My thing with Hayakawa was, was it necessary to childishly sexually assault Kon and then never apologize for it? Also the thing with Hayakawa that he pities himself in his apparent loneliness by seemingly donning a mask of happiness all the time and living a hedonistic lifestyle of sex and and temporary pleasure. But honestly just because someone didn't truthfully like you because of your privilege does not equate becoming a shell of a person. Children can be unbearably cruel at times, but sometimes I find it quite strange how the author exaggerates a character's past to the point that such a trauma would create the current self indulgent Hayakawa. Ultimately having experienced having a bad batch of friends created an individual to live with no morals? I truthfully can't sympathize with someone who rather than consider why this betrayal occurred due to factors out of his own control, his reaction is to assume every person he encounters from then on will only use him. It is ironic that Hayakawa instead uses others now whether through physical pleasure or by obtaining satisfaction in his unquestioned "likable" persona. But justifies this by stating these encounters are moments where he continues to be "used" for the benefit of others, when in actuality Hayakawa purposely facilitates or prevents these meetings with just a smile and few choice words. His behavior brings him no joy, and in fact he takes on a role of fake niceties that ultimately was the very cause of his current state of mistrust and unsettlement.
Perhaps this defense mechanism sprung in the face of adolescent questioning and uncertainty might be excusable, but really Hayakawa has created a purgatory of his own making through his self imposed ostracism from his peers.I'm hoping volume 2 has Hayakawa grow as an individual to not place his worth on the opinions of others and secondly properly apologize and make amends with Kon because he was simply a shit person in Volume 1.I'm just confused that no one has addressed this and are in more in favor of Kon and Hayakawa having sex more than anything else. There is a lot of depth to this story so far and of course there's an entire volume to continue to explore both Hayakawa and Kon's respective personalities into adulthood.
Seems interesting. But is what i with the trend of sickly characters just being absolute pieces of shit to everyone around them. You're dying so what, everyone dies eventually doesn't give you a right to be a complete asshole.
I'm not saying it's right for them to be jerks to everyone around them, but they're probably not prepared to die yet, and they're angry that they can't control their fate. It's kinda like the stages of grief except they're stuck on the anger part and haven't moved to acceptance yet. In addition to that, they probably don't want to show vulnerability and show the people around them that they're actually scared of dying since, like you said, everybody dies anyways, so they try to cover it up by pushing others away.
I'd blame the dad for spoiling him. But I guess it's only natural for a spoiled, rich kid born into privilege to act that way. Well, he'll eventually have his own character development in the end.
Keeping that up for another 7 years is somewhat admirably... or not. Ho well, let's see if he's been like that to Sora as well (the little snippet in the city traffic insinuates otherwise) or if he decided to be an utter despicable prick only towards everyone else.
(Careful, might get you stabbed without any involvement of an angry mountain god whatsoever)
Uh.. yeah, without giving you too much spoiler, he is like that to Sora too, but I have a feeling he is acting more like a tsundere when he is purposefully being mean to Sora (behind that facade he actually cares for him). But that side of him is benign in my opinion. What is frightening is the violent outbursts that he sometimes has due to his affliction. You will see how bad it can get in a few chapters. Stay tuned...
If that was what he's doing I'd disagree with you. He's just using it as an excuse to treat others like shit. After all, in the scenario you've given, no one around him is deliberately causing him pain but he is deliberately causing pain to those around him. But I don't think that is what is happening. He's being a shit to protect OTHERS in the only way he thinks he can.
It's not benign if you're causing anyone pain for no reason.
