seungho's hoe's Topics (15)

Exactly. Coercion, threats and sexual assault does not equal rape. Even if Dan takes back his consent, it's too late for him as he's already signed the contract. No amount of refusing, crying or pain will cancel out his consent. That is how that works. Jaekyung is not a rapist confirmed.

They’re trolls. Not sure if it’s a group of people or one person with multiple accounts. I check the comments every few weeks to see when Jinx might update and they’re constantly spewing nonsense. It’d be in your best interest to block them.

There are no trolls - it is cyberstalkers and their targets, with multiple users involved on both sides.

It's easy to be seen as a troll when people don't take the time to understand that we are being actively targeted. The first reply here is from a cyberstalker. I've had to change my name about 30 times, and each time, they copy it to spread falsehoods as they troll to harm everyone. This is targeted harassment. Every time we, the targets, try to speak about this story, they show up to silence us.

We’re standing our ground because anyone with a different perspective could be next. We’re here to protect others, and I hope that those dismissing this as mere trolling will see the truth.

The above user is a confirmed predator and cyberstalker.

My role is to warn everyone about the cyberstalkers. My friends and I have been trying to create a safe environment here to where all opinions are welcomed, and we want to clarify that we have no part in the toxicity on this page—it occurs regardless of our presence.

Since you hold a different viewpoint, you may become a target, as they tend to target perspectives they dislike. We attempted to resolve the situation, but they insist we label it as rape or remain silent. We stand to protect people like you.

Moving this conversation to a different platform wouldn't help remove this toxicity. We have not been engaging with them; our focus has been on warning others. I want to prevent anyone else from getting dragged into this, which is why I speak out.

I am not part of the main group. I seen what was happening and I joined to defend people who have been defending Jinx fans and people with opinions like you for months. It’s not just a few individuals—it’s a widespread issue. The group behind this is everywhere on this site.

Warning About Cyberstalking
[TM joined on 1/26/20] September 23, 2024 8:36 pm is a cyberstalker. And proved they are not trolls as they impersonate their targets and pretend to be them with falsehoods to make their targets look bad.
That is not trolling. It is harassment and cyberstalking.

As the real [TM joined on 1/26/20] said.
I want to bring attention to an ongoing issue of cyberstalking in this community. Cyberstalkers often impersonate others and spread misinformation to manipulate and harass individuals. Please be vigilant when interacting with users and verify their identities. If you suspect someone is engaging in cyberstalking or impersonation, and avoid engaging with them. Your safety and well-being are important!

That's disturbing to read. I haven't the older comments here so I don't know ╮(￣▽￣)╭ I'm a new user

The real cancerous usernames are mine and my alt accounts'.

are you unable to contact mangago team for thus?

If I contact them, they will ban me first instead of the trolls. They will find out how I groomed minors, impersonated and harassed users who didn't agree with me and only start arguing with people with the usage of chatgpt.

wait you actually groomed minors?

but isn't what you've done... troubling indeed?

and idk if it was your account or you other account but i edited my comment and it made your comment disappear. it was on my other seungho's hoe comment... sorry

I'm concerned about the individual you're communicating with—they are not who they claim to be. Engaging with them only feeds their desire for attention while they harm others, including you. This person is a cyberstalker, and we strongly disapprove of their behavior. We want to clarify that we have no affiliation with them.

It's important to note that they aren't merely trolling. None of the targets involved considers them a troll. My friend won't say, "The real cancerous usernames are mine and my alt accounts." They have two accounts, with the first one unknown to the cyberstalkers. This individual tries to conflate multiple people into one, using fake accounts to impersonate others and create confusion with falsehoods.

Their motives seem deeply troubling; they appear desperate to insert themes of rape into the narratives, which serves to silence differing opinions. This tactic is not only disturbing but also a form of gaslighting. Please be cautious and stay aware of their manipulative tactics.

That's the cyberstalker of mine above. You'd quickly recognize him from his obsession with me and Chatgpt. He adds nothing of value.

But that was literally months ago. I'm ashamed of being exposed.

this is confusing and tiring so I'll just stay silent and mind my own business

that doesn't resolve anything

It is. I know. And it can get more confusing. I have experienced this since March. A few others have experienced this since February.

i wont ask for details but i hope you guys resolve your matters on some other platform as mangago is a safe place and it might get toxic for some people even it was unintentional from your side.
only few of you ars involved i think and others just got dragged like me and then they left eventually as they saw this is not it.

as these are your personal issues at this point

My role is to warn everyone about the cyberstalkers. My friends and I have been trying to create a safe environment here to where all opinions are welcomed, and we want to clarify that we have no part in the toxicity on this page—it occurs regardless of our presence.

Since you hold a different viewpoint, you may become a target, as they tend to target perspectives they dislike. We attempted to resolve the situation, but they insist we label it as rape or remain silent. We stand to protect people like you.

Moving this conversation to a different platform wouldn't help remove this toxicity. We have not been engaging with them; our focus has been on warning others. I want to prevent anyone else from getting dragged into this, which is why I speak out.

