No actual spoilers, I promise- FL constantly tells herself and others that she is strong, logical, and independent. No. So much no. Her actions rarely fit anything she says. It's frustrating. As a reader, it's almost insulting, because it's almost like she's lying to us. Tbf, it's 90% because she's lying to herself. And tbf... I do that some, too. It goes on for the whole story.
A couple big plot points just kinda vanish without ever being clarified (*cough like that childhood incident cough*). They were huge at first... then so much unnecessary emo back-and-forth pining interrupts until you finally forget. Even a couple characters randomly stopped showing up. Did they die...? Get a different job...? Author got bored of them? Sorry, anyway...
The 2nd and 3rd MLs are far better love interests, as well as better characters in general. They have distinctive personalities and backgrounds, love FL in complicated but true ways, etc. The ML's best points? Occasionally being considerate of other human beings. Like calling for a doctor if someone is dying in front of you. I mean, the bar is on the ground. Tiny example is ML asking his chef to make something the FL likes for the ONE LUNCH he requests her to join. She's a warm-and-tingly mess over it. ...I always care about what my guests like to eat... that's just being a decent person? Ugh. It's wild how much better the other dudes are than the ML.
Idky I torture myself with stuff like this. I read this ages ago, but it's legendary for the general results. I chose to reread and remember what was bad. After reading a ton of these stories... yeah. I remember. It's not bad overall... just very unsatisfactory in most ways. Leaves you disappointed.
Tbvh. I am super SUPER happy she didn't end up with carrot and grass , she doesn't deserve them
Lmao, I feel bad but I agree
That art deserves a way better story. It's like every time you think things are getting resolved, it turns into a whole new thing. Like they're introducing 50 tiny separate plots and stringing them together. Sometimes you keep reading because you so badly wish it would end (I know it doesn't make sense). It's like watching a pileup of cars crashing and not being able to look away. But, like, ML is hotter than lava, so... there are perks.
I’m here thinking the same thing , they need to wrap it up. Story line gets crazier for no reason, like they’re adding random scenarios and unnecessary characters. I get what you mean about seeing it thru to the end,I need to be satisfied and see to it that it actually has an ending to make sure all my patience was worth it hahaha
Honestly, it's not that bad. I NEVER like art changes, because even if the art is about the same quality, the style change throws the vibe way off from the original. We all know it's not uncommon for a different artist to take over- but it IS uncommon for a lesser-known manhwa (especially an R19) to be picked back up after a hiatus.
As a perv who wanted to know more of the overall story (the spoilers suggest some plot twists), I don't mind a slight downgrade in visual quality. It's not "I waited this long and got lower quality?!", it's "I'm so glad they were willing to continue even if they couldn't get top-tier art".
And hey, what if the artist is a bit new or is adjusting to the general style and designs? This wasn't originally their project, so they have to be flexible finding their 'groove' combining their art with the original style/vibe. If we read a few chapters to get used to it and they work on this story for a bit, I'm sure it feel like a big deal for long.
The first chapter it came back, I kinda went "ew, the dudes are so much less attractive". But dang, I was 1/3 just unhappy to be surprised by the difference (so it felt unfamiliar), 1/3 unhappy it wasn't to my personal taste, but 1/3 "YAAAY the manhwa wasn't dropped into an abyss, it's BACK".
I'm actually really talented at realism-based drawing and painting, but can not draw comics/anime/whatever to save my life. Having to do finalized chapters every week, especially on a project I'm 'taking over'? Y'all, that sounds hard.
Opinions are fine, y'all. Art is literally subjective. I hope we can be a bit more constructive with our criticism and not just... mean? I'm gonna be so disappointed if the new artist bails on the project or doesn't renew their contract. It would be almost impossible for them to want to continue investing in the series or convince another artist to take over (likely for less pay, too).
I have nooo idea why I got that ranty, so sorry y'all. But I hope most of us give it a bit more of a chance...
