Fruit's Topics (34)

Who is the man Jahea is talking to ?

56 = 54 raw

eunhos friend maybe

Kaneki, isn't an interesting character............................... really? Explain to me how any of this is Kaneki's fault? Last time I check, Kaneki didn't sign up to become a ghoul. Sure, he made mistakes, but he isn't the main blame.
Furuta is scum, who is ruining everyone's life because his obsession with Rize and dragon. He deserves hate. Touka doesn't deserve this hate because the main people that hate her are the people that ship Kaneki with someone else.

What would Tokyo Ghoul had been without Furuta?There basically wouldn't even be a story without Furuta.
Furuta didn't chose to be born in a clan of ghouls and be an experiment his entire life.Kaneki and Touka have been pretty stable characters not really doing anything in the story for a very long time in my opinion.
Kaneki's most interesting character arc was when he had lost his memories and was Haise.
Furuta's obsession with Rize is no different than Kaneki's obsession with Touka.
Touka hasn't had much participation in the story or in Kaneki's life for the most part.They just met again after years and after he told her he missed his friend they fucked.So what?
Still no chemistry or development.
Kaneki is vulnerable.He would cling into anyone who shows him the slightest "affection".And Touka is abusive towards him.Reminds Kaneki of his mother.
Touka's character had potential but the author decided to make her quit school all her dreams and hopes and ambitions just to make her Kaneki's wife and have her bare Kaneki's children.
What a cruel thing to do to a child.Touka and Kaneki should had thought better.Touka knows how it is to fear for your life everyday.To lose your family and loved ones because of being a monster ghoul basically the main enemy of humanity.
Kaneki also knows how it is to become something you didn't chose too and suffer and everything.So why would he want to bring a child who didn't chose to be born a monster and kill innocent people.
They are messed up.

Furuta is quite lovee actually my friends whole life revolves around him and I'm not even joking

I was about to agree about Furuta being such a great character because he is. I love him. He is so well written as the slow-creeping-then-in-your-face protagonist (moving the plot forward). Kaneki is the bullied hero of the story who is always pushed around by the protagonist/s. On Furuta, I am still not giving up my hope that he is just quadruple crossing everyone and will come out as the guy who did this for the better. He will later take all the blame. Similar to Code Geass' Lelouch.

But then the part about Kaneki and Touka. Ugh the team Touka-is-abusive and Touken-is-unhealthy strikes again. That's wrong. I know interpretation differs from one person to another but that perspective about Touken is just out of place, it's almost just made up to put the ship/pair down. This abuse from his mother and from Touka are from different perspectives and context thus will never be the same and Kaneki never recognized as the same. It's obvious thus the development of their relationship is another well execution by Ishida.

Hey don't put me in any team please.I don't have any teams.I'm my own person.Lol.
I don't care about ships in Tokyo Ghoul.It is not about romance and shit like that anyways.I only care about horror gore and characters like Furuta,Juuzou,Arima,Tsukiyama...I never cared about the main protagonists tbh and it seems like Ishida it's just making them have babies and other shit like that while the world is at war and their future is uncertain,only to make them relevant again.
What is interesting about Touka anymore?Only Kaneki's fetus.Where had Touka been for so long?Did anyone miss her?No.So he just gave her Kaneki's fetus to turn the fandoms attention on her a bit again.But the fans only care about her fetus.They don't care about Touka anymore.

.......you should just stop. You're digging yourself in a bigger hole.

wtf are you talking about?What hole?
You're must be fucking crazy or what?
I'm just commenting on a fictional story with fictional characters and you are attacking me on a personal level for having a different opinion than your ass?
Don't talk to me here anymore ok?

It's a figure of speech. Chill.

No you fuckin chill.You are immature as fuck.Ignoring the fact that there are other people with different interpretation and opinions than you.And you are super insecure and so narrow minded.
Immediately assuming that people who don't fucking like "Touken" are all "certain group of people who ship something different".
Don't be so fast at judging people,especially on their opinion on fictional stuff.And you must think you are the only one who is smart and can see right through internet comments.
Anyways I won't continue this.
Just some advice.Don't assume things about people,respect them and be more open minded while analyzing fictional stories and characters since you are into it.
OK?
Idc if it's "just a figure of speech" that phrase is extremely offensive where am from.
just don't say bullshit without thinking or considering yourself as someone special who is right about everything and knows everything.
you know nothing and you are nothing.
Seriously im so tired of kids like you.
Your "group of people" in every social media assuming something about other people based on one single opinion and putting them in a category.Putting labels on people.
Stop it.
Do you think it's just fucking random that Ishida made Touka and Kaneki fuck suddenly out of nowhere while Kaneki was thinking Hide and how much he misses him?And right away Touka gets knocked up and right away out of nowhere Hide suddenly appears saying that he loves Kaneki.

