Lily's Topics (194)

If he kills because of his mom, then where is the excuse for him torturing and raping ppl?

Did you even read what I wrote. Do you know how psychopathy works? Because I do, I did study that in university (but even without studying it you can just see from the latest chap that he is not lucid

So you're telling me every psychopath deserves help and pitiness because of their past and we should forget that they destroyed lives even though they know that what they do is wrong.
Okay.

Odd that you call Sangwoo a "psychopath" yet not Bum, despite them both sharing the same mental health symptoms. It's perfectly reasonable to view Sangwoo as both a victim and a criminal. People generally don't just commit crimes for no reason, now we are able to understand why Sangwoo behaves like he does.

Bum never killed anyone until Sangwoo held him captive, abused, tortured and mindfucked him and triggered something from his past.
He would've never killed anyone if it wasn't for Woo.

Keep defending Bum, saying "what if" is daft, lot's of people wouldn't steal if they were born rich, the fact is Bum murdered one person, he stabbed her 12 times. He also was the one to drive the knife into the older man. Sangwoo has no capacity, he's mentally unwell, just like Bum. Calling Sangwoo a "psychopath" is ignorant and just a slur. He's mentally unwell, and likely suffering from a personality disorder just like Yoon Bum. This is what the crux of the series has been about, their illnesses are what make them need to be in relationship, and it is what motivates their criminal behaviour. It's quite weird how you can easily paint Bum as a poor mentally unwell victim, but not Sangwoo.

You're crazy.
He was being held captive and abused and mindfucked by Sangwoo.
Anyone, even without having Bum's mental illnesses or past would've killed Jieun so they survive and can excuse it because they were forced to.
The older man?
Sangwo rammed Bum's tied up body against him. That doesn't goes to Bum.

Lol, sorry for hating an abusive Serial Killer and Rapist.
I know he had a bad upbringing, nobody forced him to kill, abuse, torture and rape though.He's manipulative as fuck.

Why? Because I'm trying to be more objective than just being a hater like you? Nice use of stigmatising language there also, it doesn't boost your credibility when you are trying to diagnose characters babe.

Just wanted to say that I may used psychopath in the wrong way but English is not my language and I didn't wanted to be offensive. I said that in a "medical" prospective, not like an insult. Hope I cleared my intention

I'm not being a hater, I'm talking out of experiencing it.
Ppl who excuse Abusers even though they never experienced abuse have no right to tell someone they're wrong for hating the Abuser.
I feel sorry for kid Sangwoo, the present one can eat shit.
If you disagree, then I dont care, feel free to argue with me lol.

Well we don't officially understand each other .. XD HE IS SICK. IN HIS MIND. Like...really sick..like it could be me, you, or everybody else, this is what you can't understand of mental issues.. Yes, I pity him, and Bum and anybody with mental issues because is hell. Many people out there have depression and anxiety and some mental problems without hallucination and reality distortions, and it is terrible even like that.
Well we live in a word in which some people tell to a person suffering depression "cheer up" and people with anxiety issues "just keep calm", so... Not too surprising we can't understand how mental diseases work.

Hi hello I'm just gonna butt in. First, yes they need help. Second, there's no excuse for what they have done. Absolutely none. Yes, they have their "reasons", but they're definitely not an excuse. Third, yeah I think they need help but not because they "deserve" it, but because it's so that they won't be able to harm more people anymore. They become pitiful because when you think about it, they could've lived a brighter life but they're stripped off of that possibility because of their own circumstances. What they have done and have been doing are too terrible to forget and they sure are hard to forgive especially for the loved ones of their victims. But as for somebody who wasn't involved directly or is reading this story from the fifth wall, they should be healed. Even if the process is very long and near to impossible.

But these, of course, are probably how the nicest and the kindest of people feels. What a person thinks and actually feel could differ. And not everyone thinks they need salvation. Also I hope you don't think I'm arguing with any of you. I just wanna point out some of your agreeable and disagreeable points. And I hope you're reading this in your mind in a very calm and peaceful tone as if I'm trying my best to not anger you. (￣∇￣")

And YES , every one DESERVES help, in my opinion.

Well I disagree, but aight.