I am not part of the main group. I seen what was happening and I joined to defend people who have been defending Jinx fans and people with opinions like you for months. It’s not just a few individuals—it’s a widespread issue. The group behind this is everywhere on this site.

I'll leave jinx then.. I'm not even a fan of it anyways

You were supposed to care about me and my alt accounts who are being impersonated because I may have groomed some teens and impersonated others myself.

Warning About Cyberstalking
[TM joined on 1/26/20] September 23, 2024 8:37 pm is a cyberstalker. Look at the profiles. Two different people with two different accounts.

As the real [TM joined on 1/26/20] said.
I want to bring attention to an ongoing issue of cyberstalking in this community. Cyberstalkers often impersonate others and spread misinformation to manipulate and harass individuals. Please be vigilant when interacting with users and verify their identities. If you suspect someone is engaging in cyberstalking or impersonation, and avoid engaging with them. Your safety and well-being are important!

This is the real one who has not responded to the OP.

This is the real TM. The other TM is Morning diamonds. He is ashamed to talk in his main because he has been caught for using alts to support himself from a different account.

I wasn't going to respond to you and I stepped back .........


I understand the decision to step back, especially when facing cyberstalkers who are impersonating their targets to silence them and others. However, it's disheartening to see that this allows them to win and gain more control over harming others to keep this a toxic page. It is not just this page that is unsafe. it is a larger issue as this harassment is on the whole site.
I hope that we can voice our thoughts without the fear of harassment.
The real TM and MD have not responded in months. TM and MD are two different people. They defending many people on here from haters. Now the haters who want to harm others are impersonating them and spreading falsehoods as they can attack others.
Tm, he has one account. MD has two but can't log into her first one.

When I said it could get more confusing. Now they are impersonating our new names when it goes against their beliefs or they are saying their cyberstalking serves no purpose now. MD had 4 accounts impersonating her but one was defending her, the rest were cyberstalkers.
You can tell by what we say who is a cyberstalker or the target. It is mocking, attacking or trying to degrade others including you it is a cyberstalker pretending to be us as they try to defame us and silence us.

WTH???? YOU GROOMED MINORS???????

Oh okay, I kinda get it now. Sorry for lashing out in confusion. Hope it will get resolved soon. Ask the admin of this website to help resolve the issue. Sorry that's happening to you. I'm a reader from the official website so it's my first time here. Hope you're okay

Don't bother with those ppl, they are just kids (most of them admitted still going to school brah). Yeah coz even if you're right they won't give it to you. I think those ppl only read 10 yaois max and have the guts to give their fked up opinions

Exactly! I've been thinking the same thing. Yeah, Jaekyung has anger issues and he is rough in bed, but that's it. And like you said, they have a contract which they both agreed on. Dan knew exactly what he was getting himself into.

that's right... jaekyung treats dan bad but dan isn't a kid.. he's 30 so he knows what's wrong what's right... he needed money so he agreed... jaekyung didn't force the deal or sex on him or manipulate dan using his granny... like tell me one thing that jaekyung did to dan that's wrong and on which dan didnt agree on... dan is nice and in love and all but dan knew jaekyung's personality before the contract was even made... it's give and take
. that doesn't make jaekyung most toxic top to ever exist in yaoi

Never speak again…You’re genuinely fucked up in the brain.

right like these people vote sad world we live in

That is such an unnecessary and immature thing to say. Just because someone has a different opinion than you, doesn't mean that there is something wrong with them.

Look at this. Nothing constructive to say bruuh gtfo here pls

You just don't understand the world u live in, that's what is so sad

aye are you offering me 10mil dollars for that? no right? then what right do you have to tell me what to do

brotha I'm talking about illegal stuff here.. list any one thing jaekyung did illegal to dan

There’s no need for insults. We’re all here to discuss a fictional story and share our thoughts, even if we don’t always agree. It’s important to respect different opinions rather than resort to personal attacks, which only reflect poorly on the person making them. Silencing others who are simply speaking their truth isn't constructive. In fact, that kind of behavior is worse than anything Jaekyung did in the story.

Sad would we love in when people are treated poorly for speaking the truth. Your personal attacks reflect you and your ignorance.

This was the first comment I read. I had an answer but I see you meant something a little differently “like tell me one thing that jaekyung did to dan that's wrong and on which dan didnt agree on... ”.

What I was going to say with how I first interpreted it: What is happening is a form of prostitution and there is some coercion (manipulation) involved but it depends on the country and jurisdiction.
And now with what you are asking ………
My answer to this:
(Again I think it is off from your question.)
Dan doesn’t know it but chapter 34.

Bringing in a third party without the Dan’s knowledge or consent would violate his rights and privacy. This could also fall under voyeurism, sexual exploitation, or other criminal offenses, depending on the laws in the specific region.
it would likely be considered illegal and deeply unethical due to the violation of consent.