Everyone is right to think whatever the hell they want.Ishida himself has given everyone that right.
By messing up with everyone and everything.
One last thing.Your double standards are unbelievable.It's ok to hate on Furuta but not ok to hate on Touka for whatever reason.
Think objectively for a bit and not based on what you like or hate personally.
People have the right to hate on Furuta for his mistakes and actions but Touka and Kaneki are no different or better than him.

Kaneki and Touka also made mistakes and caused devastation.For God's shake they are fucking cannibalistic monsters humanity's enemies.They have killed and eaten people.They will continue to do so.So will their child.Kaneki is not a king.He killed thousands of people including women and children.In the end it was his own decision.His will.His power to become the dragon.
So why shouldn't anyone hate on Touka and Kaneki?
And in the end of the day Furuta just wants to eliminate all those monsters.If his reasons and ways are not ideal and if his intentions don't come out of love for humanity it doesn't matter.
Kaneki and Touka have hurt and sacrifised more people for their egotistical reasons.
Just think a little bit ok?
Bye!

Yeah, there's something wrong with you to get that upset when all I said was to chill and my analogy of "bigger hole". Like, why are you cursing? You can have a intellectual conversation/debate without all the profanity.

Nah you weren't up for an intellectual conversation.All you did was say bullshit like "stop talking" that means that you don't respect other peoples opinions.You just immediately judge them as "a certain group" because they have a different opinion than yours.
Look at your reply.Think a bit better.You were completely wrong.
And I insist.Furuta,Touka and Kaneki are equally wrong and messed up.They are all murderers.Nobody deserves more hate than the other.If you say that Fururta deserves hate but Kaneki and Touka and all the ghouls who are literally human eating monsters don't deserve hate,you have double standards and you are not being fair at all.
That was my point from the very beginning.

The conversation was going well but went downhill right away. Good thing I slept lol. Even if you Akira has your opinion regarding Touken, you still fall under those who share the same opinion but with a different reason. Some for ships some for the same reasons as yours.

I guess you never got from the TG or the first few chapters TGRE that this is not just ghouls and gore. Characters are written to grow. The series actually has a heart or warmth and it's not because there's a couple who banged and now expecting a baby but because the characters are learning and changing from experiences, destroying and building themselves to better themselves.TG's universe is not written in one plane just for the sake of shock factor and plot twists.
And Touka, she serves as foundation/pillar for ghouls who do not to pillage anymore and continue to self-loathe. She is the living Yoshimura, if that is not important then where have you been in the last 200 chapters.
There are a lot of characters who are left behind, appearance and on plot, like Seidou, Amon etc but that's because chapters are freaking short and it takes time to finish a scene or ark before moving next to another. But they are there. They have a purpose to the plot because Ishida likes to go deep in his TG universe.

*do not WANT to pillage anymore* Sorry I was writing this while standing in the bus going to work.
Anyway, just to add, helping ghouls to live out of actively killing another individual is in line with ghouls are actually humans (as in in the last 4 pages of the current chapter). Well she's actually helping Kaneki, since he is the "hero" /face of the ghouls, but behind him is Touka who drives Kaneki to do his job, because left alone he wouldn't have enough conviction to be one. This is also in line with Touka's issues way back in TG. Can't quote what she said, my memory's bad but the gist is that she has questioned why humans have it better while ghouls have to suffer when both are just trying to live.

Character pay offs go way back so connecting the dots is very important and thus Touka continues to be a relevant character.

You and your friend made my comment all about Touken and i don't care about them at all.
The reason why i continued this was because that person said my favorite character deserves hate but Kaneki and Touka don't.And lots of ignorant people were annoyed by Furuta appearing again in the series.
The series was dead boring without Furuta.Good thing he is back so that the plot starts moving again.
All i see is complains about "touka fetus hate" but the only hate here is the unfair hate towards Furuta.I have yet to see any negative comments about Touka.I honestly think that her stans make things up.
Anyways.
Kaneki is not the central plot point of TG. He is not who this story is about. The history laid out in the series does not revolve around his thoughts and actions, he is passive.
This is Rize’s and Furuta’s story.Furuta was always pulling the strings.We just didn't know about it.
Ishida has an interesting way of writing.Most audiences are used to think in a very simplistic way, that the characters who appear the most must be the main ones.In the latest chapter it was revealed that this was never a story about the main character.It might be surprizing for some people but not me.
I knew it since chapter 101 when Furuta spoke about how importand Rize is.
Ishida made the audience think that Furuta was just a comic relief so that when everything would be revealed the shock would be bigger.

