I mean i know we already knew this but holy shit Grandfel is hot!! P sure this is the first time we see his actual face (proven by the flashbacks and long hair that it's the actual Grandfel). Like sure he still looks handsome while merged with Hoyeol but something about that one panel is just,,, woah lol
As for story stuff, I'm so, so, so intrigued!!! Grandfel seemed to hesitate a bit when telling the spirit his name, likely very aware of his own darkness and how it doesn't have anything to do with Lee Hoyeol (as far as we know). I'm so curious as to what Hoyeol saw/felt during that flashback, did he witness any of it? I feel like he would have a reaction/thoughts if he did, bc he's gotten some flashes from Grandfel's past and has reacted/mentioned/thought about it. Ahhhhh, I really want him to question his beliefs about Grandfel being his creation and stoppung to consider that Grandfel is/was a real person from Arcana. I want the two of them to have a conversation or something. I kind of want to see Hoyeol "take back" control of his body for even a little bit, maybe to ask a question from an Arcanian (ie. have you heard of Grandfel's noble house) in case Grandfel wouldn't ask that, bc yeah he knows the answer and rn it doesn't seem like he wants to correct Hoyeol on the truth of matters. Or another instance to take back control, to hang out with his family.
I'm just babbling my thoughts, this series is cool and I'm genuinely so interested in all the world building/character stuff going on ヾ(☆▽☆)
Actually, this is a bit of a spoiler, but it's both - Grandfell is definitely a character Hoyeol created in his early teens, and he also has his own history on Arcana.
While Yulikian was ignorant (i mean, he was a child who grew up in comfort and priviledge) and did cause things to go worse for Crockton (and yeah, I agreed about his line when Yulikian asked him to come with him - but those are complexities children don't think about, hell, sometimes even adults don't think about, when they think they're doing a good thing/have been taught that there's a certain way of being so), Crockton never, never tried to understand Yulikian and see him past the label of hypocrite Crockton assigned to him in his mind.
Crockton had a shitty start, but he was the one who, in the end, chose to wallow in his self-pity and hatred. Had he not, he would've seen Yulikian genuinely thought of and treated him as a friend. One can have sympathy for his younger self, but the one who chose to be selfish and cruel was himself.
I do think it's an interesting contrast between Yulikian and Crockton - the one who grew up seemingly priviledged and loved has great empathy/compassion, and the one who started out with horrible circumstances has none at all. (Ofc I get that though situations may make someone be more ruthless, but it's still an interesting difference to me. Ig it's partly bc empathy isn't often taught to boys the same way as to girls (if at all), so to have the ML of the story be so empathetic/sympathetic/compassionate*, it's refreshing.)
*autistic sidenote, no need to read this if you don't want to: I reaally don't like the use of empathy as a word bc I feel like a lot of people use it when they actually mean sympathy, and the term is generally wayyyy overrated - that's why I prefer to use compassion, bc imo it encapsulates both.
Like, the literal definitions I've learned are:
Empathy = literally feeling what the other person is feeling, mirroring their feelings
Sympathy = imagining how the other feels (ie. making a connection between your own experience and someone else's to understand how someone might be feeling)
Maybe it's because I'm AuDH, maybe it's because I'm a non-native English speaker, but I never understood the "I don't need your sympathy" line in stories - I've never understood why sympathy has become synonymous w/ pity, there's nothing wrong with someone understandikghow you feel??
Similarly the thing w/ empathy, sometimes I get extremely empathetic and literally cry from hearing about someone's experiences/feelings, but i feel like when most people use the word they don't know what it means/they actually mean sympathy/compassion in general? Bc I may be autistic and may not feel how other ppl feel most of the time (empathy) but i sure as hell know i have sympathy, I can imagine how someone may feel and act according to that. You don't need to feel the feelings to act, well, with compassion.
TLDR of the last bit; I think we should all stop using the word empathy and use "compassion" instead, I believe it's a lot more accurate to what most people mean when they use the word anyway, and doesn't confuse the rest of us with the literal definitions. Thanks for coming to my TEDtalk ╮(￣∇￣")╭
Hiii i know it's random, but i might have some insight on the sympathy being mistaken for, or used, synonymous with pity.
I also have rants about empathy vs sympathy, but they are addressed to people that claim they have empathy but don't, so i get the frustration of seeing the terms used wrong :)).
