Aurinne's Topics (109)

That was really helpful to know

Spoiler
The boss in the restaurant the uke of sorenari works is the older brother of one of the new parents in this history

Oooh thanks! I did consider that the guy and the chef boss looked sameish (although a lot of the time that's merely a manga artist's drawing style), but since one obviously can't cook and the other obviously can, I knew they weren't the same person! I liked Chef boss.

I don’t quite get your point ? Presumably, the men have to dress up as well, and dresses themselves are usually very comfortable (I’m a bit irritated with the corset scene in fact, as tight-lacing is actually a cliché, and corsets are quite confortable). The question of gender is clearly not even a factor into this story, so all of this talk of « empowerment » seems quite out of place. This story is not « becoming » anything different than what it was at the beginning, new elements are introduced that you personally dislike. Of course, your taste is your own, and that is perfectly fine, but I don’t think your framing is fair.

No, it's fine if you disagree. I'm not asking anyone else to, just felt a bit annoyed and wanted to say my feelings.

Your point about the men also having to meet the dress and etiquette requirements is fair, however men's clothes in this story are inherently more practical and, primarily, my point is that the MC is a modern female in a story created by a modern person for a modern audience.

I don't necessarily have a problem with the fact that the men or women who already exist in the world that has been created for this story have certain things they must conform to (dress, etiquette etc.). I'm not arguing against these points within the world itself. I'm merely very, very tired of this type of world being the one created for a modern female audience. I PERSONALLY was enjoying that the MC in this story didn't have to follow this path, and that is the main reason I was enjoying and persisting with a story that is otherwise very similar to many others.

Hm, I'll try to put it another way. For most of the story, the MC prospers and earns respect/admiration/friendship through her natural personality and her intelligent and persistent work. I was enjoying that compared to stories where the female MC finds herself in a similar situation but instead has storylines along the lines of "I will become the best Duke's daughter!" or "I will become successful in society and marry a great person!" and variatioins of this. Yes, there're clearly hints of romance in this, but it's coming out mainly through interactions due to her work or interests. Again, I've been really enjoying that.

Now, within the context of the world of this story, I'm not arguing that the efforts the MC is going to regarding her dress and etiquette is a stupid thing to do. Learning to conform to the rules of the society she's now dependent on could be quite smart. I dislike that, once again, the world itself is one that requires this. It is a far-too-common trend in film, television, books, manga etc. that dressing up and becoming more socially adept somehow makes a character a better person. It's a subtle and insidious message that has long permeated our psyche through socialisation. It's especially common in media aimed at girls and women - The Makeover. (And I should point out that, I, too, often enjoy the creative aspect of makeovers, but not the ineherent message of post-makeover=better you, pre-makeover=inferior you.)

It perpetuates an old-fashioned idea that, for women especially, you need to look and act differently from your natural self in order to be acknowledged and respected. Corsets, for example, were used to get the Ideal Figure, primarily to attract men and get a husband. Etiquette, while a tool for navigating in society, was different for males and females - there were many more things females couldn't do, shouldn't do and shouldn't talk about.

Therefore, when this story has such a great MC who is intelligent and capable and respected for that, I've been looking forward to seeing what interesting things this MC will encounter and do in the future.

I'm not suggesting that this particular story is going to make her unintelligent just because she puts on a ball gown. I'm DISAPPOINTED that the challenge the creator has thrown at her is to be able to conform to old-fashioned ideas of restrictive clothing and restrictive etiquette. It might be consistent with the world of this story, but I'm DISAPPOINTED that THIS is the kind of unoriginal world the creator chose to make. I PERSONALLY am disappointed that it is yet another story where the MC embraces outdated restrictions on her dress and clothing. She mightn't particularly like it, but she's not grumbling that it's ridiculous, she's grumbling that she, personally, doesn't like it. She still goes along with it and tries her hardest because she thinks it's important to master. There may be a valid reason within the story, but the story can be anything the creator wants. I wish this story had a world where the MC didn't think it was necessary to change how she is, where the MC didn't embrace these changes as important things that should be done, because it's just one more tiny subtle reinforcement of the message that changing our appearance and behaviour to suit others makes us better people who will have more respect and influence (and therefore empowered).

I'm not sure if that made a bit more sense? I'm not suggesting that nobody else should just enjoy this story for what it is, nor am I suggesting that others have to have the same perspective on this story. My age and the type of higher education I've had on this topic make me more aware and critical of the messages society subconsciously (oftent unintentionally) reinforces through various forms of media. I'm not expecting others to be as sensitive to these things, nor am I judging people for enjoying this story.

I'm merely personally disappointed because I loved how the MC wasn't another dressed-up society woman in an old-fashioned-type society, and I loved how she earned respect and influence from her work and natural attitude. I'm personally really bored by these dress-up & etiquette scenes and feel this manga is becoming less and less the type of story I enjoy. I'm disappointed, because I thought I had found one that suited me. I wished to express my disappointment that it doesn't suit my preferences after all.

I see what you mean, and again, your feelings on this are your own. If you personally don’t like this type of world, that is absolutely fair. I personally quite enjoy it, but that is mostly because I like traditional-lite societies (basically, those with traditions I value mixed in with more liberal values) and I tend to find restrictions interesting (just like in art, you can’t have quality without standards, and reasonable restrictions are an opportunity rather than an impediment).

