de de's Topics (106)

I think all sexual things experienced as a child becomes a trauma, because they’re not ready for that type of relationship.

The prevalence of this “trope”(ew) is because of the prevalence of the “shota x onee-san” genre in h3ntai and other anime. It’s also because sexual assault on boys by women are often seen as “oh the boy is so lucky” type of scenario in the real world(which is absolutely wrong)

There’s actually a manga called “sensitive boy” that tackles the issues of being sexually assaulted as a boy by an older women and the stigma it can carry as well as the trauma the victim feels.

Yeah, the problem with these stories is that they are mostly written/read by those who have not experienced sexual trauma when they were young. With the stigma and lack of education about this topic in Japan, authors/readers can confuse fantasy with reality. That's why there is still demand for these sort of stories, as well as people who create them.

We also need to take into account the difference in values the japanese hold regarding relationships. A surprising amount of japanese don't view going to strip clubs as cheating on their spouse. Thus we can't disregard the fact that they might have a different view/standard of pdfilia than us.

Fictional stories like these often show more about the society it was created in, rather than reality.

Ahh. That's just crazy and sad to think about

I don’t think it has anything to do with Japan’s views on pdfs. More like, the general view on it in the anime community. Like in my previous reply, I think it comes from the prominent “trope” of the “onee-san x shota” pairing. Just like with lolicon stuff, it’s a niche that is prevalent in anime, but not loved by the entire Japanese population,

Again, even outside of Japan, there are a lot of cases where an older woman preying on a young boy isn’t seen as bad as if an older man was preying on a young girl. There’s the stigma that a man can’t be sexually assaulted, and when a young boy is assaulted by an older woman, they see it as “they got lucky.” This is prevalent in many cultures, and it’s just another fucked up thing about our society as a whole.

Yes I totally understand where you are coming from, I merely just wanted to add on why these stories might not represent real female pdfiles accurately, as well as why I think this trope is so prevalent in japanese media. In the end, japanese authors (and other authors alike) rarely care about the opinions of their international readers, and there is definitely a lack of education/people speaking out about the stigma you've mentioned in Japan. Some japanese might not even recognize this behavior as pdfilia, and everything leads to the lack of backlash unlike what we see in this comment section, and thus the unfortunate large demand for these types of onee-san x shota pairings even in simple day to day interactions between characters.

While this "lucky" stigma is recognized in many cultures, the educated will know that this stays in the realm of fantasy and porn, which is why it is a stigma. But with the large amount of manga with this trope, one must question whether if it is even a stigma in Japan, or if it's actually ignorance at play.

I also wanted to limit my scope of analysis to Japan, though really this situation can apply to anywhere. But in the end, it was a japanese author who wrote this story, a japanese illustrator who drew the scenes, a japanese editor/publisher who approved of the story to be released, and was made to generate profit from a japanese audience. Which says a lot about the japanese society as a whole, much more than it could about other countries.

My point was that the data you use for your theory is kind of skewed and biased. You’re using data from anime and manga. That’s only a part of Japan, and not the actually broader scope of Japanese culture. That’s why I don’t think you should be drawing conclusions based off what you see from anime and manga.

Of course, I haven’t done the research about actual Japanese culture, so I only commented on the anime and manga community, not Japan as a whole. From your original comment, you seemed to draw your conclusion from only one area(anime and manga) and a cultural difference that didn’t relate to the subject at hand.

This is what starts the spread of misinformation, even if you don’t mean to.

Again, anime and manga isn’t the only part of Japanese culture and the people deep into it shouldn’t be the way you view the country as a whole. Especially since the shotacon and lolicon stuff is a niche in the community, and even then, it’s still pretty controversial among fans.

Basically, drawing a conclusion about a whole country based off one part of that country, isn’t the best idea imo

Honestly I completely understand where you are coming from, but my "assumptions" were kinda also based on some knowledge of Japan, pardon me for not clarifying.

For example, unlike many other developed countries, Japan has not criminalized fictional child pornography if it does not involve real children despite international criticism. And guess when they criminalized possession of child pornography? Only in 2014! Sure they couldn't make cp but if they had it (which is just as bad) there were no legal repercussions. Japan is apparently one of the last countries to instill these laws, and according to an article, apparently the japanese were given an entire year to get rid of the CP before they could be persecuted

The existence and even popularity of "junior idol" culture (featuring real children in suggestive poses) exposes more legal grey areas in child sexualization, showing this is a problem in not just the anime sphere, but the culture of Japan as a whole.

I think we all know how prevalent molesting is on trains in japan. In the early 2000s, japanese women were actually given "anti-molestation handbands" which basically has "please do not grope me" or something along those lines written on it. Women were actively encouraged by officials to wear them to prevent groping, and it obviously did jack shit. Even now, their solution to this molestation problem is women-only carriers, which is admittedly an efficient solution, but ultimately shows the japanese mindset of victim blaming and how the victim should take care of themselves instead of catching the perpetrator.

