leave if he doesn’t want to have sex But the added consequence is no money. as noted before this guy lied in the first place. also note the language use: “guess you don’t **need** that five grand after all” just…interesting
- again, dan’s circumstances make his yes not a meaningful yes. that isn’t specifically entirely jaekyung’s fault but ***jaekyung does not help.***

chapter 3
ch. 3
- jaekyung does indeed ask if dan has been with a man before. he follows up with “i suppose it doesn’t actually matter.” now again dan should’ve been honest he is responsible for that but also, jaekyung, if he actually gave a fuck, wouldn’t just assume things—especially with the non-answer dan gives, the hesitance he shows
- dan did just lie though. stupid bitch. you could say this counts against him but you could also attribute his feeling of having to lie to not only his own personal psychology but, again, the various shows of violence and intimidation jaekyung had performed beforehand
- jaekyung uses physical force on dan to get him out of the shower and throw him onto the bed after he takes too long in the shower. again dan ain’t sign up for allat. again jaekyung could’ve/should’ve checked in properly here but whatever it’s his character
- threatens to break dan’s ankle when he struggles and asks him to wait
- I GET THIS IS FANTASY BUT I DON’T CARE HOW EXPERIENCED SOMEONE IS YOU DO NOT SHOVE A COCK UP THEIR ASS NO PREP ESPECIALLY NOT A MONSTER COCK. THIS GUY JUST WANTED TO HURT HIM. “DISCOMFORT” DURING SEX MY ASS? NO PUN INTENDED?
- threatens violence again (“if you waste my time like that last little bitch, don’t expect to be sent home safe and sound”) when dan says he can’t actually go through with the sex, prompting dan to think of. the guy getting his face smashed into a wall.
- dan explicitly asks jaekyung “then how do i do this? if you just put it in, i think i’ll tear.” personally i once again think that this should have been a red flag to anyone who cares about the virginal status of their partner but. ok
- jaekyung says “last chance, no more mr. nice guy after this” which is another threat/intimidation tactic. he does tell dan to leave if he can’t handle prep. but this followed after the threat of getting his shit rocked if he’s too slow.
- do you really read all this and then read dan going “well i asked for it” and think “yep he sure did!” and not feel bad. at all. and like something isn’t right here.
- again jaekyung uses physical force on dan when he’s going too slow for his liking
- dan sure does ask for jaekyung to fuck his ass. after being roughly fingered
- dan tells jaekyung that it hurts and asks jaekyung to stop, jaekyung does not stop. jaekyung in fact proceeds to shove dan’s head into the mattress and say, “keep testing my patience, and i’ll smash your head in” followed by “just shut up and take it”

chapter 4
- dan tries to crawl away from jaekyung, jaekyung slams into him
- very hard pressed to read jaekyung’s response here as being one of concern/sympathy (“what the, are you crying? over that? i barely even put it in!”) it is if anything belittling. again dan is responsible for being honest but jaekyung is responsible for creating a space where he feels safe to be honest. besides that, jaekyung would’ve actually asked if he was okay instead of pounding into him
- jaekyung pounds into him, explicitly saying that he likes seeing dan cry, and that the tears won’t make him go easy on him
- jaekyung does…”check in” on dan, dan foolishly says he can take it.
- speaking of dan lying, when jaekyung says he’s had a bunch of cocks before, dan says that isn’t the case
- dan asks jaekyung to be gentler, jaekyung tells him to shut up and then goes harder and even covers his mouth so y’know even if he wanted to say no he couldn’t that’s very consensual to me

several different websites define rape, legally, to involve nonconsensual sexual intercourse (penetration) being done to another person by means of force—force being psychological coercion, threats, use of drugs, and/or use of physical force.

several websites define sexual assault (if/when there is a distinction between it and rape) as generally making contact with someone’s intimate body parts without their consent.

given that jaekyung used deception and intimidation (coercion) before if not also throughout their first interaction with one another, given that jaekyung repeatedly threatened physical violence and also used physical violence on dan, given that jaekyung penetrated dan, and given that dan repeatedly expressed, physically and verbally, his non-consent to jaekyung, only to have them all completely ignored if not responded to with even more threats and/or uses of physical violence—why would jaekyung’s actions against dan in at least these very first four chapters not fall under even the legal definition of rape?

how about instead of seeing what stuff SG and PQ say, we just talk to each other, yeah? See I'm interested about your opinion about whether or not you think Jinx is similar to Painter of the Night if you've read or heard of that and if you can tell the difference between the two?

