The author is doing a great job with Seungho's arc, even more that she must see the annoying pricks who use the hashtag of her story to whine endlessly about the character not doing what they want.
Jesus Fucking Christ, if only we were blessed with these people following their word and actually dropping the story every time Seungho 'disappoints' them.... instead of having them hanging around chapter after chapter whining and promising to drop it.
If the story is frustrating you, take a break, go read something else. Wait for the 'development' that fits your formula and then come back... or don't.
The outrage over this chapter is ridiculous. And what is the reason? Does Seungho actually go through with what he thought he could? No. He acted exactly like it would make sense for the sequence of events .... he got mocked by Min, then Nakyum, unintentionally, makes it worse because his comment hit Seungho as both confirmation that his feeling is ridiculous but also looked like a rejection ... and amazingly, what Seungho say?.... does he goes on a rant about Nakyum being a lowborn or formulate a brilliant answer... all he could do is an agonizing .'right'..... he couldn't even deny it properly. He is heartbroken over Nakyum's dismissal of his feelings ( not that NK is doing to humiliate him, NK just doesn't find himself worth it).
Then Seungho does what he must do to prove himself that he is indifferent.... he tries, really tries this time to treat Nakyum as any other of his whores. Is everyone missing the point that he just couldn't do it? He drinks, he makes Nakyum drink, he tries to put himself and Nakyum in a state of complete numbness ( and I believe he does this to NK exactly because he intended to go through with it but didn't want NK to actually suffer thus he gave him a way to be out of it).
Seungho isn't able to hurt Nakyum anymore. He can't see him with other men, he can't see him getting hurt.... he was always bothered by his actions to NK more than he was ever bothered by anything else he did to anyone but obviously he become more aware of it. He even let is out once 'It hurts' (in the scene where he wants NK to eat his food). It hurts to see NK sad or hurt and this chapter, when Seungho tried to cross that line and actually see NK getting done by others, his expression shows that he finally got it. He is in love with Nakyum and this is the chapter he settled this in his head.
Now go whine some more about the story not going quick enough for you.
Well said (๑•ㅂ•)و✧
Lost in all the furor and hair pulling hysterics over Seungho's last comments is the fact that Nakyum went looking for Seungho.
Everybody is looking at Seungho for development but there is something going on with Nakyum as well and we are barely noticing.
We already know he touches himself thinking of Seungho and now we know he actually misses the lord of the house visiting him.
This would be the best for him, Seungho leaving him alone, not demanding sex, not asking for paintings ... so why go after Seungho? And at what risk?
No matter what the servant said, it was still very bold of him, a lowborn, to go knock on the master's room without being summoned. He used the painting as excused and he actually went for it.
In the quiet and subtle development of Nakyum, one thing that seems to be the pattern is that Nakyum many times is the one taking the lead -- the sex scenes is where we can see this more, when he surprises Seungho with kisses and touches, what most of the time leaves Seungho undone and submissive.
Nakyum analyzing Seungho is a thing of beauty. 'He is truly a mystery ...he won't even look at my painting ... but gaze at me with unreadable expression'.... Nakyum can't read Seungho ( contrast with Min that apparently learnt to observe Seungho and knows very well what is going on). On the other hand, even if Nakyum can't read Seungho, he sensed the mixed signals. For all that he wants to show, Seungho is cold and cruel and doesn't care but then why Nakyum can sense the warmth ( care) in an intimate embrace?
I hope the author doesn't detour from their development... These two are a mystery to each other and just now Nakyum is clumsily learning how to go after what he wants, even despite the fear of the mystery.
That is probably the first time I feel a bit disappointed with POTN.
I mean, it's already a trope so these rape plots have to be careful in my opinion to balance a bit and not overdo with all tropes you can get in Yaoi.... one trope at time and then if possible add drama that makes the plot row.
What is the author doing here? Adding a gay character for Jihwa so he has a pairing.
That reminds me of the Devil's Temptation where the author seemed to have added a character just so the side character that has some fans don't end up alone. Just like there we are supposed to not notice that they look like twins with a few changes. ( can't readers see it's exactly the same Seungho's face with beard, tattoos and unwashed look?)
I'm all for fanservice but here is my beef with this: Seungho already falls into the cliche/trope hot bad boy but Seungho is the main character and therefore the author has to put background and personality on him and let's face it .... with the chapters being so short, there is a lot yet to cover. Now the author adds a new hot daddy that has no other function that fanservice smut with Jihwa. The problem is that either the author focus on developing Seungho and Nakyum personality and all we get is a hot mofo assassin ... or she will neglect the MCs and start adding on the assassin.
I feel a lot of readers are excited for the new hot bod but personally I feel really suspicious when the story start adding characters when it is already lacking meat for the main ones.
I feel it is too late now because it's clear we will get a detour about the new guy smut with Jihwa and probably Seungho x Nakyum story will start feel like an afterthought.
Too many stories start great just to fall into the trap of 'side characters are added and the MC development gets stalled' . The chapters of this story are just too short for the author to tell a good story with two couples .... or to develop one strong seme. And frankly I don't care how hot the assassin is, a story needs a strong backbone and main character developed otherwise it starts to feel just a lot of things glued together.
