I´m currently in volume 5 and I just want to share my thoughts on this so far. When I started reading it, because I wanted to check out some of the first works of Yaoi/Shounen ai, I expected a lot of angst, homophobia and not really explicit stuff, maybe a kiss or two after several volumes. Boy was I wrong when it comes to the last point. It really dives right into rape, physical abuse, mental abuse, pedophilia etc. and man does it dive deep. I´m in the middle of Gilberts backstory right now and I don´t think I have ever seen such a horrific portrayal of child abuse. Normally I do not pause reading a manga, because of its heavy subject matter, but in this case I really need some breaks in between to be able to push through (which gives me time to write long, rambling comments yayyy). But even though it has certainly not been an enjoyable reading experience so far, I think it is a very good piece of work, with very interesting and complex characters and relationships. Actually, the two main characters remind me a lot of Utena and Anthy from Revolutionary Girl Utena, my favorite anime of all time, and which google tells me actually was heavily influenced by this manga.
Since it is always great to compare your favorite works of fiction to its predecessors, here are the parallels between Utena/Serge and Anthy/Gilbert, that I see:
(SPOILERS for Revolutionary Girl Utena)
Serge is compassionate with a strong sense of right and wrong, which leads him to wanting to help Gilbert, who he sees suffering. In his naive approach to "fix" Gilbert, without understanding why he acts the way he does, he often ends up hurting him even more ("cruel innocence"). In general has no experience with the things Gilbert is going through and is horrible out of his depth. Despite that, he is pretty much the only one who sees Gilbert as a person and who tries to connect with him in a real way. Gets pressured/tempted to conform to his heteronormative society. When approached by Gilberts abuser, who wants to interfere with their growing relationship in order to keep him isolated, he is immediately taking in by his charm and is manipulated quite heavily.
Gilbert is trapped in a massively abusive relationship, which shaped him to fulfill a certain role, a role he is constantly getting abused for from the rest of society. He is also using that role as a mask to hide his true feelings behind and takes the small leverage that it gives him to lash out and hurt other people in return. Is in general suffering A LOT. Gigantic trust issues. Part of him resents Serge for his naivety and his simple sense of justice. Is not able (yet?? God, I hope) to sever ties with his abuser.
Interestingly, they switched some characteristics (or more like in Utena these characteristics were switched), with Serge being the one with darker skin and Gilbert not fitting into the traditional gender roles.
Man Sign Language is one of the very few Yaois where I´m like, "The second pair is fine and everything, but when can we get back to the MAIN COUPLE???"
Oh god that was both incredible cute and incredible sad at the same time.
But seriously, that was such a nice way to show us what is going on in the head of zombie boy.
His imagination is so cute, simple and innocent, except for the sex (because this is what he knows best).
He imagines Mr. office worker with bunny ears.
He imagines Mr. office worker nagging in a caring way, like he always does (apparently that is why he fell for him).
He can talk in his dream (and expresses all the things he normally can´t).
He has a normal arm in his dream, HE HAS A NORMAL ARM IN HIS DREAM, this is not what should destroy me the most from all of these things, but somehow it is.
How can this chapter make me feel so many things (╯°Д °)╯╧╧
He's literally a child with brain damage that they physically altered and are marketing as a sex slave/ doll. He's not just a zombie and he isn't "innocent", he just had his mental capacity reduced because he is now mentally handicapped due to brain trauma. Its like taking a 12 year old that got into a bad car accident and then turning them into a sex slave. Its human trafficking. So not only is he an underaged child, he's is mentally challenged. These creeps are raping a mentally challenged child and acting as though he is a doll. Im sure back story will show that he was either dead or had severe brain trauma and they then turned him into this. Its so disgusting.
Yepp, all true and what makes it so interesting to me? Since these elements are not there as a cheap turn on, but are actually explored and make up the whole point of the story. And it is made very clear from the beginning, that what is happening to the boy is wrong. In my opinion the author does an incredible job of delving into these very complex and painful themes and comments on them in a very delicate and meaningful way.