Oh I'm going to keep pressing them, personally. But we can do two things at once. That said, I haven't read Painter of the Night in a hot second (like, it has to have been years now, tbh I don't really read BL Manhwa much at all anymore this was just. a particular case of my wretched curiosity and desire to be right dooming me) and I never finished it, so I can't really compare the two. From what little I do remember, though, I feel as if it likely struggled with the same things that Jinx does—a story which has genuinely interesting and worthwhile themes to explore, but sacrifices those things in the interest of creating a much less interesting, much less believable love story between two people who for all intents and purposes not at all be with each other. Like isn't there a wildly unbalanced power dynamic in that one, too?

There is indeed but I am friends with people who have read it entirely and they can admit that there was abuse and rape but also that the redemption they did for Sanho was worthwhile FOR THEM but of course, it would make sense if people don't wanna keep reading.

I wasn't getting as enraged at it as I was at Jinx because of that assurance maybe and I think also with the agreement that yeah, this has problematic sex stuff in it. The reason Jinx has been infuriating to me is because of all the people who try to bend reality.

It's kind of the same frustration I have with ACOTAR (A Court of Thorns and Roses series) where people deny the actual abuse that one character did to the other and claim people don't like it because "the main couple are grey morally characters" no I don't like it because the guy sexually abused his future girl and then gaslit her into believing it was for her own protection when he literally didn't need to do all that nonsense.

LMAOOO They really just googled how to report cyberstalking and didn't think to search what the IC3 actually does. No, idiot, they do not pursue cases where no monetary harm or bodily threats have been made. Chasing trolls on a manga site would be waste of federal resources <<<< This is how they "research" everything. This is why their responses lack substance. They don't care about understanding the material. They just want a google link to spam and a quote to copypaste.

Yes you would be wasting your time arguing with me, because I always look the other way when people give me proof of Jaekyung clearly raping Dan. I am demented on a level you wouldn't understand as I have all the time in the world to waste on Mangago. I have no job or kids or a significant other that I claim I have. The proof is in this comment section, I am always lurking and responding without missing a beat. I was formally known as Morning diamonds, the rape defender and self admitted pedophile.

I didn't notice how long this thread was oops And that guy has actually tried to differentiate different kinds of pedophilia to excuse himself for talking to a 16yo inappropriately here on mangago. he was so serious too, he even started by denying rape AND sexual assault at first, but after way too many people started shitting on him he settled for SA. Just like how he denied using chatgpt for the longest time until it was more than obvious and embarrassing he was using it. That's how his brain works, even when he's always in the wrong, by having the last word he thinks he's correct

That's the account he created to impersonate and harass someone, then a minor, then changed it to several other chatgpt generated names and now this LMAOO HE ALWAYS COMES BACK BACKING HIMSELF UP WHEN HE FEELS THREATENED

His rape crisis counselor is literally his alt account TMSM where he, still to this day, proudly stands by his opinion that women fantasizing about rape is normal and healthy blocking everyone who comments on that thread leaving only all his alts account to spam the replies. To support that bs article he believes in, he created a fake rape victim BelovedRose to garner sympathy then coming to his main accounts' defense that what Jaekyung did to Dan is nowhere near rape, he was obviously caught by everyone for using alts. He would do that, but when actual victims of rape try to have a civil discussion, he would harass and mock them and disappear when both of us shared links to the exact panels where Mingwa depicted rape.

This comment was my last comment. The comments that follow as "Persistent Quill" are from a cyberstalker attempting to steal my identity. They are spreading falsehoods and pretending to be their targets, engaging in deflection and gaslighting. Please don't engage with these comments. I will change my name each time they copy me to avoid further confusion.

