Fabytvxq's Topics (224)

I feel you but you should try to think that its only a piece of paper, he will always be their son, all the memories, love, these things still remain the only thing its gone is the piece of paper wich used to say he was their son. In other words its not "they lovED him like he was their own child" they still do, and Touma also still love them as a son. Right?

Hm it was sad, but... you're right :) they are still a family

Ikr... I wanna see her girlfriend or wife... wait.. can she be with an omega male and get him pregnant? Does she had a dick!?

now we're asking the real questions: are all alpha women futanari??
But seriously I wanna see her S/O so bad my gay heart can't take it like IS IT AN ADORABLE OMEGA GIRL?? CAN I STAN A LESBIAN POWER COUPLE?? IS A CUTE OMEGA GUY?? CAN I STAN A POWERFUL WOMAN AND SOFT MAN RELATIONSHIP DYNAMIC THAT SUBVERTS GENDER ROLES?? WORLD WANTS TO KNOW FARGO!!!

Darmit! Now I hame to leave her a question like that xD

I'm not sure if women in omegaverse have a dick like male alphas lol I don't know any couple with an alpha woman and an omega man, so I'm curious...

"Long name starting with a K destiny" had two female characters (A&O) have a child together. Lesbian power couple, where the "tiny uke, dominant seme' thing isn't replicated in their drawing or relationship would be new. The last thing this needs is another doormat, child looking character and rape is okay cause they are an Alpha though. Why not want for a more equal pairing?

Because unlike you, I don't mind tiny, submissive men because gender is a lie and males don't always need to be dominant and large, feminine characteristics don't translate to 'looking like a child' to me because I don't have mysoginistic views that infintalize women, and I didn't once mention rape in my reply! So, unlike you, I'm not projecting my own problematic views onto others, and am capable of enjoying a fictional story for it's good points!
ANYWAYS!
I wanna see her S/O so bad my gay heart can't take it like IS IT AN ADORABLE OMEGA GIRL?? CAN I STAN A LESBIAN POWER COUPLE?? IS A CUTE OMEGA GUY?? CAN I STAN A POWERFUL WOMAN AND SOFT MAN RELATIONSHIP DYNAMIC THAT SUBVERTS GENDER ROLES?? THE WORLD WANTS TO KNOW FARGO!!!

Excuse me? Pick your battles with all of the yaoi authors & editors who project a rather sexist view of heteronornative relationships onto two adult men. The stereotypical blushing, crying, naive, forgiving tiny "uke" is a replication of a common Shoujo character, who is swept away by her taller, more prosperous, confident man. Hye-sung's appearance has nothing to do with him "looking feminine" but the author has made a deliberate decision to make him a lot smaller, "cuter" and yes child-like, compare to how he was presented originally in "If you hate me that much" where he looked almost the same as Heeso does now. Blame yaoi authors for peddling the uke and seme stereotype, where the uke character must always apparently be physically weaker, shorter and have submissive characteristics. A male character can still "subvert gender roles" whilst being drawn as an adult and not being a stereotypical "uke". Having confident female characters doesn't mean that their partner should have to be subservient.

Well I, for one, am excited men are finally allowed to cry, forgive, be tiny, and be naive in fiction, as I am certainly tired of the never apologizing, never crying, huge, all-knowing men who don’t need to learn anything and don’t have feelings! And I have no problem with Hye-Sung’s design as there’s nothing wrong with a man being small, cute, and childlike because, again, the fact he shouldn’t be designed the way he is is deeply entrenched in gender stereotypes of what a man is/should be! Not to mention claiming the kind of relationship they have as being heteronormative is incredibly misogynistic because you’re claiming the blushing, crying, naive, forgiving, tiny woman who is penetrated and the prosperous, confident man who does the penetrating is the hetero norm which, as an incredibly dominant, confident, prosperous woman who’s attracted to soft, shy, small, men and prefers pegging, I can assure you that is very much not the case! I have no intentions of blaming yaoi authors because, as one of the very few genres by women for women catering solely to women’s tastes which gives men one big fuck you, yaoi is a wonderful genre and I will push back against society’s hate on it with all my might because I refuse to let the patriarchy squash it! And I don’t particularly care if the omega male partner to this beautiful alpha sister is subservient or not, all I said was I wanted him to be soft, and it’s quite fascinating you conflate the two, almost like you think a man being soft and vulnerable is equivalent to him being subservient to a woman! Now if you’ll kindly take your misogynistic, patriarchal endorsement of toxic masculinity and go jack off to your own self-righteousness, thereby leaving us in peace to enjoy this lovely manwha, it would be much appreciated!ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~