For example the story is super dark, while using very simple and "cute" art/language to communicate it. I love the contrast of the normal office life on the surface (the way Shindou interacts with his colleagues etc.) and the actual matter of the work. E.g. what was discussed during the meeting was incredible disturbing and just plain cruel (wanting to make their "sex slave toy" to feel embarrassed as a turn on -> wanting to make him realize, that what is happening to him is wrong). But it was not portrayed in any other way than a "normal and fun" meeting discussion in other manga. It was later shown through Shindou how wrong that is (-> the whole "it would be better for him to stay stupid" bit), but first the readers have to think about it for themselves. There are no surface level indications during the meeting about how disturbing it actually is, so you really need to pay attention and think about the implications for yourself. I really like how this challenges the reader, especially since rape is such a common trope in Yaoi. But like I said earlier the story also makes it very clear that everything done to the little boy is very very wrong, through Shindou, but only after presenting it first as something "normal".
This little piece of the story alone is such great commentary on the commodification of the human body, rape culture, normalization of violence in a corporate setting, dehumanization of our society in the wake of scientific advancement, dehumanization of people with mental disabilities etc. etc. There is just so much there!
Eh anyway, enough with the ramble.
I get why you get uncomfortable with this story, it is meant to be uncomfortable, and you don´t have to read it if this is not for you. But maybe you can give it a second chance, because it is f*** good.
This is wonderful. You are wonderful.ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~
Hahaha sorry, it seems you misunderstood.... I'm also interested in this story. I didn't mean its disgusting that the story exists, I meant what has been done to the child in this story is disgusting. I've already read the raws and intend to read all the translated chapters too, so no need to give it a second chance. I just wanted to say what I did because I agree with you that the author is commenting on the stuff you also described in your comment and wanted to elaborate on the situation because some of the readers I see are leaving comments that are in direct contrast to what the author is trying to portray because they're kind of fetishizing it or normalizing it or talking about wanting to see the man and child have sex, etc etc. I'm somebody that watches a lot of documentaries and reads about personal stories of childhood sexual assault victims because its so awful to me and I want to be able to help children and identify abuse when I see it. I think its important to know this stuff does happen in the world instead of looking away from it because its too sad or scary. It just makes me upset that when manga artist try to comment on this stuff, even if they aren't doing a great job at it, that there are still people missing the artist's message and doing the exact opposite of what the manga is saying so I was just adding my piece to yours so that people would realize how serious it is because some readers are not taking it seriously.
Haha oops :D I was thrown off by another comment of yours, where you said you weren´t sure about the authors intentions.
Anyway, great we are on the same page! And I got an excuse to ramble about why I find this manga so interesting, which I always appreciate.
And I know what you mean with certain comments, even though I think for the most part, the comment section for this manga has been pretty solid so far and I don´t remember seeing especially bad ones. But yeah, the normalization of the sexualization of children is the biggest issue I have with anime/manga in general (among many other things -.-), and nothing gets me to drop a story faster than that.
....Another reason why I like this manga, because I think is does a good job illustrating the huge imbalance of power/knowledge/emotional maturity between a child and an adult. And I totally agree that a relationship between Shindou and the little boy would be very unhealthy at this point. But seeing how their relationship is portrayed so far gives me hope, that I will not be disappointed by the end (e.g. Shindou never being portrayed as getting turned on by him/ogling him in a pervy way, the only sex scene being purely the fantasy of the little boy). But I have not read the raws, so I hope comments like this will not come back to bite me in the butt ╮(￣▽￣)╭
Huh it turns out Sung Joon is the kinky one in their relationship, what a twist!
And the scene with Bin and his Hyung was hilarious, the refund Lady is my hero
That panel of him submerging himself is just the best. I cannot believe how pure and cute our big boy is. I´m still wavering between this being him just not being able to take Yu Yangs charm and beauty anymore or him punishing himself for telling Yu Yang to go. Or both ╮(￣▽￣)╭
Not sure what to think yet, let´s see what happens in the next few chapters. It might look like she remembers Guts as the bad guy in the eclipse and Griffith as the victim? But like I said let´s see how it will play out in the next chapter.
