meepmoop's Topics (88)

That never happened, i think you dreamt it. Kashima was the one that kissed Toono.

gurl you might just have seen the future

I hope so!

uh... it wasnt yaguchi who kissed toono it was kashima- like twice...

you couldn't have said that shit any better omg

Pfffft I stg if these people ruin yaoi (the only safe space I’ve had since I was like 13) I’m not gonna be happy lmfaoo I feel like u can just tell who they are by how surprised they are???? Like no one tell them about boku no pico they might pitch a fit hahahah

Damn y’all disliking this without actually debating my point you can be mad at the situation— I agree it’s frustrating for athy, but don’t project your anger into Jeanette. You know why you’re doing it? Because she’s a female. We’re taught to hate, scorn, jeer, and taunt at women just because they are pursuing what they want— because society thinks a woman’s place is in the home, quiet and yielding. Jeanette isn’t “in anyone’s way”, she wants to be family with who she thinks is her sister and father. I saw someone call her a “retarded bitch” which, first of all, now cool to use the word retarded as in insult and, second of all— LITERALLY HOW??? She gave athy, the one you Stan, a literal ROOF over her HEAD!! Why are y’all acting like a parent can only love one child!!! Why are y’all acting like she’s a love rival to athy (gross in literally all aspects!!!) why do you think she’s in the way!!! Someone explain it to me, cuz right now it looks like the only reason she’s being hated on is because she’s a woman. I swear if it was a boy that was “oblivious and clumsy” (like the emperor tbfh) y’all would be DROOLING!!! Stop bringing down other women because somethings not going your way!! I know this is fiction, but so often our perceptions of stories translates into our real life actions so if y’all act like this towards real women I’m so fucking disappointed smfh if someone wants to debate me on this and make actual sense of why they hate Jeanette I’d love to hear it

if she was a male, can you also claim the hate is cause she is a "female"? omg ε=ε=(ノ≧∇≦)ノ that kind of dump. but whatever makes you happy ╮(￣▽￣)╭

has for the hate, I think people just got tired of her. not that I hate her, but I do get very frustrated with her now and how much suffering she brings to Athay.
and not cause she is woman or a man, but cause she will keep making Athay suffer. and yeas it is frustrating to read! let people hate who they want to hate and don't read the comments it makes you mad like this.

I think you're reaching. But I do agree that a lot of peoples critique for female characters boils down to their dislike of women. That's not really debatable but I don't think the discussion is as simple as 'oh you don't like Jeanette and you're reasonings are rooted in misogyny'

We can have a discussion about how society frames female characters as a whole and the way strength is attached to female characters to.mske them appear more powerful. Fine. but you're not about to turn people disliking Jeanette into a social commentary on misogyny. I'd agree that you can make the comment that claude is socially inept and has been from the beginning and that people don't pay attention to his behaviour because he's male , that's fair but they doesn't mean that people that dislike Jeanette are misogynistic. Delving into why people often cosign the behaviour of characters like Claude or any of the other people that share his personality type would be interesting but it becomes less valid when you try to invalidate people's dislike for another character .

The emperor and Jeanette are two very different characters that just have similar attributes so I don't really see you comparison. People dislike her because she's a ditz and she has 0 social awareness. If you think those reasons aren't valid enough and you still like her that's great but it doesn't mean people aren't correct for finding her annoying. It's exactly the way that in more romance focused fantasy people usually dislike characters that lack social awareness and are always pushing what they want onto other people.

Her personality archetype isn't one that's usually liked in my opinion 'pushy' characters that don't notice the feelings of the people around them have rarely been popular unless used for comedic effect. This isn't the only example of people not liking characters that are in some way intruding or disrupting the relationship of the main characters. People don't like naive characters (There is some merit to the argument that naive female characters are used as plot filler and naive male characters are used as comedy).

She's not the only female character that wants to be loved this genre is very literally about characters that typically have horrible upbringings that cause them to act out and then ultimately leads to their death. The entire shoujo reincarnation trope is about people that want to be loved whether it's familial or romantic. It's not like Athy is particularly strong either other than being the main character and therefore having a lot of people around her.