Once again, excuse me? Maybe you are coming from a more conservative environment where there is greater emphasis on binary gender norms, but a lot us aren't. A character can still be "sensitive" etc without conforming to the riduculous yaoi stereotype of an uke, which is hardly a realistic or healthy depiction. A passive, subservient, child-like character are not exactly progressive characteristics. This is why a lot of people are frustrated by the editing decision, Ji-won could still have been a physically strong, tall character, with his troubled background but not the "seme" who sexually assaults.

You're not excused! Excellent way of missing all my points and grasping at straws, though! I come from a very liberal environment, I'm afraid, so that point falls flat, and as much as I hate to break it to you, I never used the words passive or subservient so you are once again projecting, and there's nothing wrong with child-like characters, so I'm not sure where that's coming from! I have no idea how Ji-won came into this conversation but again, I'm not making any statements on his actions in my reply to this post! It's very clear you're not hearing me and are just going to keep walking in circles, though, so I'm just going to stop engaging, and end this with one last point:

I wanna see her S/O so bad my gay heart can't take it like IS IT AN ADORABLE OMEGA GIRL?? CAN I STAN A LESBIAN POWER COUPLE?? IS A CUTE OMEGA GUY?? CAN I STAN A POWERFUL WOMAN AND SOFT MAN RELATIONSHIP DYNAMIC THAT SUBVERTS GENDER ROLES?? THE WORLD WANTS TO KNOW FARGO!!!

What exactly would make a character "soft"? Guessing this means they have to be physically weaker, smaller, younger, less muscley, chubby even? That they can't be dominant or confident in other aspects of their life, but their entire personality and appearance has to be "soft" demure, non-threatening? Why can't someone like Hee-soo be "soft", why couldn't Hye-sung's original presentation be "soft"? Why can't Ji-won from BJ Alex be "soft" without changing his looks like the editor suggested, can a tall strong man not be "soft"?

Yea yea! I was so confused everytime i found the parents are alpha woman n omega woman having children. How they manage to get one pregnant.

And that would be intersting to see reverse role in this ar story. Woman impregnate the man... ╮(￣▽￣)╭

me, chanting in the background: FUTANARI FUTANARI FUTANARI

Haha i don't really know this means till i search for it (●'◡'●)ﾉ

Kashikomarimashita Destiny has Alpha women getting fellow women and also men pregnant.

Apparently intersex or a transwoman who hasn't had genital surgery, seems more like a hentai thing though.

Thanks for explaination. And about kashikomarimashita, i forget that manga have this case. Lol i'll check again later ;)

it's a herm thing not trans, so she's got a peen, sometimes balls, and a vag, all fully functional
Which I, for one, think goes unappreciated in A/B/O so looking at u Fargo

*hermaphrodite

Sex Pistols had an alpha female get 1 woman and 2 men preggers.

The current term is intersex, also the the futari thing you linked seems to be more of a hentai kink than in any way a realistic depiction of intersexuality, hence such appears more like a transwoman who hasn't received gental surgery. You could argue that both intersexuality and transgenderism aren't sympathetically or really portrayed at all in most "non fetish" manga, but these are gender issues, that are different to LGB. Not to be too graphic, but Alpha women in omegaverse impregnate others as explained in that Destiny manga linked.

Oh wow, Clouds actually managed to piss off a fellow feminist. @Izzy, the reason you find them annoying is most likely because, while you're a feminist, Clouds is an intolerant radical feminist. The conversational skills you just witnessed from them are the norm.

