Akaito's Topics (16)

I'm currently living a very miserable life in university

Are you curious because of your research on how readers view SA in manhwas?

Incredibly relatable content

Hmmm what does it matter to you? I’m just a silly, overly morally righteous troll who can’t separate fiction from reality, right? I got curious because I wanted to see if all my time spent in those ivory towers of higher ed studying writing and literature is what’s causing some of the fundamental disconnect in approaches and understandings of those approaches to this work.

I asked because I assumed you wanted to know for research purposes. If you are using the info you collect for research, then you should be clearly telling readers that before you ask the question.

Definitely for research purposes

Well, I’m not. If I were I indeed would’ve clarified that but, like I said, I am just curious because of the aforementioned reasons. Though I have thought about using the various discussions I have had with people as data, I’m a bit too lazy to consciously and deliberately collect anything right now, much less break down and categorize it…

What, now we care about ethics? In the first place you’re all already anonymous by virtue of your usernames, I doubt anyone here is using their real names. You’d possibly be rendered even more anonymous by stripping you of your usernames altogether and referring to you as “user 1, user 2, user 3” etc. All the info here is also publicly available, so it wouldn’t be as if I’d privately recorded an interview containing sensitive information and released it to the public without my interviewee knowing…hell, someone else entirely could do this kind of thing and factor me and my responses into it as well.

The other thing that would make research like that a bit challenging is determining how genuine people’s answers are, although if I was conducting more formal interviews or putting out a more formal questionnaire—well I did attempt something like the latter before—that might change a bit. Still, there’d be something worthwhile in how people responded regardless, and conclusions you could draw from them, even if that conclusion is ultimately that they didn’t take the line of inquiry seriously

That’s true, most people are anonymous on these types of sites. Research can be done on anonymous data with certain expectations, such as having a low level of engagement with users. A researcher who has a high level could direct the data in their favour, and it impacts consent from an ethical standpoint. It ultimately depends on the approval of the ethics committee your research is affiliated with. An issue is that it’s highly unlikely that researchers who have a fairly high level of engagement and are anonymous are going to admit that. Another issue, as you pointed out, is the truthfulness of the data you collect. Things like this is why I view some peer-reviewed research with skepticism.

No way

Ain't no way you said that. But at least that guy from SB was obsessed with the other guy and made an effort to keep him. Jaekyung hasn't even shown any interest, I haven't seen any broker ankles yet. (jk jk jk)

Don’t mistake “better writing” for anything else—I don’t mean that the MC or the guy “pursuing” him are more likeable as people, or that their relationship is healthier than Dan and Jaekyung’s or anything else like that. What’s depicted there is very obviously and horrifically toxic and abusive, but that’s the thing—the author actually seems perfectly aware of that fact, unlike Jinx’s author.

We see the MC’s mental state gradually deteriorate over time the longer he’s with the other guy, going from someone desperately fighting against him and trying to escape, to someone who has fallen into learned helplessness, hopelessness, and despair. He develops suicidal ideations and starts drinking to cope. Throughout this, he catches his mindset shifting and changing because of the treatment, and he doubts himself and his reality. Even at the end when he ends up going back to the other guy, it’s clear he’s doing it not because he genuinely loves the guy, but because he still feels he has no hope in anyone or anyone else.

And the other guy, as crazy and selfish as he is, does gradually pull back on said crazy behavior whenever he sees he’s pushed MC too far, trying to make up for it. He unchains MC eventually, lavishes gifts on him, gives him bits and pieces of his freedom back over time, promises not to freak out each time after he’s done something else horrible to the MC. It’s a very classical, textbook pattern of abuse. And even this guy, again, crazy and selfish as he is, seems to hold some type of…care or affection for the MC—enough that MC’s suicide attempt shakes him so deeply to his bones that he’s willingly (at least for a bit) to finally let MC go.

So it’s just, yeah. Comparing that to Jinx and how shallow and static Dan and Jaekyung’s characters are, and how stagnant their dynamic is and has been throughout these 52 episodes of season 1…seeing how Jinx’s author hasn’t done the bare minimum in acknowledging and depicting the reality of what is happening in her own webtoon, at least not yet…yeah I do think that author has a leg up on Jinx in terms of story and characterization. Who knows, though. Maybe I will be surprised by season 2.

See the above LOL. But yeah, that also. I buy that Dan is/might be delusionally in love with Jaekyung but I do not at all buy that Jaekyung likes or cares for Dan right now

Glad you brought it up. Top 3 yaoi to read :
1. In these words.
2. Jinx
3. Sadistic beauty bl

I wanna witness that hate sex ong

i don’t enjoy jinx but I’d lowkey wanna see them fuck LMAO

if I had any motivation to write, I'd write an ao3 fic about it

please update us when you do

Im not a jinx lover, but I understand their sentiment, they are waiting for that "character development" which was also used in BJ Alex. They are hoping to get a satisfying chasing arc.

Most really care about the rape, but the seme is handsome and hot, so chasing arc will be really satisfying.

Oh for me, its really rape, I'm not here to defend whether it is or not, but just like BJ Alex, when the seme realized his love, he became puppy like towards the uke. I think that is what most readers hope for.

Mygosshh Im sorry, why did I comment, Im not even a jinx lover, and it was my first time in a while reading the comment section in Jinx, so I didnt know there is a war.

I want to delete this because I am tired of wars. Lol

Just dont mind my opinion

Nah you’re good LOL

I do get holding out hope for the groveling/chasing arc though. For me personally it’s hard for me to root for them getting together at all even if Jaekyung becomes an angel on earth, but I’m interested in how that will play out/how the author will try to…pull that off in a believable fashion, given all that Jaekyung has done to Dan.

But other than that, I’m wondering what else people find entertaining about this!

Personally, i like Jinx because: i like the trope ennemie to lovers or grumpy & sunshine (here it's more like asshole / lovable XD). Because i love getting riled up about a character, having reactions, a vibrant story. Then with this story and this author, i always find it satisfying to see a character condescending, groveling. It counterbalances the forces on the other side, it's so satisfying (i confess ahah). There's also the idea of seeing characters, emotions and behaviors evolve. It's entertaining to read. The illustrations are wonderful too. (≧∀≦)

I see, thank you for answering! I generally like those tropes (enemies to lovers, grumpy/sunshine) too, when they're done well. I personally don't see the enemies to lovers of Dan and Jaekyung's relationship—it feels a bit too one-sided to me—but I can see where you're coming from. I agree it can be nice to see a condescending character get knocked down a few pegs and to see how dynamics change and develop over time.

What about the art do you like?
I'm an artist, I love beautiful arts


What about the plot do you like?
I love the way the creator switches up the pov to tell the stories from certain characters or from outsiders to make it unfold as if you're also also part of the story. Good writing style.