Jeanette isn't the type of character I like anyways I'm not into the naive ditsy my biggest defining character is my want for other people to except me it's not my thing . Claude isn't even the type of character I like so I don't care about him either. People are going overboard and some people are just being dramatic to make the comments more fun so some of the hate she gets is uncalled for I think that's fair but to say it's all rooted in misogyny isn't accurate either.

If you wanted to use the misogyny argument I'd direct it towards the author. Jeanette is a throwaway character. Her only defining character trait is linked to other people. Other than being ' nice ' and wanting a family there's nothing to her character and that's not necessarily fair on her. She deserves character development and characterization that is independent of the fact she wants to be accepted by the emperor.

I understand your disappointment and I get why you feel the way you do. You're absolutely correct that the way people see characters does somehow tie into the way they see the people around them. But I don't think it's all as black and white as you're making it out to be

Lol you want a rebuttal that bad huh? Alright I'll give it to you. True, so far in the manhwa, it hasn't been shown/proven if jeanette has ever really done something "bad", but can you really call being ignorant is not something bad? To me, it's bad. And apparently many people has the same opinion as I do. If you're still wondering why people are calling her ignorant even though (in your eyes) she's only a sweet little girl who just wants love and get close to her father and sister, then let me remind you this. Despite knowing the awful situation between athy (her sister) and claude, she only spoke and acted ever so cheerfully bragging in front of athy's face about how well her "relationship" had become with claude. Need I also remind you about how long athy had spent her days in jeanette's house and how long it took her to finally show athy some sympathy and actually try talking things over with claude about athy? If anything, even though a child might not be able to think abstractly, a child should've been able to show sympathy to such delicate situation, not being ignorant, especially if that child is oh-so-very-kind-and-innocent.

There's a lot of stories where the brother is doted on more than the sister because he is a male. If Jeanette was a boy, than Claude would just look misogynistic, but male Jeanette would still be hated. Anything disrupting their relationship is going to be hated. I dont think the readers are mysoginist, because Athy is the opposite of quiet and yielding, and shes the reason most readers like the story. Besides I love Athy because as a woman she didnt need a man to be satisfied with herself, unlike Jeanette who doesnt feel complete without a man's attention, be it Claude, the ml, or her actual father. Shes always looking to men as a way to self validate, which will never end well. My biggest issue is that she doesnt even like Claude, she just wants attention, they could have literally picked any man, said that's your father, and she would have started trailing after for self fulfillment. She doesnt care about Claude or Athy, but an idealized version of 'family' since she felt alone growing up. Meanwhile Athy, who truly grew up alone in her first life, didnt try to get Clauds attention to feel better about herself, she didn't do that with any male, she formed real relationships, looking at the individual, not at their title or role. I think Jeanette is very self centered, maybe not on purpose but that makes her hurt those around her. Like saying 'what if I was your real sister', and getting hurt, even when she knew Athys life was currently being targeted, and her father treating her like trash was emotionaly crippling her, she didnt think about it, and just wanted her to say oh I'd love that, regardless of the situation. At worst selfish, at best childish, but it is still hurting others merely for her own gratification. She needs to stop basing her self worth on others and seeing people as roles, sister role, father role, etc. I hate it when people do this. She only seeks their attention because she thinks it's her sister and father, not because she liked them. If you found out Claude was your father would you want a closer relationship? Any sane person, would say, no way in hell, just like Athy did. Which is why I respect her and not Jeanette. Crap that was long, just my two cents but that's why i dont think Jeanette haters are mysoginist. Though I didn't read all the comments and im sure some people are pry ruder than necessary ╮(￣▽￣)╭

You all raise some very good points!! I appreciate all the well thought out rebuttals and explanations! I can’t respond to each one of you individually right now because I gotta do some organic chemistry work, but I will try to get around to writing some more thoughtful replies tomorrow if I get the time! Genuinely thank you for sharing your thoughts with me! As of right now, I still maintain the same opinion but perhaps I didn’t phrase it as eloquently as I should have to get my point across! I’ll get to tackling that tomorrow too (●'◡'●)ﾉ