Orrrr. simply not consensual? What's the word for it.... rape? Oh nooooo

Morning Diamonds who joined 10/7/23 says Jinx isn’t rape.

Look at the profiles. The comment posted at September 18, 2024 at 12:16 am isn’t me.



**Attention: Cyberstalking Alert**

Please be aware that there are individuals engaging in cyberstalking and identity theft within this community. They are copying names and spreading misinformation to discredit others and avoid discussing the actual content of the story. We do not condone or tolerate these actions. Let’s focus on constructive discussions and respect each other's viewpoints rather than engaging in or supporting such harmful behavior.

speaking the truth? exactly whats truthful about anything they said, it was all opinionated. everything they said was grossly ignorant if anything, jinx is a disgusting romanticized version of abuse and rape. this was the purpose of those scenes with jaekyung and dan, where dan is clearly scared. this isnt the first time mingwa has made a abuser x vicitim like story.

so yes, i can comment on their person based on the inhumane ideas they share on a public forum. you obviously felt insulted by my comment directed towards them so maybe you should sit back and reflect.

im just going to ignore your comment because youre obviously incompetent and explaining anything to you would be redundant. one day youll realize the severity of all of this and eat your own words.

Your comments are highly opinionated and reflect personal views rather than objective facts. The original poster was more objective in their analysis. While interpretations of Jinx can vary, calling it a romanticized version of abuse and rape is a subjective interpretation that the actual story does not support.

The relationship between Jaekyung and Dan is complex and transitional, and they were never portrayed as lovers or boyfriends. Dan's fear in the story does not automatically equate to abuse or rape. Let's focus on discussing the actual content of Jinx rather than relying on biased interpretations. I will not be gaslighted into accepting a narrative that doesn’t align with the story’s details or the false narrative about the op.

Additionally, someone is pretending to be me and engaging in cyberstalking. This behavior is unacceptable and reflects their inability to handle differing opinions.
.

No, you can't comment on someone's character based on differing opinions shared in a public forum. If anyone is being inhumane, it seems to be reflected in your approach. It's clear you're deflecting and projecting your own feelings. Perhaps you should reflect on your own responses, as it appears you're the one feeling insulted.

Thanks for proving my point.

If anyone is being inhumane, it seems to be reflected in your approach. It's clear you're deflecting and projecting your own feelings. Perhaps you should reflect on your own responses, as it appears you're the one feeling insulted.

ive come to find most of your comments are ai generated, which is why you can reply in a fast succession. not sure what ur deal is as ive seen multiple of ur comments stating that "jaekyung is an angel" which is a personal bias and opinion and your alleged stalker just copies the same things you say.

perhaps your right, its insulting as a sa victim to see everyone water down the severe themes in jinx, but what you said is hypocritical as op is also stating their opinions so im inclined to share mine.

No. I am writing the messages. Since you said that, that is a red flag.

I have never said Jaekyung was an angel. That is the cyberstalker saying weird things as the copied me to make me look bad but it reflects poorly on them.

And my cyberstalker does copy what I said sometimes but they have not today (yet). So look at the profile before making more false accusations.

I am a survivor of sexual assault, and it’s frustrating to see people exaggerate and distort what happens in jinx. Some are overly critical of the story, even claiming Jaekyung beat Dan, which never happened as the loan sharks did that. Nothing I’ve said is hypocritical, and it’s concerning that you're resorting to personal attacks rather than focusing on the actual story. Sharing opinions and facts about a story is one thing, but personal attacks are not opinions—they're harmful.

my ai checker on my computer flagged like half of you comments as ai whether it you or your twin i have no idea, when i click on ur supposed stalkers account it takes me to yours

i will start this message by saying this is my opinion so dont mince my words, i dont know how you deal with anything as a survivor and everyone copes differently but if you genuinely believe jinx has no sexual violence then i strongly suggest you seek out professional help and i say that with no malicious intent

you keep responding with shallow takes on what im saying so if youd like further proof LABY made a video on youtube explaining the topic at hand and they explained it in a much easier fashion with proof. not "opinionated"

I read the first comment again after a comment against it.
The OP expressed their confusion and shared their experience with reading similar stories. They're accurate in saying Jaekyung is like a green flag compared to other toxic characters. This is a more watered-down story compared to others in the same genre.

While the definition of rape can be more nuanced, especially with issues like consent and the removal of a condom without consent. I am saying there are forms of rape that don’t fit the OP’s definition.

Dan agrees to the arrangement multiple times throughout the story. Jaekyung does pay Dan for sex, which is referenced often, and Dan agrees and allows it—this is consistent with the story's events.

The transactional nature of their relationship could be considered prostitution, which may be illegal, (it is illegal where I live), but Jaekyung consistently gives Dan choices, telling him twice in their first encounter that he could leave. Dan, being 29, chose to stay because he agreed and needed the money (and personal interests can be added). The claim that Jaekyung isn’t decent is valid, and they are right with calling him more toxic than how he is portrayed in the stories doesn’t hold up to claims. The OP is correct that some are exaggerating his actions or making claims that aren’t true.