Particular characters/characterization?
Hypermascusline characters that are almost true to the real world. The hyper fixation on outer appearances and the other normal characters like Kim Dan's body type who is slender without working out like the average Asian person.
•Superstition. Believe it or not, many successful people are superstitious (if they're not Christians) because that is the way of the world. As a pagan and an atheist, I can relate to this culturally and spiritually. It's dumb but it can also be real when your opponents can do black magic and suck lucifer's dicks. As an atheist, whenever I feel bothered, I only have to call my Christian friends to help me out and they'll pray for me. It works like a charm that you can buy from the temples. Charms from the temples are excessively expensive compared to the free prayers my Christian friends give. Pagans like me who have Christian friends understand that their God is a kind God who never fails to help even pagans like myself. As a pagan and an atheist, I'm very aware of my lifestyle that don't connect with my Christian friends. They pray for what is right and good. I pray for my enemies to die or fail. I've prayed for worse but these days, I've prayed for something better. Sending good vibes only. People think it's funny for pagans to have rituals. Well, that's the way I was raised. I don't plan on changing anytime soon. Even pagans like myself have high moral attributes. For one, I don't eat meat. I'm vegan. I can 100℅ confirm that I have strong morality since I was raised vegan (vegan baby) and I'm absolutely kinder than most people. My way of life is different than Christians but I can understand them from my own personal experience. Many people hate vegans as much as they hate Christians.
•Hot tempered men and very competitive sportsmanship
•Level headed, nurturing and caring men
•Opposites attract
•One sided love
•Age gap
•Highly attractive characters (for example like JaeKyung) who thinks he's naturally able to have anyone he desires (Most attractive people date other attractive people. They don't simply date anyone. They have to be the one to take the first step because most people think they're already taken. Meaning, JaeKyung is more assertive and decisive because he's in a different position).
•Kim Dan's desperate character. In this economy, nobody will blame Kim Dan for doing what's he's doing. Prostitution is one of the oldest jobs in the world. Is he a bad person for doing this? Well, can you blame him? He's doing what he can to protect someone important. Sometimes, people do crazy things to survive. He's in a serious survival mode. I love his character even though he's very weak and indecisive (he can't think of better ways to earn more money). I also love his loyalty to his granny. I respect that. That is a deep love that anyone can relate to if they have family.



Character design?
Beautiful designs.
•As the Japanese say, BL male characters are bishounen and they look similar to Asian features, thry have that youthful looks.
•Good body ref diversity. Granny looks real like a granny. Coaches look good and authoritative. Athletes look like athletes. Kim Dan looks like a Kim Dan.



Story arcs/plotlines?
• I love the modern urban setting and the unpredictable sports atmosphere.
• When Kim Dan's in trouble and dealing with his darkest moments, JaeKyung is always there for him. After seeing Kim Dan's struggle, he gradually warms up to him although he is still overbearing and selfish.



Particular story elements/tropes?
•High adrenaline men's sports
•Sports
•Slice of Life
•Work Life (clear roles and hierarchy)
•Adult/mature themes
•Hot tempered men and very competitive sportsmanship
•Level headed, nurturing and caring men
•The pagan way of dealing with life's hardships. Anal sex in satanism is not a new occurrence. It's happened for so long. That's how the rituals can power up the vessels from fucking the conduit and gain strength. Pagan way of life is evil in Christians' eyes because they follow the Bible and have seen things when the venture into the dark places of the world who take from the weak and initiate victims by satanic sexual abuse rituals. Not very gruesome like in our reality. This is the innocent version of satanism. Conditioning victims to accept the abuse and make them want it themselves. It is a good story regardless. Well written. It'd be more interesting if the creator delve into the spiritual part of the jinx to make it more amusing to read too bad she's not up for it (she needs to do a lot of research).


The writing overall?
Too early to decide and judge. I still enjoyed reading the webtoon.

Yes, of course you can acknowledge his behavior and still enjoy the story, and him as a character. That's how it is for any story. And I do acknowledge that he is rough and that he has anger issues, but I don't acknowledge him as a rapist because I don't believe that he is one.

Okay but…why not? What is your definition of consent?

To the Community:

I don’t engage with Akito due to how he has treated both me and others. He’s admitted to being aggressive with me, and his handling of situations is outright abusive. So, should we apply his own standards to his actions?

No. Just like his abusive behavior doesn't make him a rapist, the same applies here. If he’s pushing this narrative, he’s implicating himself.

That said, I think it’s important to address some of the claims being made, particularly around what constitutes sexual assault, coercion, and abuse.

First off, there’s no denying that Jaekyung is an abusive character. His treatment of Dan involves coercion, violence, and significant power imbalances that can’t be overlooked. But I believe it’s a major leap to equate those actions with rape. Abuse comes in many forms, and while Jaekyung’s emotional manipulation of Dan is clearly harmful, that doesn’t automatically mean we should label him a “rapist.” It’s crucial to distinguish between different types of abuse so that we don’t oversimplify these complex dynamics.

I also want to highlight that just because a character does bad things, it doesn’t mean we need to throw every possible negative label at them. People can still enjoy the story, be curious about the character’s growth or redemption, or just want to see how the narrative unfolds, without excusing every action. Acknowledging abuse doesn’t mean we need to leap to the most extreme accusations unless it’s warranted by the story itself.

In Jaekyung’s case, while his actions may involve rough, non-consensual behavior at times, it’s important to recognize that abuse or coercion doesn’t necessarily equate to rape. Being clear about these distinctions helps us understand both the characters and the narrative more accurately.

In fiction, especially in genres like yaoi, problematic dynamics are often depicted. That doesn’t mean that every troubling or uncomfortable scene automatically crosses into rape or sexual assault territory. Let’s remember that and be mindful in how we discuss these issues, so we don’t blur the lines between different forms of harm.

In short, I felt threatened once again by being presented with irrefutable facts because I am unable to deny them. Therefore I will keep on making excuses not to address them.

chatgpt give me a 7 paragraph text about why this jaekyung character is NOT a rapist. But since he is, I need you to speak in a way that doesn't make sense and in the end reiterate that he's no rapist. Be assertive and show confidence.

"In Jaekyung’s case, while his actions may involve rough, non-consensual behavior at times, it’s important to recognize that abuse or coercion doesn’t necessarily equate to rape. "
Do you even proofread what chatgpt spits at you? Lmfao md finally admitted. Surprisingly not the first time bahhaahha

NO BECAUSE MY JAW IS ON THE FLOOR…how do you have “non-consensual” “abuse” and “coercion” followed by “not rape” there’s no fucking shot.

holy yap, "while his actions may involve rough, non-consensual behaviour at times" - then you double down and say it's not rape do you hear yourself

Also to the real MD, you’re a disingenuous, hypocritical coward. You can’t say “I don’t engage with Akaito anymore” while going out of your way to directly engage with my post and try to address me point by point. Unblock me so we can have a real chat or get off my posts.

I see what you’re trying to do here—acknowledging the situation without being confrontational. Here’s a refined version that keeps the tone neutral while addressing the issue clearly:

This is my second comment. Please take a moment to compare the profiles involved.

Clarification on Impersonation and Cyberstalking

It’s come to my attention that the individual impersonating me has made several comments, attempting to manipulate the situation by claiming I feel threatened. To clarify, I am not the one feeling threatened—*they* are the ones engaging in impersonation and cyberstalking. These actions are meant to undermine me and others in the community, twisting the narrative to deflect attention from their harmful behavior.

The impersonator continues to misrepresent my words and mock my responses. However, this does not change the fact that their behavior—impersonation, cyberstalking, and harassment—is the real issue here. They are not engaging in genuine discussion but are instead using sarcasm and misinformation to discredit my points and manipulate the conversation.

