Natchin's Topics (15)

I disagree with this. Jiwon has been 100% such an asshole to DG. if you are hesitant to commit and want a fling then find someone who's looking for the same thing as you. he knew DG had a thing for him but treated him like a sex toy, of course this was inevitable. having your heart broken doesn't give you the excuse to be a shit human being to the next person you have a relationship with.

I'm sorry but what part of this comment is in actual disagreement with the OP? What part of what you said is unrealistic? I mean have you met real humans out here in the real world? Being an asshole that makes excuses for your behavior is like basic human. We start doing that as toddlers.

You're not saying it doesn't happen, you're saying it's wrong. Everyone knows that already. The point is that people treating others badly to get what they want IS realistic and frighteningly common because people are first and foremost self-centered. They have to learn how to care for others and even when they do, they still fall short some of the time.

Unless you're a narcissist or have psychopathic tendencies, you may also feel guilt and messy feelings when you do those wrong things to someone for the sake of your own desires. Jiwon treated DG like a sex toy because he needed to devalue him in order to protect himself from catching feelings. He laid all of that weight on DG, but he was just as vulnerable and triggered by the relationship. And he didn't make excuses to DG, he never told him his baggage. If anything he tried to keep it all hidden and got angry when DG hit too close to what a more manipulative person might have used as an excuse to DG's face. Chanwoo says as much when he tells DG that people who hate love have usually been hurt. Jiwon showed that hurt only to us, the reader. To DG he never let on, and so his treatment of him was all over the place. He'd probably have been better off if he had made excuses because at least then Jiwon would have been facing some form of his pain instead of pretending it wasn't reinforcing his decisions.

The whole conceit of the story is that Jiwon could have and wanted to find someone he could just use as a sex toy. But none of those options were as appealing to him as DG, and he let his dick (emotions in disguise) do the thinking for him. If that's not realistic to 20 somethings in college trying to be in "control" while navigating the sexual landscape, then what is?

he knew DG was really into BJ Alex but the whole falling in love thing happened later. you’re right, he was looking for a fling but he made it clear since the start. remember that when jinwo realized that maybe DG had developed feelings for him, he asked him straight away and DG said NO. jinwo could’ve just continued ignoring DG’s feelings and keep fucking him but decided to ask him instead because he didn’t want feelings to get involved.

DG deserves better.

Alex still a jerk.

What I disagree with is to cut him some slack, in society people won't "cut you some slack" for being an asshole when you hurt other people it's your part, however human it is to realize your wrongs and right your wrongs. I'm not saying I don't understand Jiwon's behavior and it makes no sense to me, I just don't empathize with him as a human being because I could never see myself justifiably treating someone this way no matter how scarred I am. Everyone has their scars and I certainly hold baggage of my own but to hurt other people knowingly because of it is something I couldn't fathom doing. All I was really saying is not slack cut, Jiwon is an asshole and should learn from this to COMMUNICATE. If this pissed him off, and I've said because DG crossed the line for boundaries etc etc and I know DG accepted asshole Jiwon that' s fine. But Jiwon can have his sad aggressive pity party all alone I'm not going to sit here and commiserate like boo hoo who hurt you it's okay you were the biggest asshole to your sex friend but I get it you're hurting! I would just want Jiwon to give a shred of respect as human to human to DG. In the end his morals and mine don't match, I can't see myself sinking this low as a human being over a broken heart so your whole human's are selfish bla bla bla statement goes over my head. Am I supposed to sympathize with Jiwon for doing something I can't imagine doing as a human being?

I definitely think they are both to blame to what happened and I definitely think DG crossed the line and Jiwon had set boundaries to begin with and DG was in love/denial and got burnt, not really what I'm pissed about for Jiwon, I just think he needs therapy and anger management, he's a real jerk. Idc if you had your heart broken it doesn't justify being a fuck to other people and feeling entitled to be such

The problem then is in your answer. It's a common mistake to be vague so I don't fault you for it, but saying "I disagree with this" and then not stating what "this" is beyond what you wrote put the onus on anyone reading and responding to stumble into your true meaning. Which is that you disagree with "cutting him some slack". Since I don't agree that Jiwon should be cut some slack either, we're in agreement. That isn't an excuse. But then again, I'm not interested in debating morality either. I don't need this story or any other to be emblematic of healthy, sustainable relationships for me to read it, because I'm in it for the journey and not the destination.