Ikr,,, I get that she is really oblivious at times, but you can tell she's a sweet person by nature and just wants the best for Athy and everyone around her.. It makes me feel so bad for her that she's pretty much being used as a weapon and therefore is seen and someone evil :"0

Wants the best for Athy? More like she just wants everyone to love her. If she really wanted the best for Athy she wouldn't have showed off about how she was getting along so well with her father when Athy was sad because her father whom she loved forgot about her. She wouldn't get upset when Ezekiel (?) payed the slightest amount of attention to Athy, a 10 year old girl who didn't have anywhere to go and basically didn't have a family. The fact that she's being used as a weapon is the last reason i dislike her, She's just dumb and selfish in general and the reason people hate her is because of herself, not because she's being used.

they are all biased, they will continue to put their emotions before logic and and hate the character. you not wrong its pretty disheartening to see so much female resentment towards a female character lol

Well just stating my opinion here but I won't really say all who hate her or most are misogynistic but what I do see is that most or at least so far what I had saw is that many dislike/hate her because she is dense and i would say a self centred person. But honestly even then i still can understand her behaviour as firstly it had been shown many times that whenever she ask athy about her feelings and stuff, athy always replied in a assuring way. Not to mention that she was locked in the mansion for her whole life? Thus, her social awareness is pretty much lacking which explains why she is not very emotionally understanding or empathetic. Unless she is told directly like how she had been treated by the Mr white and his son, it quite hard to grasp the true feelings of athy. Unlike we readers who can see the thought process of all the characters. I mean I am not defending her selfishness and childishness but just stating it should be quite understandable regarding the way she behaves and act but since she fails to make the intellectual leap that we were expecting I guessed that made it worse. Also since we have been with athy longer, we tend to sympathize with athy more and also view Jenette as a threat because of the previous novel plot, I am not saying all are, but some of the people. Since you know this previous protagonist turn to be evil person plot has been going on alot.Another could be that she does not really have much foundation as a character but more of just a tool that creator use for the drama as being like the third wheel to create more tension between her and athy. Sadly this has caused her to be the target of people's frustrations as the story is unwinding very slow and painful.At the end of the day, we all are entitled to our own opinion whether they hate her without any valid reasons or not. But still was kinda hoping people won't dislike her that much, you know? I kinda grew on her so.. and I do like her innocence I guess....╮(￣▽￣)╭

On this point of seeking validation from family members or other people is normal. I mean I am surprised by why you are arguing almost as if she shouldn't do that, because at least most of us do seek validation from other be it just being a child or an adult. The reason why she seek from others is to feel loved and wanted. I mean since she was a child she did not have any form of real love as the Whites are only using her for their plan. It natural to feel the need to be acknowledged and love by other, especially being deprived of love since your young. Also for athy the reason why she hated firstly that claude was her father was because she knew the novel's plot so obviously it made sense that she wouldn't want it, unlike jennette who doesn't know have the context on what type of person claude is. It natural to have hope and expectation on what she want claude as a father and to feel the need to be close with her 'real' family. Another reason why she is so stuck up on 'real' family is that, it was shown in the manga that the reason why she can't fit in with the whites are cuz she is not their real family, thus came to a conclusion that she will only be truly loved and fitted in when she meet her real family. I do find that she was certainly being quite insensitive when she told athy about spending time with claude. But even then I would say it not totally wrong for her to feel the need to share her joy of being a step close to her 'father's but just that she has very low social awarness and can't really control her own thoughts and feeling because of her upbringing but even then she is quite self centred. I mean to compare her with athy is a bit of a stretch as like your basically comparing someone who had almost no social interaction out of the mansion for her whole life and only longing for real family love vs. Athy who have the maturity of a reincarnated person, emotionally and mentally.To add to that she also knows the plot. So its obvious how different they will act. I am just sharing my opinion on ur thoughts, I am not saying ur wrong for thinking this way. It's just that i felt the need to say my point which i feel have the answer to some of your point. (⌒▽⌒)

