Marble's Topics (52)

The side stories always ruin good Bls

They have a word to stop, they both like it and agree, thats what a healthy BDSM scene works. If you cant have with this hope you never read BLs like non zero sun

??? it was consensual and he didnt know lyle kept a thought of marriage, lyle agreed and consented, he was feeling ASHAMED and embarrassed of the situation but not because he felt forced or anything. he literally agreed to it all, ash would never force him into anything

Girl,how high are you? Where do you see the rape? It was consensual sex with a safe word.

They brought the toys, they made a safe word and the both consented?? Are you perhaps new to bdsm? Is this your first yaoi?? Lmao some couples tend to find things that turns them on other than sex, I guess you also don't know it.

Heyy , so this is not rape . Im absolutely always hunting for manhwas which are rape free . This is bdsm , they kind of explored their kinks and ash literally took lyle out to shop for sex toys and they had a safe word which lyle would use incase he wanted ash to completely stop and surrender . However lyle saying "stop" is a symbolic gesture he always does when he's embarassed asf .

LITERALLY!! idk why these authors always have to include sexual assault in their manhwas its actually very fucking creepy like why is almost everyone adding it into their stories

LITERALLY!! idk why these authors always have to include sexual assault in their manhwas its actually very fucking creepy like why is almost everyone adding it into their stories

Having a word to stop means nothing when the other person is persuaded to agree.

He would never but he does it anyway

Ash bought the toys not karlye, karlye didn’t even want to go in there, no im not new to bdsm or yaoi, he does have to say the safe word for his partner to realise he doesn’t want to do this, karlye didn’t even want to buy those things or use them it was all ash.

Heyy so if you persuade your partner to do something sexual with them while they are very obviously hesitant and have told you no and you still push them to do it then it very much is sexual assault/rape. Bdsm is supposed to be consensual not persuasive you dont just punish your partner like that, ash took karlye to buy those toys even tho karlye didn’t even want to, karlye is a huge overthinker and has a hard time refusing ash and ash knows that he used that against him and you can tell its literally in front of you guys but i guess you guys arent as attentive as you should be.

Like you know them? Lmao idk why you keep defending yourself over some fictional that literally has an emotion DRAWN yet you conclude everything as rape lmao Yeh, you're new here. WELCOME TO YAOI WORLD WHERE THEY ALL HAVE KINKS AND DEVELOPMENT.

Mf sexual assault isnt a kink its sick, ive been reading bls since 2019 i am not new stop embarrassing yourself with those cringe ass lines even if i was new that means absolutely nothing, and if a new person would be able to tell that something is sexual assault over someone whos been reading for a long time doesn’t that just mean your just insensitive to it now?? y’all are so fucking hilarious its actually concerning. I know them because ive been reading their stories?? I know how they act and what tehy feel by their body language and their facial expressions and words if i wasnt able to even tell that by such simple things taht would mean the author was doing a terrible job at making manhwas.

A sub’s safe words should not be picked for them. Especially considering Ash picked one that is something that Lyle is not comfortable saying/just. Won’t say because he deems it too embarrassing. They effectively do not have a safe word.
I am a gay man who practices kink IRL and who is also a survivor of SA. While I think it’s fine to enjoy these sorts of fictional portrayals of things, it does concern me to see how fervently people defend it as being safe sane and consensual.
Again, it’s fiction, right? But like. You can enjoy something in fiction and simultaneously acknowledge “if this happened in real life it would be sexual assault/abuse/rape.” And I think it’s simultaneously fair for people to see things that would be rape, but written as if it was consensual, and say, “hey, I don’t think this is good writing”.
Just to repost something I said elsewhere:
Okay seriously though if a dom:
1. chooses your safe word for you. especially if it’s a safe word you don’t feel comfortable saying
2. doesn’t tell you the play you’re doing before the scene
3. insists on punishing you for something you don’t feel comfortable being punished for
4. puts you in a scenario where you feel forced to use your safe word or do something you really don’t want to do
5. makes you (even unintentionally) question if they love you or fear how you respond to a scene
you need to have a LONG conversation with them about fixing this or you need to run. some of these are red flags and some of these are blatant abusive/not safe sane and consensual

anyways OP tbf the rut scene at the end of the story was also really bad. Lyle was crying, saying no, begging to stop, and in pain for most of it, as well as going unconscious multiple times, and Ash revealed afterwards that he was pretty well in control of his mental faculties the entire rut (knew and meant everything he said to Lyle, had no regrets about knotting him ans fully intended it). Which. Means he was well aware that Lyle had revoked consent.