Also empathy is the exact opposite of what you're stating. It's not about empathizing only if you agree with the party you're empathizing with. The idea behind empathy is that you can understand why a person does what they do, even if you believe you personally wouldn't do so. You still put yourself in their shoes as mechanism towards enlightenment of the human condition. It's an exercise in dissecting different behaviors so you know what to look out for in others and yourself to do less harm, not the act of condoning what others do.

Sorry, forgot to put that into the first part of my explanation to apologize that I wasn't specific on what I disagree with. It was also super late when I was reading the update and I wrote quickly ready for bed and don't QC my mangago comments to be PC. Sorry for any confusion

On your second paragraph, I understand what you're saying and how my statements on empathy are flawed, and you seem to have a better understanding of morality in broader terms. Perhaps, I should empathize to have a better understanding of human condition. Personally and emotionally I disagree with his behavior and don't condone or cut him slack for any of it

That's the problem though isn't it? That you cannot emphasise with him. People handle relationships differently. You can CLEARLY see this right now between DG and Jiwon. DG is the type of person to cry and lose sleep on it, but Jiwon is the type to just shove it under the carpet until it haunts him. You shouldn't get so mad at a person because of the way that they act, especially because you know they have a reason behind it. Even if personally, you wouldn't do the same, this is why you read books, to put yourself into someone else's life and experience new things.

It's to experience new things and I do agree that is the problem, but I feel it's a blanket statement to have to accept all personalities despite your personal beliefs, and maybe that's part of the struggle, but if you fit that over the spectrum of all personalities, I guess I'm just not the best at empathy because I will will make emotion based opinions about things (I'm sure you'd know if you read all the topics I've ever made), and not accept certain behaviors and have a hard time being completely rational about it. Also not trying to defend myself but explain, I'm an ENFP and very emotion based so rationalizing every single thing on the spectrum is hard for me

No problem and thanks for this. I should clarify that I don't think there's anything wrong with saying "This is wrong and I wouldn't do it". I think that's totally healthy in real life and empathy actually helps with that. It's not license to be a pushover, though it has gotten that rap because manipulative people like to exploit the desire empathetic people have to give them the benefit of the doubt. So I agree because personally and emotionally I wouldn't -- or would try not to -- act the way DG or Alex have. I would try not to put someone on a pedestal and give into demands that hurt me just to be near them. And I would try not to disregard someone's feelings so I could use them for sex. So in a way reading a story about people who do is like eating something bad for you without the calories, you know. Anyway thanks for clarifying and for the kind words. I really appreciate it.

I agree with this whole statement, thanks for eloquently putting what I couldn't in words and correcting my erroneous usage of terms for explanation. My style is to put things out and correct later which can lead to confusion when I'm incorrectly using words. Thanks again and I enjoyed reading your perspective and explanations! I feel bad as your words were kinder than mine, so thank you for being open minded in this discussion. I agree that I would never act the way either have, this has been a tiring emotional read.

You were totally cool, so don't worry! Honestly I worry sometimes that I come off harsh or preachy. I try not to, but I've just kind of decided that if I write with best intentions, usually I get best intentions back, and that's what I saw with your response. Don't be so hard on yourself, this shit is all just practice and communication is full of pitfalls. Even the most eloquent people are misunderstood from time to time. Lol, as for the tiring and emotional read, I guess it's good that it's being doled out in chapters. I'd binge it if I could. ;)

Aw. I could see you going out trying to discuss things and being met with different responses. But yes I did feel your best intention to correct my statement and provide your insight to the situation so I re-evaluated mine and am thankful for the correction as I agree with everything you explained, so I really appreciate it :). I've never been the most eloquent but I do get passionate and get so emotionally worked up when I read some of these works. It is fascinating to see all the different personalities of characters and of the people commenting on the board in response. PS. you would binge it?? I can't relate it drains my energy to feel passionately on some behaviors and characters. Korean manhwa artists really know how to get me emotionally worked up and ticked off haha.

U alive

HA

Or another kill

I was thinking about that too. Sangwoo seems way too unstable right now who knows what he'd do. But i think that'd just be a repeat of the first season and make the second season seem repetitive but who knows ヾ(❀╹◡╹)ﾉ~

I agree there is a chance of monotony but he just seems too addicted to the hunt. Either way this is nerve wracking with him being so sweet.

I knowwww and Bum is so hopeless towards it ╥﹏╥
I hope he finds a trigger or something that makes him want to sock one on Sangwoo for how he's been treating him (๑•ㅂ•)و✧