I don’t see how OP’s comment is opinionated or ignorant when it’s based on facts from the story and other stories.

Ai isn’t writing my responses.

AI-generated text refers to completely automated responses where the AI creates content from scratch, without user input or specific direction.
That isn’t happening.
There are two profiles here that looks like mine. I don’t know if they are using ai responses. I try not to read their comments.

In my comment to Seungo’s hoe, which is my third comment

“What I was going to say with how I first interpreted it: What is happening is a form of prostitution and there is some coercion (manipulation) involved but it depends on the country and jurisdiction.
And now with what you are asking ………
My answer to this:
(Again I think it is off from your question.)
Dan doesn’t know it but chapter 34.

Bringing in a third party without the Dan’s knowledge or consent would violate his rights and privacy. This could also fall under voyeurism, sexual exploitation, or other criminal offenses, depending on the laws in the specific region.
it would likely be considered illegal and deeply unethical due to the violation of consent.”


Just because I say there is no rape in Jinx doesn’t mean I don’t acknowledge the presence of sexual violence. There is a valid interpretation that others may see it differently in a fictional story. However, claiming people who see no sexual violence in the story need professional help is an attempt to discredit them, which isn’t fair or constructive.

Shallow takes? That is you judging you, right?

About Laby’s video.

I am not watching trash. She is a hater and that thing is biased. She thinks it is rape. Someone else said she said thinks it is Stockholm Syndrome on here. It can’t and won’t be Stockholm Syndrome.

"one day youll realize the severity of all of this" this made me laugh XDDDD THIS is what's gonna happen to u when you'll grow up a little more soon my kid

This is genuinely a weird way to think I am not even joking it’s one thing to rationalize toxic traits but to actually try to excuse rape as a mere plot or flaw is disturbing and baffling.you can like this fictional character but do not create a new definition for rape anything done without your consent whether you said yes other times or not whether you are in a relationship or not is rape.please keep that in mind.

No one is excusing rape. There is no rape depicted in the story.

It's concerning to see such a fixation on labeling the story as rape without engaging with its actual content. Refusing to consider the details or alternative perspectives indicates a lack of willingness to have a constructive discussion. The story’s content and legal definitions do not support the claim of rape. It’s important to respect the narrative and recognize that differing viewpoints should be based on facts rather than personal bias. If you choose not to engage with the specifics, it limits the potential for meaningful dialogue.

What's going on in your heads? what you guys don't understand is NONE IS EXCUSING RAPE. Why are you talking about "rationalizing" when you're reading a fictional story to precisely evade reality?

Is it not excusing rape when you say a character already signed a contract therefore it does not matter whether he says stop because he signed up for this ? is that not making up excuses?.i know this is fiction but as I said excusing toxic traits or complex behaviors from characters is normal nor is it weird but once you start excusing rape as mere flaw for a character!!!.you can like this manhua but don’t act as if there were not multiple times where he said stop or wait or that he did not want to do this.

Yes I'm excusing toxic behaviors precisely because it's a fiction what's the problem? As you want if it's rape then it is, I'm not gonna talk about that, but what are u gonna do about it exactly? Call 911?

Thank you for proving my point that anybody who genuinely enjoys this has no reading comprehension I almost had a stroke trying to understand what you replied with but nonetheless thank you

Bruuuh I see u did understand my point at all, was my reply a nonetheless or just are u brainless, I wonder

Stfu your disgusting and you need to face it…

Want something constructive? Yall are genuine predators.

Lil bro your name is “seungho’s hoe” you’re a whole different problem

*you're

Your behavior undermines your attacks on others; by demeaning others, you become the very thing you claim to despise aka what you are calling them. You are projecting yourself here.

I'm just saying dan agreed on wtv jaekyung did... he agreed on it on his own free will... that's the only thing I'm trynna say.. like other toxic guys do stuff like locking in the other person and raping them continuously and without their consent... that's what I'm saying while saying illegal...

I know this may seem confusing but the other TM and Morning diamonds are fake. I am the real.

Just a heads up you are responding to [ https://www.mangago.zone/home/people/3699209/home/] who was [Morning Diamonds 10/7 is right ] and now [MD joined on 10/7/23 is right] because their name was copied by cyberstalkers


The one that commented after your comment [ https://www.mangago.zone/home/people/3704977/home/' was the cyberstalker, not my friend.


Please be cautious and aware of their intentions. It's important to verify who you're engaging with in this situation.

and when did dan didnt consent to jaekyung's deals? ( except ch 34 where the actor saw them doing it- i agree that jaekyung making that actor purposely look at them in the course is wrong)

actually jaekyung clearly mentioned in the start of their deal that he will do the sex whenever however and wherever he likes... and dan clearly heard that and still agreed on it... one more thing that before the deal dan and jaekyung did have sex for that 5 grand.. dan clearly saw how jaekyung does it before agreeing on the contract and still agreed knowing it beforehand how jaekyung will have sex

that is not how you logically prove your point

how is my name even involved here... and i will even say that the seungho in season 1 is what you call toxic and rape...

okay:)

Can we walk through a hypothetical real quick so that we can make sure we have the same understanding of what’s been happening in this manhwa and how it applies to consent? I’m going to ask you a series of questions and I won’t immediately get to the point until we run through everything. Please take this at good faith—like, don’t just say “oh, I wouldn’t do xyz in the first place” without cause (unless you really feel it’s relevant).