Still, I´m a really conflicted about this chapter. I reread Berserk in its entirety to celebrate the fact that Casca is coming back and so far (which is arguably not much yet) she really does not seem like herself at all? Of course she just regained her sanity after years of spending in some sort of vegetative state and her memories are still really messed up, but all her reactions and dialog just did not fit old Casca at all. Instead of reminding me of pre-eclipse Casca, she seemed to be a completely new character. And I´m really bothered by that. Also her appearance is really....changed. I do not think I have ever seen her childlike like that and I hated, hated the dress. Because that is important in this moment...that she wears a cute dress...totally fitting... yepp.
Anyway, like I said this one chapter is really not much to go on yet and after 21 years of waiting the actual return is bound to disappoint, because what you actually get will never fit exactly what you imagined for so many years. But still, I always loved pre-eclipse Casca and really wanted her to be her own character again, instead of a plot-device and an object Guts can angst over, and this chapter really does not make me hopeful......
Completely agree. What's with the new appearance? There was some implication that she IS a new person after everything she has gone through as Casca and Elaine, which is understandable, but still I don't really see any of the old Casca in there. This might turn into another 20 years of waiting before she becomes herself again. Don't know if I prefer that over being stuck with this Casca. Of course it's way too early to be able to tell much but at this point I am also not too hopeful..
You never really go back to being the person you used to be after a mental collapse, but she gets to be the one who decides who she is now. I think there's something to be hopeful of there.
I don't think so. I think she is just getting all her memories back--the good, bad and the horrific. I don't think her memories are altered and she'll see Griffith as a victim but become to hate him and will want revenge for what he did to her and her unborn child. I honestly think her and Guts are going to talk.
Maybe I should have phrased myself a little bit differently and instead of saying “behaves not like old Casca” I should have said “behaves not realistically”. What we see in the chapter is not a realistic depiction of how Casca (or anybody) would react in this situation. In this whole chapter (apart from the very end) she is calm and collected, does not ask any question (!) and just…goes with everything. She says she remembers everything from her time as “Elaine”, but how can that fit these reactions. She went through horrible, horrible things as Elaine, including multiple attempted rapes (one time from Guts), almost burning at the stake, giving birth to a monstrosity, an endless onslaught of monsters etc. And on the less gruesome side she also witnessed so many creatures and feats of magic, she previously did not know were possible/existed (including the fairy king right in front of her). Also, she greets her caregivers, strangers she did not know previously, and who needed to take care of her 24/7, who fed her/bathed her etc. and who just came out of her mind, with basically “Hey guys, nice to meet you”. That is certainly not how I would react. And also if the last thing she remembers from being herself is going to rescue Griffith….how come she never asks about him?? Seriously, that is so glaringly out of character it hurts. The other stuff I could chalk up, very grudgingly, to “Well she is still confused and very much in a dream like state”, but not this.
And that is the point I´m so disappointed in. Portraying Casca and her reactions to what happened to her is not at all what this chapter is about. It is about her as a romantic ideal for Guts and the readers expectations of their happy reunion. That is why she wears this horrible dress and is drawn so much more feminine, pretty and *sigh* young. This chapter may feature Casca front and center, but in the end it is not about her at all. And after 21 years of potato Casca (or Elaine, which is a nicer name for it) this is just disheartening.
Like I said in my first comment, this is only one chapter and not much to go on yet and it is very much possible that, after playing with the expectations of the audience in this chapter, Miura will dive in the messy, gritty and ugly realities of what happened to her from Cascas own perspective. But with how the chapter ends, there is a possibility that this is not going to happen and in the next chapter we might get how she remembers Guts as the bad guy in the eclipse and how tragic that is….for him.
I´m glad other people are more hopeful then me and I really hope my fears will proof to be unjustified. But yeah, I was incredible excited going into chapter 355 and now I´m just tired...
I was thinking like you at first "what the hell with this dress, and this behavior". But I think it was just the part of Casca with the good memories of her time with the band of Hawk and her other self. At this point she's still not fully awake (like she said), she most certainly needs a switch to make her remember the horrible part of her journey.. And saddly what better switch than Guts, the one that was with her all along her trauma (slaughter of her companions and rape), and who had also lead them to Griffith's despair, lost of control and confinement (but I don't think she will resent Guts for that since she remember him helping the Hawk rescue Griffith).