Also i will talk about superiority and inferiority, and when i use the terms, i mean the relationship in a power dynamic, not someone's worth as a human being. The superior has more power and agency, the inferior has less, in contrast with the superior. It makes things easier to discuss (an example would be a parent and a child, there are a lot of different dynamics between parents and children at the same time, but there always is a power dynamic as well, the parent is responsible for the child's well-being and they have power to intervine. This is not about positive and negative, it is purely about the fact that power dynamic purely exist in daily life in a lot of human connections). I know the negative connotations behind the words, but since i need to kinda discuss power dynamic, they will have to do.
If you look at the definitions you gave for empathy and sympathy, empathy is very active, it is very involved, it implies the act of abandoning your own feeling and ideas for a moment and genuinely trying to connect and experience from someone else's perspective. Sometimes it can feel like losing yourself to find someone else. It is vulnerable and usually can be interpreted as an act of kindness, goodwill or love(in the general sense, not necessarily romantic).
Meanwhile, sympathy, while i would argue is useful, especially if immersing yourself in other people's feelings drains you or you need to keep a barrier between you and other people, it usually has the problem of imagination. Because people usually don't imagine what they would feel if they were the OTHER person in that situation, they imagine how they would feel if THEY were in that situation. It cuts out the other person and it is way more detached. You can feel it if you are venting to a person close in your life and they completely miss the mark on their assumptions about how you are feeling, despite knowing each other for a long time. When you explain they might understand, but the disconnect is created by using themselves as a benchmark for your experiences.
So, now, sympathy and empathy are both good things, great things even! They are usually fueled by a need to connect with another person, love, understanding, all the good nice stuff. We need them, they are amazing. But it is never a one way process.
If person A feels empathy/sympathy for person B and person B knows, person B will have a reaction. And, for some people, the simple fact that they are in a position where they can be percived as weak or in need of help creates a visceral negative reaction. It makes them feel less than, inferior and looked down upon. Because you have to be up to look down upon someone, which that would be person A, this solidifies in person B's head that they are in fact inferior. Crockton doesn't know if Yulikian has empathy or sympathy for him, because you cannot genuinely completely know what a person thinks, but you can assume. And Crockton's reaction, upon being perceived, upon having someone be in a position to be able to offer help(superior position to his), feels his inferiority (not saying he is inferior, i am saying he thinks that way, hence the whole rant he offers about how Yulikian is fake and selfish and he didn't even need help he was living just fine being abused because he didn't know he was and it is all Yulikian's fault actually so it's super cool and normal to betray the only person that was always by his side celebrating his victories and helping him because Yulikian was not honest anyways - this is projection, Crockton imagines what he would think and feel about himself if he was Yulikian and it is all negative, because he doesn't acknowledge any of Yulikian's actions and words, all he sees is his own perspective, which is negative, because obviously, he hates himself).
Here is where the sympathy and pity problem occur. Pity, in itself, is not necessarily bad, yet it hides the unspoken words that when you pity someone, they are inferior to you and you feel superior to them. And most people don't want to feel like they are in a position to be pitied, it is unpleasant in the best of cases. Add them wanting to offer help, which can be felt as them "acting as they know what is best for you" and you can even come to resent the person that is completely dedicated to help you. When people are uncomfortable, they go through a lot of mental gymnastics to validate and rationalize their feelings. Crockton thinks that help is for the weak and those who are above are better and a person in a superior position automatically dismisses those below them. So when he is in a vulnerable position where he is saved, he automatically assumes Yulikian is both hypocritical and looking down on him and he sees it as a humiliation, not an act of kindness and frankly speaking, human rights, we are talking about a child sold to be beaten, come on, not doing anything about that is the weird and unusual thing. When he goes to the emperor, he now finally has power over Yulikian, over his life, over his well-being and over his last remaining family. He finally feels like he is in a superior position.
Basically, because empathy implies that you feel the same way as someone, it also implies you lower yourself to an even power dynamic, so it generally gets a pass in most people's eye.
But sympathy doesn't require you to make that dynamic even, you use your imagination to imagine how it is to not be you, how it is to be less than. So it is associated with pity, and looking condescendingly down on people.