While I’ve pointed out the abusive nature of Jaekyung’s character in the webtoon, I want to emphasize that we cannot apply this type of logic carelessly. If we were to follow the Akatio’s logic, does their abusive behavior mean we should apply the same extreme labels like a rapist to them? Of course not, and this shows how harmful their narrative is when turned back on them.

I encourage everyone to stay vigilant and avoid engaging with impersonators. Their tactics are designed to confuse and manipulate. Please remember that impersonation and cyberstalking are serious issues, and your safety and well-being online should come first.

To be clear, I have never admitted to the claims they are making, and their sarcastic responses do not prove anything. What this behavior does show is a pattern of abuse, which is why it’s crucial to avoid engaging with this person.

If you find these comments misleading or aggressive, it’s because they are intended to distract and confuse. Let’s focus on addressing harmful behaviors and creating a safer, more respectful community, free from harassment and manipulation.

It’s important to clarify the difference between non-consensual behavior and rape, as these terms are often used interchangeably, but they’re not always the same in legal or narrative contexts.

Non-consensual behavior can include a wide range of actions that occur without someone’s explicit agreement—this could be physical, emotional, or sexual. Rape, on the other hand, specifically involves sexual penetration without consent, which is a severe form of non-consensual behavior but not the only form.

In Jaekyung's case, while his actions include abusive, coercive, and non-consensual behaviors, the discussion is whether those actions meet the specific definition of rape. Some forms of abuse, even if harmful or coercive, don't always fit the legal or narrative definition of rape. It’s important to make these distinctions so we can discuss the harm being done with the appropriate terms.

I'm not dismissing the gravity of what Jaekyung does, but rather trying to be precise with language when discussing complex dynamics in fiction.

MD, does Jaekyung not sexually penetrate Dan several times throughout this webtoon? Because if not then that’s news to me.

Also go ahead and call me a rapist all you like. An Intellectual Rapist

Clarification on Disengagement and Misrepresentation


I want to clarify a few things regarding the ongoing conversation. First, I am not MD, and it seems there has been confusion on that front. MD and Akaito has never spoken to each other.


Also, I have every right to disengage from someone who has created a toxic environment for me and others. Akaito has admitted to being aggressive, but what hasn’t been acknowledged is how his behavior has affected those around him, including myself. While I respect differing opinions, the way conversations have unfolded—including spreading misinformation and attacking people who hold different views—has made it clear that it’s not a space for productive discussion.

For that reason, I chose to disengage from speaking directly with Akaito. My intent in commenting wasn’t to address him personally but to contribute to the broader conversation. I believe it’s possible to discuss ideas without directly engaging with someone who has a pattern of aggressive or harmful behavior.

I understand some people thrive on debate, but personal attacks, stalking from one topic to another, and the use of insults doesn’t create a space for meaningful dialogue. I’m here to exchange ideas, but I won’t be engaging with people who resort to toxic tactics to make their point. Let’s focus on creating a community where everyone can feel comfortable expressing their views without fear of harassment.

I know that's someone else already said this, but I'm gonna say it again. Because they had a contract, which stated that they would have sex whenever and wherever Jaekyung wanted to, no matter the circumstances. And Dan agreed to that while knowing exactly what he was getting himself into. So, having sex with Jaekyung and being his physical therapist is literally Dan's job, that's how he earns his pay. This means that him saying no to sex is him breaking the contract and not doing his job correctly.
But that doesn't mean that Jaekyung is completely innocent. The way he treats Dan is not okay, he is rough and has a temper. But yet again... he doesn't owe Dan anything. They are not in a romantic relationship, it's totally contractual. And it always has been. It was always about Jaekyung getting pleasure and having his jinx taken care of. Of course he wouldn't care about Dan feeling good. Because it's not about that.

And you can say all you want that Dan didn't have any choice and got forced to sign the contract, but that's not true at all. He was the one who ran over to Jaekyung's place all by himself, and he even asked for more money than he was originally offered. And that was then Jaekyung also spiced up his terms and came up with the sex whenever and wherever thing. Because before that he only wanted Dan to be his physical therapist and only have sex with him the day before a match. And to point something out; Jaekyung didn't even know about Dan's grandma or his debt back then.

We are starting to leave this “I see what you’re trying to do here—acknowledging the situation without being confrontational. Here’s a refined version that keeps the tone neutral while addressing the issue clearly:
”

It is refining what we write. It is not writing for us. “Refine version”. It can’t refine something if it is creating a message as Akaito has accused us of doing. We explain this many times but Akaito kept his interpretation to keep attacking us.

So, it doesn't make any sense to blame Jaekyung for that, and say that he coerced Dan with money.

I appreciate your comments, but I want to emphasize that engaging with someone who has a pattern of bullying and harmful behavior can lead to more toxicity.

Before we get into the nuances of what’s going on with Dan and Jaekyung, please provide me your definition of consent. I just want to make absolute sure we’re on the same page before we start getting into the real complications of everything and where I’m coming from with this. If we fundamentally disagree on how consent works/how it’s defined, then I don’t think we will be able to discuss this without talking past each other. I will just copy-paste what I’ve said elsewhere:

I am personally operating off of the FRIES model of consent. That is, consent must be: Freely given (without pressure, manipulation, or under the influence of drugs or alcohol), Reversible (able to be taken back at any time), Informed (all parties must disclose any information that might threaten the safety of the interaction, any information that would cause someone not to consent), Enthusiastic (parties involved are doing things they really want to do and have expressed as much), and Specific (agreeing or consenting to one act doesn’t mean a party agrees to or consents to any and all acts).

There’s also the CRISP model of consent, which takes into consideration the fact that it can be difficult to always fully “freely give” consent because things like power dynamics and different systems of oppression (like sexism, racism, …capitalism, etc) can’t always be fully erased from an interaction, but can and should still be accounted for in some way. The C stands for Considered (as in all parties are given time to consider all the factors going into something and deciding whether or not they want to consent), and the P stands for Participatory (as in all parties need to be involved in the decision-making process, all parties need to have their thoughts, feelings, opinions heard and considered and accounted for).

My own nuances I’d add are: consent must be ongoing, as in should be acquired throughout an interaction (which is partially covered by the Specific clause) and that all parties, but especially the dominant/giving party or parties, are responsible for deliberately fostering an environment where consent can operate from within these models.

I agree with the FRIES model.

Holy yapperoni

Okay, I’m glad we both agree on FRIES. I’ll also agree that Dan and Jaekyung’s “contract” does complicate things but, also, really doesn’t—at least not to me.

Before we talk about their contract, I want to talk about their very first interaction. To me, this case is very clearly rape. At that point they were not under any blanket contractual agreement stipulating that sex would/could be had “whenever and wherever” Jaekyung wanted to. Jaekyung lied and told Dan that he would be getting money for doing physical therapy. Dan agreed to doing physical therapy. It is not until after Dan arrives that Jaekyung says that he would be getting paid for sex. This is called a bait-and-switch, which is a manipulation tactic. Consent attained due to manipulation violates the “freely given” aspect of FRIES. It is also not until this point that Jaekyung says that Dan won’t receive money unless he has sex with him, which is coercive regardless of whether or not Jaekyung personally knows about Dan’s financial situation. Again, this violates the “freely given” aspect.