The harassment here is from a group that can't accept differing opinions, resorting to cyberstalking to silence or force others into their views. This behavior is immature and harmful.

I do take into consideration, this topic has people from that hate group, and since Akaito is claiming they will continue to "press" us, it's clear they are close to the cyberstalkers who thinks the same way. Who makes trying to have conversations equal to being "pressed"? Who cyberstalks to force people into an opinion with falsehoods and false claims? It's unsettling to want to press someone, especially to cyberstalk them with falsehoods.

Let's avoid further conflict and focus on respectful and constructive discussions.

The fact Morning diamonds has ignored your 10+ requests to refute your chap analyses after you politely asked and pasted it so many times it feels like deja vu all over again That's typical of him he would make up bullshit excuses and leave AS SOON as the facts are shared after a long back and forth. He and his alts just conveniently need to leave then. He did this to me and I saw this happen so many times. You're a boss bitch

LMAOO Now these new users whom MD hasn't talked to yet are ALSO ME How many accounts does that make? over 50 that I own? Or maybe just maybe the reason that literally NO ONE is by your side (and the fact that you need to log into alt accounts since the comments opened) is because your rape defending views are not shared by everyone else? I know yourself that you'd feel too embarrassed to acknowledge that everyone is a seperate person. The fact that I still never DMed Bailey and only knew of her after she outed you for attempting to groom her and your sole explanation is that we conspired together proves to me that it's all true. If the public replies you made claiming paedophilia is 13 and below wasn't enough Thanks tho for always leaving when you can't yap your way out of disproving Jaekyung raped Dan tho, you've always been predictable. Reverse psychology works so well on you too.

Chatgpt pwease genewate me 10 mowe cwool 2 wowded usernames pwease :3 These scawy people aw back :cc

@everyone.
I am not Morning Diamonds. The cyberstalkers are obsessed with Morning Diamonds and are spreading false information. They ignore how Akaito treated me. The supposed 'polite' requests were not sincere, as Akaito consistently attacked me and others, telling someone else they were 'full of shit.' Akaito shuts people down with hostile behavior as the cyberstalkers do. In those situations, Morning Diamonds had already left the conversation or was being attacked. Morning Diamonds only has two accounts, and one of them can't be accessed. The cyberstalkers are playing the same intimidation tactics as always.
It is Akaito’s fault like many others why we leave. We don’t need be in an unproductive situation with only harassment and insincerity with they are “polite” after insulting others. Noted SG gave terms for Akaito before SG engaged with it. Akaito fell short. Showing it is Akaito’s fault no one talked to them about their summary. We left to protect ourselves from harassment.
Claiming someone is a 'boss bitch' while spreading falsehoods and engaging in harassment is not something to be proud of. This kind of behavior only perpetuates a toxic and harmful environment. Please be aware and don't engage with their misinformation.

You were clear! This shows the cyberstalkers are spreading misinformation and falsehoods on their targets.
Akaito did not try. Akaito is not interested in a conversation. They only want to harass us to feel better about themselves.

The projection is crazy as always The one who never answers questions or engages in discussion let alone a civil conversation is talking about the people who were more than patient and polite with him. That's what a huge ego that refuses to leave his hill does to someone. And when that hill consists of denying rape to a fictional and real people, it becomes more concerning. I just read this thread, and you aka Morning diamonds (another point you're being in denial of bc your past username you've carried for years is so notorious and hated but you will never be able to start over) are guilty of everything you're accusing the other users of doing. I know you're aware of that

Embarrassing as hell to still be talking to your alt account, you'd look slightly less worse if you just took it to the chin that you have exactly 0 supporters. But I guess you got used to that seeing as you've been taking solace by faking chats with yourself.

The last comment from "Determined. Writer" is from a cyberstalker attempting to steal my identity. They are spreading falsehoods and pretending to be their targets, engaging in deflection and gaslighting. Please don't engage with these comments. I will change my name each time they copy me to avoid further confusion.

They will copy this one too. They probably will copy and paste this post. So look at the accounts. We have different account creations and have different topics. They are aggressive and hostile obsessed with their targets as their targets try to engage in respectful conversation.
Morning diamonds account isn’t a year old yet. Lol. Their stories are funny and fantasy.