Is this true? No, most of the time people don't play weird power plays in their lives and going around and assuming that when someone is offering you compassion they actually think you are weak is unhealthy and keeps you from having human connections. Also assuming that offering someone compassion will make them hate you is also not in touch with reality.
But you cannot control other people's feelings, and sometimes it is just gonna be like that. To be honest, i think empathy, sympathy, compassion, all are good and great and we should have more of, and we will also never know what exactly we are receiving but it is great that we are and it is great that humanity is capable of this. What we can control is how we react, so we don't start doing weird mental power plays by ourselves like Crockton (because this is purely an internal process, Yulikian just exists and wants to help his friend), who, if he decided to have 1(one), literaly o n e single moment of connection with Yulikian and saw him as a person instead of a weird combination between everything he hates and everything he couldn't have, would have gained a profoundly kind and loving friend for life, not a life long obsession. The irony of their characterization is that Crockton chose to inflict abuse on a child the same way he suffered in his childhood, resented being offered empathy/sympathy/pity but he was never capable of offering the same to Yulikian and thus created a self fulfilling prophecy were he will probably see everything he resented actually become true, purely because of his own actions.
Pity has a bad reputation because the pitied and the pityer have a power dynamic, sympathy has bad PR even though it is an important life skill and empathy gets a pass because we need at least a word that is still usable i guess.
God i am so sorry this is so long but i am super passionate about this topic lmao.
Don't apologize for the lenght, I found it really interesting to read through and the explanation helpful (๑•ㅂ•)و✧ I also love that you added onto the character analysis on top of answering my weird/out of place rant. Genuinely ty! <3
ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~ im really really glad you enjoyed it and found it helpful. I also thought your comment was really interesting and well thought out
But the thing is Yulikian wasn’t all that privileged either. His parents died when he was young, his distant family killed what was left of his and wanted to kill him. Sure, he had money, but freedom? He might’ve had less than Crockton (or whatever his name is). He lived his entire life in fear and worry. It’s “funny” how someone as close to him as Croc did not realize that.
Absolutely! I don't think Yulikian has felt freedom or had agency over his own life for years + the fact that one wrong move might get him and all the people close to him killed. Crockton is living in delulu land 100% that it is almost funny when he has his flashbacks of being "humiliated" over the years by Yulikian and in most of the flashbacks Yulikian is having the worst time of his life and is in horrible situations. We see them twice at Yulikian's parents funeral and Crockton is mad he isn't suffering enough. He really is a piece of work ☠
Ikr? He’s “humiliation” flashbacks are just Yulikians trauma during which he still manages to be sweet and supportive
I'M SOO EXCITED I was laughing and slapping my knee the moment I saw Mizumoto in this chapter HAHAHAHA LET'S SEE HOW YOU CAN DEAL WITH THIS ONE MC ヾ(☆▽☆)
With chapter 91.... sigh... should've known the author would find a way, mc's plot? armor remains as strong as ever
Maybe the lack of dramatics between the leads is why i don't see many ppl talking about this series, or as many comments with each new chapter, but I honestl personally really like that about this story. There are some misunderstandings, but they don't feel over the top, and in general the two main leads have excellent communication (imo/compared to what we typically get), and I'm vibing with it.
Sorry, I mispressed. I meant to press like :(
So, the reason MTLs/lower-quality translations mix up the gendered pronouns,bis because Korean (according to what I've heard from others who know the language) doesn't really have them/has a lack of pronouns in general (at least I've noticed me/you getting mixed up almost as often as she/he gets mixed up in these).
It's better to rely on other words, such as "sister" (unnie/noona) or "brother" (oppa/hyung), but sometimes translations may get these mixed up. We also have to remember that a character may not automatically use gendered pronouns, and would use they/them in English instead ╮(￣▽￣)╭ ie. Cookie Run is a game made by South Korean game company, and it has a bunch of characters that use they/them in the official English translation.
But to answer the confusion, in this story, I'm 95% confident in saying the librarian is a woman, and I'd say the new teacher is likely he/him (though I also use they/them), just looking at how they're drawn and comparing that to other adult characters in the story.
I find it so intriguing how the story portrays Hoyeol and Grandfel's "relationship"/bodysharing-situationship (couldn't help myself seeing the other comments lol, I don't particularly ship them but thought those were funny] - and how blurred the line is.