Like let’s start here: let’s say I call you on the phone and I tell you we’re going to watch a movie together, and that you should come stop by my apartment so we can watch. You say it’s a long ways away and that you’re also kind of hungry and want dinner first, and I tell you I’ll give you dinner when you come over. When you get over, though, I say that actually, we’re going to play a video game. I don’t have any movies for us to watch, nor do I want to actually watch a movie, nor did I ever intend for us to watch a movie. I just wanted to get you over to my apartment so we could play video games.

In this scenario, did I or did I not lie to you about what we’d be doing together at my apartment?

Thank you. My cyberstalker's account had been created after mine.

you lied... ( I'd like to add something... if you're taking it like movies and games then it means i have a choice to either play games or go back... you're gonna give me a choice.)

but i believe you should resolve your problems soon as it'll only create confusions and misunderstandings

No need. The one yelling about Jinx containing no rape and just being a wilfully ignorant rape defender is the imposter.

He will try and discredit me again. Just watch. He's been cyberstalking me for a year and I know all about his childish tactics.

then please refrain from unintentionally including other people in it. your stalker follows your comments and replies so i belive you should solve your stalker problem first and then reply to people online as that stalker will follow you to other people's comment section

You are correct. I will leave this comment thread. The ones who will keep talking claiming to be ''me'' and say I am the ''cyberstalker'' are them. They are obsessed.

thanks for taking my words as they are and not taking them the way you like... people here minced my words and made their whole another argument

Okay, I agree that I did lie. Let's go to the next part, because I think it will help address your addition—that you have the choice to play games or go back home.

So you're at my apartment now, and I've said that instead of movies, we're going to play games. And actually, my bad for adding this detail in late—when you first got to my apartment, you see that I'm in an argument with someone else I was playing games with. The argument is really heated. I threaten to hunt that person down and beat the shit out of that person if they ever fuck with me again, and I even end up throwing something in the midst of it, or pushing that other person during the argument, before that other person leaves.

So back to the present moment. You don't want to play games, and you didn't think that you were going to come to play games. You wanted to eat something and watch a movie with me. You know you're going to have a hard time finding something to eat, now, too, because you don't have food at home, and now you can't go out and buy something to eat because all the corner-stores are closed. You tell me that you don't want to play games. I tell you that you're free to leave, but I will not give you the food that I'd previously promised to give you—the food that I said I would give you if you came over to my apartment in the first place.

I'll ask a few questions here. 1) Again, did I or did I not lie about what would happen when you got to my apartment? 2) You do have the choice to leave, but would you feel safe, free, and comfortable leaving after you saw me threaten to find and beat up another person right in front of you? Someone who I had also been playing games with? 3) Would you feel safe, free, and comfortable leaving, knowing that if you leave, you might not be able to eat until the next morning, and I'm the only person who can give you a substantial amount of food right now?

i saw that you were not heated at first but the other person started saying bs about you and only then you got agitated.
you lied. i would not feel comfortable but when i said i don't want to stay and i wanna leave you were ready to let me leave peacefully. and if i feel that staying with you will be more harmful then leaving then i will surely leave.
i think starving is different than having sexual intercourse but i will still reply according to the manhwa but in the words of your given situation.
i will stay if it's do or die situation without food. but i will leave once I'm full. and I've seen your tactics now so i wont involve with you any further

The main targets of this individual are TM and MD. TM has not responded since March, while MD has been silent since May. The targets have made genuine efforts to communicate, seeking to understand and resolve issues. They’ve tried to correct misinformation and even extended forgiveness, but the harassment continues.

These individuals are cyberstalkers, resorting to these tactics because TM and his friends stand up to them. They are conflating me and my friend with TM and MD, which is a clear intimidation tactic. Anyone with a differing opinion is at risk of harassment, as they aim to discredit their targets. Their behavior shows no signs of stopping, and they will involve anyone they can in their efforts.
They are pretending that we are stalking them as a way to deflect attention from their own actions. By falsely portraying us as the aggressors, they attempt to manipulate the narrative and discredit our valid concerns. This tactic is a common form of gaslighting, aimed at creating confusion and fear among their targets. It's important to recognize this strategy for what it is and to remain aware of their deceptive tactics.

md thinking people actually gaf about you being impersonated, please feed me more of your outbursts

I did not specify whether or not the person had said shit about me before I began threatening to hunt them down and beat the shit out of them, throwing things at them, and/or pushing them around. You walked in and we were in the midst of it. Even then, can I ask—is it a reasonable reaction for me to threaten that person's safety and life? Wouldn't you be concerned about my temper?