That's okay sweety (^u^)

Honestly this is such a stupid mindset. If you care about Sangwoo and Bum from being prevented from harming others, or themselves, then you need to accept that both men are unwell and they both need mental health care.

Sangwoo getting the death sentence doesn't stop him from harming others?

And him getting into a Mental Asylum is also fine, ay long as he stays there, for all I care.

*as.

It's not called a "mental asylum", they are called psychiatric hospitals or mental health units. Also the purpose of detention is not to serve as a punishment, but instead the aim is to rehabiliate the patient, to understand them, and to prevent them from harming themselves or others. This would be applicable to BOTH Sangwoo & Bum.

That's a fucking revolting response. You are a complete hypocrite as you are justifying murder now. The death penalty is inhumane, and is not practised in South Korea.

There are also mental asylums.
And then what?
What iyo would happen then?
Heal him and let him go, not caring about the people he killed, abused or raped?

I don't care.

It's still a thing there, look it up.

Keep showing your ignorance over the justice system and mental health babe. And yes, that's the purpose of secure hospitals, that they can house violent patients who might be like Bum, you know stabbing someone 12 times because they got triggered that she was their teenage friend.

You are a fucking hypocrite then who just spams the comments hating on a character rather than contributing anything objective or constructive.

Or you know, being the captive of a Serial Killer who abuses and tortures you.

Yes, you're right. You really know about these things, hope it's because of your studies bit well not my business, just a wish for you

K.

This is just how the criminal justice system works in relation to those who are mentally unwell. In my own country, we do have high profile cases of serial killers who are mentally unwell, and they are detained in a high security hospital. Ditto people who are mentally unwell but have been violent to themselves or others. This is just how things are, and it's the most common sense approach to tackling violence triggered by mental illlness as seen with Bum and Sangwoo.

Its usless to have discussion with that person. She/he doesnt/doesnt want to understand elementary physiology and psychology.

Sorryy it was about @yeet not @Lily

I guessed so. I agree, this poster is quite exhausting to try and engage a conversation with as they basically want others to validate their wrong interpretation of the plot! Also, they seem to be using a lot of stigmatising language towards mental illness and have such a poor understanding of criminal justice and mental health care. It's odd, as the whole point of the story is a a documentation of the relationship of two mentally unwell men, their backgrounds their perceptions, the actual reality and their crimes. Yeets just wants to paint Bum as an angel, and Sangwoo as a devil which is ridiculous and an insult to the author, as they have given us a far more complex and compelling plot.

I never said or did that.
Both are mentally unwell men, both need help.
I just don't think Sangwoo deserves it.
You talk like he saw his mom in the older man, you talk like he was forced to torture and rape.
But that's fine, I dun care.

Actually, it's the same thing.

It's not the current terminology, also "mental asylum" is associated with stigma.

But a lot of mentally ill people don't go around killing and harming others,, so what u r saying if I confuse reality with fiction it's ok to kill! Wtf I don't think he is mentally ill but now he is starting to become one after regretting what he did ,, I hope he burn in hell I don't pity him .. he has a black heart ain't able to move on, forgive or appreciate the good things in life .. the victims didn't cause his suffering and even if they did he isn't the one to punish them and take their lives away

"he's a psychopath. How can you not pity him? Some are saying "you choose your path in life" but what a psychopath can even choose?"

Maybe you confused sociopath and psychopath? Because believe me, murdering many many people doesn't always mean they're psychopath. Psychopath is someone who had zero empathy. They're born with it, not created. When you said you study it, I'm confused why you said that he had no choice. Psychopath always choose their victim not on impulse. If they dicided to kill someone it's not because they don't have any choice, but simply because they can and they enjoyed it.

Didn't even finish read your message, I'm sorry dear but where are you even get the "it's alright to kill" part? Or the "everybody with -every kind of- mental issues" kill? This is why I don't like talking with people who doesn't listen or are just in their conviction..so much that even if the other party doesn't say that thing they think did. Or just assume things, saying that's like saying ... Also..no offense seriously but if you want to talk about mental disease or what a people with mental disease do please open a book about that.