I’d also like to point out that there is a huge power imbalance between Dan and Jaekyung—physically, financially, and in terms of status. Power imbalances can often muddy consent. This is just one part of why we have age of consent, for example—because the power an adult holds over a child can easily be abused. Or why employer-employee relationships are discouraged. The possibility of the employee being fired from their job and even blacklisted from other places of work if they don’t accept an employer’s advances can and often does create a situation where the employee feels pressured, directly or indirectly, to comply with their employer, even if they don’t really want to (frankly, we saw this exact scenario happen to Dan and his former boss right at the beginning of the webtoon).

But okay, Dan agrees because he needs the money (not really an enthusiastic consent, either). Still, throughout their first interaction, he frequently tells Jaekyung “no” or “stop” or “wait” and asks for Jaekyung to be gentler. Jaekyung outright ignores his pleas, and even threatens Dan and uses physical force on him. He threatens to break Dan’s ankle when Dan struggles and asks him to wait, threatens Dan saying “If you waste my time like that last little bitch, don’t expect to be sent home safe and sound” (referencing someone whose head he slammed into the wall just minutes before) when Dan says he can’t go through with the sex after all, shoves Dan’s face into the mattress before saying “keep testing my patience and i’ll smash your head in” when Dan tells him it hurts and he wants to stop, pulls Dan to him as Dan tries to crawl away from him…and more. These are all blatant violations of the “reversible” aspect of FRIES, as well as the “freely given” aspect. Dan revokes his consent and that isn’t respected, and any consent he does give is under explicit threat of physical violence.

Am I missing something here that changes this interpretation of events? Because this looks like clear rape to me.

Bitch are u still on it? Find something to do in your free time fr instead of restarting debates with people about the nth fiction no one cares. I'm only impressed about one thing, the people who have the patience to read all of u're shit

Okay, but I'm gonna ask you a few question before I answer to all that.
Why do you care so much about what a character in a fictional story does? Why do you feel the need to put a label on it? Like, what difference does it make? Because I don't understand it at all.

I ain’t reading all that

Sure. Apologies for the long response, by the way. I just want to make sure I’m articulating myself and my concerns very clearly.

Let me clarify that I don’t personally care much about this webtoon itself. Jaekyung’s actions do disgust and upset me, but…shouldn’t they? Generally readers are meant to empathize with the main character and feel upset when they’re hurt.

That said, I understand that the story is fictional, and that reading and enjoying it is not inherently harmful. I understand the relationship between fiction and reality isn’t 1-to-1, that most readers can separate the two, that they’re reading it, having their fun, and not necessarily picking up any new ideas from it. But the way that people respond to fiction, especially when that fiction is quite true to life, can reveal a lot about how people think. And all fiction, whether you like it or not, either reinforces societal norms or critiques them. So seeing how people respond to this question of whether or not rape is depicted and the rationale they use is very concerning to me.

My primary concern is with victim blaming. Many have argued that Dan just shouldn’t have agreed to any relationship with Jaekyung, that he should’ve known better and done something differently, that he’s partially at fault for his situation. Doing this not only shifts responsibility away from Jaekyung, who has almost all the power in their relationship, but it also completely ignores the realities of Dan’s situation. Both of these things, Jaekyung’s power, and Dan’s destitution, muddy consent.

Let me not mince words. Dan was deep in POVERTY. He was in crippling financial debt. His grandmother’s treatment was wracking up more bills. He was already working three jobs to survive. He lived in the slums. He was going to be evicted and end up homeless because he couldn’t afford to move to a new place. His former boss fucked his ability to earn money in his own field by getting him blacklisted from nearby hospitals. He was MALNOURISHED, which we learn from a doctor visit.

Given all of this, real choice was he supposed to make? Why should he be blamed for having his vulnerability exploited? If you agree with that consent must be freely given, without manipulation and coercion, then what freedom does Dan really have to say no? Whether or not Jaekyung knew about his personal financial situation doesn’t matter—he took advantage of and exploited Dan.

(Sidenote: almost no one who isn’t obviously desperate for money and yet so unwilling to have sex with it would fold under the threat of having it taken away. If Jaekyung cared not to abuse his power, he would’ve put a stop to things. He didn’t, even after finding out about Dan’s circumstances.)

Dan’s situation isn’t just fictional. It’s the reality of many people who are homeless and/or in poverty, who end up resorting to dangerous, unregulated sex work in order to survive, and who end up abused and exploited because they have no protections and no money or power to protect themselves or seek recourse. And the same way that people are blaming Dan for his circumstances is the same way that people blame those that end up in abusive, exploitative relationships in real life.

So it makes me worried that some readers wouldn’t be able to identify a coercive or abusive situation in real life, and might blame a victim of coercion and abuse for their circumstances and for not getting out of them. It makes me worry that they would blame themselves if they were out in a similar situation, even if it wasn’t their fault—that they’d blame themselves for folding under undue pressure.

This isn’t about the webtoon for me, and it never was. It is about the people who are reading it and how they’re responding to it. That’s the difference that it makes for me. That’s why the rape label matters. That’s why I care so much.

Okay. Thanks for your answer. I understand your points and agree with some of them. And it's great that you want to look out for other people and educate them on this topic. Because it is very important to know your rights in these situations.

Because these kinda situations are tricky and you don't always know how to deal with them. I have been in situations myself where I was afraid to say no to certain things, and didn't stand up for myself, when I probably should have.

Bro shut ur bitch ass mouth. It’s rape. Even in prostitution, it’s considered rape if they said no. What’s my fucking sources, Idk fucking Google?

Like how the fuck do ya’ll yap like this and not now how to fucking cite ur fucking sources. Ya’ll just yapped to some shit

No is no, is such a basic thing to learn.

It’s rape why the fuck ya’ll got have debate. IT’S NOT SOMETHING TO DEBATE ABOUT. IT’S CLEARLY FUCKING RAPE

Calm down, it's a fictional story...

Ye but why are you so compelled of it's genre? It's rape. A rape fiction story nothing else bruu

But why does that matter?

R u seriously this dumb, what the fuck is the point of a genre?

I’m genuinely sorry that you’ve been in those situations. It’s unfortunately a very common experience :/ and indeed, for many reasons, it can be really hard to know what exactly to say or do. Sometimes you do know what you should say or do, but so many things can get in the way of that—fear, guilt, shame…

Anyway, I’m glad you can see where I’m coming from. When I’m having these conversations with people, I usually tend to highlight how strong Jaekyung is and how he uses that strength, precisely to demonstrate how fear in particular plays such a huge role in Jaekyung and Dan’s dynamic, y’know? Because, yeah, it can feel hard to say no, even when you really want to, when you’re afraid of what will happen if you do. And this particular type of dynamic can foster deep feelings of helplessness, shame, and guilt in people—they sit there like you, thinking, “why didn’t I do something?” when in all likelihood they were having a natural response to an environment they felt afraid or unsafe in, and did what they thought would preserve whatever safety they did have.