Something that's irked me about Ken's abrasive behavior towards Kirara is that at this point we can likely guess that Ken has had feelings for Kirara for some time but due to internalized homophobia he can't express it. Despite having a positive example of a gay man ,his own father. Granted there's the likely resentment of his parents' broken marriage due this father's sexuality. Yet it's heavily implied to disregard these feelings he's dated and slept with a considerable amount of girls at his school whom he had no feelings for, but continues to go on the offense as soon as anyone shows even sligh interest in Kirara romantically and takes at various opportunities to forcibly kiss Kirara or be domineering and manipulative in Kirara's life as if he's entitled to Kirara as a prized possession. Yet can switch to be standoffish and virtually arctic in his interactions with Kirara within seconds. Neither have them have confessed at this point but it really bothers me how Ken has been trying to have his cake and eat it too by being "straight" but forcibly initiating physical intamacy with Kirara without providing any honesty or a willingness to change the status quo. Kirara is slightly at fault for continuouslly allowing this as when it comes to Ken, Kirara's otherwise rather vocal demand to not be treated like a girl which Ken does in order to rationalize his inner turmoil is no where to be heard. Does this double standard not bother anyone at all how horribly Ken treats Kirara emotionally even if he does comes to Kirara's aid when it's necessary( gang fights)? I just find Ken's actions to be selfish whether he led this girls on just to get laid or how he continues to lead on Kirara with no clear outcome towards a progression in their relationship. I always hate how bullshit this kind of unrequited love rewards being a coward with the expectation that the ml's romantic interest is more than usually portrayed to be "pure" but the coward is allowed to be hedonistic douche the entire time until they feel like they've run their course. The imbalance in their relationship is so jarring. I know Ken isn't the only seme who is archetypical written this way but it's actually pretty shity how this element of his characterization won't be addressed
ok what (=・ω・=) well, i kind of your point. But is it all worth to write an entire length of an essay?
you kinda pointed out the obvious
That bothers me too. Each and every time. But there is nothing I can do. ╮(￣▽￣)╭
I COMPLETELY AGREE! and i also hate how a lot of the times the uke doesnt seem to mind this selfish action and obviously its not their fault bcs they are more open with their feelings , i wouldve hoped to see a bit of resistant on the uke part in order for the seme to own up to his mistakes and genuinely confessed rather than everyone just going with the flow and i hope kirara at least gave ken a taste of his own medicine or something
it's literally funny how an baichu becomes more a more a piece of shit as we learn about him. So Lu Lang's father is alive likely and An Baichu and his father know this. lols and now he's feeling bad about it and even possibly are illegally experimenting on him too?! It literally makes me so angry that Lu Lang will end up with this morally corrupt person who simply fucked up his life and continues to do so behind the scenes.
yeah so true. even if the mangaka puts this "he is changed now" plot point in the future, i dont think ill like him any better.
I WISH theres a plot twist and lu lang ends with pink hair instead
ikrrr like i hate him so much cuz no matter how much he changes he'll still give langlang shit and treat him like a test subject
i'll never like him
YOO FAAAM
SSSUUUUPP
i honestly feel sorry for the MC, his friends are just horrible. I get you're bored enough to torment your gullible smol friend, but bruv you're shit friends.
I don’t know if it’s just me but there’s something about Kyle’s personality that just seems fake all the time like I can’t really get into him because he seems the type to act a certain way to get people do things for him. Idk
Spoilers
Firstly I don’t know anyone could sleep with someone for two years and not once question whom they were sleeping with. The suspension of disbelief of such naïveté only goes so far before that’s just being stupid in regards to your safety. Secondly if you’ve been in love with that person for upwards of 7 years and took advantage of them for at least two years having sex with them under false pretenses saying a simple I’m sorry is ridiculous going as far as going through his phone and likely stalking him in order to obtain his sexual preferences to then inact them yourself. I’d honestly find you a horrible person and simply a creep willing to stoop that low to use someone like that. It’s yaoi so he’ll be forgiven but the whole concept of being betrayed like that seriously grossed me out. This is why I tend to just dislike uke likes semes they really love to use underhanded methods in pursuit of their love interest just like the average overly masculine seme, however they’re given the pass of being cute for dominating their much larger uke. They’re really just as bad as all other manipulative semes and hide behind their crocodile tears. I wouldn’t even want to be in the same room as that person ever again even if I hadn’t already called the cops that is.
