I can’t believe people are saying KLOFF was worse. Imagine someone u know (doesn’t even have to be someone u are close to) went to hire someone to “scare” ur pregnant wife which led to her dying and losing ur child. How would u feel? Personally, this would haunt me for the rest of my life. I can’t even process the trauma. Aelock was so much worse because y the f would u do that to someone who is not ONLY UR COUSIN BUT PREGNANT ????? OVER A SICK INFATUATION???
They both had their issues like alot aelock had a bunch with his dad causing him to process "love" like that but also raping imprisoning and forcing someone who you know isn't well in the head to give birth to your kids ain't right either they are both the same side of evil. Like equally. Honestly that poor omega he was the only one the wasn't a horrible person in some way in this.
Hmmmm yes i do feel for Aelock but I cannot judge KLOFF like I said the fact that someone I know literally did that to my wife is just literally traumatising. Especially knowing they were pregnant, it could literally mess with ur head. And for me it’s the fact that this isn’t a stranger, it’s SOMEONE I KNOW that literally planned this to happen. I wouldn’t rape Aelock but God knows I’d want him to suffer much more. Btw this doesn’t mean I don’t feel for Aelock, this is just me speaking from Kloff POV because I feel like people on here do not understand what Kloff really went through
Actually Kloff had an inferiority complex over aelock and he liked aelock first but because of his complex he chose the omega which resembles aelock and of course what aelock did is unforgivable but he got the worst punishment and he gladly accepted it. Don't want to spoil it but in the novel kloff still have inferiority complex over aelock even after their rebirth and he continuously lust over aelock. Spoiler alert again.. Aelock have all the memories of the past while kloff didn't and aelock tried to redeem himself in the future and tries to treat rafael and kloff better by making everything right but you know in my opinion kloff is just trash, toxic and not up to my expectations (just my opinion) no hate.. Still love the story... After all its a happy ending... Sorry for my bad English (づ￣ ³￣)づ
Idk about the rebirth stuff but like I said if I was kloff and that happened to me God knows I’d literally turn crazy and I feel like people are not putting themselves in Kloff shoes. Also, u mentioned that Aelock wasn’t taught how to love that’s like saying if a spoiled rich kid kills someone it’s because they weren’t taught well. Yea they might not have been taught properly but it doesn’t take away the fact that what they did was extremely horrible. I’d like to reiterate that I do not like Kloff however I can defo understand where he’s coming from. Also ur English is good, dw about it
Because Klopp is selfish man, a coward with violence tendency and inferiorty complex. Kropp did not love Rafael, at least not that kind of feeling towards Arok. He only chooses him because Rafael is omega and suitable one to marry, basically Kropp in first life chooses stable life, an omega wife instead of scandalous relationship with Arok, an alpha at that time.
But he still married Raphael and he clearly loved him. It’s not my business to judge what kinda love he had. He never showed violent tendency till the death of Raphael and like I said if someone did that to my partner lord knows they’d defo feel the wrath of my anger.
The thing is Klopp uses revenge as a excuse to satisfy his lust toward Arok. He loves/covets Arok from the first time they meet. He purposely shows Raphael off to Arok just to taunt him. I think that what really pushes Arok off the edge.
Klopp's like the Frollo guy in the The Hunchback of Notre-Dame, blaming Esmeralda for making him sinned or wanna sin (because Klopp want to love Arok). In the second life, you will see it clearer, they're kind of soulmate, so bound to fall in love with each others.
Yes I agree with ur first point of Klopp using revenge to satisfy his lust. My point is just based on me understanding his anger towards Arock.
For me, he's just root of evil. If he truly wanted, he can killed Arok or put him in jail for the rest of his life but no, he has to keep him beside and rape to satisfy himself. Klopp is crazily obsessive about Arok from the frist time they meet and use Raphael as a replacement. That hypocrite son of the bitch.
I stand by what I said first they are both the same ammount of evil and messed up you can't excuse what kloff did because of sympathy. If you say I feel bad for kloff for his husband dying you could say I feel bad for aelock because his dad abused him and messed up how he processes emotions. They both did awful things. At the start of the story you could say aelock is worse for getting a guy killed and raped but once you find out he didn't want the guy dead he just wanted him beaten up and for him to lose the kid the prospective on his evil changes. Just as kloff at the start is undeniably good but as he seeks out a twisted and misguided revenge doing more and more unspeakable things he becomes evil. They are both wrong both the same ammount of evil they both have twisted morals and perspectives. Justice for the omega husband though he didn't deserve that they should have left him out of their messed up love business.