The assassination plot really feels weak now because there is no real threat to Nakyum here. The character is just here to show his muscles and have sex with Jihwa.
It is possible the author is trying to appease the readers who whine so much about Seungho and needed another man to root for in the story. However, it's a pity because there is no way the main characters will get a full development now having to make space for the hot hobo and Jihwa. I can get hot characters anywhere. Well developed ones, not so much and for a first time I feel like the author is adding fillers and doesn't know what to do with the main characters.
The assassination plot would have been so interesting if the assassin was really there for it. However, even if he adds the little drama that won't end up killing anyone, the 'Seungho' clone created so Jihwa gets a boyfriend ruined that arc.
It's not fair of me to judge the author, but I kinda think the story is getting out of her hands. I know It's too soon to say this after reading just a few chapters of season 2. And we all know that she is really talented and we all trust her.
We should just wait to confirm if our assumption is true or not
We really don't know if the nameless and jihwa character is second pair ship or not. Byeonduck just create this chapter for people who question what the assassin is doing? Because he supposed to kill nakyum. For me the new chapter is okay, to have some other character scene to make the story become understanding
It seems the author wrote something on her twitter celebrating reaching the 50th episode.
The translation I got is from Google but it says something like this"
" 50 episodes ... that's impressive. Seungho and Nakyum relationship started out in a bad way, so it seems difficult to fix it/work out easily. But soon.. wouldn't they have a good atmosphere/mood? ... I think it's close but because this is a weekly series, it might look too slow/too far yet for the readers. Stay/stick with Nakyum x Seungho in episode 50"
I don't know, maybe the translation is not a 100% but doesn't that sound a lot promising for the shippers of Nakyum x Seungho and I think the author may recognize that a lot of readers are impatient to see lovey dovey but personally I think that if Seungho were to turn sweet too soon, the character's redemption would look weak.
I see a lot of readers using this chapter to show that 'finally' Seungho is showing development. I find weird because to me Seungho started to show development the minute Nakyum walked into his life. Every habit of his changed day by day. What happened in chapter 50 was not a development of feelings by Seungho --- that ship had already sailed. What we see in chapter 50 is the development of his awareness that all that he has been doing is not because of the sex.
Thank you! Someone else noticed.
Seungho didn't suddenly fall in love in this chapter, he's just finally understanding what he's been feeling and expressing it.
Seungho's been into Nakyum since day one. He's been steadily wanting him despite being surrounded by other nobles.
Upvote for this
Essay on the dangers of policing morality in fiction - part 1:
One of my favorite Yaoi characters is Yashiro from Saezuru. He is an Yakuza mob boss.
I assume no one needs an explanation that Yakuza is a very bad organization and anyone associated with it is not a good person. Actually they are really, really horrible people, especially if they are higher ups because no one gets to be boss in a mob without a few bodies in the trunk.
Since Yashiro is an Yakuza boss with long and successful career in the organization, it goes without saying that his life involved crimes just as heavy as any real Yakuza boss. Although Yashiro doesn't kill anyone in the story, he seems quite willing to do dirty work when needed so it would not be out of realm to assume he has even ordered murder once or twice in his life.
I root for Yashiro, I ship him with his bodyguard Doumeki that, despite being a 'good' guy is also someone who can torture or kill someone if only this are his orders and specially if it comes from his beloved boss.
Yakuza is actually quite a common background for many Yaoi 'favorites' and strangely enough I never once saw anyone hang around Seazuru or any other of those lecturing people that they shouldn't be rooting for Yashiro because it is wrong. I never saw anyone hang around Saezuru saying that they want Yashiro in prison for his life of crime.
Is it because people have the ability to see that just because readers can root for an Yakuza boss in fiction and know that crime is wrong, this does not mean that the readers glorify real Yakuza bosses?
I never saw anyone posting there that Saezuru 'normalizes' crime so why there is this double standard with stories that have rape plot?
You may feel very smart or superior coming here with your : 'you can't justify rape just because it's fiction' but I actually can. Because just like I can justify loving and rooting for Yashiro to get away with his crimes and find happiness because he is not a real Yakuza boss causing harm in the world, I can justify that a fictional, very unrealistic plot of a Seungho and Nakyum ship will never hurt anyone.
It is beyond comprehension that there are still people who can't understand that fiction is pretend, make believe, escape.
One can root, enjoy, love a murderer in a fictional story and this in any way means at all that they 'normalize' what they do in real life.
The fact that simple, basic logic like this still has to be explained to the people who hang around here bashing the shippers of rape plot is beyond me.
You're right.
By the way that manga is the BEST story in the world.
Essay on the dangers of policing morality in fiction Part 2:
Yaoi is one of the 'dirtiest' genre of entertainment out there. I say this because I have no argument against people who rally against the genre in general. Despite what seems to support (gay relationships), it is actually a very homophobic niche because, no matter how much we deny it, it is done purely as fantasy for girls and the seme/uke is blatant a heteronormative thing. And God knows how fujoshis are protective of their seme/uke rules .... so much so that couples who switch are practically inexistent in Yaoi.
My point with this is that: if you are reading Yaoi (and in an illegal site for that matter), have a bit of self awareness. Your moral ground to dictate, policy or shame others in matter of what is right or wrong to enjoy in fiction is already heavily compromised, either you admit it or not.