Intimidation? Are you saying you're intimidated that I'm bringing up facts here?

I couldn't keep agreeing with akaito all this thread otherwise I would have spammed tf out of this. The way she was picking you apart and refuting you so calmly girl that's the definition of boss bitch and you mad as hell the only thing you're called is just a bitch You silenced yourself because you couldn't keep up with her, you dread engaging people like her who see right through your bullshit. I saw this shit happen so many times I can't even keeo count: people who were more than patient and civil with you and because you hate being proven right, you insult them then leave without being able to disprove them because everyone include you know you cant.

proven wrong There's no instance you're right BAHAHAHAH

Hello, Persistent Quill,

I see you have blocked me but are still posting under this thread. I understand that our previous interactions have been contentious, and I want to address that. I was not close to anyone prior to this discussion and I would not describe our current relationship as “close” either. However, I am committed to avoiding further conflict and focusing on respectful and constructive discussions.

I would like to engage with the chapter analysis I have provided. Could you please tell me if and where I’m missing something in my chapter analysis? Specifically, I am looking for your insights on where I might have gone wrong and how I may have come to the wrong conclusion about Jaekyung having raped Dan in the first four chapters at least, with evidence from Jinx to support your points.

I acknowledge that I have made various faults throughout our discussion, not only in misremembering certain details of Jinx but also in my approach towards you. I was very aggressive. I am willing to dial that back, and I hope that my response thus far communicates that much.

To ensure accuracy, I reread the first four chapters, took notes, including some direct quotes, and researched various (American) legal definitions of the terms rape and sexual assault. My goal is to focus on the substance of the discussion and understand your perspective better.

Would it be helpful for you if I pasted my analysis again? I am open to being wrong and genuinely want to understand your viewpoint.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

And, ah, for clarity, to no one in particular, I would like to be referred to with they/them or he/him pronouns. Thank you for understanding.

he will say you were being rude and excuse himself into not answer, because he CANT

tho I can't wait to see what he comes up with bc he's been dodging this exact question for MONTHS

@everyone

I am writing to address the ongoing harassment and misinformation being spread by cyberstalkers and to clarify recent interactions:

Misrepresentation and Harassment
The cyberstalkers have consistently misrepresented our interactions and intentions. They claim that we have been aggressive or insulting, which is untrue. The harassment has been one-sided, marked by repeated insults and personal attacks from the cyberstalkers over the past year. Despite this, we have consistently aimed for respectful dialogue. It is true that some targets have resorted to pretending to cyberbully the cyberbullies to make them aware of their actions. Unfortunately, this approach backfired, leading to increased harassment and attempts to tarnish the targets' reputations.

False Claims About Akaito
We acknowledge that Akaito has admitted to being aggressive on multiple occasions. Despite the claims of calmness by the cyberstalkers, who consistently dismiss others' actions who act like them to spread misinformation, Akaito’s aggressive tactics and personal insults towards individuals—including ManhwaSpicy (MS) and my friend (the first PQ here)—are shown. Both MS and my friend have chosen not to engage further with Akaito due to their history of hostility. Green Leaf and TM have also observed Akaito’s behavior and subsequently blocked them. The current stance of the main target on engaging with Akaito remains unclear. This would be who they say is MD or Morning Diamonds who is not Morning Diamond anymore.

Clarifying Our Stance
Our decision to disengage from Akaito and other aggressive participants is not due to an inability to counter arguments but is a response to ongoing harassment. We have been subjected to continuous insults and harassment, and our choice to stop engaging is a measure to avoid further victimization, not an indication of defeat or silencing. If Akaito had endured the same harassment as our friends, would they have continued to engage or given up earlier? Or would they be like my friend and try to have a real conversation for many hours enduring harassment from Akaito. If anyone is a boss bitch that would go to my friend who endured harassment and stayed calm trying to have a conversation. The term "bitch" used by the cyberstalkers reflects their intent more than the actual meaning, as their behavior has not matched what they are saying. Bitch has many meanings.