If you say so lol. The point was more about the yaoi stereotyping where a person's behaviour has to be mirrored in their appearance. A character who is sensitive, timid, or hey ho the receiver in sex, has to be physically "softer" or smaller than their counterpart. This seems like a rather simplistic, if not dated view, a bit like how "glasses characters" are usually portrayed as being academic. Youredthiswrong, you seem to have a bee in your bonnet about "feminists" and use such as a slur, even when such a topic has little relevance to the comic. Yaoi especially does have a lack of good portrayals of women (usually such characters are rivals who fail to believe a character is gay, ex girlfriends/wives, evil, evil mother, evil grandmother, evil sister, a meddler, a fujoshi etc) so relying on yaoi uke and seme stereotyoes which are problematic enough and portraying this to female characters is hardly ideal. In this webtoon's earlier series, the author highlighted the issue of this, when Hye-sung who was previously a 'top" was demeaned by Dojin due to his size, and thus became regulated into the "tiny uke" he is in this one.

In intersexuality neither organ is fully formed/functional, as it is a genetic mutation resulting in deformity, and transgender women don't have vaginas and penises, so alpha females are in neither category. Futanari is the closest term I knew for the most common headcanons I've seen in various A/B/O I've read. I agree its origins are weird, to say the least, but there isn't really anything closer I know of, and it sounds like you don't have one either? I read destiny a long time ago so I don't even remember there being a F/F couple, you'd have to give me the specific chapter.

Clouds, nope, just bitchy radical feminists who think they're educating everyone they speak to and refuse to even actually absorb what the other person is saying.

(pressed post by accident before I was done, lol). Essentially, because A/B/O is fiction/fantasy, alpha female don't correspond to a sex that exists in reality, just like omega males don't either, so they don't translate to any current term we have. So they're not intersex/hermaphrodites or trans people, they're this weird other category that just exists in fiction and we haven't really come up with a name for yet. Japan technically has for one of them, and though it originates in sexual origins (Which there's nothing wrong with, it just causes whatever was created to have significant stigma surrounding it, like pole dancing for example), it fits the bill for alpha females, so I think it makes sense to use it.

Honestly, i had gotten over our interactions, but seeing you do the same exact thing here made me want to say something...

@youraed don't engage, I only did so because this was a fun thread about OP screaming in gay over the sister, which my bi ass wanted to have a good time joining in on, and Cloud wanted to act like we were doing something wrong. I don't normally care about people who feel entitled to the views Cloud expressed, but when they try to use them to ruin people just enjoying themselves, I get pissed. But now I just feel is bad we've taken over this thread with an argument, when OP was just making a (relatable) comment about the alpha woman being cute af. I think I've said my piece already anyway, so I I'll take my leave.
That said, at this point all I want is futanari alpha sister and her soft, pregnant omega partner, male or female, and my life will be complete ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~
See you all in January, and sorry again to @fabytvxq!

You're right, i've said about everything i wanted as well. Bye clouds O/

Hermaphroditism is an umbrella term for many medical conditions from a sexual development spectrum and I can assure you there's none that would give a phenotype you described (that is, a normally looking fertile woman but with working balls and penis).

They said "hermaphrodite", not "hermaphroditism".

Hermaphrodite: a person or animal having both male and female sex organs or other sexual characteristics, either abnormally or (in the case of some organisms) as the natural condition.


In the case being discussed here, alpha women would indeed be hermaphrodites as the general rule (outside of special cases where the author decides to tweek things a bit) is that the alpha women look like women and naturally have a penis and balls. You can argue that it doesn't medically make sense for the sex organs to function normally, but the definition doesn't mention functionality and these women are hermaphrodites by definition. As far as the medical implications, this is fiction, you're supposed to just accept that it works somehow. Honestly, functionality is besides the point here as it isn't relevant to labelling something a Hermaphrodite.

Hermaphroditism is a name for a phenomenon of existence of hermaprodites...

As a med student I have yet to see or read a case of a perfectly fertile hermaphrodite. That aside, people with sexual development disorders like true hermaphroditism don't look like your regular person from a street due to problems with hormone levels. Hermaproditism is considered a disorder in the human medicine (according to ICD 11) and these people can't produce offspring, it just doesn't happen. You are free to go and read more about it in ICD 11 manual.

