simsim

IM HOLLERING I ACTUALLY READ IT WITH THE WOMANS VOICE

I mean, all the whale comments as well oof. Writing is not THAT difficult my dudes

Yeah, either both are open and honest about everything, or the two zigzag around the matter of his ex. Ash is, like, scoulding him? Like a child? about being honest about his feelings and treating him like the problem, and in the same breath is refusing to talk about his ex, and saying "let's not talk about it". Of course Lyle is gonna be insecure about it. Ash need to say sorry for this too.

I might be unreasonable but I feel like the apology should include him not talking with Lyle about his past relationship before the friends came over. I ended a relationship similar way (as in I got cheated on and left him but I didn’t want anyone to know) and my (then) friends acted like this too so I told my next partner when things got serious to avoid drama.

Yeah it feels like Ash is kind of a reg flag…

OKAY YES I noticed that too like why was Ash treating Lyle like he was disappointed in him or Lyle committed a moral failing for feeling/thinking this. Mind you, Lyle was feeling VERY normal emotions (i.e., jealousy and betrayal) & being made to sound like he's completely unreasonable for his thought process... he heard the info from YOUR friends ffs of course he'd believe them lolll

I 100% agree with you. It's so important to prep your partner in this situation, especially since the ex was such a big part of your life / your friend group. Ash should have had that "just in case" conversation with Lyle instead of avoiding the topic. Even if he didn't want to go into details... he could have given him something broad to reassure him in advance. Treat people the way you'd like to be treated and all that...

And he definitely should have told his friends in advance to shut the hell up and respect their relationship or had a public callout RIGHT THERE at the dinner table. Something like "I'm with Lyle not with Hazel. Please respect our relationship. I bought a fucking house with him." Maybe then his friends wouldn't have gossiped every fucking day they were staying in said house lol. Ash really fumbled the ball here and set up all the cards so Lyle would be in the worst position to handle this situation.

YESSS EXACTLY!!!!

I’d love to hear your thoughts about chapters 41-43 because that’s when I first started thinking Ash is a red flag

Its crazy, and that scoulding make the insecurities of Lyle worse. If it heard everythjng from his partner in the first place, none of that would have happened. He w9uld know his friends dont know why they broke up, he would know he didnt bond with him, and planned to marry him, and he would know he DOES NOT HAVE FEELING FOR HIM. This is on Ash.

okay I completely get what you mean by red flag behavior. I felt really uncomfy with the way he was talking to Lyle during sex with the whole "who taught you this" vibe. I know people find that sexy in manhwas but it always feels like a pretty big red flag to me because of the weird implications + it feels like a trap lol there's no suitable way the person can respond. Technically they weren't even in a relationship at this point either so it puts Lyle in an even more uncomfy position. Idrgaf about his apology sorry yall ask for permission not for forgiveness.

Speaking of apologies... Ash was apologizing pretty profusely while Lyle was crying but IDK i found that to also be kind of questionable because he was not communicating with Lyle well during the scene to check if he was comfortable. He didn't even know what he was apologizing for bc during the whole scene Lyle expressed discomfort & Ash ignored it. You can't just assume your partner (who you KNOW has less experience / comfortability than you) is gonna be cool with everything without asking before or during. It was definitely not the worst for a BL but it was pretty clear red flag behavior. And I'm a lil biased but I did feel like Ash was stringing Lyle along at this point by pseudo dating him but refusing to commit but maybe that's MY red flag ...

I’ve never considered that perspective before, and honestly yeah that is a VERY uncomfortable line that not only brings up the other persons memories of having sex with someone else but could also be super damaging if the memory was bad or traumatic. (Or the memory could even be ruined by thinking about it while doing it with someone else)
I immediately get icked out when characters don’t do consent right, it makes no sense from a writing perspective to pass on showing consent when it creates buildup, anticipation, and suspense without fear. It makes me lose respect for the author because they’re choosing to make the majority of their audience uncomfortable just to cater to the creeps.
That second part reminds me of few sayings, a blind apology is like slapping a bandaid over a bullet wound, you don’t know what’s wrong beneath the surface. And when you assume, you make an ass out of you and me. You’re in complete green flag territory, I’ve never treated someone that I only sex with like that before. It was cruelly misleading of him to act like that.

YESSS I think red flags are more frustrating with Ash too because people love to pretend like he's the greenest flag ever so they erase shady stuff he's done. That was 1000% dubious consent. The murky scene + his specific dirty talk would serve some sort of narrative plot device if it resulted in Ash thinking to himself why did he lose control like that / why was he so out of it / why was he so upset at the idea of Lyle having prev experience with someone, etc. & realizing maybe he likes Lyle more than he thinks he does...Instead they just keep moving on & don't address it (if my memory serves me right)... I think the author just wanted to show that Ash is dominant & overpowering in bed and Lyle is inexperienced to try and create some sort of sexy dynamic lol, but irl this would be so scary. If I was Lyle I'd have a hard time trusting Ash & having sex again especially without some form of safe word / checking in throughout. Even then, could I trust that he could snap out of it??

++ to your point about Ash being cruelly misleading: OMG THANK YOU. When the last arc of the main story was happening, I saw so many people saying we shouldn't be upset at Ash because he technically never said anything to Lyle to make him assume they were more / he was very blunt with their relationship, but this is an insane take to me. Ash was incessantly affectionate and showered Lyle with constant casual intimacy (esp. words of affirmation and physical affection). There is literally no difference in the way that Ash treated Lyle in chapter 44-45 and how he treats him now as his established long-term partner. That should say enough about how much Ash blurred the lines between them. With a dynamic like that, OF COURSE Lyle is still insecure about himself in their relationship!!!!! He was SET UPPPP

Btw this thread was so cathartic to me because I feel like usually no one can breathe a negative word about their relationship in the comments I like Ash for how steady and affectionate he is but people need to stop pretending like the only person who needs to grow in their relationship is Karlyle.

Fr people should at least be willing to admit that he’s an orange flag at best, his sweetness factor plus his toxic traits are a very destructive combo in real life. The author came so close to hitting character development gold, if they had given Ash a chance to realize his feelings on his own accord he would’ve seemed more emotionally mature, he could’ve recognized that he was blurring the line between casual sex and love and confessed that to Lyle. But people who have to lose someone in order to appreciate them don’t deserve who they lost. I don’t feel like he’s to the point where he’s irredeemable but he needs to work on himself a lot more before he gives Lyle permanent relationship issues. (or should I say more of them) I feel the same way dude, it’s great being able to discuss these characters with someone who can both appreciate and critique them. I hate how things have shifted from being able to discuss the good and the bad parts of mangas and still being considered a fan, to being labeled a hater for saying anything even remotely negative.

Btw if you’re interested someone gave me a link to the raws (it has some pop-up ads though) and it goes up to chapter 11 it’s not translated but it’s worth checking out if you want to!
https://boylove.cc/home/book/index/id/13287