What I wish this new ( or not so new but growing and ferocious) group of readers who flock rape plot stories and stay shaming, dissing, mocking shippers realized is that be careful what you wish for. If you wish to abolish, eliminate, sanitize Yaoi stories so it will become a beacon for healthy, super educational love stories, you may lose also a lot that you don't notice you enjoy.
China and majority of its population uses the same morality policing to justify a heavy censorship of what they think is appropriate or not for the people. It is quite something to censor material for minors but think about how patronizing it is to policy what adults can read.
You are all doing the same shit when you come here, in a story clearly made for adults and start harping on how people should be reading this. Or that Yaoi ( again, a genre for adults) should have less of this and that. Who exactly do you guys think you are to tell adults what is right or wrong for them to read ? And do you really want people policing your taste in fiction?
I say that because what is most amazing in all this is that almost everyone reading in Yaoi dabbles in some kind of wrong relationship. Unless you stayed 'pure' shipping cute fluffy stories, chances are your list of reading and shipping includes plenty of inappropriate, forbidden, wrong or fucked up ships.
Believe me, you do not want a sanitized Yaoi. You do not want people dictating, censoring your fiction. If you use a 'morality' clause to crash down a particular niche of fiction one day that you don't like, tomorrow you will be plagued by a crowd that is even more righteous than you.
Just wait until the wokeness reaches to the level that Yaoi will be banned or constantly bashed to the point that you have to justify, explain like you are making other to do.
Essay part 3:
There are valid points about how fiction 'normalizes' behavior. However, please, please pay attention to the misguided effort you are all doing here. The key of all this is the word 'adult'. Show me one adult that will ever read a rape plot story in Yaoi and then decides this is normal. Show me one adult that will ever read incest or whatever else Yaoi adult story and then change their moral into thinking it is normal.
If you are really concerned about saving people from the dangers of reading fiction who 'normalizes' bad behavior, park your social justice warrior van in the stories here geared up towards teens, minors and pre teens. You do not need to do much research to find shounei ai stories who portray abuse/bullying/stalking/unwanted and forceful sexual advances as something cute.
If you are really ready for this conversation about which stories in this site should be the aim of your outrage, have a honest answer to the following question:
Which of these following scenarios are more likely to convince their audience that what they are reading is normal:
= Yaoi rape plot who portray a blatant very clear case of abuse like rape and it's geared at adults
or
= shounei ai plot where bullying/controlling/sexual harassment is diluted in blurred lines and it's geared to young people who just now are entering their sexual lives?
Again, no matter how many rape plots an adult read in Yaoi, it is very unlikely this will end up making them believe rape is normal.
On the other hand, the vast majority of teenagers in abusive relationship don't start their toxic relationships with something as easy to distinguish as abuse as rape but they may very well find it very cute that a possessive guy stalks them, forces them to wear jewelry or pins them on the bed is the best boyfriend ever.
What being an adult implies? That unless you have a learning disability, you are considered to be of a certain age where basic things don't need to explained to you.
One of the most common posts in here is people trying to 'explaining' to others that Seungho and Nakyum relationship is not normal or love. As if they were revealing a big unknown secret that no one else figured out.
People, if readers post: 'omg, Seungho is so in love with Nakyum', trust me, they do not need your patronizing lecturing that rape is wrong, this is not love, or to tell them that they are blind because this is not right. It is you who looks stupid because you look like that child who wandered into a room where adults are playing a game and you can't figure out if they really believe in what they say or not. Hint: just like there are adults who cosplay and dressed up as the silliest things, that doesn't not mean they really, actually believe in the thing in real life.
If all the shippers here were to put a big disclaimer for the children that may interpret their words as real, every shipper should start their post as :
"Please be advised that although I may ship or talk or look like I think this relationship is normal, this is love, blah, blah, blah, just know that I know that in real life this is not right'.
Yaoi is like a big tent full of rooms you choose to enter or not. If the room says Shotacon and you know you will be upset either by the story or the people enjoying or shipping something you don't like, please, act like the adult you are supposed to be: if you choose to read something and be among the people who are comfortable or ship what you don't like it, it is not everyone;s else job to stop posting what they want just you feel comfortable.
You chose to read this and you chose to read the comments that upset you. It is you who had to adapt to the room, not the other way around. Get it?
Yes, feel free to comment with your despise for the couple or the story --- a story that you don't enjoy but for some reason insists on following -- but I am yet to see any of these people be able to post an 'opinion' that is not about shaming, mocking, lecturing or provoking the readers of a niche they knew it would trigger then.
And that concludes my Ted Talking. Thanks for listening.
I agree and all but .... did you mean part 2? I'm confused. :)
That's a bad comparison. People here are criticizing the relationship between Seungho and Na-Kyum. It's quite different from commenting on a character's illegal activities. If Doumeki was a violent rapist, I can assure you the comment section would be on fire too.
First of all, this post is not about anyone criticizing the relationship between Seungho and Nakyum. It is about people criticizing/mocking and shaming the shippers. That is quite a different thing and if someone can't tell the difference between a reader not liking the relationship and then going further and shaming people who does, I won't dwell on this.