The dress then become more appropriate, it illustrates her happiness, joy to see the man she loves: her innocence freshly recovered but not at all her dark side: the horror of the battlefield, her warrior part. And of course she is a warrior but here whe mostly have a girl in love. I think Casca will become very soon more like the old Casca we liked! Hope so, but she will certainly be changed, marked.
And if she was happy at her wake up she will not be that happy after this chapter. And to be dressed as a woman will certainly not pleased her!
Maybe she will not want to see Guts because he'd make her remember, but if she is the Casca and she doesn't break like after the eclipse, she will certainly want to be alone and will have to speak to Guts (in the end Guts will certainly suffer a lot of it, again... or not?).
"... it illustrates her happiness, joy to see the man she loves..."
I get what you mean, but the reason, why I see/want to see all of the things in this chapter as playing with the expectations of the reader and as not actually true, is that I do not think Casca and Guts are or were ever actually in love. I mean they did care for each other and they had a lot in common, most prominently their desire to be closer to Griffith, putting them in a position where they could comfort each other. But real love? Nope. For Casca the man she loved has always been Griffith, even though that was never a healthy love in any way. The same goes for Guts, whether his feelings for Griffith are romantic or not. Also, I do not think Guts focusing on saving Casca was ever a proof of his love for her. Yes, he does it because he cares about her, but for me it was never because she was his big love, but because to him she is the last thing remaining from the Band of the Hawk, the last piece which represents the warmth from the days past. Plus, it is more complicated than that. Through Guts inner beast it was made, in my opinion, very clear that for him (insane) Casca is also a symbol for Griffiths betrayal and change into a monster and that he was using her to keep the pain and the rage over this fresh.
Anyway, what I want to say is that to me Cascas and Guts relationship is complicated and important, but not really a romantic one. Something I always felt validated through an interview with Miura, where he said I did not plan for Guts and Casca to get together, but included it midway to make things more dramatic. But on the other hand in the same interview he talks about how he does not really plan ahead, but just makes the story as it goes along ….so yeah, maybe he now feels like going really for romance between Casca and Guts -.-
I get why many people apparently want that, but to me that would really not fit with how it was presented previously and it would be really boring compared with the other directions this story could take. Not to mention that I shudder at the thought of what Cascas story arc will become if there is really a focus on romance…..
I respect your opinion and agree with you up to a point, but the fact that Casca looks like a completely new character seems just right to me. As you said, her memories are still messed up so that's why I think she remembers differently. Her memories came to her as if she was Elise. She forgot her child, she forgot the whole eclipse and now Gutts was the trigger that made her remember everything (hopefully she will remember correctly).
Casca has just woken up, but haven't came back..yet. In the following chapters she will slowly become the knight she was.
I know you must've waited a lot for the story to reach this point. Please just wait a little bit more, even if it seems to be harder than the previous period of time you spent with waiting :)
Elaine* not Elise. My bad :)
So hopeful :D I still cannot muster up the trust in Miura, that he will do justice by her.
But only one week left and we will know more!
You're right he might choose not to make it a happy ending for this arc. It's supposed to be a tragedy after all
I´m hoping for a Devilman Ending tbh.
Aaaaaand I guess we get back to Casca in a few motnhs....god damn it
Awww I love these two awkward cuties <3
And lets be honest, "I´m hungry, let´s eat." is both the best and most relatable ending to a sex scene ever.
There was some interesting themes and characterization going on in this one. I was expecting the normal plot threads, but this was actually not the case?
I knew some drama was bound to happen but...why does it have to be so hurtful for both of them??? (╯°Д °)╯╧╧
Watching Yu Yangs expression change felt like being punched in the heart.
I can just hope this will be resolved soon....(and I came here after feeling bad about another tragic story, whyyyyyyyy)
True, YuYang looked like he was punched in the gut. :( He couldn’t believe it. But hey he’s protecting his heart so I get why he acted so quickly and defriended our gentle giant
Yeah, I totally get is as well :( (And to be honest, simply unfriending him is a pretty mild reaction)
But man does all of it suck. I do not look forward to seeing more of Li Huans reaction next chapter.
Same ╥﹏╥