NO SPOILERS BUT- There's a literal whole arc of plot, mostly from Doha's POV, and it's been CUT. A couple things were framed a bit biased, then they just cut like several chapters of content. Maybe they'll flash back a scene or two, but it won't be able to cover much of jack. Blargh. I should've known they'd do that.
Can you spoil it? Just add a spoiler tag
I'll do it super basic and use the dot thing lol
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Things like: the ML and FL don't see each other yet at all. There really are 'pink hair girl' wanted posters all over, and yes, ML's enemies really do want to find her and kill her. At the same time, ML also has everyone out looking for her... so tons of people really do misunderstand and think he wants her dead for leaving him. Some people do stuff like kidnap and even kill girls with light red hair because they want the reward for finding her!
Really! Even some of ML's own knights were manhandling a redhead girl in the street because they thought the boss wanted to punish his ex... so ML steps up and kills the dude. Now, I admit Doha had encouraged those rumors before they left town, but it wasn't originally his idea (I mean, remember the ML's political enemies were already going for her?). Doha just wanted to pretend he was someone who believed those rumors and convince her as well.
The biggest part to point out though is that even though Doha was lying, he was honestly literally trying to save her from being kidnapped and killed by ML's enemies. He used it to keep the leads separated as well, yes, BUT Doha was still actively protecting her. On the journey he even quietly kills a couple of people with bad intentions towards the FL. Typical protective yandere stuff.
Doha was born from a prostitute next to a huge temple in a far off city in the direction they're going, so he's like "hey, before anything else, would you please go with me to find more about my mother?? I was sold off to the church, poor orphan me, you'll support me through this right...?".
FL gets in a carriage for them to go... and ML and his knights show up in town as Doha was going to grab their bags to leave. ML spots Doha, AND WITHOUT PAUSING TO ASK A SINGLE QUESTION, ML uses full speed and strength trying to one-hit kill Doha on sight! What does Doha do? He uses magic to toss out a kinda illusion version of his self to fight ML off while he tries to run away. I mean, damn, OF COURSE Doha is gonna fight back hard for his survival. He didn't have a choice! Anyway, ML manages to kill the thing, realizes it wasn't real, chasing Doha down and again attempts to kill him. They both end up critically wounded, but Doha escapes with his life and gets to the carriage. For some reason, Doha snatches a locket that ML had dropped during the fight. Anyway, FL saves him with healing and is like "Omg I totally wanna kill whoever did this to you!" and Doha's kinda smirking.
Meanwhile, a different carriage blows up. ML was tricked into thinking he had glimpsed FL inside of it... nah, it was a decoy to throw ML off their trail. It delays them a bit and ML is slowed down from the fight anyway, but it doesn't fool him.
Okay, don't hate me, but I can't remember if this next part happened before or after Doha had his fight with ML: somewhere on the trip while they were going city to city, they pretended to be mercenaries to join another party. You needed a group to go through an area, felt kinda game-like (need long range damage dealer, close range, a mage, a healer, etc). They were traveling (by foot I think? Maybe there was a single basic wagon?) through a monster-heavy area and the group totally would have died without FL and Doha. The point is that during this leg of the trip, I think Doha seemed too strong during a fight. Like I believe he one-shot a SUPER powerful flying monster with a bolt of holy power. It made FL suspicious of his identity because, well damn, he sure seemed stronger than he had shown before. Back to the rest-
In Doha's birth city, he goes out to track down his mother by asking around about for an older high class prostitute with the mom's description. He asks FL to wait for him at the hotel because he's going to be going into some not-classy places. He finds out his mother was practically forced to service a high ranking church official, who of course ended up his dad, then the dad later on basically came and demanded she give Doha to the church. He gave her practically pennies as compensation, as if mocking her, but she didn't have a choice and told herself that at least the church would be a better life...