Setting Boundaries
We will not address or engage with Akaito or any individual who has demonstrated a pattern of aggression and disrespect. Our focus remains on addressing harassment and ensuring that our interactions are respectful and constructive. We request that others recognize this boundary and respect our decision to avoid further engagement with those who have harassed us.

Call for Respectful Dialogue
We invite anyone who wishes to discuss issues respectfully to do so. However, we will not entertain discussions with individuals who engage in harassment or misrepresentation. The harassment by cyberstalkers and the aggressive behavior by certain individuals have been clear, and our priority is to maintain a respectful and harassment-free environment.

Additional Note
While we acknowledge Akaito’s admission of responsibility for their actions—contrasting with members of the hate group who cannot see or take responsibility for their behavior—we remain skeptical due to their history of aggression. Genuine good faith would be demonstrated through consistent respectful behavior, which has not been consistently observed from Akaito. Although Akaito has shown good faith at times, their subsequent insults towards MS undermine these gestures. Engaging meaningfully is challenging when identity theft and spam attacks complicate the discourse. it is easy to tell the cyberstalkers from the targets. The Cyberstalkers mock, harm, and misrepresent targets, making constructive dialogue difficult.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation in maintaining a respectful and constructive environment.

Bahahah of course, as expected, you will conveniently leave your ass after yapping for days the precise moment you're confronted by the source material of Jinx. As you've done many times before, what a pussy. typing a whole ass novel all to say you have no counter arguments. Not like you already accidentally blurted out yourself that Jinx has rape

I know why though, when you were cornered into explaining your grooming allegations aka proof from multiple people, you only dug your grave ''Pedophilia is 13 and below'' ''I couldn't confirm she was actually a minor. She could have been an adult. I didn't ask for her ID therefore it wasn't predatory to ask for pics in dm'' ''She's saying she's a minor but no one can prove it therefore not pedophilia'',.. You know you'd dig another grave if you said anything other than insults and projections so you draw the line at actually addressing the topic at hand

Attention Everyone,

It seems that there has been another round of misinformation and harassment from the cyberstalkers. I want to clarify and debunk the latest claims being made:

1. Misrepresentation of Engagement:
The claim that we "conveniently left" when confronted with source material from Jinx is false. We had already ceased direct engagement with Akaito when they posted the source material. Our decision to disengage was not due to any inability to counter arguments but a strategic choice to avoid further harassment. We were not confronted directly with the source material in a manner that would require immediate response.

2. False Allegations and Misuse of Terms:
The accusations regarding grooming and pedophilia are based on a deliberate misrepresentation of the situation. The cyberstalkers have used a sockpuppet account to fabricate claims and create a false narrative. They incorrectly labeled interactions as pedophilia and misused terms to create confusion. The actual facts are that there was no direct messaging involved, and any claims of inappropriate behavior have been thoroughly debunked. The term "pedophilia" was misused in an attempt to frame the target, which has been disproven.

3. Repeated Nonsense and Discredited Claims:
The latest comments are just a repeat of the same debunked nonsense that has been circulating since March. The cyberstalkers continue to spread falsehoods and refuse to acknowledge the evidence proving them wrong. Their persistence in these baseless accusations is driven by their inability to address the facts and the ongoing exposure of their deceptive tactics.

4. The Pattern of Harassment:
This behavior is part of a larger pattern of harassment where the cyberstalkers resort to personal attacks, misinformation, and deflection. They aim to distract from the real issues and avoid addressing the valid points raised by their targets.

In summary, the recent claims are nothing new and have been thoroughly debunked. The cyberstalkers are repeating their baseless arguments because they are unable to counter the factual information provided. We continue to focus on maintaining a respectful and constructive environment while addressing the harassment and misinformation spread by these individuals.