Second, it is a valid comparison because a lot of the people shaming the shippers use the argument that if something is a crime or unacceptable in real life, if a reader tolerates or engage in accepting or pretending it is in fiction, then they are to be shamed.
Again, criticize the relationship as much as you want. There is absolutely no one, not one single shipper posting in here saying that you have to accept or ship the couple. There is plenty though doing the opposite: demanding an explanation, mocking or shaming the shippers.
It is a rape plot and we are all adults in here. When you chose to read this you knew the trope and you knew there would be shippers. The further the story progresses, chances are that people who are triggered or upset by the rape plot trope are going to get even more upset and more aggressive shaming the shippers.
It is a fake story. A fictional couple. You can actually scroll down a couple of comments and see a post where someone comments that a rape is a crime and therefore it is wrong to ship Seungho x Nakyum. My comparison stands and my analogy too: if you are going to shame people for accepting, shipping, rooting for criminals in fiction, why is rape the only crjme in Yaoi that you you hang around shaming people?
Please don't try to conflate 'criticizing the relationship' with the whole shaming and harping about 'romanticize rape' in a fiction that is geared to adults.
eh? That's weird. Mangago ate my post, lol.
Going to try to post again, I hope it doesn't get duplicated.
Sorry, I don't know what you mean?... I can see my part 2.
Are you talking about something else?
Feel free to message me if you want.
Thank you for reading it! :)
It's fiction, pretend, made up, call it fake if you will. This indeed isn't normalizing anything and nobody who reads this will change their morals to thinking this is normal. Just enjoy the fantasy, amazing art and exciting story line. If you don't like it, I'd say just move on with your life. I dislike a ton of manga for various reasons (some also for rape), but I don't bash the manga, because the people who read it enjoy it very much and don't like reading comments about someone who hates the manga. They don't care for my opinion, and I don't feel much of an urge to share any negative comments. If I don't like it: ain't gonna spend anymore time on this than I already have and I'll just move along with my life. ╮(￣▽￣)╭ that's just how I stand in the matter
Agreed!!
You're missing the point. By saying rape in fiction is bad, other 'fictional' crimes are also bad. If you think reading about rape will inspire rape in real life/ normalize, then by that definition- reading about murder will inspire murder in real life/ normalize it. Again, if that is the logic you are going by, the government would have banned materials containing rape or murder. However, they did not, instead they did this thing called - putting an AGE RESTRICTION because they believe that once you are an adult, your brain is developed enough to know what is wrong or right and distinguish fiction vs reality.
Everyone here knows rape and murder is bad, but not everyone can distinguish fiction vs reality.
You're either naive or uninformed if you think rape is treated like other crimes in real life. Rape is very frequent and normalized. Most rapes aren't reported to the police. When they are, the rapists are very rarely arrested. Rape victims are commonly shamed for allegedly sharing responsibility with the rapists and somehow are seen are responsible for their own rape (dressed sexy, etc). It's also frequent for rape victims to simply be called liars.
Rape is an act that can destroy the body and almost always permanently destroy the mind. It's very difficult in a society that for starters doesn't really condemn rape to recover.
If you feel like rape in fiction is totally fine and doesn't contribute to normalizing rape further in real life then good for you but don't force other people to believe the same thing and avoid comparisons because there's nothing like it. The crime of rape is really unique and doesn't stand comparisons.
No, rape in fiction for ADULTS does not contribute to normalizing rape just like murder in fiction does not contribute to normalize murder.
How many rape plot stories would be enough to convince you that rape IN REAL LIFE is normal?
Answer this question. Please. Tell me. How is that work for you? You read 10 Yaoi rape plots and after a while you start thinking ... hmm... I think rape is normal after all. Is that it? That's your logic here?
If your feedback is that there are minor, gullible minors reading Yaoi rape plot my answer to you is that no one here is a baby sitter for minors who still at this time and age are not educated that rape is bad. Read my post part 3. This blabling about 'abuse is being normalized' in rape plot stories for ADULTS is a misguided effort. Go to the shounei ai for pre teens and please, by all means, do your job there educating those pre teens about those stories who do not use RAPE --- a very overtly aggression but instead dilute abuse in cute inappropriate things. There your claim would make sense because in order for some thing to be 'normalized' you need a mind that is not able to distinguish right from wrong.
Stop with this nonsense to try shame, guilt people into assigning them responsibility for crimes in real life just because they enjoy their fiction in a different way that you do.
No one, not a fucking person is 'forcing' you to believe in any thing. Quite the contrary. It's you and this crowd of people shaming adults for their fiction who are acting like Thought Police, Morality Police for fictional characters.
No one is actually forcing you to read what makes you uncomfortable. You made a choice to read a niche non conformative fiction knowing what you were signing for. Then you want everyone who are doing nothing to you to read the fiction based on your taste or tolerance.
Stop conflating real life with fiction because that's what you guys try to use to shame people. If you can't tell the difference between them, again, it's your problem not everyone else.
The weirdest thing is that you want to use double standards saying that rape is a crime that doesn't stand comparison. For whom? for you. and that is the point, isn't? You have your taste and standard of what you consider the worst and then you are the one trying to force others to read the story like you do otherwise they are assigned guilt for the evil of the world.