My own point was more that the framing of this as « women must conform to strict rules » seemed slightly unfair (again, as they certainly don’t only / disproportionally apply to women, and as there’s never any mention of statuts differences between men and women in this story).

As for the idea that media give us the notion that we must better ourselves...I don’t really see anything wrong with that in and of itself. For one, we are social animals, so of course part of our interactions rely on competition for attention / conforming to social norms. As long as those norms are not overly restrictive, they are more beneficial than not (e.g. being polite, not littering, not invading others’ personal space, etc. are all social norms that I personally feel are better respected than not). You also have to take into account that this concerns palace life, i.e. a highly political space, i.e. a space where social competition is heightened and where therefore social norms are inherently more restrictive. More than it being a cliché, it is in fact quite realistic.

On the specific question of make-overs, by definition, the you you have worked on (taking care of your body, your posture, wearing nicer clothing, etc.) is « better » in terms of aesthetic criteria and will give you more social points (again, we are social creatures, thus we live comparing ourselves to one another, and « making an effort to fit » is positively received). It has nothing to do with being « better » as a whole or as a person, and I feel that the interpretation of make-overs as such is either entirely subjective, or due to the make-over being excessive (I personally dislike make-overs that erase a person’s personality rather than build on it, which certainly doesn’t seem to be the case here).

I am also very interested (and quite informed) in these issues, and I would say that the question of the influence of media in that instance is a question of the chicken and the egg : media helps form our preferences, but our preferences also help shape our media (our preferences themselves also being formed by hundreds of thousands of years of evolution, including basic animal behaviours related to procreating).

Overall, when it comes to the story, I guess this is down to subjective feelings, and it’s a shame that you came to not enjoy this anymore. You might like stories like « The Villainess' Slow Prison Life Began With Her Broken Engagement », « the great wish », « Suddenly became a princess one day », « pupillary master », « cheating men must die », « peerless alchemist », « miss not so sidekick », « the library needs a witch », « of course I’ll claim palimony », « I chose the emperor ending », and « may I ask for one final thing », if you like stories with decidedly self-assured, confident, no-nonsense, and / or unconventional (as in, « see how many fucks I give about your conventions ») FLs that make their own way through the world (especially « The Villainess' Slow Prison Life Began With Her Broken Engagement », « cheating men must die », « the library needs a witch », and « may I ask for one final thing »). Hope you find something you like here (if you did not already know these), I know how frustrating it can be when you can’t find quite the right story, or a story you like goes in a direction you dislike. Hopefully, you will be able to enjoy this story again in the future !

Thanks for your suggestions, there were one or two there I'm not familiar with, so I'll check them out. :)

I'd also like to point out something else. This is a manga. From Japan. Not standing out and conforming to society is a fairly prevalent mindset in their culture, along with male and female stereotypes.

I do agree though. Not because I don't like stories where the MC tries to fit into a restrictive society, but because it's such a cliché by now. Most manga with female MCs go this route. And it would indeed be nice to have more variety.

This is also why I personally like Potion Tanomi de Ikinobimasu! and Saving 80,000 Gold Coins in the Different World for My Old Age (both from the same author) a lot. The female MCs don't just accept how society thinks they should be and find solutions to avoid doing so, mostly by using their intelligence.

Probably nobody is seeing this comment anymore but I stumbled across it and still essentiallt stand by it, however poorly my reasons were explained or understood by others. I have up explaining why their counters generally comoletely misunderstood the point - their arguments were good, actually, they just weren't understanding what I actually meant and it gets tiresome to waste energy discussing something with strangers if there hasn't been a quick understanding established. But reading back, I got a bit bothered by it again.

Luckily, this story didn't linger on this plot arc and it went back to being about her potion-making, following her own interests and being an awesome person, which I really enjoy.

But I do want to reiterate one thing. I wasn't saying that I don't enjoy a lot of the many many transmigration/rebirth etc. stories that focus on a woman adapting cleverly to an old-fashioned and restrictive society. I was saying that up to the point I wrote my original comment, this story had been about something completely different, and she was closer to my favourite type of female lead. So it was understandably disappointing to have to focus of the plot switch to something else more cliche.

Additionally, if I'm enjoying a story, I'm entitled to express how I believe it could be improved and how I think it has failed in some way, but that is the OPPOSITE of disliking the story. It is because I like the story that I wish it to stay enjoyable and even become more enjoyable, and I sometimes like to get it off my chest when aspects are detracting from this. Sometimes online people seem to get personally offended by a critique of something they enjoy and react with "If you dislike it, read something else." It's a really dismissive reaction to someone wanting to discuss a story they like, and I honestly get quite hurt by it and start to avoid commenting at all because I don't want to deal with people who do that to me. Nobody has to agree with me, but it's really awful to reject someone's right to read something they enjoy and express some negative thoughts about it. A milder version of this is the "I don't personally understand your reasons so you clearly must just hate this story and should read something else," attitude.

Anyway, this is just me having a little thought dump about some things that bother me, in a place that I don't think anybody will read anymore. Hehe. Have a nice day.

Well that's not a problem when u have magic maybe

Maybe that's it... ╮(￣▽￣)╭

magic light sabers
()()
(^.^)

No!Σ( ￣□￣||) that's way to fast （/TДT)/

If that was the end then I'm on a river in Africa