Sorry! I think you're right , got the wrong word....I think in english you call that psychosis ..
But anyway, a psychopath is borned with it so what kind of choose does he really have? When you don't have empathy you can't understand how a person feels, the pain you just caused.
Anyway, Sangwoo mental disease is a bit complicated, not sure I can out only one label to that yet...well labels are just a way to simplified mental disease anyway, in life the line is also blurryblurry

Not always born,the demaged can also developed in early childhood if we want to be very specific. But yeah its the brain failure.
And I dont really get your logic. If we assumed that Sangwoo is indeed psychopath then yeah because of the fact that he feels no empathy he cant be evaluated/consider in the terms of normal healthy person. They enjoyed IT because they are ill.
Although I dont think that Sangwoo is psychopath. But its obvious that he is rather mentaly unstable.

Yes, thank you for writing it better than me

I just stated that I refused to called Sangwoo a psychopath. Yeah he can be mentally unstable, but not a Psychopath. Why I said it was born, not created is because Psychopath's brain didn't work like normal people. Their amyglada isn't developed, therefore they can't feel empathy.

"If we assumed that Sangwoo is indeed psychopath then yeah because of the fact that he feels no empathy he cant be evaluated/consider in the terms of normal healthy person."
At first I thought Sangwoo was a Psychopath too, but Sangwoo showing fear, panic, and affection just a big no no for a psychopath. He might be a sociopath, but if he's a true psychopath he wouldn't be crying his heart out for killing that stepmother that was having an accident.

I don't know where you get your facts but so far I only see psychopathy relates with 'lack' of empathy, not that they do not have any at all. So let's guess that in some possibility, it may happen that they could feel empathy at some point. Who knows. Besides this is a fiction, Koogi might not be following the realistic facts about psychopathy.

And what do you mean psychopaths could only be born? Psychopathy is developed through their personality. And children who had experienced through bad parenting, physical abuse and 'psychotic' parent etc have the highest chance of becoming a psychopath. Yes, there are those who comes by nature, but there's also those who are nurtured.

Btw, does he look like he's crying for killing that woman to you? Seems to me... He's crying for himself. Over his own death. Weird, I know and I can't say more about this with the lack of information.

U only giving executes to killers ,, just go away and don't worry I'm educated and know what I'm talking about,, I just can't stand people defending the worst and ugliest character in yaoi

Do you even understand how rude is to say someone excuse a killer? You have clearly NO KNOWLEDGE of psychiatry so you should just take your biased opinion somewhere else, because here we're talking scientifically, not emotionally.
And the fact that you talk about this problem you have with people defending ugliest chara in yaoi and think that ANY reflection is about that, it's YOUR problem, not mine. I can distinguish things. Bye

It's not about defending crime, it's about understanding the behaviour which motivates it. A lot of people though are defending Bum's crimes, and absolving him of responsibility due to his diagnosis of BPD. What if Sangwoo too has undiagnosed BPD? Punitive justice is ridiculous, it's simplistic and counter productive.

Literally the only crimes we know how he has done is breaking into Sangwoo's house and being forced to kill someone after being physically&mentally abused by Sangwoo, I don't think anyone is simply using his BPD as an excuse and dont put that on the same place as with Killing, Abusing, Torturing, Raping, Kidnapping, etc etc.
Those aren't forgivable.

Exactly, mi amiga. People here like to jump into conclusions very fast and misunderstood a lot of thing afterwards. Stupid.

He's gonna be out until Jisuh finds out what he meant by Heejae being a bastard and then he's gonna be coming right back into it, that's my sorta educated guess at least.

I think he's entered if he knows what to do from now on. Until now there was this distance between them but they talked and it got a lot better. Jisuh realized there's more to Sunyool then what he thought, since he went from an annoying brat to an hesitant emotional boy. Also Jisuh showing that Sunyool is special to him even tho he tried to make him think the opposite... that's interesting. If Sunyool doesn't push Jisuh like before, keeps talking to him, being understanding and supporting whatever he chooses then he has a great chance to get into his heart in the future.

I think so too....

