Is there a reason as to why this story ended at 57 chapters ??? It seemed like this was going to go on for really long time and then all of a sudden, everyone was like oh it’s almost done - the last chapter is #57.
There might be a conspiracy behind this (￣∇￣") LOL HAHAHAHAHA
omfg looool
*whispers* Never trust no one...
wait what? (≧∀≦)
(●'◡'●)ﾉ
One of these things is not like the others (⊙…⊙ )
Yandere-chan~
I LAUGHED WAY TOO HARD AT THIS COMMENT (⌒▽⌒)
slut shaming irks my soul. the A/B/O concept is a systematic institution of prejudice + discrimination w/ marginalized vs privileged ppl. there's so many dimensions of this irl that i thought ppl would find it really easy to empathize, but the apathy is scary. the uke is amazing at what he does. but he'd never be where he is now on his pure skill/talent/intellect alone. he's looked down on cuz he is an omega. if he hadn’t slept around, he’d have been tossed aside for ppl less qualified just cuz they’re alphas. he uses the discrimination he faces to allow him to do his job. ppl need to be more concerned about the prejudice he faces more than the fact that he’s using it for his benefit. hello priorities. he may have used his body to get to the top, but what allows him to stay there is his brains. also body autonomy. your body = your rules applies to everyone. how can you use sex as an indication of morality? a less sexually active lifestyle doesn’t make you a better person than anyone else. like lol you wish. you don't have to like him (the uke), or agree with his decisions, but if you can't understand it then we didn't read the same story.
Bless your soul, honey.
Nailed every freaking point.
obviously this not a irl situation. but what ppl don't understand is that you don't owe anyone forgiveness, and that it's not your job to have closure with everyone and fix everything. and honestly i don't understand why anyone would be confused or upset with Min Gyeom. Haven't y'all been reading the same story as me?????????????????????? That boy has been through hell and back. and that SOB did him wrong.
true that
His pride is literally all he has left. When they were kids, neither of them had money, power, or influence. Now Taemin has, well, nothing. On top of all his own problems, he lost his own body! Now Woojin is stronger than him and more confident and just generally has the upper hand in life. Admitting he's Taemin isn't about confirming the truth, Woojin already knows he's Taemin, and Taemin knows that. It's about being vulnerable and acknowledging their past and letting go of his pride. And Taemin is also so bitter and angry and hurt and betrayed that Woojin left him when they were kids. And the guy Woojin became isn't going to make it easy for him.
great analysis (╬￣皿￣)凸 (is that even a thumbs up or middle finger?)
also I've noticed your name is from kaichou wa maid sama and I feel really nostalgic rn
haha I think it's the middle finger :-P
LMFAOOOO thanks. (think it's a thumbs up)
yep yep! that manga/anime will forever be close to my heart ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~
*********i think it's not a thumbs up, i think it's a middle finger
and not in the fun way. When will Taichi ever grow up and take this relationship seriously? He never thinks through his actions. Don't even get me started on the rape. Cut that teary face shit out (i'm talking about the key scene) I hate how manipulative he is. If Nao wants nothing to do with him, Taichi wants to be friends. When Nao wants to be friends, he wants them to date. When Nao decides to give in to their feelings and attraction to each other he backs off. When Nao wants a clean break or no break, he wants some half assed on his terms in the middle non-relationship. How can he pick and choose when to ignore Nao's feelings? If Nao wants to be brave about their relationship and face the wrath of their homophobic society; he should let him. If he's not brave enough than he should let him go. When they were trying to be only friends, and he knew it was mutual he didn't let Nao deny his feelings for him. But now that he's scared he think it's okay to ignore that Nao loves him? Sure, Taichi think he's doing this for his own good. But he's never been truly altruistic. He's too selfish and always has been.
You said it so perfectly, I couldn't agree more!
Yeah.. ╥﹏╥
Ikr...I'm so vexed by his current half-assed behavior...