If we’re being REALLY realistic. Ash kisses Lyle multiple times within the first like. 6 chapters after Lyle verbalizes he does not want to or feel comfortable with it, Ash even being coy like, Lyle saying something like “I don’t wanna do that” and Ash responding like, “do what~? *kisses him again*” Which. Would be sexual assault IRL.
I had to stop my reread at ch7-8 bcus it is so eerily similar to my own SA (I was not a survivor the first time I read it) that I got very badly triggered so. I can’t comment fairly on that and beyond. Alas.

Putting Lyle in a scenario where he either has to use his safe word or he has to do something he really does not want to do (say his secret) is bad BDSM etiquette at best. It is abusive. A dom should never push a sub to use their safe word. The alternative being “keep being punished OR tell me your secret” is not a healthy, safe, sane, and consensual scenario (with the exception being that this is all very clearly laid out and explained, and something Lyle is aware of and consents to. But Lyle didn’t know what was going to happen.)

Grl most ppl that are into BDSM love that role play of saying "no" and "pls stop" and they keep going, thats why there is a specific word, so the role play can work.
Also this is a fiction, most of us love dark romances but of course we dont want that to happen irl, its just a fantasy. I understand that you cant handle but saying this is 3ape? Nah

Did you read my reply to you specifically, or just my reply to OP? I pointed out that I practice BDSM irl, an a survivor, that Ash picked the safe word (bad), and that it’s something Lyle doesn’t feel comfortable saying (double bad). And I address the last paragraph.

Yall need to learn what consent is, we are talking about Lyle then I guess everything is rape. Since he's hesitant all the time.
I swear yall throw around rape whenever it's something you don't like. The story was consensual and Lyle was the one to buy the toys not Ash. It also states multiple times that Lyle in no way thinks anything ash does is against his will. During his run, Ash asked Lyle to leave but he stayed.
Smdh media literacy is gone.

He revoked consent during Ash’s rut. Very, very visibly. We’re not talking about hesitancy. We’re talking about blatantly saying no and stop during the scene where there is no safe word, and abusive BDSM in the scene where there is a safe word.
Since I brought up the rut, I have to assume you’re at least partially responding to me. And I mentioned being a survivor in that same reply.
Telling a survivor to learn what consent is… is a fucking TAKE, man. What is wrong with you?

Okay NVM I just saw you say in your own thread, *acknowledging* that Lyle couldn’t use the safe word. And still arguing it was consensual and fine. But that “oh Lyle could’ve just told him he didn’t like it”. A safe word is NECESSARY during BDSM play. The dom picking a safe word the bottom doesn’t feel comfortable saying makes it no longer sane, safe, or consensual.
I’m going to assume you MUST be a troll from here-on because that is so fucked up, dude. That or you have a fundamental misunderstanding of not only BDSM, but consent, since you don’t seem to realize consent can be taken away at any moment.

You're very dumb, i am a survivor of SA too. This wasn't SA, it was BDSM with a very hesitant sub. Not at all consent being ignored or forced into this situation. Lyle admitted he wouldn't be able to say it and still went along with him.
I understand consent can be taken away at any point, its the fact that this wasn't rape in the slightest. Saying "no. stop" during a BDSM isnt really a end all since that's what safe words are for., as some people use it as overstimulation or in a roleplay aspect. Lyle consented to everything, was it overwhelming, yes but it wasn't rape. I'm getting tired of everyone crying rape when its not that. Like at all.
BDSM was used wrong, I'll give it that, but it wasn't forced on him. Ash would never hurt Lyle or force him into anything he doesn't want. Consent being revoked wasn't really necessary since Lyle knows Ash won't hurt him.