I agree though, I did lie to you. I also agree that I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving that situation. Can you explain a bit of why YOU might not feel comfortable? For me, personally, I would be kind of worried about getting beat up by this person. And I personally don't think I would be able to trust that I could refuse them or leave without coming to some type of harm, because this person has already lied to me before, and seems to have an intense temper, based off of what I've seen of them. I think I'd still leave, but I would be pretty scared to leave, because I don't want to get beat up!

We'll get to the starving part soon but, yeah—I agree, I would also stay and try to put up with playing whatever video game, because I'm already really hungry and I can't really get much food anywhere else. And I agree, I'd probably leave after playing and eating, too. I also wouldn't want to get further involved with that person.

So let's actually get to the video game part. You said you would stay to eat, which means you now have to play a game with me. The thing is that I didn't tell you what game we'd be playing—I only said we would play a game, and that through playing the game, I would give you food. I decide we're going to play a horror game. The thing is that you hate horror games. They're gory, scary, they stress you out, and you know that if you play the game, you will probably end up having panic attacks and nightmares about it for the next week. You tell me that you'll still play a game with me, but that you would really, really prefer to play a different game. Something like a dating simulator. I ignore you and put a horror game on for us to play anyway. When you reiterate that you really don't want to play the horror game, or that you at least need some time to mentally prepare yourself to play, I say that you can leave, but I'll beat the shit out of you if you do.

You agreed to play a game with me—but does that mean that because you agreed to play A game with me, that you agreed to/should be expected to play ANY game with me? Especially one that you know will have lasting impacts on you? You agreed to play a game with me, but when I told you what game we'd be playing, did you or did you not express your discomfort with playing that particular (type of) game? Would you feel safe, comfortable, and free to just leave now, after I've directly threatened to beat you up if you tried to?

If you observe the individual you've been engaging with, who is pretending that their targets are stalking them, you'll notice that their tone shifted after I made a comment. Their main targets are TM and MD, and MD hasn't responded since May. They have incorrectly labeled me as MD, which highlights their obsession with her.

They’re attempting to gaslight you and portray themselves as victims, but it’s difficult for them to maintain that facade when their true goal is to harm others.

I'm so sorry that you're writing so much for me but tbh I'm tired of you and md and tm and morning something and whoever... i don't want to have headache just because of my opinion on some fiction. again I'm sorry that you had to write sm and had to invest so much time to help me understand your pov.
if i can clearly see that the longterm results is worse than short-term then i think obviously i would try to leave as soon as possible.

i will be afraid of getting beaten up but i would try to leave and run whenever i get a chance. i agreed because i needed something and because i was scared... but mainly because i needed something and i hope you keep the your story ditto to the jinx story as I don't think i would want to have conversation on a whole different story and approach.
and in jinx after dan saw that guy getting beaten up he still tried to leave after jaekyung clarified the situation for him. and surprisingly jaekyung was ready to let dan go without any harm but it was dan who needed money aka food urgently so he stayed. it was his compulsion to stay. jaekyung would not give a whole 5 grand

I want to apologize if my previous messages caused any confusion or frustration. My intention was to warn you so you wouldn’t be gaslit, not to give you a headache. I was trying to protect you.

You’re right in your opinions. To add, Jaekyung was going to let him go and call someone else, which suggests he doesn’t want to force anyone. It seems Jaekyung has a trigger and Dan did not trigger his response in the same way that the other guy did.

that ex of jaekyung imo clearly insulted jaekyung and a guy with jaekyung's temper won't take insults silently. dan is a super nice guy so he didn't agitate jaekyung. jaekyung has a bad personality but not that terrible that he will try to kill an innocent guy without any reason... the headaches are not from you but from your ongoing argument with tm and whoever. thankyou for you efforts sincerely :) ... really tysm.. but i don't like jinx or love jaekyung that I'll get gaslighted... I'll just leave jinx if it gets bothersome.. i left jinx after chap 20 got released as it was boring and cliche and i needed a break from yaoi.. i wanna explore the shounen ai and bromance now.. need some sweet cute stuff to heal my yaoi angst era

you're a sweet person so i actually hope this drama gets resolved for you and you have some peace <3 and thanks for bearing with me till the end...
have a nice day gurlie <3 ( dw my age is fake and I'm not actually 17.. keeping a young fake age online keeps hate comments and insults away to sone point :3 )

I'm sorry the conversation's been stressful, I can be more direct.

You said would stay because you'd be afraid to leave, and because you needed something. If someone does something because they are afraid of what will happen if they don't do it (whether because of a perceived threat or an ACTUAL threat), or because not doing that thing would result in something important to them being withheld from them, then they can't be said to have ACTUALLY consented to doing something. They were pressured, or coerced, into doing something that they otherwise would not have done. It's like if you give someone money because they're holding a gun to your head. That's not a freely made choice.