. . . loves Azusa or not. But does Azusa love Karino? IMO, I don't think he does. He definitely seemed to have had a real relationship with him before Karino's betrayal (on his part at least). But I don't think he was romantically interested in him then, and I don't think he is now (yet?) From what I see, he needs Karino. But does he want him? He's very very dependent on him and he always was, it's just taken a different form. Discuss.
I agree with you. They do have some sort of relationship and both Karino and Azusa do find the other attractive but... They are not in love. If their relationship progresses there is a possibility of love being formed but right now they just like each other. Karino definately likes Azusa. Azusa likes and hates Karino.
Their relationship isn't developed enough for it to be called love.
he does prob just not love yet
I don't think any of the characters in Caste Heaven understand love. I think Azusa has feelings for Karino and focuses on Karino over other people, but that could be dependence as you say.
That's what I think too.
Why do u say that? What makes you think so ?
I don't think any of them do either, but tbh I wouldn't say that I understand love myself. I don't think of it as him focusing on Karino. I see it as him being unable to rely on anyone else. Karino, makes it so that he can't depend on anyone else. And rn no one else has the power to be dependable for Azusa. The way I see it, is that Azusa has no other options, but before (when he was King) he felt that he had other options and had chosen the best one (Karino). But now he has no other options, or rather the other options are shittier and he has chosen the least shitty option (Karino). Again, Karino has a lot of the control in the situation, he always did. Azusa just didn't see how much imo.
Tbh, I wouldn't use the word like. imo crush = like, and rn I think there's (a lot) of lust (only/mostly) . Rn their relationship is very complicated cuz it used to be something else and it has suddenly morphed into something different. It's a power play. There's someone in charge and there's someone submitting. IMO, it's like a master/slave relationship. Yk since they're King and Target.
Karino could be monopolizing Azusa so that Azusa only looks at him. Because before although Azusa had a different relationship with Karino compared to the other kids, Azusa still only saw Karino as somebody to use. He tried to use Karino to get the king card ( he even said 'then let me use you all I want'). I have a feeling that it really pissed Karino off when Azusa treated him like he treats the rest of their classmates. Then again, Karino keeps a distance as well since he doesn't let Azusa into his house. So maybe his intention was to monopolize Azusa at first but now it's weird. They are both stuck in this sex/ lust filled relationship with no development. And yes Azusa really did start having feelings for Karino after Karino kissed him when he was the most vulnerable but Karino ruined it by distancing himself. Idk what's happening tbh. I don't think the boys really know what's going on between them either ahaha.
But Karino is the biggest actor in the world. He let Azusa treat him like that, even though he didn't have to. He let Azusa feel like he was the true king and had all the power. He's really a sadist on the inside. It was all fake. He wasn't really Azusa's slave before since he was pretending the whole time. Azusa didn't only think of Karino as a slave, he was genuinely upset by his betrayal and hurt by it. I don't think Azusa likes him now. He has no other options but to depend on him. I see it as submission and not love. Cuz he's picking the least shitty option. And the sex is great.
I've just pointed out that Azusa reacts only on Karino and no one else (in my topic), he didn't even like the girls that much, if you remember (either the breasts were too small or the moans too fake). If Azusa did't like having sex with Karino, he wouldn't come for and demand it (I will remind those scenes in my next #Karino/Azusa). Sex is very important part of love for sexually healthy people and they're both young and full of desire. Apart from that they are both strong and smart (one a little more than the other, but still), they're both hot, but lonely. Whether you call it love or passion, or else - depends on what you conseder to be "love". But there are different kinds of love anyways and Ogawa likes to show the non-cliche ones to begin with.
I interpreted the acting as a kind of flirting ahaha. And Yea ur right. Azusa is picking the least shitty option. He's submitting for now whilst planning his revenge on Karino because he's hurt.
Karino certainly took options away from Azusa but Azusa could have responded by not taking Karino homework or beig happy when Karino didn't want to see him. Azusa responded by resolving to make Karino bow to him (which he hadn't been trying before) and by trying to make sure Karino doesn't just move on after high school. When Azusa had his option taken, he could have shut down and stopped engaging with Karino--maybe focus on his studies or try to switch schools. But what Azusa wants isn't to be free from Karino--it's to make sure Karino isn't ever free from him.