Yeah, one thing for sure is that Raphael didn't deserve to be dragged into this mess.
Bro stfu justifying kloops actions. His revenge were way too far more monstrous. In his regression that just proves how an asshole toxic bastard he is. I agree that aelock’s have also definitely at fault here, but he should’ve just killed him. He already brought him down, starting with his business. He already raped him, beat him up, drugged him, SA’d by men. He’s way worse that you know.
He wanted to scare Rayfiel not kill him. Aelock is bad, but he didn’t mean any of what happened. It’s the reason why, he accepted everything Klopp did to him, he hated himself… but the reason why Klopp is worst is because he could have just killed him, but he chose a revenge catering his desire for Aelock, using Rayfiel’s death… it doesn’t make sense, having a kid with your wife’s killer.
I know it doesn’t excuse Aelock’s actions, but he did really try to move forward when klopp chose Rayfiel. But if he was such a good husband, why did he continue to provoke and insult Aelock for liking him, using Rayfiel like a trophy to brag around. Rubbing it on his face.
In the second arc, Aelock tried to set things right. He respected the relationship between Klopp and Rayfiel… but reading it in Klopp’s pov, he confirmed that he went out with Rayfiel because he looked like Aelock, it was just cruel.
Klopp in his arc, in the third world, he blamed Aelock for leaving him, he kept hoping the Aelock of that world would do something bad. It was a train wreck, only when he saw that Aelock was not the cold heartless noble, he thought to be. It actually all fell into place….
Or what???? If u don’t agree with what I said keep it moving pussio
They'll understand if reading the ss2 or the novel. No need to get aggressive,
Idk why people after reading only s1 thinks aelock is worst hurts me because they haven't seen how evil, greedy, hypocrite kloff is in s2 and so on idk... Novel is something else I'm still shattered, haven't moved on yet..
I think they don't fully understand the fated connect between Arok and Klopp (due to the lack of context), not just some selfish infatuation from Arok's part. In my opinion, if Klopp and Arok trade places, Klopp would probably do worse to Arok's spouse in his jealousy fit.
This!! It still scares me just thinking about it...
I’m curious about this, what if Aeroc ended with someone else. In world 2-3, Aeroc mutates as an omega. If he did eventually mutates as an omega in volume 1, and ended with someone… what will Klopp do hahahahaha
Someone write a fanfic… pls…
I hope that the author of the novel will write an AU where Arok ends up with someone better than Klopp and Klopp from the first life can only protect him from a far as punishment of his crime. But...
Klopp after the imprinting, is very obsessive person, I think he will act like every toxic tops, lock up, r word, baby trap, debt trap.
Lol you clearly never read the novel.
SPOILER~!~~~~
In the volume 2 of the novel, there was a circumstance between rafael and klopp which broken off their marriage. Klopp never pursued rafael ever since a light incident which harmed both of their reputation, it was also stated they didnt love each other enough to completely elope and ignore societal views of them. In season 1 he only married rafael bcoz he looked like aelok but he's an omega and is more accepted in the society
the volume 2 is the 2nd timeline of aerok's regression btw
Sadly I don’t think will get that :( Hopefully someone writes a fanfic, someone in the comment section in knoxt, wanted Wolflake (his Rayfiel’s husband in a different book)
Wolflake knows Aeroc from childhood, because of their families long relationship. So there is potential there!
You can’t blame us this is different from the novel. I do feel bad for Aelock however I am also putting myself in klopp shoes. After reading the novel, I also don’t like klopp but if it’s based on just this manga then I don’t dislike him nor do I like him.
I also want an AU. Where Klopp did marry Rayfiel, and let’s say Aeroc meets up with someone, the potential candidates are Marquis Wolflake and the son of Viscount Derbyshire (forgot his name hahaha sorry) who Aeroc knew from childhood.