Yes, everyone is responsible for clearly communicating their boundaries. But everyone is also responsible for creating an environment where people feel safe enough to communicate those boundaries in the first place. Fear isn’t conducive to doing that. And not only does Jaekyung not try to create a safe environment, he also often utilizes his physical strength to scare and force Dan into compliance.

Bro chill out a bit, man. I understand your frustration, believe me, but some people really do just need to have things pointed out to them. Especially in this case where it’s…I mean I wouldn’t say it’s that ambiguous, personally, but I can see how people might not immediately get it if they’re less informed about how coercion works and plays into this (not to mention, yeah, all the socioneconomic stuff I’ve been discussing).

I care And you’d know why if you bothered to read any of what I’m saying and have been saying. I care about real life people, yes, even including you, and how they will be impacted and impact others if they lack an understanding of consent and coercion.

Why don’t you use your free time to do something other than respond to me if you care so little and have so little patience? If you have nothing new to add to the conversation then simply remain silent.

What are you even on about?

This person might just be dumber than a 10 y/o. Do you guys not learn what a genre is one elementary??

*in autocorrect turned it into one

Of course I know what a genre is. I just don't understand why your talking about that.

*you're

“Rape” is not…usually a term you’d use as a genre classifier. It’s an element of this story. Many would classify this story as being a “Romance” or even a “Slice of Life.”

Or yeah, as is listed on the webtoon here, “Yaoi,” “Smut,” “Drama” as well.

Exactly. I was gonna say the same thing.

Unless you want to rehash the debate? What is YOUR definition of consent, then?

Okay so, I'm just gonna say this to wrap things up. I do believe that if there were no contract then it would be rape. I think we can all agree on that. But I do still believe that now that there is a contract there is no rape, because they have this agreement about sex whenever and wherever. So yeah, that's my take on it. And if you disagree then that's fine. I can understand where you are coming from, but I just don't agree in this situation.

Thank you very much for hearing me out, sincerely. Again, I’m really glad you could see where I was coming from and I’m glad you understand now how at least some of Jaekyung’s actions have been nonconsensual.

I’ve been thinking about the contractual agreement and how it’s been worded and how it’s being enforced. Again, I just want you to hear me out on this. Can I ask first if you work or if you go to school?

I go to school

Cool! Me too :) I also work two jobs at the moment. Okay well technically three…? All part time LOL but anyway, okay—let’s say for one reason or another, you can’t or don’t want to go to school. Can your school force you to go to school? Can they physically take you from your home (or wherever you are at the moment) and make you sit in your classes for that day?

Oh... wow nice!

No, not really.

If they did, wouldn’t that be against your will? Even though you’re (likely) legally obligated to go to school?

I’ll say that for work, even though I’m legally obligated to, well, do my work…I don’t have to. And it is in fact illegal for employers, at least where I am, to force me to come into work, or to keep me at work/force me to work overtime.

To be clear, this doesn’t mean I won’t face consequences, legal or otherwise!

I mean, yes it would be against my will if I didn't want to. But at the same time, I'm going to school for a reason. I chose this after all and if I don't go I won't get any money. Then it would all be for nothing.

Sure! My grades would suffer if I didn’t go to school. I wouldn’t be able to spend money on things I want AND need if I didn’t have my jobs. So I choose to work.

But—I still retain my right to say no. Neither my school nor my work can force me to come into school or work against my will. They can expel me, terminate me, pursue legal action against me…but they cannot force me to work against my will. At that point they are not only doing something outside of the contract, but they are also doing something that is outright illegal in many places.

Let’s get back to the webtoon.

To begin with, we both agree with the FRIES model of consent, which states that true consent must be able to be reversed, and that true consent must be specific. This holds true under contracts as well. Any contract that completely waives out your right to say no is a slave contract, which strips away your basic human rights and renders you a piece of property. At that point it isn’t legal (in many places), moral, or ethical.

So if Dan’s work is sex work, and he says no to doing that work, then Jaekyung has every right to not pay him, to terminate their contract, and/or pursue action against him (more on that in a bit). He cannot force Dan to do work, AKA force him to continue having sex with him even after Dan has said no. He cannot take away Dan’s right to refuse harm or non-consensual acts, even under contract. Doing so crosses over into rape.

Their contract is in and of itself somewhat ambiguous. You said many times that it stipulated that Jaekyung can have sex with Dan “whenever, wherever, no matter the circumstances” right? I do believe you that that’s the exact wording! Even putting aside that Dan retains the right to take back his consent and/or agreement to the contract at any time, the contract doesn’t explicitly say that Jaekyung is entitled to having rough, painful sex with Dan. Dan is 100% within his rights to refuse that type of sex, and ask for something else to be done without facing some type of retaliation, as doing so does not violate their agreement.

All contracts can be renegotiated—even ones where someone initially agreed to all the terms. Even Jaekyung knows this. After Dan wins their little sparring match, he willingly opens the floor for Dan to make requests about how he wants their arrangement to change. Dan makes a couple requests, I believe, but the only one I explicitly remember is when he asks if Jaekyung could use condoms, and Jaekyung refused. Which just goes to show that Jaekyung holds most of the power and control in this situation, while Dan is put at heavy disadvantage, even as he tries to exercise his right to refuse.

So in conclusion, I believe that even under contract, Jaekyung rapes Dan several times. I will lend to you that things become somewhat more ambiguous, even for me, as Dan’s feelings start to develop. This doesn’t change or negate the fact that Jaekyung ignored his previous revocations of consent. Again, let me know if I’m missing anything or if there’s something I haven’t considered.

LMAO I forgot to clarify the “more on that in a bit” yeah the thing is Dan and Jaekyung’s contract is, I believe, a purely verbal one. I’m not 100% clear on what makes a contract legally binding or not, or how exactly to make a verbal agreement into a legally binding contract but nonetheless…unclear whether or not it’s a legally binding one.

Honestly this point isn’t really important to my broader point, but it is an interesting aspect of the contract nonetheless. Given that it’s not necessarily recorded anywhere, I believe it would make it very difficult for either of them to pursue any legal action in the case that either one of them breaks terms. Of course this would likely be much harder on Dan for a whole host of reasons, the most obvious one being he probably wouldn’t even be able to afford a good lawyer. Which frankly shows how in many ways, while, yeah, Dan is being paid well for his work, in terms of consequences? It’s still a wildly unfair contract for Dan in comparison for Jaekyung. Jaekyung, who can easily find another person to fuck, vs. Dan, whose job prospects are still probably kinda fucked.

I think it also highlights the flexibility of the contract. Again, any contract can be renegotiated, but a verbal one that isn’t even down in writing? No lawyers involved in its creation? You, or well, THEY can just kind of do whatever they want, decide on whatever, whenever. Again, Jaekyung can just…not do what he’s doing.

I'm not gonna comment on anything else, I just want to point this out: that yes, we only get to witness their verbal agreement, but I think they also have a written agreement because when they agree on the terms of the contract Dan says something like this: "If you can give me this much money, I'll sign" and if I remember correctly, he also says in a different chapter something like this: "I know I signed a contract, but this is just too much."

AAAND one last thing. The reason why THIS stuff is importante to me in particular is because sex workers and the abuse, sexual assault, and rape they face also tends to be downplayed because they “signed up for it,” even though contracts for sex work also have rules and boundaries put in place to reflect the workers’ wishes and protect them, and even though those workers also still retain the right to say no and/or refuse to do things they don’t want to.