The word love imo =/= lust. They're both physically attracted to each other. The sex is great. But Azusa has enjoyed sex before Karino. Azusa loves sex and feeling good. I've never denied that. Sure. he's not straight. But that doesn't mean he loves Karino either. Btw health and youth don't always have to relate to sex. You can have great romantic relationships without sex. It depends on whether or not that's important to the person or not. And sure maybe sex is important in relationships for Karino and Azusa. But the way i see it that's all there is.
First of all, sorry for pressing the thumbs down, I meant to hit reply. I think you're forgetting what Azusa is like. He's a strong character. He considers himself above the game, he wants to be independent and rely on no one but himself. But he can't. I think u forgot what's happening. But Karino said that if he didn't become his own personal fucktoy, he'd let all the other boys fuck him. He was going to get gang raped. And he was once, for Karino to prove his point. When Atsumu was kind to him, Karino made Atsumu fuck Azusa. You don't understand what it means to have no options. He's not a coward. He's so stupidly brave that he wants to fight Karino head on. He wants revenge. He was raped, and is raped over and over again. He's abused and mistreated and treated like shit. He wants to be respected again. And he was betrayed. His own personality wants him to fight and not back down. That's just how he is. He's not gonna run away from his problems. He's a natural fighter. But it's hard when he has literally no choice but to rely on the same person who put him in this situation.
LOOOL flirting. I can see why'd you say that. His natural instincts is to fight. But he has to wait cuz he's literally on his own, and has no one to rely on except the same person who got him into this shitty situation.
But Azusa has enjoyed sex before Karino*---------------
Not really, like I've just mentioned he was always annoyed and unsatisfied with those girls. Dudes he didn't even let close to him.
*But that doesn't mean he loves Karino either. And sure maybe sex is important in relationships for Karino and Azusa. But the way i see it that's all there is*------
As I said, no matter what you call it, Karino is the only one who gets special treatment from Azusa. Besides, if Karino will stop pushing him away and hurting his pride, Azusa might become more open about his feelings.
*Btw health and youth don't always have to relate to sex. You can have great romantic relationships without sex*----------
By youth I didn't mean 12year olds and I said sexually healthy people.
- Yes, he has. We see him get annoyed with one gf's boobs. But his character is introduced as an experienced good looking player. He's nowhere near as good of an actor as Karino, so his talk about it isn't just talk. He clearly likes sex and getting off and has many times before Karino.
- He didn't want to have sex with Karino either. He didn't want to be his fucktoy. He'd just picked having Karino fuck him over all the boys in their class.This relates to my next point.
- Azusa started to like the sex. But he's always liked sex. He never knew he could like anal sex or sex with a guy. He's never checked out any guys including Karino. He never considered it on his own. It's only after he's raped repeatedly does his body start to like it/get used to it.
- He's generally nicer to Atsumu now. but i don't call that anything. Do you?
- I think if Karino was more honest and real towards to him Azusa would actually start to fall for him.
Oh, I don't think Azusa is a coward. I even agree he wants revenge. But I think as part of his revenge, he wants to foce Karino to acknowledge him and not leave him behind.
PS Thanks for telling me about the annoying--I've done a thumbs down by mistake once too. I have to admit I thought, "Damn, I managed to offend somebody else...out of all I've been writing lately, why is that the comment that people don't like?" (⊙…⊙ )
I'm glad u don't think he's a coward, he's one of my fav characters. I definitely think he wants Karino's respect. I agree that he wants his acknowledgment. He wants him to think of him highly. The way he thought he did before, but it turned out to be acting. He doesn't want to be looked down on.
P.S one of the thumbs down on my original discussion post is my own mistake! talk about embarrassing :(
I'm glad you don't think he's a coward. He's one of my fav characters. And i agree with him wanting Karino's acknowledgement. I think he wants his respect and for him to think highly of him.
P.S np I've done it a couple of times :( , I even did it to myself on this post -_-
Can you point out the exact scenes on which you base your opinion, because it looks to me like you haven't even read the book.