True hermaphrodites, although they are equipped with both tissues, testicular and ovarian, don't have perfectly functioning gonads. In most cases they are completely infertile and in the rest they have just one functioning set of gonads while the other one remains non functional.

You can't call women from this comic hermaphrodites for two major reasons:
1. They are perfectly normal, unlike hermaphrodites who according to a current medical knowledge have a genetic disorder.
2. They have a normal phenotype and are healthy, unlike hermaphrodites who struggle with health issues.

I believe i already clarified that the definition doesn't include the fubctionality of the sex organs, they just have to have them. So you trying to argue that they aren't hermaphrodites because their sex organs couldn't possibly work how they do isn't a valid argument.

1. You could argue that being an alpha is a genetic disorder.

2. The definition of hermaphrodite is very broad, it doesn't mention that the hermaphrodite has to be unhealthy, it just mentions that the person or animal has to have sex organs of both sexes, it doesn't even say the organs have to work. Functionality and health aren't a factor when labelling a hermaphrodite, bad functionality and bad health are traits common IN hermaphrodites.

Basically, you're arguing that they aren't hermaphrodites as if being a hermaphrodite is defined by bad health and lack of sexual functionality, but being a hermaphrodite is defined by being a person or animal that has both male and female sex organs. Alpha females have a penis and balls. They're hermaphrodites.

Not according to a medical knowledge. I don't know where you took that definition from, but according to medical manuals used by professionals such as ICD 11 hermaphroditism in humans is a developmental disorder. Nobody in this manhwa has a disorder though, alpha women and omega men are like a completely seperate sex and they have lives like any other people. So they can't possibly be considered hermaphrodites.


Also (I'm saying this on side), you can't be "female" if you have balls. Female literally means having ovarian tissue and XX chromosomes, it strictly refers to biology of a person. You can funtion socially as a woman, be seen as a woman and think of yourself as a woman, but if you have balls then biologically you are male (or intersex if you have two sets of gonads). Think of a trangender people, e.g. trans men. Biologically they are female, their bodies are made to produce egg cells and female hormones. But thanks to hormone therapy and surgeries they start looking like men and functioning as men. Everybody perceives them as men --> however biology-wise their bodies are still female.

So something like "female with balls and vagina" makes no sense, because such a person is not female.

You're actually wrong, because definition of hermaphroditism IN HUMANS is different from a definition of hermaphroditism in animals. In animals, in most cases, it's natural. In humans, hermaphroditism strictly means a disorder and you can easily look it up in ICD.
There is no hermaphrodite that would be fully fertile.

Yep, not sure why the user brought up thee futanari thing and then related it to "hermaphroditism" as it isn't, and that term is considered to be generally offensive and outdated when related to intersexuality. Having never heard of it, it does seem to be a Hentai thing, where a woman with a functioning reproductive system... also has a penis. This isn't what interexuality is, so it is a fictional idealisation, which presumably is aimed at a mostly male audience (the whole submissive waifu chick with a dick shebang). Having this futari thing in a mainstream manga, and relating it to a character that is considered a strong, cool woman seems a bit regressive, as if she will be reduced down to the "surprise!!!" she has in her trousers. The outlines how Alpha women impregnate others have already been outlines, their clitoris swells. There is no need to start calling said women men, saying they have dicks, just like this webtoon, and others in this genre have drew criticism from an international audience for calling Omega or Beta men, wife and mother as opposed to husband and father.

I posted the definition of hermaphrodite, it clarifies both humans AND animals, you don't have an argument here.