Fair enough! I don’t remember those details/that wording but I’ll take you at your word. That does address the (possible) legality of the contract but I don’t think it really changes my overall point that consent can still be violated under contract.

Thank you for conversing with me. I have been doing work regarding the teaching and portrayal of sex ed and consent for years now so this something close to my heart. Too many people are hurt due to misunderstandings about these things, and because of the culture (or cultures) we live in overall. So even if we don’t fully agree with each other, I really, really hope you took something meaningful away from the conversation, and that you can keep yourself and others a little safer from now on c:

SPEAK ON IT! DONT LET THEM SILENCE YOU!!

come here and provide me with direct evidence from the webtoon that there is no rape depicted in it. give me your direct definition of rape. point me to specific chapters, i will go out of my way to reread them and tell you what i think and we can discuss from there. then, without defaulting to “it’s just fiction,” tell me why i should not be at least a little bit concerned that people are unable to tell when something is consensual vs. nonconsensual, REGARDLESS of it is in a fictional context or not.

It’s been years of trying to convince people that Jaekyung's actions toward Dan weren’t rape, but every attempt has failed. My use of alternate accounts, like Belovederose where I pretended to be a girl and a rape victim, only backfired. I was caught almost immediately, discredited for lying and creating fake personas. The same happened on my TM account where I claimed to be a lawyer—I couldn’t keep up the façade. After all this time on the site, I haven’t been able to sway even a single person to my side, and I’ve begun to realize that I was even trying to convince myself.

Now, I’ve decided to take a different approach—pretending to be a rape victim once again. I know that, by adopting this identity, people will place more weight on my words, and they’ll be less likely to question me. I don’t need proof anymore; the truth will be in my narrative. Of course, no one would willingly force themselves upon a 37-year-old man living on Mangago, but by presenting myself as a victim, I somehow become more credible, more desirable. Sure, I failed at being a girl on Belovederose, a lawyer on TM, and a gay father on Tora. I’ve been caught out every time. But no one can definitively tell me I wasn’t a rape victim—those claims are harder to dispute, and I know that gives me power. Just as no one can convince me that my use of ChatGPT isn’t blatantly obvious, I remain defiant in my narrative, regardless of its foundation in fiction.

Warning About Cyberstalking
[Morning Diamonds 10/7 is right September 20, 2024 6:50 pm] is a cyberstalker.

My friend will not engage with Akaito because of how Akaito treated my friend.

I want to bring attention to an ongoing issue of cyberstalking in this community. Cyberstalkers often impersonate others and spread misinformation to manipulate and harass individuals. Please be vigilant when interacting with users and verify their identities. If you suspect someone is engaging in cyberstalking or impersonation, and avoid engaging with them. Your safety and well-being are important!

rapist lover above [TM] will yap about anything but the topic he's so invested in. Because nothing will be able to convince anyone that Jaekyung isn't a rapist.

I am not TM, but I was called a 'rape lover' by the cyberstalker. Is this not a reflection of their behavior? They resort to cyberstalking and impersonation to force others to see rape in a story or to silence differing opinions. This is deeply troubling and manipulative.

Moreover, their statement is contradictory. If someone is labeled a 'rape lover,' they would be inclined to see rape and believe Jaekyung is a rapist. However, there is no rape in Jinx; Jaekyung is a sexual assaulter. It seems like a projection of their own views rather than an accurate characterization of others. It’s concerning that they resort to such tactics.

Hey everyone,
Ignoring the cyberstalker impersonating my friend situation and making me one of their other targets (again).

Before you respond to Akaito look at how he has been treating others.
https://www.mangago.zone/home/mangatopic/17083687/?page=1

Part 1: https://www.mangago.zone/home/mangatopic/16678110/

https://imgur.com/cfVWtrf
https://imgur.com/wk3AZ2t
https://imgur.com/A78VhFs

Part 2:
https://www.mangago.zone/home/mangatopic/16683925/

https://imgur.com/GJc1kC3
https://imgur.com/w4ZZCCH
https://imgur.com/FGEPyQx
https://imgur.com/d1YJ4YS
https://imgur.com/QrEhrS9
https://imgur.com/2KAMV42
https://imgur.com/fBUx6KG
https://imgur.com/jD8K5VV
https://imgur.com/EByYGCh
https://imgur.com/XM0mbPW
https://imgur.com/GYH1Ukh

https://imgur.com/N8VTmyk (expressing the desire to keep "pressing" us.)


https://www.mangago.zone/home/mangatopic/16746982/

https://imgur.com/nVJCHBA

https://www.mangago.zone/home/mangatopic/17085670/

Hello everyone, I am Morning diamonds aka the alt account of Tm. I will reply to this thread again but I will not address the topic of it. That is simply because I cannot disprove Jaekyung hasn't raped Dan. Please allow me to remain delusional.

Warning About Cyberstalking
[TM joined on 1/26/20] September 23, 2024 8:38 pm is a cyberstalker. Look at the profiles. Two different people with two different accounts.
As the real [TM joined on 1/26/20] said.
I want to bring attention to an ongoing issue of cyberstalking in this community. Cyberstalkers often impersonate others and spread misinformation to manipulate and harass individuals. Please be vigilant when interacting with users and verify their identities. If you suspect someone is engaging in cyberstalking or impersonation, and avoid engaging with them. Your safety and well-being are important!

PS TM knows Jinx isn’t rape. The cyberstalker is spreading falsehoods. TM has said he thinks Jinx is dull too.
Morning diamonds has condemn Jk and don’t read toxic stories much.
This cyberstalker has make four of their targets to be one person. That is how desperate they are to silence the truth that goes against their beliefs.

The user above is NOT me. It is my cyberstalker obsessed with me and my alt accounts. It is easy to spot him as he is a rape defender and shameless user of Chatgpt.

The real user {MD Joined on 10/7/23} was called a 'rape defender' by the cyberstalker. Is this not a reflection of the cybestalker's behavior? They resort to cyberstalking and impersonation to force others to see rape in a story or to silence differing opinions. This is deeply troubling and manipulative.

nb4 "dan's few moments of strength aren't meant to be key moments, he's not meant to become stronger!" i'd say to that: yes, and. yes dan is meant to endure suffering from jaekyung for the sake of the bit And he can/could’ve done so while still exhibiting a few more moments of strength. yes he may not have ever meant to be strong or become strong And him becoming weaker over time is still perfectly compatible with the groveling arc, while also giving him and jaekyung more complexity as characters. in fact, writing it like this provides more material for the groveling arc and strengthens it—there could be (or could've been) a moment where jaekyung reflects on the early stages of his relationship with dan, realizing that over the course of their "relationship," dan had lost the fight that had been present in those early stages, realize it's his fault, and come to feel deep remorse over it. he could end up reflecting on how his relationship with dan and the way he erodes people's psyches isn’t a singular thing but something that happens in almost all his relationships with other people and be driven to change because of it. so ╮(￣▽￣)╭

nb4 "dan isn’t meant to be strong or become strong, these weren't meant to be key moments!" to that i’ll only say yes, and. yes dan is meant to endure suffering from jaekyung for the sake of the bit And he can/could’ve done so while still exhibiting a few more moments of strength. yes he may not have ever meant to be strong or become strong And him becoming weaker over time is still perfectly compatible with the groveling arc we know the story is going to go on, while also giving him and jaekyung more complexity as characters. in fact, writing it like this provides more material for the groveling arc and strengthens it—there could be a moment where jaekyung realizes that the fight that dan used to have had eroded over the course of their "relationship" and feel deep remorse over it. he could end up reflecting on how his relationship with dan isn’t a singular thing but a consistent pattern of behavior he carries into all his relationships, and be driven to change because of it. so ╮(￣▽￣)╭

not the double post. shit was NOT loading i thought my initial addendum had been deleted. silly site.