It doesn't really matter whether or not Jaekyung would've let Dan leave without hurting him. Dan had sufficient reason to feel afraid of consequences from saying no to Jaekyung. It's not just that he'd walked into Jaekyung's apartment moments before Jaekyung SLAMMED A GUY'S FACE INTO THE WALL right in front of him. It's that Dan saw even beforehand that Jaekyung had a bad temper, and he had already known and been told by Jaekyung's OWN COACH that if he pisses Jaekyung off, Jaekyung can and will beat the shit out of him. And as the interaction between him and Jaekyung continues, Jaekyung several times uses threats of violence as well as physical force, besides just ignoring when Dan says no/stop/wait to force Dan to do what he wants. If you blatantly say no to something and someone ignores that no, are they not violating your consent? Can you be said to be consenting if the alternative is getting beaten?

You also agreed in the hypothetical that I lied to you, changing the terms of our agreement after you'd already accepted one set of terms. Jaekyung pulls the same move—he lies to Dan saying he only wants physical therapy and that he'll pay Dan to do physical therapy, and it's not until Dan gets to the apartment that he tells Dan that he wants sex, and that he won't give Dan money unless he has sex. This is coercion through deception. Even if Dan weren't in the tough financial situation that he was in, Jaekyung still would've been pressuring Dan into doing something he otherwise wouldn't have done. Again, it's not really consensual. If Jaekyung had been upfront to begin with and then Dan agreed, to sex, it would've been consensual.

I used the video game example to show also that just because someone agrees to do one thing, doesn't mean that they're agreeing to do anything and everything. And just because someone agreed to do one thing at one point, doesn't mean that they're agreeing to do that thing all the time/every single time. Even in the case of something like blanket consent—something like Jaekyung and Dan's "contract"—where the parties involved negotiate and decide that certain things can be done without asking for explicit consent every single time, each party can ABSOLUTELY take that consent back, and if that rescinding of consent isn't obeyed, the interaction becomes nonconsensual.

Is this making sense? Let me know if anything's unclear.

I also want to clarify part of why I'm so invested in clearing things up here. Like you said, this story is fictional, and like you said, Jaekyung probably isn't the worst of the worst when it comes to yaoi protagonists. The thing is though that even though the story is fictional, the way that they respond to the story is real. The arguments that Dan and Jaekyung's relationship is consensual/that Jaekyung can pretty much do whatever he wants with Dan despite his protests because Dan agreed to have sex with him when the alternative was him ending up on the streets, in crippling debt, with a sick and dying grandmother in the hospital...the arguments that Dan should just leave but since he doesn't, what Jaekyung is doing to him is ultimately consensual and even okay/justifiable/Dan's fault...it's really, really concerning to me. It indicates to me that the person arguing like that doesn't understand how consent works, and that they wouldn't be able to identify a nonconsensual and coercive situation in real life, which is harmful not just for them, but for people around them, too. If they met someone who was in a coercive situation like this, would they use these same victim-blaming statements against them? Tell them that because they agreed to one sexual act with someone, that they can't/shouldn't be upset, or say that they were raped, because the person they were engaging with did things they were uncomfortable with? Or that they should've just exited a situation that was difficult to exit? These are the types of things people say to real life victims of rape and sexual assault. And it makes their trauma so, so much worse as a result. Because now they're sitting there thinking and feeling that what happened to them was THEIR fault, that they're responsible for it, instead of them understanding that at the end of the day, it was all the RAPIST'S fault for what happened.

well said

can you just clarify this thing like, dan and Jaekyung did it for 5 grand... and only after that Jaekyung proposed to dan the ideo of dan being his prostitute. dan unwillingly agreed to Jaekyung but the unwillingness did not arrive from Jaekyung but from Dan's own financial situation. i agree that dan didnt wanna do it with Jaekyung but he did it eventually. he was forced by his own financial pressure and not by Jaekyung. and i think after the first 5 grand one, dan knew that Jaekyung wouldn't listen to him no matter what so he knew beforehand how Jaekyung will do it if he signs up for that 11grand one... it was consensual for Jaekyung because he is not obligated to give money to Jaekyung for nothing and he's not obligated to consider Dan's financial situation. for him dan gave consent whether it was because of money or fear. and i think dan admires how strong Jaekyung is. fear was not the main driving force for dan to sign up. it was money.
if you look at it like I'm not obligated to give money to a homeless person because it's my money and i will whatever i want with it. if i suggest the homeless person that I'll give him money but he has to work for me and the homeless person accepts it because he needed money. i won't consider the fact that the homeless person is also a disabled person who can't work. i just need to get my work done and I'll pay the homeless person. I'm not obligated to consider the homeless guy's situation.
given Jaekyung's personality that is.
i would simply choose another person who'll do the same work and get the same money but the difference is he can actually work unlike the homeless guy.
so I'm just saying that Jaekyung is not obligated to give dan money for free. he will just choose another guy but it was dan who absolutely needed money.
from jaekyung's pov dan agreed.
but from Dan's pov he agreed because he absolutely needed money and he has to do it even if he doesn't want to
but jaekyung is not obligated to consider that situation of dan