Clouds, to be completely honest with you, I really am not fond of that whole omegaverse thing. All it does is maintain those stereotypes about men and women through projecting traditional gender roles on gays. When I saw Dojin refer to Hyesyng as mum, I felt highly repulsed and disgusted. I won't say much about that bizarre trend of always making a bottom partner small and feminine and a top partner tall and manly, because it's probably already obvious what I think about it as a man myself. The only reason why I still am torturing myself and haven't given up on this manhwa is because I really liked Hyesung and Dojin from If You Hate Me So.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/hermaphrodite

Dictionary.com is as official as it gets. You're probably getting confused BECAUSE you're looking at medical information. As i've pointed out multiple times, medical information isn't relevant in deciding whether or not something is a hermaphrodite. What is relevant is whether or not it has sex organs from both sexes. Not debateable, a fact. It's like arguing a three armed human isn't human because "humans have two arms". I used "female" because that is what the manga describes them as. Probably because they look like females. You're looking too far into things and the comparisons you're making frankly aren't relevant.

Anyways, this isn't a matter of debate, you're simply wrong by definition. I posted the definition for you and anyone else to see. I'm going now.

I do have to agree. It seems that some authors, like this one portay Omegas as primarily only being good for sex and providing babies, and are submissive in every way to Alphas. Making Omega characters physically small like this, instead of an in any way accurate representation of a young man, then calling Omegas "mum" or "wife" isn't the best, and eems to play on that rather sexist stereotype that women have to be frail, dainty, serve men, and their only roles in life are wife or mother. Because the men can now fulfill these roles, the women get usually forgotten about, as they are no longer needed for sex or breeding to be harsh. There are some okay omegaverse out there, where there isn't so much power imbalance, lack of female representation, and male characters are still called dad, boyfriend, husband, but these do seem to be in the minority. I just hate hiw this author has used the omegaverse genre to justify rape, and draw such a childish interpretation of a character, which was a deliberate choice seeing as he contrasts quite a bit from the Hye-sung originally in "If you hate me". No other author I've read has normalied rape like this, who is trying to say that it's acceptable, then had this comic attitude to how the victim reacts, and portrays rape scenes as smut.

Medicibe Isn't to decide who is a hermaphrodite, I think I'm done xD

@youreadthiswrong, the point is such a term is now considered offensive in relation to people, the preferred and used term is intersex which comes under Disorders of sexual development. The futanari interpretation is entirely fictional and not a representation of intersexuality, it is a porn fetish, nothing more, where sexualised submissive female characters have a penis. Currently people who have such a diagnosis are assigned a male or female gender at birth, but there is growing awareness and support to have intersex as an identity. You can't relate modern medical knowledge to mythology or hentai, seriously.

Unfortunately I also have to agree with you on this matter. But to make it sound rational, I'd say the reason behind it is this type of comics is meant to be catered to young girls who for some reason find this stuff arousing or interesting enough to give it a try (I mean, there's a similar thing going on with yuri --> most of them are targeted at straight guys with... rather weird fantasies). With that being said, If You Hate Me So, when compared to Love is an Ilussion, gives off so different vibes that at first I actually thought that the latter was drawn as doujinshi by some perverted fan of the original series. As soon as I discovered it's the same author, I was dumbfounded. Dojin and Hyesung's story really caught my interest and made me feel invested in what will happen next that all I can do now is suck it up and just be fine with what we have. But really... Fargo, why? Just why?

Yep, the whole rape fetish, "dubious consent is sexy" and submissive & dominant appearances and behaviours is a bit odd to say the least. Having read the first series, there were some major faults in relation to such, but I'd hoped to see the author progress rather than just amplify the faults of the first series. The interpretations of Dojin and Hye-sung originally, were marginally better as they both were portrayed as being pricks tbh, whereas in this one, Dojin is the stereotypical "rapist good guy saviour". Their ages were a bit older, and their backstories and professions were a bit less melodramatic. The author in this series, adding in a cute baby to serve as a distraction from all of the rape romantisisation was poor show, then "it's not rape it's omegaverse" response, goodness sake.

Clouds, you're the one talking about that. Atsushi and i were discussing what makes a hermaphrodite. We simply weren't talking about whether or not being called a hermaphrodite offends anyone, not sure what you're talking about. Anyways, a simple google search shows this: http://www.isna.org/faq/hermaphrodite, which says hermaphrodites and intersex aren't the same thing as hermaphrodites are fully both male and female. A hermaphrodite could be used to describe the alpha females, which is why i argued with Atsushi, intersex would be used to describe a more realistic case. Something like what Atsushi mentioned. They were getting the 2 mixed up.

