The second season literally starts the same as the first but more violent Like literally nothing happens in this story.
I read this as a kid/teen before it was finished (or at least finished translated). As I was a troubled teen I came back to it many times because I could relate. As well as finding comfort in the gruesomeness of it all. As a concept I think it still holds up today, but it’s a hard read. The characters are terribly misogynistic, I would even argue that the author is too to some extent (the female characters are always in the background, they are never part of important conversations and they mostly act as love interest or for plot development). I also think the author has a skewed view on suicide which impacts the whole story as it depends and revolves around exactly that. I am and will be biased towards it though as it holds a sentimental value for me. I’m looking forward to rereading holyland, and the prequel to Jisatsutou (suicide Island) named Muhoutou (lawless island), and after that Mori Koujis other works.
I encourage anyone who read this and enjoyed it or related to it to seek help
Literal rape is not bdsm.
This webtoon is fucked up (and not in the good way). It glorifies harmful kink practices, and justifies rape by calling it bdsm. It glorifies relationships with a power imbalance. It ignores the fact that women can rape men. Minhoo (MC, that’s his name right?) was manipulated and abused. Some of the characters should be in jail, and all of them need to get help and talk to a therapist. No one should read this, and Lezhin shouldn’t have picked it up again (or whatever happened). Ew
I don’t think this should be tagged, read as, or referred to as a yaoi. This story is not something that should be sexualized just because it shows sexual acts, it’s horrifically tragical. I hope nothing happens to Sachiko and that she and the college guy can help the brothers.
I completely disagree. I don't see anything wrong with labelling this story as a BL (I personnaly don't like the terminology "yaoi"). The relationship between Ikuro and Norihiko isn't romantic, but it's still an important part of the story. The relationship between Ikuro and Iida will surely play a big role in the next chapters, and because Iida was sexually interested in Ikuro, I guess it will evolve like that.
I don't think this story shouldn't be considered as a BL just because love relationships aren't the main subject. I want to see many more BL were the story doesn't only revolve about the development of a romantic relationship. The Ikuro/Norihiko relationship is despicable, manipulative, abusive... But it's the case in many BLs, and at least in this one, Norihiko is depicted as a villain.
Plus, you know, labels mean everything and nothing. Tourou no Ori is a BL because it's published in a BL magazine, and because Psyche Delico is a BL author. I agree it's not a classical BL, but it's one nonetheless. And the "BL" label is also to warn people who absolutely do not like to read/see sexual relationships between males.
And the sexual acts are drawn to be sexualized. Compare the sex scenes to other works from Psyche Delico with consensual relationships. We're supposed to find it sexy, but in a wrong way. Rape is a popular trope in hentai/hardcore yaoi. It doesn't mean it's fine to rape or rape is cool. For some, it's a fantasy.
im not sure what youre trying to make a point out of. seggsual scenes makes it a yaoi. its not that complex
BL stands for boy love and there is no love in this manga. I’m quoting you here “The Ikuro/Norihiko relationship is despicable, manipulative, abusive”, Norihiko groomed the mentally traumatized Ikuro from a very young age. There is no way to even tell if Ikuro is gay, or straight for the matter. The story isn’t about homosexual love or romance, it’s about a traumatized boy who is being groomed and raped by Norihiko and other men. Therefor it shouldn’t be called yaoi, and absolutely not BL.
I do agree the author is sexualizing it, that’s why I’m saying it shouldn’t be ‘read’ as something sexy. The story is fascinating, but being turned on by it (even if that’s what the author intended) is disturbing.
So every movie with a sex scene is a porno?
My point is that a story like this shouldn’t be sexualized, I don’t see how that’s hard to understand.
Most BLs shouldn't be sexualised. The genre is ultra problematic to begin with so I'm not entirely disagreeing with you but at the same time, I don't feel like this one should be especially targeted.
I absolutely agree with you! I’m especially targeting this one because it doesn’t just sexualized homosexual relationships, it’s sexualizes trauma, rape etc.
im not digging deep into this point your trying to make. im just stating things out. by definition it simply pertains to japanese comics involving homosexual erotica. a manga can be a horror and still be yaoi even if it involves only a single seggs scene. on a generic term its BL and the labels yaoi and shounen ai are only used as a form or disclaimer or warning
But you aren’t just “stating things out”, you are trying to disprove my point. I know that it by definition is a yaoi and honestly I just not picked at this specific manga because I just read it. I think the entire genre needs a big change to stop the sexualization of gay men and romanticization of rape and trauma. Your argument reads as if you’re justifying that same sexualization and romanticization just because that is the definition
*nitpicked
I agree that they should stop romanticizing rape but I’m not sure that this work is necessarily trying to do that. In all the sex scenes Ikuro is made to appear pitiful, trapped, and confused, if not scared, and most people here would agree and that’s why we want him outta there. If there’s any romanticization, it’s by sickos who think all of this is okay despite it clearly being portrayed as not.
If it fits the tag, it needs it. It has explicit gay sex, regardless if it’s hot or not - yaoi/BL. It’s specificallly about rape and trauma - tragedy, psychological. When you see those labels paired, usually there’s rape, manipulation, and/or an unhealthy relationship that crumbles. For example, there’s a horror sci-fi yaoi oneshot where there’s 1 explicit gang rape scene but it’s not meant to turn you on, it’s the motivation for the MC to kill all the guys. There’s another disturbing yaoi manga about child molestation - it has 1 explicit scene but it’s not meant to turn you on, it’s actually really sad and fucked up and I didn’t even finish it.