Oh and Tokyo Ghoul has always been all about plot twists and manipulation of the audience more than anything else.

Well you are not wrong about any of that. Not everyone understands what the meaning of protagonist and hero in terms of plot. I didn't too until I watched an analysis of Westworld, that characters deemed as villains can be written as protagonist yet they are not the hero nor the main character in the story. Protagonist means character that moves the plot forward and not always synonymous to main character or the good guy.

The plot is written as "seeing and experiencing the ghoul world through Kaneki" thus Kaneki is just another individual trying to ordinarily live his life, adapting and living, but other characters are piling up these responsibilities on him that he never really wanted. That's why he's being pushed over and thus deemed boring and passive. He doesn't see himself as a great and significant figure like Eto, Arima, Futura, Rize etc. Kaneki is in charge of representing the ghouls who need to find themselves, love and accept themselves amidst being a ghoul who the world despises. That's his part of the plot while the aforementioned other characters are in charge of plot twists and shock value. Actually making the franchise well-rounded than others of the same genre, horror and gore.

People have every right to hate on whoever they want for whatever reasons. Don't be salty just because your favourite character gets the hate while other characters don't as much. And it is pretty obvious why Furuta gets all the hate. He is the main villain and he is scheming to achieve his own goals. And don't tell me he is doing this for the sake of humanity because the guy most definitely has ulterior motives.
I am actually glad he is back, I missed him and he is one of my favourite characters, some of the most well-written villains, and I love him for his charisma. But he is still a villain and he will stay one.
Tokyo Ghoul was never about humans and how they cope with the world. It was about ghouls, it was about a boy who became a ghoul and became the part of both worlds. The manga is called Tokyo Ghoul for a reason. And please, don't degenerate ghouls into mere monsters because they are most definitely not. They are much more human than you think - they have emotions like humans, they have their own beliefes. I would dare to say they look more human than humans do. There are exceptions of course, those who purely enjoy in slaughtering humans just for fun, but there are humans like that too in the world too - who can be much more vile than ghouls are. Despite that, there are good ghouls, ghouls that want to live with humans in peace without both ends being in fear for their lives. And the point of the manga is exactly that - Ishida spent countless of chapters showing us how ghouls are, how they live, what they feel, just to kill them all in the end? No, he tried to show us how human they actually are and that despite being a human eating ''monsters'' they are, in the end, still human.
The manga was never about Furuta, it will never be about Rize. But it is about how humans and ghouls decided to help eachother and united together to face their common enemy - who was supposedly Kaneki, but it is in fact Rize and Furuta. Furuta won't win, same goes for Rize. Ghouls and humans together will prevail, but how many casualties will there be in the process, no one actually knows. All we are left to do is to wait and see.

Amen.

This story "was never about Furuta" yes.Because Tokyo Ghoul in its entirety was a story conceived written and directed by Furuta.Still everything is going according to Furutas plan.A new world will be created whether or not Furuta survives and claims his glory.
All humans are turning into ghouls without any resources nobody survives and the world is doomed.
Maybe we will get an ending like Neon genesis evangelion.Still Furuta is the most important character and a winner for me.
He did his thing.

Nope Kaneki doesn't represent all that.
He is lonely depressed and suicidal.He hates himself and his life and becoming a ghoul is still something he considers a curse.
However Kaneki has managed to adjust to a certain extent and keep his mind occupied by making his life all about others.
Its something mentioned in Tokyo Ghoul several times."If you dont feel motivated to live your life for yourself then find something to live for" "make your life about others".
Overall Kaneki hasn't changed a whole lot since the very beginning of the series.
He doesn't have what it takes to become a hero or anything.
He was never even anything special to begin with.Furuta says he was just a bystander,Kanou said he was just an experiment like all the others who failed.Kaneki isnt even the only half who was created by Rize.
He had always been just a foil.

Furuta is literally Tokyo Ghoul it self.
There wouldn't be a story without Furuta.
He is not just a character. A villain at that.Whoever hates on Furuta basically hates Tokyo Ghoul in its entirety.
Its not as simple as you think.