I see your point, and yes I am arguing that she shouldn't seek validation from people simply because they are her father or sister. She should seek validation from people who she respects and has a relationship with. I know my opinion might not be popular, but I came from an abusive and toxic 'real' family, and had to relearn what a healthy relationship was as I got older. Yet continuously hearing 'but their your father' or 'their your sister' or 'their your real family', from people who know nothing about the situation, only that those people were my blood relations, makes me nauseous. I dont feel someone having sex makes someone a decent person. And yet this is the only act required to become a parent or sibling. I wish people wouldn't look at anothers role, but how they actually treat other people. People are harmed from a fantasized view on 'family', and Jeanette is a great example of that, harming herself and others because of it. I honestly forgot Athy had her 'real world' memories, which makes sense why she is so much more mature. But in reality a person like Jeanette can be dangerous when they have projected their ideals onto others and want them to be a certain role. Sometimes they can accept that they were wrong and mature from it, but others can get trapped by it, and fail to view an objective reality, they simply keep seeking validation from a source that will never reciprocate, causing the person to emotionally break down over time. I know I'm biased because I also watched this growing up, but either way it's not good for the people involved. At best shes just unstable which is understandable. Mainly I want Claud and Athys relationship fixed, and I dont find it misogynist to want the problem gone. 'Real' family is not all that its cracked up to be, it's only people connected from having sex, and so I find her character very annoying and painful. I usually avoid conversations on family, since I know my opinions are not the norm, but since you have been earnestly explaining your opinion, I wanted to do the same. I hope we can agree to disagree at the end of the day (⌒▽⌒) since I do enjoy intelligent debate and know we all have different experiences

Ah thanks for the reply. Since I never had thought it from that view, ur reply was quite a eye opener and I do understand your point. Yep although we still have our own views it good to have it talk over with more mutual understanding.(⌒▽⌒)

Yep all good ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~ Thanks for hearing me out and listening to my opinion

How the fuck did you reach to that conclusion? Everybody is doing their best to explain why they dislike or why they understand Jeanette AS A HUMAN BEING, yet you could only generalized everybody who dislikes her by saying that they hate her cuz she is A FEMALE? Are you a moron or something? Looks like you're the sexist one here for thinking that way. You should've a least read or try what others are trying to say and not just jumped into such stupid conclusion.

Exactly as you said that it is very understandable that Jeanette is lacking in social awareness due to the fact that she has been locked in the house and has not had many chances to interact with other people. However, it doesn't justify the her ignorance. Just like how understandable someone who has experience of being bullied would bully someone else to make themselves feel better, it doesn't mean that the act of "bullying" itself is an okay thing to do. Everything that is understandable doesn't always mean that it is a right/good thing to do, which is why many people dislike Jeanette for her ignorance and her lacking in social awareness. And it doesn't mean that the people who dislike her for reasons I had said do not feel bad nor sympathize at all over the fact that a child is being locked up and used as a weapon. It is a sad thing BUT again, that does not justify her ignorance and lack of social awarenes. Especially the way how she obliviously makes Athy feel uncomfortable and sometimes hurt by her, well, obliviousness.

Omg I love how you deliver your rebuttals! It is perfectly in sync to what I've been thinking and what I was trying to say! Just like what you said, people who dislike Jeanette dislike her because she is self-centered, oblivious, and lacking in social awareness, thus she makes people around her feel uncomfortable and even hurt sometimes. What I don't get is how there are still people who assume that whoever dislikes Jeanette must be misogynist Like, is that how narrow-minded they are? Aren't those kind of people (who go around judging others for being mysogynist without trying to understand the reason) the one who are actually sexist for thinking that way in the first place? I mean, did they even try to read or understand other people's opinions before jumping into stupid conclusion and labeling everyone who dislike Jeanette as shallow people who hate her just cuz she is a female?! Gaaah I hate how shallow and narrow-minded people can be.

