now. i want to start this off with a disclaimer. I AM AUTISTIC. I HAVE OCD. BEEN DIAGNOSED SINCE 2017. I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
Now. heonjae is a very troubled character. but we need to remember this is in the context within a very high security prison, that's stated at the start when they question why myeong-il is there just for gambling and stealing.
generally, everyone in a maximum security / high security prison will need to have committed a violent crime, often heinous. think kidnapping, murder, attempted murder, child abuse, etc.
Heonjae is in for kidnapping and murder. Yes, this is bad. Obviously. He's in prison. Jingi is in for also presumably murder and has records of torturing and raping inmates. So if you dickride Jingi but hate on Heonjae for the reason of Heonjae being a "violent criminal" I need you to get off Jingi's dick and WAKE UP!!!!
what are the main reasons people hate heonjae?
1. he's creepy
his creepy behaviour, disregarding his mutilation fantasy, is that he's very quiet, blunt, shy, and clingy. this is very typical behaviour of someone who is autistic and / or went through an abusive childhood like heonjae did. judging by his behaviour, it's fair to say heonjae was probably physically and verbally abused, often belittled which is why he often makes himself as small as possible.
on top of this, he has autistic symptoms as his behaviour. was this the authors intention= 99%, no. but a lot of times characters who want to be depicted as "creepy" are written with autistic traits which is incredibly ableist. some of heonjae's notably autistic traits are:
- RSD
- black and white thinking
- a difficulty understanding personal space and boundaries
- an intense attachment to objects that might manifest as hyperempathy (his blanket + teddybear)
- an intense attachment to a person viewed as safe (myeong-il, who was the first person who treated him like an actual person)
2. he wants to kill myeong-gi
his scene depicting violent fantasies remind me more of intrusive thoughts than planning and ideation. heonjae grew up in a violent household with a brother that then introduced him to violent crime, it's safe to say he's not sure how to express his love otherwise.
extreme feelings like love to him equate to extreme things like violence. he's never said he's *going* to act on these impulses, he just said he imagines it. does that make it healthy? no, but it doesn't make him a sociopath
3. he's a rapist
yes and so is jingi. this is set in a prison with awful people. it's also yaoi written by a straight woman, this is porn and some scenes will be rape fetishy. you can't really avoid this in BL. if you hate the characters for this reason, that's understandable, just don't read it.
^ adding onto this, comparing Jingi and Heonjae's approach to sex, heonjae is a lot less forceful. for example, he only had myeong-il suck his dick because myeong-il agreed to it. the bath scene is a lot more grey since it's hard to tell what the author classifies as rape or not. of course, anything without explicit consent is rape, but in the context of BL authors, a lot of them only think it's rape if **they purposefully depict it as rape**.
4. he's a sociopath
you do not know what a sociopath is and you are contributing to stigma surrounding ASPD. heonjae, multiple times, expresses an understanding of empathy, sympathy, and other people's emotions. he is not impulsive, nor does he engage in lying a lot. in fact he feels horrible about lying to myeong-il. he meets zero of the requirements.
all in all, yes it's just a BL, but please be more mindful on how you demonise mentally ill traits and him as a character. he's not a good person, but that's unrelated to his autistic and OCD-like traits.
I'm the number one heonjae defender. if i catch you shittalking him I'm going to reply. beware.
dont let them silence you or call you ableist for saying that heonjae has autistic traits. stay strong. stay resilent. i salute you my fudanshi warrior
Thank you my fudanshi brethern.
Speak your truth. We Heonjae supporters refused to be silenced
At this point you are just making up excuses for what he’s done
Just question because i barely know anything about autism
About the black and white thinking does this include what he thinks his brother doing good? Or what he is doing
Like helping his brother rape/sa myeong-il or doing that to myeong-il himself
Mhm thinking about it probably authors knows, or is there a somewhere you can read more in depth lore??
I kinda disagree because they are just showing it from their perspective why he's just missunderstood and it's also they said it's for the people who "dickride Jingi but hate on Heonjae for the reason of Heonjae being a "violent criminal" " when technically speaking he did way less bad things than jingi despite character's having tragic back stories
Is what i got from reading!!!
I agree but I've been seeing more people dickride Heonjae and hate on Jingi because they feel like Jingi is the true evil one that tells Heonjae to commit the crimes and Heonjae is just the innocent follower that is simply following orders. But people should be more honest about how terrible both are. People are probably just hating on both and I see more people dickriding Heonjae.