Like instead of Klopp saving Aeroc, in Arc 2. Wolflake does! And since Klopp and Rayfiel get married. It opens the door to Aeroc marrying Wolflake instead, since Wolflake has a higher status as a noble. Aeroc might actually get a wedding! And we see Wolflake help Aeroc keep his title as a count! Something arc 2-3 never touched on! Seeing Wolflake’s personality, he doesn’t talk much, but from the side stories, I can see that he is a funny guy who loves spoiling his wife and kids! So Aeroc will be a pampered wife!
In world 1, let’s say Aeroc did leave for that cruise to avoid Klopp and Rayfiel. Maybe he visits one of Viscount Derbyshire son’s, his good friend’s with them. Keeps himself busy with other things. What if Aeroc does still mutates to an omega, and is discovered still. Aeroc will still have to hide his relationship, like what Klopp and Aeroc did in arc 2-3. Because a viscount is a lesser title than a count. But still, Aeroc has a partner that who doesn’t feel inferiority complex about his title and how he shines, because viscount’s son knows Aeroc as a kid, so they know how hard his life as a kid! So his partner will help him be more grow and flourish!
But the funny thing is, if any of this scenario happens. I can so imagine the regret and frustration in Klopp’s face. Hahahahaha! Especially the Klopp of world 1, the way he insulted Aeroc. I can only imagine the face he’ll make, when he sees Aeroc with someone, and the arrogant count he hated so much, smiling and happily forgetting him. Klopp can screw himself (╬￣皿￣)凸
Yeah, the imprint does make Klopp crazy. The Arc 2 Klopp was able to fight the effects, he was able to rationalize that the imprint is making him see hallucinations that almost made him harm Aeroc. How his mind is twisting him, to desire to hurt and impregnated Aeroc. It was scary. But that Klopp was able to fight it!
Making you see, why he was so violent in the OG world. Even when he knew that Aeroc is growing weaker, because of the repeated pregnancy, he rationalizes it as a desire for Aeroc to suffer. And why he was always looking for a reason to beat him up and so on… making Aeroc wear Rayfiel’s old clothes, Aeroc not asking him for anything, Aeroc talking to their son… he admitted that it was going beyond revenge, but didn’t stop and think of why he was acting so insanely obsessed with Aeroc. Like damn.
Yeah Klopp is not the best partner. The imprint twisted him. Aeroc definitely needed to dodge Klopp, because he’s a ticking time bomb. I wished he used that silver coin and instead left that place. Maybe he could have even found Hugo or a better life away from the city… faraway from OG Klopp’s clutches.
As for arc 2, fortunately this Klopp was able to manage and control it, he made it known Aeroc giving him power over him. And made things work for both of them.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. It’s ok. Even if Aeroc did not mean to get Rayfiel killed, it happened. Klopp has his reasons to get revenge, but I just wish he just killed Aeroc or just sent him to prison.
Klopp is a pitiful character. His a respectable person in his industry who has a bright future. Despite marrying Rayfiel for all the wrong reasons, I think he would make him happy.
It just went too far. I read the novel, and understood why he became violent and cruel. It made sense, but it didn’t make it ok. They both suffered as a result. Aeroc describe Klopp as a good man, and felt responsible for twisting him. But ultimately, Klopp made that hell. By choosing how to exact his revenge. And he used his wife’s death as ammunition to inflict more unnecessary pain.
And Klopp had it worst. After Aeroc’s death, when he realized the imprint. He had to keep himself sane for their children, fighting the impulse to kill himself. It’s his way of taking responsibility for what he put Aeroc through… a payment for his own sins.
Everything has two sides. Everybody has a story. Aeroc’s cold approach and arrogant personality is a product of his father’s strict education, his lack of understanding of love stems from losing his mother at a young age. He was like a doll who is still under the grip of his dead father, he didn’t like hosting parties or doing whatever, but he was just following what he was taught. He didn’t have any sense of identity. But his encounter with Klopp made him selfish for the first time. He is like a lost child, who misses his mom and sometimes even his cold father. He just wanted to be loved back. But how he handled his jealousy turned into poison. And when it happened, like a scared child he hid himself away. He felt guilty and hated himself, so when Klopp did his revenge, he accepted it. For Aeroc, it’s his way for paying for his sin. And in a twisted way, he felt he had something, he wanted to be with the person he loves, it was better than loveliness. If Klopp made it clear, that he wasn’t abandoning Aeroc for a second time, Aeroc would have still stayed in that cabin. But his mind foggy from the pain, heavy meditation and Klopp’s cruel words convinced him, that his existence was causing pain for Klopp. And Klopp’s pain was worst than any suffering Aeroc had to endure. He felt selfish for clinging to life, for clinging to Klopp in hopes of forgiveness.