Okay, finally have a bit of time to sit down and write my thoughts out more clearly (going to be a bit short because I still have a lot of work to do) but sorry I can't respond to everyone individually! But thank you all for participating in constructive conversation, I think these are all very good to have. Perhaps I came out swinging a bit too hard at first, haha. Firstly, I initially used the phrase everyone to describe who is hating Jeanette as misogynistic. That was incorrect. I see that there are people who hate Jeanette who aren't basing it on their own internalized misogyny and I apologize if I accidentally threw you into that category, HOWEVER if you read this post and took it as a personal attack ("i'm not misogynistic! you are! You saying this makes you sexist! you! you! you!" @hana lmfao) then this actually IS about you. If it didn't apply to you in the slightest, you wouldn't have taken offense to it. It's like a POC making a white people joke. I don't take offense to it and can laugh at it because I know that I don't do shit like that and an oppressed minority is allowed to laugh at their oppressors expense. If you're offended by someone calling your mindset sexist, then maybe your foundation isn't as strong as you believe it to be. Trying to spin the narrative in a way that makes me, someone pointing out how there is a large audience using sex-based slurs (bitch, cunt, whore, slut, etc.) to describe a young girl trying to fit in with her family as me actually being the sexist one to even CONSIDER the possibility is gaslighting and manipulation. If I have a foundation for my argument and am actively trying to combat sexism (make people do a double-take on their current perceptions and perhaps reevaluate why they actually hate the character) then, genuinely, you can call me sexist until you are blue in the face but I will know deep down that even if I just managed to make one person realize that they were succumbing to internalized misogyny, I've done enough.
Following up on my previous point about Jeanette not getting half of this hate if she was a boy: yes, this is unfounded. Yes, people hate Jeanette because she's "ignorant", because she seems "self-centered", if she was a son she'd be treated the same, great. You're right. However, the fact of the matter is people are using terms like "bitch" and "whore" to insult her. If she was a male character (a son) people wouldn't be saying he was a little bitch or a little whore. People would say "hey, this guy's annoying" IF they said anything at all. In all likelyhood, if Jeanette was a male character people would probably fucking SHIP him with Athy for goodness' sake. But herein lies the problem: Jeanette is a female character. You can deny this point all you want, but the glory is that we will genuinely never know what the audience reaction would be if Jeanette was a male. So, maybe my predictions wouldn't be true! But, notice how nobody called Lucas ignorant? How he was gone for so long, not having any contact with Athy, could have solved all of this earlier if he had just visited, but no one is blaming him? Notice how Claude did this too himself-- knowing helping Athy control her magic would be at his own expense-- got into a situation where he literally has no recollection about his own daughter, but no one is calling him ignorant? Couldn't this have been fixed if he helped Athy control her magic in a different way? Notice how no one is calling the right-hand man (what's his name??) ignorant? He knows the whole situation start to finish but didn't go out of his way (like Jeanette did) to help Athy find a comfortable living arrangement. Why is he exempt? Why is literally every single character who is given a kind personality exempt except for Jeanette? I also must ask, how old is she? 14/15? She's a young girl, for christ's sake. Athy has an entire past life where she lived to be 20(? haven't read the start in a while), and on top of that has lived to be her current age. Why are we expecting Jeanette to have the same mental maturity that Athy has? She knows way less about the situation than Athy (who literally read about her own life in a book, and isn't telling Jeanette anything about the situation!! share your feelings girl, talk it out and you could resolve some of this!) does, so maybe she is ignorant but is that her fault? Why does she need to be smart? Also, self-centered? Isn't everyone self-centered at 14? It's a crucial point in your life when your determining your morals and who you are as a person. Why is it seen as selfish when she puts herself first? What's wrong with wanting love!! Wanting to be loved and approved of (especially as a child) is a basic human instinct! We want to fit in, we want to belong, we want to feel safe!
And the family situation, I get that not everyone comes from a good family or wants approval from their family (trust me, I myself come from a now 14-year divorce and some pretty toxic family members), but I think MORI HUU put it in a really awesome way!
In short, I think that there is non-sex-based hatred for Jeanette, but genuinely I do think a lot of the hatred stems from her being a projection of what a lot of younger female readers have been taught a girl "shouldn't be", henceforth being a product of internalized misogyny (which isn't inherently wrong! most girls are raised to be internally misogynistic because of the unfortunate global political climate, i just think it's a matter of acknowledging it and trying to grow out of it to learn new ideals!). She shouldn't seek "love", she shouldn't seek "attention", she shouldn't be "ignorant" and always make sure she's "socially aware". She's a little girl, cut her some slack. These are basic human conditions, the want to be loved, approved of, and acknowledged. We're not born knowing everything and if someone doesn't tell us about a situation, how are we expected to know about it? Intuition can only tell us so much! So I'm not asking for people to stop disliking Jeanette, but I'm asking for people to look inside themselves and maybe ask why they started to hate her in the first place. Why does her advocating for herself get on their nerves? Would they do the same if they were in her situation: blind and without a family? Where does your hatred and cruel words come from? Why are you calling a made up 14 year old a cunt because she doesn't understand a situation no one has sat her down and explained to her?
Hope this made sense and made people think! Again, thanks to those of you that tried to make a productive conversation! I really enjoyed it!

