beta
The gods in Ennead are more like deity than the gods or matter that created everything.
In Asia, or at least in Asia Pacific, deity is something created by land. Even deity is divided into two categories, the first being the protectors of the land, or landlords, who are worshiped by humans as gods.
Second, free and unbound Deity, they are lower than the deity who protects the land, they can be categorized as good or evil, depending on how the deity behaves. In the west this deity is categorized as Goblin.
The gods in the Ennead are the same as the deity in charge of protecting the land.
I will say something unpleasant.
However, deity that protects the land, has no obligation and responsibility towards humans. They use the concept of give and take. If humans worship them, they will help humans.
The concept of a god (read: deity who protects the land) has an obligation to protect humans, is a concept that humans create themselves. Because from the start they were created to protect the land, not the humans who were there. As long as they protect the land, how they treat humans is not something that matters.
Aren't there many myths and stories where gods ask for human sacrifice to bring down rain, humans who are killed to become human pillars (killed to be used as building foundations) in order to assuage the anger of landlords who are disturbed for their construction, humans whose hearts are taken for god's offering and others.
And the landlords who protect the uninhabited land, really aggressive towards humans. If any human being stepped over the territory they protected and did something which for the landlord was destructive, that human would be cursed. Even though all that humans do is cut branches, or pick flowers, or take stones, or just say something that is not appropriate.
That's why I am somewhat surprised by the number of arguments about who is worse among them, than how many people they kill or sacrifice. Because for me, they--the deity that protects the land, only considers humans the same as livestock or sims. Which is one of the elements of the soil they protect. Even in the Ennead it is stated that Egypt was Ra's garden.
To be honest, I don't really care about Seth or Isis sacrificing so many humans in their bickering and revenge. Sometimes in fiction, there is no need for someone to kill a human to be categorized as the most despicable character in the story.
And I love how Ennead describes how bad it is when a deity behaves and thinks like a human. Because when they get caught by their feelings, the situation will get really, really bad. ε=ε=(ノ≧∇≦)ノ
Er... but that doesn't correspond with the end of season 1... What Seth did to those humans was considered bad enough by the other gods, that they even considered giving him the ultimate punishment.
About the end of session 1, I think the punishment given to Seth was more for him being a bad ruler and make Egypt fall into a state of chaos.
Given how cruel a punishment in mythology is, which is like a horror film and thriller combined into one. For me, the punishment given to Seth was very light, if indeed for the gods human life was something important to them.
I know, many people think Isis's proposal to destroy Seth's soul is very evil. But if what Seth did was a very grave crime, it seems to me that punishment is the most appropriate.
Seth, who was assigned to calm the souls of the humans he killed, in my opinion is not a punishment, but as a form of responsibility by what he did.
And if what Seth was doing was really bad, why didn't Ra try to overthrow Seth from his throne as ruler of Egypt? Before Osiris rose as ruler of Egypt, it was not Ra who had the position.
If the reason is because Ra is afraid of Seth for defeating the immortal Osiris, I don't think it is something that can be used as a strong enough argument as a basis. Especially if Sekhemet, who is Ra's favorite daughter, finds out how easy it is to defeat Seth, even by using Horus who is still not fully a god.
But Ra didn't do that. Instead of just looking at the situation that unfolded like a soap opera she watched when she was bored.
And the other gods were more or less the same as Ra (though not in seeing the situation as entertainment), they were blind to what was happening under Seth's leadership, on the grounds that they were afraid of Seth.
But why did this fear suddenly disappear when Isis brought Horus to fight Seth on the throne of the leader of Egypt. For me why are they considering ultimate punisment, not because Isis, who is the plaintiff for Seth's leadership, asked for it. This made me think that the main problem wasn't about Seth killing lots of humans.
It's just that, I'm not Mojito, I don't know how she designed the gods that appear in the stories she made. My opinion above, is based on how my country, as well as several countries in the Asian Pacific region, describe a deity.
But with some of the theories I found in this story, it is possible that Mojito used the same basis to describe the gods in the story.
Of course I am very happy to hear your arguments and theories in this regard.
Additional.
I think Ra (and possibly other gods) did wait and see regarding Seth.