And despite being cold nobleman, Aeroc was described to be kind and a respectful man by others. So he is not a bad person.
Both characters are victims of their own actions and that’s unfortunate.
The imprint is one thing, I find Klopp has an inferiority complex about his background, yet prideful, conceited, looking down on all the high-ranking noblemen like Aeroc or Wolflake (?) without really knowing them. He made fun of Aeroc's confession and rub his fiance - Aeroc's cousin - to his face. It's like Klopp enjoyed the fact that a Alpha nobleman fall at his feets and fully known that he using his fiance to ridicule Aeroc but still done it anyway.
This makes me mad too. Klopp rejecting Aeroc was his right, but the fact he kept insulting and rubbing it in Aeroc’s face, that was really shitty.
Aeroc would have moved forward in his life, eventually. It may have been first love, but it wasn’t going to be last. But Klopp’s attraction to Aeroc irks him, and since he couldn’t do anything about it, he purposely humiliates him. His punishing Aeroc for that attraction.
And it’s disrespectful to his wife, using her as a tool to empower himself. He may really had grown to love Rayfiel, but damn, what a terrible person. (╯°Д °)╯╧╧
I know the relationship between Alpha/Alpha or Omega/Omega frowned upon… but honestly why should Klopp be affected by it. You can be disgusted by it, but it’s none of your business what others do. This is why his even more angry at Aeroc, because Aeroc is turning him into what he hated.
If Aeroc had found someone else. I think Klopp would have hated it, and just maybe be petty about it. Because he never had the courage to be honest about his own feelings. That would have been fun to see! And Aeroc just ignoring him, moving forward with his life, the best revenge. He doesn’t look as petty as Klopp, which I respect! Aeroc just wanted to find the same love as his parents, he wouldn’t go out of his way to antagonize others, like someone.
Klopp is a bitch, hide beneath the cloak of his own righteousness to cater his lust to Aeroc and revenge is the perfect reason. In the Arc 3 I still hate the OG Klopp.
Yeah OG Klopp is really an asshole. That’s why in his self-reflection, he realized that the whole disaster was caused by of his inferiority complex and he’ll live with that.
Too little, too late. Image during those years, Klopp looked his children and thinking that he r worded and beat up their mother on daily basis. The OG Klopp doesn't deserver Aeroc and Rafieal in any universe.
Yeah, he doesn’t deserve anyone. I can agree to that.
OG Klopp, had done such a horrible thing that his torn soul would never find any peace. It will be his secret to carry. Living in a world without OG Aeroc. He clings to the Aeroc of the third world. As much as Aeroc deserves better.
It’s selfish, but human nature, when he realize that he couldn’t be with OG Aeroc, he settled for the Aeroc of the 3rd arc. Yeah, it’s not fair for his Aeroc. But it makes the story more honest about his nature. Klopp wasn’t the good man, he was. He lived hell once, so why condemn himself to more suffering. He’ll love his Aeroc, even if his heart belongs to the OG, because this maybe his only chance.
But one thing is for sure, OG Klopp will never let his Aeroc feel any less loved, because he made that mistake once. It’s really hell wrapped in a sweet lie, and OG Klopp will be the only one who’ll never be happy. I guess it’s the author way of saying FU to Klopp… maybe hahahha
I just imagine a fuck-up ending. The OG Klopp wakes up in his chair, and all the Arc 3 is just a dream of his, wanting a second change so much but will never have.
That would have been a great ending too! Hahahaha
I'm so mean, just want to find a way to screw the OG Klopp over.
It’s ok! I don’t like OG Klopp too hahaha! So go ahead and make your worst scenario!
I would really have to dislike this or my conscience would not let me sleep. The moral compass which I could forgive or sympathize a charcater, it's long overdue for Klopp. There are also limit to how much we could give a person a chance to redeem themselves. And thus, no one at this point could possibly think of one thing like you.