The point is such a term has been abandoned, as it is viewed as offensive and there is greater awareness of the variety of sexual development disorders. Why keep using what is a slur and some hentai fetish? The outlines for how Alpha females impregnate others have already been given, and they aren't the "chick with a dick" futanari's. Hermaphrodite's don't exist, we have modern language and modern scientific awareness. Just stop please.

I didn't, i believe it was Izzy who first said Hermaphrodites. And rightfully so, we're discussing fictional beings that are both fully male and female, a medical impossibility irl. We aren't discussing reality, we're specifically talking about hermaphrodites, not intersex people.

Have you considered that the reason calling an intersex person a hermaphrodite is offensive is because they aren't hermaphrodites? They are by definition, but the definition is based on a myth involving a being both male and female with fully functioning bodies, hence intersex being the right term irl as that isn't what reality is.

Hermaphroditism actually falls under a category of intersexuality as a sex development disorder.

In medicine this term is still used though (like in true hermaphroditism, although it's considered a bit dated by some), I wouldn't call it a slur in such specific settings.

http://apps.who.int/classifications/icd10/browse/2016/en#/Q56.0
^2016 version

Doesn't change a fact that alfa "females" from this manhwa are NOT hermaphrodites because they don't reflect the image of what this disorder actually looks like.

The thing is, in humans hermaphrodites ARE NOT fully fertile by definition.

Okay, a couple things. First and foremost, there's nothing wrong with something originating in the sex industry, and the idea that something's 'fetishy' or 'wrong' because it does originate from there is social stigma that needs to stop. Pole dancing, for example, originated in the sex industry and has a lot of stigma surrounding it, when it's actually a difficult, complex and amazing dance form. Futanari is a fake term made to explain a fake sexual organ make-up, and I'm not knowledgeable enough about herm vs intersex to agree or disagree. @youraed stop arguing about this, it's a single term to explain a fictional phenomenon, it's not important, and you're just putting your foot in your mouth anyway.
Second, your obsession with uke=woman needs to stop. You continue to make this jump that the uke being frail/etc means there's subliminal messaging women must be frail/etc, but that assumption is based on your continuous connecting between women and submissive position in sex, as well as your preconceived notions of what it means to be a woman. This is internalized misogyny, and you need to stop projecting it onto fictional works and others, both of you.
Next, something I wasn't going to get into but whatever. Yaoi originated for women by women, not solely because sex between men is arousing for women who are attracted to men, but because the genre itself is empowering. You complain women are portrayed poorly, or not portrayed at all, but this is true for ALL MEDIA. The difference with the idea of male/male couples is the reader is no longer being told who they need to identify with, IT'S UP TO THEM. A female reader does not have to identify with the woman in the relationship, the media often forcing them into perfect, 2-D depictions with confining ideas of beauty, and a male reader does not have to identify with the man in the relationship, the media often forcing them into infallible, unfeeling, strict depictions of what masculinity looks like (which is exactly where toxic masculinity comes from). There are two men, rather than a man and a woman, and it's up to you. (The same can be said for yuri, though it hasn't caught out quite as much because, yes, a majority of the fanbase is straight women.)
Yaoi (and fanfiction, as there's many similarities, but I'll save that for a different rant) is also a place where women can freely express their sexuality, without the patriarchy dictating who they must be. You're a dominant woman? Fuck the patriarchy telling you you need to be weak, small, and passive all the time, identify with the seme, who's dominant, has agency, and chases after what they want without being judged or scolded. This is also why some men (queer and not queer) have come out of the woodwork admitting to liking yaoi too, because they can do the same. A submissive man? Fuck the patriarchy telling you that you need to be strong, dominant, and in control all the time! Identify with the uke, who's taken care of, protected, small, and vunerable, AND NO ONE JUDGES THEM FOR IT.
Omegaverse caters to a specific kink, as does 'dub-con,' which tend to have to do with BDSM-esque power fantasies, among other things. The omega in even less control than a normal person, the alpha in even more control, which caters to the dominant/submissive dynamic some people enjoy. In reality it would be a mess, but in fiction both the author and the reader are in control (the author in that they literally choose what happens, the reader in that if they don't like it they can always put it down and stop reading), so it's different. This is what fiction is often used for, catering to fantasies that would be horrible or impossible in real life, allowing the reader to temporarily live them, then coming back out into the real world and going about their business. Dojin is one of these fantasies. Image being poor, down on your luck, unable to return to your family, when a rich man sweeps you off your feet, and chases after you no matter how far your insecurities make you run, and loves you so unconditionally, he asks you to marry him even if his family doesn't approve. It's a nice fantasy, isn't it? Particularly for, yes, teenage girls, who are lost and going through a transition period where they're trying to figure out who they are and could use someone at their back 24/7, supporting them like that. In reality? Problematic, to say the least, leaving room for all kinds of terrible things, but in fiction, the reader is in control, can just close the webpage if they don't like what's going on even in the slightest, and these problems don't occur.
Yaoi (and fanfiction) are pushbacks against patriarchal views of gender stereotypes, essentially one big fuck you to the media, originating by women for women, and now some men are beginning to enjoy the implications too.
Are there problems in gay/bi men are used as a conduit for this pushback? Arguably yes, there are. There are downsides for getting them caught in this war against gender, including what you've mentioned above, where gender roles tend to be 'enforced' on gay couples as a side effect. But yaoi runs much deeper than you're giving it credit for, and the answer isn't as simple as you're suggesting. Giving the fictional couples both an equal role, as is the case in most gay couples in real life, essentially kills the movement yaoi is pushing forward, and I think that's just as problematic, if not more so, than portraying gay relationships in ways not necessarily indicative of real life.