I love your analysis and I hope that Dan really gets a development as a character..! I like Kim Dan a lot, he's a strong person who went through a lot and I just want to see him happy for once. Leaving aside the toxicity of jaekyung, I really want to know more about his character: from his childhood to his adulthood. Also, if I'm not wrong, the white haired guy teased something about jaekyung's past, right? I'm very impatient right now, I want to see what will happen in the next season!

...

Dude you're creeping the hell out of me

okay…then leave? lol

thank you, i'm glad you liked it!! i really hope dan gets some substantial development, too, and that he can find happiness. he is truly the embodiment of precious cinnamon roll, too good for this world, too pure. i would prefer if he found happiness outside of jaekyung but, alas...i suppose i could settle with an ending where jaekyung becomes a better person and treats him right.

we did get that teaser about jaekyung's past though i am curious...we will just have to see.

Uhmm... No? Lol

They weren't talking to you.

one can only hope minghwa has half of your literary talents

I promise you it's never this serious please tell me you have a life outside of writing essays for this horrible load of shit

omg so fucking real, doesnt matter what other people say but if mingwa did this id actuall read season 2

Fool your just mad that a normalized Mac is getting his shit together. I honestly believe that you people don’t think this is bad and just want to see Kim Dan getting fucked

i do actually! but that life does indeed consist of engaging with and thinking about and writing about other pieces of art (and doing other things too, of course) so don’t worry this is like enrichment for me

IM SO SORRY I DIDNT MEAN TO REPLY TO YOU , YOURE SO RIGHT I MEANT TO REPLY TO BRUH MOMENT

you did, don’t worry i was also replying to them :)

Did you even read what I said? I obviously said this is a load of shit and if you dislike it so much stop writing essays about it.. It's going to be months for this manga to get a seaskon 2 because of how fucked this thing is. Nobody wants to see him fuck, trust me we all want this to be over or discontinued. Don't paint me as a weirdo.

If you have a life outside of writing essays on stupid shit like this I suggest you spend your time on something that's actually worth it.

i genuinely can’t tell if you’re meaning to insult me or not, especially since it seems you dislike the webtoon and…well i can’t say i hate the webtoon myself, i don’t care enough about it personally to hate it, but i’m certainly very critical of it myself—in which case i don’t really understand why you would be invested in me not expressing said criticism…

but to clarify: this is worth it to me. i like analyzing stuff and understanding how/why it works, how/why it doesn’t work, and how it could be (or could’ve been) improved. it is of great benefit to me as a writer myself, and it’s just plain fun for me. things that have incredibly missed potential—things with interesting concepts but poor execution—tend to especially capture my attention, and to me, this webtoon fits that criteria. as a result, i have a lot of thoughts about it, and i’d like to get those thoughts out of my brain and put them somewhere, share them with people who have actually read the thing i’m talking about and who are themselves interested in this kind of thing. it’s okay if you don’t see the point or value in it! but this is my personal fun. so i’ll keep having fun here and i will also have fun doing other things, too! you can do many things in this life :)

Why are you so mad over something that can possibly bother if your not a ignorant dipshit

THANKKK you guys weren’t hearing me out when I literally called Akaito a fking weirdo bro stays in Mggao basement writing a whole ass argument essay on 2 dudes who literally like sucking dick and putting dick in they ass, yaoi is never that serious especially Jinx like they have this attitude towards Jinx imagine if their ass discover MRM

you’re valid for reading and engaging w/ the story in the way you like but i can’t help but glance at you a bit sideways when you call yourselves fans but then shit on someone who’s actually willing to engage with the material. anyway, what is MRM?

also my first paragraph here quite literally addresses the idea that a lot of y’all, including the author, might not/don’t care for this story other than to see dan getting fucked. it’s almost like if you take the time to read what people are saying, you’ll understand them and their points better, and not say things that are redundant. if you’re bothered by my essays then “don’t like don’t read” as they say, right? why are you trying to dissuade me? just keep pointing and laughing if you find it weird or pathetic, then we all win ╮(￣▽￣)╭

I'm not saying I dislike you but I'm saying it's completely worthless to talk about this load of shit I'd say a better a one to talk about is sign. Analyze about sign.

agree to disagree then. i’ve read sign before though, a while back. it was really sweet from what i remember! but i do also remember getting jumpscared by random ass drunken sex in there anyway, i don’t have any particular interest in revisiting it—unless you want to pay me of course ;) honestly i don’t care for romance as a standalone genre anymore in general. the only reason why i came here in the first place was bc of a video essay that floated its way onto my algorithm, i wanted to investigate the source material myself and form my own opinions about it before watching. many such cases. and i am still here for the aforementioned reasons. if you have something that’s fantasy or sci-fi and/or features and deals with psychological stuff then maybe i’ll consider checking it out. alternatively, send me other could-have-been-great webtoons. LOL

I don’t get people like you, if it bothers you so much then just ignore it.You guys are the same people who start problems

Your not even engaging u just tryna be messy and start drama with other ppl

And you not knowing MRM goes to show how you don’t know there’s way worse Yaoi than Jinx and shows how close-minded you are. Y’all make Jinx to be the worst yaoi on earth when it’s low-tier content, and also about engaging you literally where shitting on Jinx don’t act like u are trying to engage

yeah so you’re just not reading my posts at all

It’s because you are, Heck I personally hate jinx. But as soon as something good actually happens and someone writes their opinion YALL hate.You can just ignore but you people are the same people who start a problem. Please stop being such a hypocrite

i really don’t get why you’re continuing to interact with me without actually reading and understanding what i have to say, and it’s also getting annoying to see you constantly double down on things that are evidently not true. i do not hate this webtoon, i think it could have been written better. i do not take deep issue with the content portrayed in this webtoon, it is one very specific type of audience response to the webtoon i take issue with. i do not think this webtoon is the worst webtoon on earth, neither in terms of content or writing. even in this post i point out moments in the webtoon i liked and found interesting but that i, again, felt/feel the author could(‘ve) lean(ed) into more. if expressing my disappointment in the webtoon for not realizing the full potential that i legitimately see it having as a story (so far), if offering both praise and critiques of specific elements and moments of the webtoon, if thinking about ways things could have been written differently to strengthen the story laid out here as it is all just seem like me doing nothing but shitting on the webtoon then i really don’t know what to tell you. there is a difference between blind hatred and criticism and i suggest you uncouple yourself and your like for this webtoon enough to learn it. either read what i have to say in full or stop bothering to interact with my posts.