What a fucking weird thing to say. Physical torture, murder are also unique too. They may very well be just as 'normalizing' in real life as rape and they may be for other people much more triggering than rape. You don't fucking know what other people will find unique or worse.
When you find the answer to how many rape plot stories would take for you to start believe that rape is normal, please come back to me.
Otherwise what you are saying here is that you are safe from the normalizing but everyone other adult in here is a mentally challenged person who can't tell right from wrong.
Omg I just realized your user is some perv... wow how ironic lmao. Again you are missing the point. Anyway, we can agree to disagree. You can think that way and it's fine. I agree with the things you mentioned above, but again... rape is not normalized because people read this webtoon. It's not because people were reading yaoi. It's because there are fucked up people in this world.
I just don't understand why you frequent media that contain the things that you hate or are triggering to you. Again- no one here is saying rape is okay for the record. It just gets so annoying when you see countless people coming almost every chapter saying- 'rape is bad.' We KNOW rape is bad. This whole story is revolving around RAPE.
Then again your sn is some perv so maybe you secretly get off on this stuff
No one here is either naive or uniformed.
They are adults reading a fiction and they understand the difference.
Your argument here seems to be that it is fine for you to tolerate, glorify, cheer, 'normalize' in your mind all other hot criminals in your smut as long as the crime is not rape.
The irony there is that the example for comparison about the double standard was about readers who 'normalize' ( using your analogy that someone rooting for a rapist is normalizing what he does) an Yakuza mob boss. Yakuza criminals are responsible for countless real life rapes. The very same ones that you just described.
So, when you 'accept', normalize that a hot Yakuza boss is okay to be cherished, pardoned, rooted for then it is not wrong because all these crimes are not really described in the story and you can pretend the murderous, rapist organization they belong for is, in this case, just fine to ignore in fiction. Is that right?
Just trying to understand your logic here because you brought the horrors of rape in real life to justify why you would shame and assign responsibility for the crime in real life to the reads of the plot in fiction. On the other hand, somehow, readers who enjoy and root for hot mobsters who belong to an organization that in real life is responsible for the same crimes, that is okay to feel fine about it.
You can't have it both ways. Rape, pedophilia, torture, murder ... they are all 'unique' their own ways and they are all wrong in real life. You can't say that you are excused to root for a murderer mobster in fiction because you consider the crime of rape worst than murder and therefore you give a pass on one but the other you go around saying people are responsible for normalizing.
And to the point of the poster ... what exactly is your fear here about someone reading and shipping Seungho x Nakyum? That they will go in real life pardoning real rapists? That they will read this story and conclude that rape is normal?
If you are going to come here and start telling people they are to blame for real life rape happening, you better have some receipts. Do you know anyone who became a rapist after reading a Yaoi rape plot? Do you ever felt inclined to believe rape is normal after reading Yaoi rape plot? If so, how old were you?
Most importantly, how is that people reading their fiction and enjoying is in anyway forcing you to think like they do? Does anyone here said you have to ship the couple?
It is funny how your guys decide to read something you don't like it and then post shaming posts for the shippers and when you receive the much expected fuck off, you start acting like the victims who were just minding their business.
You don't like the couple. Fine. No one is forcing you to. You want to criticize the relationship. Fine too. What you just did though is a very asshole move of telling readers that they are to feel guilt and responsible for crimes in real life and excuse me but, fuck you. I am not more responsible for adults behaving badly than you are.
How sensitive, I'm not convinced you're actually an adult.
Regardless, you'll have to deal with the fact that romanticizing rape in fiction contributes to normalizing rape in real life. Murder is commonly punished, rape isn't because it's not taken seriously. Any work of fiction that doesn't take rape seriously contributes to rape culture. It's really that simple but again if you don't care it's your right. Just say "I don't care about rape culture" but don't whine in the comments that people are bullying you and being assholes because you're just enjoying a story.
"you consider the crime of rape worst than murder" please tell me where I said that. You don't have to make stuff up to prove whatever point you think you're making.
You dislike "double standards"? Well, by all means go to Saezeuru's page and call everyone out for being hypocritical. Who's stopping you? In the meantime people here will keep calling you out for normalizing rape.
Don't like? Don't read the comments.
I am an adult. I read fiction with a variety of crimes on it.
I ship some non normative relationships, I dislike others. No, never once I read a rape plot Yaoi couple and by the end of it I went... oh, I think rape is normal now.
I don't have to deal with the fact that romanticizing rape in ADULT fiction contributes to normalizing rape in real life because that is not true no matter how many time you repeat that as a 'fact' when in fact is just an opinion and a poorly proved one.
It is actually you who are whining in here about readers enjoying a fictional couple that you don't. Then in a projecting way say that you are the victim because you can't post your shit dissing people without getting hit for it. In a story that you choose to read even though you knew you would be uncomfortable with it.
You post a whole fucking rant on why rape is not acceptable to you in fiction ( in comparison to someone challenging why any other criminal/crime is okay not to be the line).
I won't be on Saezuru page one because I love that story too. I love Yashiro and because the hypocrisy here is not that people enjoy that story and root for also a controversial character that in real life should no be glorified .... because I see only YOU having this double standard.