We all have eyes and the thread is public, nobody was harassing you the only harasser was you but we don't talk ab the obv ;) And we can also see you conveniently exited as soon as you were presented with the panels of Dan being raped. Being asked politely dozens of times is harassment? Ignoring the person you're talking to is civil? Deja vu? Because you did that to me many times before. It's the magic word to shoo you away because you always do. You have no issues flapping your gums for miles like rn about anything but the core topic because ye CANT

It’s clear that there’s been a lot of misinformation and misrepresentation. To clarify, the targets have not harassed anyone. Any claims suggesting that we exited or avoided discussions about panels where Dan is depicted as being raped are unfounded. We do not engage with all posts by cyberstalkers and, if such panels exist, they are likely based on misunderstandings, misrepresentations, or outright fakes. I don't know what they are talking about. It is noted they are making all the targets one person again. Normally, when they do this it is Morning Diamonds they are talking to. I do not recall any related incidents, nor has MD mentioned anything comparable about panels or content being referenced, that did not get bebunked. The only thing I can recall is something on TM's post but all the panels were not rape.

I give them a chance today but despite reading more posts today then I have since March to attempt to understand the ongoing issues, but the same debunked nonsense is being recycled. This persistence suggests a deliberate attempt to mislead rather than seek genuine understanding.
The original targets have provided evidence and explanations to counter the false claims made against us. Any contrary claims are unfounded. Our primary focus remains on addressing the actual issues and avoiding further engagement with those spreading false information.
It is incorrect to label our reactions as harassment or to claim that we were "civil" while the cyberstalkers were not. They have never shown civility and have repeatedly deflected their own behavior onto us.
We have repeatedly addressed these misconceptions over the past year. The persistent falsehoods and misrepresentations about our identities and discussions are not grounded in reality. The goal should be honest and respectful dialogue, rather than perpetuating false claims.


Also, I remember why I don't trust Akaito's message that is in good faith. " Oh I'm going to keep pressing them, personally." We were being pressed? and if "We all have eyes and the thread is public, " If the thread is indeed public, why continue spreading lies? The only explanation for such prolonged and aggressive behavior is a refusal to acknowledge being wrong and a continued effort to deflect from their own misconduct.

With that essay I wrote above, I hope to have successful escaped from addressing the truth of Dan being raped by Jaekyung in the early chapters in particular. I can still flap my mouth a lot as you can see, but I can also dismiss the discussion whenever I am cornered into admitting defeat. I am still avoiding discussion as I have been doing for the past few days. The only people I am in fact engaging with are the trolls and not those who want a genuine conversation. I am purposely misunderstanding and misinterpretating those panels drawn by Mingwa depicting rape. Depicting Dan in fear and pain and depicting Jaekyung aware of what is going on.

I wished these trolls forgot that the account I am currently using was once called Morning diamonds. I am too stupid to create a new account. I ignore the fact that I have forgotten the switch accounts before replying, oh how mortifying. But I will keep acting as though I am a different person. I hope I am doing a good job at it because so far, no one fell for it.
I will keep projecting my behavior and insecurities on these people who I am afraid will continue to prove me wrong and the trolls. I was the one who supposedly wanted a discussion, but I ignored their attempts at one altogether. Only I can press people, no one can keep asking me the same question I am dodging. I don't know what ''press'' means... I don't know what a lot of terms mean. I feel threatened by innocent words and I confidently use terms incorrectly. I am always right. If I am refusing to answer your questions, do you not get the hint that that is how I show defeat? I will never outright say it. I have already embarrassed myself over and over in this thread alone. Being in denial is my only way of coping.

The last comment from Shielded Guard is a cyberstalker that stole my identity I am assuming using debunked arguments that only deflect themselves as they are talking about their actions instead of their targets as I read none of the replies due to the same misrepresentations used repeatedly by the cyberstalkers.
The misrepresentation of information has been corrected multiple times, and continuing to use debunked claims only reflects poorly on those who propagate them.

Please avoid engaging with the cyberstalkers who are impersonating others. They’re trying to create confusion and escalate the situation. Responding can make things worse. For your safety and to prevent further harm, it’s best to ignore and block them rather than interacting.

I started saying ''I stopped reading'' ''I skimmed through'' ''I didn't read all of it'' when I knew I was cornered and had no other options other than feign ignorance or admit defeat. That is what I'm currently doing. What fallacy is that? Surely you know since you love bringing up ad hominem despite being the one who resorts to irrelevant insults the most.