SHE NEVER ABANDONED HIM. Doha's mom loved him! But how does Doha find out? The worst damn way. A bunch of old prostitutes mercilessly mock how his mom used to be, cackling about her misery, they're like "oh yeah and she's been dead for like a decade lol". They stand there cackling and mocking the dead mom he just found out loved him and wanted him, that she died sick and alone and miserable... he kills them. It's a momentary blur and the room is soaked in blood (so I mean, it was fast). He stumbles out of there in rage and despair, only to see FL had come to find him.
It's either in the hotel room or in the bloody room he leaves, BUT- he dropped the locket he snatched from ML during their fight. She sees it and realizes Doha had been keeping her from ML and that ML was the one to have injured him previously.
Okay, and technically this is something that happens AFTER the latest chapter:
Sooo... They leave the city (this was definitely the final leg of their trip and after the drama about the mom). They're finally going to the furthest desert city. They take a long trip (supposed to take up to 2 weeks i think??) through a stormy desert area, heavily infested with monsters. A while into the trip, when monsters are attacking (though they kinda always are occasionally), FL decides it's an opportunity for their confrontation.
She's like "oh yeah, so you were clearly lying to me about my guy... and you used seriously strong magic before. You're a total liar and I'm finishing my trip alone". Our currently very-traumatized-and -vulnerable Doha is like "hold up, I know I lied, but you promised to be here for me and I'm not letting you go". They have a showdown with their magic, but Doha NEVER CAUSES HER THE SLIGHTEST HARM, he just breaks down and tries to keep her from leaving. She, however, is beating him to a pulp. As he's crying and confessing he's in love with her... the FL purposely deals him a killing blow. Literally purposely kills him while he cries and says he loves her.
She doesn't shed a tear or feel guilt, but she uses a touch of magic so he dies slower (or maybe to keep his corpse from rotting too quick). She leaves his dead body laying there and goes to the next city alone. She doesn't feel bad or anything though, because she's like "since he lied about his status and was secretly in love with me, he was never my friend anyway. I only killed a stranger, not a friend".
I, of course, sobbed. And hated her. Still hate her. She feels like a total sociopath to me. I only kept reading because I desperately wanted to see if Doha somehow survived?? I couldn't stand it ending like that.
Much bigger spoiler for way later:
Doha barely survived the fight... but decides to let her go and be happy. He lets her continue to believe he's dead. He goes after the church instead, getting revenge for what happened to his mom. After he gets revenge on the people who wronged him and his mother, he spends years being chased around by assassins (because, I mean, the church is pissed off at him for all that). At one point he decides to let the assassins kill him.. because dang, his life felt like only suffering and loneliness, FL accidentally saves him. She's like "ew, you're alive?", he sobs while apologizing for his lies in the past, and she's like "whatever. I better never see you again" and leaves.
There's some more later on, but at this point I am HORRIFIED by 1) how far I've spoiled 2) the depth of my spoilers and 3) realizing how much time and energy I just spent ranting about a book character. So I have gotta stop. Omg. I think I've finally lost my last bit of sanity. ┗( T﹏T )┛
Oh, shoot, quick correction about the mom-
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I believe the mom had died shortly after Doha was taken away BECAUSE she wanted to get him back. She was asking people if they knew Doha, her son, where he could be and what he was doing, etc.. and the high ranking church people decided to kill her to protect the dad's reputation. Maybe she got sick and died before they killed her... but yeah, I think I had remembered wrong and the church had gotten rid of her.
You must really love Doha. The way you're portraying him as a victim is crazy. He lied to her from the beginning, never was her friend, lied to her about ML, purposely keeping them apart behind the scenes all bc he wanted her. He's selfish. You say it's ok he did those things bc he loved her and was protecting her but no it's not OK spreading rumors that put the FL and OTHER GIRLS in danger just bc he'll "protect" her and he loves her. I don't see how you see all his manipulation and go "wow he didn't deserve that and FL should have been nicer to him"
I love you so much because you just gave me an excuse to rant about my boi some more and prove he's a total doll. I appreciate you boo. I'm having a drink with a friend but excited to respond to you soon.