^^^^ Thank u!! Honestly I hoped the hyung just straight up walked away and called the cops after hearing that confession.
honestly speaking this kid killed over 10 people who the hell even releases someone like that for good behavior he's suppose to get life in prison or the death sentence in some countries. This is clearly one fucked up fictional justice system.
Ofc should be some voodoo thing he demon did to the police. They need the deaths. Do they have a quata or smth? *shrugs
My issue with scenarios like this where there’s quote on quote an “uke like seme” they always tend to coerce their partner into sex because they’re usually physically smaller. Here he waited until the other was almost black out drunk to make a move. We know that Taeja under normal circumstances would never allow himself be in a situation like that so always makes me uncomfortable that in order to reveal their uke side there needs to be dubious consent leaning on the rape side because that’s what happened if we’re being honest.
Yeah I don't like it when stories portray people getting taken advantage of when they are under the influence, it's messed up and is a form of rape. But it don't think this seme intended to do that, I mean he just went to take a call and came back to a couple of passed out drunks.
While I do agree that there was a certain degree ofcoercion going on here, I think it's unfair to claim that this is an issue with ''uke like seme''. Most yaoi comics have a form of non-consensual or dubious consent going on, people complain about it all the time.
It's not an issue with ''uke like seme'' it's an issue with yaoi--in general.
And fyi, there are stories with ''uke like seme'' without ''coercion''. For example, Otona Keikenchi, Urahara to Dilemma and the webtoon All About Lust to name a few.
Of course it’s an issue with the genre itself. My issue was the praise and novelty given to “uke like semes” for breakin the norm in their aesthic apparance but regardless have the same behaviors and actions as their overtly masculine counterparts. What I’m saying is that the coercion is taken into lesser consideration because they’re cute for gaining the upper hand. It’s like in real life when women rape men and it’s reduced to a joke because both men and women unfairly think men placed in those situations either wanted the sex or should be ridiculed for ever having been assaulted. Regardless of who committed the crime it’s the crime itself that it is important. What I’m saying is because it’s a flip on the script we’re used to the crime isn’t given the same significance. A near black out man is taken advantage of by a sober aquintance. That’s it. But because the guy who committed the crime is cute and they guy being taken advantage of is sexy it’s not seen as same yaoi rape/ coercion
No, you see, what is the unfair claim in your statement is the conclusion that because the ''uke like seme'' is cute, their actions are not seen as the same yaoi rape/coercion. It's a narrowed conclusion, since nearly all yaoi, regardless of the ''uke like seme'', has an element of coercion whereby the crime isn't given any significance.
In the more common yaoi with a cute uke and a masculine seme, we are dealt the same hand. There is usually coericion or rape in the stories, but people shrug it off, in the same way that they shrug off the coercion coming from an ''uke like seme''. How many times has the masculine seme dealt with the repercussions of coercing the uke? How many times was the cute uke supposed to shrug it off because 'he's a man' and 'men shouldn't complain like women' (I'm paraphrasing from the yaoi stories I've read)? The lack of siginificance given to the coercion that a man experiences in yaoi is not worse or limited to ''uke like seme''. It's everywhere. Which is why it's an issue with the genre itself, and not limited to the ''uke like seme'' stories.
My issue with your statement is that your claim is similar to: ''Look at how bad one half of the bread is," while the whole bread is essentially rotten. It also implies that ''uke like seme'' stories are incapable of not having an ''uke like seme'' without him resorting to coercion, and that would be false. It also implies that ''uke like seme'' do not deal with the repercussions of coercing a ''seme like uke'' as much as the traditional seme when in actuality, all (or otherwise most) seme regardless of their masculinity or lack of, do not deal with the repercussions of coercing an uke.
Sidenote: I'm not defending the coercing aspect of yaoi. It's a big pet peeve of mine actually, and I tend to have to restrain myself from going into a rant when I do see coercion in yaoi. I'm simply pointing out that your coin has two sides, opposed to only one.