I don't see how see how i'm "putting my foot in my mouth", everything i said about what makes a hermaphrodite is fact. Though i suppose you're right in that i've said everything i wanted to say on this matter as well. I don't have an opinion on the subject of heteronormativity as i feel it's a non-issue when applied to fiction. Who cares that ukes act "feminine"? I also don't have an opinion on intersex people being offended by being called hermaphrodites other than that i try not to call anyone something i know offends them, the thing is, we weren't talking about irl intersex people, we were talking about fictional hermaphrodites with somehow fully working bodies. They obviously aren't an accurate depiction of intersex people, i'd argue that they're clearly just that way to fit the lore and take inspiration from the mythical hermaphrodites rather than irl intersex people as they are fully male and female. Atsushi is talking about medical lingo, not the dictionary definition or the mythical roots it comes from.

As a side note, I still don't know what you're basing your idea on for how alpha females impregnate others @Clouds. Is it that one manga you read, the Destiny one? You still haven't given the chapter it was explained, or given more examples than just the one manga.

You could just search yourself, but it was on chapter 2 of Sachimo's manga. It's been the only omegaverse I've seen anyway that has women get men and women pregnant. Omega men don't walk about looking like women, they don't have a narrow waist, hips, breasts, and give birth anally. Omega women aren't going to walk about like that futanari you linked.

* Alpha women (not omega women), sorry.

I'm pretty sure that alpha women being able to impregnate is an all omegaverse thing, they usually just say "alphas can impregnate", they don't specify "male alphas". It's just that we're reading yaoi, so the focus is on the males.

I'm still not seeing it? Volume 1 chapter 2 of K Destiny? What page is it?

Also, I never linked to a futanari? Could you show me the link you mean? I'm actually not sure what you mean past the second sentence in your reply, if you could clarify? I do know that in this manwha (Love is an Illusion) the entrance to womb was in his asshole, which the translation team changed to 'prostate' in the first sex scene chapter, something I was kinda mad about because they killed some of the worldbuilding. So unless he had a C-section he did give birth anally. If by 'walk about' you mean outwardly look like, futanari literally means outwardly female with fully functioning male + female reproductive organs, so there's no outward changes to appearance other than maybe a bulge in the crotch area in tight clothing, so they still 'walk about' looking like women. If that's not what you meant then I'm a little confused.