Ra didn't try to dethrone Seth and just waited, knowing that at one point Seth would commit suicide. Due to the sadness and loneliness he felt more and more every second.
Being the ruler of Egypt was not something Seth wanted. He took this position after Osiris died, due to his revenge and to prove that what Osiris said about him being a poweless god without Osiris, was wrong.
(How naïve is how Seth thinks, but maybe that was also one of his charms that made Osiris fall in love with him.)
Seth also knew what he felt would lead him to commit suicide. Therefore he killed humans to strengthen his Khopesh. The next time Seth met Osiris in the Duat, he could actually end Osiris.
But before that happened, Isis arrived with Horus. Demanding the throne occupied by Seth, because Horus, who is the son of Osiris, has more right to that position.
This is the reason why Sekhmet said for Seth that Horus' arrival was the hope he had been waiting for. To end things, to free Anubis (and Neptyhys) from him. Which was due to selfishness, Seth couldn't let go of even knowing the happy family they once had would not return (even without the curse from Isis).
It's just that because of his pride as the God of War, it didn't make it easy for Seth to give up his throne. Yes, Seth knew, that someone would replace him as leader of Egypt. Whether it's Ra, or Horus, or other gods. But he wants to be defeated by someone who is worthy or stronger than him.
Because of that at a boat race, Seth was very angry. Not because he lost, but because Horus (with all the help of the other gods) was still doing dirty tricks. Horus also knows, because of that he felt gloomy (Yes, Horus I know it hurts to be looked down on by the person you like) and questions Isis about their way of defeating Seth.
i agree with you @jay. some gods may be gung-ho about just protecting the land (honestly these are in the minority), but the ennead and deities from all around the world definitely regard humans as having way more value than a piece of land.
The gods in Ennead are more like deity than the gods or matter that created everything.
In Asia, or at least in Asia Pacific, deity is something created by land. Even deity is divided into two categories, the first being the protectors of the land, or landlords, who are worshiped by humans as gods.
Second, free and unbound Deity, they are lower than the Deity who protects the land, they can be categorized as good or evil, depending on how the deity behaves. In the west this deity is categorized as Goblin.
The gods in the Ennead are the same as the diety in charge of protecting the land.
I will say something unpleasant.
However, deity that protects the land, has no obligation and responsibility towards humans. They use the concept of give and take. If humans worship them, they will help humans.
The concept of a god (read: deity who protects the land) has an obligation to protect humans, is a concept that humans create themselves. Because from the start they were created to protect the land, not the humans who were there. As long as they protect the land, how they treat humans is not something that matters.
Aren't there many myths and stories where gods ask for human sacrifice to bring down rain, humans who are killed to become human pillars (killed to be used as building foundations) in order to assuage the anger of landlords who are disturbed for their construction, humans whose hearts are taken for god's offering and others.
And the landlords who protect the uninhabited land, really aggressive towards humans. If any human being stepped over the territory they protected and did something which for the landlord was destructive, that human would be cursed. Even though all that humans do is cut branches, or pick flowers, or take stones, or just say something that is not appropriate.
That's why I am somewhat surprised by the number of arguments about who is worse among them, than how many people they kill or sacrifice. Because for me, they - the deity that protects the land, only considers humans the same as livestock or sims. Which is one of the elements of the land they protect. Even in the Ennead it is stated that Egypt was Ra's garden.
To be honest, I don't really care about Seth or Isis sacrificing so many humans in their bickering and revenge. Sometimes in fiction, there is no need for someone to kill a human to be categorized as the most despicable character in the story.
And I love how Ennead describes how bad it is when a deity behaves and thinks like a human. Because when they get caught by their feelings, the situation will get really, really bad. ε=ε=(ノ≧∇≦)ノ
what you say sort of makes sense bc sure, a being that is more powerful than others could technically then do whatever they want with the weaker ones. but there's one thing you're missing in your essay: that gods have, do, and will fall in love with humans - whether romantically or platonically that depends on the individual god. yahweh (judeo-christian deity), for example, fell absolutely in love with his people to the point where he uses a lot of wedding imagery in his holy texts. isis, here and irl myth, absolutely adores humanity and helps them in many ways - one principal way is by regulating the nile which is literally the life vein of ancient egypt. osiris, irl myth, also has much affection for humans. he allowed himself to be killed by seth so there could be resurrection. there's also freya in nordic mythology, quetzalcoatl in aztec... the list goes on and on, it's literally interminable. i mean, why do you think humans become such devoted followers? because they feel loved and protected by their chosen deity/deities.
re: this manhwa - seth cannot continue to treat his subjects the way he has been regardless of the cause of his trauma (which in a human's eyes makes him understandable - no one desrves to be raped - but in NO way justifies his rampant bloodshed especially when he is treating his own devotees so callously)... and that's why horus is regarded as the hope of not only the ennead (they are sick of seth's tyranny) but also the egyptian people.