Yes. That is what safe words are for. Which you acknowledge Lyle could not use or say the safe word he was given, and acknowledge that he said no and stop.
It doesn’t matter if “Lyle still went along with it” even after he admitted he wouldn’t be able to say it. Ash shouldn’t be doing anything if he knows Lyle can’t safeword out, because otherwise he would be abusing him. That is non-negotiable.
Lyle has a safe word he cannot say. Meaning he doesn’t have a safe word. Ash picked the safeword (very bad) and picked a safe word he knows Lyle won’t feel comfortable using. That is abusive.
You are ignoring the very real phenomenon of coercion. We are shown over, and over, and over, and over again that Lyle is afraid to upset Ash. That even as he wants to propose to Ash, he’s terrified that Ash hates him and wants to break up with him. If someone cannot use a safe word or clearly revoke consent because they are too scared to, they should NOT be doing a BDSM scene. Especially not one like this. Because it CANNOT BE DONE safe, sane, and consensually.
Lyle is intended to just be reluctant or hesitant. Yes. You understand what the story intended. But it failed to deliver, as the story is written in a way that depicts Lyle as being clearly unwilling, clearly being scared and not wanting it, clearly thinking that Ash is going to hate him and break up with him for his body’s reaction to the scene.
And need I bring up the rut again? Where Lyle said no, stop, that he was in pain, over and over and over?
Listen, I apologize for assuming you weren’t a survivor. But I did so because you were so blatantly disrespectful of me being a survivor.

Hey so do you know what safe words are by any chance

Lyle makes it very, very clear that he wishes to stop the scene in his internal monologue. Even if he gets aroused by it. Arousal doesn’t indicate consent. And the story makes it very apparent that Lyle is worried that if he says no to Ash, that he will damage their relationship.
And the ultimatum is, again, abusive. A dom should never push a sub into a situation where their options are “use your safe word or do this thing you don’t feel comfortable doing”.
I can understand where you’re coming from in the sense that, yeah, your POV is probably what the writer intended. But they did a shit job of it. Because I don’t think it’s a coincidence that an innumerable amount of people, including many like myself who practice BDSM IRL, look at this and go, “that was rape.”

I think you should reread the end of side 7

I get your point and I never liked how author made lyle a very hesitant person when it comes to intercourse scenes (and in contrast put a very persuasive person w him) . If we look at their characters like that then you're correct it does get justified as SA

I AGREEE.. Fr. It's gone. And it shows how they are illiterate when reading yaoi. Like can they stop reading already if all they see is RAPE??

Guys this is a two page thread are we okay

I mean, like, am I good? Honestly, yeah.
I’m a little concerned with how fervently y’all are defending something that would be SA if it happened IRL, especially since similar shit has happened to me and I can’t talk about it because I was too scared to say “no” or “stop,” and especially bcus I practice kink IRL.
Like, I’m pretty sure everyone is in agreement about what the author intended was not rape. But authorial intent does not always equate to how it’s read, y’know?

I also keep remembering things I want to say after I hit post, part of why it’s long. Alas.
Obviously, my trauma does not equate to a fictional story, and obviously, because it’s a fictional story, people can read it in different ways and differentiate fact and fiction.
In my case, I find it concerning how many people I see here espouse rape apology rhetoric (For example, I’ve seen multiple people say things long the lines of “he’s a grown man, he can just fight back if he doesn’t actually want it!”).
It’s important for people to know when unhealthy portrayals of kink are unhealthy and/or unrealistic. I’ve seen multiple people say things like “you must not know what BDSM is/you must be vanilla!” when, no, this is a very bad and unhealthy portrayal of BDSM. This kind of stuff (dom giving the sub a safe word they don’t feel comfortable saying or can’t say, dom not telling the sub about the scene beforehand, dom putting the sub in a position where they feel forced to safe word, sub feeling like they don’t want to disappoint their dom if they safeword) is similar to very, very real abuses that people have and do through. I’ve seen countless people in similar scenarios asking for help, unsure if they are being abused or not, unsure what they should do.
I didn’t know I was sexually assaulted until I asked Why it made me feel so bad to some people who engage in BDSM and they told me I had been sexually assaulted. But, because of bad media depicting kink, I thought it was fine. I thought I knew better.