Disclaimer: I'm 100% serious, I'm genuinely delighted and about to shove my phone in my friend's face
Both FL and Mr. Second ML are big liars. She puts ML through the wringer when it comes to leading him on and making him think their relationship is secure and real. Then she runs away after also being dishonest about her motives and intentions. There’s room for grey area in each of these different characters. But tbh, he’s a more compelling and round character than our FL. Every member of the main trio is a victim to someone, but only Doha and FL are perpetrators of another person’s suffering. Saying “You know, I think it was fucked up for her to be trying to kill him” is not playing the victim. Violence to that degree just because she got separated from her boo thing (whom she had already been running from) for a little longer is unnecessary. She could’ve just told him off and said she never wanted to see him again and that would’ve been justified. But trying to kill him??? That’s a bit far
Sorry, I'm back! Some alt chicks saw my mystic messenger lockscreen and before I knew it, I was drunk and talking Black Clover, so I forgot this thread existed. So anyway-
Hun, if you were one of the most famous people on the continent and also used by everyone your whole life, you likely wouldn't freely tell people your identity the moment you meet. I mean, if Stephen King told someone 'oh yeah, I like to write... you can call me Steve' and always laughed it off when asked about it 'oh, haha, you know, just write some fiction for a living...', yeah it would feel like a major lie when you finally saw a picture of him online. You'd freak, sure, BUT... I don't imagine you'd kick him out of your life over it, much less unalive the dude by force. Even if Stephen King admitted he had a crush on you and didn't want you to go back to your ex. (I know he's happily married, I'm just trying to roll with it, cut me some slack).
In addition, he didn't want to draw attention because he was curious in general and saw an opportunity to pop over for a job and satisfy his curiosity. He didn't think that quick gig would dump a demi-god-level-purifier in his lap. But it would've been weird to tell her "oh and BTW I'm actually the person taking over as literal pope, just wanted to get a look at y'all. You're as strong as I am and dying (in case ya didn't know) but let's be buddies. If you let me touch you regularly, I'll totally heal your otherwise-impossible-to-fix terminal illness". Things would've gotten so complicated and awkward, and goodbye to any chance of building a normal friendship. She's the only person in the world strong enough to heal him, AND he has the chance to see her repeatedly to save her. If he went "Oh BTW I'm basically pope and half-lied to get in here lol, but you're 1 in a billion strong and I wanna see you a ton because I can ~totally~ save you, pinky swear"... ML WOULD LAUNCH HIM OUT THE GATE. The whole thing sounds wild. Instead, he quietly saved her life (again, which would've been hard to believe was even possible), taught her a million amazing things, supported her, protected her, saved her life another time or two, etc etc.
If this was a story where a prince pretended he was a commoner and fell for someone, we wouldn't be mad that he didn't introduce himself as the prince. We'd think it was sweet that they fell for each other as people and didn't let status get in the way or whatevs. Personally? If I were him, I'd be afraid to fess up because I simply have no social skills. Admitting tiny lies and mistakes? I wanna crawl in a hole and disappear forever.
The only lies he did about ML were literally just delaying her going back to him. They were gonna return eventually, he even agreed to it, he just wanted to have a chance to be closer to her first. And yeah, he manipulated the situation to sound worse about ML after her life... but 1) ML easily could've become one of those MLs, his personality is so close that even she thought he could've gone that way 2) again, there really were people putting up posters saying they were after her and some of those people really were aiming to kill her (or worse) after finding her 3) the ML was really searching for her and some of his own knights thought it was out of anger and 4) other people were actually harming chicks who looked like her for a reward. ML had enemies already doing all of that.