I 100% agree they are both fcked up i feel like people shitalk them both but its annoying seeing ppl ignore these traits and explain his character ignoring this. hes a well written character but awful lol but thats abt the same as most in this story
No, his lack of understanding that SA / rape is bad stems from his childhood where he was abused so he equates abuse to any strong feelings like love. he understands that myeong-il feels hurt by Jingi, but not really *why*. his black and white thinking presents more in that he thinks myeong-il is all good and that jingi is all bad!
thanks for asking questions! :)
No, not really. i never excused why he’s in prison. i’m just stating the reason for his “odd” behaviour and why people need to be more mindful on how they discuss him. he’s a bad person, I’m not denying that
EXACTLY thank youb
i need you people to leave him ALONE . what has heonjae done. genuinely. what has he done that jingi hasn't done. BE SERIOUS !!! WHO WAS THE ONE IN THE SHOWERS? IN THE FIRST CAHPTERS? JINGI. NOT HEONJAE. exactly. now leave him alone my sweet boy
dies from cringe
Let them be in their own little world
i'm gonna write multiple paragraphs on why i love him. watch
I want to believe this is satire
It is kind of funny so I will ignore this maybe being not satire.
*maybe not being satire. Idk what the fuck I'm writing. I knew that this doesn't make sense and I hate that you cannot edit your comments...
?
a straight woman definitely wrote this you can tell
umm i hate to be the bearer of bad news but 90% of yaoi is written by straight women sorry to burst your bubble
Yes i know. but sometimes its more noticeable than others. in this its very noticeable
just close your eyes. literally just log out cyberbullying is not this srs
╮(￣▽￣)╭ pretty realistic. I've seen guild wars break out for even smaller reasons.
Yes but why is MC being so annoying about it. he's acting like he just got insulted irl. literally log out HELP MEEE
people commit suicide over cyberbullying
people commit suicide over a lot of things
ok thats not my point u said cyberbullying isnt serious yes it is
its serious when it affects your IRL life directly. if you can't put an end to it just by turning off ur computer or logging off as its impacting your irl relationships and life, that's beyond cyberbullying imo as it has direct involvement in ur real life ... but most cyberbullying is in fact, not that srs, or at least not so srs that you cant just log off and call it a day. if it affects your mental health, you still have control over whether it ends or not by simply turning off ur electronics, so its still not that srs
for example ... someone leaving hate comments on ur profile or whatever. log off, delete comments, turn off ur phone. not that srs... someone blackmailing you with something private you sent online and threatening to send it to all of your friends and family? while that's still online, it's impacting your irl life too, thats beyond cyberbullying and is now harassment
so, no... cyberbullying in its actual form isnt that srs, but im assuming ur using cyberbullying as a catchall phrase for stuff that happens online
So you obviously don't know how hate comments and harassment online impact a person mentally when it becomes a constant thing. You can't just "log off" or "delete comments" and "forget" just because you can't see them. Some people aren't that strong mentally. Fudge even the STRONGEST people fall to online hate.
1. The MC is not experiencing this in just the moment. The Mirror girl and her clique have been cyberbullying MC for a while now. It started before Mirror left the guild. Mirror was constantly ignoring and isolating MC from the guild. Now it's escalated and anywhere Mirror goes, she's bullying MC and her guild.
2. It doesn't have to be blackmail or harassment that devolves to real life to harm someone. Some of the most famous cases are Sulli, Jonghyun, etc. They weren't doxxed. But everyday, everyday moment of their online action was criticized. Those "not so srs hate comments" caused them to leave this world behind. So PLEASE stop tryna minimize how someone may be feeling. It's honestly chilling how you think hate comments online can't impact someone when in fact...it has KILLED people. You remind me of the people who hated and made hating Sulli online their entire career. They said the same exact things you said "Our words didn't kill Sulli. She killed herself". Disgusting.
do not bring up sulli and jonghyun in a discussion about a fictional character as that is beyond disrespectful and has completely different contexts as they were famous and had Thousands of people hating on them. though, im unsure if cyberbullying was even why jonghyun committed suicide, he had a history of depression even before debut. as for sulli, again, she had thousands of people hating on her daily to the point it impacted her career, aka her real life. sulli was harassed irl, and again, its different contexts as she is a Real Famous Person. the mc is both not real, and not famous, and has every chance to log off as he does not have paparazzis and bullies following his every move and action
1. Bringing up Sulli and Jonghyun in this context is not disrespectful because it is a moment of learning and acknowledgement of what was done to them. You minimzing cyberbullying is disrespectful and outright disgusting Bruce.
2. 1 hate comment or 1 million hate comments. It makes no difference. Both can send someone over the edge. Until you can learn that, do not speak about this being fictional or not. Real life or fiction doesn't matter. You don't get to minimalise someone's feelings BRUCE.
3. Different context? No this is the same context BRUCE. Online bullying. There is no difference Bruce. Again, as you seem to keep dismissing, "impacting real life" is not judt physcial but mental. That 1 hate comment can make someone become insecure. It can cause them body dymorphia. It can cause a multitude of effects that don't include doxxing, stalking, etc. So you can't just "LOG OFF" Bruce.