Thanks! I'm glad I explained it well (⌒▽⌒) I don't normally debate but being thought of as a mysoginist made me want to clear the air. The angst in this story is no joke, plus hearing people defending the girl hurting Athy and making Claude sick just riles everything up more. I feel like if the situation didn't drag on so long then she wouldn't be so disliked, but as it is, everytime Janette appears she keeps stabbing an already open wound, so I'm not sure if her likeability can be salvaged at this point. Personally I don't think acting nice so that people like you, actually makes you a nice person. She even seemed upset instead of happy for Athy when she was actually helped by the ml (when he gave her a place to stay). There's also a lot of 'dumb/naive' characters that just act that way so they can get away with their insults, when in reality their doing it on purpose. I think that would resonate with readers as well. Regardless of gender, at this point her character is without a doubt causing problems (intentionally or not) and I don't see a problem with disliking it. Hopefully this will eventually get across, but liking or hating her should be up to the individual, i think readers should be allowed to hate a character, just as they can love others ╮(￣▽￣)╭ it's a story for entertainment after all, I'm sure the author added her in as a stressful character on purpose, though I really want her to move far far away ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~

totally agree!!! thank you for saying what I was thinking ლ(´ڡ`ლ)

Ahem just saying, after I read ur comment I do see ur point on it. Yes I agree with you on that part that just because she is brought up that way, some of her actions aren't justifiable and that just because people dislike her does not feel bad for her. But on the part of like making athy feel uncomfortable and sometimes hurting her feelings, doesn't it also lies on athy too? Like what I meant is that if athy felt hurt by jennette's actions or words, she should also state it. In a sense you can't keep blaming on the person who is being insensitive but to solve this I feel athy has to play her part by also showing or at least telling her real feelings. But instead in the manga, countless times athy had always gave responses that did not match her real inner thoughts and feelings. Her responses usually reassure jennette. So it's almost impossible to change the way she act or do as no one is really telling her how they really feel. I mean I don't think it's right for us to expect her to magically understand what she is saying is insensitive or wrong. So in the end I am not saying its athy or jennette fault but the misunderstanding and problems are continuing because one is too dense and lack social awareness, another doesn't speak up or share on her real feelings.
This cause the problem on one side unknowingly hurting her and another side hurting without anyone knowing, well expect us obviously. I mean I am just stating on this point but I do really agree on your point and I believe that everyone are entitled to their own opinion. ╮(￣▽￣)╭

"hearing people defending the girl hurting Athy and making Claude sick" your blaming her for something she neither knows about, nor is responsible for? are we forgetting the one who made the magic hurting claude now, is his brother? yeaa dont know how he gets out of all of this smelling like a rose while his 14 yr old daughter takes all the credit for his actions