If I do so, will you do the same? I'll refer back to the original topic of my discussion: does Azusa love Karino or not. I don't think he does (yet). If you think so, that's great. But I don't. And discussing this with you isn't going to change my opinion. I'm just curious as to what other ppl think and why. Clearly, we're interpreting things very differently. I'm not sure how u meant it, but your statement sounds rude and very ignorant and presumptuous. Please keep in my mind that this story and the characters are fictional, but I the person behind this discussion is a real person.
Yes, I will, so go ahead! (Not to mention that is what I'm doing in my #Karino/Azusa). And nice try to change the subject. As for beeing rude and ignorant - it's hylariosus coming from you, heh.
- It's great that you'll do that. Have fun discussing that with other ppl.
- I referred back to MY original topic of discussion cuz everything else I discussed relates to MY original topic. I wanted to discuss the topic I chose to write on MY post. If I choose to go back to it, when I'm sidelined, then it's my right to do so.
- I don't understand what you find so hilarious. I genuinely never meant to hurt you or say anything to offend you. I am really sorry if anything I said came out sounding rude.
- But for whatever reason, you were purposely rude to me. And that's not fair. I don't deserve to be treated like that by anyone. Let alone a random stranger on the internet.
- Although it was interesting for a while, I no longer wish to discuss the manga or any of the characters with you. I've changed my mind.
This is my discussion post. I know where I stand. I just wanted to stick to the topic I choose. And what a shocker that u just choose to insult me further instead of apologizing for ur rude behaviour.
DISCLAIMER: I chose a topic I wanted to talk about. I firmly stated my own opinion on it. IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT ELSE SOMETHING GET OFF MY POST. IT'S MY POST & MY TOPIC. This is NOT ur post. DON'T hijack it. I made MY opinion on what I read/understood/interpreted. If u disagree; cool. If you want to try to change my mind; leave.
well said!
Aren't u the bloke that got told off in another thread too?
13. y. old or what?
Hmm interesting topic. While I think it might be possible I don't necessarily think he's in love at the moment with karino.
Azusa seems to be if anything a complicated character. He, like many of the other characters, has a past that we don't know fully about except that it seems as if it's just been him and his mom his entire life. Azusa has almost no friends to possibly none at all since even if you take into account the chapter where Atsumu and Azusa are on the roof together and then with mill scene later on that followed from there Azusa seems to not be used to close relationships with others. Without even basic relationships like that I would find it hard for Azusa to figure out what it really means to like someone enough to be a significant other.
Yes Azusa seems to be well acquainted with sexual intercourse. However we don't know if he actually felt anything for those girls. For him it seems like a dominance thing to him. He wants to stay in control because at all times especially in relationships and to be controlled or looked down upon. Which may or may not have to do with his childhood where his mother seemed to be treated poorly all the time and Azusa was clearly not pleased witth that kind of life. Always not wanting to be the "scum at the bottom". In his mind Azusa is the "king" at all times. He is in control or at least tries to be.
Karino screws this up for him, not only did Karino betray him, rape him, make him pretty much get gang raped, and fuck up what might have been Azusa's first real friendship (as in possible seeing Atsumu as close to an equal as Azusa will get) he continues to try to demean Azusa whenever he can. And Karino seems to have had this planned for over a year being a great actor.
I think that when Azusa felt at his lowest we've seen him so far Karino was "nice" to him and Azusa might have felt comfort from that despite what Karino did afterward. When Karino refused to seem Azusa for when the homework was dropped off I think Azusa finally snapped back to realizing that he was off of his goal. So he really wasn't "liking" Karino versus liking the fact that it felt like Azusa had a safe haven in life, a "Corner in the world where he could be in", as in he felt special.
Azusa seems to have more of a physical and intellectual power struggle with Karino. And seems to dislike that he is becoming the toy that Karino wants. Someone who wants sex from Karino and someone who won't easily break.
Azusa may have a form of attraction to Karino that we haven't seen but I don't think there is any romance at the moment. If there is any then it is hidden deep within Azusa's emotions.