First of all, I want to apologize for just replying. Because I didn't get a notification, I don't mean to ignore you at all. Sorry.
Then let's discuss about this.
I did not mention it, but I did not reject the idea of a God who could love humans, either plantonically or romantically.
Moreover, you kindly set an example. It's just that I'm not the type of reader who just because in real life it is mentioned like that, then I apply these ideas to the fiction that I read.
I am the type of reading that examines the intent and purpose of the author in writing the story. If the author makes a completely different concept from the material that inspires them, I'm not the reader who makes a big deal about it. As long as they have a solid concept and nothing contradicting their story, I will buy the idea.
In the Ennead, I found more similarities between the Deities who protect the land and the Gods in the Ennead, compared to the gods you mentioned. That's why I applied the above assessment to the character of Ennead.
And ... my reason for writing the above is because I see readers are very busy making the "who's better than who" contest and judging by human standards. They were gods, and even by incorporating their ability to love humans, their standards of right and wrong were very different.
Then in Ennead it's not even a story that depicts a character in the black and white category. So it doesn't matter who is right and better in this story.
Like my favorite phrase I often say, "There is no difference between me and you. We are as dirty, as bad and as low. If there is any difference, I am bad and I admit it. While you are bad and you deny it."
(The sentence above was not meant for you.)
With that in mind, it doesn't matter how Seth, Isis and Osiris are.
The author could easily make Seth a protagonist who is hurt, miserable, mistreated and needs pity like many protagonists in other stories.
Yes, Seth was a victim. Yes, Seth had a background for his actions. But has Seth ever asked pity for that? No, his pride as the God of War would not allow that. Then has Seth ever tried to justify what he did? Not.
Even humans who died because of the war he fought to protect Egypt, he still considered the victims. Just like the victims that Seth made when he became the leader of Egypt.
He didn't even give a reason to do that because of his broken mind.
Then chapter 47, where Isis chides Seth, he can act like a victim (the attitude that other protagonists always do when reviled about his actions), but Seth doesn't. Although Isis more or less blamed him for the rape he experienced. Seth just wanted to know the reason behind Isis's actions.
Then Isis, I think the author is very brave to create a character that is perfect but full of flaws like this. Because it's no secret that making perfect characters is easy. But giving them a profound flaw, is a challenge in itself in writing a character.
Like Seth, the author could easily describe Isis as Egypt's savior from tyranny. But the author didn't choose that easy method.
Instead of arguing that the actions she took were solely to protect Egypt, Isis bluntly said that it was revenge that drove her to do all of this.
Without trying to coat it with sugar or refine it to invite sympathy. Isis admitted (indirectly) that the fact that Osiris loved Seth, made him blind due to jealousy.
As for Osiris, I can't speak much. Because in season 1, Osiris' character has not been shown much. But at least, when he raped Seth, Osiris didn't give the classic "because you made me do that" excuse that many characters in the Yaoi genre always throw around when raping someone.
While Neptyhys ... it's no secret that I don't like her. Not that Neptyhys betrayed Seth, it's not that Neptyhys loves Osiris (that's super low and annoying, but not the main reason). But because she never admitted the mistakes she made. Never mind fixing what she broke, Neptyhys is busy portraying herself as a victim of the situation and completely innocent. In fact, although not a perpetrator, Neptyhys is accomplished.
That's the reason why I say there is no need to kill to make the character the most despicable in the story. In a setting which is very ambiguous about right and wrong, for me it is most important for the characters to admit what they are doing.
Above are my arguments for my opinion on this story. But that doesn't mean that it makes your thinking about this story invalid. We just have a different view of the story.