I just realized how fucked up my grammar is. I deeply apologize. I lack sleep, my mind is on throttle while writing them and I was commuting to work.

@Akira, I did say that TG is not JUST a story of twists but it is definitely about that, too.

Anyway, the reason Kaneki is the main character, not Furuta, Rize or Eto (my top three protagonists, Arima, too but he didn't have much 'screen' time) is because the ordinary ghouls, the not so great ones, the battered, abused and oppressed ones need to prevail and the protagonists are working hard to lift them out of the underworld. Ishida took Kaneki's POV because he wants us to feel what it means and feels being a ghoul. We are not great nor extraordinary, we are just any other human who just happens to be feeding on human flesh/blood. Which is the point of Touken.

Their relationship development was never 'in your face' or blatantly obvious because this is not shoujo or any other romance genre. Their development was written like any other normal and real life romance that develops gradually and next thing you know, you're already in love. But the development and chemistry were there way back, it was just never as obvious and cliché as the typical romance series.

Can y'all like calm down it ain't that serious we can all have different opinions my friend is in love with Furuta and hates Kaneki and I'm kinda the opposite it doesn't reallt matter we still like the same thing

Uhm exactly what I just said but yours was more like "everything wrong about Kaneki Ken".
Like I said, Ishida's perspective is that readers follow a normal character. He is not supposed to be great. Protagonists are great characters because they move the plot forward. Typical of shounen wherein your main character (MC) leads the story on and side characters learn or take something from the MC.

Furuta and others are protagonists, they move the plot forward. Other characters take things from them or experience things because of them. Kaneki, our MC, is the receiver of the protagonists' actions, instead of the other way around.

You keep on degrading Kaneki as a failure of a main character but the thing is, it was designed to be like this. It's a writing style. Shifting the POV from the usual. We usually lump the terms protagonist, hero, good guy and MC into one character but Ishida is breaking that standard by separating those terms to Kaneki and Furuta. Hero - the guy who saves the day - still associated to Kaneki because it is expected that he will save ghouls.

You're expecting MC to be smart and always will make ways to get out of the situation and save the day but Ishida made a depressing and helpless MC because (my intake) his struggles will connect more to the ghouls and for the readers who experience shit from day to day. Thus as a reader, you are immersed on the ghoul life than if you are following an MC who gets to succeed on the struggles they face. Shounen or typical MCs give a sense of power or control because they win at the end of a fight. As a reader, it's something you don't always experience IRL thus you are taken in an AU while reading the story, thinking "what if I am this MC?" this is empowering you as a reader, at least while reading. Kaneki isn't like that but just like any other real life human you learn by experience. Yes it has taken this long but that's because he still hasn't fully grasped his identity as a ghoul, until he finally kills humans, because he values human life. If you were Kaneki, you might be also finding yourself being stubborn on seeing that killing ghouls and humans are no different.

Kaneki is being (taking forever) honed to become a hero, he is not written as THE hero.
Sorry but your argument is actually agreeing with my explanation about protags and MC but not seeing why it was written this way.

Nothing wrong with loving Furuta and hating on Kaneki, though I love both. But let us make it clear why Kaneki is a good main character.

Touken had no development. It doesn't matter if it's a shonen.I have read other shonen with that development
An example is Fullmetal Alchemist.
Even Amon and Akira Mado have more development than Touken within Tokyo Ghoul
Touka and Kaneki never really had the time to actually trully know each other on any level.They have spend more time away from each other than together and the ground their relationship is based is wrong in the first place.
Touka like Kaneki is deprived of any love and affection in her life.Even her brother hates her and has tried to kill her.
Touka might also be depressed and self loathing so just like Kaneki she is simply trying to occupy her mind and her existence with someone else.
Two damaged ghouls cling to each other because they are desperate and have no other choice basically.
The way their relationship was executed was bs too.
They simply met again after not having seen each other for years (the last time they saw each other Touka beat the crap out of Kaneki because he never cared about her specifically or put her as his priority ever)
Sex and pregnancy right away its obvious that Ishida simply just used that cliche trope of main female mc and main male mc should be together.
That's it.
They never had time together,they never totally learned or experienced each other as a couple and they are starting a family right away.
That is not a good development for a couple.Its just like the toxic couples that dont make sense (like SasuSaku) just for the sake of the franchise.
You can be one of the people who dont have a problem with tropes like that.
But actually to claim that Touken had even the slightest development and are in love I just call bullshit.
They are both depressed self loathing individuals who are desperate for something to keep their minds occupied and not become even more self destructive.
To save themselves they rushed in that "relationship" that is were their "relationship" is built on.
That is not love.