I am not normalizing rape no more that any of the readers of Saezuru are normalizing Yakuza crimes. I am not normalizing rape no more that readers who enjoy adult incest stories are normalizing incest.
Get this through your infertile, ridiculous, childish mind.
You couldn't and will never be able to answer the questions that was posted to you: how a rape plot story would change your mind that rape is normal?
Who do you think is reading POTN and going : I think rape is normal now.
You can't make up facts just because you think it's cool and intellectual going around repeating this mantra 'Yaoi rape plot normalizes rape'.
Answer: normalizes for whom? YOU? You keep running away from this question.
Who do you think reads Yaoi rape plot and ends up believing rape is normal?
I do dislike double standards and hypocrisy and that is why my problem is not with any particular fandom. My problem is with readers like you who think they can make an argument that their particular moral standards are okay for some characters but not others. And then go on a crazy rant saying that readers in POTN are responsible for real life rapes.
Give me a break and grow up.
The only one ranting here is you and I'm definitely not going to read your whole essay. All I've done is explaining how the story trivializes rape and how saying you enjoy it mindlessly is supporting rape culture. I explained the difference between the treatment of rape and murder in real life. I also said that it's your right to not care. I'll keep it short because at this point, it's obvious that keeping the conversation going is only a waste of time.
I can't stop you from defending this story the same way you can't stop me and others from calling some readers out
Again, please explain to me this charge POTN is contributing to normalize rape in real life.
You do understand that in order for something wrong in fiction to be normalized in real life, you need to have minds that can changed after reading the mentioned fiction, right?
Are you worried about the minors reading this that may not understand that rape is wrong and then thinking that someone raping then is okay?
Or are you actually arguing that adults will read POTN and change their already formed moral values and think rape is nomal?
On the point of normalizing rape, please read my part 3. I am really curious how the crowd who are so very worried that Yaoi rape plots with a a very easy to recognize as wrong abuse like rape is a danger to change ones mind but I never ever see you guys trying to educate the young teens who consume stories like 19 Days and actually get to believe a cute boy pursuing his crush like He Tian does is the cutest thing.
I posted this question and nobody replied:
"If you are really concerned about saving people from the dangers of reading fiction who 'normalizes' bad behavior, park your social justice warrior van in the stories here geared up towards teens, minors and pre teens. You do not need to do much research to find shounei ai stories who portray abuse/bullying/stalking/unwanted and forceful sexual advances as something cute.
If you are really ready for this conversation about which stories in this site should be the aim of your outrage, have a honest answer to the following question:
Which of these following scenarios are more likely to convince their audience that what they are reading is normal:
= Yaoi rape plot who portray a blatant very clear case of abuse like rape and it's geared at adults
or
= shounei ai plot where bullying/controlling/sexual harassment is diluted in blurred lines and it's geared to young people who just now are entering their sexual lives?
Again, no matter how many rape plots an adult read in Yaoi, it is very unlikely this will end up making them believe rape is normal.
On the other hand, the vast majority of teenagers in abusive relationship don't start their toxic relationships with something as easy to distinguish as abuse as rape but they may very well find it very cute that a possessive guy stalks them, forces them to wear jewelry or pins them on the bed is the best boyfriend ever.
"
How is that you guys think that shaming adult people who are already formed and experienced in life is your purpose in order to help stop rape culture but you largely, completely ignore the stories that could actually be used as argument for grooming of the thing you most fear?
by the way, I have absolutely nothing against 19 Days. As an adult, I know what I am reading and I know that in real life a boy like He Tian is a creep who uses physical force and fear to win over his crush and Mo Guan Shan is just the character whose destiny is to fall in love with him instead of reporting him to school as bully and run away from ... but if I were the 'rape culture' warrior that you are, these stories would be the ones I would make it priority not adult fiction aimed at people who are very unlikely to start believing rape is normal just because they read it in POTN.
You really made your mark here fighting against rape culture. You’ve made a difference. Good job perv
You are not going to read my essay because you actually can't answer the questions I posted to you.
You keep vomiting a hypocrisy about how people reading rape plots are responsible for real life crimes while being unable to explain why any other crime in fiction can be considered by what they are .... just fiction that do not harm real people.
You certainly can't stop adult people from enjoying their fictional characters the way they choose to and I certainly can't stop you from spouting the idiotic charge that people reading POTN are guilt or responsible for real life rapes.
I can however call you out every time you spout such bullshit.
I am not responsible for people behaving badly in real life anymore that you are. Give yourself a golden sticker though for trying it.
Again, this story trivializes rape in the same way other stories trivialize incest, murder, etc but I trust you are an adult that is intelligent enough to make a distinction between right or wrong in real life even though fiction may 'trivialize' a particular crime.
I have to block you now because in order to keep an argument you need the people to be able to at least keep a level of honesty.
when asked to explain how an adult can read POTN and get out of it that rape is normal --- what is the whole premise of what you are accusing everybody here --- you fail to do.
You are the one who chose to read a story that would make you uncomfortable. You are not 'calling' anyone out with your shaming. You are behaving like a child who seems confused with the basic notion that fiction is not to be taken as real life.