I think Sunyool understood Jisuh's feelings and he will no longer try to be with him. A relationship is not something you impose to the other person and is not something you try desperately to build. If someone you like doesn't have feelings for you,you could try,ok,but once you've tried there's no much to do,especially if that someone is in a relationship which he's getting serious about,whether the person they're in a relationship with is an asshole or not. People should always respect others' feelings and choices,and I'm positive Sunyool will do that too,as you said,he's not behaving like a brat anymore. Even if he tries hard,which I think won't happen,Sunyool is not someone Jisuh would want to be in a relationship with. They could be great as friends,but nothing more.

Well in life you'll never know. Because it's true you can decide who you fall in love with but you can fall in love with the way a person make you fell, or the fact that you can trust them, or you admire them, so I disagree when people say "he only see him as a friend" because he don't know him, he didn't ever look at him.. The fact I think this can actually be a start is because of that AND because, Jisuh looked at him for the first time in this chap, and Sunyoll finally listened and discovered the way he tried to approach Jisuh was really too much for him. I read people saying it was like harassment but it wasn't. Sunyool really thought it was all innocent seduction ...he knew he was a pain in the butt for Jisuh only in this Japan's he step back immediately. No harrasser and no stalker do that, he simply misunderstood

I don't think it was just some "innocent seduction",he started to work in the same place as Jisuh just to see him. That's creepy and it's basically stalking,I mean,try to imagine a thing like that happening to you in real life. I don't know how you would react,but I would be creeped out. Of course it can't be compared to what Heejae did,but Sunyool's not totally innocent either. Btw,Jisuh never looked at Sunyool because he simply wasn't interested in him from the beginning. You don't waste time with people you know you will never like,it's just a loss of time for you,especially if you're getting serious about a relationship and you aren't interested about knowing other people,and for the person who likes you,who could just go on and maybe find someone else that deserves their love. Sunyool cannot give Jisuh the type of relationship he wants or needs,and I think Jisuh knows that pretty well,he's a grown up adult. Plus,if in the last chapter he told Sunyool that he's just a special friend to him,and that's what it is. You don't just fall in love with a person because you trust them or they make you feel comfortable,there's a lot more to it. It's something you feel,you have to like that person first because of the positive aspects they have,so physical attraction counts a lot too,and then you learn to love their flaws. But if it's not love,it just isn't,because you can trust or be comfortable around a friend too,but you don't love them,you have to actually like the person and the type of relationship they can offer you. I don't know if I made myself clear,tbh I would love to see Sunyool with another character who's better suited for him,he and Jisuh just can't work,but that's just my opinion.

Yeah that's way I wrote it was "innocent seduction" in Sunyool eyes..because I'm pretty sure it was, FOR HIM. Of course I'd would creep ME out (and maybe Jisuh too, but, again, Sunyool didn't understand that at first). Sure you don't fall in love ONLY because you can trust or feel comfortable but you don't fall in love only because physical attraction too...and trust and being comfortable are more important in a long term relationship. Also..if you are extremely comfortable with a person and you trust them then you'll find them attractive but well I think that's a bit too personal of opinion xD because I am like that I trust few, prefer to be alone and don't speak my mind and I fall in love with my husband before seeing his face and body, so... XD

Then I guess it just depends from person to person ^^

You are right. Parents should be more supportive. What annoys me in this manga is not her mother, is the fact that the heroine is so indecisive and still agrees with the parents. And I really admire you for choosing your own way

Yeah, unfortunately Kawana is not a good example for readers, in my opinion （￣へ￣）
Like I said I can sorta understand the parents, (still, mine went TOO WAY OVERBOARD so..well), but I sure can't understand Kawana. Like someone here in the comments said..it's not like marring a boy you don't love is gonna make you happy .. And what's so good about a life that seems to have all in place, anyway..it's just an illusion. People get sick everytime, your sweet half can cheat and lie, your children can born with disease or become a criminal and so on.. Having a spinal injury it's a tragedy, can't be a fault

Yes you are so true.i haven't after first chapters but I looked comment and I am agree with you. My cousin born with down sendrom. My family support them. They know it but they want to choose give her a life. Her mother was suffer a lot from other people. Even her mother family didn't want baby after her born because of disease... they forgot that we don't know why will happen in future . Maybe so healthy baby will be sick... or your love will be disable... it will be so hard but God help us... I hope nobody meet that kind of situation...

i strongly agree with you! i hope you and your husband will stay strong no matter what. :)