Klopp is just a character I would not comment to defend like this. My moral compass would not let me do it. I don't want to dissapoint you, but the lack of person's understanding really went off with this one. The thing about Klopp, it's not about his actions anymore. What I can't defend is his whole character. I could not possibly fathom to put myself and become his character. Aeroc is a matter of mistake, while Klopp is a matter of his morality. It's like we're comparing an unintenional homicide to a serial killer.
I would really want to do this one in the future. I think we're lacking some real tangiable consequences. Maybe in the future, and the webtoon is finish— either I'll write it as a chapter or comics for an alternative ending.
But my idea would be in 4th timeline, they both remember their past lives, that would be really exciting. The lack of memories is like forgetting our past suffering in the 1st timeline and we are force to move on. So, I would like to give this a proper beatings in the head.
And if they probably remember both past lives, I don't think they have the guts to be together, hihihihi
Hmmm… I would love to read a fanfic of Itrg. If you work on it, share it let’s see.
But honestly I understand why they both OG’s didn’t meet anymore, Klopp is really a piece of work. He only came to the realization because the Aelock of his world, had the confidence to call him out on it, the confidence OG aelock lost in his trauma. I could see OG aelock submitting to Klopp, which is sad, because the years of trauma destroyed every part of him. The problem in both returns is the existence of the imprint. Klopp will be obsessed with Aelock, and use it as leverage to coerce Aelock into a relationship. How you make it work or how you separate them will make it interesting… so share it ok!
If I wasn’t lazy, I would write a fanfic about the first world, after reading the whole novel… I see two or three potential ml, linus wolflake, richard Derbyshire, and oc (richard’s brother). Since both Richard and Linus knew Aelock as kids the possibility is endless. Aelock was described to be incredibly beautiful, so you know he has a lot of admirers. No imprinting! Klopp remains married to Rapiel.
I don’t want Aelock to have any connections to Klopp. I want Klopp to see Aelock be with someone else, an alpha who is much nobler than him, I want Aelock to smile so beautifully that it makes Klopp’s inside boil.
When aelock does change into an omega, which will happen not because of drugs, I want Klopp to know. I want Aelock’s partner to tell Klopp off… that he has been rude to someone else’s spouse.. if it’s because of alphaXalpha comment long ago. Isn’t it time to move on from that.. aelock is with me. My spouse has been apologetic and didn’t want this issue to get bigger. I’m only cordial because your spouse is family and my spouse asks me too.
I plan on using one of Derbyshire’s son, knowing one of the brother’s will be marrying Rapiel’s brother Ariel… will make Klopp know Aelock’s secret but be forced to keep it.
I want Klopp to know that he almost had the most beautiful man as his partner, but his pride it got in the way. And his forced to act like a decent person, when he and rapiel have to see Aelock with his spouse.
Klopp can only watch from behind as Aelock is happy and Klopp is nothing but an afterthought. The ending I wanted for Aelock (づ￣ ³￣)づ
I don't think I could really pass on not doing the fanfic, knowing full well that the endings are all bittersweet. I would love to share it ofc hahaha.
I also want to see Klopp ends with Raphael, because I can't really stand people saying he becomes who he is because of Raph but nope, 100 percent sure even if things go well they also won't be that happy and divorce is on the way, knowing Klopp is not that great to handle as well.
One of my ideas are either they redeem themselves and learn not to incorporate with each other anymore. But ofc that grounds to some unresolve obsessions.
Or fanfic to modern society with no ABO at all so their imprints won't affect them anymore. Ofc this is also grounds to some changes and I want to see the ending first and see where I'm dissatisfied the most and heal myself with the fanfic haha.
It will be great if Aeroc could move forward without being intangle with the twisted Klopp. And Klopp to knows how to admire from long distance. Then all ends well. Hehe
I can give you the raws link, but it will hurt your head translating it using google… it’s confusing but you’ll get the gist of what’s happening. I’m excited to see it translated (๑•ㅂ•)و✧
But I don’t have a link for the IF stories so will have to wait for the translation.
I’m looking forward to what you’re planning to do! I really didn’t like that the imprinting was binding them both, giving them no options but to stay together.
It would be really fantastic to see Klopp just watching Aelock from afar. Regretting hhaha
Whyyyyyy??? Why couldn’t he end up with Yuri????? Nah this ain’t it y’all
Same here! He's so cutee and hot!(￣へ￣)
I don’t know why people don’t like the guy with freckles. I actually think he’s doing the right thing; if that happened to any of my siblings, and I see my best friend going through the same thing, I am definitely going to try to change them. He has the right thought, but the way he’s going about it is wrong. Instead, he should speak to his friend about his worries.
wdym by right thing?