Kaneki and Touka are exactly like they were in the beginning. They haven't changed or grown in the process of this story.The only changes are Kaneki's body and strength as a ghoul but not his personality.
Touka on the other hand hasn't had any development.Not in character,not in power and abilities either.
She even left school all her dreams and ambitions for a future just to be a mother and a wife.
And they definitely haven't changed or become happier because of each other.
They are very awkward around each other still no fundamental communication and it almost feels like Touka slept with Kaneki out of pity and desperation and Kaneki is obligated to take responsibility.
If they had matured they wouldn't have taken the selfish decision to bring a child who didn't chose to be a monster in a world that already hates it.
Touka's pregnancy is a handicap in the worst way.Even what she does know to supposedly help Kaneki aren't really effective plus she is constantly putting hers and her fetus life in danger.

Warning: TL fucking DR

FMA? Nope. If this is about plot movement, FMA has the typical MC. Edward had a purpose and seeks his ways to accomplish that purpose, thus he is a character that moves the plot forward, the hero/MC AND the protagonist.

Time depends on people. There are those who developed their relationship in x number of years before becoming a couple while there are those who did it in months time. They met at their worst but they met again with the other one more mature. Yes not mature enough, still has issues but has had made mature decisions than the other. The other one, well he has how many identities again?

Self-loathing: Kaneki, yes. How can he change that easily? He thought he killed Hide, his memories wiped out then had to take care of an entire race right after he got his memories back. He did not have time to breathe.
Touka, yes she's sad about Yoriko but was she actively loathes herself and acts that consequently leads to self-destruction pre-chapter 125? She had to stand strong and instead of seeking destruction, she emulated Yoshimura's values, for Kaneki and other ghouls, if possible. She let go of her strong facade one time (125) and that's it, never happened again. And is it logical to continue studying when they have nothing? Really? As if she gave those up to get banged up. That argument is just illogical. Please recall what happened and the impact of losing your home and your pillar at the same time. Besides there's a timeskip. We don't know how she managed to start a café without going to school. No need to spoon-feed that.

Damaged people: Kaneki, maybe. Touka was not at :Re. She stopped forcing herself to be someone she will never be, thus her maturity. So it's not really as toxic because Touka is stable and became a strong foundation for Kaneki. It's not even a codependent relationship, more like obsessive from Kaneki, no, it was a mantra to set a goal for himself (144). It would have been toxic if they became a couple and banged in TG1 but Touka was a different person in :RE.

Sex and pregnancy. It's not the last chapter or far from ending yet so it doesn't fall under that trope. I recently found out about that trope thanks to Gintama. Accident or planned pregnancy but the sex was indeed a surprise but do we really have to be prepared for it? It's like any other Western show I have seen, characters banging out of exhilaration and/or sadness. They needed to comfort each other, is that so wrong? They're adults already. If this wasn't TG, would you have the same reaction? I wonder. Mangas do not have music and filters to aid the execution of brewing romance to imply the those nuances.

I don't want to explain how they complemented each other's disabilities/issues without being toxic because I am tired. Lol. But essentially it's being accepted and supported by a/an ghoul/ex-human.

They are happy in their own world (132). Just between the two of them. Kaneki developed, in terms of plot, he now has a goal plus (renewed) principles like how a protagonist should, but he's still asleep for now. Let's see what happens after waking up. Touka became a truly strong person, not just pretending to be one, and that strength is kept pounded to the test. She's always calculative and on-guard about becoming vulnerable. So let's see when she'll breakdown.

They don't talk a lot because they are both preventing to be too vulnerable because they are each other's weakness and strength. But they are communicating, non-verbally. They didn't need many words to understand each other (131).

They changed but they were subtle and not as ground breaking as a plot twist but they were not anyless important. You either missed or refused to see them. I don't know how anyone will read this because it's fucking long, I wouldn't. You can hate Kaneki all you want because he's a sissy but I disagree that he hasn't changed, that he is not a good main character, nor that he and Touka were poorly written.

PS. Congrats if you read all of this.

Disclaimer: I am not a Touken shipper pre-chapter 125 nor was I shipping anyone (well Amon and Akira they were written typically like a couple) but I was not surprised about their developement. Sex, yes, did not expect Ishida would dedicate a whole chapter for it but I am not surprised it happened. Thus, I am not defending them because I am a hardcore shipper. I just saw it happening.