When you start trying to justify your shaming posts with saying that people reading fictional characters are actually responsible for people in real life committing crimes you are being ridiculous.
On the other hand, it is start to worry me that you actually believe an adult reading POTN can just start believing that rape is normal. If you ever feel this inclination, please seek support.
Remember: if a man ever touches you against your will in real life, this is wrong. It doesn't need to be rape. No matter if you read that they fall in love in a fictional Yaoi rape plot.
I'm saying that just in case you start believing it is normal after reading the stories here -- what apparently you seems to believe that is how it goes.
Man, this is exhausting.
It had been a long time since I didn't see one of those who actually pull the 'you are responsible for real life rapes' if you are shipping this couple. Wow.
Somehow in her mind she can read this and not be influenced into believing rape is normal but everyone else is a gullible naive lamb who after reading POTN will change their whole moral set and start believing rape is normal.
The proof of that is that they ship Seungho x Nakyum, two fictional characters in an Yaoi Plot.
Somehow the same logic doesn't apply to any other bad behavior these people may be reading and therefore makes sense to go around saying that readers of POTN contributes to 'rape culture' but if they read any tolerate any other form of crime that does not contribute to any other normalization.
Sounds legit!
I think they really believe that.
Imagine thinking that you are really fighting 'rape culture' if you hang around Yaoi rape plot fictional stories shaming their adult audience and lecturing them how to read their stories and blaming them for real life crimes.
Imagine believing that because you think they will start believing rape is normal if they ship this couple.
Number of real victims saved if these people could censor Yaoi Rape Plot out of existence: 0
Number of real rapists or any other criminals stopped if they couldn't read this or any other fiction: 0
I wish I could feel accomplished with this little.
she really wrote a dissertation on a yaoi site but i am HERE for it
I see lots of readers concluding that Nakyum is still in love with Inhun because of that scene.
However, look at the sequence of the scene.
Seungho hugs Nakyum and he thinks : 'It's warm'. Obviously he is not talking about being hot, he is talking about comfort, care, feeling of being cherished.
What does this say to us? That Nakyum is feeling good being hugged by Seungho. Either he feels protected or he feels Seungho care despite his asshole attitude.
Then Nakyum recalls Inhun embrace. He is not remembering Inhun because he misses him, he is comparing the feeling of the embrace by instinct.
Nakyum is starting to compare his feelings for Seungho with what he felt for Inhun and vice versa.
The key to this scene is Nakyum thinking that Seungho's embrace feels 'warm' because that means care.
We know Inhun never felt anything for Nakyum, attraction or care so his embrace would probably not feel warm to Nakyum.
The scene is there to show Nakyum comparing warmth from Seungho's hug to the coldness/false sense of care from Inhun's embrace.
I love this comment omg. I am reading a lot of comments saying things and it's making me even more sad, but this comment actually made me breathe somehow. Thank you
PSA: This is a rape plot in an YAOI genre.
YAOI is not exactly the place to come read about wholesome, healthy, or even realistic gay relationships. There are options if the readers lost in here still whining about this story being about a highly dysfunctional relationship that it started as RAPE plot even though we are on season 2. No one can claim to be here by mistake.
Seungho is not a good guy. He will get the love in the end. This is not a social justice story where Nakyum will start a #MeToo movement in the Korea Feudal era.
The bad guy will get the sweet uke in the end. They will fall in love. There will be still a lot of abuse. Yes, this is a story for adults that can tell the difference and also understand the audience.
Hang around here just to mention for the millionnnneeeeeemimo time about how you find it wrong to ship them, how the relationship is unhealthy, how wrong is this like you are saying something that nobody ever thought about it is not cute anymore. It's boring and annoying because this is supposed to be an adult room where people can read the room.
If you wish wholesome, health relationships, there is 'Here U Are', 'Cherry Blossoms', etc. plenty of stories that fit your taste.
It just amazes me that adult people CHOOSE to read a rape plot ( that we all know how it goes) and then remain chapter after chapter whining that the story is doing exactly what was the premise of it.
No, this is not 'healthy' and will never be. So the fucking what? It's fiction. Most people are into for the ride. If they wanted healthy, they would be reading the cute fluffy stories around. Do you see anyone hanging around the cutesy yaoi stories whining that they started reading it and they want it to be toxic? No. Because that's the whole fucking point of making choices from a menu of stories. Incest, killers, bullies to protector, shotacon, bestiality, omegaverse .... pick your choice and if you pick something you don't like it but insist on reading it just because it's popular and every one else is doing it, then it's your fucking problem that the story is not to you liking. It's not everybody else's problem to have to hear for the million time your preaching nagging that the story is a rape plot. (That you CHOOSE to read it).
How could Seungho not fall in love with Nakyum?
It is not only that Nakyum is the cutest thing he ever lay his eyes on but also because Nakyum totally disarms him from his cynic view of people.
Look at the people and society that Seungho is used to and how his main way to deal with people is to assume no one is to be trusted and deserves contempt.
- He mocks the high society he lives in and enjoys to provoke them with his libertine behavior; This is clear in the scene where he tells Jihwa that, since the lords are all already expecting the worst of him, he better not disappoint.
