Raphael's Topics (96)

"Being the bottom doesn't make you less manly" <3
Just like being shorter or falling in love later than your partner doesn't make you the uke.
Or like being self-confident doesn't not make you a masochist in bed.
What do sex roles have anything to do with?

Yes, it's sexy and sweet at the same time.

I know right! Finally something different...!

Her aggressiveness is on point.

Totally.

I bet she's gonna do S&M stuff and piercing his nipples or his dick...
Whoaaa scarryyy... (≧∀≦)

Yaoi is a form of pornography and "forced intercourse", "domination" and even "rape play" are all fetishes. Fetishes portrayed in manga are there because they are popular with native readers. If these fetishes bother you, feel free to read something else, but DO NOT insult those who find this type of situation stimulating. One man's freak is another man's fetish.

It's not about insulting people who's not bothered by this work of fiction. Many people here trying to justify or disregard the rape. I think the video is intended to those people. It's rape and you should know it, and the warning should be on. I've read countless yaoi in my life and that didn't lower my morals, I don't get used to seeing rape and I don't think it's fine, even in a work of fiction. I'd expect people to be the same.
Just to put an example, maybe a person enjoys reading S&M novels. But they dont enjoy it if there's a rape, and they probably wouldn't be able to finish the book. If there wasn't mentioned as a warning, maybe they'd get angry. And that doesn't mean they have to accept it, o that they should stop reading the genre altogether, even if rape appears frequently in the genre. Some readers might not mind it, or even find it stimulating, but that would not change the fact that's rape. It's the same here.

Oh wow, I didn't intend to insult anyone's fetish. In no way have I indicated such. What I do find tiring is all this "doubtful consent" in yaoi. It is a very common theme. I enjoy yaoi. I enjoy gay romance. I even enjoy my fair bit of twisted yaoi.
I have no problem with people who love "doubtful consent", I'm just not one of them. I can appreciate it from time to time, but some mangaka try to play off the "doubtful consent" as consensual, because the partner got hard. That is not always the case if we bring real life in to this. The uke is drunk off his ass, and from my point of view the seme took advantage of that.
But this is yaoi. So some will say that I shouldn't expect that. Well why not? I enjoy that kind. Other people have every right to enjoy "doubtful consent" yaoi story. I am not judging. "Go read something else!" you may say. But almost EVERY yaoi is like this (not all, but many...). And often it is not marked or tagged, so avoiding it is pretty hard. This is tagged as "cute" and "romance". In my head "doubtful consent" and those tags do not go together, but I cannot and will not try to control how others view the manga.
And for me yaoi doesn't have to be just porn. I love yaoi with a good plot/story with some steamy sex on the side.

This became a wall of text, but I felt the need to explain myself since you accused me of "insulting" some people's fetish. I'm not trying to. But me having a different opinion is okay too.
On another note this was meant as a comment just to poke a bit of fun at the "if he gets hard it's consensual" thing that some yaois follow. The comment was not meant to be taken as seriously as you did. I apologize that it offended you, but please don't be so quick to judge me either and label me as someone who does not accept other's fetish (I have plenty of my own). We probably have very different views on things, I hope you'll accept and respect our differences. Though we probably have a different view on "doubtful consent" I do not judge you, because I understand that not everybody feels like I do about it.

Your opinion is fine for you to have and mine is fine for me. I'm simply stating that this genre is intended for mature adults - just like pornography - because it is pornography. Would you go to a porn site and talk smack about people who like to watch or have S&M sex? Maybe you might, because it doesn't fit inside your "little box" of acceptability. However, you may be limited in your "acceptable" fetishes" but others are not. "Rape" in yaoi and "rape" in other forms of pornography are not meant to be taken as "real". They are a fantasy - fiction. Rape is a criminal act, fantasy and fiction are not yet deemed criminal - though people with narrow minds would like to make it so. You say yourself that you "expect" people to think like you do - but we don't, not all of us.
I happen to LOVE rape play and forced intercourse, both in real life and in fantasy. I am also a rape survivor. By acting out what happened to me, I was able to come to terms with it. Is this how everyone should deal? NO. Each person has their own ways of handling everything. From sex and fantasy to how and what they should read. That is also why I don't appreciate those who condemn "rape" in this genre. Who is anyone to tell another what is "right" or "wrong" for them?!
The "rape" here and in pornography anywhere is NOT AT ALL RAPE - IT'S FICTION/FANTASY. Making your argument invalid.

Well and courageously stated. I would also add that the ravishment fantasy has been around forever and is a highly normative and important aspect particularly of female sexuality. Attempts to censor it out of fear of rape culture is actually giving in to rape culture and needs to stop.