MRM definition according to urban dictionary since you wouldn’t tell me what it is and decided to call me close-minded about something i don’t even know about and ignorant of worse webtoons/stories: “myreadingmanga also shortened to mrm, a manga, comic, and video website thats just gay porn. usually known for having weird stuff. such incest, shotacon, mindbreak, etc.”

yeah buddy i’ve read this kind of stuff before. lol. lmao, even.

nb4 "the story isn't over yet" (if anyone even reads this lol) i know! and i think that some of these things could still maybe be incorporated later and somewhat benefit the story but...a lot of the elements i've mentioned here are typically things you'd introduce and hint at earlier on in the story (though there are various ways to tell a story, anyway). to add jaekyung's sad backstory now, for example, would almost feel like a very late attempt at an explanation for his actions previously. and some of these are things that i'm almost certain will never be incorporated into the story, as in, the author has no intention to do so, such as complicating dan's backstory. which is fine, it's her story, but i think it makes it weaker as a result.

YES YES YES

I feel like it going “deeper into the portrayal of abuse” is just… an extremely unrealistic expectation. Im sure there are plenty of pieces of media out there that were made with the intention of doing so, and are probably written way better! Youre asking it to be some think piece this was obviously never going to be. BL isnt even supposed to be an accurate representation of gay guys, its more like the “idea” of a gay guy. Think of it the same way Euphoria depicts the “idea” of a teenager, rather than what a teenager actually is. I feel like trying to take this seriously would be a slap in the face to media that was ACTUALLY made with the intention of being taken seriously

Hm yeah I won’t deny I do tend to have high standards for/expectations of what art I engage with at this point in my life and you are right that there are other pieces of media that do part of what I’m asking for much better! I also know that I tend to be deeply interested in character psychology and how that impacts their interpersonal relationships with one another. It seems true enough to me that the author might not be interested in psychology all that much but she is evidently interested in the relationships. Either way yes, I can’t expect every story to delve into these things to the extent I might if I were writing them.

But at the same time, I don’t think my expectations here are all that unreasonable. Like I said, she chose to include the element into her story and have it be a prominent part of the dynamic between Jaekyung and Dan. To say it’s unrealistic of me to expect more out of that dynamic is like…it’s like, imagine we watch a movie together, and the camera spends an inordinate amount of time focusing on one specific door, but no one in the movie ever really interacts with the door. They might talk about it, they might walk around it, they might touch the doorknob, etc…but they never open it and we never see what’s behind it. Would it really be that unnatural for me to ask what the purpose of the door was? To wonder why they never opened the door? Or wonder what’s behind the door? And if it turned out the door wasn’t that significant then…why would you film the door so much in the first place? Wouldn’t it have been better for the showrunners to direct audience attention towards the things they find actually important?

I’m really not asking it to be a think piece, although I can see how/why you might’ve come to that conclusion based on what I wrote about here…I understand it’s ultimately trying to be a romance story with smut. But don’t you have to have some buy into the characters in a romance to want to see them together? Understand and sympathize with them and where they’re coming from? To me, I don’t even think that the author would have to do much to have deepened her characters a bit. Like with the idea of Dan having parents that enforced this idea of love as financial support—all it would’ve taken to establish something like that would be something like, maybe one little dream sequence. Like how we learn Dan is afraid of being alone from his dream where he’s younger and his grandma disappears for a bit (ough I’m tearing up thinking about it). We didn’t spend a lot of time in that dream, and the author didn’t have to say much about it thereafter, but it was a quick and efficient way to communicate something about Dan as a character and what motivates him without having to do much of anything else.

And like not to go Uno Reverse on you or anything, I’m saying this genuinely, but there are people who legitimately love this webtoon for whatever reason, or think that it’s great. I’m not necessarily trying to change their minds but like…isn’t saying that it’s not serious a slap to the face to both those readers and to the author herself? How do we know she isn’t putting her whole heart into creating this thing in whatever shape it’s taking? I think if it wasn’t meant to be serious it simply would’ve been just straight up porn most chapters, no?

Like y’know as a fic writer who loves their smut—I have a story that was originally supposed to be just porn with feelings, but then it grew a crazy plot. It still has the smut, but I’ve spent an inordinate amount of time developing the not-smut, too. If I wanted people to focus on the smut, I would’ve just cut back on all the other stuff…but I want them to focus on much more, so, yeah. And in fact, I have a series of one-shots that are just pure porn. They don’t fit into or really explore any broader/more complex context outside of the fucking because it’s just not supposed to be about the other stuff, y’know? But to me, this story feels like (or at least at the beginning) felt like it was trying to be about other stuff, too. So. But maybe not! ╮(￣▽￣)╭

idegaf abt the original discourse or manhwa - heck i have not once read a single page of jinx but just come to the comment section to have a ki cause everyone here is extremely messy

sorry i cut myself off, but i love how eloquent u r n i wholly agree with the points you make both in terms of just the general machinations of the human psyche and as elements of characters im a story like wow u hit it out of the park with this comment and it encapsulates my criticisms with a bunch of bl webtoons who try to pass of their "romance" amidst all the bullshit abusive mess as... passable ig, as something "deeper" than rushed and artificial and surface-level, as something the author can convince us is something that is genuine and compelling by itself instead of a romance that we can see is orchestrated by the author because there are fundamental parts and aspects of the characters and/story where this romance doesn't make sense and falls apart if we give it even at least more than 3 seconds of thought so yea i just wanted to commend the breakdown and criticism u provided here. also lowk find it funny how one of the more eloquent constructive criticism and explanation of character psychology ive found is on the comment section of a shitty bl smut webtoon on a pirated manga site like whoa u never know what life will throw at u

haha thank you!! i try :) yeah i didn’t expect to be in this comment section either but alas it’s a fun exercise for me to think through these things so might as well do it here…and i have so much more to say about this story and the things it could’ve done. and you know like, i understand that in many ways this is meant to be just smut or sexual fantasy or something “lighthearted” but it’s also like seriously am i meant to ignore the abuse? when you plan to and already have declared the characters are also in genuine love with each other? i’m sorry but that’s a level of cognitive dissonance i’m unable to suspend my disbelief enough to fall into

mm one more addendum to the idea that leaning more into the abuse is an unrealistic expectation of the story and what it’s trying to do—we all already know that at some point jaekyung is meant to realize all the wrong he’s done, right? i don’t know how this story is actually specifically going to play out beyond that but doesn’t this mean that jaekyung is himself going to have to acknowledge the abuse he carried out on dan, and how badly it impacted and still impacts him? even if we say oh okay we’re not gonna explore the past trauma these two must’ve/might’ve endured to become the way they are (which, as i said, feels like a weak move to me), won’t we at least have to address and explore the lingering trauma of This relationship? or, what, is it just gonna be dan being like “teehee i forgive you for months(?) of sexual violence and emotional abuse” the moment jaekyung turns coat, and there being zero evidence of said months(?) of sexual violence and emotional abuse left on dan’s psyche? forget about whether or not that’s realistic—is that even satisfying as a narrative arc?

Er...I'm not reading all that. Summarise your comment in one sentence and reshare. Thanks.

If you don’t want to read it then don’t comment and keep that bitch ass comment too yourself <3 hope this helps