And now, as I keep talking while still ignoring the non-trolls who only wanted a discussion that I pussied out from, I will beg all 0 people still present in this thread to block them. Ah, I do feel better.

I do not read many comments from cyberstalkers in detail, and when I do, I only skim through them. This approach helps me avoid getting entangled in their misleading narratives. It’s clear that these individuals resort to cyberstalking tactics because they are cornered and have no valid arguments. Their attempts to provoke a response are indicative of their defeat and desperation. It is sad to watch.

The aim of these cyberstalkers is to create confusion and provoke reactions. Engaging with them or responding to their provocations only plays into their hands and can escalate the situation further. For your safety and to avoid further harm, it’s best to ignore and block them rather than engaging with their misleading comments
There have been numerous attempts to spread misinformation and recycle debunked claims. These persistent falsehoods only reflect poorly on those who propagate them. We remain focused on addressing the actual issues and have provided evidence and explanations to counter these false claims.

It looks like the only comments you're replying to in length with the help of chatgpt are the trolls', not the users you apparently wanted to debate with. It was pretty telling seeing you ignore all their dozens of attempts at trying to get a response. And at no point were they hostile... Unlike you and your alt account.

Keep replying to me tho, in this very thread that you're ignoring the actual people you should be talking to. Oops you have no rebuttal against the panels of dan getting hella raped by jae

With my (Morning diamond) silence, I surrendered.

Clarification on Recent Identity Issues and Behavior

To all concerned,

It has come to our attention that there have been issues with identity theft and misleading behavior. The original "Morning Diamonds" has clearly stated that they no longer wish to be associated with these discussions and will not return to the conversation. They said they are not Morning Diamonds and the cyberstalkers can have the name. This separation reflects their decision to disengage from a situation marked by toxicity and deceit.

Cyberstalkers:
Attempting to mimic their identity or play the victim only highlights the cyberstalkers' behaviors and the issues at hand. It's important to acknowledge that their actions—whether initiating attacks or engaging in deceitful practices—are the root of the problem. Stealing identities and pretending to be someone else is not only immature but also reveals more about your character than about those you claim to represent.

On this topic:
We chose to step back from this situation until there is a genuine effort to demonstrate good faith and engage respectfully. Our departure from the conversation is a commitment to avoid contributing to mockery and deceit, and to maintain our own integrity. It is deceitful in what has occurred afterward.


"Silence is the best answer to someone who doesn't value your words."

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Imagine still showing you face in this thread but unable to disprove clear panels of dan getting raped by Jaekyung, you gotta be selective when you decide to be ignorant

https://www.mangago.zone/home/mangatopic/15972041/

" Any claims suggesting that we exited or avoided discussions about panels where Dan is depicted as being raped are unfounded. We do not engage with all posts by cyberstalkers and, if such panels exist, they are likely based on misunderstandings, misrepresentations, or outright fakes. I don't know what they are talking about. It is noted they are making all the targets one person again."

I promise you this person just check my account and see how many names the ChatGPT like person you’ve been interacting with has gone by

Let's see
Cyberstalker from February 10 has come in with lies.

In this situation, there are cyberstalkers and their targets. One of the cyberstalkers is trying to blur the lines between us and them, pretending that the targets are actually them. While they may claim to have schizophrenia, it’s important to emphasize that the targets are not them, and we are not them. Their goal is to harm the targets by pretending to be one of us.


it is concerning that someone would attempt to weaponize mental health issues like schizophrenia as part of their harassment tactics.


It’s unfortunate that they feel the need to resort to false accusations and mockery in an attempt to provoke a reaction. Posting factual replies and standing up against harassment is not 'crying'—it's about maintaining integrity and not allowing lies to go unchallenged.

These baseless claims have already been debunked, and continuing to spread them only further discredits their position. We see through these tactics, and they won't deter us from speaking the truth.

It's clear who's truly bothered here, and it's not the targets. Despite their attempts to disrupt, the truth will continue to stand.

You did not edit out a few lines. hehe.