Thank you so very much for your well written, insightful and respectful reply. I also apologize if my comment came off as harsh. This is not my first "rape" argument here and I was hasty and short with my words. I sincerely apologize. I thorougly respect your views and opinions on this subject and appreciate your respect for mine.
I must add that whether or not a yaoi manga has a plot does not change the fact that it is pornography - this is really a fact, not my opinion. Yaoi is, was and always will be pornography - and that is it's purpose (it's a good thing). I agree that it would be nice to have a better catagorization system, but the issue lies with what is considered the "point of no return" for consent. Since most readers of yaoi are female, we tend to be more sensitive to "consent" and "rape". Particularly western cultures - ever notice that most "yaoi rape" haters tend to be from western cultures vs Asian? Most, not all, but most Asian pornography involves some form of forced intercourse or forced petting. It is a cultural norm. Therefore, catagorising Eastern manga with "rape" as determined by western standards, would be difficult, since that is not how it is viewed there. I read the comments before I read the manga to ascertain if there are elements within that I will or won't like, but that is just how I deal. You may have other means.
Again, I sincerely apologize for my rash behavior and words. I should not have been so hasty as to accuse you of anything. Please forgive me. You seem to be an intelligent, mature and level-headed person and I lashed out without reason. I hope that we can discuss other topics amicably in the future. Thank you for your time and attention to both my original comment and this reply.

Thank you for your support and your clear and concise statement. Nothing could be more true than what you said.

Sorry to get off topic here. But you said you wanted yaoi with a story line.
Ever here about shounen ai?
It usually doesn't have that steamy sex you're looking for (well some do) but unlike Yaoi it's not all about the porn.
I usually read it when I'm in the mood.

Yeah, I know shounen-ai. I read it sometimes to if I'm really in need of a very plot-focused story. But I like my "steamy sex on the side" so I mostly prefer yaoi. ^^

I'm happy that we can "part ways" (as much as we can on the internet) on good terms. It's always refreshing to see someone with a different opinion than yourself that doesn't lash out. Thank you ^^. I've gotten some mean comments from my views before too.

For a change of topic, here is a book I think you would enjoy! It's not yaoi, but it is definetely pushing the boundaries of rape/"doubtful consent" and it's deliciously twisted.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7842653-special-forces---soldiers
It's called "Special Forces" and I would say it's not for the faint of heart.
I picked it up some years ago and had to put it back down because it was simply too much for me back then (I was even more against rape/"doubtful consent" back then than I am now). But I pickedd it up again and boy did I love it. You need to save it for a time where you're in the mood for something a bit dark.
I guess I'm weird, but I LOVE the super twisted yaoi and gay stories. I really recommend this book.

I was sexually assaulted and seeing this kind of shit makes me hiperventilate, it ruins my whole effing day and makes me want to hide under my bed all day. I've read that manga, I forget the name, Jack sth, and it was okay, because the rape isn't normalized, it's sick and crazy but there's no denial about that and it's enjoyable. I don't have anything against rape fetishes, but normalizing rape is never okay, you can't in any way, think any sort of healthy relationship can come out of rape. And if you do, sorry, but you're romanticizing.

I am sorry for the pain that you've had to endure. Surviving an experience like rape or sexual assault isn't something you do just in the time that the rape is happening. It is something you have to do everyday for the rest of your life. As you said, things trigger flashbacks. However, I would ask that you not assume that everyone deals with rape in the same way. You have what sounds like panic attacks when confronted with your flashbacks, where I respond with wishing I could be in the moment again so that I can change the outcome. This is how I got into "rape play" to begin with. A sex-friend and I re-enacted my rape and he let me change the outcome - many times. Sometimes I would fight and get away, sometimes I would give in and enjoy it, but every time we acted it out my mind was closer to being at peace. Now, I have no flashbacks at all. The real world is not as absolute as you would wish it to be. There are no answers set in stone. For YOU a healthy relationship is not able to blossom from rape, but I've met many rape victims who loved the men who raped them, dearly - enough to be married to them and stay that way. I'm sure that your views are a result of your anger over your experience and you have every right to be angry, but you don't have the right to assume that everyone thinks and feels the way you do. You claim to have "nothing against" rape fetishes, yet you go on to say that "normalizing rape is never okay" and "you can't think that way" and that thinking a healthy relationship can come out of rape is "romanticizing". This all may be very true for YOU, but it is far from true for me and others survivors like me.