I mean if I was Athay, and someone like a girl that come to steal my dad will say after my dad try to fucking kill me "ohh I have such a nice time with you dad. he talk to me and was super nice to me! ha ha ha I"m soo happy!"
I would be shocked and honestly give up on this person, like I know it's hard but common sense. you know, common sense not to talk about her dad right after he TRY TO KILL her! is it too much to ask? ╮(￣▽￣)╭

You cant equate disliking janette to defending claude or the brother. They weren't even part of the discussion. She is literally the girl hurting Athy and making Claude sick, even if she is unaware, it doesn't change the fact that she is being used for that purpose. I dont have to like someone simply because they are ignorant of their own environment. 14/15 is also not a child. People disliking jeanatte are in no way saying they like claude or the brother, they simply dislike janette. I'm allowed to dislike an ignorant person. Besides I dont think she is innocent, Athy believes she is innocent because she read the book. But there are things, like claude becoming sick, that were not mentioned in the book at all. Her character has not been tested, she simply acts nice to get people to like her, unlike say the evil claude who actually risked his life to save Athy, at least he cared about her safety and not just if she liked him or not. That's about the only thing hes got goin for him. He's psycho but he isnt fake. Besides, out of the tragic backgrounds for the characters, janette had one of the better ones. I dont like her because she seems to have a lack of empathy. That's it. No other reason but her flawed character. I dont need to list the reasons I dont like the brother, cause no ones defending him

Thanks! I'm glad you agree (⌒▽⌒)

"hearing people defending the girl hurting Athy and making Claude sick just riles everything up more. " perhaps the reason they defend her is because they realize none if it is her fault and they choose to hold the one who created such magic in the first place accountable for it, rather then victim blaming jennnette into oblivion xD just a thought

My theory: This is such a complicated story. I think Baron was trying to protect Jonathan when he found the notebook. He also probably had to take medicine bc he got hallucinations of Kister killing his brother. Robben is suspicious plus it would be crazy if he was the copycat bc he’s working on the case. I think they were trying to throw us off with Robert due to his backstory. He might be a perfectionist but I’m not sure if he’s the copycat. The Cicero seems to understand a lot about what’s happening w/ Jonathan so idk what’s up w/ him I still don’t trust him. It could have all been his plan + getting info from Jerome. And he did meet w/ Jon then Kister got a mysterious phone call. U never know. Also I do think maybe kister was framed/ possibly isn’t a serial killer. That suspicious phone call person[mystery person](could be a new character or someone we already know). Lastly there’s Jonathan nightmares. I don’t think those are normal I think he lost his memory. Maybe the real owner of the notebook was going after Jonathan. Kister was there (possibly saving him) and Jonathan thinks he’s the one who tried to kill him (subconsciously). And I think the Baron was also a witness that day. So 4 ppl could’ve been there at the time he fell from the cliff. Jon, Baron, Kister, and mystery person. But I think Robert was digging into what happened that day so he’s just causing trouble w/ finding out whose copycat or real killer[mystery person].
Thoughts on your theory:
I don’t exactly remember Robert being at the cliff. But he could be obsessed w/ Jon or is useful to him. I’m not completely taking him out of the suspects list. I just think the author is trying to throw us off so it’s a complete surprise. Either way if he was at the cliff he could be the copycat. But I’m not so sure that if there’s only one killer besides Kister around. It could be Robert, Robben, Cicero(doubtful atm), a mystery phone person. I’m completely ruling out Baron if he turns out to have killed to save his brother which was what I originally thought at the beginning. I’m going to be pissed. (He could have done this in order to kill Kister/ anyone who is after his brother.) also wanted to know about the name thing too.

No BS, I spit my soda out because this made me laugh so hard!!!! The brother is dead ass awful. Like you know he don't mess with you like that, especially in that way. He tryna live his life with someone he actually likes.

LMFAOOO I’m so sorry for ur loss
But MEGAAAA agree!!!! If ur brother runs away from u and cuts off all contact with you and moves into an apartment without telling you the address you’d think that maybe, just *maybe* my mans might take a goddamn hint good LORD