- He clearly doesn't trust his circle of fuck buddies and he doesn't let them get personal (turns out he isn't wrong. Jihwa had a spy on his house. The other one started a plot with an assassin).
- He obviously has a hatred for his father and it becomes more clear that it has to do with his taste for men.
- Inhun never had a chance to fool Seungho. From the very first meeting Seungho could read Inhun as just another fraud, someone who pay lip service to nobles and driven by selfish ambition. As his feelings for NK grew, it must have been frustrating to watch NK idolizing Inhun as someone who deserved deference.
Seungho survives in his society by outsmarting and being defensive and on guard against betrayal and falsehood all around him. His first assumption when NK reached out on his own to be intimate was that he was doing it under Inhun's orders.
Nakyum, with his pure heart and honesty is something Seungho isn't prepared for. He gets disarmed by Nakyum's lack of malice. Neither is the fact that someone so clearly in disadvantage keeps challenging him. One of the first scenes when we see Seungho is getting intrigued by Nakyum is when he thinks how Nakyum had the courage to stand up to him even though he looked so afraid. (The chapter where Nakyum defended Inhun's against Seungho's mockery of his poem as plagiarism).
Last, just like Seungho only knows one kind of people his whole life --- the kind that cannot be trusted --- Seungho only know one way to treat people, a range between sarcasm and violence but we see Seungho flustered that his method doesn't work with Nakyum. He clearly wants to please Nakyum and get from him the affection he gives to Inhun but all he has done by force and intimidation only had the opposite effect.
Nakyum is the first person who makes Seungho feel bad for something he did. Seungho killed one person, knifed other, he humiliated Jihwa and the other guy before him, and we don't see him flinch or getting one second bothered by any of it. However, every time he caused harm to Nakyum, we saw him flustered and on edge. Nakyum forces Seungho to feel remorse, guilt when before there was nothing.
To me, this is a tale of two virgins and get their virginity lost to one another. Nakyum was literally virgin of lust and sex but Seungho is virgin of humanity and the feeling of caring for someone and Nakyum is his first.
So, the path for Nakyum to fall in love with Seungho may be more complicated but Seungho, for all the might power he has, never stood a chance the minute Nakyum walked into his life.
Omg, I love you. This is what I’ve been trying to say, and you put it perfectly. I’ve seen a lot of people hating on Nk because he’s too “weak” and too “vanilla” for SH to be so obsessed with him, and that realistically SH would get bored of him quick and throw him away like a used toy yada yada. They obviously lack judgement and analytical abilities.
I never thought there is someone who made a detail essay (￣∇￣"), this is an excellent observation my learned sir (≧∀≦)
This is a really good analysis. Thanks for commenting! :))
I've read a lot of comments here and this is by far my favorite <3
i think they complement each other.....
THIS. This is the best comment.
This is the best thing I've read the whole week!
Every single character in is hot in this story and when Seungwon showed up it was all the rage... so maybe that's why the new guy just looks average now, lol. He even looks like a rough up Seungho.
I may be against the flow but I do hope this is not every male character that shows up turns gay. I hope the assassin just do his thing and gets killed because if he tries to kill Nakyum, that's what he's gonna get.
yeah a rough up Seungho best description to fit him ╮(￣▽￣)╭
Yea not everyone has to be shipped with someone, although I wouldn't mind seungwon with jihwa
Word. The story is already the right amount of trope. Please author save us from the Oprah version of 'everyone gets a car' where every man in the story gets paired with a gay lover.
That being said, that's Yaoi for you. A male character makes one single appearance that is not even remotely romantic and our fujoshi mind already come up with ten theories of shipping... Seungwon was supposed to steal Nakyum's heart or seduce Inhun... now the assassin apparently is supposed to kidnap Nakyum and make him fell in love with him, if he doesn't bed Jihwa first, lol.
About the drawing, it seems every artist has the same behavior... just like when you are reading a story and you recognize the author by the seme or uke. The new guy looks indeed like Seungho's homeless brother with slight rounder lines.
Hahaha so true...
yep.
I actually think new guy is hotter, but that's personal preference lol
Yea that may be true, seungwon is more on the cute, debonair, handsome.
Where new guy is attractive in a rugged, masculine way.
Yea it's whatever your prefences are, MINE is SEUNGHO!
That front cover wouldn't be the same with any other character but Seungho. His lines are perfection.
he is a little to perfect looking
Don't hate me I love his looks but I'm all in it for his personality too
same (๑•ㅂ•)و✧ i dont know what is wrong with me but i probably am a masochist (￣∇￣")
Seungho's expressions throughout this chapter shows how much work the author puts on this character.
This is one of my favorite chapters. We don't get to see what he is thinking but we can see Seungho is going through a rollercoaster of emotions... from anger, humiliation, heartbreak ( his face when he sees NK reaction to what Min is saying ...) then his realization 'what am I doing?' ... the 'get out' and the face he does when Min is at the door ... the veins of his neck, the tense jaw ... if Min had dared to mock him again and in front of the other men, Seungho probably would have beat him to death this time.
I like Nakyum's character but Seungho is just where the author's talent for telling a story shines. The author could have gone the easier way to please the impatient or the queasy readers but then Seungho wouldn't be the challenge that he is.
Sorry, meant to like!(〜￣△￣)〜