I don’t mind the use of rape and trauma for the sake of horror or disturbingness or tragedy because some people find that “interesting”, myself included. Maybe you just wanna feel bad for someone else or make yourself sick - I dunno people have different reasons. The real problem is when you have technically a rape scenario but it’s not made to be disturbing or pitiful or scary and is instead let go as nothing or encouraged. That happens more often in regular yaoi than works like this.
My point isn’t about what’s portrayed in the manga though, my point is about how it’s perceived (and how it’s portrayed). Tagging it as a yaoi sexualizes it, and people will therefore read it as a yaoi.
I’m not going to elaborate a lot on this, but what I meant with romanticization of rape in this context is: All of the sex scenes in this manga are rape, and if the manga is sexualized the rape will as a result be romanticized. I definitely think this manga handles rape better than many other yaoi, but it’s more about how it will be read.
Sometimes it feels like the author forgets that she was reincarnated from another world and not reborn. For example, why would the MC be so terrified of the princesses abuser? While yes she has Cayenas memories, MC is reincarnated before the abuse happens in the timeline. So she shouldn’t have Cayenas memories of the abuse. Is she terrified of what could happens? It’s like the story is confused by itself sometimes lol. Anyway this is not really a big deal, and the story works great and is a nice read.
Frrr(/TДT)/
Oh I thought she was reincarnated twice, first lived as cayenne then died and was korean then came back again but now that I think aboutbit I don't think they actually said that and I probably assumes based on the authors writing
Right!? I’ve read it from the beginning today, and she was only reincarnated from Korea. She read a book about Cayena and related to her situation, but nothing more.
Another example is the apple pie. In the chapter she bakes the apple pie she says she learnt it from her mother in Korea, and it’s seems like applepie with cinnamon is something new in Cayenas world. But when we see the memories of her childhood with her nanny it’s portrayed as if the nanny taught her and applepie is common. Of course it’s not outright said that the nanny taught her, and it never says if the pie contains cinnamon. But it’s still a confusing way to portray it.
Even though she was reincarnated before that timeline, since the princess experienced it all, the memories would be shown to the MC, from what I guess anyway. It's a common theme in these types of manga, especially if it's more of a revenge-type theme. Most times such memories are passed down to the soul that replaces the original so that they can properly have all the information and desire for revenge like the original did.
You’re probably right, too bad it’s not clarified properly. It feels like one shouldn’t have to speculate or read between the lines when it comes to something like this.
But I'd be terrified too if I meet someone that I know to be a creepy obsessive abuser. Just like women who would be scared to have an unknown man walk behind them at night even when they haven't experienced any misfortunes. And without even knowing the future he acted creepy enough already I had goosebumps while reading. But I see that it really seems like mc really thinks of herself as cayene.
I just started reading the novel and it is actually the case. It's explained in the very beginning, I don't understand why it hasn't been explained in the manhwa.
Agreed, we shouldn't have to do that. They should have clarified it better.
I had a suspicion that it was like that in the novel, so thanks for confirming!
That’s a valid point! He was definitely creepy enough to make anyone scared
I feel like the relationship with Daniel is progressing a little too fast. Also, it kinda feels like all the other plots were just abandoned to progress their relations idk. I was really looking forward to her meeting Dan but now I’m kinda disappointed.
At first I loved it because the humour is just my style. But then it got somber, and then it started hitting close to home. This story is unexpectedly deep and developed (unlike many other stories of this genre). All the characters are so well developed with personalities and motives, and I love how their personalities shine through in the way they’re drawn (gotta add that the art adds soo much, especially to the jokes). I especially love Hoya, Rayburns (?) sister. Her story is beautifully written. She’s her own person, and she’s especially interesting as a villain (I wonder if she actually is a villain). Unlike villains in other stories she isn’t just a plot device or an obstacle for the mc and ml, she has her own motives and it’s hard not to sympathize with them. I just can’t dislike her. I also am really curious about the crown princes personal guard, Bourbon. He seems very protective and caring of the crown prince, sometimes it almost seems like he is in love with him. Like he seemed jealous when the crown prince was told to propose to his fiancée. I might just be overanalyzing the hints though hahaha (Edit: I just realized Bourbon is a woman... No gay representation here I guess)
Anyways, I’m in love with this story unlike any other. I’m very curious what it will have to offer. I’m only at chapter 33 but I just had to share my thoughts.
Yeah this story is really good. The art is beautiful. All characters are likeable and good candidates for favorites. The pacing is really good too. Never dragging things on for too long or too little. The quality of this story is really good.
I think The Crown Prince's bodyguard is a women. they called 'her' not 'him/his'
I know, I even added an edit lol, but thank you.
Oh, my. Sorry, i didn't notice that ⁄(⁄ ⁄·⁄ω⁄·⁄ ⁄)⁄
That R-scene was SO out of nowhere, and had no, not a single ounce of, plot relevance.
Up until the Joon-storyline started this webtoon was *chefs kiss*. Loved the 80s vibe and the slice of life moments. This author should stick to that, instead of the psychological stuff they keep attempting.