And let's not talk about without the g. There is a wikipedia page about it regarding how even women get victim blamed and discouraged, even shamed to report rape crimes. There are even accounts of them getting full on assaulted on public transport!! And if it is this difficult for women to speak up about rape, imagine what men have to face to not be gaslit and ignored by society.

Overall, Japan is quite notorious for their outdated laws and cultural avoidance on the topic of sexual abuse. Of course places like Africa, India or some SEA countries might have it worse, but they aren't consistently top 10 in the world for math and science (in the PISA rankings) either. There has definitely been an improvement with the #Me Too movement and more speaking up about sexual abuse, but it leaves much to be desired especially regarding legal loopholes and widespread shaming culture present in Japan.

Also, just a small point but I think "data from anime and manga" can definitely show a lot about Japan. It is by no means only a "niche" part of Japan.

It is a multibillion dollar industry, generating 20 billion dollars annually, from being in TV shows and films to merchandise, video games, and live events. They are the equivalent of kpop to Koreans, or pop is to westerns. Sure, the locals might not like it, but it is a part of their national pride, with the global influence and recognition it has brought to Japan.

In fact, manga is one of Japan’s most read forms of literature, with publications regularly occupying the top ranks in terms of book sales. Anime, being often adapted from manga, hold a similar power and place in japan.

The themes and narratives explored in anime often reflect the societal values, traditions, and even struggles that are central to Japanese life. Thus, anime and manga don’t just represent a "niche", and I believe they can be a mirror of Japan itself.

I do acknowledge I might be biased, since I believe these books are a physical manifestation of the human mind, which in turn can reflect upon the society the author grew up in, as well as the values of that society. Every word and phrase has been curated carefully by the author, and if they still chose to include borderline pdfilic things in their writing, it reflects that not only do they think it is right, they feel that it would even resonate with their community...

Actually I realised you said shotacon was a niche part of the manga culture, not anime being niche, mb. I guess it doesn't take away from my point of anime and manga being a large part of japanese culture tho.

Honestly it's sad coz even if majority of Japan doesn't agree with shotacon, there isn't much backlash or action taken to stop such mangas being produced. Just like how neglect is abuse, purposeful ignorance is just as bad and can damage just as much. But well, I hope that more people would speak up and more societies, not just Japan, start being more proactive in tackling such issues. (๑•ㅂ•)و✧

Yeah I just had problems with your original reply cause you only brought out an example that didn’t relate to the topic at hand to talk about Japan’s views on pdfs. Japan and a lot of Asian countries definitely have some really bad views on grape and stuff, like the amount of true crime stories I’ve heard from south Korea is enough for me to have to take a breather lol.

I was just trying to promote not jumping to conclusions based off skewed evidence and unrelated information(since your intimate judgment based off what you mentioned only covered how they view relationships, not pdfs) however, your later statement does back up your original claim much better and I really appreciated that.

Again, this isn’t meant to be an attack, sorry. I just wanted to clarify whether you drew your conclusion(which is very valid) based off only anime and manga or from other aspects fo Japanese culture.

Also, anime and manga definitely is pretty big in Japan, but I also do know that for a while, if you liked anime in Japan, you would also be labeled as weird(and the term otaku wasn’t a good label to have there.) that’s why I was apprehensive to use just anime and manga as a reference to how Japan reacts to stuff.

(This is sort of a weird way to relate this, but a lot of (p)orn features rape and incest, but it’s widely viewed as a not good thing(hopefully anyway), even if it’s prevalent in that area. Same thing with how there’s a lot of violence in video games, but that doesn’t mean MOST people think shooting down a mall would be a good idea. It’s a part that’s prevalent in certain medias, yet it doesn’t explain a whole culture.)

(What I just mentioned above doesn’t include what you’ve stated, as you’ve definitely stated some real life examples that prove the point better(like with junior idols and the cp laws), but I just wanted to give another perspective on media standards vs societal standards)

When I mentioned incest, I meant like the stepbro shit I see in memes a lot.



I could be totally wrong though, since I don’t watch pron unless I’m reading bl lol.

Ey no worries! Honestly completely understand where your intentions are, thanks for clarifying!

Honestly Japan is such an interesting country, like there are some aspects of Japan that are very conservative like gender roles and expectations, yet other parts that are unexpectedly liberal (existence of uncensored homosexuality in media far before America, and people who think spouses going to strip clubs are ok). It feels almost contradictory, if we compare with places like America (almost consistently liberal, individual centric) or places like Muslim countries (very very strict and conservative).

I'm happy that we got to discuss about Japan under this thread, coz I do like Japan as a country. Even if they are less progressive in some areas of the law, I do believe that they have also developed a culture that doesn't require them to be forced by law to do the right thing, like their litter-free streets, or how elementary students can go to school without parental supervision at all, relying on passersby to take care of them.

I keep going on tangents here and there haha, anyways it was nice talking with you!

Yeah it was nice talking to you too!!

The romance is also nice. I like that she is only interested in one guy, all the way.