In other words: The fact that few people (or none at all) complain about the cute seme pushing down the masculine uke with coercion, has nothing to do with the seme being an ''uke like seme'', but everything to do with yaoi in general not giving a damn if a male is coerced to have sex with another male. Proof being: nearly all yaoi on this site.
I think you may be missing my point. I’m not disputing anything you said as I too truly hate what BL has been reduced to at times as cesspool of toxic masculinity. What I’m complaining about is that while ultimately in both scenarios coercion is ignored by readers whether or not cocerion is prompted by a masculine or femme inclined seme. I’m instead complaining about how one is praised over the other. It’s not that uke like semes in every story resort to coercion necessarily and may be the way I phrased it implied that and gave off a generalization for that I apologize. It’s rather in most instances even if the coercion is all but ignored when committed by either a feminine seme or masculine seme, the feminine seme is actually praised for being different than the norm. Your suggestion that I’m commenting solely on only half of a rotten loaf of bread, is instead me suggesting that the entire loaf of bread is rotten when others see that only one mold spore is present on one loaf among a pantry of rotten loaves. “Well this piece of bread is alright i’ll just eat around the bad part”, when in reality it’s already contaminated and should be thrown out just like it’s peers. It may be narrow to you as you’ve said, but I just see it as the same old story turned onto it’s side. To repurpose your coin metaphor, weNre used to seeing heads but when we’ve landed on tails it comes as a novel surprise but it’s still the same coin after all.
this was a nice argument to read. a plus
i haven't read this manhwa and want to start reading it, but I did skim some of the comment sections to get a feel and ultimately read some spoilers which I'm fine with. Yet I have a question since reading these comments, can anyone explain to me why Jishu should end up with the dark haired one, I'm assuming Heejae when he's apparently done nothing but emotional harm to the mc by manipulating him to such an extreme degree. Like i'm honestly curious why people want the mc to end up with someone who's wronged him so badly simply because he loves his victim now? It's likely the yaoi logic of they're the end goal coupling anyway, but does anyone have any other justifications? I do want to read this but it seems like the ending will be cliched based on my acquired spoilers
i don't even see the point of why people are upvoting or downvoting someone asking a question in order to just get others opinions on reading a manhwa like I'm not even giving my own opinion for others to disagree or disagree with?
(〜￣△￣)〜
it’s not about yaoi logic or whatever. maybe you should read the manhwa to find out. all i can say is that people root for heejae because he loves jisuh, and vice-versa. he has his flaws, of course, but he’s more mature and his feelings towards jisuh seem more serious than that of sunyool’s.
i can understand that, I'm just curious why that's enough to erase everything he's done wrong simply because he says "I love you" and just because now he apparently means it. Does he deserve to get rewarded after all he's done just because he feels bad or because he'll be punished in some way. My thing is it's yaoi logic when someone does something which typically is inexcusable like what it seems like manipulating someone to have to interact with an abusive ex just because it seems entertaining and then be forgiven just because they say "i love you". I should say rather it's fictional logic, but it just seems so pointless to make a cliche ending like every other blackmail/manipulation story on this site.
to clarify i''m just tired of the reward someone despite their wrong doings trope, it's not even a "second chance" in most instances it's simply ignoring the underlying issue of broken trust for convenience sake.
Well now that you have all your assumptions and analysis regarding the issue raised in this story, you'll know better not to read this manhwa because it goes against your preferred trope.
This manhwa just happens to be my thing because I like prolonged, complicated stories with characters who has strong ego and manipulative streak. Also it doesn't stop as only a yaoi logic thing, it's a toxic relationship logic thing.
Anyways I'd suggest before posting in the comment section and starting your argument by stating you've only skimmed the comment section, try to actually read it first... I'm not the type of person who dislike having a conversation with a partner who didn't came prepared and only running in assumtion., hence your downvotes.
*not the type of person who likes having a conversation with...
Sorry for the typo