3. Don't be a disgusting person who says "it's fictional" so it doesn't matter Bruce. Disgusting online bullies use that same argument when they bully someone to death, "Oh it's just words, we didn't kill her, she did it to herself".
you really can just log off. you can log off right now you know. turn the phone off. put the phone down. you can do that. you don’t need to get this pressed, cyberbullying is seriously not that serious
ive known many people who have attempted suicide/have sh over cyberbullying. and no, occasional hate comments dont count as cyberbullying; i think youre confusing what i was trying to say. the mc of this story isn’t necessarily going through cyberbullying, but you keep insisting that cyberbullying isnt a serious thing. i also read the comment you wrote about how as soon as cyberbullying starts to have a direct effect on your life it isnt considered cyberbullying; youre so poorly misinformed. google is free! go do some more research before commenting ignorant and stupid made up shit again please.
I can stay logged on since I'm not preaching it. You can log off though Bruce. Lead by Example (๑•ㅂ•)و✧
I agree with everything you've said. I would say MC is experiencing mild Cyberbullying though, like the initial stages that could very well escalate if there is no intervention by either the victim or those around the victim.
"What Is Cyberbullying? Cyberbullying is the use of technology to harass, threaten, embarrass, or target another person. Online threats and mean, aggressive, or rude texts, tweets, posts, or messages all count. So does posting personal information, pictures, or videos designed to hurt or embarrass someone else."
Which MC is experiencing. Mirror Ignores and Isolates MC while she is with the guild. Than this escalates to her leaving and instigating a whole guild to engage in this behavior with her. Now they aren't just actively trying to isolate and ignore MC. They are trash talking/putting down MC in his presence. Making him feel inferior intentionally. It's very highschool wannabe bullying tactics.
It's always a slow gradual escalation, never full force.
i totally agree! i just thought that if i outright said that what the mc was going through was also pretty much mild cyberbullying the og commenter would get all mad and throw a fit about how "its not encroaching on his real life so its not harmful"
oh i just realized it was two people bitching and not just one oops...
Bruce is allergic to Cyberbullying.
it’s just not that serious though! >.< if cyberbullying is exclusively online, you seriously have all the control over whether it ends or not, unless it’s directly affecting and relating to your real life so is inescapable even when u log off (which i have literally already said). i’m not talking about mental health, im talking about the actions and how they directly affect your life. as for mental health, that does not change how it’s still completely in your control to just log off or move accounts or anything else. the equation of mental health being impacted is irrelevant to what i was saying. if someone kills themself because of cyberbullying, there is almost always an outside factor. which is why the other person bringing up sulli was extremely disrespectful as it’s not comparable at all, i know that wasn’t you but i thought to mention it
i also know people who have been cyberbullied, i know people who have been both bullied irl and cyberbullied. the former was always worse im sorry but if cyberbullying is seriously affecting you im sincere when i say maybe certain online spaces aren’t for you until you're in a better mental health state or headspace. i’m not “throwing a fit” i’m just very tired of ppl acting like cyberbullying is more srs than it is and trying to include themselves in conversations about abuse and bullying that they do not belong in
i hadn’t replied to you for almost 12 hours and you’re still talking about me, that’s what’s crazy! your replies are meaningless and make no sense, at least the other person seems to actually know what they’re talking about. i really won’t reply to you if you reply again because im not interested in a conversation with someone who’s clearly not competent enough to respond back >_<
Just log out Bruce
while i agree that irl bullying is almost always more harmful and impactful than cyberbullying, cyberbullying doesnt have to be something like doxxing, or like you said, “directly affecting your real life” for it to be serious. mental health IS as important as physical well being. expanding on what ive iterated, ive had friends who were of good mental health who got severely cyberbullied (hate comments, targeted posts) and became very insecure and depressed. i dont think you should invalidate those who have been cyberbullied; though i understand that it may seem that its not that serious because its online, there have been multiple scientific studies on the effects of cyberbullying on psychological well being. i think our discrepancy in opinion stems from the fact that i personally (and as defined in scientific studies and journals) define cyberbullying as repeated and aggressive harassment towards a victim, while you might be thinking that occasional hate comments or arguments with people online also count as cyberbullying. of course in cases like those its easy to log off or turn off your device.
i classify cyberbullying in the same way you do, but it's easy to put an end to it granted they don't have blackmail on you or any personal info like that. that's something i have never denied, i am aware there are nuances like that. i have also never denied the mental health affects it can have on ppl -- i struggle with mental health issues myself and have my entire life, but the way the actions affect someone does not change the severity of those actions
what affects someone in one way may have 0 affect on another person, but the action is still the same with the same severity. i don't think cyberbullying in most cases is severe or serious, even if it affects people in that way. do i think people should be cyberbullied ? no, i'm aware that cyberbullying is hurtful regardless of my stance on the severity of it, but do i also think it's that serious ? in most cases, also no
tho in relation to the bl we're talking about, that's an example of it being not serious at all, and the situation in the bl is what op was referencing when he said 'just log off.' i think the conversation has been derailed a lot, which is of course my fault too. i don't agree with you and i don't think i ever will, but i do respect ur opinion and that you have had people hurt by cyberbullying