I think we need to find out more before we can make more conclusions
First of all, thank you so much for replying like this. When I posted my topic I was looking for someone like you. Someone who realizes how complex the characters and the relationships dynamics are in the story and that's not so simple or black and white. I really wanted to go back and forth with someone and talk about this topic in depth. And then u showed up. I was so excited when I read ur reply, I could kiss you LOL
anyways, I 100% agree with what you're saying. You're a lot better at saying it ,then I am. Azusa, is obviously not all he seems at first. There's so many layers to him. His need to be hyper-independent and his trust issues, must leave him feeling so so lonely. I think that temporarily he did find some solace in Karino. But that's not what he wants in the long run.
That's short term peace/consolation. He's such a lost boy and wants to find his place in the world. But all he has known his whole life is that the only way to not hit rock bottom or be last (a.k.a to be/live like his mom) is to be on top. And he thought he was. The security and safety and comfort of that was short lived cuz of Karino. I think the most damaging part was realizing how powerless he really was. Cuz Karino is not the just best actor of all life time – he’s also patient as hell.
And Azusa has deeply rooted insecurity issues and that’s when Karino came in. His timing couldn’t have been any better. Azusa is a natural born fighter in this dog eat dog world. But it’s so so hard to have fight for his #1 spot all the time. Especially when it’s just him on his own and against so many other ppl. (Karino and all the ppl in their class)
Azusa and Karino have an interesting and complex dynamic that I would love to see grow and get explored further. There are intriguing power and sex dynamics that are now so infused together it’s hard to differentiate them. I don’t think Azusa loves Karino yet, cuz honestly the boy doesn’t give his heart away that easily. Someone who’s so deeply insecure and untrusting isn’t going to fall in love with someone just cuz they can play his body so well. It’s gonna take a hella of a lot more.
Azusa isn’t looking for a temporary fix. If anything, he’s looking for someone like him, an equal. Someone he can respect and trust. Not just depend on, but someone who can depend on him too. Someone who can take over the world with him. And my guess is that Karino could be that guy. And they’re gonna rule as Kings together. Yk once they both open up and become honest with other and all that good stuff. But it’s fun waiting for it to happen cuz they’re both so intriguing.
Hehe you're very welcome it's kind of hard to find people who do look for the good and the bad in the characters. Since this really isn't a black and white morality type story. If anything it points out a lot of grey areas of life and these characters as well. How easy it is to get power high at the top or how crushing it is when you fall to the bottom.
Even for the other characters love is a complicated topic. To dominate or be dominated. To be depended upon or be completely codependent. these two seem to be two of the top dynamics that appear in the series in terms of stronger "relationships" with each "pair".
Azusa is definitely a fighter and a lone wolf. Where as Karino would be a leader of a pack. Karino defiantly knows how to pull puppet strings but Azusa likes to not play to Karino's wishes so Karino sees him as his entertainment. And uses all the tools at his disposal to make his life more entertaining and Azusa's more frustrating.
I also agree Azusa isn't looking for a temporary fix, he really never was. He pretty much states his goal in the beginning with how the tone is when he talks about his mother. He wants to be on top. That's always been his long term goal. Heck he even did things such as getting first place in track events for school sport days and although he wasn't number one he made the top ten list in his grade as a first year. Which in itself is very impressive. I want to know more and more about his character and where things go from there, as well as Karino's character and feelings since we never have seen his side of the story yet only glimpses from other people's perspectives.
HEy you can reply to me here. I just made an account since it would be easier to reply to the thread this way
Heyyyyyy. This does make it easier haha. I'm just glad you didn't bash me for not thinking they're in love rn. idk if you've gone through the thread but it seems like my opinion is unpopular. Oh wells. I do ship them. I ship all the pairings. But they're the only ones who aren't together yet.
and yes omg. Dependency and power struggles are reoccurring themes not just in the pairings but also in manga in general. The whole game, their whole school, and everyone in it are controlled by this need to know your own place. Many of the ppl are terrified and insecure and the game is a way for them to know where they stand and to have a position where they feel safe and comfortable.
I love Azusa, he's my fav character. And I really wanna know Karino better. We get hints and glimpses but we don't really anything "real" or "substantial". There's a lot of guessing with him. And I am really curious about him.