YES Doha was like "well gee, there's a rumor ML is behind some of that..." but Doha had NOTHING TO DO with ML's enemies starting and doing all that. He had helped spread the rumor with the ML's knights, but not one time did Doha his self ever tell anyone to look for or harm anyone. He tried to make the ML look suspicious so she wouldn't run right back. Yes, we could definitely say that he was negligent of harm when bad folk took the rumors too far, and yes, could even be charged with basically inciting shit. And yes, since he knew the rumors were false, he was lying by pretending he didn't know better. Going "I didn't know the rumor was a lie~ whoops, I shouldn't have told others or you, but I didn't know~". It's petty and manipulative and creepy and very incel neckbeard creep behavior... but... not worthy of being violently murdered by the person you love and your body left to be eaten by desert monsters. Like. Nearly ever person on this planet has done something several times worse, much less in their world. I mean. ML has killed thousands of people without guilt because 'welp, territory disputes and all... and I was cranky'. But slaughter Doha because he twisted rumors like he's the 4th chick from 'Mean Girls'? Come on.
But, I mean, yeah. Hasn't everyone tried to get closer to their unrequited love in weird, desperate ways? You think it's NOT common for someone to go "Oh, you're thinking about trying to work things out? Uuuuhhh... well... I think y'all need space!! Your ex is probably sooo mad. And didn't your say your ex was maybe dating someone already?? Maybe they are! I think I heard something about that, maybe. Hang out with me for a while instead, I'll help you feel better, then you can think about it again <3". I've 'accidentally' run into people by taking a different path and "Oh haha funny seeing you here" or whatever...
But I don't think I deserve to be beat up, murdered, and left to rot and get eaten by monsters... just... giiirl.
And remember!! He's saved her life a ton of times in addition to everything else he did, like simply being there for her or teaching her stuff without expecting anything back. That has to earn, what, a brownie point per saved life? Enough to not deserve being murdered, right?? I figured, anyway.
Ah, hell, I need to finish and stop. I wish I didn't have that double shot espresso.
It's funny you're mentioning it being crazy to frame Doha as a victim... because I mean... girl he was a prostitute's kid and already dealing with several kinds of neglect and abuse before being an actual CHILD HUMAN TRAFFICKING VICTIM and abused by the church... the whole time being told he was SOLD by the only person he had, when REALLY his mom was forced and then murdered just for asking about him too much.
Early life he only hurts people as defense in extreme situations, and yeah he grew numb and morals stopped mattering very much. That's very, very common with all VICTIMS of childhood trauma and abuse. And yes I think being abused your whole life means you were a victim of abuse. That's. Kind of how it works.
Doha needed a mountain of therapy, sure. And yeah, becoming a yandere towards the only person who has ever been nice to you... because most people buy you, sell you, beat you, starve you, and assault you in 20 ways since birth... I'd go yandere, too! Someone doesn't have the intention to use me against my will, just wants to hang with me for me? They just smile at me and wanna do stuff as buddies???
Doha did what I would do (and actually do). He desperately gave her all he could without driving her away. He tried to be worthy of a place in her life. Hey, boo, that cut looks bad, lemme clean/medicate/bandage it, I've got this prescription antibiotic ointment (literally me last night). Hey hun, you wanna know how to do blank?? I took college classes in that, when do you have time? You need a backrub? Cook you a meal? A ride somewhere? Do your taxes? Proofread your paper? Need to borrow $20??
Yeah. I think she could've 'been nicer' than... I dunno... 1st murder and no guilt. Like. You're definitely right. I do think "Doha didn't deserve that and FL should've been nicer". It's not a lot to ask when murder is the baseline. There's kinda nowhere to go from there but up.
This was fun, but if anyone asks for open ended defense again, I can't respond. I've surpassed the point of insanity already, clearly. Anyone still thinking "Nah but Doha deserved his fate" can read the book their selves or something.
I had to say THIS IS AWESOME. If you're like me and look at comments or topics before sampling a story, read this. It's legit so cute and funny and surprisingly feminist??
Immediately satisfying. By the end of the first chapter, I was grinning. By the end of the third chapter, it was giving cute romance~
Our gals are amazing... and Angel is so babygirl. Oomph. I should've started this ages ago.
They're being pretty straight forward. *sips tea*