Their bodies/souls definitely fused to a degree, but it's neither a complete fusion nor necessarily a case of solely cohabitation inside the same body. At times, the two seem perfectly in-sync, and Grandfel can clearly always hear Hoyeol and what he's doing/saying/thinking - but Hoyeol is no longer the main one in control of his body ie. It's usually Grandfel doing the speaking. They share a mind to a degree, with how Grandfel/Hoyeol was with Hoyeol's family, but at the same time, they are clearly two different people. We /know/ (sort of) Grandfel is in there, but for some reason Hoyeol can't know his individual thoughts nor does he automatically know everything Grandfel does.
Do correct me if I'm wrong, but I vaguely remember there being a moment where Hoyeol somewhat saw Grandfel's memories, confirming that Grandfel is more than just a character he creater when he was young.
It's just!! Argh!! It's so cool! Esp in the recent chapter it looks even more so like the two are communicating as if they were different people and not the same person (which, yeah, Grandfel has the control of the body and Hoyeol can only watch, but at the same time there's many times when the two are just in perfect sync, and we understand they share their thoughts.
At least, this is what I think.
We also know there's something special of a bond between the two, considering it seems like other players' characters also existed in the Arcana continent, but couldn't hold on to their personalities the same way Grandfel could (i could be misremembering, but I remember the red-headed barbarian to know the NPCs from the winter city in Hokkaido, and the NPCs also recognising him). Aahhh!!! I love this series so much, fr fr.
SOMEONE TALKING ABOUT THIS YESS!!!! I love and agree with every of ur analysis!!
Im kinda hoping that there are some characters with a similar case, like instead of the hoyeol/grandfell situation they would have their own seperate bodies but honestly thats such a reach lmao
Yeah same!! Sometime ago there was a comment talking about something relating to this, and I remember replying to someone how I'd find it super disappointing if it the reason was bc the MC wrote the cringy stuff about Grandfel and rp'd as him, and the story acts like he was the only one to do so and that's why things are as they are - when there's no way a game that popular had only one creative cringy teen playing it lol.
I'm sure there's a special bond between the two that explains it better, and I wouldn't be as mad that they're the only ones experiencing this if that is the case (for example, two halves of the same soul but separated into two dimensions until they weren't, something like that). Someone did reply that as a spoiler, there is something deeper going on, but they refused to say any more.
Absolutely loving the besties! I really hope the story won't try to use a love triangle trope, just bc they both seemingly like guys doesn-= mean they'll like each other, I hope the story will keep them as bros - their dynamic is so fun that way, too (๑•ㅂ•)و✧
(It's a trope and I'm tired of it, this feels so much more realistic to the dynamics and i'm so here for it)
Honestly, I'm happy to wait as long as they need to recover, I love this story a lot and want to keep seeing it in this art style. Honestly, ai hope they'll discuss bi-weekly uploads as rhe regular instead of weekly ones when the hiatus is over, if the weekly ones rake such a toll on the artist. Two weeks is nothing for this quality + the creators' health, at least to me.
I see this happen to too many artists, I won't stop bringing this up when ppl talk about hiatuses etc. I really want the industry to change for the better with how they treat their artists.
I hate that they're both literal teenagers (Fiammetta is 17, Glacier 18) - like, c'mon, at least 2-5 years older would've been fine,,, the only good part about it that the ML is young as well, usually they tend to make the MC a teenager and ML in his mid 20s
I don’t mind it cos they are only 1 year apart and both are now above 18. Considering there’s a lot of couples out there legally married at 18 in the real world so I’ll allow it. Usually there’s worse age gap pairs like 18 and 30. That is actual disgusting stuff
Yeah no my point wasn't the age gap between them, but their ages in general. What I was complaining about that they didn't need to be those specific ages, they could've been a few years older and it wouldn't make much of a difference, just nicer to have MCs not being so young for no good/particular reason. They could've been 19/20, they didn't need to be 17/18.
Though I'll be honest, the names do not tell me what series this is about, and idk if there's an easy way in mangago to find what your comment was posted under. P sure I haven't caught up with whatever it is since you're saying they're both over 18 now? Eh ╮(￣▽￣)╭
The way he held her after finding her... it's just so argh, you really feel his worry/relief of finding her. This series is so good and I'm so so happy for getting more updates