I agree. We get a panel or two here and there that hint at Karino's POV, but we need to know more.
@Misaki Usui I have noticed it actually. And I do indeed ship a lot of the character pairs together anyway but I do agree with you a the moment there is no kind of love sort of bond between Azusa and Karino. Or at least from Azusa's perspective and what little we see of Karino's as well and from other characters in series.
I actually decided to post to this thread because it seemed that people were completely missing the point of your comment. An unpopular opinion doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad opinon but honestly again this is a twisted manga anyone who thinks love is going to be happy and fluffy in this is sadly mistaken.
We even see that from some of the side characters as well as with Senzaki and Tatsumi, whom at first look like in their own weird way a very fluffy love type couple, but in reality Senzaki is a full blown yandere who wants Tatsumi all to himself and Tatsumi is in this limbo of doing things that make his family safe and the things that him feel alive, and full of adrenaline or satisfy his own form of sexual masochism (I'm just guessing on this last one as I do not understand if he likes pain or just when senzaki inflicts some sort of pain on him)
Heck for a while even Kusukabe and Kuze's relationship seemed on the surface as more "light hearted" but that eventually turned very dark as well. Atsumu's own want of monopolizing Kuze just as Kuze wants to monopolize Atsumu because of them being drawn toward each other is anything but a fluffier type relationship when it comes down to their shifting mood changes especially with this game going on in addition to being hormonal teenagers who are trying to figure out life.
I can go on but it's almost 2:30 am and I should head to bed.
（￣へ￣）night~
LOOL I hope you got some sleep. Thanks for understanding the point of my topic. None of the pairings in this manga, none of the current ones, or any future ones we might see are going to have a very pure and innocent cute/fluffy normal relationship. That's not the kind of romantic relationships we're going to see in this manga, and that's fine as hell by me. It's interesting to explore romantic relationships of this variety in fiction, in this way.
The only lighter/more normal relationship is the one b/w that slacker and the otaku kid. At least in comparison to the others. And regardless of whether ppl agree with me or not, the other pairings are in fact dating rn. Despite the themes of dominance and dependency explored in all the relationships; they're canon already and they're official. Azusa and Karino aren't dating rn.
but i sure as hell ship them. They're my fav pair. I'm waiting for them to get together officially. And yes omg the other pairs seemed almost cute at first and then turned not so innocent so quick lmao. After the latest update about Senzaki/Tatsumi I even posted a comment saying how they went from cute to not so cute real quick. Cuz like damn. Senzaki is not gonna be pleased that he’s #2.
But that’s what’s so great about this manga and the fictional world. It’s so interesting and fun.
oh about Tatsumi’s masochism. I can’t tell if it’s Senzaki specifically either, but he was attracted to Senzaki and picked him himself (yk when he was saying he seduced him and stuff) I can’t imagine him letting anyone else do that to him. He does love Senzaki, at least for what love seems to mean in this manga. But I think he prefers being the bottom/uke/submissive one/masochist at the same time.
who knows? But isn’t that why we’re here lmao.
Taichi never fails to aggravate my soul. It's so so understandable that he has issues that he needs to overcome . . . but it's so hard to watch him keep breaking Naoto's heart over and over again. I feel as though Naoto has done EVERYTHING he can to keep Taichi feel safe and happy and content. And I think it's Taichi's turn. I'd like to see him reciprocate a little. He has so many needs, demands, and expectations. But he doesn't seem to do much in return. He says so many things but his actions contradict them. Poor Naoto. That boy is so so loyal and never gives up on his flaky ass.
Right fuckin' true!
This is the third time Taichi's hurt Naoto. If there's a fourth time, I'm storming the mangaka's place.
These idiots (╯°Д °)╯╧╧
misunderstanding tag sighh baka!!! ┻━┻ ︵ヽ(`Д´)ﾉ︵ ┻━┻
So you've never had a misunderstanding in your life? Well aren't YOU a special snowflake?
A bit triggered from such a silly comment?
Calm down man (づ￣ ³￣)づ