Also I'd like to add that omegaverse actually originated in western fanfiction, so that's where my knowledge of alpha females comes from. So I've seen far more than just 1 example of female alphas getting their mates pregnant, though never in manga/manwha. Maybe that's where some of your confusion is stemming from? If fanfiction isn't your cup of tea, the K Destiny may be your only example, and it doesn't sound like it's indicative of the most common 'theory,' though granted I haven't found the passage you're citing yet.
This is actually kind of fun, I like discussing worldbuilding with other people haha

Chapter 2 "How pregnancy works: Males have tubes connecting their anuses to their wombs. When stimulated the female clitoris would also become erect an expel semen" . Chapter 5 details an Alpha woman & Beta woman having a child (Miyauchi). etc There doesn't seem to be a lot of woman & woman or women getting men pregnant relationships in any of the omegaverse on this site. Haven't read any fanfiction, so only basing it on manga/manhwa, someone did mention that "Western" interpretations do mostly call men father and husband, which is good, whist manga/manhwa seem to be stuck with calling men mother and wife.

Ah okay, I was looking in the story itself for an actual example so I skipped the intro. I've heard that theory too, though it's not as prominent because the amount of tissue it would take to grow enough to penetrate their partner is way too much to be possible. I guess people consider it a more obvious plot hole than two functioning sexual organs, so they tend towards the latter. But it's fiction, so it's going to have parts that don't make sense, I guess the prevailing theory tends to just be the one that has the LEAST amount of stuff that doesn't make sense. That said, there's still variation on it in western media as well, it's a fictional universe so each author has their own interpretation they use, Destiny being one of them and LiaI being another. The majority of the fanbase is straight women, so they focus on M/M relationship, which is fine, but as a bi woman I'm all for the F/F relationships, and I'd read a yuri omegaverse in a heartbeat.
I'm sort of indifferent on the mother vs father and husband vs wife thing, but I definitely understand people who get annoyed by it. It's better in western media, for certain, but the west is also further ahead when it comes to gender/sexuality, so it's understandable.

It would be nice to see more female characters in yaoi that aren't subjected to the rather poor tropes mentioned, or portrayed as being a female version of the uke and seme thing. A manhwa author that does have good depictions of women, who aren't just side character, wives, mothers, nuisances and vary in age and professions is the creator of Momentum and Wolf in the house. Each to their own, but it does get a bit tedious how dated some authors come off by referring to men as wives and mothers because they are gay, as well as rape being romantisised. In this manghwa I think there was only one sex scene which was consensual yet the webtoon is classed as being fluffy and comedic.

manghwa lol, excuse the spelling of manhwa, can't edit.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe that in all but the most fetishy yaoi, when the uke is referred to as the "wife" or "mother", aren't they usually meaning literally rather than "because he's gay"? Like, if the character carries and has the child, it is the mother and then if they get married the mother would be the wife. That seems like common sense.

Or do you mean in situations where the seme/uke already has a kid and the new partner is referred to as "mom"? Makes sense in those situations as well, the kid is used to calling the parent dad so the new partner would be mom. Kids are taught that it's normal to have a mom and dad because that is how the majority works. That is the norm. Society thinks "mom and dad" for the same reason. If individuals want to call themselves otherwise, but to ask the majority to change labels in these manga/manhwa makes no sense unless the characters are shown to be like minded to those individuals. Basically, if their characters want to both be called dad, the author will have written them that way. These ones who are okay with being called mom understand that they're called mom because the dad role is taken and the child understands "mom and dad".

I've already mentioned what I thought about the whole rape/dubcon in fiction thing, but yes, better depictions of women in all forms of media would be nice. It would certainly make more sense to call them husband/father since they're male, but it's such a small detail so it doesn't bother me a ton, I just shrug and keep reading.

Stop fighting.. we can make erotica anyway we see if you guys! It's our fantasy. RL issues don't exist, so we all can make up anything. Izzy like Shotas and Cloud likes Butches/Dykes ╮(￣▽￣)╭

Yeessss I would like her to step on me and I would gladly thank her like she is so gorgeous and so hot like she can be my mommy for eternity if I get a chance waaahhhh