Long rant aside. Like. Obviously, the author did not intend to portray a rape scene. But if so many people are so strongly reacting, saying it is unhealthy BDSM, it would be rape or SA in real life… instead of assuming they’re stupid and wrong, maybe take a step back and examine and really understand why they feel that way.

Again, at the end of the day. It’s a fictional story. But in my opinion and the opinion of clearly very many people, this scene is a badly written portrayal of BDSM that is too reminiscent of SA and hurts the narrative of the story.

Holy mother of paragraphs.

First, lemme start by saying I did read this entire thing as well as almost all the comments under the thread and I get it. In fact I'm understanding both opinions cs like you said, the author had intended it to be taken one way, and people took it another.

Why I'm understanding the ppl saying it isn't SA:

The way the characters are written. Lyle being this very reserved, closed off, and hesitant person, even around his S/O with his mannerisms, and actions. He doesn't do well making some decisions for himself and is like a scared cub around literally everyone he comes into contact with for whatever reason (even tho it did get better to a certain extent). It's like he's gonna break at the slightest inconvenience (real) and we know that's how he's been since the start, which is why ppl are like "oh he's fine, he's just like that". Ash is almost the complete opposite of Lyle, with an acception like the fact he's also a bit closed off with Lyle, although Ash does open up if it's really bothering him or Lyle (like we've just seen with the whole Hazel thing). Not to mention Ash is like this HUGE freak and he tries to introduce Lyle to some of his kinks, that Lyle is either appalled by, or has never heard of it a day in his life, which brings me to my next point, that's also in this point,

Why I'm understanding the people saying it IS:

ASH IS A FUCKING FREAK. And while that's okay most of the time, he gets way too into the role and doesn't have the best time understanding he could be taking it too far, and like you, and most ppl here have stated, safe words should be chosen by the one who'll actually be using it, no doubt. Lyle being that hesitant and closed off person doesn't help the situation either, cs in times of intimacy, he can't bring himself to speak up about what he wants a lot of the time and ends up in impossible situations. Ash seems aware of it all, but still does what he wants and honestly that's my biggest ick about him because my gods, LET THE MAN BREATHE?? What's worse is that he's genuine about it, it's like while he's aware of Lyle's state and feelings, he's also not? It's weird cs you can obviously see him caring and taking it slow, to going back to not listening.

Idk man I'm not good at explaining things but I tried my best, honestly I'm not sure if I can form an official opinion about either sides

I apologize, I’m a long winded person.
Regardless, I appreciate your response. I have a pretty decent understanding of why people feel so strongly that it isn’t, I just (obv) disagree.
I think you did a good job explaining! And I appreciate that you were kind about it lmao.

Yeah thanks cs I get arguing but damn mfs don't have to be so rude about it

I haven’t reread this and started the story ages ago when i had little knowledge of what actual consent even was so i guess i unfortunately missed those thank you for telling me! I myself am not exactly a victim of assault but i have been violated before which is one of the reasons why i taught myself about consent in the first place, im so sorry you had to go through that. :(

Read the other replies here. Safe words don’t work like that.

Read mine

I did ages ago my statement still stands

And I agree with it so what's the problem now

honestly I agree, the other day I saw someone comment how they found ash like weird during the whole story and I can kinda see it in the side stories

I never saw him as weird in the story just a bit possessive when it came to his rut and sex tho but in the sides its like hes a whole ass different person he no longer is the understanding and patient sweet man he used to be

Omg same

I totally agree with you