Lmao can you make it more obvious that you're the same person? Even if you didn't have the same usernames/talk the same/at the same times, it would be harder pretend otherwise

Oh and also, you replied with both your alts yet still refuse to accept the panels where Dan is getting raped by jaekyung, keep ignoring it like you have been for over 50 times right in this topic that's available to look back on

He’s talking to himself again i’m fucking crying

one of many "I hope we can engage in a respectful manner, acknowledging different perspectives and maintaining precision in our discussions. Understanding and empathy are crucial in these conversations."

Look at how Akaito responded.

my friend addressed Akaito's behavior after our position was made.

"going to keep pressing them"

When I said "my friend addressed Akaito's behavior after our position was made." that comment was made August 2, 2024 10:52 pm We already decided to stop engaging with Akaito as we are not talking to Akaito.

I think this comment is the first time Akaito posted his notes. It was after many chances to have a constructive dialogue. August 2, 2024 11:31 pm


Akaito chose his path.

This is why my friend will not talk to Akaito.
"Your crime was talking about rape and sexual assault in an insensitive manner. Your crime was not being upfront with me. Your crime was not taking this conversation or any others you've been having with anyone else thus far seriously enough to engage with your own words and thoughts."

My friend was not being insensitive and they are an sexual assualt survivor. They are serious about this matter. They are serious about engaging with people. Akaito does not know the full picture.

but dan agreed even if it was his financial situation.
jaekyung is not obligated to help dan and run charity with money he worked hard to make.

i agree with you and what you said is what I'm trying to say... jaekyung has the right to decide what he will do with his money... and dan was presented the terms clearly that dan has to do it whenever wherever and however jaekyung likes to

have you ever been in a dire financial situation? His choices were a: be homeless, consistently harassed by loan sharks and die on the streets, or b: some harmless sex! Did Jk SPECIFY he would be forceful and ignore Dan's condition? Did he SPECIFY he'd do it in public? Did he SPECIFY that Dan had basically trapped himself in a slave contract? Dan is naïve. He would've been expecting occasional maybe weekly sex INSIDE of a building and for Jk to be gentle if he was in pain. We know that. What's more concerning is you see his mental state deteriorate. VERY rapidly. The consistent blaming himself is clearly him falling into depression/anxiety. I've experienced it first hand. It's not normal. But the authors trying to paint this pretty picture that Dan is ok. If you're stuck between a brick wall with a door that leads to a painful horrible death, and another brick wall with a door, this one leads to slavery but the slavery is just sex, you're BOUND to pick the slavery door. There's not much of a choice there. If Dan's first door wasn't such a dire situation, if it was just move into a smaller apartment and budget, would he have made the same choice? This is an instance of illusion of choice. If you put the character in the same situation but less severe, would they make the same choice? If the answer is no, then there was never a choice. There was the illusion of choice.

I did but it got drowned out with ppl thinking this is sexy for some reason

yes omg why like soohwa is visibly physically hurt what is sexy about that

Seriously I'm just like WHAT? Soohwa doesn't even remember coming home to this? He FALLS ASLEEP and wakes up and Yohan is STILL balls deep in his ass and he doesn't know what's going on and then they just play it off as "deserved punishment" I'm??? No??? If this was a like, dynamic they'd discussed before or something then it would've been fine but this is highkey assault, the hell??? I can accept their "no" means "yes" deal but this is too much hhh

Yess!! I;ve seen so many people say that it's just basically porn and to stop guilt tripping everyone but! I'm not out here trying to guilt trip everyone, I understand that porn and erotica allow people to express things that are unacceptable in the real world and that's fine, but this literally came out of nohwere!! They had established Yohan as this sweet character and never in the story did they even hint at them having a sort of dominance dynamic in the relationship! On top of being not okay, this is just plain weird!

agree!!This and love shuttle has just ruined the rest of my patience with yaoi. I need that when ppl say no we don't have semes that just does whatever the fuck they want. I'm tired of seeing punishments from ppl not in bdsm relationships. And the uke just goes along with it. I'm tired of ppl being "punished" for reasonable adult situations. I can't take another black out drunk with a fucking fully clear minded seme. Who fucks somebody passed out. It's like if they don't have somebody's autonomy being violated the story can't be good