I'm saying all this considering Jaekyung's personality in mind.
the others might not have as bad personality as Jaekyung

also like child labour. the kid doesn't wanna do the work at a shop but he needs to do it because without the money the child's mom might not live. so the child unwillingly does it for money.
but the owner can simply choose an adult to do the shop's work.
the owner cannot keep his shop dirty as it is his sourse of income too. he can fire the child because it's illegal and also because he needs his shop clean but the child desperately needs money so he stayed.
the owner cannot give money to child when he's not cleaning. his sourse of income will die if his shop is not clean.
so the owner needs a cleaner absolutely and it doesn't matter to him if it's a child or adult cleaning his shop.
both child and owner are desperate in their own way. the owner is not obligated to give money to the kid when he's not even cleaning.
it's illegal but both parties needs to do it.

My bad. I see my initial response was unclear. When I first found this post I had read one of your replies first. After reading through the comments, I realized that my first interpretation was wrong. While I did mention that I knew you meant something different than what I initially thought, I didn’t fully acknowledge what you were actually trying to say. I think my comment on page 2 shows that I’ve gained a better understanding of your point.

I totally understand and agree with you.

I will just start by asking several clarifying questions because I think that we are operating from severely differing definitions and differing moral frameworks. I will go into further explanations later if you'd like, but it will be very long-winded, and I want to attempt to keep my responses shorter if I can.

What is your definition of consent? I am personally operating off of the FRIES model of consent. That is, consent must be: Freely given (without pressure, manipulation, or under the influence of drugs or alcohol), Reversible (able to be taken back at any time), Informed (all parties must disclose any information that might threaten the safety of the interaction, any information that would cause someone not to consent), Enthusiastic (parties involved are doing things they really want to do and have expressed as much), and Specific (agreeing or consenting to one act doesn’t mean a party agrees to or consents to any and all acts).

There’s also the CRISP model of consent, which keeps the R, I, and S of the FRIES model, and takes into consideration the fact that it can be difficult to always fully “freely give” consent because things like power dynamics and different systems of oppression (like sexism, racism, …capitalism, etc) can’t always be fully erased from an interaction, but can and should still be accounted for in some way. The C stands for Considered (as in all parties are given time to consider all the factors going into something and deciding whether or not they want to consent), and the P stands for Participatory (as in all parties need to be involved in the decision-making process, and each of their -making process, all parties need to have their thoughts, feelings, opinions heard and considered and accounted for).

My own nuances I’d add are: consent must be ongoing, as in should be acquired throughout an interaction (which is partially covered by the Specific clause) and that all parties, but especially the dominant/giving party or parties, are responsible for deliberately fostering an environment where consent can operate from within these models.

Under these models, Jaekyung violates Dan's consent. Jaekyung lies to Dan about the nature of their deal (violating Informed consent), uses financial coercion (violating Freely given), and ignores Dan’s requests to stop or slow down (violating Reversible consent). Even if Dan agrees under pressure, it isn’t truly consensual.

My next question(s) is (are): If someone came up to you on the street and asked you to suck his dick right then and there, in public, and when you said no, he tried to corner you into doing it instead—would you think that he was wrong to do that? Or would you think it’s okay? Why? Would your opinion of whether he’s right or wrong to do that change if he offered money for you to suck his dick in public? Why? Or, let’s not even use sex as the example. Let’s say this guy asks you to cut yourself. Would he be right to have asked that? Would he be right to ask that if he offered you money to cut yourself?

I personally don't think that either act is moral. The offer of money does not change the morality of the act itself—if anything, it makes things less moral, because now there's an additional element of financial coercion in the situation.

i agree with your questions in the end.
let's assume a peaceful situation... jaekyung is the sweetest guy in the world rn.
dan still needs money tho.
jaekyung asks dan to do something immoral with him.
keep in mind that here, jaekyung simply asked and dan is not under fear or anything, but he still needs money.
do you think dan would agree or not.
rn the only pressure is money that he needs for his granny and loan.
i think if he agrees for money- then the pressure is not exerted from jaekyung's side. so i don't think jaekyung would be in the wrong here because he's not pressuring or bullying dan into agreeing with him. jaekyung will let dan go and will never contact dan again.

if dan doesn't agree then he loses his only hope in the world his grandmother.

Before I say anything more, could you please clarify what you mean when you say you agree with my questions in the end? Did you mean that you agree with my definition of consent and agree that Jaekyung violated that definition/did something nonconsensual? And you agree that an immoral act remains immoral regardless of whether or not money is involved? Or did you mean something else. I just want to be very clear about it because, again, if we have fundamentally different understandings of these things then we won’t really be able to have a productive conversation.

I’ll also ask in regards to this message—do you think it matters how or why someone consents to something, how that consent is obtained? Or is the consent on its face all that matters?

you see her like once every ten chapters

Omg sameee thought I was the only one

idk why people dislike your comment youre right