Let me be clear about one very important point. I DO NOT condone the criminal act of rape or sexual assault. There is a vast difference between the criminal act of rape and the fantasy act of "rape play". There is an even bigger gap between the criminal act of rape and reading or writing about it.

Thank you for accepting my apology. And thank you for the recommendation. I have that audiobook and I love it as well. It seems our tastes are the same. I'm always in the mood for dark and twisted fiction - it makes the real world seem just a little bit less messed up.

I hate to bounce in on an old topic, and not trying to shame anyone (because I have many kinks, too) but I just wanted to say that just because something is the 'cultural norm' doesn't mean it shouldn't be scrutinized by other places. The world is now an opened place where different cultures can look on other cultures and go 'hmmm'. Which... sometimes isn't a bad thing. If forced intercourse and forced petting are the norm for most Asian porn, I would be the one to ask why. Who is directing it? Who is it for? How much support is offered when one actually does get raped in Asian countries in the real world (We've only just started to crawl out of the 'victim shuts their mouth' hole, maybe it's the same situation there though I wouldn't presume much)? Sooo I looked some up.
This is a bit of legislation I found. So in article 177 of the Penal Code it states rape is(ad-lib): A person who, using violence or threats, has sexual intercourse with a female person over the age of 13 shall be guilty of rape and shall be punished with imprisonment of at least three years.

As in... in our culture someone not backing out with a verbal 'no' (like we often see in manga) means that this is rape that can be prosecuted in our culture. The same standards don't apply to here where unless there is violent acts(I guess rape doesn't count as violence) or someone threatens you... which is sad. Like... it's sad. Also I guess you have to be a woman. This is the cultural norm for them, but it doesn't make it right humanely, you know?

Any time something is treated mostly across the board almost with the acceptance stick you have to look and see what is happening in societies (it was the cultural norm to have black and yellow face and media about how awful black people are or how 'goofy' Asians are, and it's not acceptable anymore. Societies change, should change). Sometimes it's none of our business, sometimes it's something serious like... it's fine to talk about it more. I think we need to talk about it more. And I know how like... annoying it is to bring it up Every Time when reading manga or whatever, especially when it might be a kink (in this case I'm not really sure anymore if it's rape play or fantasy or just treated as a thing that happens, which sucks a bit? I don't know, it's a tough call, cause the fact is maybe they don't label it as rape because society doesn't count it as rape or talk about it) but it's important to talk about it. And you know... stricter categorization wouldn't hurt anybody. It wouldn't make it like 'then there was No Rape in manga' just... it would be labelled. I like labels so I know what I'm getting in to.

Went on super long. Sorry sorry. Again not trying to shame anyone because I have some major kinks (that I would understand would need labels LMAO). But I just wanted to address the culture difference thing because we really really should, as a whole big open world, listen to advice or take things from other cultures if it'll benefit and make things better for people in general.

I think it is important to recognize the distinction between what we see as "kinks" and fantasies and actual criminal acts. The line between fantasy and reality is a broad one when dealing with these situations. Could I - a person who enjoys "rape play" and ravishment in my fantasies - stand by and allow the actual crime of rape be perpetrated either on me or on another? The answer is a resounding NO. What we read, watch, perform in "sex games" and fantasize about does not translate to the real world. IRL it is a crime. The problem does not lie with the fantasy act or the person fantasizing. It lies in the troubled mind of those who can not separate fantasy and reality. Rape happens, not because people fantasize about it, read about it, watch it, pretend it... it happens when a man forceably - by physical harm, threat, coersion or manipulation - has sex with a woman. Why only women you ask? Because legally there is a term for sex with a man - Sodomy. What is unfair is that jail terms for sodomy are significantly lower than those for rape. Sodomy also does not have to be done by force to be a crime. If two men who love each other have sex, they can be charged with sodomy. This is what is unfair. Not that people read about or watch rape themed porn.

Labels are helpful in some senses, but your version is too complicated. The label is subjective. What you call rape, I call ravishment. What you call S&M, I call light B&D. Labels that are generalized work fine - Yaoi, Shota, Romance, Horror, Drama... Labels for each and every trope would make things far too confusing. Not everything fits neatly into a little box.

Oh, just read the follow up on this one-shot. Seems the seme regrets hurting my Mu...
My rage is calmed, but not forgotten.

still l can not feel love from the seme and seme kissing other girl and saying hurtful things haaa so hard

Follow up what follow up I wanna read!!!

Love makes you do and think REALLLLLY STUPID THINGS! Its a chemical thing that makes you forgive someone easily if you love them : / (︶︿︶)＝凸