I might be wrong, but when eunsung got heartbroken, he was in sitting in the shower. He looked defeated. It was very similar to what his brother went through in terms of getting he’s heartbroken. The way I see it, he doesn’t what Eunsung to go through the same thing. He thinks Eunsung is not that strong and, if he was to get heartbroken again, could potentially commit suicide. In terms of doing the right thing, I honestly would not want my best friend to be with someone who has not made their mind up, especially if I think my best friend is fragile.
I would instead try to set them up with someone else except perhaps, in Eunsung case, a man, but I get why he keeps setting him with a woman. It's the fear of losing someone close to you.
Oh, okay, I get it now. Traumatic experience is really difficult to overcome, but I hope the friend lessens his toxicity towards Eunsung's private life 'cause it could be really suffocating on Eunsung's part
This is why I really hope they speak with one another to understand each other.
Uurrgh this manga was such a waste of my time honestly. Had so much potential at the start but Junho character just ruined it for me.
I hope haebom says “well goodnight” and goes to bed that would be a real punishment and hilarious
OMGG I WILL LAUGH SOO HARD IF HE DOES DO THAT
well they bone~
Does anyone have any manga similar to this one? TIA.
painter of the night ( http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/yahwacheop/) but it's a bit more graphic than this, and has harsher themes, but they're both pretty similar in the sense that there's painters that live under their rich bosses.
I’ve read that one and it was amazing but thank you.
Though not similar but if u r looking for a mature yaoi with serious theme then I can recommend some.
That would be great thank you. I’ve read a lot of yaoi manga so it difficult to find something to read.
1. Deadlock
2. Royal Servant
3. Fate makes no mistakes
4. A thousand Cranes
5. Intense
6. Midnight Rain
7. The beast must die
8. Esu
9. Takane no something............ http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/takane_no_hana_wa_chirasaretai/
10. Cover up
11. Kemono Asobi........... http://www.mangago.zone/read-manga/kemono_asobi/
12. Truth or dare
See if u have read these. The one I have given the links for r black n white ones. Or u can see my already read ones from the back. U haven't got an already read list so I couldn't figure it out. The ones I have mentioned r the relatively less known but most amazing.
Thank you so much for this I was so sure I have ran out of manga to read and I think my profile is private I’m not sure.
Lol ur profile is open to everyone I guess. Ur comments and all r visible right? Thats the case with everyone. Well whatever, ur welcome. Glad I could help. (〜￣△￣)〜
Those b!tch Eunwoo and Wonho did not deserve happy ending. They literally made me sick, also some of y’all in the comment section are weird, y’all are praising Eunwoo and Wonho but if it was the Uke that was cheating the way y’all would have call him all sort of names, dragged the book but because it was the “seme” it’s not a problem. Weirdos. Gave it 1 stars because Eunwoo and Wonho made me sick.
Eh, not really. People are quick to call out about disliking tops being shitty, but bottoms are usually called "queen" for being shitty, lol. People are much more courteous towards shitty bottoms than shitty tops.
This is the biggest lie, I’ve ever seen?? You can’t be serious??? Cheating bottoms have never been praised, this is even reflected in real life when men cheating is tolerated but if a woman does it, it’s another story. Looooool dfkm, “queens”???? You can’t be serious
that's a lie. cheating ukes are the most hated. those weirdos like toxic tops that cheat and abuse
True I see that a lot too actually
What the hell are u talking about?? I've never seen people tolerating shitty or cheating ukes... This has nothing to do with positions. Most of the time People usually hate on a character if they r being shitty regardless of their position.
I have pointed out some bottoms raping the tops and it's usually treated so much more casually and gets people a shit ton of downvotes for even pointing it out. Calling a random person on the internet a liar without knowing anything is definitely something.
Also, kiss me liar's top is one of the most hated tops and is infamous af for being shitty and a cheater. People definitely don't excuse shitty tops. I have yet to see a comment section excusing any shitty tops on this site. I don't get where some of yall get this "tops always gets excused" thing from, honestly. The comments on this site say otherwise. Dunno from where this comment popped up after a year, but it is what it is.